NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - Final Edge and DT Rankings

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers give you their top 20s for the DT and Edge position in the 2025 NFL Draft. What changed from their early rankings in December, and plenty of talk about where these players fit

Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL stock exchange show presented by arena. The sports super app that combines DFS, social media and sports news all into one place that you guys can find over on the app store. I'm Trevor Sikamot. That is Connor Rogers. We're not the positional ranking episode here on the program. Say we're getting back to the trenches. It's defensive line. We have talked about how deep this defensive line class is when we did our

early edge rush rankings and our early interior defensive line rankings. I think we only did our top 10. Maybe we did our top 15 stop 12s today. We got top 20 for both of them. top 10 and top 20 interior defensive lineman top 20 edge rushers Very excited to dig into it, especially with the depth guys Connor. How you doing my friend, man? You get 40 players on this show today. That is a lot packed into one show. I'm excited man It's that time of year finalizing rankings These are really really deep groups I mean, honestly both of them interior defensive line and the edge

pass rushers are really deep groups. So a lot to go through here and I'm ready to roll. Is the heart and soul is the meat and cheese of the 2025 NFL draft. But it's a meat and cheese or meat and potatoes. I guess both are good. Yeah. I was going to say I could, I could roll with either one. I just don't know what it is.

I suppose meat and potatoes is more of the full meal that the phrase is going for. Yeah, like what you actually have for dinner where meat and cheese is kind of like, you know, what people have with wine they pick at. That's true. Hey, that could be us. Wait a second. I'm not above that. I'm not above that.

I'll put right up the rankings. There's some charcuterie right in front of you, you know? Pepperoni, all kinds of stuff. Yeah. A little brie. No, brie's amongst the elites of cheeses. 100%. It is.

Don't be afraid, people. It looks a little funky on the platter, but it's the good stuff. No, you gotta get into it. You gotta get in. Brie cheese is actually what got me into the charcuterie game. And we actually have to stop talking about this

because I'm starving. We're doing this right before we're about to eat dinner. So I'm gonna go crazy. But we actually, we need a fancy NFL SE night. Like that glass of wine while we're recording. Like together. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're sitting there. There is, I have a lot of great- Welcome to the candlelit mock draft. I have so many ideas for us to do shows together, on the yacht, the candlelit charcuterie night. There's so many ways we could go about that. It'd be hilarious. But here we are, both in our home offices,

like two idiots we are, doing top 20s. You'd have to break out your wedding tux for that one. Oh, absolutely. It's the only thing I'd unpack it for. The only thing. It's probably just disgusting still, just sitting packed up from wedding night, but I'll break it out for that.

Wait, have you dry cleaned it yet? I think I got my tux clean, but I don't think, like the shirt, I was like, I would never wear this shirt again, because it's a white shirt. Yeah. So it's your wedding night, like you're soaked through it. And it's not the type of dress shirt that you'd wear

like you're doing television or under a suit. It's a really a one time only thing. But I didn't throw out the shirt because it's my wedding night. Of course, right, right. So like that's the one. It's the game of worn jersey. Yeah, exactly.

It's the game of worn jersey. You gotta frame it. Exactly right. The tux is fine. The tux is clean. That's good to go because I will wear maybe wear my tux again. I don't know. But the white shirt is it's not the best. I'll Jersey swap with someone out there if they want.

If you have your white shirt from your wedding and we ever have an NFL SC event, I will. I will white wedding shirt swap with you at the event. I'm just looking for a reason to get rid of mine. I would cry if that ever happened. Now more than ever, we need to do a meet and greet live podcast so somebody can bring their button down shirt for the wedding jersey swap. That's unbelievable. That's, that's unbelievable.

That is, it's not going to get better of an intro than that. So let's just get right into it. We're getting right into the positional rankings here. Do you want to do edge or do you want to do interior defensive line? You have a calling. Is your heart heavy on one of these positions to start here? You can't go wrong. They're so deep.

Let's go into your defensive line and work our way out, I guess. OK, that makes that makes sense. It's like an OCD aspect of my brain working right now. Hey, game starts up front, baby. The closer you are to the ball, the more it matters. So we've talked about this here on this program before. I'm sort of in the process of getting a little bit more contextual with how I have certain positions.

Interior defensive line is one of them. So I have these positions broken up into three different categories. I have nose tackles, three technique defensive tackles, and then three, four defensive ends. I would categorize all of them as the interior defensive line, but each one of those sort of needs a little bit more emphasis in certain areas than the other to succeed at the NFL level. Now, I brought those all together just for the sake of this show to give you the top 20 sort of in that order. But as we go on with the show, I'll probably reference kind of where I have, you know, this player, which position that I have them at. So we'll go, we'll go from 20

to one, sort of save the suspense for the end, but we kind of know who the top guys are. We'll spend most of our time here talking about some of the guys that are really from 10 to 20, but Connor, I'll have you start. You wanna just go by fives? You wanna go by tens here and then just point it out?

We could rip through tens and we could stop wherever we need to. Okay, that sounds good to me. And I love that you brought that up. You know, for all you young bucks out there, anyone trying to get into scouting, something that's helped me that Trevor just highlighted is, at the end of my scouting report,

I try to make the last line, this player fits in a four man front as a defensive end. This player's a three, four. Like, some guys are scheme versatile. You're right, Trevor. Really. It's something that we are trying to get better at on this show with slots, you know, outside corners, free safety, strong safeties.

And it helps us predict where these guys are going to go. That's why. Yeah. Right. So it's like we, I want to get a little bit deeper into us covering like round two and round three next year. I think we'll be able to do it because summer scouting, we were able to get a lot deeper on these prospects than before. And really, we talk about the first round guys a lot because a lot of people out there

who are draft fans, they really want to know who's going to impact their team the most. And it's often those first round guys. But the core players for you are second, third, fourth, fifth round guys and scheme fit matters a lot for them. So we do want to try to do a better job continuing to make sure that we're referencing that as we talk about these players and really either introduce them to you guys or start to break down, Hey, this is where I think that they really fit.

So with that being said, let's go 20 to 11. And then, and I'll probably point out a couple of guys. I'd like to have some conversations about in there. It's wild. The players I had to leave out in both groups looking at it, but maybe we'll have some time to talk about those guys or we'll talk about them when your team drafts them 20 for me was a Neas Peoples from Virginia Tech. He was 21 for me.

So that's funny. Man, he was just outside my top 20. We should have a combo about him because he is fascinating. 19 was Cam Horsley from Boston College. Big run stuffer. Okay. The player I really do like a lot. 18, a player that I just don't like at all.

And I almost left him outside my top 20, but you just, you default back to size and measurable so much with Dion Walker from Kentucky. 17, Ty Hamilton from Ohio State. Oh, I didn't watch Ty Hamilton. You definitely should before the draft because he's a lot better than the numbers indicate. Okay, all right. Yeah, he, in a normal class, he would be lot better than the numbers indicate. OK, all right. OK, yeah, he in a normal class, he would be ranked higher than this.

But there's just a lot of good players, which brings me to 16 CJ West from Indiana, who you were the first person that ever brought up CJ West to me. He did a lot of great things for that program this year, and I know he was a shrine guy. That leads me to 15. year and I know he was a shrine guy. That leads me to 15. Vernon Broughton from Texas at Texas front just has NFL talent. Dude, I know, man. I, it was, who are we watching first?

Uh, Alfred Collins. I think Alfred Collins was like all the rage. He was the first guy on the Texas defensive line. And then he'd go like, well, hold on. What about, uh, Vernon Broad? All right. Hold on. What about Baron Sorrell? And you're like, well, hold on. What about Vernon Broadden? All right, hold on. What about Baron Sorrell?

And you're like, okay. Just a factory over there. Nuts. So Broadden was 15, 14 was Ty Robinson. I know the first time we talked, D-line, a lot of the comments were like, what about Ty Robinson? Listen, I hear you people for sure. And he had a really big combine as well.

13, Camp Jackson from Florida. It just ain't. Let's go baby. Powerhouse run stuffing nose tackle. Let's go. Yeah. Cam Jackson, I was very high on when I got to him. I had not gotten to him the first time we did this position group.

Number 12, Joshua Farmer from Florida state. We've talked about him before. One of the bright spots on a tough year for the Seminoles. And then 11 was Omar Norman Lott, the pass rusher from Tennessee. So I have a couple of those players who are also in my top 20. I can tell already,

hopefully this isn't confusing for people. Hopefully the conversations that we have about these players can let you guys know that like, even if Connor has them as an edge, I have them as an interior defensive line. Maybe we could sort of come to an agreement of like where we see these players. But I already know I'm going to have a couple of guys that I list as three, four defensive ends. So it's technically an interior player that you're probably going to have at your edge spots. So that's gonna move our rankings up and down a little bit there. Yeah, let's, where did you have Deion Walker? You said 17.

