Nightcap - Best of Nightcap - Best of WNBA special guests feat. Monica McNutt & Chiney Ogwumike

Episode Date: July 21, 2024

It was a big year for the WNBA with the introduction of Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, and it was a big year for Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson’s emerging women’s basketball fandom. Check out Nightcap’s special guest appearances from some of the big names from the WNBA world, including Monica McNutt joining fresh off of a viral First Take debate with Shannon and Stephen A. Smith, WNBA analyst Chiney Ogwumike, and Dallas Wings star Arike Ogunbowale.00:00 - Introduction03:37 - Monica McNutt44:02 - Chiney Ogwumike1:05:57 - Arike Ogunbowale(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Last minute tickets, lowest price, guaranteed. Monica, we had a very healthy, that's the term I like to use, a healthy discussion this morning. You said, Shannon, I knew I was in trouble because you normally call me when you call me Shannon, I'm like, oh, here we go. You said, Shannon, I knew I was in trouble because you normally call me, uh, when you call me, Shannon, I'm like, oh, here we go.

Shannon, Stephen A, this deserves a more nuanced conversation. You know how television works. You got the top of the hour. You got the bottom of the hour. You got to get in and out, and you got a lot of people. I wanted to get, because we reached out to you earlier today, asking could you come on? You said yes.

So I want to give you an opportunity. What do you want to say, Ocho. Before y'all go, being that y'all have a better knowledge of the game of basketball, whether it be NBA or WNBA, as someone on the outside looking in that was able to watch y'all this morning, I want to tell you that was peak elite sports journalism as far as conversation is concerned they're going to be so many different opinions whether wrong whether right monica i didn't know you could cook i didn't know you was a chef because honey you was cooking this morning you hear me you was cooking um you had your points but the passion yes passion and authenticity monica that you spoke with today well i'm talking about man bro i was on the edge of my seat. You had you made your point. And then, Monica, you and Stephen, they going back and forth. And I'm sitting on the edge of my seat like, man, what is going on? That was listen, that was peak elite. I'm talking about elite television. So anytime there's any type of NBA topics,

WNBA topics, if the execs at ESPN knew what they were doing, they need to make sure they had that same trio and all along with Molly, because that was great. That was fabulous. I'm just saying, I'm not saying it because you're on a goddamn show tonight,

because you see I'm cursing. That shit was fucking fabulous. That was FTV. But the thing is that ocho that when you do television and monica attested this you never know what you're gonna get because you have so many you have sometimes two three maybe even four people and it's an opinion-based show yeah monica had her opinion i had mine steven they had had his and so monica says a topic like this deserves a more nuanced conversation that we don't have to worry about getting into a break so if monica needs to talk 15 minutes straight we can allow monica to do that monica the topic came up uh basically

it's caitlin clark is the nba or some of the players in the WNBA have a personal vendetta? Are they envious? Are they jealous? Are they if their resentment? I think the term resentment showed his head up into the conversation. So I want to turn the floor over to you. What point do you want to reiterate? What point did you didn't get an opportunity to make that you would like to make now? The floor is yours. Well, so let me I gonna take y'all two things happen to me i actually went to the liberty game on friday and this episode sort of speaks to the growth of the game my fiance and i would just take the train home because it's easiest we're in new york and there are uh a couple of white boys one of them went to auburn

his brother went to university missouri um his girlfriend was with them another another young white man and they're probably their late 20s one of them might have been in their early 20s and it was a black woman that clearly just left the liberty game that sat across from them and they just spark up y'all this spontaneous conversation about women's basketball and yes it was about this particular play and it was a little bit about the sky angel and it was caitlin and it's about the liberty and i'm looking at my fiance like this is. Like we're just on a train and folks that you might think are watching the WNBA pop into this conversation. And they're both engaging. They started talking about Auburn and the Tuskegee and I was peak ear hustling for the record, but they was loud.

But I say that to say, Ochoa and Shannon, I get that we are at a special place when it comes to women's basketball and the growth of the game and all of the eyeballs. I think what I was frustrated by in our conversation earlier is that we can hold more than one truth, y'all. Like the idea of some players being jealous. Yes, that probably exists. since or since she has made her debut there's been a large and loud clamor or push yes that is caitlin versus the w and that is unfair to me yeah jealous sure i mean would you be jealous of somebody that got 28 million dollar a shoe deal or whatever the deal is before you step foot in the pros right yeah i just need us all to do a better job of holding room for multiple truth jordan as a rookie joe right lebron as a

rookie like wimby as a rookie when you look at guys that have gone on to be great i'm sure they would not say their rookie years were cakewalks now in the case of lebron and if we use wimby this year they have physically dominant and powerful statures. And so maybe that has allowed them to skirt some of her. But Caitlyn is a guard coming from college. She got to get her weight up. The W has to continue to allow her

to be one of the leaders of this platform as Angel Reese has also been, because I know that's going to be a hot topic tomorrow. And so my whole thing is just it doesn't have to be either or. It can be both. But the prevailing idea that it's the W versus Caitlyn and that these women don't understand the power of the eyeballs and the audience that she's helped grow the league to, that's just unfair.

