Nightcap - BEST OF NFL NEWS Part 1: Jerry Jones Circus + Brian Flores vs the NFL

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

Unc & Ocho are back with their WILDEST NFL takes of the week! Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson react to Jerry Jones turning the Cowboys into a straight-up clown show. Plus, lawsuits the NFL faces against Brian Flores and Jon Gruden respectively. Don’t miss the debates, the laughs, and the hottest NFL storylines right here on Nightcap! 0:00 - Bengal looking to trade Trey Hendrickson? 12:05 - Jerry Jones running a circus in Dallas? 21:22 - Brian Flores vs the NFL 34:20 - Latest on Cam Heyward, Steelers negotiation 46:29 - Jon Gruden vs the NFL   (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the Bengals have been actively engaged in trade discussions surrounding Trey Hendrickson for weeks. According to teams, they've reached out to Cincinnati only seeking draft capital in return. They're also targeted defensive players in a potential deal. Last season, Hendrickson ranked first in sack, first in pressure, sixth in pressure rates, third in havoc plays, second in tackle for losses. The last two seasons off the field, Hendricks, a defense. With him off to field, Ocho, you're 30 second in pressure rate, 30 second in success rate,

30 second in pass rating. when he's on the field your top 12 in pressure rates top 12 in success rate top 12 in pass rating I don't understand this this is what I don't understand you knew you weren't going to play him

they knew that Ocho but what they thought he was going to do what he did last year oh he'll come in he told you he wasn't just like Chase said if y'all pulled that bulljah if y'all did last year I'm not coming in he said he wasn't coming

right y'all knew y'all wouldn't say i don't understand it ocho why would you not move him before the draft and get somebody get a draft pitch i don't listen i i have no idea i thought maybe i'm thinking maybe maybe mike brown katy troy duke understanding that trade hendixen loves not just a team but loves the game of football and maybe he would fold at some point and come back And obviously he's one that understands the business. And you got to hit while the fire is hot. You got to hit while the stove is hot.

And this is his time. This is his time to hit based on what he's done, not just last year, but the previous year as well. But then you also look at it from their viewpoint, well, hell, you had 17 sacks last year, but our defense was horrible. But you paid your quarterback and your two wide receivers. But our offense was phenomenal. So let me make sure I hear just right. This is what Trey Ringo said. He said, let's recap.

The Bengals have a generational Hall of Fame quarterback. They paid their two top targets. Despite all this, they missed a playoff last season because their defense was terrible. So how do they fix that? By listening to trade offers for the best defensive player, unsigned defensive, and Trey Hendrickson.

This is how management fails its players. Kyle Brand said, if the Bengals trade, Trey Hendrickson, it would just be the second time in the modern era that a player has led the NFL's in SAC. and to be traded the following season. The only other time that happened, Kansas City traded Hall of Famer Jared Allen to Minnesota in 2008.

Allen was first team, all pro, three times with the Vikings. Well, I mean, the reports are saying that they are listening to trade offers. Yeah, they listen to trade offers. Oh, Joe, but you knew you weren't going to pay him. He had them made it abundantly clear. you guys so whatever y'all worked behind things he's like okay he came back okay maybe if i get close there they see me there hey we can engage again they were unwilling he's not going to take what you're going to offer him 17 to half sacks in back-to-back years they're not very many guys that's

played since the sack became an official stat in 1982 right have put together 17 to half sacks in back-to-back seasons he's done that I just don't know how you think you got Ocho, if you couldn't stop anybody with him, who the hell you're stopping without him? We saw last year, Chase had the triple crown. Burrow led the league in, what, passing yards and passing touchdowns, and you missed the playoffs because your defense was atrocious. And what do you do?

Clearly, the guy that's leap years ahead of everybody on your defense. It's not even close. And remember, Ocho, you release press. You're linebacker. Yeah. He wanted the deal as well. Brad went to the Raiders. Go ahead, don't you?

I got a take, my. Oh, yeah. Okay, chat. Me, listen. It's the business. Understand how the business works. I think the Bengals see it is we were very bad defensively last year with you. You just got worse.

You just got worse. Yeah, I mean, listen. I mean, you never know. Samar Stewart. What will Samar Stewart be for us this year? He's a rookie. I'm not saying we're counting on a rookie to come in. How many rookies have ever had 17 sacks in a season?

I'm not saying he's going to get 17, huh? I'm just saying the way the business works, paying you top dollar and you're bringing a rookie that's on what? Who knows? A minimal salary. Minimal salary and can come in and contribute. He might not get 17 sacks, but

we'll do, maybe not a good job at Trey Henderson, but be efficient. The most sacks ever by a rookie is Javon Curran's in 1999. He had 14 and a half. And listen, no dishees. I'm not going to be disrespected. No, I don't know if he's freak. We'll have to see, but Freak was special.

I played against Freak. Oh, yeah, he was the real deal. He was the real deal. I'm excited, though. I mean, I'm excited. I mean, listen, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't think whatever does happen, I are identity in Cincinnati, our identity is our offense. And I said it, and I say it again. I don't know what we're going to do

defensively, but we have to improve from last year. We don't need you to be the best defense in the world. We don't need to be the best. Wait, let me, let me finish. I need to be somewhere in the middle of the pack, 15, 16, be able to make stops when it matters most. I don't need to be number one. I don't need you to be number two. I don't need to be three, four, or five. I just meet us halfway. Meet the offense halfway. 15, 16, 17, somewhere around there, we're going to be all right. If you had a Pats or Tan, if you had a Stingley, if you had a Salt Gardner, you had a Ramsey, if you had one of those top guys, I could say, okay, Ocho, you can hold up a little longer

to get up guys, but y'all don't have that. Y'all best defensive player hands down, and it wasn't even close, it's Trey Hendrickson. Mm-hmm. Ocho, you guys scored 38 and lose 41-38. Ocho, you guys go 35 and lose 38-35. Because you couldn't get off the field.

