NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 68. Summer Scouting: Top 5 Interior Defensive Linemen for 2023 NFL Draft

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers continue their summer scouting journey with the interior defensive linemen. The two give you their preseason Top 5 IDL players for the 2023 NFL Draft with background info, PFF stats and film notes for each. Plus talk plenty of other interior defensive linemen in the class who are just outside their Top 5s going into the season.

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all got back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place, every game, every Sunday. And you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical. And also, YouTube TV is great. I got it this year.

It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital only games welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast in this episode we're getting right back to the summer scouting series with the interior defensive lineman I know it wasn't interior defensive line but we saw in last year's NFL draft how defensive line is such a priority and if if you can get after the quarterback, if you can be a dominant presence on the D line, you're going to get paid and you're going to get

drafted high. I know there's one name that everybody can't wait for us to talk about here for interior defensive lineman, but there is a host of other names that I want to bring to the table, not just first round guys, but throughout what we think is going to be the 2023 NFL draft. There's a lot of guys, a lot of different shapes and sizes as we've seen on the defensive line. So there's a lot to discuss. Let's get right to it. I'm Trevor. That's Connor. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers joining you guys on a Thursday edition in the summer,

which means it's time to get back to summer scouting. This episode is all about the interior defensive lineman. If you missed the edge rushing episode where we got first into the defensive line, pop back, you listen to that. That was last Thursday's episode. But now around and out, we'll get to the rest of the big boys, the guys up front. We're getting to some interior defensive linemen as we keep our eyes on the 2023 NFL draft and the 2022 college football season. Connor, how are we feeling going into week two of D-line scouting here for for this little exercise that we have?

How you doing, my friend? Feeling good, man. This is obviously going to be a fun group today. All of them have been, obviously. I think everybody's excited to hear about a certain player in this group, but getting away from that, I have to say, and I know you feel the same way, blown away by the response of the part one

of the expansion episode. Unbelievable response, the interaction, people making their teams. Even if I didn't write back to you or Trevor didn't write back to you, we're reading all of them. We love that you guys are engaged

with the fact that there could be cap compliant, the different rules, the things that you wanted to see that we didn't follow in case we ever do this again to maybe tweak some of the format. But man, it was my favorite show of the summer. And I'm so glad that everyone felt the same way.

So this is, I mean, I thought that this idea was going to be cool, right? I wouldn't have been doing an idea with you if we didn't think it was going to be cool. But you guys have already taken this thing to another level with creating your own teams before we get to next Monday's episode and finalize our own draft. If you guys are listening, you didn't listen to this past Monday's episode, go back and listen to it.

It was genuinely one of the most fun episodes, podcast episodes I've literally ever done. Not just for this podcast, not just during the summer. It was a lot of fun getting to set the stage for the expansion draft. If you guys missed it, if you aren't following the NFL Stock Exchange Twitter account,

you need to do that because if you didn't, then you missed it. If you want to kind of do your own expansion draft before Connor and I do ours, the stipulations that we landed on, since we were kind of all over the place during the episode, like, oh, maybe we'll do this. It's hard. You've used the shit out of them the whole time.

But the rules that we settled on are, we're going to draft one player from every team. So we're not going to fill out the full roster because the more I thought about it, the more I was researching what the Houston Texans did, they only drafted 19 players. It's not like they drafted a full team from the NFL, because if they would have done that,

it actually would have been really unfair. It would have been probably the deepest team in the NFL. So we're only going to have them pick one player from every team in this exercise. It could be offense or defense, but we've got to form a starting 22, and then we've got 10 reserve players. And then the other stipulation

that we have in there, because we wanted to make it a little bit more challenging, a little bit more of a strategy exercise is we've got to stay under 60% of what the league cap is, which is if you take 208.2 million, which is what the league salary cap is right now, 60% of that is 125.22 so if you guys are out there doing your own exercise those 32 players that you draft have to be under 125.2 million cap that's what it's got to be total and that's a lot more than what the houston texans got because the rule for them was they couldn't go over 38 of the salary cap a lot of what the houston texans had to do came in the draft obviously having the first pick in the draft and then a lot of undrafted free agents but we didn't want to do this exercise

and fill most of the team with undrafted free agent guys that you guys don't even know that you don't have an attachment to so i get it it's it's not as realistic it was as it would probably be in real life but this is probably a more fun way for us to do it so those are the official rules that we'll go into with Monday. Yeah, I think the point is, you know, what we love to have it down to an exact science. So from when this day comes, it's like, yeah, we did this already. Like this is what it's going to look like.

Like I think sure in a sense, but also there is an entertainment aspect of this that we want to show which players from a team could be expendable for certain reasons maybe like we went through it like the bills and the chiefs are the two come off top my head they're just too talented they're gonna lose a good player right that might not even be an expensive player they're just gonna lose a good player but then you look at it from a perspective like why wouldn't an expansion team claim jj watt who you know know, or Kenny Galladay, right? Guys that are really expensive, that are hurt a lot at this point in their career,

but could still be the face of a new franchise or can be an impact player if everything went perfectly because that risk of that money doesn't really matter to an expansion team. And the team that's losing them might be like, we didn't protect them because we want to lose that money. So it's just kind of showing, you know, a little look behind the curtain of a lot of different scenarios rather than trying to perfect. This is what the next NFL team would look like today. Yeah, that was it was it was an exercise. It was a lot of fun to do. You guys blew up the YouTube comments about it. And I read every single one of them. It was awesome. You guys are I mean, you're taking this idea to the next level. I love you for it. That's what makes doing this podcast so much fun

is that you guys are sitting there basically involved in a podcast with us. Y'all are co-hosts just like we're co-hosts here in front of the microphone. And so we're going to try to take a lot of the screenshots that you guys have if you drafted your own team. And we're going to try to read them on the show next episode after we draft ours.