Deion was at 18. I have him outside of my top 20. I don't blame you. And honestly, if I really stuck my ground and just ignored what I liked about him over summer in 2023. Like here's the reality with Deion Walker right now. He's 18 for me.

He's not a better player at the moment than the couple guys outside my top 20, like Jordan Phillips, Jay Toya, JJ Piggies, and Riley Mills. He's not, but at his size, he should be. And sometimes with NFL scouting, you are projecting players forward, which is what you have to do in a sense of Deion Walker. If you want to like him. Yeah.

Look, I didn't, I was skeptical about Deion Walker when we were going into summer scouting. Yeah. Um, and this past year's tape, I just don't think a lot of what he does is translatable to the NFL. He's just kind of uniquely built. Now it kind of came, it came out that what was he playing with a broken back or he just had a back injury. I can't remember exactly what it was this season. And I hope that that's the reason why he was so inflexible this year, because there's just not a lot that, again, he does, that's translatable to the NFL,

other than the fact that he's just uniquely built. If somebody asked you right now, what does he do well? What would you say? I would say he looks good, like walking onto the field. But even that, like a lot of his weight is in his midsection. Yeah, that's a good point. It's not like, like a lot of his weight is in his midsection. Yeah, that's a good point. It's not like he carries a lot of weight in his shoulders or his traps or his upper back,

which gives, or his chest to give him a lot of upper body strength. It's not like he has a dense lower half to really anchor well. So it's almost like he's just sort of unique. And I think people are really, he's unique. And I think his first step is pretty good. Now it's not what it was built to be before this past season was even. And so it's just, I've been disappointed

most of the times that I have watched the young Walker. And I hope that it's injury related because I hope that there is something more in there because as of right now, I do not see a player that's gonna be in the NFL very long. I just don't. He doesn't play with enough leverage. He doesn't play with enough power.

He gets moved off the ball way more than you would want for a guy who's a nose tackle. He's almost like, I actually have him listed as a three, four defensive end. He's not a nose tackle. Cause right now he can't play nose. No, he's not. Right. He's not a nose tackle.

He can't two gap. He can't play that style No, he's not. Right. He's not a nose tackle. He can't two gap. He can't play that style. So I completely agree. So I, again, I hope he can get a little bit healthier. He might be able to trim down some of the bad weight and then you can get him to play in an odd front and let him be like a defensive end. And I think that that length can come into his advantage,

but that's how I see Dion Walker there. So let's talk about Cameron Jackson, Cam Jackson from Florida. I have him at 19 and I have him, the only reason why I really have him at 19 is because I don't really think that he's gonna give you much as a pass rusher at all whatsoever.

But first and second down stuff, man, I mean, really, really long arms, big frame, super strong player, lighter on his feet than you would expect for a guy who's a nose tackle. Asia's not going to give you a lot of third down ability. And with as many defensive linemen as we have here, 19 is where I have him in my top 20. And that's still like third, fourth round pick. I've just got a lot of defensive linemen that are going to be in my my top three or four rounds. So I have him in number 19.

You have him a little bit higher. Would you think about him? Because we haven't talked about him yet on the pod. Yeah. With Cam, you're getting a guy that's six feet, six inches and a quarter, three twenty eight long arms. You know, just really, really big stout mass length. Multiple seasons now of run stuffing tape I Like that he plays with his head up against the run and understands how to stack and shed It's not like with so many of these guys. It's that

okay, I'm 325 plus pounds and I'm really big and I'm gonna just plant my feed and hold the point of attack. And guess what? That's a skill at the NFL level. With Cam Jackson, there is that. And there's also I have peripheral vision. I have the ability to get off blocks when I want to get. And that's probably the difference of a guy with arms over 34 inches long versus a lot of the nose tackles that arms are more in the 32, 32 and a half inches long.

He uses his length. He understands the art of the stack and shed. He's got good vision. He understands what run development is. And it's so fun to watch him compete against a double team because naturally it's almost impossible to get off a double team. You could split them or you could hold the point of attack. He holds the point of attack and will make a tackle with his 34 plus inch arms on the run. Because he's so fucking strong that he could just reach out and he's got good vision that he could just drag you down

while being double teamed. I was so impressed with the run-defeat, and you said it, Trevor, like I look at the weaknesses. There's no pass rush production. It's good that it went up from a 2.5% win rate in 2023, which is as low as you'll ever see, to 6.8 this year, where there's some pocket pushing, but that's his pass rush plan.

It's I'm gonna push the pocket, but man, if you need, I literally wrote in the scouting But man, if you need, I literally wrote in the scouting report, it's almost comical how he discards blockers in one-on-one situations. He is such a talented run defender. I think he has a good NFL body. It's not this top heavy.

He's six feet, six inches tall. He's massive. And he carries his weight well. He plays strong, plays smart. I'd put him on first and second downs on an NFL defense today. He reminds me a little bit of John Ridgeway. That's who I wrote for the comp.

The same- Is it really? Yes, that is my player comp for him. They have the same body, the same play style coming out of college, and they're good at the exact same things. You know, hey, we should do a podcast. We might have something together here. But look, dude, the wingspan is super impressive.

79th percentile for Cam Jackson, 81st percentile in just his overall arm length, and then 98th percentile height, 89th percentile weight. So he's built the way that you want an interior defensive lineman to be built. He could play nose tackle for you because of how strong he is, but he can also play in those four eye, three, four defensive end alignments too.

So anybody that runs an odd front or just likes to be multiple with how they move their defensive line. Oh, you're going to love this guy. Yeah. Cameron Jackson's definitely the guy I'll read. I'll read my 20. And then I think, yeah, 20 through 11. And then we should, we will probably have a couple of guys that we need to talk about here. Joshua farmer from Florida state is 20 for me. Um, really strong player, somebody who I think is still evolving, right? I can't remember exactly what his weight was when he got to Florida state,

but he's put on like 50, 60 pounds since he got to Florida state. So he's new at being, he's new at being fat, you know, is, is probably the way that I was saying. So like, you can kind of tell, like he's sort of not used to just the brute strength that he has at that weight profile. And so he's still figuring it out. He's a very raw player, but somebody who I would definitely draft somewhere on day three and try to figure out we got to figure out the pad level, we got to get him to play a little bit lower. That's the biggest issue for him right now. And then I don't think his athleticism has caught up to him playing at a higher weight yet. And that's why you see less than ideal athletic scores with him at the combine. And I absolutely think that that shows up on tape. So he's a little bit of a work in progress. He's going to take some time, but I do like him.

He's at number 20. I just mentioned Cam Jackson at 19, JJ Pagese. I got it 18. He's just such a unique, explosive athlete for a guy who's like 300 310 315. I just it's hard for me to have him too much lower than this because of how intrigued I am about whether he could play three technique or nose tackle or even fullback or tight end for you on offense like we saw at Ole Miss. Ty Robinson from Nebraska I also have him in here I have him at number 17 just an absolute I have him in here. I have him at number 17. Just an absolute brick shit house.

I mean, he is just, the word beef is just so spot on, how to explain just what this guy does, what he's all about. Yeah, prime rib eye right there. That's it, yeah, prime rib eye truly. Not just beef. Pro player comp. Prime rib eye.

Medium rare. I got your boy, Jamari Caldwell at 16. There he is. I have Jordan Phillips from Maryland actually at number 15. I just think that even though he and like Cameron Jackson, he's not gonna give you a lot in the pass rush game. He's just an ox in the middle, man. And I know he didn't have ideal measurables,

but man, he could plug up some gaps for you. So I got him at 15. Vernon Broadden, the aforementioned Vernon Broadden, I have him at number 14. This is where we differ a little bit with a guy who I think you probably would have as an edge rusher, Elijah Roberts from SMU. Yes, he is in my edge rankings. He plays a lot from a standup position,

but like when I watch him, I just go, your weight profile, your strength, how you win, like I want to reduce you and kick you inside. Reduces, I always kind of find it weird when they say like, oh, we want to reduce him inside. Reduce, it sounds like a negative term, but that's sort of the term that is used. I want to kick him inside and allow him to be more

in between the tackle and the guard, or at least inside the tackle more often because of how strong he is. Right now he wins as an edge rusher, he wins as a stand-up edge rusher in this sort of like wide seven alignment it's not really like he's winning from a five technique that often and so I'd rather just kick him inside man I think it could be really good there Alfred Collins from Texas I have it number 12 and then Shamar Turner from Texas A&M I I have him in this group.

I still think he's best as like an interior defensive lineman, but he's all over the place, man. Like he's played edge, he's played three technique defensive tackle. Shoot, they used him as a head up nose over the center with Shamar Stewart and Nick Skorton on either side of them playing five techniques. So he's been all over the place.

