NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - Early 2026 NFL Draft Safety Rankings

Episode Date: March 20, 2026

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Do people stand for Safeway the way that they do like Publix or Wegmans? Brian said hell no. Hell no. Hate Safeway. I don't F with Safeway. Christ no. Wow. Safeway, how are you still in business?

I've never seen a disapproval rate this high for anything. I will never respect Safeway ever again in my life. Unless they want to sponsor this show in which case we'll sell out. I'll do a mock draft from a Safeway. You will see me bake the bread at the bakery section of the sales. Safeway. The NFL Stock Exchange podcast, Trevor Sick of McConnell Rogers, coming to you live, freem friendly neighborhood Safeway.

Dude, the, the image of you holding the bread. Top tier. That got me. To reiterate to everybody out there, we don't see the cold opens before they drop. No. The chef cooks them up behind the scenes. He's like a Michelin Star chef. He cooks it up behind the scenes.

We're simply at the table with the rest of you. And then he brings it out as one of the courses for a final. meal here on this podcast. So that was a joy. I love that. Welcome to the show, everybody. Appreciate everybody tuning into this one. The long waited, Connor, much requested, highly demanded, and probably very long overdue. Safety ranking episode that we have on the show. We ran out of time last year as we went through our positional ranking episodes and we did not get even get to safety. So outside of summer scouting, it's crazy. It's been two years since we have done a final sort of safety ranking.

Connor, how we feel on, my friend? Feeling real good because this is a pretty top-tier group as terms of where safety classes go. I mean, if the previous classes were as good as this one, I think we would have found a way and cut something else. This group is just, it has depth, it has, you know, star talent at the top. And by the way, you want to talk about a master class of producing from the chef? Yes.

The reason, like, we don't see, we've said it before. We don't see the cold opens before, and that's on purpose. He finds a way that when every show starts, we are smiling and laughing. That's true. As the show opens, this man is just a mad scientist behind the scenes of producing. Can we get nonstop chef emojis in the chat for Tyler Cook, aka the chef, the producer, who kicks every NFLSE episode off with a bang with these cold opens, which would be very, very much.

appreciate. I see a lot of people going off in the chat right now. We've even got a couple of super chats already. I'm actually going to read a couple of them right off the bat to kind of get the show started. But as you guys know, for the most part, we'll read some of the super chats throughout the show when we see them in their topical, but mostly we will save them towards the end of the show. So we're not going to read most of the super chats in the show. We will read them after the show in the after the episode portion of it. SX gave us a $10 super chat to start things off, said sub small fries, which we appreciate the bit, getting back. We got to keep that one alive.

Who's your favorite Nevada Wolfpack prospect to come out? Austin Corbett used to babysit me. Wow, that's quite the call. Top of mind for me, just Romeo Dobbs comes to mine right away. Nice, nice, nice. But not going to lie, like that was one of those first thing you think of kind of things. I mean, the only one who came to my mind immediately was Jordan Love. Or no, wait, that's Utah State, same colors.

He's Utah State. Nevada was Colin Kaepernick. Nevada was Colin Kaepernick. Yeah. All right. I'll take that one. So if you go quarterback. Nevada.

Nevada. Who else we got here? Well, you know, let's do it. No, let's do it. I'm doing it. Nevada draft history. Also, wait, I say Nevada. Is it Nevada?

People are going to get mad at me. I don't Nevada. You also say Nevada. Yeah, I do not. I do not Nevada. Who Nevada is? Is that like a Midwest thing? I don't know.

I feel like I've been yelled. I feel like I've been yelled at for. this before for saying it wrong. It's like a, it's like a Spencer Fano-Fano situation that we got going here. Yeah, but I don't know, no, no. There, his name is Spencer Fano. It's, it's not written.

It's not not Nevada. Let's take this very clear. I feel like that's a, that sounds very Midwest to be like, Nevada. Nevada. Nevada. Yeah, no way. No way. Somebody, somebody says that it's not Nevada. That it's Nevada.

Oh, boy. It's the hard A, Nevada. I'm not buying it. Okay, so who are the prospects who have come through from Nevada? So last year was Keaton Crawford. Yeah, okay. 2020, and these are just drafted guys. Yeah.

Romeo Dobbs and Cole Turner in 2022. 2018 was Austin Corbett, aka the babysitter. The babysitter. The baby sitter. Dude, I'm keeping that. I'm keeping that. I'm keeping that. We are rolling with that for forever.

That's why we do super chats here on this show. I got a message pro football reference and have his page because they have nicknames. Oh my gosh. Yes. You think we could do it? I think that we could find some industry sources to get the babysitter on his pro football reference. Yeah. We need Austin Corbett to approve that his nickname is now the babysitter.

2014, an absolute banger. Joel Betonio. Oh yeah, that'll probably, that's probably it right there. That's the big one. He was a second round pick, of course. I'm looking for somebody that was drafted earlier than that. Of course, the Jets in 1996 in the second round took Alex Van Dyke, a wide receiver. Oh, who can forget?

That is... I mean, AVD, I mean, changed lives. For a lot of not-so-good reasons, a lot of jet fans of a certain era, call back to how bad that pick was. I was actually trolling. I have no idea who that is. Right. It's not something that means a lot to me because of my age. And then you've got to go really much deeper.

Yeah. I know. Ganges mentioning Colin Kaepernick. We mentioned Colin Kaepernick off the top. Yeah. Kaepernick we said at the top. Joel Betonios had a good career. That's one of the best ones for sure.

That's a stud. That's a stud for sure. So we'll read Super Chats throughout the show, but most of them will read at the end of the show. because we've got a lot of safeties to talk about. I watched 15 safeties, 18, if you count some of the nickel defenders. This is tricky. I know that we're going to get here in this show. So I didn't include the nickel defenders in my top 10.

I know that you did because I was helping Tyler get some of the notes for the show for the graphics. You don't know me. I don't know where they are in your ranking. I don't know where they're. The integrity of the not integrity of the show is still intense. but I think that this will also give us a fun little excuse to talk about more safety prospects because I do agree with you. Some years will go by and we will have good safeties at the top.

But it's very rarely that we get a year like this where we go, yeah, top 10 is all like kind of intriguing to me. Like I feel like there's a lot of safeties that could really help out defenses that will fit in different formats. And we'll talk about, you know, scheme fits and just overall like what these guys do really well, maybe some things that'll hold them back. all that great stuff. So let's kick it off.

Let's get into it. Let's get to the top tens here. Let's roll the animation, baby. Six through 10, the safety rankings here for Connor. There it is. All right. Right off the bat, you get a couple nickel players that'll be listed at Corner.

All right, talk it out for the people. This is your list. Well, first of I'm laughing at Georgetown USA. Just goes, Toledo dude is a baller. The rest, I'm out. Wow, that's it. I respect taking a stance. Also, how few times all due respect to Toledo?

Have you been able to say that in any sort of NFL draft when you're talking about the secondary or any position at all? Quinnion Mitchell's year. That's what I'm saying, though. Toledo, that wasn't that long ago. Toledo might be on the up. Toledo might be on the up, brother. So for those listening, 10. Respect DBU.

Is it Charlie? That's right, Charlie. Kind of. I think he's talking about BJ Payne from Kansas. state, Charlie. Oh, okay. That's his DBU. VJ. Payne, wild-sized

speed explosion kind of athlete. There's some other aspects of his game. He's got to clean up. But yeah, so Chubbo-wub just kind of, I think I'm right. The Nevada people, it's a Midwest thing. It goes in line with their accent for everything. You and I are East Coast boys.

We say Nevada. Yeah. Which is a correct way to say it, but I understand some people like to have their own little twist on things. What if people from Nevada actually think that it's Nevada? Are we still correct? Yes. Yeah, good.

I just wanted to make sure that we were on the same page there about all that. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that we were unified. Good, good, good. Glad we solved that. Nine, Jalen Kilgore. Trev, you brought up, you know, our rankings might have some different players and stuff going down, you know, how you evaluate guys that play the slot, the nickel, and how they can transition to safety.

or if you view that as a safety listing. Kilgore is going to be one of those combos. Zaki Wheatley from Penn State, who we've had in a few mock drafts, big-bodied kind of player has handled a couple different roles for Penn State. He's a safety. Wheatley. Totally, yeah.

He played a ton of single-eye stuff this past year specifically. Yes, and 24, I think he did a little bit too. But he's done a little bit of everything. He does. Seven Keontes Scott is probably the poster child of that. He's a, some teams will have him as a nickel corner flat out, not even as.

To me, this is actually one where I think his play translates more to strong safety. He's going to play slot, of course, at the next level, too. But I actually like Keonté Scott as a box safety with his linebacker style run defense, which is just really wild. A senior bowl standout, Bud Clark had a very strong week. He's been at TCU for a long time. 60 or senior, I believe all six were at TCU. Another guy ran really well.

jumped really well. I thought the testing matched the tape, ball production, consistent ball production with Bud Clark, three plus interceptions across four straight seasons, 15 in that span. You love to see guys that don't go through the spikes and then the lows.