So we can see like which ones we liked, which strategies you guys went with, who you picked up, your own team and we're going to try to read them on the show next episode after we draft ours so we can see like which ones we liked what strategies you guys went with who you picked up who are some common players that everybody's picking up all that kinds of stuff it's going to be a lot of fun on next monday's episode when we kind of finalize it but uh we got we got a couple of days until then but right now we got to talk about interior defensive lineman but before we jump in uh i got a little question out there for all the gentlemen you guys try for gold in your life right gold medals gold watches gold everything however i do have to say there is a certain type of man who goes the extra mile walks in the competence of an eagle giggles in the face of danger he is a big hairless winning machine and

when he unzips his pants he sees platinum that right. Manscaped would like to introduce to you their biggest, best ultimate hygiene package, yet the Platinum Package 4.0. Our friends over at Manscaped, they're the leader in below-the-waist grooming. Now you can trust them with the whole shebang. You can join over 4 million men worldwide who trust Manscaped by going to manscaped.com,

using the promo code PFF, and getting 20% off plus free shipping. Manscaped's brand new Platinum Package 4.0 is the biggest, best bundle they have ever given you. Now for a bulk discount on their top products. Get 20% off and free shipping using that promo code PFF or manscaped.com. It's time that you enjoy the finer things in life and get yourself a Platinum Package for your Platinum Package. If you guys have been listening to uh the summer scouting you know how it goes connor and i are going to give our top fives here

pre-season top fives for the interior defensive linemen we'll start at number five we'll go all the way down to number one and then we'll give some shout out system guys that just missed the list as well so connor i'll let you start as always who you got a number five here for the interior d-line group number five for me was a breakout player from last year and that is colby wooden from auburn oh nice nice that um you know it is an interesting player when you just look at him right away being 65 280 that is not your prototypical interior D-line build all the time, but starting with Colby Wooden here, moved all over the place on the D-line. I think they actually like that hybrid body type with him

because they feel like he has some of the quicks to play, to kick out a little bit, and then some of the power that they could trust him as a shade nose when needed, or a three tech, obviously, but he quickly gets off the ball for his size. Plenty of pop in his always active hands. I think that's the main thing for me here with Wooden is that I just thought he had

very active hands where he was always trying to make something happen on the rush or working against the run. Motor is legit. He even worked through a few triple teams to land effort sacks that I saw that, you know, especially at the college level, I think some people look at that and go, man, it's not really a skill. That's not really translatable. It's not draftable. At some point it is when you're getting a triple team and the quarterback is taking a deep drop. Some guys just stand there and go, man,

I'm taking on three guys. Somebody else has to win, which I get for this guy. He kept working. He kept guy, he kept working. He kept working. He kept moving. He's a little bit dancing bear, kept moving inside, outside. The quarterback would scramble wide. He would have the vision to see that, and he'd go chase him down. So I really like that aspect of his game. I wrote he could probably play at 300 pounds. There's room to put more mass on his frame. I understand why he's not doing that at Auburn right now. I think they like him where his weight is at. I think his body is fine. I understand why he's not doing that at Auburn right now. I think they like him where his weight is at. I think his body is fine.

I think that they like him in that hybrid role. But if an NFL team looks at him and goes, man, we want you to kick in a little bit more and play above 300, or we want you to be a 300-pound three-tech, he has the body to do it. So he wears this giant arm brace. You can't miss him. He's got the bionic arm.

It's like that J.J. Watt arm. But he was a player for me, Trev, that I liked his effort. I liked his versatility. And I thought he put up, he did some damage in the SEC last year. He was very active and very productive, both as a effort rusher and active rusher and as a somewhat responsible run defender. So he was someone to me that I thought was well worthy of this list is not

I haven't seen him getting a lot of hype preseason hype but he was a quiet breakout player for the Tigers last year yeah so I know I know Mike wrote him up I didn't get a chance to get eyes on him for this exercise so I definitely need to especially after what you said there about him being a worker in the trenches and I think that's man it is such a trait it's a trait that is so important is probably just the best way to say it because playing in the trenches has got to suck man i mean i am five foot ten 170 pounds or six five two sixty like i've never in my life at any point been considered that whether you're playing recess football or flag football or whatever nobody's ever looked at me and said hey you play like on the defensive line

or offensive line or anything like that so I've never personally experienced playing in the trenches but it looks brutal you're just getting beat up every single snap and to take that kind of physical punishment and yet for the motor to run hot at all times, I just think is a mental advantage for a lot of these guys that have that ability to just continue to work, continue to have the motor run really hot. So that's definitely something that I love

watching guys like that. So he's definitely a player that I've got to watch. Number five on my list, I got uh gervin dexter the interior defensive lineman from florida incredible frame man six foot five 300 and they've got him listed at 318 pounds i think he probably played closer to 300 when he was i thought the same thing i didn't think he had that kind of weight on film i he's gained weight during the summer and i think they updated his weight profile to that i think i believe he was a lot closer to that round 300 number when he was playing because you see that i think you definitely see that on

film that you go that that that's not a 320 pound guy now he carries his weight really well anyways that's something that i have in the scouting report whether you want to say that he's 300 305 pounds on the tape or whether you want to say like he's 315 it doesn't matter he's carrying it incredibly well he looks like a true athlete playing nose tackle and you just do not see that very often he's got the length at six foot five that's that's very unique for him there five star defensive tackle he was a unanimous five star I believe in recruiting from Lake Wells Florida I read that in high school he led the entire state in sacks when he got 15 sacks in just 10 games of the regular season his senior season also

qualified for the state track and field championships in the discus throw so i made i had to make sure to give that little uh background shout out to him there as well strength and weaknesses with gervin dexter outside of the obvious frame advantages that he have that he has and me saying that he's extremely well built as a player uh the athletic build at a massive size arm length is a huge advantage when engaging at the snap especially in run defense he is able to get his hands up and into offensive linemen hold them at that point from a distance create that separation to where they really can't break that grip they really can't get into his chest while he is continuing to keep his eyes in

the backfield wondering whether i'm shedding to the right i'm shedding to the left whatever it is he just has such an advantage because of that length keeping offensive linemen at bay and unless they're really churning those legs and really pushing him back he often can stand strong in that area and he makes the most out of his length which i really uh like to see. He's got the pass rush ability. As I've said, you note the athleticism to him. It's just not very often you get a player with his length, with his build that's playing as a zero-tech, a one-technique kind of a player that's shading off the center.