And ultimately I have him at number 11 there. A&M is like me in EA CFB where I don't know what they're doing, man. I don't know what they're doing where I just go. Okay, we're in dime. Like what a four man front. We're just going to put all the defensive ends out on the field right there. That's what they're like with. You're right. Turner is he's obviously a D tackle, but the way they play him is in and

out across multiple years of tape. So I think we should talk about a Neas Peebles on the back end. OK. You had him at 21, right? I had him at 20. Yes. Yep. Yeah. We could do something quick on Peebles just because he's so fascinating to me in a sense of, he's an outlier.

Like, let's just call it what it is. And what I mean by that is, he's a little over six feet tall, he's 282 pounds with 31 and 3 1⁄8 inch arms. He's small for a D tackle. Yeah. But he's not insanely athletic for his size as a tester. He's got good hands.

He's got great hands and he gets off the ball. The first line in the report for me was good, good burst off the ball with quick active hands. And that sets up everything for him. Swipes, clubs, chops, plays three tech, nose tackle, the pass rush win rates 16% in 2023, 17.8 in 2024, counter moves, you'll see a spin move.

I wrote down the big man spin move against Miami this year for a sack where I was like, whoa, that was sweet. So man, there is no reason this guy should be a good NFL player if you're just writing down the height, weight, length testing. But you turn on the tape and you go, yeah, man, like if I need a gap shooting pass rush artist that I can rotate in, I think his peoples is a lot of fun and I won't bet against him. Yeah, I agree. He's not super athletic.

Obviously his measurables don't do him any favors. But just to sort of understand and explain a little bit of like the practical essence of the game. If you're a smaller interior defensive lineman, and you know that you're going to get pushed around a little bit, you don't have the measurables or the muscle density to be able to hold your ground when you're going through your pass rush moves. The best way to counter that is well, how are people going to move you off of your spot? They're going to take their hands and they are going to push you. If you don't allow their hands to push you, then guess what? They're not going to be able to move you. And so, Aneas Peebles is very conscious, whether it's chop moves, swipes, rips, whatever, he is trying to move the offensive lineman's hands away from his body.

He will rip it up, he will chop it down, he will swipe it to the side. And that is, to me, the most impressive part of his game as a player who is not going to dominate you with what he has in terms of athleticism and measurables, sometimes he's one step ahead. dominate you with what he has in terms of athleticism and measurables, sometimes he's one step ahead. Sometimes the offensive line will be like, all right, I got this dude. And all of a sudden, their hands are up here and they're like, wait a minute. And then, and he is people is going underneath their shoulder and

he's getting to the quarterback. And they're like, how did that happen? He's a menace. There's just a lot of reps like that. And I like to have players on my team that win like that. Right. I mean, even if they're not going to be full-time starters for you, and I don't even know if he's ever going to be like a full-time

like a rotational contributor. If this guy was like a depth part of your interior defensive line, he's making your room smarter, right? When your defensive lineman, where they're all sitting there talking to the D line coach, going over film, whatever, like they're going to be talking together and he is somebody who just approaches the game really, really well. And I feel as though he's a good addition to a football team, even if he's not going to become like, I got him outside of my top 20,

you got him at number 20, you know, he's probably not going to be this impactful player, but having him on your team, I think it is nice. A couple of players that I don't have in my top 20, I just want to shout out here on the interior defensive line group. Tiring Ingram Dawkins from Georgia, three-four defensive end, athletic as hell.

You talk about a guy who does win with athleticism and measurables. He doesn't really know what he's doing yet, but man, this is a moldable player that I think the NFL is going to draft and try to develop their Tonka. Hemingway just missed as well. Jared Harrison hunt, the other defensive lineman from SMU. Those guys are just outside of my top 20. But before we get to some of the other players and we get into the top 10

Vernon broaden, I have him pretty close to Alfred Collins. I think both of these guys are pretty similar. I think Collins is getting a lot more love than Broughton is. And I think Broughton's a little bit smaller, but man, I thought both of those guys won pretty consistently together in the middle of Texas's defensive line. There were times when Alfred Collins

had to handle the double team. There were times when Broughton had to, and I felt as though Broughton was able to do that Not quite as well as Collins was but close enough, man I think both of these guys are rotational NFL players. I really do. I thought Broughton was more disruptive I thought Collins was more consistent in terms of like we could play him at shade nose and he can really hold the point Of attack that's fair with sure which is why I was a little higher higher on Collins terms of like we could play him at Shade Nose and he can really hold the point of attack. That's fair with Chore, which is why I was a little higher on

Collins. He'll be in my top 10. But Brunnen impressed me. He's got a weird build. He's a little high cut with a thinner lower half. And to his credit, he angles his way around blocks. There's times where he doesn't get to finish plays because he loses his balance. But I thought he was really, really disruptive. And that's why he ended up being at 15 for me.

Okay. Anybody else? Josh Farmer, Cam Jackson, JJ Pekees, Ty Robinson, Jamar Caldwell, Jordan Phillips, Vernon Broadden, Elijah Roberts, Alfred Collins, Jamar Turner. Where did you have Cam Horsley from Boston College? I had him outside of the top 20. Okay. I like Cam. He just, I think he's got the measurables going against him. Right.

You know, the arm length, he's sort of like a sawed off type of a dude. And he's sort of like, if you can't get CJ West, Yeah. you can get Cam Horsley a little bit later. You know, he won't give you as much as a pass rusher, but they're kind of built the same. I don't think he's as good of a run defender either, but I had him

just out of my top 20 there. We could go to the top tens. All right, let's do it. All right. Ten. You want to go? Let's say let's do a little suspense. Go 10 through five real quick. Go 10. 10 through five.

Okay, Jamari Caldwell from Oregon is at 10 for me. Nine for me is Bull Rush McIntyre, TJ Sanders. There he is. There he is, of course. Eight, Shamar Turner, who you brought up from A&M. Number seven, Darius Alexander from Toledo. And six was Alfred Collins, who we just talked about from Texas.

Okay, so 10 for me is CJ West. I've got CJ West cracking my top 10 there. Jared Ivy from Ole Miss, who I assume that you probably have as an edge rusher because he mostly played edge. I think he's a three four defense event. That is where I think he is going to play at the NFL level. If an even front team drafts him, sure, he'll play edge for them, but Ivy is not going to be a player who's ever going to threaten the outside shoulder as an edge rusher. And if you're not going to do that, kick inside, play three, four defensive end. That is, I mean, his strength, reduce his strength and his length are where he wins as a player. He gets to do that a lot more effectively and a lot more consistently when you're playing a little bit more inside. So I have Jared Ivy at number nine. I got Bull Rush McIntyre TJ Sanders at number eight.

I also have Darius Alexander at number seven. And then I have Derek Derek Harmon from Oregon at number six. Oh, wait, did we go to five or did we go to six? We went to six. Okay, yeah, and then I have Derek Harmon there at number six. Can we talk just a little bit about CJ West? Where did you, you had him a little bit lower. Yeah, I had West at 16. 16, I have him at 10.

Fun tape. He does have fun tape. He pops, he pops. I'll pull up all my notes on real nose tackle type. And I mean, he's look, he's not gonna he's not gonna impress anybody with great measurables. But he is a relentless worker. He gives you some juice as a pass rusher. And you talk about like a bowling ball type of nose tackle. Yeah,

he can hold the line of attack, man. You, you talked about the difference. And so I thought it was great that you brought this up the differences of how you can beat a double team. You can either try to take it on and hold your ground, you know, drop that knee, get into a little corkscrew technique, something like that. Or you could try to split it. You could try to get in the backfield and try to ruin the double team that way.

CJ West honestly can do a little bit of both. I've seen him beat double teams in both ways. And when you can beat double teams in both ways, it makes the offensive lineman a little bit more hesitant because they've got to think that it's a, well, hold on. He split us last time. So, all right, okay. We got, we got to get our feet in unison and we got to be shoulder to shoulder here. And when you're thinking too much, guess what you're not doing?

You're not playing free. You're not playing as strong as you could, right? So you're not trying to move him off the ball. And it might've been a snap where he goes, now I'm just trying to hold the line and now neither of you are pushing me. So that ability to attack double teams in both ways, I think is pretty valuable for CJ West.

So that's why I had him a little bit higher than you and why I like him quite a bit here at number 10. He's built like a T-Rex. He is man. He is man. Which you're coming back, you know, like the dire wolves are back. Yeah, we'll have dinosaurs on this planet before we die. I'm pretty convinced of that. Did you see, it was the official Jurassic Park Twitter account. Oh no. Quote tweeted the dire wolf like news and basically was like, can't see how this would go wrong. It is funny like all the things that were constantly told not to do. Society's mission is just to find a way to make it happen. Dude, 100%.