And that's what bothers me. Go ahead, Ocho. Listen, again, from the outside looking in, I have come to enjoy watching WNBA now as a new fan. I had the opportunity, Monica, to see the dream play the wings. I mean, yeah, the wings, Dallas wings, right? Dallas wings in Atlanta, maybe two or three weeks ago. And I have never been in an atmosphere like that. From the game to the enthusiasm with the crowd the dj everything was jumping from first quarter the fourth quarter the halftime show was phenomenal as well so the engagement and the experience that i had at that wmba game when the dream played the wings that's

what i'm expecting now i have a chart with with the misses where we're starting on the east coast and we're working our way up to the West Coast. I'm starting with I'm going to another dream game. Then I'm going to make my way to Dallas. And from Dallas, I'm going to Chicago to see the sky. From the sky, then I'm going to L.A. to see the Sparks. And then we're going to Phoenix. And then we're going to finish off in Vegas.

Okay. Now I'm hoping, based on the experience I had in Atlanta, in that stadium, I'm hoping the rest of the atmosphere is like that too. Obviously, the game of basketball is good. I've come to learn, all the players now, I have a bunch of jerseys

that I bought for my road trip. I'm hoping, I'm not sure how, I don't know them personally. I'm hoping they'll sign my jersey so I can put up here in my man cave. And like, I'm locked in now. I'm't know them personally. I'm hoping they'll sign my jersey so I can put up here in my man cave. And like, I'm locked in now. I'm locked in.

And watching y'all this morning solidifies everything. Because obviously I'm a new fan. I'm new eyeballs to it. And I think, I think after this year, they will almost, I'm not saying they're going to be able to compete with the NBA, they will almost, from an exciting standpoint, what's going to happen next? Okay, so let me ask you this.

Let me ask you this, because this is where I'll turn to Shannon for me this morning. I just want to mush him through. I'll just give you a hypothetical, Ocho. Come on, come on now. Let me take you back to your playing days, right? Okay, okay, okay. Boom.

This new corner. He, he, bop, bop, bop. He all this. Big fat contract. Yeah. You about to square up with him, Ocho. Uh-huh. What are you going to do with squaring up against a cross from somebody who was supposed to be all this and all that for the future of the league?

Oh, he finna get his work, what? Say, honey, he finna get his work. You hear me? He finna get his work what say honey he finna get his work you hear me he's gonna get this work you ain't miss a beat when you said that outro so yeah all of a sudden some in the media have have allowed this idea of roll out the yellow brick roll roll off the red carpet because this is your cash cow why that idea has caught so much steam blows my mind. Because we are still talking about competition, which is a beautiful thing that y'all both have made millions off of.

But let me ask you a question, though, to Monica's point. Yes, sir. That hot shot corner, he's a top five pick. Let's just say for the sake of argument, he's standing there. You're going to roll up

in the back of his legs? Oh, I see. I see where you're going. No, no, no. Don't see what I'm saying. Just like you fired off with Monica, I need you to fire off. Would you roll up in the back of his legs? Oh, I see. I see where you're going. No, no, no. Don't see what I'm saying. Just like you fired off like Monica, I need you to fire off

when you roll up in the back of his legs. I'll be trying to use my technique. No, I'll be trying to use my technique. No, no, no. You know, I don't take no cheap shots. You know that.

Okay. So, I'm going to stay with Shannon's example because now you're back to Shannon because you're going to my nurse. Now, Ocho, you're not going to do that. And tell me what percent of the league you probably think would probably agree with you? As far as not doing that? Yeah.

No, nothing dirty. Probably about 98% because there's a 2% chance there's some that really don't give two you know what and they'll do it. Okay. So I hate math. In fact, my fiance laughs at me. He calls me a mathematician all the time. But let's just roll with me for a second. We got 11 games. We got one incident. I think that's a little less than 10% of the events so far in which this has happened to have a conversation. So I just want us to hear out that competing, because you have been deemed the next step, is a part of competition,

man or woman, right? We all agree that Kennedy Carter had a bad look. We all agree that was a bad look for her. And I'm not making an excuse for that. I think the thing is also, Monica, who did the look, given her track record,

and who the look happened to. Ocho, I used the argument this morning. Trent Green got hit in the pocket in his knee and they didn't train the rules. 11 years later, eight years, nine years later, Tom Brady got hit in the knee. What did they do to the rules about hitting the quarterback below the waist, Ocho? They changed the rule right away. So I think, Monica, to your point, had it not been, had it been someone else

that doesn't have the track record of Ms. Carter, and if it wasn't on the person who she did that to, I agree with you. I don't believe the outcry would have been what it was, but it was because of who it was.