Clark is just, he consistently makes plays on the ball across multiple years. So another guy I think is a true safety in this class. And yeah, it's a really, really fun group. I thought this is really strong for a six through 10. In other years,

you could argue a few of these guys might find themselves in the top five. Noah is asking us to please say Chicago. So obviously that's how that is said. Right. I think a lot of people in the chat are asking us to say Chicago. That's the one, that's the, that's the hard A. That's the one where obviously it's a, it's the hard day there when you're naming the city. It's totally different from Nevada. Chicago is totally different from Nevada, of course. Chicago. I have triggered so many people with that. Yeah, yeah. That is unpinning the grenade with my teeth and then throwing it over the trenches.

That's what I just did there. Yeah, so, well, let's just go through my... Yeah, got to see it. Reveal yourself, coward. Yeah, reveal the animation there. Easy. Easy, killer. Too aggressive.

So, Colwisniewski from Texas Tech. He spent most of his career at North Dakota State, then transferred over to Texas Tech this past season. Really like this player. I'm going to dive a little bit deeper into it. Obviously, I haven't in number 10. I don't think he's a lead or anything. But very interesting player. Lewis Moore, the safety from Indiana, right place, right time feels like always.

Oh, my goodness, yes. I mean, you want to talk about like a guy who I'm not worried about him being out of place and having like broken plays or busted plays here or there. That's Lewis Moore to me. Really, really high floor as a football player, always in the right position. Is he the best athlete? No, I'll talk about that a little bit more. I also have BJ Payne on this list.

You had him at number 10. I had him in number eight. Now, he would have been, I think, 10 or 11, if I would have included Jalen Kilgore, Keante Scott, and then Trayton Stukes is another one who I know that you have on this list, who I also categorizes like a nickel defender, so I don't have him in here. But if I include all of those guys, then VJ Payne's a little bit lower. But yeah, man, it's super explosive in how he plays. I'm going to be honest with you.

I think he might be a corner. Like I think I might like him better actually as like an outside, let's teach him to play Pressman Corner. That's, he's got the, yes. Like, he's got the length. He's got the explosiveness. He is an athlete to be able to do that. And he's got a slender build to him.

So I don't love putting him in a responsibility where he's got to really conjure up the power and tackle. But as an athlete, man, I mean, he's an excellent athlete. And we saw that at the Combine as well. Bud Clark, I have a number seven as well, really fun football player, which we'll talk about a little bit more. and then Comari Ramsey from USC I have at number six.

I think let's talk about Kilgore and Keante Scott really quick because I don't have them on my list. If I did, they would be five and six for me. Kilgore would be five. Okay. And Keontay Scott would be six. So I'm a little bit higher on both of those guys than you are. But yeah, let's get a little bit more into Jalen Kilgore, who, let me pull up the profile here,

South Carolina, True Jr. coming. out six foot one and three eights two hundred and ten pounds uh 32 and seven eighth inch arm so he's 76th percentile in height 66th and weight and 88th in arm length for him he plays that that like slot and overhang position yeah does not do a lot of true safety stuff in fact he's listed as a corner on pf's uh database he's actually listed as a corner more than he is a safety because of how much he played in the slot. Now, PFF doesn't have a specific tag for like a nickel defender. You're either a safety or your corner when it comes to the secondary. But it goes into a lot of the versatility that he has. Conner, I think that he tested really well, especially in the 40-yard

dash. He did. He is a really good athlete. I think the size really shows up consistently for him. He plays a lot in that off-coverage alignment. He didn't play a ton of press, but he plays off-coverage and he has, I think, good feel for spacing and technique of off coverage to still be an impactful player, although I will say, for as good of an athlete as he is, I wish he was a little bit more aggressive in his spacing. I feel like he could be a little bit tighter in his coverage and a little bit more aggressive to the ball. But he's got good ball skills.

When he, something I noticed with him is when he bumps or hand fights a receiver, they feel it. Like he's a strong. He's a big strong. strong dudes. So some of these guys like have some size and length to them, but they don't really, you don't really feel them like when you're kind of trying to, you know, disrupt the route. You absolutely do that with Kilgore. I think that he is a reliable tackler when he's in those situations to be, especially he's got a good run defense grade overall. And I think that he's, when he's playing near the line of scrimmage, I think he's a really nice run defender. He brings

that strength to him. There are times when he's tackling from depth when I feel like he's too much of an ankle tackler, but he's diving at ankles. But I think a lot of defensive backs just do that by nature. When he's near the line of scrimmage, I think he puts his hard hat on, and he's a lot different of a run defender there. The two areas where I wish he would be a little bit better is he does the speed turn a lot where, let's say,

let's say he'll be playing with outside leverage and he'll have his back to the line of scrimmage. and the slot receiver will sort of like run straight at him and then get to his blind spot like go to his back. Instead of flipping his hips to where his shoulders are square with the receiver and trying to mirror him that way, he does the like turn the other way, like turn his back to the line of scrimmage.

So he tries to do the speed turn. And that's just not going to work at the NFL level. It's a big concern for me. You'll get cooked too many times doing that. And so we've got to shore that up for sure. I wish he was a little bit more aggressive because I think he can be even stickier in coverage. But I'll be honest, man.

I think this guy's like a second round type of a player. Like I think he's a second or third, like a late second, early third, I think is the grade that I gave him because I think as a nickel, a specific nickel player, he does have a lot of potential to be a guy who could start in this league and be a mismatch guy. Yeah, he's interesting because he does a lot of things really well for a young player. Like he's going to play his entire rookie season at 20.

21 years old. He was a three-year starter in three years at South Carolina. Team captain this year. You talked about the size, length, the initial burst. I mean, the last two years, the ball production is there, seven picks, 15 passes broken up. Length and strength and press. I thought in contested scenarios or congested scenarios,

the arm length is a weapon. It's a weapon. He knows how to utilize that to really, really be a disruptor. When things get vertical, he can open up, and you brought up the speed turn, and run down the field. And the testing time as well matches that.

I mean, he went 4-4 at 210 pounds. So that I liked. Where he's a little bit of a tricky projection, he played the slot. In man coverage, I thought, and this maybe goes back to your point about how he turns, I thought his hips were a little tight sometimes and the lateral agility was mediocre,

specifically against Casey Concepcion and Kevin Coleman, two NFL matchups. The better ones, for sure. Where I was like, in the short area stuff, he got beat in that scenario. The problem is, so when you say that, you're like, well, maybe he's going to play a little strong safety at the next level as he gets older because he's big. You think he could be physical.

It's weird. He gets stuck on perimeter blockers a lot in the run game and screen game. Guys that he's bigger than where I'm like, dude, you are bigger and stronger than those guys and you're stuck on the block. He's just, he's not a brawler in the run game, even though he looks like one. So a guy I definitely struggled with because I feel like he's an ascending player at his age. He's got an incredible build. He's got straight line speed.

But I don't know what his long-term home is. And of course, matchup player against tight ends. And like the line that I wrote was he's a big nickel defender that has the size and speed to match up with tight ends or any jumbo-sized pass catcher. But when the teams that play smaller slots might be able to pick on him a little bit and then I don't think he has the brawler mindset yet to be a true strong safety. So I'm comfortable with round three

because that feels developmental. But if teams draft him and expect help right away next year, that would be a little tricky for me. I don't think that he's, I don't think that he's Nikki Manwari, but it is really, it is very interesting that a lot of the issues that you listed off for Kilgore

I also had of even Eman Worry when I watched his South Carolina stuff. And they're both coming from the same program. And I'm not saying that like South Carolina is like not teaching these guys the right way. That's not what I'm trying to say at all. I think that's a good program. But Eman Worry was kind of able to mitigate a lot of that. You felt a listen breathing down your back on that one. Yeah, of course.

South Carolina. I've never said a bad word about South Carolina. I love my wife. Jailin Kilgore is my number two player on the draft. That was great. Yeah, Rasul Faison, I think you should get talked about as RB1. I don't know why we're not talking about him enough. I love my wife.

But yeah, so, like, sometimes, like when I watched him in Worry, some of the issues that I had with him is like sometimes I felt like he was stiff in the hips when he was going up against quicker receivers. And then there were other times when I watched him at the second level where is a strong safety where I didn't feel like he played strong enough. And a lot of that is, and I'm not like totally bumping Kilgore because I think he's going to be the next Eman Worry, but it's sort of a situation where I've kind of watched somebody get better in those areas.

And a lot of like what, like I don't know why Kilgore just does the speed turn. Like I don't think he's not athletic enough to flip the hips and run. If he is, then yeah, I think we're talking on the lower end of kind of a rotational player and maybe get stuck a little bit. but I don't, I don't really see that from him. Instead, I, I'm seeing just a lot of the good and I feel like he's a good football player. So, yeah, I'd take him around, I'd take him around the top 60. I really would like 60, 75, something like that.

Like I like this player in that light. So Scott will move to. Yes, Keante Scott next. Yeah. You go ahead and start. Keonti Scott, different kind of eval, because he's a 60th year senior, Kilgore, younger player, you know, Scott, you see right there, he's already 24 years old, went to Auburn and Snow College before having a mammoth year in the slot from Miami.

He's not the biggest guy. I think in the combine, he came in actually at 5-11-193. He's got 31 and 3 eighth-inch arms, pretty big hands, almost 10-inch hands. He plays some snaps in the box as well. This guy attacks the run like a linebacker. It is. Best run defending nickel in college football last season. No question about it.

Right. No question. In a league of his own. I would agree with that. I see in the chat some people saying, wait, I thought Scott was a cornerback. I'm ranking him as a safety. You're going to see some slot corners in my safety rankings that I think can play strong safety or free at the next level.