100%. All of the Hollywood movies that have tried to warn us about this. Robots. Yeah, man cloning How many robot movies do we have to have before we go? Hey, you know what? Maybe we shouldn't have done this They will take over the world at some point Yeah, they'll take over the pod because the robots will be six four two forty and we'll have no choice But to relinquish the seats at some point. We're just grading the mock drafts as minions. All right.

You want me to you want to go the final countdown here on D line? Yes, because we've talked about these guys quite a bit, but I think that we can just touch on them a little bit and where they come in come up in our final rankings because mine certainly has changed a little bit. It has. I had some movement as well. Mostly I already went through all the movement.

A lot of this is pretty similar. Five Walter Nolan from Ole Miss for Derek Harmon from Oregon, three Tyleek Williams from Ohio state. And then the Michigan boys at two and one and Kenneth grand Mason Graham. Wow. Okay. So you got, you got Tyleek at three. Yeah.

Which that's been pretty steady for me. I have them at five and- That's pretty high too. Like it's, I see him all over the place. I thought I'd be lower on him because I have him at five over Derek Harmon and Darius Alexander. And that was, that wasn't the case for a while.

And this week when I really just started to dive back into rechecks and watching these guys, like Ty Leek's not gonna give you too much as a pass rusher, but there are plenty of opportunities where at least he can, you know, give you a club swim, you know, like an arm over move, or he can push pull you pretty much at will. And he's not very good at finishing

when he gets into the backfield. But at least he's getting into the backfield on some of these and he's winning against his one on ones. You've talked about what a great run defender he is. And to be honest, I just I think he played with more dominance than both Derek Harmon and Darius Alexander. Now not by a ton, but that's ultimately why he ended up being five for me and those other guys were six and seven. Who did you have after him from four to one? I have Omar Norman Lot at four. So that I couldn't not place who the variable was. When you read off Harmon earlier, I was like he has to have somebody in his top five that I'm forgetting about. And you know what? I get it. I want him to take the floor.

I'm fence sitting with Omar Norman lot, having him at 11 because as a pass rusher, it's all there. They don't even want you to see whatever the run defense is. Like 84 snaps against the run in college this year is just, I don't know what, maybe they're gonna look foolish when all this is said and done, but I definitely sat on the fence

when it came to stacking him. He is, he's just too good at the things that I gravitate towards for a three technique defensive tackle. He is so explosive off the ball. His hands are heavy and violent. They move very fast. He's got pass rush moves already.

He's got a nasty stack and shed. He has long arms despite being shorter, which is the best part of being that's what that's what you want from a three technique defense to tackle because that means that you're naturally going to play with leverage and then you also have a length advantage to you. It's a double positive. So you take that with explosiveness, pass rush moves and an innate ability to get into the backfield. I think his pass rush win percentage was like 18% this past season. I'm in, man.

Well, he wears meat hooks too, catcher's mitts. Who the hell has 11 and 1 eighth inch hands? He can walk to somebody and just cover their head and like just absolutely crush them. 11 and an eighth inch? And look, the hockey substitution thing, 19.4% win percentage, by the way. the hockey substitution thing, 19.4% win percentage by the way. The hockey substitution thing that Tennessee did this past year with,

with their players, like I, you are right. I don't know if it's going to be a story of there were limitations on what Omar Norman lock could really do as a run defender or if it was just them saying. We have bigger dudes, so we're just going to substitute them in. And that's what we're going to keep the other guys fresh. When he pins his ears back to go, he has better traits than Derek Harmon, then Darius Alexander, then even TJ Sanders, then all of them.

He has better traits than basically everybody that's not Mason Graham and I'll throw Walter Nolan in there as well because my top three is I then have Kenneth Grant, I then have Walter Nolan and then I have Mason Graham. Oh Walter Nolan at two. Brother he's just, the best Walter Nolan plays are insane. That's why he frustrates me so much. I sent, we have a, for everybody out there, we have a group DM with me, Connor, EJ and Brett from Google. Oh, that play is just gnarly. There is a play that I sent,

can't remember if it was today or yesterday when I was watching Walter Nolan, he tackles the running back in the backfield with the offensive guard. He doesn't even really have that much of a running start to the guard, but he blasts the guard back five feet and he slams into the running back as he gets the football and it's a tackle for loss. It's like a black hole opened up.

The power that Walter Nolan plays with is unmatched in this class, in my opinion. As a run defender, he is nasty. He plays with a hot motor. It's a little bit up and down with him, but dude, he has the mold of a dominant interior defensive lineman. And so I love Kenneth Grant, but I had to be honest with the situation. Walter Nolan is stronger in his upper body. He is more explosive in his first step.

His hands are more violent than Kenneth Grant's are. And for as much as I like Kenneth Grant, and I think that he's got a good motor, Walter Nolan's got a motor that runs a million miles an hour. So all of those things, man, it's why I got him at number two over Graham. Man, listen, it's not like egregious or anything.

You're buying in on pass rush traits that he has, right? So like, it's, no, I don't think it's crazy at all. And not just pass rush traits, he brought up the play of him just dismantling the guard. Nolan, I'll pull up, Nolan's a weird one to me because I haven't had five. It's not like I'm down on Walter Nolan. Right. Their scheme brings out the best in him with all the slanting

they do and all the disruption. No question. Like, good. You should do that for your players, by the way. That's not me sitting here saying like he's a product of scheme. Meanwhile, we sit here for all the A&M guys and we're like, we hate watching this every year. Right. So I'm not going to kill him for that or anything like that. He does run cold as a pass rusher when you look at,

so Georgia, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Kentucky, four games. He had two total pressures in those four games combined because he just, he doesn't really have a counter. No, and he doesn't really have a lot of moves. No, it's like like I'm the athlete. Yes. And it's like those four teams, they get some pretty good high school players.

So it was, it to me was a sign of like, oh, these are what good athletes are. Yes. And now I'm gonna see that at the NFL. So my Walter Nolan take is, there's gonna be a transition period for him that's gonna be a little rough, but you He has things that are special that will always be drafted highly and

He just needs to play in the right scheme And if anybody gets a counter move or a go-to for him like it's over it's over for him, but he doesn't have that right now and we've seen those guys fail before if If Trent Balke was still the general manager of the Jacksonville Jaguars, I think he goes five. I think he goes- I don't think you're wrong. I think he goes five in Jacksonville.

Like he would take him over Mason Graham. Yes, yes. The Jags would absolutely take Walter Nolan over to Mason Graham, which I don't think is the craziest take out there. I would obviously take Mason Graham, don't get me wrong, but like that's what, if like Jacksonville, he'd be an option for, I don't think he's going there, but you'd be an option for them. I honestly think that him next to Quinn and

Williams is nasty, you know, like for the jets. I don't know. I don't think they're considering it, but I think that's a fun duo to think about the San Francisco 49ers need somebody on the interior. And I think Walter Nolan's immediately their best player on the interior at number 11. I think for Dallas, he could immediately make their run defense better and he's immediately their top interior defensive lineman. So to me, I'm a Walter Nolan in the top 12 type of a guy at this point. I think that he is the talents through the roof. I'm willing to bet on it. I don't know anything like about the player other than the film that I'm watching, but I'm in. I think that this guy is incredibly talented.

Shall we move over? We miss any. Now, we got we talked about the other guys a lot. Once again, a reminder on the show, if you want to hear us talk about Mason Graham, we've done other D line rankings a couple of months ago. We did summer scouting every mock draft. Yes. So you guys can go back and kind of like, yeah, in every mock draft, we talk about those guys a lot.

But if there's somebody not in our top 20 that you want to hear about, just like the wide receiver and running back episode, fire off in the comments. We would love to hear from you guys. And I will try to go in there. I need to actually go back to wide receiver and running back to do that again,

to sort of go through what you guys had with the questions on any of the players that we didn't mention. I will do the same with this defensive line episode. Before we flip over to edge rushers, I said at the very top of the show, NFLSE is presented by arena. It is the sports super app that is combining pick them in DFS with a social media platform with all the news that you could want as a sports fan. Uh, it's, it's basically a sports app powerhouse

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We're building our followings over there, but we would love for you guys to sign up because what we're gonna be doing over there is we're gonna be taking advantage of everything that that platform has to offer. And that includes us being content creators over there as well, just like we are on Instagram here on this podcast on Twitter.

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You know how that goes, But check it out, man. They've got all sorts of sports there. They're continuing to populate all the sports sort of as they grow into the thing. It's slick too, man. Like it just looks so good. It's awesome. And the interface is so easy to get through from your news to your social,

obviously to the pick and plays. It's a really cool app to jump around and another way for everybody to interact with us that we're pumped to get that ball rolling. Yep. And like we said, we're going to be doing some exclusive NFLSE content over on that app. So go download it. You can download it in the app store. Arena Sports is the easiest way to find it. And follow both of us at Tampa Bay Tray at Connor J. Rogers. It's the same thing. We will have the official NFL SE account as well,

which you guys can follow. And like I said, it'd be a really cool place to interact with you guys and get to talk about a lot of stuff like NFL draft related and NFL related. So go check it out and download it. Yeah, let's get into the edge rushers now. All right. 20 through 11.