And so the athletic ability, the ability to one-gap right in between the center and the guard, that just doesn't come around very often. So all of that is strengths to his profile. Doesn't have a ton of experience or i will say consistency with success right now i think it's come we kind of get into areas to improve the biggest area connor for for me with with dexter and i'm curious i whether he's in your top five or whether you're going to talk about him i wrote him up he i mean he's got to disengage quicker man there's there there's so many that's there are so many reps where i watched a handful of games of him and it's like okay we hike the ball at the snap even if you're not pinning your ears back on a true pass rush rep there are opportunities for

you to throw the defender off which i've seen him do many times. But it's just like the play is happening and it's moving. And it's just he is a second too late when disengaging from the offensive lineman. And you can see it in his head when it clicks. He will push pull you. He will rip you to the side. He will swipe your hands away. He will do a club rip and get right by you. He knows how to get past these interior offensive

linemen but he doesn't do it quick enough it's like he's just a it's like he's a step late when you would want him to disengage and anticipate shed the block get into the backfield go make the play so man i just feel like that's the biggest area for him and he's got to disengage a lot quicker i also have written has to be able to get the hands where they need to be, hit a move, get into the backfield, showing the athletic ability. He just does not do it quickly enough to be an impactful guy. I also said this, and it would make sense that he gained weight. I don't think he plays strong enough for a guy who plays nose tackle. If you want to teach him to be a true one-gap penetrating three-technique player,

okay, move him there. If you are going to keep him at nose, which, look, Florida can do whatever the hell they want. We know these schools aren't exactly in the business of making these guys as the best pros possible. They're trying to create the biggest mismatches they can. Certainly, Grim and Dexter playing in the middle as a nose tackle is a massive disadvantage for how unique he has a build.

But he cannot play nose tackle at the weight that he was last year or the strength profile that he was last year. He'll get blown off the ball every time any kind of duo or double team comes his way. So I thought he was a little bit out of position last year I thought he was a little too timid when it came to disengaging blocks when I watched Dexter it is in no way a lack of ability or gifts from him it's simply I think he's got to play a different position or he's got to be a little bit bigger one of the two something I just have to change

for him moving forward to get the most out of his potential man you nailed it and i'm glad that he's your number five because i was between him and wooden for my number five and i went with the i went with the guy that has a higher floor dexter has a much higher ceiling and he when people say a ball of clay this is kind of the guy they often are talking about this type of player that you can write down things that he's not good at right now and they are very true and i agree with you i wrote that he needs to play with a little more power and just better leverage yeah the leverage that's when he gets lost trev that he's lost in the play, lack of leverage. But it's funny to me. Like, you turn on a game like the Missouri game, and there was one other game where that happens a lot.

Then you watch him at Alabama, where they stick his butt right at Zero Tech. Zero against Alabama, the worst place on earth that anybody listening to this show can be. Right over the head of the center. And he does a really good job he's moving people he's disengaging so and he's a young guy i think he was a true sophomore last year he was and when you factor that in it's really impressive for me a guy that was not you're right he was not playing at 318 last year i would be surprised if he was over 300 pounds last year and they put him at nose and shade nose,

snap after snap after snap in the SEC. That is not easy for a 19-year-old at the time that is still gaining weight and getting stronger. When he sees red, when that light comes on, he makes some big-time plays. He can collapse the pocket with strength. I wrote down the last thing I wrote on him, which is probably the most important.

I said, if he refines his hand usage, he's going to have a big year. If he starts having some active hands like Wooden has, he's got more traits than Wooden to become a player in the SEC. But I agree with you. I don't like their usage of him. I'm guessing for Florida, I mean, you got this guy that's obviously very talented. He is getting bigger, and they're like, hey, we don't have a guy like this to play in the middle of the defense,

so you're up. Where, you know, you go to a school, and it's Florida. Florida recruits well. But if you go to a school that's just swimming in D-line talent, this guy's probably an attacking three-tech that even kicks out, plays four-eye, five-tech sometimes. I would love for him to be an attacking three-tech. So I don't know who Florida's got on the roster,

who maybe I should be more familiar with my alma mater. I'm going to look it up right now to see. Because there's a whole new coaching staff, right? So it's not necessarily the guys who were placing him there before. Let's see if they have any sort of summer depth chart here. Do they? chart here do they uh summer depth chart on our lads has dexter as a defensive tackle and they have a different player at nose tackle desmond watson i don't know who he is but there's just yeah it reminded me a little bit of in a different way but like when Houston would play Logan Hall at Shade Nose and he was 6'6 about 280 for them and the difference is Logan Hall is not playing in the

SEC so he would just run around blow up plays make things happen like for Dexter it's like man he's a sophomore he's 6'5 300 I thought I once again I don't think he was 300 pounds he carries his weight really well but like you said he looked a lot lot closer to 95 than he looked at 318 or whatever they got. Yeah. So a ball of clay, exciting player. I'm glad you had him at number five. He didn't make mine,

but tough, just a tough miss. Number four. Yep. Yeah. Number four for me is Jaqueline Roy from LSU. I believe this is somebody that you watched as well. He is number four for me as well.

So this is all right. Let's let's rock and roll. Six, four, two 97 and man, 285 of those pounds is, is below the waist brother. I mean, this guy's got a squat.