Scott, I think legitimately can play slot and strong safety. I don't think he has the speed to be a full-time slot corner, but I think he's one of those guys that you can move around. He does not miss tackles in the run game. He charges hard with balance. He wraps up. He makes plays behind the line of scrimmage all the time. He had seven TFLs this year.

I will say when he plays off coverage, his click and close is phenomenal. When everything is in front of him, his ability to trigger and attack is fat. I wrote Fast and Furious. He stuffed the stat sheet this year. He had five sacks. So he's all about family. That's right. You think of, yep.

You have any drink you want as long as it's a corona You think of Come on give me one more One more Come on shoot what's another one Oh no it took the ISO Not the ISO Not the ISO

I said forget about it Cah Yes nailed it With the ISO on Oh my goodness seamlessly That's actually my favorite line in the movie Is I said forget about it Cah You think about the slot blitzes He had five sacks

this year. He's got the timing of it, forced two fumbles. He actually returned punts at a pretty decent level for Auburn, which was kind of wild to backtrack to. And you look at the attitude he plays with on defense this year that he was also a punt returner before Miami. You know, I just, I think he can over pursue because of the way he plays. He's an older prospect. He's not the biggest or fastest guy. When he's asked to open up and run down the field from a vertical perspective, he can fall a half step behind. Like that's not going to be a strength for him. But Scott is what I would label as an enforcer kind of nickelback.

On SMA said, he checked Ocito guns. I was looking in the chat to see how many we got in here. Yeah. So going back to the Scott discussion, I would much rather categorize him as a safety than a corner, even though I think that he is, yeah, He's a nickel defender. If you want to call that a cornerback position, fine.

But there's a reason why I separate it. Like the secondary positions that I have in my Google sheet going through these prospects is wide man cornerback, wide zone quarterback, nickel defender, coverage safety, box safety. Like those are the five categories that I can put players in because I feel like by doing that, it allows me to evaluate their strengths more appropriately than if I were to just have them in. two boxes of like, are you a corner, are you a safety type of a thing? But to your point, if I was categorizing Keontek-Scott in one of those boxes, I would much rather have it be a corner or the safety box because I want him coming downhill. Like everything that he does

downhill is much, much better than when he has to turn his back and run, especially when it comes to those man coverage assignments in the slot. So I worry about that, yes. But who he is as a run defender is so, so, so, so valuable from that nickel defender position, especially when it's even closer to the line of scrimmage in like a press alignment. You just got to make sure that you've got safety help over top of him. He's not a slot corner where you just go like, yeah, okay, you and the wide receiver one-on-one, we don't have to worry about the rest. If you're going to put him on the line of scrimmage, you've got to be able to play too high

right behind him, or at least you've got linebackers that are dropping deep to be able to help over the top on those players. What I'll say about Scott before we move on is this. I think I've said this before when talking about Rubin Bain, but Miami did a lot of their work out of a underfront defense where they would put three defensive linemen to the left of the center, right? To that side of the line of scrimmage. You'd have a nose tackle. You'd have the three tech.

And then you'd have the, like a five or a six tech. So you'd have three defensive linemen to the left of the center. And then you would just have Rubin Bain as either like a four eye or a five technique player on the other side. And they would pair that with Keante Scott also playing the slot on that side of the line of scrimmage. So essentially, if you're the offense, you're looking at this pre-snap and you're saying, we have numbers to the right. Let's check into a run and let's run it to the right. They only have two players over there.

We've got at least three blockers to deal with. And that's not even counting the wide receiver that might be in the slot. And Miami all season went, go ahead, do it. See what happens. And Ruben Bain and Keante Scott would often wreak havoc and defend the run incredibly well from the line of scrimmage. So a little bit of a, we say this on this podcast, and all people love it or hate it when I say this. A little bit of a change-the-math type of a defender

when you're talking about what he could be as a run defender. I'm a little bit worried about him when he plays manned coverage. Yeah. From that alignment, there's no doubt about it. But as a run defender, incredibly valuable player. Who do we want to hit next that we had on the top 10? I mean, probably that you have Wisniewski in here. I think it's notable.

No Combine invite for Wisniewskiy. I know. Yeah, definitely is snub. There's no way around it. Combine snubble. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. So I was at the Shrine Bowl.

and was really impressed with him at practices. I just thought the instincts from day one were really nice from him. He's a red shirt senior. Now, he's got great size. He's 6'3 and 3-8s, 99th percentile for the safety position. 211 pounds, 70th percentile, decently long arms, 46th percentile arm length there for him. When he was at North Dakota State, actually, at high school, I will mention, played both quarterback and safety when he was in high school at Sparta, Wisconsin.

multi-sport athlete was a member of the basketball team, the track and field programs, was a team captain in basketball and football, commits to Notre Dame, or not Notre Dame, North Dakota State, played in 10 games of a true freshman in 2020, played in 15 games the following year.

The next year, he only played in seven due to injury, started 13 in 2023. 2024 was going to be his last year, but he missed the whole season due to a foot injury, and then he got 2025 where he was a full time starter for Texas. attack. I just think that for a plus-sized safety, somebody where we're seeing these guys get drafted at the very least, like early parts of day three when you got some talent. Big dude,

decently fluid hips for a player of his size when they put him in space and like free safety alignments. Pretty good feel for zone coverage. I love the instincts that I saw from him again, especially when I was watching him in person at Shrine Bowl practices. I think he's got the body type to match up with tight ends really, really well. He's pretty fast to trigger downhill when he's coming from depth and defending the run. I think he lacks that top level violence that I wish that he played with a little bit more as a bigger safety.

Average to below average athlete. We didn't get the testing numbers from him. Actually, I think that today... I was going to say that Pro Day should be rolling in soon here for Tech. Dakota States. Yeah. Or sorry, Texas Tech Pro Day. Yeah.

I think it is today. Isn't it today? I'd have to look. I actually just pulled up the sheet right now that all these numbers are flowing in. Anyways, all of his career interceptions also came from one season. It was that 2023 season. But I think he's a really solid player.

Like, he's a too high safety. Like you got to play him in those two high shells. He's not like a single high safety type of. March 26, Trev. Texas Tech. There we go. There we go. Okay.

So I'll be looking for that to see how he tests. But I think this is a player that's really solid. As I think of Lewis Moore as well, who is right above him. And we can just roll right into Lewis. more as well. He is a seventh year player from Indiana. Two-time Hoosier. Two-time Hoosier, which is kind of crazy.

So his journey, he played safety and wide receiver in high school. He was a zero-star safety recruit. He played at Navarro College as a wide receiver in 2019, 2020, and then 2021. But the problem is that he redshirted in 2019, had his season canceled because of the pandemic in 2020. And then he played a little bit of. bit in 2021. Transfers to Indiana in 2022, plays 12 games.

Switch to safety, by the way. Switched to safety when he got to Indiana. Had 10 starts at Indiana in 2023. Transfer to Ole Miss in 2024, only started two games there, then transfer back to Indiana and was a full-time starter for them on their national championship journey. So he is one of the older prospects in this class. He was in the 2019 recruiting class back when he started with Navarro College. He is, smaller as well, 5 foot 11, or yeah, 5 foot 11 and 191 pounds, which is 19th percentile and 6th percentile. But what I really like about this player is that, like I mentioned at the top of the show,

I just feel he's rarely out of place ever. His film was so boring in the best way possible. Never messed up. I mean, there were just not many plays where I watched him miss a tackle or not be where he needed to be. I mean, there were so many times where I felt like he was, where he was the first player breaking on a route, like in a play. Like, I'm watching the rest of the defense.

And he kind of like, you know, go big picture with it. And you slow things down. Like, he's the first one breaking on where the ball is going to go to. Breaking on a route, going to where the ball is going to go to. And that helps mask what I think is average or below average athleticism to go along with below average size, to go along with below average strength. He is just, he's not really a player that a lot of. of teams are going to bet on because I don't really think he has starter potential,

long-term starter potential. But man, such a good depth player who if you need somebody to rotate in, I just think that they're going to be able to fill out the back end of your team pretty well. So when we're talking about guys like this, like Wishnewski and Lewis Moore, like these are midday three pick type of players. I'm not talking about guys that are going to go in the top 75, but a really, really solid one that I think can stick around the league for a while because of how dependable he was for Indiana. I'm laughing as you're giving the great Lewis

Moore breakdown. There's in all caps. Trey comes through in the chat. I live my life a quarter mile at a time. The Fast and Furious quotes were like 20 minutes ago and then they just randomly trickle in. We do love it though. The OG Fast and Furious quote. Yeah. Now it's like 35 movies.

But Lewis Moore man, it's funny because you're so right. It feels like he discovered He plays the position like he can time travel. Like he's seen this before so he knows exactly where to sit. He's not even... Unks got it.

He's seen it all. Six picks. Three of them were off deflections. But like perfectly seated 100%. Yeah. He's very in control. He's very in control. One, you know, arm length obviously an issue.

Some 30 inch arms. Not the fastest guy, but incredibly smart. Reliable. You know, very Indiana. kind of player where those guys just don't make a lot of mistakes. It feels like that was who Signetti recruited veteran players that don't make a lot of mistakes. And I think that really defines more.

Seppard gave us a $2 super chat saying, can Lewis Moore be nicknamed high moving cost because of how much he's moved around? I think the chat nicknamed him the frequent flyer. That's actually really good. For safety, for free safety. Well done, chat. Well done there. I like it.