Yeah, let's do it. 20 for me was Baron Sorrell from Texas. Hey, I also have a 20. That is really funny. By the way, 21 was Tyrion Ingram Dawkins. You had a D-Tac on D-Tackles, but I get it both ways. I do.

Dude, he's a freak show, man. Yeah, yes. He's like, he's the rare person. You know how they always try to recruit college basketball players to play tight end? Yes. I look at Ingram Dawkins and rare person like, you know how they always try to recruit college basketball players to play tight end? Yes. I look at Ingram Dawkins and I'm like, can you go play small forward? It's like...

Yes, man! It's crazy. Dude, his combine was nuts too. He's a great athlete. Hold on, let me look this up. He was... Okay, the height is 77th percentile, the wingspan is 85th percentile. That's what I was thinking of, the wingspan.

The vertical jump is 89th percentile. It's nuts. But then, the 20 yard shuttle is 82nd as well, the three cone is 66. Dude's explosive. And agile. Agile, can change change direction and is massive. Yeah, he is really really gifted. So he came in at 20 for me or 21. 20 was Baron Sorrell, 19 was Ashton Gelati

from Louisville. Your boy? 18, Elijah Roberts who you talked about before from SMU. He's 285 pounds. He does rush standing up a lot in college, but I do think he'll reduce as Trevor said. So he's at 18. Reduce. He'll be worse. He'll reduce in the NFL.

He'll reduce. Sorry. He'll get worse. 17 was Olubo Femi Oladejo from UCLA, off-ball linebacker that converted to edge late. We talked about him on the Day 3 Prospect show. 16, David Walker from the FCS level at Central Arkansas, who is a fascinating watch.

We've talked about David Walker for a while. We'll get into it again. 15, shout out to you, Trevor. You mentioned Savion Jones from LSU as a sleeper for you. Savion Jones can absolutely play, he came in at 15 for me. 14, Jordan Burch from Oregon. 13, Landon Jackson from Arkansas.

12 was Prinsley Umon-Meelen from Ole Miss. And 11 is Jack Sawyer from Ohio State. Okay. It shows how deep this group is when I just ripped off. You got some players still in that top 10. Yeah, I got some ballplayers left to go through. Interesting. Some ballplayers.

Okay, all right. I'll say my top 20 and then I think we should just kind of talk about a handful of those guys. Baron Sorrell I also have at number 20. He loved when a plan comes together. Yeah, really versatile player. I mean, somebody who didn't get the chance to start full-time until I believe this past year,

or maybe it was the year before, for Texas. And I think that he can play as a stand-up outside linebacker. I think he'd play with his hand in the dirt. I don't know if he's athletic or physically gifted enough to be like that full-time starter, but a really nice depth piece for you. Somebody that can absolutely round out the bottom part of your, your edge rush room in the NFL.

I do still still think there's a spot for him on the roster and I think he could be a fun player that just has a pretty high floor for you because he could do a lot of things. So I got him at 20, save you on Jones. You mentioned, I got him at number 19, just a relentless motor, man. I mean like he, he doesn't have the best flexibility in the world, but man, the hands are always working. He is always trying to get clean. He is big.

He is powerful. I almost put him in the three, four defensive end category, but I felt as though he wasn't quite that big. I'd still rather have him as that heavy handed five technique defensive end. Jordan Burch I have at number 18, the edge rusher from Oregon. I don't know if I can call him your boy anymore because I got him higher than you do Ashley Gelati I got Gelati at 17 so I have him there Jack Sawyer I have at 16 Kyle Kennard I have at 15 Josiah Stewart I have at 14 JT 2 in the low out it's like a sniper shot here in just I Stuart there. Dude, I I I like I believe he's you.

All right. I am so in. It's dangerous. Hold on. Hold on. We're going to talk. He's my Mochamara this year. So he yeah, you were super high. I love the Mochamara. These are my top 100. Yeah. Yeah. And you went to fifth round.

Yeah, that's how it goes. Yeah. Trusting the Dolphins to prove me right. What could go wrong? It'll be fine. I got Josiah Stewart at 14. I have JT Tuiamolo at 13. I have Oluwafemi Olodejo at 12. And then I have Prince Lee Uman Miele at number 11.

Okay. So we were very similar on Prince Lee. We really had the same players in here almost besides JT and Josiah Stewart. Do you have canard top 10? No, canard didn't make my top 20. Yeah, I didn't really like canard and that was kind of the case the first time we went around the edge players. I like him. There's a lot of empty calorie production. I know it's harsh. What are you calling him? A rice cake? Oh, man. It's just like you watch the production and you're like,

ah, he's not. I know. Yeah. I mean, he's obviously getting drafted and isn't like a, I'm not saying that, but it's just, I, I had previously had him in my top 10 of edge rushers. Yeah. Super productive season for him at South Carolina. Big numbers. What was it? What do you get? Like 11 and a half sacks, 12 and a half sacks. I'm pretty sure. Super productive season for him at South Carolina. Big numbers. What was it? What are you like 11 and a half sacks, 12 and a half sacks. I'm pretty sure, yeah, it was double digits. Yeah, and I mean, he has a decent pass rush wind percentage.

It wasn't as impressive as the total sacks that he had, but when you watch him, he plays a little bit lighter than you want. He's more easily moved off the ball than you would want. So you kind of need to think about him as just a designated pass rusher. And then when you do, he wins with savviness and quickness. He doesn't have that rare bend to him,

that rare explosiveness to him. So I think he's a good player. I think he's an NFL player, but I didn't see a major difference maker there from him. But the savviness and just the overall production that he had this past year makes me think that, okay, like at least there's something there from him. Like at least I think he's a rosterable player, somebody who I can sort of depend on here.

And the reason why I got him at 15 honestly is because I want him to go to an odd front team where he can just be that stand-up outside linebacker. And if he is and he's in that comfortable spot, I think he'll be able to give you some good reps there. So that's why I got him at 15. Jalotti man at 17, to me, feels like the most underrated edge player. He's an artist. Nobody talks about him. Like I tried. No one wanted to listen to me. No one wanted to listen to me. But enough about my wife. I thought he should have declared last year. What'd you say? I thought he should have declared last year. Yeah, he probably, yeah, I mean, you know, he could have. He could have. Not for that my wife.

He plays with a ton of power, really strong his lower half. And to be honest with you, I waited to watch him. I watched Jordan Burch, I watched Savian Jones, I watched Baron Sorrell, I watched David Walker, I watched Ahmed Hassaneen, I watched Kaiman Rucker, I watched all of these guys sort of like in a group because I knew they were all sorted together in the rankings that I had. And then I watched Jiladi and I was like, not even close, what is he versus these other guys? And he gets off the ball quicker and more explosively, he plays with more power. He plays with better leverage.

He converts speed to power better. And I go, okay, there we go. Then I'm going to put him ahead of all those guys. And I did. I wasn't sure where I was going to have him in that group. And you know, turns out he's at the, he's, he was at the top of that group of players that I mentioned because Tyler Tyler Batty from BYU, I had a 21 David Walker from central Arkansas. I had a 22. David Walker from Central Arkansas, I had it 22. Ahmed Hassani, I had it number 23. So those are the guys that I had right outside of my top 20.

What did you do with Colin Oliver? Who basically missed the season, by the way. He played two games, but he played linebacker before that. He got two games this year as an edge rusher. He's a DPR, but he was 22 for me, and I was like- Was he? Because he's, it's like what he could do as a designated pass rusher is nuts, but it is such a niche role only for that.

I mean he would have been he would have been outside of my top 25. Okay. You know, cuz like I would have had Kivan Rucker. I would have had John Joyner. I would have Antoine Power Island. I would have had Quay Robinson like all of those guys I would have had Jodjoiner, I would have had Antoine, Antoine Power Island, I would have had Quay Robinson, like all of those guys I would have had above him. So he would have been, I don't know, 28, 29, 30,

something like that for me. Should we, well, no, we should talk about, should we talk about Jack Sawyer or have we talked enough about Jack Sawyer? I don't know if we have. Because I think there's some people listening that are floored he's in this tier for us, not our next tier.

Where is he for you? 11th? Yeah, he's 16 for me It's just with Sawyer He's the ways he wins now Will be harder to win at the next level is the most condensed breakdown I can give of him like He's got a dense built. He's got no length. He's not very fast.

He doesn't re accelerate. Like when the reps start to slow down, he doesn't have that secondhand explosiveness or like that redirection. I think I've said this before, but if you go through the unblocked pressures, it inflated his production a little this year. But to be fair to Sawyer, he's got really coached up hands. He works in this two handed swipe.