He's got that squatty body that, uh, thick lower half. And he knows how to generate power from it. So it's funny when you see a defensive tackle and you see sub 300 pounds, a lot of people initially react. Well, you got him at,

you got him at two 97. Yeah. Where'd where'd you read that where'd you get 297 do you get it you got sources you got it you got sources on it isn't that is listed no lsu bumped him up to 315 my guy i have i had that somewhere then i was wondering if you had some inside sources that uh that the school website might have been lying about the weight which they do honestly what i probably did was i probably shifted a cell like an idiot and have the have somebody else's way in his spot because i see a 315 right near his cell yeah so either way okay well that makes a lot more sense because this dude is just once again the first thing i wrote down generates power from that thick lower half um he has this calling card trev that i don't

know if you caught on film he hits the swim move in the a gap as much as anybody he loves this class he loves it yes yeah yeah he hits the swim move in the a gap he knows how to get skinny while hitting the swim move so it works a lot it it leaves guys in the dust kind of has that dancing bear where he's nimble on his feet for that lower half weight uh very wide guy i wrote down uh from ultimate he had 31 total pressures in 2021 so this is not just a big ugly down there just containing containing they let him pin his ears back and go um and he really he made the most of it which was really cool to see he really made the most of it he got the chance to attack a little bit and you're not going to get to hear that about

all these guys on my top five in the scheme they played in yeah and he got consistent pass rush with not just winning with power but that swim move and a little bit of finesse in his game. So Roy, for me, is somebody that he looked really good on tape, and he's yet another guy in the SEC where so many of these talented defensive tackles are from. He was more than just a run stuffer. I loved what he can do when they let him shoot that A-gap. Yeah, and I would say that he's more of a pass rusher than he is a run stuffer, right?

I thought so too. And I think that's where his best calling card is. When I look at the strengths and weaknesses that I have on here, because I have him at number four as well, very first thing I wrote is a very impressive first step, burst off the snap. I think that he is, I mean, like he just knows how to fire off the ball. Sometimes you can pop on guys' tape and you know they're going to look,

you know they're just going to be different. You're in for a treat of a watch when it comes to pass rushing and one gapping because you can see how fast they get off the ball. And when you're an interior defensive lineman, I think it's easier to see because you're often going up against bigger, more powerful, slower guys. But he definitely pops in that regard, and he definitely has an advantage. I think the first step is his calling card.

It's his bread and butter. I think his initial pass rush move and contact are swift and strong. The hand swipe, the club, there is go-to's. You mentioned the swim move, you know, when he's swiping the hands and he's bringing the arm over. I mean, that's what he loves to do. He loves to get right up in you, attack one of those shoulders, get across your face, and just overwhelm you

with how fast he can fire out of his stance. Now, the weakness that I have with Roy, and I'll say this, I really wanted to like this dude. Like, I really wanted to have him in my top three because the first step is that impressive. I just didn't think he had a pass rush plan way too often. I thought he was way too reliant on that first step explosiveness to win him reps. And when it did not immediately win him the rep, he didn't really know what to do. The hands would kind of keep moving, but it's just like, it was, it was kind

of like he was working without a plane he just he did not have enough of a plan i don't think last year when he went into it you mentioned you he loves to swim boom i mentioned how he loves to do the the club and he swim over and swipe with the hands like when he would go into it with a good plan it would often work because he can get off the ball so quickly but i felt like there were just too many times where he was like all right I'm just gonna shoot this gap on him go for the shoulder and it's not even like he was going for the shoulder with a club rip rip move or trying to get underneath the arm or something like that he would every now and then but there were a lot of times where I'm like oh man hit the move like you had him there. And instead he just attacks the shoulder. He gets where he wants to be,

but because he wasn't doing what he needed to from a pass rush move perspective, his blocker was able to recover, get in front of him. And then all of a sudden they're in a hand fight and the ball's out of the quarterback's hands. So that was the biggest thing for me is he knows he's fast. And that is, I think his first step is absolutely a gift and one that could be a difference making one at the pro level but he's got to go into it thinking okay

my first step gives me a leg up on the guy who's about to block me but I mean dictate the rush I've got to do more than that I've got to win the very first phase of the rush like you were saying right there but then I've got to do something to finish it I've got to get the very first phase of the rush like you were saying right there but then I've got to do something to finish it I've got to get around him get into the pocket get to the quarterback before those two three seconds are up and he gets the ball out of his hand so that was really the big thing with me and it it was it was unfortunate because I really did I started watching Roy and I'm like oh I'm gonna like this dude and I I, I'm going to have him in my top three for sure. But unfortunately, there were just too many reps that he was,

I don't even want to say losing. He just wasn't winning the way that I needed him to win those or the way that I believe he could. So that's an area that I'd love to see him get better at. I want to see right off the jump. I want to see more of a pass rush plan. And this too, when those moves don't work, what's your counter? What are you doing? Because I thought the lack of counters were even more glaring

than the lack of initial pass rush because he could sometimes hit an initial move. But of those times where he really got locked up, I wouldn't say that he was like giving up on a lot of plays. Like I said, it was just like, it was a lot of hand motion. It was like,

you know, you're just like shadow boxing or like karate fight. And just like the hands are going everywhere. And it wasn't as controlled. It wasn't as precise. It wasn't as charted as it needs to be. So I think that's the big area that I want to see from him moving forward. Quietly.

That'll be one of the most interesting units to watch this year because the draft eligible guys they have uh him they have ali gay went back to school bj ojalary is there so there's a lot of draft eligible talent i believe they have an underclassman that played very very well last year as well yeah uh mason i hate that it's escaping my name it's escaping my brain right now um i'll pull it up in two seconds as i have mason smith mason smith yes mason smith was a guy that had uh four sacks as a younger player last year and did get some rush yeah so insane i mean that's a unit that has a lot of talent and it's going to be fun to watch them work together because like i said three of those guys are expected to be drafted and then

you brought up mason smith who um oh and oh uh nope that was it okay so all right you were about to read like i sorted them in ultimate and had and had them sorted and then all of a sudden the safety got in there and i'm like that guy's not playing oh so you just saw the grade i saw the uh no i saw the the sacks and the quarterback hits this is a db that had like some numbers in that category so i was like what no so okay so that was a classic trevor and connor had the same guy at number four i feel like that happens a lot i will have a clarifier here, and I'm curious if you agree. We're jumping into a totally different water right now. I would agree.