Yeah, nice chat, Kenneth. Who's left on the list? We talked about BJ Payne a little bit. I don't know if you want to go too much more into him. I could read off real quick. I think I actually wrote up the full thing for him already. Again, I might think he's a corner. Well, he's, I mean, he's a freak, dude.

He's 6.3.206. He's a freak. He's fast. He's a live. He's got almost 34 inch arms. By the way, Armgate is alive and well. No, it's out of control. No, it's out of control.

Didn't we say, didn't we say this like three weeks ago? Yes. I'm against AI in a lot of ways, right? I think we're open a Pandora's box. But if I can get the arm length bot verified measurements, send in the apocalypse. It cannot be this difficult. Now I'm looking at Vijay Payne, who comes in with great 33 and three quarter inch arms. I'm like, he's got 34 inch arms at corner, which is just safety, which is bananas.

And you see all the snap versatility there. Somebody said big combine strikes again. There's a lot of Kailer said get Steve Palazolo measuring these guys' arms next year. That's really good. And if people don't know, it's because Steve is 6'10.

Yeah, Steve is a massive, massive. That is really, really funny. They should have, they should have Peter Dinklage and Steve do it together. Of course, right. But air it on television. That'd be so awesome. Anyways,

VJ Payne, we'll get back there. Yeah, massive, fast, 4-4 speed. He's played in the box. He's played free safety. When you get to watch him run sideline to sideline, like he has to go stride for stride with somebody, it's jetpack level stuff. I mean, there's some plays where he is just shot out of a cannon

to get to the sideline. He had one stop right within the, five-yard line that I wish I remember who it was, where I almost posted the clip because I was like, this is just, he makes the tackle and knocks the guy out of bounds before scoring to the pylon. And it was just an unbelievable play. When he gets to play man coverage, you see the frame, the arm length, once again, like Kilgore, congest guys at the catch point. He trusts his speed when things get vertical. He's like, I could open up and run down the field. I think if you put him up against all these move tight ends in the NFL,

basically as a corner, like you're saying, Trev. And he's done it at the college level. He's covered tight ends at a high rate and high level for Kansas State. Now, there's definitely some instinctual deficiencies. Right. He guesses, he guesses wrong. He guesses wrong, and he stares down what's going on in the backfield. That, like, play action or motion and all these,

all backfield chaos is what I call it. Sometimes he's just like looking at it, waiting for it to happen and somebody runs by him. And it's like, no. You could see like the panic set in, but it happens a couple times. He could definitely finish some more plays for interceptions because he's so talented that you're kind of left sitting there.

Like, man, I can't believe you didn't take that ball away. Going back to the instinctual awareness kind of stuff, he doesn't get caught on blocks because he's not physical. He gets caught on blocks because he's so late to diagnose the screen. in front of him. And in the run game, he's kind of in no man's land alive. This probably all feeds into your corner theory with him. Right.

Like when he's playing strong safety, his downhill awareness is not, does not match the athlete and size where I'm with you. There's something to be said about he's an ultimate tight end matchup player is what he was to me. But that might mean legitimately just being a coverage player. Yeah, I think he is. I think he's just a coverage player. great. Yeah, the coverage in the box. And again, like, that's just, I would rather him play on the

outside and we convert him to a cornerback because I just think that that gets more out of his strengths. Not that he can't play as a coverage safety. That's what I have him listed at. But I just, I just think that you're getting more out of him if he's a corner because of how athletic he is. Really quickly, I had Kamari Ramsey at six. Do you have him on this list? No, I'm going to be honest with you. because I saw plenty of them on Big Ten this year. Writing him up and doing the full tape study, I was very disappointed in the big picture. I'm very curious to hear what,

and you know, he got hurt, which is also an issue. Well, they stuck him in the slot. Dude, he was, he was bad in the slot. I hate that. I hate that. In 2020, he was pretty good as a safety. Right, correct. I am leaning on who he was this safety in 24.

I think that's fair. I am totally leaning on who he was as a safety. I just think that whether it was at UCLA or USC, when he has been asked to actually play as a safety. Now, I don't know if he is super explosive enough to play in single high situations. I don't know if he's physical, quite physical enough to where you'd like call him a box safety, like a pseudo-linebacker. But in two high defenses, like in a too high shell, I really do think that Kamari Ramsey showed good anticipation,

good route recognition. I think that he was a very, very solid football player in 2024, not 2025. I think that he was misplaced in 2025 playing as much as he did in the slot. And I think it's a too high type of a safety. I still really like this player. He got on the field very early. Redshirted his first year with them, started 11 games, the redshirt freshman at UCLA, transferred to USC, started 11 games again,

started this past year, but he was in the slot. And I just don't think that, I just don't think that's his role in the NFL. It can be. He's more of a coverage safety. And I'm trusting what I saw from him in just some really nice overall game. Again, I thought the instincts were nice. I think there was good route recognition from him. And he was able to make up for not being the best athlete out there.

I just don't, I just did not love who he was as a slot defender consistently in single coverage. Yeah, I thought he just looked lost in the slot from a processing standpoint. Like the run game, some really, really bad angles, or he'd be late to a play and he'd come in high and kind of slide off the ball carrier. Yeah, but Camari Ramsey, I definitely agree much better in 2024. I was wildly disappointed with what 2025's tape showed. A lot of people are saying that they like Bishop Fitzgerald from USC more than Kamari Ramsey. I obviously do not. I think that Bishop Fitzgerald, like, is a, like, the kiss of death.

I think he is a draftable player. I could see you as like, be like, I don't want to do this. I got to say it. But I don't, I just don't think he's a great athlete. I just, I just do not think he played like a really good athlete. They put him in single high situations. I think he sees the game decently well, especially for playing zone coverage. But I saw athletic deficiencies with him in a way where if you're asking a guy who

primarily played as a single high free safety in college to play that same role in the NFL, I get worried. I get worried with him because I felt like when stuff got behind him, he didn't have that good of a feel for where routes were going and he'd get turned around and I don't think he had the athleticism to make up for it. So he was an impactful player for sure, but I still like Kamari Ramsey more than I like him in the grand scheme of things. Should we talk about Wheatley? Or do you want to wait? Yes. No, well, did he make your top 10? He's five, I think, for me. Okay. So we'll, we could talk about Wheatley and then Bud

Clark. Wheatley, quietly impressive is how I would describe him. It's interesting. He doesn't make a ton of splash plays, but he does the right thing all the time it felt like to me. He's massive.

I had him at the combine, and I couldn't believe how, like he's listed there almost 6.3-198. He's going to fill into that frame and play, I think, at 2.15. He's wide, tall. He looks. looks like a guy that you give it two years in an NFL program.

Penn State has a great program, but he's going to be even bigger. You said it, you know, he's gotten to play a lot of single high safety. I saw a lot of it in 2024 where he could be a ball hawk. He had three interceptions that year. He can handle both free safety and strong safety roles because I think he diagnoses the quick game really, really well. Every time they ran quick game in front of him, He's got long legs that chew up a lot of turf to cover it,

and he has a good feel for exactly where the ball is going, that I thought his best skill set was eliminating short area pass catchers from gaining any yards after catch. That's what stood out to me with him. I know the mistackle rate there doesn't paint the prettiest picture, but I thought when everything was maybe in the run game a little bit, but I thought overall he was a pretty clean prospect. I think that the reason that that mistackle rate,

can be high on the data point is that sometimes he'll lunge but also he's so tall he would get to a ball carrier and like grab at them but a blocker would get under him while he was doing it because he's so tall he naturally plays so high and upright and that's something he's just going to have to fight at the next level and one thing you're like we're talking about all these guys it's he's almost the inverse all these guys that play from the slot and cover from the slot he was not good at that. That's not what you want him to do, in my opinion. I wouldn't ask him to play man coverage from the slot. I would keep him more as a traditional safety where he can kind of see everything in front of him, not have to open up and run. But he was someone to me, like doesn't lack strength,

very, very willing tackler. He's got to figure out how to not be so upright to keep those blockers off of him. Mentally, very, very sharp. I just thought he was a trustworthy player when roaming the field in zone coverage and brought a higher floor than some other guys will bring. It's not going to be a superstar, but I think he'd be an average starter. Yeah, it's funny, I have him ranked higher than you. Technically, we'd have him right around the same exact spot. Because we'd have the nickels. The nickel guys.

But you have, you are more positive about who he is as a player because I really like him from those free safety alignments. When you give him the opportunity to make plays in space, he's a former wide receiver. So he's got the really nice ball skills when the balls are coming, way and he's got an opportunity to make an impact on it. He's got shorter arms, but he uses them very well. I thought he was going to have super long arms. He had 31 inch arms, which maybe big combines out of the head. Yeah, they don't look like short arms. They don't look like short arms, but 31 inch arms, I mean, that's, that's not very long. I don't know what the, I don't know if he got

remeasured at Pro Day or not, but I'm checking right now because I'm curious as well. The Per Day, athleticism numbers weren't super great from him, but I just think he's got a knack for playing that free safety role. You see the coverage grade in the box, the 30. I don't really like him when he is towards the second level, but I really like him when he is at that third level, as a deep safety, as a true coverage player. He is a willing tackler. He is slender in his build, but like you mentioned,

if he can put on some extra weight and strength, I feel a little bit better about that. But there were times when I was watching at Penn State where I was like, all right, well, you're clearly not holding up in run defense or tackling just because you're more slender of a build of a player. but I think he's really good as a coverage player. I think he's really nice to coverage player is the way that I should say it. Because I agree with you.