He drives through the hips with wrap up. He doesn't miss a lot of tackles. He's got good eye discipline when reading the run. He plays with good leverage. He sets a hard edge. He was a really good run defender all year, but the reason he didn't make my top 10 is like he's a, to me on the high end, the next level, he's going to be a really good early, like base down edge setter. That's an effort rusher. I just think it's going to be hard for him to consistently win as a pass rusher at the next level.

I agree. I don't think he's a good athlete. Was there a specific reason why he didn't work out at the combine? Because I don't remember hearing one. And he didn't work out at the combine and he didn't run at Ohio State's Pro Day. And the only reason that I can think of is because he was going to test poorly. And- He just benched. Right, he only benched at the Pro Day.

Me and you do that. Yeah, poorly, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But still. We do, that's correct, that's correct. Yeah, yeah. You're right, I don't, I guess, I guess I'm being

a hypocrite here, because I don't do any of the other combine exercises, but I benched. I'm just calling it fair between us. I'm not going to sit here and kill Jack Sawyer when you and I on our stock exchange pro day would just bench. That's true. OK, so. So the write up said he had a he didn't do the workouts because he had a minor hamstring injury.

Take that how you will. I have clearly taken it the way, in my evaluation, if you could read through the lines. I think he didn't run because he knew that he would not test well and it would not go well for him. Like you mentioned, you can see there's not really a twitchiness to him.

He's much more of a buildup speed guy. If he's got to go from zero to 60, it takes him a while to get up to top speed. He is not a great backfield finisher when it comes to like coordination and the fact that his arm length is fourth percentile. So a productive player, I think a solid player for the college level, but you're right. I think he won with, you know, a really nice hand swipe move. He was able to stay pretty clean at the college level, but I don't think he gets that luxury in the NFL.

And I think that he gets lost. I really do believe he's probably just like a solid rotational or depth player in the NFL. That's the way I just did not see difference making traits there from Sawyer. And again, the reason why I think there's a reason why he didn't work out all off season long and I don't really think it's because of the minor hamstring. I think it's because he knew he was not gonna test very well and you don't wanna put that out there. It's good to know though,

if when the Stock Exchange Pro Day happens, if my 40 is not where it needs to be, like my hamstring is gonna be a little cranky that day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's literally just like we set up the whole Pro Day, like there's an area. Yeah, cameras are day. Like there's an area for the 40. They've got the vertical jump, like the tiles that you hit and everything.

They've got the three cone all set up. We just walk in there and we just bench. And then, and that's it. I'll do one rep of 225, because that's basically my max at this point. So I'll do one rep of 225 and then stop as you can yeah and then that'll be it and then and that'll be you know and then that'll that'll conclude the um combine this concludes the NFL stock exchange pro day thank you for attending

there will be no media session yeah there will be there will be no media session. Everybody's standing around like, what the fuck? Why did I fly here? They're like behind ropes. Yeah, we go through a side door. Thanks for coming. So yeah, that's why I would much rather take a chance at JT doing below out. I don't know if you mentioned him yet. Yeah, he's in my top 10.

I had him at 13. The only other guy to touch on before we move on, well, okay, two more guys. One guy pretty quickly, Jordan Burch. What'd you think of Jordan Burch? I have him at 18. Yeah. I just, I don't think the athleticism that he put on display at the combine, I just don't think it shows up in his tape nearly enough. I really don't think the athleticism that he put on display at the combine. I just don't think it shows up in his tape nearly enough.

I really don't. So I was sort of over. Sorry. I was sort of underwhelmed with him. He has some good plays, but again, I just I don't know how often you're going to see that at the NFL level. I really don't. He grew on me a lot though this year. Cause when I watched him in 2023,

thinking he was gonna declare, I was like. He was way better in 2024. I was like, there's just nothing here right now. And then you see the production inflate in 2024 and the pass rush win rate go up to 15.7%. I just thought he looked all around better. Like his big hands, knock blockers off balance. He started to get this long arm going.

He's got the two handed swipe. He can play multiple alignments. He's a power rusher and he's a big bodied player. I wanna see what his hands came in at. So his hands came in at nine and a half, but I thought the way he just gets him rolling is like heavyweight style. Where was he for you?

Burch was 14 or 15. Okay. Well, he's 18 for me. Yeah, I don't think we see him differently at all. He's not that far off. I think I just see Burch as like, some people have him in their top 10. Like some people love the recruiting ranking and the athleticism.

And I just don't see it translate as much as it could. So I wanted to touch on Burch really quick. Femi Odejo, I have him at 12. You have him a little bit lower than that as well. This is another player who I think a lot of people are getting carried away with. Like I have seen him as a fringe first round prospect. I mean, come on now.

I have seen some people put him in the first round. This is a one year edge rusher who has decently long arms. But if I remember correctly, they weren't even like extremely long arms. 33 inches. 33 and three eights. That's 45th percentile. Right. Right right right like it's not I think when people think of Femi Odeho they go like oh my god like the super long arms got 45th percentile arms Yeah, he's 43rd percentile when it comes to height he's 37th percentile when it comes to weight now He's 76 percentile when it comes to overall wingspan because I think the chest is is wide and then you combine that with the longer arms

Like that goes into it, but I think we're just getting and then you combine that with the longer arms like that goes into it. But I think we're just getting we did. We did the thing where we go like, hey, you know, Femi's pretty cool. And it's like, oh, yeah, I actually think that he could be a rotational player. Well, I actually think that he could be a starter. Well, I actually think that he should go first round. You're 100 percent right. This took on a life of its own. Yeah. I remember when we saw him down in Mobile, the story started

and it was like, oh, he's going to be, you know, an interesting early day three pick. Yeah. And you know what the problem is, Trevor, his best plays are pretty beautiful in terms of you see the cross chop, you see him like really play hard and violent and he hasn't been playing edge pass rusher long so you get excited. But then you go through the full size of the 310 pass rush snaps he had this year. There are long stretches of him not getting off blocks. Like long stretches. And that base you talked about, he plays wide still, and that's why he gets stuck on blocks. So.

10.8% pass or win percentage. Yeah. It's lower than Mike L Williams, you know? Right, there's just stretches of him not impacting the game. Yeah. I agree. And he looks tight when he tries to change direction. He's straight line explosive and strong,

but he's not agile. And that's probably why they moved him from linebacker. When he wins clean on the pass rush plan that he went into the rep having, looks beautiful. It's that cross shop. Like it's sick, it makes you wanna buy all the stock you possibly can in him. But when it doesn't work exactly the way that he wants it to, I think that you're right. He struggles, he stalls,

it's tougher for him to get off blocks. I understand the inexperience of him not playing edge rusher full time for a while sort of goes into that. And if you want to believe that he can get better at it, I'm not going to keep you from doing that. And take him to the fourth round. That's the thing. It's like, I just wanted to have the Femi conversation because there are people who like have him as a fringe first round prospect. Like I've seen him go to the Eagles at 32 in some mocks, you know, to like Detroit at 28.

I'm like, what are we doing? We're getting way too ahead of ourselves. Got to be consequences for these actions. I'm sorry, but- Straight to the gulag. There's got to be some kind of consequences. We as a society- Look, Verdansk is back. The gulag. There's got to be some kind of consequences We look for the answer is back. We can do logs back open. Yeah You know what you're gonna throw rocks at each other for days on end. Sorry, you can't fight your way out of this one

My favorite part of her dance being back I've only played it one night with some buddies but it was fun is when you get in the same like gulag as your friend who also died at the same time as you because you got Third-party pretty hard and like they go in before you so you can see them Oh, yeah, and you just I just do the call out where I just start screaming at them Hey, you know what a lot of times it works a lot of times it works You always have that one friend though that absolutely turns into a puddle with the pressure

Yeah, they forget what their rights and lefts are they start shooting and throwing their grenades And then they start yelling at you and they die after the head. Yeah, yeah, yeah entire squad It's like dude. You're just cheeks like just move on. We'll buy you back shut up Yeah, it's it is amazing concept. Okay. All right, so good luck in there everyone Yeah, good luck in good luck in for dance. Uh 10 through 6 all right 10 through wait wait before we get to 10 through 6 Any parents out there who are in the gulag, if you want to know how to buy your kids back and get them out,

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managed by Fort Washington Investment Advisors Incorporated additional services provided by Apex Clean Corporation. All investing is subject to risk. Learn more at MeFabric.com. All right, 10 through 6. 10 through 6. Fire away here. All right.

Mikel Williams is number 10. He played for Georgia. Nine. Braden Swinson from LSU. Nice. Who was not on the original edge rusher rankings. I apologize everybody. I said there should be consequences.