I would agree with that. Yeah. And you know what? It's funny that what you said about Jaqueline Roy, how you turned it on. You're like, I want to love this guy. I thought he would be in the next tier after I watched some of his big production, and I don't think so at all so all

right let's get into it number three uh and maybe this is a surprise because I know people love this player and there's a lot of things that I love too uh Brian Brzee oh you did it you had that you had the stones to do what I didn't do and I mean of course it comes with the old to be fair to Brzee being in this spot and not higher is that he obviously had a season ending injury last year um that cost him you know most of his season where when you look at what he was able to do in terms of uh the opportunity to get production you know he's somebody that just didn't have the same amount of snaps as a lot of these guys and he's coming back from that injury this is the number one overall recruit from the 2020 class so there have been mega expectations for this guy he went as on went on the field has looked really good he is six five

300 pounds carries that weight very very clean cleanly. He looks thick. He looks great. Everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Everywhere, you're right. There's no like, okay, you got to get stronger here or there. I wrote the combination of quickness and power is in a pretty unique tier with this guy. The fact that you have that kind of play strength,

but you're also very quick off the ball or during the play and have the burst, you see why this is what number one overall recruits are made of, right? They possess athletic traits that most guys in the country don't. So Brazee has all of that. What I will say, total junkyard dog against the run. More than willing to do the dirty work. No problem mixing it up.

No problem scratching, clawing, trailing plays from the backside. He'll do all of that stuff. So there is no, I was the number one recruit ego in this guy where put me on the edge and I'm going to win one-on-ones and I want the sacks and I want the numbers. This guy will do all of the BS that the defensive staff there has asked him to do, which is a lot, as we talked about Miles Murphy over and over again, a lot of read and react, a lot of contain, a lot of the not fun things that gets you off the field and wins you in football

games. So the not fun things on first and second down that puts the opposition in third and long. So I want to make that very clear with him. when you do watch the games that he has played in, why the stats might not be jaw-dropping, but they are good. Scheme diverse player with an athletic build for multiple alignments up front. If you want this guy to be your three tech, he could do that. If you want him to play five tech, he could do that. If you want to kick him inside, shade nose and nose on passing downs, could do that so brazee super talented all things everybody already knew i liked what i've seen on film i just want to see him healthy and i want to see him go from being a really a elite recruit that's been a good player to an elite college football player and nfl draft prospect uh i have brazee at number, and I wasn't jazzed about it

because the other player that I think both of us are going to mention. You wanted to do it. No, I did. I really wanted to do it because I think Brazee is a good player. These three guys are good, really good. I don't know how much further I'd go to say that he's a good – I don't know. So, all right.

He's 6'5". He's 300 pounds. He's the former number one overall recruit in the country. I mean like his pedigree kind of like talks or speaks for itself. Tore his AC after four games last year. So that's not ideal. Obviously he needs to just show that he's healthy more than anything else. Here's the strengths and weaknesses that I have with him. Length on the interior presence presents unique advantages being six foot five,

300 pounds, kind of the same thing as Gervin Dexter, right? When you have a guy who is six foot five three hundred pounds kind of the same thing as gervin dexter right when you have a guy who is six foot five has that kind of leverage as a zero or one technique player or just lined up wherever you're going up against guards or centers it's very unique you don't have a lot of guards or centers that normally have the length strength speed ability to be able to handle that and i think that um brazee just presents a very unique advantage in that way he's a strong player whose pass rush profile is based around a bull rush and a club rip move that's what he likes to do that's a consistent go-to one-on-one he can really stand out with strength with really nice lower body drive often pushing guys back into the

pocket right in front of the quarterback covers ground very nicely when he's slanting and shooting gaps on the inside uh does a lot more slanting than the shooting of gaps weaknesses he's got the body type of defensive end but he's playing nose tackle on the interior you know it was like it was one of those things where it's it's the same thing with dexter i kind of understand why you're playing him at nose and one one because you want to get that really unique length advantage, but he wasn't, I, he, I didn't think he was super impactful as what you want from a nose.

Like you need a nose tackle player. I guess, I guess you don't need this. It depends what scheme you're running and how you want the guys to really play with strength and weaknesses compared to the rest of the defense. But like, Brizzy gets blown back by double teams like he can't hold a point of attacking his double teams he's 605 300 pounds and like he's he's strong

but it kind of goes back to like i liked this player i didn't love this player and when you look at what clemson asks him to do a lot it's a lot of slants like it's a lot of stunts dude they're not all it is right they're not asking him to really do much so i don't have a lot of stunts, dude. They're not all it is right. They're not asking him to really do much. So I don't have a ton of pass rush development from him. This is kind of like a, it's a little bit like the Trayvon Walker scenario where you're just, you're just projecting how physically gifted this guy can be. Yep.

Into the NFL because you're not seeing it now. Brent Venables is no longer at clemson so i wonder what they're going to do with brucey if it's going to be the same role if they're going to let him pin his ears back a little bit more if it's going to be a little bit more traditional i'm not sure but when i was watching him before he got hurt last year i'm like this is a unique clearly gifted player who's not making that much of an individual impact i guess you know i that's that's probably harsh because the whole point of what he was doing is he was opening up rushing lanes for other players whether it be the linebackers or the defensive ends or

whatever it was and he's he does a great job of slanting and stunting and things like that i i just i couldn't put him at, I did not love him, man. I didn't love him. I really didn't. And I wish, you know, you put him at three. I wish you'd put him at three, but there's another guy that we're going to talk about that kind of has a little bit of limitations

and he has his own health problems as well that we've got to talk about. But for being a former number one overall recruit and a player who people told me consistently over the last year, Oh, just wait till you watch Brian Brzee. Just wait till you watch him. He is good. I'm not trying. I'm not in any way, shape or form saying that he is a bad football player, but what they ask him to do has completely what they ask him to do and where

they play him on the defense has limited the way that I have to project him to the NFL. He's a good defensive lineman, but I'm not, I'm just not jazzed. I'm not super jazzed about him. He's not like a guy that I have to have right now. So very intrigued to see how they play him and where they play him in this upcoming season. I just think that they never let him take over games. And that is so hard on an evaluator, right?