I think that this is a third round type of a prospect, like somebody who could potentially be a starter for you, rotational guy. But that's where I'm at on is a key Wheatley. I like him a good amount when he is in coverage. And I think that for a defense that likes to play some single high stuff, like he could be pretty valuable for you. Yeah.

And, you know, for the 4-6-240, which once, again, I said I don't really like him in man coverage. That's not his game. He doesn't have that long speed. The agilities that I'm seeing were really, really good. The 689-3 cone at his size in the 4-11 shuttle. I got to check the percentile on those, but those are above-average numbers for safeties.

I think from the, yeah, from a quickness standpoint, for sure. Bud Clark, you want to talk about Bud Clark? Yeah. All right. Clark, great senior bowl week. multi-year. He had a great senior ball week. Really great. He's a slender guy. Like 6-1-188. That's a slender build for a safety. And you see the once again the versatility in terms of the usage.

Only 319 at free safety. He just played a lot of football the last two years. Good tackler. The testing matches the tape with him, which is really important. He ran well with the 4-4-1 and had the 38-inch vertical. I see it on tape, the initial explosiveness, and the speed. I brought up the ball production, 15 picks over the last four years. He had five in 2022. He had four in 2025. So he started off really well and finished his career very strong. He's got range, vision.

When they let him play true free safety, which you see, that's the lowest snap count of the three roles. Trevor, I thought when he's roaming over the top, like you see vision, you see range, he's kind of dangerous back there. I don't know if TCU needed him. It was a necessity for him to handle other roles. but I was excited about Bud Clark as a roaming free safety.

Natural ball skills in the air. You see hang time and concentration wide receiver level stuff from him when he's trying to take away the football. When it's an outside run, that's when you see that 4-4 speed. He really, he has functional speed. Like it's game GPS kind of speed. You get into some of the weaknesses.

A little bit of a riverboat gambler. I brought up the cover. Like there's times where Bud Clark is, that's my ball and I'm taking this thing back and he turns around like, oh no, it got over me. It's what makes him great. It's what leads to low lights. Can you find the balance of, hey, I'm going to take away the ball four times a year, but not give up the four, give back four touchdowns?

It's tricky. The slender build is not concerning to me from a tackling standpoint. It's concerning that he's missed games across three different seasons. Right. He's missed time in 2021. He's missed time in 2022 and 2025. We brought up BJ Payne kind of getting his eyes in the backfield. Bud Clark does the same thing and guys try to run over the top of him.

So, and at 188, the mistackle rates only 10.7%, but his tackling strength is not impressive. He tackles people, but you watch other bigger safeties, not just hit guys, but the grip strength and the rap strength. With Bud Clark sometimes it's like, I just got to get the job done and hopefully people rally over here. So he's a little bit polarizing, Trevor, because his highs are, I'm like, God, and I think him playing more free at the next level will maximize his ability. But the way he gambles, you cannot do at the NFL level because you will get tricked by pro offenses.

Yeah. There are. There's just a lot of pros and cons with him. And this is going to be a prospect where you're going to hear some people have them in their top 75, maybe around top. 60. Because the highs. And if he hits, then they'll be like, see, I told you.

Idiots. He's not the, he's not the exact same prospect. But like, this is kind of the Kalen Bullock conversation, right? Remember with Kalen, it was like, yeah, okay, like everybody can see that he's an excellent free safety, but he can't tackle. And then he goes to the defense where it doesn't matter. There's, there's 10 other guys on the defense that would give their life to tackle. It's a great point.

Well, one, Kalen Bullock did get better at tackling. And I think that maybe that's a byproduct. just being around the system and the Texas. Answering to Dimeco Ryans and all those maniacs? I think that there's a lot. And Genesis Smith is somebody who, from Arizona, is a lot of the same conversations in. Do you have Genesis Smith in your ranking?

No, because he does not tackle. Because he won't tackle. Yeah. It is, when you are a safety, you have to think about the word. You are the last line of defense. You're the safety of the defense. if you can't tackle, we got problems.

Right. Because if there is a crossing player who's catching a pass in, like, in rhythm, in stride, and you got to come down and you got to hit this dude and stop him in his tracks and bring him down. And if you're going to ankle tackle him and he just leaps over you, guess what? 40-yard touchdown right there. That's your job. That's part of your job. And I think that there are too many players that I feel like I'm watching nowadays that ankle tackle is safeties.

You got to hit. Right. It's why the guy who's number four on my list is number four on my list. We'll get to AJ Halsey. But like, I ain't afraid of that. You go over the middle. He's lower in the shoulder and you can field the next day. So I think that's just a really important part about playing safety.

And I know that Genesis Smith has a lot of great coverage highlights in what? Bork, Bork, Bork,ington. Bullock, some of you may die tackling for me. But that is a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Hey, I said he's gotten better. He has gotten better. It's not quite that level, although that is very funny.

Shout out of Shrek. But I, that's just sort of the conversation of like, I like Bud Clark more than I like Genesis Smith in that conversation, even more so than Kaelin Bullock in that conversation. Bug Clark will come down and hit. He's just slender of a player. He's got to gain a little bit more weight. And then like you mentioned, it's just those really bad plays that we got to get rid of.

if we just eliminate the really bad plays, then I think you're getting a safety who can be an impactful player for you, get a starting shot in the NFL someday. So, yeah, that's where I'm out of both Clark as well. So we have, let's see who we have left here. Before we get to it. Oh, boy. Before we get to it. Folks, we are on the campaign, the stampede, the charge, the pilgrimage to 75K

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agree more. Put that on a shirt. Ain't that the truth? Put that on the shirt. John Tyson. Uh, one through five. Let's get through it. Yep, fire away.

Let's see the fathead drop right down the board. There it is. Trading Stukes at number five. Oh my gosh. You, you're my favorite. You're the man. Are we same zies? No, no, no.

You're, you're more bold than I am. You're more bullish on A.J. Halsey, my boy, than I am. I did. I actually definitely stole your honest. honor here. No, I couldn't, I couldn't be happier.

My heart is swelling with pride. Finally, dropped a new big board for NBC today, a top 50. I ended up having AJ Halsey as player 27 in this trip. I just, you go through it. And you're like,

I'm not that high in a butt. I'm like, so he said stolen valor. Stolen valor. Man, I don't. know what else people want kind of situation from him okay he's not running a four three i get it but should we just have the halsey conversation right now i guess we're kind of jump yeah yeah yeah we might

as well do it yeah yeah and then we got to talk about even warry because the chat's very split on uh not even worry i keep doing i keep doing that this is going to be a problem on draft night i see em w my brain just says e man worry just say that's you're going to do it on draft night I'm going to do it on draft night sadly. Sadly, at least you're letting everyone know now. It's a PR move. Get out in front of it. Need Herbert said,

does Trev think Halsey's a UDFA? See how it turns? By the way, it's going to happen to me with McNeil Warren. My favorite day two player in the draft, now I'm low on him. Now you're low on him. Yeah, now you think he's,

now you think he's draftable, but you know, beyond that, who knows? So Halsey, Mr. Gimmey that, eight interceptions over the last. last two years. A very fitting nickname. This is an NFL body. He came in at 2.15 at the Combine to run the 4-5, but he played at 220, 222 this year.

I mean, this dude is dense, and he utilizes that frame to just knock the absolute crap out of people, dude. It's, but he's not, I saw, like, I posted one of his hits and people were like, well, you better wrap up at the next level of that. I'm like, no, no, no. he understands, he understands, I think, when to wrap up. I think his mistackles are from the lack of length. When he misses a tackle, it's more due to lack of length.

It's not that he doesn't know how to come to balance, but through the air is why this guy is safety three for me. Excellent ball production. He is an elite anticipator of routes with excellent instincts. like play development in front of him, he can jump on a, and it's a lot of it is in the mental preparation. Yes,

some of it is natural gifts, but I had him walk me through his process the entire week. It's like, okay, I look at what they do on third and longs. Then I look at what they do on third and longs in this formation. Then I look at what they do.

And on second and short, I look at what they do in this formation. I mean, he must be on PFF Ultimate, like running filters his entire day. He just, his preparation is so insanely detailed that he understands exactly what the offense is trying to do all the time. That's why you see him jump middle of the field throws. When he knows he's not going to get to the ball, he quickly flips off in his brain like, okay, I'm not going to do the Bud Clark, jump it and potentially miss it.

I'm just going to blow you up with the shoulder to the chest. Right. He can distinguish when it's time to do that. And when you try to throw the screen game in this guy, he will absolutely detonate your blockers. Like he wants to put your blockers on the floor and make the stop. Why he's not going to go in the first round as much as, you know, we really like him. Average vertical speed, I'd say maybe mediocre. Yep.