And I'm going to actually add this. I think the fact that it wasn't called a flagrant on spot is probably what helped elevate this conversation. But that's the point. We're talking about bad officiating across the NBA and WNBA for however long. Do you know what I mean? So literally, Shannon, we get the call this morning

that we're going to lead the show with this. And I'm like, this is the most non-story story I think we've ever led a show with. Because to me, it's just not that big of a deal. Hey, it made for great teams's not that's not what twitter that's not what we're training that is and you know how Monica you've been in tv long enough you know what what leads yeah people like man y'all y'all do is talk about the cowboys the cowboys people want to talk about the cowboys right people want to talk about Caitlin Clark all. People want to talk about Kaitlyn Clark. All of a sudden, a larger percent want to talk about the WNBA, which is good. What is bad is that they're not talking about the WNBA in a positive

when you're looking at it in this situation. And I get what you're saying. You're like, yeah, it's a nuanced conversation, and two things can be true. People want to compete. This was an isolated incident there's not a whole lot of incidents where people are clotheslining Clayton Clark tripping or shoving or doing petty things of that nature so let's look at this this is what it was this happened but let me ask you a question tell me you and I we talked about it like damn we're teammates y'all saw the girl get clocked in the

back like that Ocho you know in football you do something the one I got especially one of our main guys yeah we got this all right we got to get you back Monica but we got to make it look like it's a part of football okay right and I think making it look like a part of the game is a huge thing but I'm gonna tell y'all a story in college we played Louisville and we actually got the rule changed in women's college basketball because louisville used to take a lap around the court around the whole court we were warming up in your home stadium they did it everywhere they did it at george at georgetown in mcdonough arena we were on our side warming up i'm not gonna name any of my teammates because I still love them dearly somebody somebody tripped up somebody from Louisville and a brawl ensued

right we made it we made it to sports center in a little dun-dun-dun now Monica is not a fighter do you know what I did in that moment you scrapped no I grabbed the basketball and said y'all stop we gotta get me

what i'm saying to you what i'm saying to you is if your dna is not i'm a goon i'm enforcing i'm in the scrap that's not a switch that you can just turn over if i had if i was on the baseline and we were i was actually in the tussle then i had to fight a fight right but i was shooting a jump shot i looked down they were scrapping and i was like oh no we can't do this right this idea that the personalities on the fever squad all of a sudden turn into enforcer is unfair to who they are they go pick their teammate off the ground they grab her they encourage her to calm down and take a deep breath we're not in their practices i don't think that this is oh they must not love her like i think we might be reading a little bit too deeply and y'all they've won two games out of the 11 they

played they got some real things to worry about in terms of trying to win versus trying to play yeah but let me ask you a question could it be a situation if they were had a better winning record it's like man y'all talking about this team y'all talking about this person and she's shooting 40 they only won two games y'all talking about it like she's stewie y'all talking about them like they the the connecticut sun or the aces or somebody come on now do you as as as women do you guys because i know look y'all keep talking about this and they ain't done anything do y'all do you as as as women do you guys because i know look y'all keep talking about this and they ain't done anything do y'all do you hear that and get fed up like hold on bro there are other people out there playing the game too now come on now i know that this is not journalism one-on-one

ocho but i'm gonna flip it right back to you huh yeah when you were competing at a high level if somebody was appointed next up and their team was not if the needle wasn't moving in the w column and you felt like you were better than and had earned more accolades and attention then what how was you gonna respond yeah i'm trying me anybody anybody that had a name i'm trying to embarrass them because i'm trying to elevate my name yeah that's that's the way that's the way i that's the way i that's the way i went about it monica is that i wasn't gonna do it now all i needed to know and i told ocho no joke in a test of this all i needed to know are we playing snap the whistle or snap to after the whistle i just know i so i just need to get in the right frame of mind to how we gonna do it because if

we being nasty i just need to know at the start of the game, okay, we going to be some nasty mofos for four quarters. I'm down. Yeah. I mean, listen, even though the fever of only one, two games, we have to understand the Cowboys, they haven't won in, what, 30-some years. They still move the needle.