Like we've been told for the longest time, this guy has the talent to be somebody that constantly takes over games. And they never put him in that spot where they were like, okay, you're the guy that's taking over the game. And some people would tell you like doing the dirty work in the middle and freeing up the rest of the team is taking over the game. And I hear you, but again,

he's doing that in Clemson's defensive line scheme. If you're playing him at nose tackle in the NFL, and he's going up against a power blocking team in the middle, he's getting blown off the ball. At least right now he is. So I don't know. It's, it's a clearly a very talented player.

I feel like I'm peeing too hard on the overall talent because talent is what matters most when you're talking about guys going from one level to the next it's a former number one overall recruit you've got to respect that but i was certainly hoping to i think that you put it beautifully there i was hoping to see him take over series not even full yeah not games games is unfair series man like on a third down or a second down like set the tone go get the tackle in the backfield and they just never let him do that and he does not have the profile to do that right now because it's not what he's being taught to do so just a very difficult uh eval for me so my number two i i thought the film was just i had

to have him at number two. I don't care what the consensus is. I don't care what the other rankings are, the hype, the recruiting. Siaki Ika, the nose tackle from Baylor. I mean. Who was formerly at LSU. Who was at LSU and came over to Baylor for the 2021 season and was the newcomer in the Big 12 in that conference.

And he made a statement. I mean, one look at this guy, dude, he's six foot four. He's listed at 358 on Baylor's site. I have it on authority that authority that's a little it's a little closer to 350. And that's a big difference. Like playing at 360 or playing at 350. I'd rather have I'd rather have him play at 350. Yeah, I don't know why they listed him at 358. I've heard that's not what he's what he's a big difference. Like playing at 360 or playing at 350, I'd rather have him play at 350. Yeah, I don't know why they listed him at 358.

I've heard that's not what he's at right now. Who knows? Whatever. Baylor updated to closer to 350. So true zero tech. Like all the guys we've talked about were like, man, they get asked to play nose and shade nose, and it doesn't put them in the best spot. This dude, right over the center, an absolute unit. He's the width of center an absolute unit he's the width of a door

frame he's a width of a hallway true zero tech shade nose built like a freight train he makes offensive linemen look small like i don't know if i screenshotted the all 22s sometimes when he's near a guard or a center it looks so funny funny. He makes them look like running backs. That's how big he is. Surprising quickness considering the weight he carries. Trevor, it's crazy the way this guy moves for that size. It doesn't make any sense. You look at him and you go,

and you look at where they line him up. If you just screenshot the end zone view of the All-22 and you're like, okay, Baylor wants this guy to two gap. They want him to hold the point of attack. They want to contain they want him to stop the run and if it's an obvious passing down situation in which we know happens in that conference a lot with the teams they play maybe they'll let him push the pocket a little bit no this guy can do a lot of different things he's very nimble on his feet when closing in on the pocket to finish plays he understand understands how to disengage blocks get hands off of him i saw a head fake and then to go cross face and turn into the pocket he it's really really impressive the way he can torque his body at that

weight but he does have the strength of a traditional 350 plus pounder that plays nose tackle where when you ask him to be responsible you ask him to contain you ask him to hold the point of attack he can do that he can take on two blockers he can redirect running backs to go wide instead of through the a and the b gaps i love this player i really really do i don't know exactly what led to his departure from lsu and when i say departure i don't like i'm not saying a kick to how he ended up at Baylor, but Baylor's defensive system has been awesome for guys going to the NFL. Look at last year's NFL draft. Look at this dude's film from 2021.

I think he already has blossomed into an above average player that might even quietly be a star and has a legitimate chance to go in the first round next year. So I had him in number three. I had him right behind Brissy and no, I mean, you're right. He's awesome. His projection is certainly a lot easier because you see the exact type of

player that you want to see on film. You really do. And then you get those added advantages, right? At what is he? What was the height? What was the height for him? He's six, four, six, four, three 55. Then you get those added advantages, right? What is he? What was the height? What was the height for him?

He's 6'4". 6'4", 355 is kind of what I have him listed here, okay? If that's the case and the guy's playing nose tackle, you want to see him play nose tackle. Don't get moved off the ball. Be an anchor. Dominate with strength when you're one-on-one. Don't really lose ground when you're anchoring. You see all of that with him.

He checks every single one of those boxes. ground when you're anchoring you see all of that with him he checks every single one of those boxes and then you mentioned it sometimes he'll he'll hit you cross face he'll hit you with a little move he'll give you a club he'll give you a swim and you're like hold up what are we watching the second coming of vita vea over here like what what what is this guy doing and so he gives you that plus advantage in the passing, the pass rushing category as well. So he is certainly a lot easier to love. He's a lot easier to peg and say, this is why I'm drafting you. This is what you're going to do.

This is what you're going to be able to give us. Now he missed all of last season because he tore his triceps before the season. And that's not wait, that was him, right? Or was it somebody else? Why am I thinking of somebody else? The triceps was the guy that transferred to Arizona. That wait, that was him, right? Or was it somebody else? Why am I thinking it's somebody else? The triceps was the guy that transferred to Arizona. That was it.

The Louisville from Arizona State. Had that on the brain. So, look, I think the disadvantages of him, thankfully, not that he has healthy triceps. Biggest issue with him is balance. Like, he played on the ground way more than I thought he should. And I get it. Like sometimes it's a technique.

Sometimes when you're trying to get really low, sometimes when you're trying to maintain leverage, you go to, you, you go down to the knee and you try to make sure that you're able to kind of, you're, you're still like forklifting somebody. And it's not the cleanest way to do it, but I understand why if you're getting in heavy fights in the, in the trenches, sometimes that happens, you can get down to a knee but he has a handful of times where he's just getting pushed around he's getting a little too low he can't stay on his feet and then

he gets absolutely bowled over like he'll get pushed over he'll get completely pushed to the ground and that's gotta that's gotta get cleaned up a little bit we need you on your feet a little bit more we can't have you playing on the ground you're not really an asset to the defensive line when you're doing that the short arms were a problem at times when it came to disengaging with blockers right he can hit a nice pass rush move on you i love when he hits the rip i love when he can get across the face i love how he's using his lateral quickness and his first step explosiveness there but there are are other times where, you know, he's getting into a, he's getting into a bear fight with an, with a, with a trench player and the short arms just kind of show up for him.