I think the mistackle rate is a little high and it goes back to the length for me. And then I think he's a roaming safety. We're talking about a lot of players that could man coverage matchup kind of guy. That's not A.J. Halsey. Not every defense is going to love A.J. Halsey. But I think one that has the right fit for him, this ball production, to me, Trevor, is going to carry over at the next level. If you put him in a defense that gives you the ability to allow him to just be a robber safety over the middle of the field,

we're talking about an all-pro player. We are. If you're putting him in a defense where he's playing a strong safety role, but that role also asks him to play in man coverage a lot or slot responsibilities, he's going to be frustrating for you. To me, I don't say that to say like he's a scheme dependent player, but scheme and fit unlocks his full ceiling, which I think can not only be a starting caliber,

but also like an impact player. I really do believe that. I love the fact that this dude hits like a Mack truck. The interceptions that he has, man, it's a highlight reel. Sometimes you get these safeties where they're interceptions, their takeaways, or gifts. This dude's earning it. This dude wants it.

He sees things. he anticipates things, especially over the middle of the field. He plays with such a swagger and a confidence and anticipation and just competitiveness that I absolutely love. I absolutely love players like this. And like you said, the drawbacks are, I think he's a little stiff when changing direction. Of course he is, he's 220 pounds. Right. The arm length when it comes to overall tackling consistency is there for him.

And man coverage. I think any time you line him up in. man coverage. I think it's going to be tough for him unless he can really bully a wide receiver off of his breaks, off of his routes, and be able to get hands on him. So there are drawbacks for him. Again, if you play him in a defense where you like your safeties to be able to rotate down and play and match in like man coverage, like when a wide receiver's on one side of the line of scrimmage and they're rotating to the other side pre-snap and like the safety's will like move up and down. So now all of a sudden, Hals, he's got to cover somebody in man coverage closer to the

line scrimmage. I don't know how many times you're going to like the result there. But you let him play too high. You let him play deep. The players in front of them are kind of figuring out how they're going to match and move and all that. And you just let him read and react. You're going to get a really good safety because his anticipation, his instincts, his ball skills, and his power over the middle of the field are excellent. I like this player a lot.

I understand some limitations that he has, but get this guy on my football team. Yeah, all day. Yeah, definitely a little bit of like can kind of change the tone of the back end of your defense. I think his energy is a little infectious as well. You kind of want him in that room setting the tone and kind of leading that group. I think that's a really big intangible with Halsey. Yeah, I would agree. And then Nikki Man Worry, so I've...

You're kidding, right? Connor, I wasn't. That is actually unbelievable. Someone needs to study my brain, and by that I mean... I mean, give me a lobotomy. It was so seamless. Nicky Emanuel from Toledo. Yeah, all right.

Let's work on this. Say the name of the player and then do the scatterboard. But do it slowly. Emmanuel. Yeah. One by one. Don't do the hyphenated in a row. Emmanuel one.

McNeil. Yeah. Tyler Warren. God. What? No. No. Oh, Emmanuel McNeil Warren from DBU, Toledo, Senior, 6'4-3-3-8s, 99th percentile in height,

209 pounds 61st percentile in weight, large lad playing on the back end at the safety level. There's a lot of things to like about him. You know, he plays a lot in coverage, and he's aggressive in coverage, and he's got some good takeaways. But I actually categorized him as more of a box safety, because I feel as though when he's allowed to trigger downhill, that to me is where I feel like he has a lot of value. Nine career forced fumbles.

Absolutely love that from him. He is a springy athlete, especially when it comes to being in a linear sense, which in a linear sense, you get more opportunities to prove that when you are coming downhill. So again, that's why I like him a little bit deeper and then just being that sort of like downhill type of safety. I like that a lot for him. But he does have some good fluidity and explosive. and is for a player that is almost six foot four.

The slender build is, you know, you could tell just like how tall he is, how it's just, it's not a super dense build. But man, I felt like he could, he could bring the pain as a hitter. I mean, he can really lower the shoulder and give you some power over the middle. I think he's a bowl at the catch point. Like he is just going up and getting it and trying to moss the receivers themselves when that ball was in the air. He's got good, what does he got?

Six career interceptions, I believe. from him. You see the coverage grades from him over the last two years. 88.4 is a free safety, 85.6 in the box, 86.6.6.2 run defense grade as well. The forced and completion rate is high. The mistackle rate is 65th percent high, which is fantastic. I believe he had the highest wins above replacement average over the last two years of any safety, not named Caleb Downs. To me, he's just a true playmaker. And his, to me, the cons on, on Emmanuel McNeil Warren. Just take a deep breath and then say, yep.

Are sort of similar to how we talk about Bud Clark. They're just not as pronounced as Clarks are, and the highs are much higher or more frequently high than Bud Clarks were. Like McNeil Warren gives you forced fumbles. He gives you past breakups. He gives you interceptions. He gives you some impactful play in that regard. But then, of course, there's these times where he's over a,

aggressive or the instincts betray him a little bit or the pursuit angle is a little bit over aggressive with him. So you got to hone that in a little bit. But in terms of sealing, what this guy can be, I do think it's a first round caliber safety prospect. Yeah, I mean, his build is insane. And the peanut punch, like, it's such a violent strike on the ball that he's mastered where it looks like Toledo gives up a big play.

And all of a sudden, he just comes out of nowhere and knocks the ball out. And he does this consistently. So when you watch him fire downhill against screens in the outside run game, at that size, the ground he can cover, but then the violence that he plays with, it's a lot of fun to watch. He uses size, he uses length at the catch point.

Guys that go over the middle think twice with him because he will lay a hit that kind of says like, okay, I dare you to come back over the middle again and guys hesitate. What do you got, Trevor? The chat is cooking. Peter said the compass email and Worry. and we're going to fight. The second I see, Peter, it's on site.

At the live show, whenever the live show is, it's on site for that, Peter. Here's one of the weird things. And a good friend of the show, John Ledyard, actually pointed this out to me at our great Fogo dinner. And I definitely noticed it on tape. Have you seen the plays where he's not ready because he's putting his mouthpiece in? It's not one play. it's every time before the snap. Okay, let's diagnose this.

What could be the issue here? I just, and like, Is the mouthpiece too small? That can't be it. You know how, you know you're an insane athlete when the ball is snapped and you're in the middle of trying to put your mouthpiece in and you're starting to move

while trying to put your mouthpiece in and you still get to the ball. But it's like if the mouthpiece was just in, would you have killed that guy or intercepted the ball? I'm telling you this is a real thing. Toledo fans will probably back me up on this. I don't know if he just was bored of the level of football he played at

because he dominated at his position. But it is one of the wildest quirks I've seen in this draft class because it's all the time, all the time. I'm going to have to ask John which game specifically he remembers that that happens and I'm going to go back and watch it. Yeah, it's a constant thing that is going to be very interesting to see if it carries over to league. Obviously, I hope it doesn't. Another, you know, another guy that once again, like, he will stare at the backfield a little long and lose sight over him.

He's a lunger at times. When he lines up big hits up top, that's different. But in space, he could be a lunger and miss tackles. Toledo fans, you mean LeBron? No, isn't LeBron an Ohio State fan? Yeah. Yeah, LeBron is an Ohio State Yankees fan that plays for the Lakers. He is a Browns fan, so he gets credit for that.

Yeah, but he's not. he probably likes the Cowboys No, I'll pull up a There are images of him In Jerry World's games with the hat on on the sideline Yes, yes, yes, yes Yeah LeBron is a, LeBron's a bandwagon fan

Yeah, that's what he is That's what he is All right, um, trading Stukes Oh yeah, talk to the people Yeah, I'll go over Stukes Who also would have been right here for me He would have been, I can't remember five or six, but he would have been right here for me as well.

Yes, Stukes is number one really great story. Sixth year player at Arizona. That's why I see the 24 age. From walk on to team captain level player. Pretty sick story. Former high school triple jump state champion trained Stukes. Yeah. It helps.

And then you have a 38 inch vertical, 1010 broad, 43340. I'm assuming he has 32 inch. arms because the combine could not measure arm length this year and he had 31 and three quarters. This is someone to me that he, okay, so the torn ACL in 2024 definitely was one of the setbacks as why he's a late breakout. Age needs context. Some guys are late breakout.

Some guys have an obstacle that kind of delays it. So I think that's a key thing to kind of go into here. He's someone to me that can really, really transition to being in. a free safety at the NFL level. I know some people look at him. He almost has corner like ability. And Trevor, you're evaluating him as a slot corner, correct? I am evaluating him as a nickel defender.

But if I had to put him in a box of safety or corner, I would put him in the safety box. I would have had him here. I think his skills translate perfectly to being a true free safety. He's got great in-game speed. He has excellent recovery. speed and coverage. The ball skills are starting to ramp up.

You see the four interceptions this year. Unlike his teammate, where Genesis Smith does a lot of amazing things in coverage, Stukes is a madman going downhill against screens and wants in on the action and wants to tackle and throw his body around. So I think that, you know, we played a lot of slot. Like we talked about, some of the shiftier guys were able to separate from him,

probably at his height. He comes in a little out of control and high as a tackler where he'll fall off the shoulders of a ball carrier when he just needs to come in lower. And then once again brought up like a little older with a torn ACL in 2024. But I like this player a lot, Trevor. He just has range. The green light for the ball skills is turning on right now. He's got speed.

He's got translatable athleticism. I love the demeanor. I think there's a story. year where like nothing's been handed to him and he's had to earn every second of being the guy on this team. He just feels like an NFL free safety to me. Yeah, I think this is a really good football player. I do. I like trading Stukes a lot. The combine from him was incredible. I mean, a 433, I didn't see that coming from him. That's 98th percentile for safeties. One five, 10 yards splits, 92nd percentile, vertical jump of 38 inches, 79 percentile.