Yeah. With that being said, I don't know how. You're going to improve. I don't know if you've made that big of an improvement defensively, even with Stewart. He will have to be curse,

Micah, Aaron Donald. L.T. You're going to have to have those kind of seasons, though, Joe. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know. Listen, you've been around the game for a long time. We've seen situations like this happen and occur on many other teams. They don't feel he's worth the price tag that he's asking for. They've already paid T.

They've already played Chase. They played Joe. I mean, I mean, this is just, he's the odd man out. He's the odd man out. And now they're listening to trade offers. But you know, well, maybe if you trade him, where you can't trade it for Micah because you can't pay Micah

I'm trying to say who you're going to trade who can you trade him for because if you trade them just for a draft pick you don't get nothing to help you this year and you need help this year time out rewind that rewind him right back now you just got me excited

you just got me excited I don't know how much money is left over none I don't know anything they can manipulate the cap and make it happen is there any way any scenario that we can get Michael Parsons.

You could have three guys making over $40 million on your roster? Hey, I like the way that sound. You won't even pay Tray Hendrickson $30 million, but you're going to give Michael Parsons $43, $44 million? I can ask you a question?

How old is Trey Hendrickson? Ask Herald Trey. 32? 30. How old is Michael Parsons? 25. He came out early, so he might be 26. 26.

Now ask me that question again, would they pay him 43? No. They wouldn't. They wouldn't. They wouldn't. I can ask right now. I can call personnel right now on the phone. First of all, they're not paying a $55 million quarterback, a $43, $4.3.4.

$45 million defensive player a $41 million wire receiver and a $30 million wire receiver they're not having that they're not paying that

hold on they just Ocho y'all just started spending money two years ago with borough think about all the great players that you guys

have had that have left right I'm gonna call somebody upstairs It's hypothetical. I'm going to see what they say. Damn, I like that.

That's crazy. DJ Hill, Chris Jenkins. I don't know, Ocho. Y'all might be in the same situation again. No, I don't think so. Hey, I have a question. Would it be rude if I call Zach and ask that? That's rude, huh?

You ask whatever you want to ask it. That's not offensive, right? It's just a regular question. Regular question for what? To ask Zach Taylor, if I call and ask. Is that rude? You can ask him whatever you want to, Ocho. We'll sit right here and watch, wait.

I don't know if the chat believe you call it in, but, oh, sure, we'll hold on. Yeah, I'm texting, look. Can you see that on? No. I said, I said, Coach, are you up? I want to make sure you up. I don't want to call it.

It's 12 o'clock. They play tomorrow, so I don't know. It's 12.19. They playing in D.C. What's the time difference in D.C.? Dallas is on central time. D.C. is on Eastern time. so oh it's 1219

I call Eby you know Eby right you know Eric Ball no no Eric Ball played with the Bengals when you was playing with um with um with David I think yeah but David Fulcher yeah DB no uh no wait oh you're running back

I think Eric Eric I think Eric ball might have been the running back. I think you probably know, you probably know him when you see him. He's been over there since I was there. Before I got there. Yeah, Eric Barrow, yeah, yeah. Part of player, I forgot, I don't know how to pronounce

the, uh, community, like community relations guys. Yeah, I think his, he's, or he's the player personnel department. Yeah, yeah, yeah, part of player engagement. It might be so. Hey, guys, it's AZ Fudd. You may know me as a gold medalist. You may know me as an NCAA national champion and recent most outstanding player.

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Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the. the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, I probably something like that, something like that. Oh, Joe, Jerry Jones continues to believe all the, all publicity is good publicity. Jerry said, I do believe that if we're not being looked at, then I'll do my part to get us looked at. The beautiful thing for networks or if you were streaming companies is that the NFL is a 365 day a year interest factory.

A lot of programming. you have to spend as much to promote as you do to make it. The Cowboys are so proper 365 days a year. When it gets slow, I'll stir it up. Ocho, Jerry said he'd be stirring the pot. Listen, man, everybody in the chat. I use this moniker. I use this phrase.

I use this analogy last night. I don't think Jerry Jones understands the product that he owns and controls. Frank Lucas In American Gangsley He had Blue Magic It was the best product Out there in the business In the world

You didn't have to do anything To it Because it's soul itself Jerry Why are you cutting it up You don't need to cut it up In any smaller pieces For to do what it's going to do

Without you in the picture It's going to sell itself No matter what The Cowboys will always be talked about when you come out and say something or not, because it's the Cowboys. I don't, listen, I don't, he's not in the business of winning. He continues to show us that time and time again. He's in the business of making money.

He's in the business of, you said, he's in the business of making money. He is great at that. And that's just what it is. I feel sorry for the fans, you know, I feel sorry for the players that are, that have to deal with that, you know, you want to play for the Cowboys, you want to play for America team. got to start on the helmet, but it's more of a circus than it is a football team than the one at the top.

Success on any team, it starts at the top. Yep. It just triggers on down. But if the circus starts at the top, what do you think the product is going to look like? Come on, man. It don't got to be Sunday for me to preach. Come on, man. That's a, man.

You know, hey, look. Jerry, but come on, now. The cowboys, I think I just. read today, the Cowboys are worth $12.8 billion. The most expensive franchise, not just North America of all sports franchises. Basketball, football, baseball,

these soccer teams, euro, all that, nothing. If it's a sports club, sports franchise, nothing is more valuable than the Cowboys. Yeah. Nothing. Hey, the man is in the business of making money.