I'm ready to pay the price. I'll go to the gulag. Braden Swinson cracks the top 10. He's a hell of a player. Eight, Josiah Stewart from Michigan. Seven, James Pierce Jr. from Tennessee. And six, JT Tui Malo'o from Ohio State. Uh, ooh.

Yeah, I know. Yeah. I was like, you're not going to just let that slip by. You got JT. All right. Talk to me about JT. I got to hear it. You got him at six?

Yeah. Listen, he's not a pass rush artist, but he is every bit of an NFL edge player, man. Like he is one of the best run defending edge players in this class he's got big powerful hands he's got really good instincts as you've seen not only with the interceptions throughout college but obviously defending the run he's battle-tested like he's gone up against Oluf Ashenu and Joe Alt and you see him kind of work this counter spinning to get off blocks I love the way he just dials it up at the goal line against the run this guy Joe Alt and you see him kind of work this counter spinning to get off blocks. I love the way he just dials it up at the goal line against the run.

This guy turns into the incredible Hulk when it's, when the team's trying to punch in runs at the goal line. He's like, not on my watch. 91st percentile run defense grade this year, stout, reliable, aware, just those big heavy hands and that two handed swipe. He does, he's not a consistent disruptor. I get it. He's just not, he's more of an effort rusher. He's not twitchy, he's not bendy.

I don't think there's a lot of variety in the pass rush plan. But if you told me to pick somebody like outside of the Abdul Carter range or Mike Green range, that's it. Who do you think is gonna have an eight year career in the NFL? I'd say JT every single time.

I think that's fair. And perhaps I'm not valuing that enough. I don't know how much he gives you as a pass rusher at the NFL level. Cause if I don't see a lot of difference making trades for him going up against big 10 offensive tackles, I'm not so sure. I guess I didn't mean for it to be that much shade

towards it, but like- What are you gonna get the big 10's a big, the big 10. Well, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for example, it's the big like 24 now. So now it's harder or they're lying. They're now they're diluting the product, brother. They're diluting the product for money. Open your eyes, Connor.

You're talking about the big 10. Like it's the fan controlled football league. Like, oh yeah. What do you want the left tackle to do here? Ethan Garbers drops back. Do you make them throw a deep pass or a screen? Vote now fans on the Jumbo Tron. Are you kidding me?

It's like in those football simulations where it's like you hike and then like it goes like way slow motion. You've got to like press the different buttons to make something happen. Like that's how it is real life No, no, no, I'm more saying that in college now we get it if I'm sort of watching him Struggle to win with twitch and with speed It only gets tougher at the NFL, but I do agree with you. The floor is pretty damn high Maybe I'm not taking that into account as much as I should be. We'll see as it plays out. So you got him at number six there. I'll read my 10 through six. Braden Swinson I have at number 10. You sort of mentioned I think having him at nine is where you had him but man just excellent hand usage from him. I think sometimes it's a little bit tight

when it comes to that change of direction but man I think he's got a good first step to him pairs it with some good hands some fast hand work and so he is somebody who very high pass rush win percentage this past season I could see that translating to the NFL especially as a outside linebacker stand up pass rusher type of a player I have Jalen Walker at number nine as an edge rusher. Okay. I did not evaluate him as an edge I ultimately think he's just gonna be an offball linebacker. Yep I think that's where I'm going to like him the most, which sort of goes into my frustrations of the way that we talk about him. I loved listening to him at the combine. I love the fact that his dad was a defensive

coordinator. I love the fact that he very clearly understands the game at such a high level, and he just gets it. And I know why coaches and GMs would want this guy on their football team I totally get it if you told me I could pick Jalen Walker at number 26 for the Los Angeles Rams awesome I'd be all in somewhere at the beginning of the second round hell yeah I'm in number eight that the Carolina Panthers, little rich for me. Yeah, that's fair. I'm not gonna be honest. That's fair. Because if you want him to be a full-time edge rusher, if you tell me that that's his

best reps, he is not built like an edge rusher at all whatsoever. And I went back and I watched it, he converts speed to power very, very well, okay? He converts speed to power very well. But when he does not convert speed to power at a high enough level to win the rep, it is very difficult for him to get off the block because his arm length is not what it should be to be an edge rusher. So you're basically asking him to just be a speed to power

sort of a bull in a china shop type of a rusher, and I'm not really comfortable taking a player like that in the top 12, top 10. Now as an off ball linebacker, I think I like him more because he can roam around the field he can use his high intelligence all that kind of stuff he could run and chase he's a point shoot type of a linebacker prospect but when it comes to his dropping in coverage he's not really you could like he like he's super muscled up because he plays on the line of scrimmage

as well and it's almost like he's almost like carrying a little too much weight a little too much muscle to be able to move and be fluid and coverage the way that you would want him to. So you just got to think about that part of it as well. I think I like him the most as a linebacker, but I wanted to put him amongst the edge rushers here to say like if he was an edge rusher,

I'd probably have him somewhere around this area just because I think he is a good athlete and he does convert speed to power really well. But I have some worries. Ultimately, I think he's more of an off-ball linebacker, but I wanted to have him in here. Layton Jackson, I have it number eight. Oh, hello. Dude's good, man. Yeah, I get it. Dude gives you a lot more flexibility than you expect for a player who's built like he is. He can hold the run very well. He's got those long arms to him. He could play four-eye. He could play four eye, he could play five technique.

He play wide seven. I just think that Landon Jackson is again, another underrated guy, in my opinion, somebody who I think can be a impactful player in the league. I really do. Michael Williams, I have at number seven and then Nick Skorton, I have at number six. So that is my 10 through six there. Anybody else you want to kind of talk about there? Landon, Mikel, Nick Skorton?

I think we've had a lot of the combos about these guys. Our 5 is gonna be pretty close, I think. I think it's gonna be pretty close. Swinson, just to give my two cents on him, because I didn't talk about, I didn't eval him last time. To me, Because I didn't talk about I didn't eval him last time to me He's somebody that just He uses his length to set up his rushes and he understands how to convert power like he throws his hands with a purpose And you just you see different moves with his hands the two-handed swipe the cross chop

That it's so much improvement 2023 15.9 pass rush win rate this year, 22% because he just understands not only had to throw his hands with purpose, but he sets up these heavier blockers with stutter steps. There's some outside speed where he can kind of dip and turn into the pocket. I would agree Trevor, that's not the most flexible

kind of guy, but there's enough turn to corner. And he does a good job staying off blocks against in the run game. He just he understands how to not get blocked, whether it is those stutters and the hand usage and I think there's times where he's a little over aggressive, but and he missed a lot of tackles really because of balance or striking high. But that's correctable. So Swinton was a was a really, really fun watch and a good guy to get into this group

I'm glad that we finally got to him. I really am Okay, let's get into the top five because I think there's some players that we can talk about who are maybe just outside of my Top five who I think are gonna be within your top five before we get to that though NFL is easy draft coverage is brought to you in part by our friends over at Jack's links with their duos product Jack links knows There's nothing like a great duo. That's why they are creating the new Jack links duos, this new product line. It brings two flavors together in one bag. And so they've got a lot of different flavor combinations to give you the best of

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It's really great. Okay Five through one What do we got? All right five Donovan Ezraku Boston College for Shamar Stewart Texas A&M three Nick Scorton, Texas A&M to Mike Green from Marshall and One Abdul Carter from Penn State and yes The biggest takeaway of me reading off these top five is that I am fully leaning into the Donovan Ezraku experience I have grown I've adapted Fully fully youully you say.

You only have him at number five. Oh is he two for you? No no no no. Let me tell you how much I wanted him to be two. You should have just done it. I should have done it. I did this with Mike Green months ago but now it's cool. It's cool. Everybody's doing it. I wanted so bad, but I went back and I specifically I watched cuz so much of of of Donovan as a rock who is Testing and how he talks about the game and how he approaches things his football IQ And just like so much tells me that this guy is gonna be a stud But I watch his game and he is just a little bit stiff Yeah, when it comes to when he's rushing the passer and the guys who are above him, I'm not worried about that at all whatsoever.

Ultimately, I have Shemar Stewart at number five. I have Adon Vanezeraku at number four. I have James Pierce Jr. at number three. I have Mike Green at number two. And I have, of course, Abdul Carter at number one. So you're a Pierce believer, true and true. It's hard for me to not be because he is so athletically gifted.

I would I just want to take a chance on this kind of player. I thought he played with a little bit more power this year than he did the previous season, which I was very encouraged by. If you want him to spot drop as an outside linebacker, he can do that for you. He showed that in the bowl game against Iowa two years ago. And it is so rare that you get a player who accelerates explosively and yet does it as smooth

as James Pierce Jr. does it. And I think that showed up at the combine when they were going through the on the field drills. It is just so hard for me to not bet on this type of athlete at the position when being an athlete is paramount to success. So yes, I understand that it's not the home run. There's a risk to it. He is much more of a finesse player than you would want him to be, but he has built the way that you would want to be built.