I mean, he's a, he's, he's a special athlete. I did not think that that was coming from him. But what was he officially listed at? I'll tell you him one sec. He was 6-1-190, I believe. Okay, so 6.1-19. He was a little bit smaller than what he was listed. But also, he probably was like, if I have come in at 1-190.

I'm going to run a 4-33. Yeah, that was. I'm sure his football weight is 200 pounds. Yeah, so could be something like that. But no, this is a good football player. I like him. I like him a lot as a nickel defender. I think he is right there and sort of that,

I don't know if he's going to get picked in the second round, but like second, third round type of a, type of a projection for him. I could see him being a starter at the NFL level, especially now that that speed is confirmed for him. You mentioned it's a great story for him to get to this point, going from a walk on to a team captain. You got the ACL injury, the end. anticipation is still improving with him.

But you mentioned the ball skills, hopefully, are trending in the right direction with him getting more anticipation there. And if I had to, yeah, if I had to say corner or safety, I would definitely say safety for him because I think he could play really well in space. And I like how aggressive he is a slot defender, which is something that I wish. Like him and Jalen Kilgore to me are very much like, they're sort of right next to each other because they play a little bit differently. I think Kilgore plays a little bit stronger like towards the line of scrimmage and run defense. that's not to say that Stoaks can't do that as well but Stox's more aggressive in coverage

I wish Kilgore was really more I wish he was more aggressive in coverage but I like Kilgore more than you do it it sounds like anyway I thought Kilgore got caught ball watching too much where Stukes was just obsessed with being in on the action like obsessive about like I need to be in on this play

every single time I'm rallying where Kilgore was like ah those guys are going to get there I'm okay and it's just I didn't love that. So what about the first, the top two guys here? Like Dylan Theanman, Caleb Downs. I think that when you start with Theanmen, what I love the most about Dylan Theanman from Oregon is I felt like he had fantastic coverage tape when he was at Purdue.

His freshman year when he was at Purdue, they put him in those single high, free safety alignments a lot. And actually they put, they put them all over the place when he was on the back end of Purdue at his freshman year. And he was a ball hawk. He was all over the place, elite PFF coverage grade that freshman year. His sophomore year, they sort of like put him in some weird coverage alignments where... It seems as a mess sophomore year.

Yeah, I mean, they just were asking him to do stuff that was not really going to be impactful. And then he goes to Oregon. And not that he didn't have this in him, but he got to showcase it a lot more. The tackling from depth from him was incredible. I mean, we saw at the Combine, what a great athlete he was. Not just explosiveness, but fluidity, everything from him. He is just a top tier athlete. And you want to see that from him at a smaller size, right?

He was six foot one and an eighth, which is 39th percentile. Weight was 200 pounds, 29th percentile, arm length, 31 and 3 eighths, 42nd percentile. So he's smaller for a safety, so you want to see him be more athletic, but he absolutely is more athletic. What I love about him, though, is that he is just so reliable. He will, he will be 25 yards off the ball. And if he sees a screen is happening or if it's a toss play to the outside, he is screaming downhill and making fundamental tackles at the line of scrimmage with his shoulder at full speed wrapping these guys up.

And you just, you don't have a lot of safeties that have both coverage range and run defense range with that much dependability. And to me, Dylan Thineman is that type of a player. I think he is a complete safety. I think he is worthy of a top 12 overall pick. And he should be considered like that. Yeah, man. One thing I want to, I saw Desert Cactus in the chat say, wow, Stoaks is, he was like,

Stoogs above EMW. No, we just went out of order. I'll read the safety rankings at the end. Stooges was five for me. We just went back to him. Thineman, you nailed it. I mean, I really don't have a lot to add to it. I thought his eye discipline was a plus.

Like his, the way he roams over the top with his eye discipline and instincts is at such a pro level that it's hard for him. He just doesn't make mistakes, but he's such a great athlete that he's not playing a safe brand of football, like a conservative, scared brand of safety. Like, you know, like, I just got to be in the right spot and nothing over me. It's like, no, I'm going to make sure nothing, no one gets over the top, but I can pounce on these outside the number throws. Yes. That changed the game. And then you brought up, he's not the biggest safety in the world. And I agree. If there's anything that I kind of want to poke holes at here, he'll end up on the ground game more than you'd like because of that size. But he's He's 21.

I think he's going to get bigger and stronger that he'll be at least average in that area while being so far above average as a roaming coverage safety. And he does do a good job playing in control and coming to balance as a tackler where if he's just a little stronger, he'll be a really, really good tackler

with that added strength. So this is why Thineman has rose in this draft to being a top 20 pick. Yeah, I'm with you. I think that he's, I think he's awesome. I think he's smart. He's an athlete. He's dependable.

He's got great fundamentals. And to top it all off, what you just mentioned, Thineman wants to make the play. Yes. He wants to make the play. And he has the athleticism, the football IQ, and then the fundamentals to fall back on to be able to do that time and time and time again. So Thetaman is awesome.

Before we dig into Caleb Downs, really quick, Big Chito gave us a $50 super channel. Oh, hello. They're big Cheeto. We're going to be reading most of the time. the super chats here in the after the episode portion of the show, but wanted to shout this one out. He said, what's up, little Cheetos. Let's see what you did there. Well, he is Big Cheetos, so respect.

Just want to say, I greatly appreciate y'all and the others. You guys have inspired me to go to school and into sports broadcasting. I wonder if y'all have any helpful tips or any advice. Love you guys. Stay cheesy out there. Big Cheeto. Well, Big Chito, we love hearing that. It's really cool that we could inspire you in such a big way to think about going

after a career in sports broadcasting. I'll tell you the same advice that I kind of like tell a lot of other people who tell me kind of like how to get it in this business. Try a lot of different stuff because there's a lot of different stuff when it comes to sports broadcasting. You could be in front of the camera. You could be, you know, like a podcaster. You could be a YouTuber.

You want to do TV shows, all that kinds of stuff. Or you could be behind the scenes. You could be in a video editor. You know, you can want to be like the great Tyler Cook that we have behind the chef behind the scenes, right? Let me like you could want to do sound production or video production or social media or things like that. Try and try a lot of different stuff and think about what you really love the most,

go after that. Because if you go after that, it's going to be the thing that'll get you to go back time and time again. And it'll make you the most competitive about wanting to get better and wanting to, you know, really be able to work to be the best version of whatever that is that you possibly can be. But very happy for you. Hopefully we give you some good advice here with this question. but obviously make sure that you're checking back in with the addicts and keeping us up on your journey. So we appreciate you, Big Chito.

Great advice, Trev, and really, really important advice because you got to learn what you love in this and then you'll go be great at it. If you just think you love something and then you're stuck in it and you're like, oh, man, maybe I don't love this. That's how people kind of get caught up years down the line. And there's just so many ways to go about this. You talk about the genius behind the camera that we have and Mr. Cook. You know, you and I are fortunate enough to do this in front of the camera, but there's so many,

like, man, when I walk in the camera, you know, when I walk in the camera, NBC every day too. It's one of those things where there's just so many different important people in different roles that love what they do that you don't see every day on on entertainment or in front of the camera. But you know, you could be a studio designer. You could be a production manager. I mean, there's just, so figure out what you love and then you'll be great at it. And hopefully, you know, we get to hear how that concludes as well. We love seeing, you know, people that say, I've been listening to you guys and I just graduated or stuff like that. Or my last bit of advice, become an auditor and take down Big Tux Corporation or fraud.

Great advice. Yes, yeah. Look into them. Ask why the Tux has to be back. Almost dropped an F bomb. The day after the wedding. Everybody's hung over, tired. The store is nowhere near the venue.

It's a soaking beer-soaked trash bag that stinks. You can get it back on Monday morning. You don't need it back Sunday morning. I'd love to know. If you figure that out, I'll send back that $50. Plus, I'll match it. I'll give you a super chat.

Perfect advice. Wonderful advice to wrap it up. I think that the conversation for Caleb Downs, who we both have as our number one overall safety, can be kicked off here with this super chat here from Doombuggy 420. $10 super chat. Why is Caleb Downs getting so much hate since he was a true friend? freshman, he was the best DB in the country. Am I wrong?

Connor, I think it's a really good way to have our final conversation here about this prospect because we don't need to talk to people about Caleb Downs. You know who Caleb Downs is at this point. He's a safety at Ohio State. He's a little undersized, but he's been an absolute all-American type of player since the moment that he showed up at Alabama. He started as a true freshman as a safety in Nick Sabin's defense, which nobody does. I mean, so few people started true freshmen for Nick Saban in his,

defense. He transfers to Ohio State doesn't lose a beat, hits the ground running, all American. This past year, I don't know if he got All-American, but he probably should have again, as the best safety in the country, probably for the last three years running. The conversation with Caleb Downs is, where do you draft him? What do you think about this player? Where are the limitations? And are the limitations so much that you would not take him in the top 10, where he is likely going to be as a consensus, top 10, top 5, maybe even top three overall player. Yeah, man, there's a little fatigue here with Caleb Downs.

I think there's, you know what a big thing of it is for him as well? Mm-hmm. When you have even, like as anyone, but especially as teammates, put on these super stardom testing shows at the combine that people gravitate to. Mm-hmm. And that's not him, right? He's not, he doesn't measure in at 6-2, 220, 4-440, 4-40. 44 inch vertical.