You hear me? That's it. I don't have a problem with that. But don't try to disguise and talk about you care about winning because you don't. No. You care about selling tickets. You care about keeping interest in your team, not about winning. Hey, actions speak louder in the words.

Yeah. Action show otherwise. And based on his actions, it lets us know I'm in the business of lining my pockets and staying the most profitable sports franchise in the world. That's it. And then if he's okay with that, then so be it. But he does set a precedent. Yeah.

He sets a precedent to the coaches. He sets a precedent to the players. And the way he conducts himself when it comes to business. But it is what it is. It's the cabb. It's a magazine. I heard Emmett at this docu-series. Yeah.

The other night when he was at Netflix and he was talking about at some point in time it comes down to the players because that's what we did. Emmett. So who are, who, I want to know to Emmett Smith. The Michael Irwin, Michael Irvin was the leader of the team. Yes, sir. And then you had Haley and you look at the guys that you had. You had Jimmy.

You had Jimmy. And then y'all got Dion. If you don't get Dion, y'all not going to be, if he stays in San Francisco, guess who winning? San Francisco. He's flipped the balance of power. Yeah. Y'all don't have a level of players, Amy.

I'm sorry. You don't. you don't you look at you look at the defense that they had back then boy we're loaded right they were loaded boy we're loaded look at that offensive line they had big easy they had a Larry Allen they had Nate Newton I think they still had step I think two and they were still there man stop that offensive line y'all got Troy was probably one of the most accurate

quarterbacks, especially for that time? Right. Different. Different. But you got to realize, Jimmy wasn't doing all this talking back there, neither, no, in it. Jimmy, Jimmy wasn't having that.

That's why he got Jimmy up out of there. Yeah. He wasn't doing all this talking. I don't know about you on show, but I was in the league. Mm-hmm. I was in the league. And I know it wasn't no 24-hour news cycle,

but in press conference, They had no mics in front of Jimmy. I mean, in front of Jerry. The mice were in front of Jimmy, and it drove Jerry crazy. Damn. That's crazy. But I agree with you.

The Cowboys brand is so strong. You ain't got to say none. Nothing. We're going to talk about it regardless. Yeah. Outlets, analysts, punts, podcasts, people on the show. Street in the barbershop.

I don't remember. I don't remember you, hey, you ever hear Mr. Kraft talk? Prior to the Super Bowl, I hear him talking to the NFC championship game when they get the trophy or that two, that, that, that, that, that, when he getting the trophy.

So he's normally getting trophies when he's talking. Yeah, yeah. Jerry talking to hear himself talk, like man, forgot what my voice heard. Like, I ain't been on no, I ain't been on no platform and got no trophy at a long time. So, you heard, you heard what, you heard what Denzel Washington said.

with that opinionaires? Yeah, he, no, I'm talking about the other, you know, he's... Oh, he's on by Jerry, Jerry, oh, he said Jerry about making money. That's it. That's it. That's it. I believe you can do two things that I don't believe they have to be mutually exclusive. I believe you can make money and still win. Yeah.

Yeah, you can. The Patriots did it for 20 years. The Chiefs have done it for about a decade now. Right. But then, you know, his retort to what you just said would be, Well, they made money. They won Super Bowls, but I'm still the most profitable franchise.

Yeah. Would I much rather be number one in that area? If I can't be number one on the field. Well, the Cowboys of America's team when they didn't have Jerry Jones. So what are he talking about? Hmm. Hey.

He didn't name him America's team. They had the stadium with the hole in the top so God could watch his team. he didn't do none of that. Right. So this notion that he created this, he didn't. All the teams have exponentially increased. I mean, you could, for what one year's salary

or what a quarterback make, you used to be able to buy a franchise. Go back and look at somebody's franchise what they paid for. Yeah. Now, that was, I mean, that was a boatload of money back then in the Earth 70s and, you know,

that was a boatload of money. But I'm just saying, And today, you know, they've 10x, 15, 20 X their money. Oh, yeah. So, Jerry probably 50xed his money. But with that being said, I don't believe that you have to do all that. Jerry wasn't like this. Like I said, Al Davis was his mentor.

That's who taught him. He's Al Davis. Al Davis has always been a Maverick, always did things his way. And, you know, he's like, I'm moving. I'm going to L.A. No, you got to get vote. I ain't got to get nothing. It's my team.

I bought it. I'm moving. And he sued the league to move. And he sued. He just, I'm going back to Oakland. No, you're not. You got, no, I'm going by. I'm suing.

Mm-hmm. And that's how Jerry is. Jerry's like, no, I'm not going to be a part. I'm going to be a part of the collective bargaining when it comes to, excuse me, I'm going to be a part of the revenue sharing when it comes to TV. After that, I'm on my own. Right. I'm going to do my own independent deals.

He has a deal with Pepsi. He has his own deals. He has his own merchandising deal. He's like, no, I'll do that revenue share when it comes to TV. Right. But other than that, because I can do a better job than you. Got no problem with that. But.

It's unfortunate. At the end of the day, bro. right now we're doing it talking. Yeah. You ain't collecting no trophies. The second U.S. Court of Appeals in Manhattan ruled that the NFL can be put on trial over civil claims that Brian Flores and other black coaches face discrimination. Okay.

Everywhere of 2022, Flores sued the NFL and several teams saying the league was rife with racism, particularly in its hiring and promotion of basketball. black coaches. Other coaches later joined the lawsuit as plaintiffs. Ocho, I don't know how close you followed this, but I've always felt the way the NFL did business with this discipline was unfair. And God, if you've heard me from CBS, I was on their decade. I was with Fox for seven years. And I like to use this analogy. Ocho, if I got a speeding ticket, I shouldn't have to go appeal it. to the chief of police because it was his department

that gave me the ticket. I've always thought it was unfair. The NFL hands down this punishment and if I want to go appeal it, guess who I'll appeal it to? Right. The commissioner. Yes, sir.