I think he's got a little bit shorter arms than somebody that you normally see with, with somebody who is six, four, at least that's something that I wrote down. That's something that I saw from the film. So look, I really like this player for exactly what you think is going to be. And I think that that makes this from the film. So look, I really like this player for exactly what you think he's going to be. And I think that that makes his projection very easy. I think a lot of people are going to watch him during summer scouting

and they're going to come away very, very impressed just like we were here. I'd be shocked if he wasn't in most people's top three because like I said, you see the weight, you see the size, you see the role, you see where they're positioned him. You go, okay, this is what I want to see. You see that weight, you see the size, you see the role, you see where they're positioned him. You go, okay, this is what I want to see.

You see that. And then you get to see even more when he gives you the, the pass rush flashes. So Siaki Ika is from Baylor is definitely somebody that you guys need to know and get some eyes on. I think that this is a position that teams are struggling to find. And when I say that, I mean, like you look at the contract, the Jaguars just gave a guy like Fully Fired Kasi that is a true nose tackle, but does not have much pass rush ability.

When I look at Ika, he's somebody that can be a true nose tackle, but the fact that you can keep him on the field on passing downs, it might be his calling card to, okay, I'm not just a rotational player that traditionally goes in the third round of the NFL draft, the fourth round of the NFL draft. I can be a first round player because of that impact ability. All right.

I'm really glad we both like him. Cannot wait to watch that Baylor defense fly around again this year. Number one, dude. I mean, is there any any surprise absolutely no question about it absolutely no debate about this so i made a mistake i started this exercise by watching jalen carter brother i thought the same exact thing the same exact thing honestly i started to watch brian um brian yeah his his tape after jalen carter's and i was like i was like man i don't like this guy at all and i'm like well i'm like i'm like hold on wait is it i it's i think it's just because i watch Jalen Carter. Because Jalen Carter is truly an alien among us.

Interior defensive linemen should not be able to play the way that Jalen Carter does. He is, if he was in last year's draft class, he'd be a top five player, no doubt about it, right? Right? Oh, easily. was in last year's draft class he'd be a top five player no doubt about it right right oh easily he would have been a top five player no question about it the only reason that jaylen carter is not suiting up for your nfl team this year oh easily is because one your nfl team probably wouldn't have been picking high enough and and two, just because he was a sophomore. That's it.

That's it. His film, I'll let you, I cut you off here to freak out. No, no, no, you're okay. But he was an unbelievable man. I thought that when I watched his film, I was blown away. So he's from the same area in Florida as Warren Sapp, so he's kind of been maybe yeah so he's been getting that uh his entire life and while normally you would say about anybody like don't do that to a kid this guy's gonna challenge

like he's gonna push to be to try to live up to that he's that good of a prospect right now yep former four-star and was a top 15 recruit nationally so when you hear that he's a four-star you're like oh wow i'm surprised not a five-star he was a top 15 recruit nationally so when you hear that he's a four star you're like oh wow i'm surprised not a five star he was a top 15 recruit overall in the country so probably one of those fringe guys um weightlifting and basketball background so this isn't a dude that like got to school and they're like okay now you're gonna be on a college lifting program he's been competitive weightlifting for a while and you could see it he's got an excellent frame excellent strength plays with tremendous balance trevor he i know we talked about it with ika with carter never on the ground no and can get pinballed by a guard in the center when i say pinballed a guy that

he runs into a lot of blocks whether it's slide blocks or whether it's double teams or help in pass pro never phased never phased by at all just kind of pinballs around that way he can turn the corner at the top of the rush like no 300 pounder for people listening is getting into scouting you when you look at a guy trying to turn the corner i don't want to use the term necessarily bend, because I think that kind of indicates like torquing your contorting your body, but turn the corner,

turn your body, ankle flexion. You're if you like fire your hips, like completely, completely flip your hips from one spot to another while doing a move. Yeah. Two, three,

300 pounders. That's not like on the checklist. Okay. It's not even a thought. This guy can do it. He can turn the corner into the pocket. Swim moves offensive line, trying to gain low. So he's so strong, right?

Offensive linemen try to cheat a little bit with him, and they try to get under him for leverage, and he just breaks a swim on them right over him. He's incredibly intelligent incredibly intelligent he's very sharp pre-snap he often diagnoses if it's going to be a run or a pass throughout the game he starts to diagnose whether it's going to be what the offensive lineman is trying to do like i just previously said gaining leverage and cheating a little bit low on him then he'll play high he's he's kind of like watching a heavyweight boxer that

lets the fight drag on a little bit and will counter punch throughout the game and he's just so intelligent he can do both against the run he could shoot gaps if they want him to shoot gaps he can hold the point of attack and control if they need him to control uh the last thing i wrote down just rare stop and start for someone that large he's he's different he's a different dude this is one of the easiest evals i've ever done this the jalen carter and what comes to mind is i watched quentin nelson i watched like three games of quentin nelson back when he was at notre dame and i'm like uh like better than everyone else. All pro player. I mean, what, what, like, what do you want? This is, this is, he checks quite literally every box that you would want.

I'm not saying that Jalen Carter is a perfect prospect, but this is the easiest. Yep. This guy's going to be good in the NFL that I may have ever done. I mean, for him to not make it in the NFL is just going to be some act of God at that point. Like I just, he has been on the pathway for such a long time. He had 34 pressures last year on just 264 pass rushing snaps. Okay.