Like, he's just a great football player. He's not a bad athlete by any means of that. But this isn't, this part of the process is not what's going to draw people to Caleb Downs. Behind the scenes, he will. He prepares and carries himself like a true professional. Very intense kind of personality. Incredibly smart.

I mean, the awareness of play development is, it's as good as it gets for college safety. Trevor, there was just a play that Minnesota tried to run a leak play against them and they really thought they could hide the tight end and he's just all over it.

The tight end slips out. He runs 30 plus yards down the field to them. He plays the pass better than the tight end can play the pass. And I'm just like, that's never fooling this guy. You're never going to have those breakdowns with this guy in your defense.

He wants to hit. He wants to be physical coming up to the line of scrimmage. He wants to explode. through blockers, screens, outside runs. I think the ball production can honestly go up a couple notches at the next level. He's close on a lot of plays. And it seems like there are some times where he's in the right place and he almost

opts to going the safer route rather than like, dude, you could take away the football. You have the ability to do that. So I'm wondering if that kind of flips for such a young player, if that flips at the next level, then people are like, oh man, now the ball production is even higher. But there's just not a lot of things to poke holes at with Caleb Downs. He's such a good player at three levels of the field and an absolute general on the back end of your defense. Louis in the chat saying it reminds me of Antoine Winfield Jr.

That's been my comp for Caleb Downs since the summer. I think that's really good. That's been my comp since the summer because Antoine Winfield Jr. is not the biggest safety. He's not the fastest safety. He ran a pretty good 40 of a 4-4-5, but I think the Caleb. Downs can run a four, four, five. You know, I think that that's the type of athlete that we're talking about here. Is he a four three guy?

No, but I think he can run as good as you need him to to make those plays that we've seen over the last three seasons. The pros that I have for him, field general on the back end, understands coverage, leverages, advantages when he's playing in the slot. He chops his feet when approaching to tackle to stay on his toes for all sorts of juke moves, so his mistackle percentage is low, high pursuit IQ, shoulders always stay square with where he's hitting. Great downhill acceleration and speed. Excellent tackler in space or in clutter. Very high coverage IQ.

Good route recognition. You talked about that play against the tight end. He totally erases. He does that a ton. Not afraid to take on lead blockers if that is what's best for that specific play. I think he's got great hands and eye coordination to play the ball when it's in the air. And I agree he could even get more aggressive to make even more plays. I would draft Caleb Downs in the top five.

Yes. I would draft Caleb Downs. the top five. I think that the floor for him should be 10 at the Bengals. I think it might, I think it sounds like it's more likely that Caleb Downs gets drafted somewhere between seven and 12 than it does him in the top five. But this will be a top three player for me when it's all said and done. I gave him an all pro level grade and he might still end up as the number one overall prospect in this class for me. Yeah, he was number two on my big board, only behind Jeremiah I love.

It speaks to not only the pro-ready nature, but just the stability he brings, that he's good at so many different things. He's physical. He's just one of this, like, even if he's an average athlete, he's so smart, it makes him a great athlete on the field. That's, he's, his awareness and recognition skills and processing is so far ahead of everybody else. It feels like every time he steps on the field. It was interesting, Trev.

We have two of the best players in this class. That's kind of their calling card in him and Fernando Mendoza. What? Their mental processing. Oh, totally. Right? Like they're, this is a, this is a, when you get to the NFL level, it's mental as much as it is physical. Right.

And that's how him and Mendoza win on different. sides of the ball and I just thought it's been interesting to watch. Somebody said in the chat, they were like, hey, top five is kind of rough for Antoine Winfield Jr. One, I think that's Antoine Winfield Jr. disrespect. I don't even say that as a Bucks fan. Two years ago, Anthony Winfield Jr. Oh, yeah, he's been an all pro before. Yeah. But like two years ago when Kyle Hamilton won defensive player of the year, Kyle Hamilton was deserving to potentially win defensive player of the year. I'm not saying that. Antoine Winfield Jr. had a better resume than him that year.

in a lot of areas. So he could have been, I mean, this is a defensive player of the year type of player. What? Also, not to get too technical here, Winfield was 5'9.

Like, Caleb Downs is six feet tall and it's probably going to play it 210, 215. What's when, but Winfield was like 205. 59, 203. Yeah. So I mean,

so like, if you said bigger Antoine Winfield, everyone's like, whoa. What? Everybody loves. Everyone loves the Super Mario Mushroom version of any player. Like, whoa, okay.

It's so true. I'm going to start throwing that around with like, I'm going to be like, he's a supersized like Markell Bell. You know, and people are going to be like, what? What? So he's Steve Palazzo. Oh, man, supersized Markel Bell is hard to, hard to operate in the brain. By the way, Peter, Caleb Downs also reminds me of Nicky Manwari. He does.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think you're going to escape the cold open next week. No, it's, we actually, we had a couple of cold open candidates here on this one. Yeah. Somebody said in the chat that we were clip farming, and that's not correct at all, we don't post clips of this podcast very often. Yeah, right. We called Open Farm.

Yeah, you guys are supposed to make the clips. Yeah, we don't, we don't make the clips. We make the content. That's all we want people to come to the YouTube channel, if not watch the show live, which is the most preferred route. Watch the show in entirety. Look, also, hell yeah, I'm clip farming. I'm trying to get you're in this for

What do you have a nuanced conversation I'm trying to know I'm trying to get rich That's what we're trying to do here I love my wife So much So much That you you had to back pedal on your Jalen Kilgore Conversation

You're like Who are you? All right your top tens Re-re-out the top tens Before we get out of here My top ten Imagine if I had one All right here we go

VJ Payne from Kansas State was 10 Jalen Kilgore from the great University of South Carolina at number nine. Eight, Zaki Wheatley from Penn State. Seven, Keontes Scott from Miami, six, Bud Clark from TCU, five, Trade and Stoaks from Arizona. Four, Emmanuel McNeil Warren at a Toledo.

Three, AJ Halsey from LSU, two, Dylan Theanneman from Oregon. And number one, Caleb Downs from Ohio State. You almost switched up with Emmanuel McEllivan. Neil Warren. I know you did. You said it's slow, but you almost, you almost switched up there. Emmanuel Worry. I don't have Emmanuel Worry. Without grading Jalen Kilgore, Kiante Scott, or Trayden Stukes here on this list because I did that. I think they would have been five, six and seven. Colesnewski from Texas Tech at my number 10. Nine is Lewis Moore from

Indiana. Eight, VJ Payne from Kansas State, who might be a corner. Bud Clark at number seven from TCU. Camari Ramsey, we don't want him in the slot from USC. Number five, Zaki Wheatley from Penn State. For AJ Halsey from LSU. Three, Immanuel McNeil-Hyfin Warren. Come a long way. From DBU, Toledo. Number two, Dylan Theanman, and number one, Caleb Downes.

We appreciate you guys. Hopefully the safety episode was worth the wait. We would love to hear from you guys as well. Let us know who your top safeties are in the class. We'd love to hear your takes on our takes. We'd love to hear your safety lists. All that kinds of good stuff. Best way to do that, of course, is in the YouTube comments.

If your audio only, you could hit us up on Twitter, Instagram. all that great stuff at NFLSC show at Tampa Bay Trey at Connor J. Rogers. Next week, we are in theory supposed to start the collab mock draft series. Yeah, we just got to book some guess. But we've got to reach out to our friends. You got to collab with someone to do a collab mock draft. It's just me and me. It's just my schizophrenic mock draft, which kind of happens anytime we do a mock anyways.

But hopefully we're starting to co-lab mock series on. Monday. The seven-round charity Marathon Mock Draft we announced is April. Shoot, is it 14th or 13? I think it's 14th. 14th. That is April 14th. That is a Tuesday. We're starting at noon on a weekday. So make sure you got a second screen up at work. Actually, second screen for your work. First screen goes to us. Yeah, no. People understand. Spreadsheets on the second screen at the accounting firm. First screen is NFL SC. We've got about 50 hats. which you guys can see on the Shopify store. For all of you that bought hats,

I am shipping them off tomorrow. So we had like the first shipping of like 300 of them. And now we have another 100 that I'm sending off tomorrow. So if you bought a hat and it's been a little bit, I promise it is coming to you. We're shipping it off tomorrow. And then we've got about 50 hats left.

We're on the road to 75K subscribers here on the YouTube channel. We would love for you guys to be subscribed, become one of the draft addicts, the NFLSE addicts, and rejoin us every single time that we go live because we have a good time around here. Connor, anything else before we get? Audio only is getting absolutely shalacked in the chat right now. What happened? Misfit said dial up internet equals audio

only class clowns said imagine being audio. Imagine being audio only. Hey, some people got commutes. We can't encourage people to watch the show on the commute. I'm a big audio podcast guy, so I'm literally clowning myself, but I enjoyed it. We love people that watch the video. We love people that listen to the show. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you guys. We love everybody. Yeah, it's about it. Goodbye. Appreciate everybody watching and listening to the show for The Chef. Tyler Cook, behind the scenes,

produced and everything for Connor Rogers and Trevor Sigma saying, thank you guys so much once again for watching. Stick around as I will answer all of the super chats I possibly can here in the after-the-episode portion of the show. And until next week, we'll see you guys next week.