Or someone he appointed. How is that fair? It should be an independent body. That's why they have a court system. That's why they have the police. They're two separate but equal entities. Yes, sir.

So I've always felt this was a very, very unfair practice. They've always been able to hide behind Article 46. Yes, sir. But you gave commission. And he's everything. He's everything. He's the jury. He's the judge.

He's everything. That is so, so unfair. Yes, sir. Even if you have these broad latitudes of power, I've always felt the commissioner should get out of the punishment business. let someone else handle that let it be an independent body the NFL and the NFL PA should have an independent body right because you're never everybody feel they're going to get they're going to get an unfair hearing right if the I'm appealing to the head of the entity that handed down the

punishment but this is this is the thing on let's let's understand the ecosystem and the power and the powers that be when it comes to the NFL let's say say if it does go to an independent body. Do you understand, even would it be an independent body, independent body, a separate entity away from the NFL, do you know who still controls the power? Do you know how they're going to be swayed still, where justice is still not going to be due, even though it's a different entity? Do you understand that?

I do. Understanding the power structure that you're going up against, the chances of winning is slim to none, whether it comes from the commission himself. or whether it's a different governing body. I do believe I have a better. Let me ask you a question. If I get a speeding ticket, do you think I got a better chance

of going to the court or going to the chief of police and having him hear it? Because think about what happens when police officers do something wrong. It's few and far between that their own department, IA.

Internal Affairs or the governing body that represents the police, the union, discipline them. Yes, you're right. You're right. There's a greater chance that the court, and now, you know, look, the court system has said, you know, hey, whew, that imminent.

Hey, hey, any threat, be it real or perceived. Let that sink in, Ocho. Yeah. Real or perceived. Yes. Yes. Woo. You have to understand.

And you know well, for those that don't understand, maybe on the outside. looking in, even with this ruling, now being able to be or go to court? Oh, they're going to appeal it now. Even if they appeal it, you understand the animal and the power structure that you're going up against the machine? I have a question, huh? Yes. In the history, in the history of law in general, how many times have the people, even those have been discriminated against, even those who serve right and deserve justice, how many times the machine loss, huh? It doesn't happen often, but you can't get deterred.

Right, right. Just imagine if Dr. King would have gotten disturbed or deterred or all those people that marched in the 50s and the 60s had gotten deterred, Rosa Parks, and she had said, you know what, ain't nothing going to change, so let me just go here and give my seat up. You know what? I'm glad you just said that, right?

I'm glad you just said that. So everything we've been through in the 50s, right? The 60s, all those that sacrifice. Yes. We had one that sacrificed even recently. Brother Kaepernick, take the knee. Yes. Standing for something.

Yes. I have a question for you. Yes. Has anything changed since then? In the NFL? No, no, not the NFL in general. Just with everyone you just named, but 50, 60, 70, 80s, 80s, yes.

Happening. Has anything changed yet? It doesn't seem like it, Ocho. It seems like if we take a step forward, we take a couple of steps back. Okay. But if you... Talk to me. Think about your grandparents. Yes, sir.

Then your parents was in that same situation. And you said, ain't nothing changed. So I might as well just stay in the same Liberty City, do what they did, and not try my damnedest to improve the situation. Right. Where would we be? We try our damnedest to improve the situation. situations, right? That's what you could do.

Talk to, wait, let me, stay with me real quick. Now, there was a time in the 50s, in the 60s, where they were able to wear their hoods, huh? Yes. Daylight, in broad daylight. Yes. Because it was accepted. So now they've gone away from that part.

So the hoods are gone. Yes. Now they wear roads. Now they hold gables. Right. Now they have suits and ties on. Now they have positions of power to where, okay, it seems like, things that change

or things may be different but it really hasn't because now they're just in positions of power and controlling everything and that's what they do and that's that's the way the system is to me it's all about understanding the system

and being able to fight it being able to fight it and understanding that I'm going to do all I can to try and improve the situations around me it makes some type of impact but the way the ecosystem is built in general the way it's structured

is built for you to never win. But you have to understand how long. They would never allow us to ever get in position to be able to make that change. And the ones who do that look like us that happen to get them and where the suit and ties to, you got to play by their rules.

But see what you did? You see what you said? But when we get a chance to get in that position, do we lift someone up? Or do we kick the ladder and says, I'm up on the top of the roof now. So I'm good. I'm up here.

I don't want nobody to look like that. you join me up here. Stay, stay one more time, though. Listen to what I said. Yes. When they do allow you and put you in positions of power, you have to play their game by their rules. That's why they even letting you get in that position to begin with.

Sometimes that's correct, but you have to look at it, Ocho. Think about a system that's been in place for as long as it has. Right. Do you think you're going to dismantle a system that's been in place for 400 years in 30 years? Mm-mm. Mm-mm. You're not.

I know one thing. That system that's been in place for how, how long has been in. If they allow you to be in that position of power, you better play by their rules. And there's an understanding that you have to do that

in order to be there. But I mean, this is a great topic. You know, I'm not one to really talk about politics and stuff like that, but I can go. I can go now. But I love the fact. This is, nah. Because they said,

because if you go back and look at the ruling, he said the judge ain't no chance that this is fair under no circumstance at all even if he weren't to appoint someone it's still him so you like an arbitrator that he appointed is going to rule against the man that appointed it right you're right make it makes sense now yeah you right again we go back i got the speeding ticket and i'm going to the i go to the chief of police right okay well guess what the chief's not going to hear we're going to give it to, hey, the corporal, he'll hear it. He's still, no, no, no, no, no.