He's got the long arms, he's got the explosiveness, he played better with leverage and power this season, and I've just, I gotta take a chance on a player like this. Obviously I don't know anything about the Duke because I didn't interview him or anything like that from a team perspective, but what I see on the field, it's hard for me to not be all in on that. It's really not. I get it. He is a volatile prospect. It's there is like the way they use him.

The fact that he's kind of built like a speed guy, but likes to play like a power guy. It's even down to, I mean, I'm joking about this, but like, it's like, hey, why are you running your 40 in a hoodie? And it's like, oh, I've I forgot. It's like, dude, this is the biggest moment of your life. I don't love that. I don't. I'm trying not to look too much into it, but I don't love that. I don't love that.

He still ran well, obviously. I know that's me being an old man yelling at the clouds, but I was like, what? So, no, I get it. I mean, I have him at seven, so it's not like I'm just out on Pierce, and I think his ability- Dude, I mean, 93rd percentile 10 yard split. Oh no, he has the goods.

97th percentile 40 yard dash. He has the goods. 84th percentile broad jump. 87th percentile height. 61st percentile wingspan. 10th, 60th percentile hand size it's You you got to draft this player in the first round unless he unless he's absolutely bought in and right unless he bombs Any personality test you have this is a first round player really is yep

Yeah, he's I am I'm a little scared of him, but I I get it like I get it. Let's let's talk about Shamar Stewart and Nick's Gordon real quick. Look everybody knows Abdul Carter's good. He's good. Everybody knows that Mike Green is good The on field tape is fantastic. We've talked about Donovan as a rock who but I think the Texas A&M guys They've been up and down for us. I think throughout this process Ultimately, you had Nick Skordin at three, and you had Shamar at four. Yep. I have Shamar at five, and I have Nick Skordin at six,

I believe. Yes, so just really flipping where those guys are in terms of one after the other, and then you're a little bit higher on both of them. So talk to me about both of these guys. Skordin to me, it's weird how people don't give him the benefit of the doubt of the fact he's going to be 20 on draft night. So this is a player that is going to continue to get better and better.

And I thought what we saw from him as a 18 year old at Purdue was fantastic. And I think it's more revealing of the player that he actually is. I thought he was lighter. I thought he was twitchier. I thought he was allowed to pin his ears back more and get after the quarterback. While in A&M system, he was heavier and he got that weight back down at the combine to test and show like,

hey, this is more of the kind of player that I am. Great effort, great hustle, spin move. Like I said, you watch him against Ursory in 2023. I think there's a lot to liken that matchup. Knockback power in the hands. I think he could play standing to like in that matchup. Knockback power in the hands. I think he could play standing up. I think he could play with his hand in the dirt. So I'm just a big fan of Skorton.

I think he's become underrated. I know the production wasn't what people wanted this year, but I think that scheme held him back. And when you look at Shamar, obviously he's a size athleticism freak. I'm not confident that he's just going to magically finish all these plays at the next level that he has not finished the last three years. He misses a ton of tackles. The balance is a problem when he gets into the backfield. But as a disruptor, he is a problem.

Like he knows how to shoot gaps. He knows how to kind of angle his way by blockers at his size, which is remarkable. He's got this gazelle sideline range where if a quarterback is trying to escape, he's going to cut off the angle and be able to contain them. So I mean, I like these guys a lot. I think that I'm not bought in that Shamar is going to be the superstar that a lot of people want him to be. He might just be a nice player. While Skorton, I would argue the opposite. I am so perplexed why people don't see

upside in him for a guy that when his name is called on draft night, he's 20 years old. And I thought 2023 he was a dominant force. The only real concerns I have about scoring, because I went back and I watched two more games of him before this because I really wanted to have a good opinion on score. And the only thing that really worries me is he does not. He does not have the measurables that I once thought that he did when I watched him at Purdue and he was listed that the height was bigger. I figured that the arms are a little bit shorter, but his arms ended up being 29th percentile. His weight ended up being 33rd percentile, his height is 21st percentile.

So he is just not nearly as big and long of a player as I thought he was when I was really watching him at Purdue. And I think that that's to his credit because he was winning so much at Purdue that it made you think that he was bigger and longer than he really was. And when I watch him at Texas A&M, the feet fire like quick pistons. They really do. He's able to get up the field and cover ground pretty quickly I don't I wonder if the long the lack of arm length is going to get in the way of him being a backfield producer like coming up with sacks and tackles for loss I

think that the fast hands allow him to get to those swipes into a club rip and things like that But it does hinder his ability to totally get off blocks clean Like I think there's a lot of plays where Nick Skorton will do the right thing He'll execute a pass rush move and he'll sort of like get even with the offensive lineman, right? He'll get like shoulder to shoulder and he's like about to turn the corner and get by with the block But he doesn't quite get off the block. Like I think that's just because of some of that lack of length and just a

little bit of a lack of stride length too. Remember we talked about this, right with wide receivers. We've talked about it with corners. We've talked about it with running backs. When you were a smaller player, physically you don't cover as much ground because your strides aren't as long. I think that's the case with Nick Skorton as well. The feet fire very quickly, but he doesn't have these long stretches where he's covering a ton of ground.

That's the difference between him and Stuart and why Stuart is so alluring because when Stuart fires through a gap, holy shit, he's sitting there running back in two steps. Like you have no time to react. Without a doubt. Because he's just this massive human being. So not only is he explosive, he's got these long strides, he's got these long arms to him. So you know what I'll say about Stewart,

and I totally agree with you, I don't know if he's ever really going to be this great backfield producer in the NFL. I don't think it's going to be the case, but his past year's win percentage was at least better than the one and a half sacks we've seen from him in each of the last three years. He was 15.8% in 2023. It was only 11.8% this past season, but you know, I mean, again, that's, that's right around like Mike L Williams. So if you love Mike L Williams, I feel like you got to be a fan of Shamar Stewart at least a little bit there. I've got Stewart ahead of Williams. I have

Nick Skorton ahead of Williams as well. But that's sort of our thoughts on the Texas A&M guys. Cause I think there are a lot of people are all over the place with them. Yeah. I know some people want to dream big with Shamar and I get it. Like there is a lot to like there in terms of traits, the NFL giraffes traits and he has them. And you know, the one closing point on Skorton is that because he nailed it, he's just smaller than you'd expect in height and length. He's got huge hands like those 10 inch hands. They rock blockers backward.

And that's what something I really liked about Jared verse. And I hope Skorton can kind of keep using that in his arsenal. There we go. We'd love to hear from you guys. Defensive tackles, edge rushers. Those are our top 20s and some guys that are a little bit out of the top 20. If there's somebody that we did not mention on the show that you would love to hear our thoughts on, fire off in the comment section. YouTube.com backslash NFL stock exchange is the best way to do that.

We would love to hear your edge rush rankings as well, just like we did with wide receivers and running backs. We got two weeks to the draft folks. We know love to hear your edge rush rankings as well, just like we did with wide receivers and running backs. We got two weeks to the draft folks. We know you guys got takes on it. Give us your top five. Even if it's just a top five, I'd love to see them. I'd love to read them. I'd love to go back and forth to the lot of you guys comments are the best way to do that. Also, you can follow the show at NFLSE show on Twitter, on Instagram, on Tik TOK now on arena as well at Tampa Bay tray at Connor J Rogers.

Those are our personal handles. You can find us over on Twitter, on Instagram and again at arena too. So that's a, that's all for us this week. We will be back with another collab mock draft at the beginning of next week. And then are we going to do one more position ranking? I can't remember what's on our schedule because, dude. We're almost there. Dude, two weeks?

Two weeks? That's it? Then we have our post-draft party. You mean the 2 AM party after night one? Yeah. If you're not there, the streets are saying, you are a loser if you don't come watch that. So yeah, just so everybody knows,

we will once again be live at like 1 AM after round one of the 2025 NFL draft. Last year we had almost, I think 3000 people watching live and it was a blast. The comments, the chat were going crazy. We were reacting and we were getting given our grades and our thoughts of the craziness that was night one. So Put that in your plans. We would love to see in the chat We would love to talk to you guys after night one So I wanted to make sure that I shouted that out as well go download the arena app this this podcast

Is sponsored by arena go download the arena app. Like we said, we're gonna be doing exclusive content over there It's the it's the best way to get to see that and we'd love to interact with you guys over on that app as well. Once we get into the season, it'll be a lot of fun with a lot of the DFS stuff, a lot of the news, a lot of the reactions, all that good stuff. For Connor Rogers, I'm Trevor Sikamas saying thank you guys so much for watching and listening to the NFL Stock Exchange, yo. See you guys next week. Thanks for watching!