90 elite pass rush grade, the highest of any defensive tackle in the country. And that is a true sophomore that is able to do that. Strengths, elite movement skills for an interior player. Extremely rare, especially when he is moving laterally. He can cross the face of interior offensive lineman in the blink of an eye. Power at the punch is very strong and very violent

when performing any sort of push-pull, getting hands on the offensive lineman. Violent and quick swim move as well that could be a go-to and a deadly one in the NFL. There is so much to love about Jalen Carter, whether it's the build, whether it's now the experience already, the production success,

the athletic gifts that could say that the ceiling is even higher for him. The one with the only real weaknesses I have to his game are the hands could be a little bit more controlled at times, specifically when he is trying to swipe when he's just trying to swipe the hands and disengage from the offensive line and i've noticed that sometimes the hands can be all over the place when he's doing some of those other moves that you mentioned he's pretty precise with it you mentioned how intelligent he is as a rusher and i agree with you but i think that sometimes when he's going for a swipe specifically the

hands can be a little over the place it's almost like he's just trying to do it too fast, too violent. And he just needs to be a little bit more controlled in it. Also notice that the hands can be a little bit low at times. It feels like he does this when he's trying to look casual or mysterious to the offensive lineman and like, not let them know what his next move is going to be, but he doesn't need to do that. It's kind of like he'll fire off the ball at the snap

and his hands will just be kind of like down near where his hips are because he's almost like looking at the interior offensive lineman and saying, oh, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? Because he knows he's that fast. He knows he's that violent. He's that strong that he could basically have the offensive lineman crapping in their pants when he has that element of surprise where he's not strong that he could basically have the offensive lineman crapping in their pants

when he has that element of surprise where he's not giving anything away but you don't totally have to do that you know you can still do that with the hands up chopping the hands having them more in an engaged position to be able to hit some sort of move do exactly what you want hit a club rip swipe the hands away hit a swim move whatever it is the hands can just be a little bit higher they don't have to be that low for you to maintain that element of surprise and what your next move is going to be and honestly man that's all i got for him this is truly one of the most gifted interior defensive linemen i've ever scouted um And just an incredibly easy eval because you watch two games of this guy. I watched three for Jalen, but you watch two games of him and you go,

yep, that's an NFL player playing in a college football program. And that's kind of the way that I see Jalen Carter. I would be shocked if this is not a top five, maybe not even, maybe even top three overall pick when it comes to next year's draft yeah i'm with you man i just think that like you said he's ready to play in the nfl today he absolutely when you kind of stack up this class like you always get surprise players right but as we get pretty deep into the summer scouting you kind of feel like will anderson and jaylen carter sitting in the top five right now and they're just not gonna leave it's it's you don't want

to get too far ahead but you just something they're just so ready to go with how they win and how they dominate in the sec uh and it's it's a fun change because we obviously really haven't we didn't have guys like that last year i mean aiden was really good but aiden also took a massive leap from last summer to this throughout the season like these guys right there they've arrived already dude yep they're already here like i said if they could have been if they could have declared for the draft last year they would have both of these guys would have been top 10 picks easily easily would have been i mean will anderson will Will Anderson clearly would have been the number one overall pick

in last year's draft. And Jalen Carter probably would have been the number two overall pick right after Will Anderson. So these are two guys that – Yeah. I mean, yeah. When you watch them, they're better than Trayvon Walker was as a prospect. Not to do the old let's kill Trayvon Walker for the millionth time no no way yeah like i'm just saying the films they're all playing the same

games they're playing next to each other exactly right there i think you'd clearly rather have uh rather have jalen carter than any of them so all right anybody outside of your top five that you wanted to give a shout out to um well no because I already did the, I already talked about Dexter. Yep. I know you briefly mentioned Jermaine Lowell. I want to make sure I'm saying his last name right. I think so. I believe so.

He transferred from Arizona State to Louisville. He's the one that had the triceps injury that ended his season. He's an interesting player because he's, he's a very compact player playing on the defensive line. He's one of those more Grady Jarrett-type shorter defensive linemen. So he's somebody people should keep an eye on. But those were the main ones on today's show that I thought were worth

a preseason mention. I also watched Jacob Slade from Michigan State. I'm going to read the official measurements here so I get it right. 6'4", 315 pounds, former three-star dude. Look, he's just a solid interior defensive lineman. Like, this is a guy who I think is going to get drafted in the mid-rounds of the NFL draft,

and he's just going to be a solid backup rotational spot, kind of a big strength defensive tackle. He understands why he's on the team, right? Eat double teams, be strong, be an anchor, open things up for other players. And he's got a little bit of pass rush to him, but you know that his bread and butter in the NFL is just going to be one of those rotational bodies

that you can throw in the trenches that just really is able to hold the point of attack for you. So he's just one of those rotational bodies that you could throw in the trenches that are just really is able to hold the point of attack for you so he's just one of those true understands what his role is as an interior defensive lineman and i think that can have a long career in the nfl it really can't like you can play for a long time even if you're not a star at the defensive level so i wanted to give out a shout out to uh to jacob slade as well yeah so this is a group that you know hasn't been uh really that deep wasn't really that deep. It wasn't really that deep last year, and I think that obviously now we have a star talent at the top

of this one, a guy like Berzee that you hope makes that jump. Obviously, we really like Ika as well. This group has a few guys, like you said, with Slade that they just do their job, and a lot of the work of being a three-tech can be not pretty at times,

but that's the nature of the position. Yep, some nice players in this class and an absolute all world unicorn that's at the very top of it in Jalen Carter. So there we go. Those are our top fives for the interior defensive line going into the preseason there. That's it for this episode,

which means the next time you guys hear our voice, it will be part two of the expansion series that we are doing. Again, if you missed part one, go back and listen to Monday's episode where we kind of set the stage for an NFL expansion team. We list all the protected players that we go through in the NFL that are currently there.

And then next Monday, we are drafting from the guys that are left, the guys that are available. It's one player from every team that are currently there. And then next Monday, we are drafting from the guys that are left, the guys that are available. It's one player from every team that wasn't protected. We've got to stay cap compliant. So there's a little bit of strategy there. And then of course, we're going to shout out you guys as teams

that you build from now until then. Anyways, thank you so much for already doing that. I know we're going to get a lot more between now and then. So I'll just preemptively say, love you guys. Thank you so much for caring so much about this little project. It's made it so much fun for us. Can't wait to cap it off

with episode two on Monday. I'm Trevor. That's Connor. This has been the NFL Stock Exchange. We'll see you guys then. Thank you.