It needs to be a separate body. That's why the police, they do what they do. And then guess what? Your job is done. We go into court. Yeah. And now we have a whole different body with 12 men and women that's going to determine it. Right.

Yeah. Because if it was left up to the police, they would have 100%. Yeah. 100%. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely, but just in this case, what happened with Brother Flores and other coaches that look like us. My notice for that matter, I love that they're standing on Venice in general and they're going to get in court.

But I also do understand the other dynamic of it and understanding who you're fighting against. Yeah. Oh, they got a lot of money. They can throw a lot of, look. The funny thing about it, the thing about it is not even about the money. it's the power in which they can sway any ruling to make sure they're not at fault because that fight that they're fighting about,

it's still going on today with opportunities not being given to certain individuals that look at a certain way. Nothing has changed. Also, when it comes to the quarterback position, that's still prevalent in today's game as well. Yeah. I don't want to dive deep

and go into it and go in depth, but there's so many different layers I can peel back right now that i choose not to do but listen only a blind man only a blind man would not understand what i'm talking about no only a man to choose not to understand what you're talking about those that can see and don't know and they're going to play maybe naive yeah and dumb to the situation when the facts are clear as day that you can see come on man let's not do that but uh hey the man gets to have his day in court and we'll see what happens and then you know you go from there, but I can assure you they're going to appeal this.

Nevada Supreme Court has ruled in favor of former head Raiders head coach John Gruden in his appeal against the NFL. Bruden will get discovery and a day in court alleging that Commissioner Roger Goodell and the NFL improperly leaked his email leading to his firing. Yeah. And, hey, that's, hey, now that's another one that's going to be interesting. that's another one that's going to be interesting. Well, you can't appeal.

And now, they might appeal this to the Supreme Court. Right. They might supreme. Because the Nevada Supreme Court said, no, no, no, no. He gets the score. He gets discused. Because, Ocho, you got to realize it's $70 million at stake. He had a 10-year, $100 million deal.

They fired him. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that's guaranteed, though. You know, when coaching. They didn't pay it because they, cause. He got fired for calls. So they're probable cause.

and getting fired, then that's like a player getting in trouble, conduct judgment to the team, we can take that money back. Okay, I didn't know that part. Yes. I didn't know that part. Okay, okay. So would I be surprised if they went all the way to the Supreme Court? Yes, sir.

Absolutely would not. The NFL doesn't like to take L's. Right. Because remember, you take one, then everybody else feels like, hey, we got him vulnerable, we got it weak, we can jump on. Do we all they take, look how big the giraffe feels. All it takes is for one line. to weigh him down

and then here come to rest. Everybody else. That's how they get the, unless they catch it napping. Every once in a while, they'll catch one napping. He'll let it get too late in the day. And he's still rested

and they catch him. But for the most part, one of those big males on his back. Yeah, it's a wrap. That's 400 pounds. And he's like, hey, he can't support that.

And here he comes. Yeah. But look, the NFL, they've made it a barely abundantly clear in the appellate court against Brian Flores, they're going to appeal. I can see them appealing this all the way to the Supreme Court. He's still the defense coordinator in Minnesota.

He absolutely is. Hey guys, it's AZ Fudd. You may know me as a gold medalist. You may know me as an NCAA national champion and recent most outstanding player. You may even know me as a People's Princess. But now, you're also going to know me as your favorite host. Every week on my new podcast, Fud around and find out,

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But this show is the only place where you can really fud around and find out Listen to fud around and find out A production of IHart women's sports And partnership with unanimous media On the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jake Hofer

And this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt Part of Meat Eat Eater's podcast network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros A focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm

with less than ideal access? Should you, that's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people

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The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just can't replicate, you can't get back. Showing up to locker room every morning just to shit talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar AZ Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two.

And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast. College football season is here, and you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before Halloween.

Uh-huh, but fear not. The Solid Verbal will be right there with you through every soul-crushing loss, an impossible comeback. Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Whether you're a die-heart fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and, of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. We don't just love college football, tie.

We live it. Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Uh-oh, Joe. Cam Hayward is open to setting out regular season games in search of a raise. Cam Hayward, who the 22nd highest-paid D-T, said he's looking to be value. It's hard for me after the year I had to really justify playing at that number I'm playing at. Hayward said the team asked him to take a pay cut last summer.

They ironed out a rework deal instead that runs through 2026. Hayward responded by bouncing back from an injury marred 20-23 season, defending for eight sacks, 71 tackles, 11 past defense, as the Steelers went 10 and 7 and reached the playoffs for the fourth time in five years. Right.

Hey, listen, Cam Heber said, I can't play a 15 million. Now, those that are on the outside watching, fans, NFL fans, oh, the first thing going to say, oh, my goodness, you can't play on $15 million. They don't see it from that perspective

of actually being an athlete, being an all-pro player, and being a detackle that, I'm not sure when it comes to D tackles, where he's ranked, when the company tackles in the NFL right now, as far as where he should be slated at. Lexington Lawrence, one of the betters, the Ed Oliver's, one of the betters.

He's different because he's a five technique, because there are three, four defense. So he's not, he's not like, in your typical, like a Warren Sapp. He's not like Aaron Donald, what Aaron Donald was in the 43. He's a three, four, he's more of a JJ Watt. He's a five technique. Right. And so I don't want to, I'm going to try to keep it simple.

But if you notice, they got two lines, they got a nose tackle. They got two ends and they got two linebackers. So they got four linebackers, a Sam on a wheel, a mic and a plug. And they got three down linemen. He's what we call a five technique. He's a defensive end, but he's played a five technique. Not the three technique or what we call the under tackle that Joe Green made famous and the Warren Saff, the Johnny Randles, and the Aaron.

Donald's, those type of guys. He's a fire check. And so with that being said, but the Steelers said, hold on, bro, we just redid your contract. Last year. Last year. Yeah, but Unk, they asked him to take a pay cut. They asked him to take a pay cut. I'm assuming because

of his injury and his play might have been down. So is it warranted that it gets a raise after making all-go? He should have to sign a one-year deal. I agree with you, Ojo. Look. Yeah. I'm just from a Steelers perfect. perspective.

Okay, Ocho, you come in there, you're like, oh, hey, bro, I want to, hey, man, I need such and such. Well, you know, Ocho, you didn't have the best year now. Okay. So what you're thinking? Well, how about this? We're going to do this. We're going to give you $29 million for the next two years.

Okay. Well, that's the risk that you run. because what he didn't expect was for the defensive market to explode like it has. So now what looked like a really good deal is like chicken feed to him. So now you get Miles Garrett.

You got his teammate making $41 million. Miles Garrett, make it $40. You got Nick Bosa. You got Max Crosby. You got Dinell Hunter. You got Michael Parsons. You got all these guys And he's like, hold on

Yeah, he can't compare He can't compare himself Because he played To the line body He has to compare himself To the D-tackles That played a five technique Or other D-Tacles

Christian Wilkins was making $24 million Look at Dexter Lauren Give me the top five Highest Pay the D-Tackles I'm curious I'm curious because I'm not Jeffrey Simmons got to be up there too

Over the end Yes, Simmons, Lawrence, Kristen Wilkins was making $24.5 million. You did get picked up yet? No. Okay. I'm trying to think. Who else? D-Tackles, D-Tackles. Oh, Vita-Bea.

V-A. V-A-V-D-Vat. Got to be top five paid as well. You said it to me? But him being at 22, that's tough. As you're saying it to me. Yeah, I agree to Ocho is that, you know, you're looking at, I mean, at defensive players,

you got like, okay, D-Tackles. Okay, where's the D-Tackles market? The D-Tackle market is in the mid-20s. He's like, bro, I'm at 14 and a half, 15. So what would make it happen? What would make them happy, you think? Maybe 18. Okay.

Chris Jones. Chris Jones is the highest paid at 317-750. What did I think? Matt of Bickway from the Bravens. The Ravens, is it 24 and a half? Alam McNeil from Troy, 24-250. Derek Brown, Carolina, 24. Quentin Williams, 24.

Simons, Jeffrey Simmons. I don't know why I call him, keep having. Simmons. Simmons is 23-5. DeFarge Buckner, Colts, 23. DeRond Payne, Washington, 22-5. Dexter Lawrence, 21-8-75. Kenny Clark.

I got I got something for you right here on I'm gonna tell you how the Rooney's thinking I'm gonna tell you what Tomlin is thinking how old is Cam Heyward cam cam came in in and in in 2011 so he at least 36 at the bare minimum oh they they're not they're not they not doing it they're not doing it they're not 36 coach I did everybody you just name everybody you just name, are they even 30 yet? Jones is. Jones is the best, Chris Jones is the best, best D-tackle in the NFL.

You know? Chris Jones just turned, he's 31. But I don't think Matt of Bikwey, I don't think McNeil, Quinny, I don't think Quinny is, is 20-30? He might be. 36, come on, now.

Quentin Williams, 27? Damn. Listen, you don't remember Quinn Williams when he, uh, on draft night when he sneezed? And he said, he blessed himself. Hey, but 36, I mean, listen, they can, and I see, Ocho, it's going to be hard for them to put, put him in that situation. And, and, because he's like, okay, 15, can you get me to 20?

Okay, what? 20, oh, maybe, you know what we can do? We can give you something to sign a bonus. We'll take some of the money on the back end and bring it on the front end and put it into a sign of bonus so it doesn't affect the cap. But guess what that does? That takes money off next year's cap. That takes money off next year's base salary. And now that 15 is 10.

Yeah. Hey, I'm just trying to find out way. I know it's going to be very difficult. But knowing him and him saying he's going to stand his ground. and not play, that's going to be tough. Because now you're going into a season where you're trying to compete in the division, you have Aaron Rodgers,

and the defense is stacked with all the people that you just added. Your identity now, I'm not calling you the goddamn steel curtain, but with the players you have on paper, you should be very good and be able to compete week in and week out, especially in the NFC North

and against other teams that you do play. I agree. And you are a intricate part of that defense. What matters most. You're one of the captains of the defense. Damn, man, that's tough. That's tough for the Steelers. Ocho, remember the other night, we talked about Dalvin Cook,

and I say his value is somewhere between 11 and 13. Hey, I say, I said 13, 5. So where do you fall at? What? James Cook. James Cook. Yeah, 12. Four years 48.

I said the max did probably be as four years 52, but I can see, you know, 11 to 13. He's going to follow the number 11, 13. I say, he's not, he not, he's not, he not, he not, he got, that 15, he ain't breaking up right here. Right. He's, listen, he got, he got 30, he's going to be all right. He won't see that 30.

Every dollar. So he's going to be all right. But, hey, he's like, nah, y'all are nothing to get me. Y'all been to get me something. I ain't fit to play on this contract. Cam Ward believes he has a top five receiver core in the NFL right now. Ocho, do you believe? lead that the Titans

have a top five receiving core? Top five. Eagles? Let's go to Eagles. Books. Bucks.

Lions. I'm going to Packers in there. Lions. Packers. Vikes. I say if I used it back is already. When Terry McLauron comes back, Him and Debo, even though they haven't played together,

we know what they can do. They've shown enough over the years. What about the Rams? I mean, we're Pooka Nuccau and Devante. Oh, my goodness. Rams, Pooka Nacu, and DeVante Adams. Obviously, we know what Devonty Adams. But listen.

Ooh, Tyreek and Waddle. What about the Bears? Adonze, DJ Moore. Burton. Burden. You know, he, he, he, he, he, he, Oh, hold on. We know what Tyler Locker could do.

We know what Calvin, Calvin Ridley is that boy. Do they have a top five receiving court? I wouldn't say top five. That's all we're on here. I would say top five. Yeah. Hey, they have a very, very good receiver in Calvin Ridley, though. PFF has them at the third worst receiving court.

For real? Well, wait, listen, look. Browns based on Browns are the worst than the Patriots and then they got the Titans. I see. Oh, that's tough way.

I just know they weren't top five. Yeah, you got you got to believe it ain't not top five. But you have to say that. You're the quarterback. Oh, yeah, for sure. You have to feel that way about sometimes you got a lot to them, Mocho.

You got a lot to him. Hey, whoa. How do we didn't even mention C.D. Lamb and George Pickens. Okay. Man. We didn't. But you did. So there you go. You got to feel that way, though. Yeah, for sure. If you don't believe that about your team, who will? Right. And who's the number three over there in Tennessee? Now you got me thinking.

Tyler Lobby, Calvin Ridley. Who's the number three? Chad, who's the number three? Somebody tell me. Who's the number three in our... Number three to number third wide receipt. Van Jefferson. Okay, okay, Van Sala. Van was with the Rams. Yes, it was Pittsburgh. Where was it last year?

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I said it since he first. I said it since he first. I thought so. He was with Pittsburgh last year, oh, Joe. Yeah, Cam, you look. I appreciate you. pumping up your squad, but y'all not top five.

I'm not even sure y'all top ten. When we really get down to it and we start naming, name and receiving cards, Ocho? I'm not sure they're top ten. Hey, I know one thing. Calvin really is that boy. But it's more to make a receiving court, it's more than one.

The Nevada Supreme Court has ruled in favor of former head rater's head coach John Gruden in his appeal against the NFL. Bruden will get discovery and a day in court alleging that Commissioner Roger Goodale and the NFL improperly

leaked his email leading to his firing. Yeah. And, hey, now that's another one that's going to be interesting. That's another one that's going to be interesting.

Well, you can't appeal. Now, they might appeal this to the Supreme Court. Right. They might supreme because the Nevada Supreme Court said, No, no, no, no, he gets the score.

He gets the score. Because, Ocho, you got to realize it's $70 million at stake. He had a 10-year, $100 million deal. They fired him. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that's guaranteed, though. You know, when coaching-

They didn't pay it because they, cause. He got fired for cars. So if they're probable cause and getting fired, then that's like a player getting in trouble, kind of get you into the team. We can take that money back. Okay, I didn't know that part. Yes.

I didn't know that part. Okay, okay. So would I be surprised if, If they went all the way to the Supreme Court, I absolutely would not. The NFL doesn't like to take L's. Right. Because remember, you take one,

then everybody else feels like, hey, we got him vulnerable, we got it, we can jump on. Do we'll eight, look how big the giraffe feels. All it takes is for one lion. Yeah. To weigh them down,

and then here come to rest. Everybody else. That's how they get the, unless they catch it napping. Every once in a while, they'll catch one napping, you don't let it too, getting too late today.

Yeah. And he's still rested and they catch him. But for the most part, one of those big males, a jump on his back. Yeah, it's a wrap. That's 400 pounds. Yeah. And he's like, hey, he can't support that. And here he comes. Yeah. But, uh, look,

the NFL, they've made it a better, abundantly clear in the appellate court against Brian Flores, they're going to appeal. I can see them appealing this all the way to the Supreme Court. He's still, he's still the defense coordinator in Minnesota. Yeah, he absolutely is.

Okay. After another joint practice fight between the Raven and the commanders, the Ravens issued this statement, recognizing the logistical challenges with our team's previous game scheduled on different days and the added strain on players heading into a short week, the Raven and commanders are mutually agreed to no longer hold joint practices next week. Instead, we'll concentrate on preparing for the upcoming preseason matchup. Uh-huh.

Ocho? Yeah. Damn. Yeah, I like it. I like it. I mean, it's cool. But at times, you get tired of going against yourself. At times, you get tired of going against yourself.

The funny thing about it is the joint practices, they're going to be scuffles. There have been scuffles in every joint practice, every season back to date when I was playing. I'm sure they were scuffles. Oh, you said you guys didn't have joint practices. But, hell, we did. We did. Oh, you did?

Oh, but hell, if it wasn't a joint practice, hell, you'd be scuffling against each other. Get it all out your system now. one thing we haven't seen in a very long time except a few instances is us as players actually fighting in a game. Now hell now, that costs you money. There are a few instances. They don't play.

I remember one time. I only count three. I can't remember the receiver's name. Chat, you can probably help me out. The receiver who got upset at C.J. Gardner Johnson. Oh, yeah, yeah. And plus did it in me the face? Yes, yes.

And when the play was over, not the receiver. And then I remember O'Dell and Josh Norman. Yes. Now that, that was, and the most prevalent and consistent of battles was Mike Evans and Marshawn Lattimore. I think Steve, Steve Smith got into it with a few people back and forth, but nothing that really came to blows like the ones I just mentioned. Right.

And I cannot forget it. We're with AJ Green and J. And J.L.A. Johnson. Yeah. And Cortland Finnegan. Cortland Finnegan. classic Ateeb Khalid

Ateeb, wait how you say it? Akeeb. Akeeb Talib and Michael Crabtree. Outside of that, I mean, that's it. It happens very, very, very, very, it doesn't happen off. But it does happen. It normally, but there's a culminate,

there's a buildup to it. Yeah. This is something that happens over years. Yes, yes. It ain't just one game. It's a history. It's a pattern. Right.

And it's like, okay, enough is enough. because Drey told us, he's like, man, he had been doing this stuff for some years. Years, yeah. And it just built up, and it's just the day, like, you know what? I'm going to put my foot down. Actually, I'm going to put my foot in his ass.

And so it was a buildup. But, you know, when you're in joint practice, you got close proximity. Because when you fly in, you got flying to BWI, Baltimore, Washington International Airport. Mm-hmm. It's 50, 60 miles. Right.

If that. So, you know, the close proximity, you know, yada, yada, yada. Everybody say, we the toughest, we the baddest, and we get it. Right. I just, for me, I didn't have that kind of time because I was exerting all my energy in practice. I ain't got time to be fighting.

Look, hey, how are we doing this? We're doing it. Snap the whistle or snap the after the whistle. I just need to know. So that way, I'm clear on how you play it so I can play just like that. And, hey, we're not going to do no shoving or what, how are we doing? Are we protecting each other? Am I going to throw your ass over the pile?

Yeah. Or what we do it? I just need to know. Because I can do it any kind of way. I'm going to make sure you now. The one thing, hey, karma's got a lot better. Karma used to take years. Sometimes karma instant.

Oh, yeah, most definitely. Like Insta card. You know, you're just like, dang, I don't know how I'm going to get this. I got to go to the grocery store. You can order it. Now, you can Instagram and stuff, I guess. Oh, yeah. And they'll bring you exactly what.

Now, sometimes they bring it to you. Yeah, most definitely. But, uh, so I guess, I guess the Ravens and, and the, uh, The commanders, they had a joint practice, they were having joint practice and they just been fighting her. Damn. Yeah.

I saw some footage on Twitter today where it was a big scuffle. I'm assuming they used something maybe from last year. Because I haven't seen any scuffles of recent. But I mean, listen, it's smarter than the coaches. You know, prepare for the game, prepare for... Because the last thing you want to do

is get somebody hurt, oh, Joe. Yeah, most definitely, most definitely. You get somebody hurt because then somebody get hurt, and if it was a key player, oh, ain't going to be no more practicing. Yeah, at all. So we fight every snap,

we fight it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like it. I like it. You know, look, I get it because a lot of times, because, you know,

we do a 9-on-7, the DBs and Y receivers doing one-on-one. Hey, man, hey, who winning? Y'all got them? Right. Oh, man, we're killing these fools down here. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Hey. Listen, that's what we got from the Titans, the Titans and Falcons. They're joint practice. they're going at it back and forth because one Tennessee player said okay they got us today

but we're going to get their ass tomorrow. Exactly. That's what mindset. At the end of the day, it's all about competing. It's all about competing. Those that have already made the team, you want to make sure you look good

and be able to put on a show in that joint practice and let them know I'm still him, whoever it is. And if you're not him, I'm trying to make a name for myself right here until I get to do it on Sundays at 1 o'clock.

If I'm not him, I'm trying to be him. But in the meantime, Ocho, you're talking about we're going to get the ass back tomorrow. Coach ain't trying to hear that. He's going to curse me out for the next two hours in meeting. Right, right, right, right. So I got to hear his mouth. First of all, I had to hear your mouth how y'all did us on the practice field.

And then I got to go to meetings, going to get it from Mike. I'm going to get it from the O.C. I'm going to get it from my position coach. No, bro, you're not going to do that. And at one point in time. Now, we might get as a team because I can't control everybody. I'm just one of 11. But when it comes to my one-on-one matchup,

right coach ain't gonna do another pat me on my back and say good job son i need that i promise you that i need that i need that listen they love your coach you're gonna be your coach you're gonna be needy gonna have puts in your butt not mine absolutely listen they call it a team game huh yes they call it they say it functions well it functions well when you play as a team but what you feel to realize is is when you break it down all it is 11 players 11 individual matchups 11 individual matchups and when And each one of you win that matchup, it works wonders. It works wonders. But the funny thing about it is sometimes there are weaknesses in that 11, week to week.

There's always a weakness somewhere. Yes. So coaches, that's what coaches come to play. I know what this player does well. I know what he doesn't do well. It's a chess match between coordinators on Sundays. How do I hire the weaknesses and put certain players in position to make plays? Right.

But it's great, even in joint practice is scripted because they want to look at certain, they want to look at certain formations against certain defenses. You want to see certain defenses against certain formations. So everybody's trying to do everybody in favor. Now, we don't go, okay, a 907, a good solid thud, pad on pad, square up. Just let me know, hey, you go across the middle, a guy's going to put pads on you. They're not going to take you to the ground. but be prepared for a collision.

Yeah, get yourself, you soon. Okay. I'm cool with that. Now, if they don't told us one thing and all of a sudden you want to be a hero, okay, don't worry about it. I'll get you back. Yeah, it changes everything.

You're damn right, it does, because you're not going to get me and then you go over to the sideline and slap high fives. Don't worry about it. Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long? This thing is ancient.

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powered by Intel Core Ultra processors, so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device. Hey, guys, it's AZ Fudd. You may know me as a gold medalist. You may know me as an NCAA national champion. You may even know me as the People's Princess. Every week on my new podcast, Fud Around and Find Out, I'll be talking to some special guests about pop culture, basketball,

and what it's like to be a professional athlete on and off the court. Listen to Fud Around and Find Out, a production of IHeart Women's Sports in partnership with you, animus media on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you, that's what the real question is. Stand without good

access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport.

Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We don't just love college football tie. We live it. This is an IHeart podcast.