The Lakers, they haven't won, well, the 2020 championship. I'm not sure if we count, but there's an asterisk behind that. But again, the Lakers, they move the won, well, the 2020 championship. I'm not sure if we count, but there's an asterisk behind that. But again, the Lakers, they moved the needle. The Yankees, they haven't won the World Series, I'm not sure in how long, but they moved the needle. Kaitlyn Clark, she moved the needle. Angel Reese, she moved the needle. I mean, that's just the makeup of it. And that's the way it will always be. And it's going to be like that for a long time. I wish people would get comfortable with that. And that's the way it will always be. And it's going to be like that for a long time. I wish people would get comfortable with that.

And that's the way it's going to be. And you created a different demographic, a different set of eyes, and they're going to enjoy the game. And now I'm excited to watch the WNBA because I want to see what's going to happen next because I have no idea. I have no clue. So, Ocho, I love that. And this is where I continue to say more than one thing can be true. They have absolutely moved the needle. And I think

Kaitlyn Clark and Andrews both are going to be all-stars and superstars in this league. They are both rookies, right? And so I, quite frankly, the idea that she would see less than true competition, again, obviously we are excluding non-basketball and dirty plays it's not only disrespectful to the rest of the league but it's disrespectful to her she we talked to her two years ago in Dallas at the NCAA championship game and you guys are probably all seeing the features at this point grew up playing with her brothers was the ultimate competitor and so as a competitor you don't want to buy a square up across from you and take it lightly you're trying to go prove yourself and so for, the fact that we've lost that at the root of this thing,

we are talking about competition and women competing at a high level. That is the part that bothers me the most. And then there's 28 years of this league being established. And in the last five, the needle has moved. The charter thing has been in motion. You got to shout out Mark Davis, the Vegas owner, Joe and Clara Cy, the Liberty owners, like people that have really helped to put the pressure on these women receiving professional level treatment. Has Kalen expedited the process? Yes. But there's also been a groundwork that has been laid. And so I just encourage all the new folks like you, Ocho, come on in, come on in and watch. Come one, come all. Grab your notebook, take some notes

before you start bumping them gums. That's all I ask. So let me ask, because when I look at Kaitlyn Clark and people look at her and they're like, well, what about all that trash talking she was doing in college? What about all the stuff that she was shoving people down in college? They saw that and so now her talking trash in college might intimidate some folks you come to the w these are grown women these women got kids these women 25 they 28 they 30 years of age they don't care but i think like and like i said monica i'm you oh you got name. If I tear you up on the court, they're going to be talking about me.

You know what? I think there's a learning curve as a rookie. My rookie year, I was talking trash in college. My rookie year in the NFL, I didn't say nothing. I didn't say nothing. I didn't even talk to the media until I got acclimated to the game. I understood the game and the game started to slow down, slow down for me. So when year two came and I started talking, once I figured it out, it was a wrap.

I'm sure at some point Angel Reese already talking sister. She, she, she letting it flat. As soon as Caitlin Clark gets acclimated to the game and it starts to slow down for her and she picks it up, I guarantee you she's going to be back to her talking ways, I'm sure, based on what we saw at Iowa. Mm-hmm.

I think, Ojo, you're spot on, right? But I think part of what has made this such a hot topic is that when a GOAT like Cheryl Supes, who was a multi-time gold medalist, a four-time WNBA champ, an umpteenth time WNBA all-star, the first woman to have a signature shoe for Nike, when she said there was a curve, it was she was hating. When Diana Taurasi said there's a curve at the women's final four, she was hating.

And I think for the new fans, I get it. Y'all rolling with y'all, girl. You protected, whatever, whatever. But that wasn't hate. That was people that have been here and watched this league. Those were truths. And that is okay. That's part of all of our journeys.

You're going to hit a curve at some point. Yeah. Especially for a guard. See, people look at, I say, bro, y'all expecting her to be Candice Parker when she comes out as rookie when rookie of the year and mvp candace is six four caitlin clark might be what six foot monica so you're asking a guard to do something that a dominant big in college hey candace parker was legit she could rebound got your double digit rebounds got what she was a 1910 she was a

defensive player of the year. She was tremendous. And I think everybody you look at, Caitlyn, she led the nation in scoring at about 32 points a game, led the nation in assists. So automatically, people automatically think, well, she's going to come in and do an NBA. Them women will not let that happen.

You play harder against someone. It's just nature because you know they can embarrass you you're not gonna embarrass me you're not gonna have me on sports center especially now and i know uh esp is really covering the wmba oh you i'm nothing to be your highlight package it ain't gonna happen monica i'm sorry it's not i do when this conversation come back up man i'm not around i just want you to keep that same energy because that's all it is. And to me, that is beautiful. That is the point of competition and it should be celebrated. Yeah. Angel Reese had some comments today. Yeah. Take a look, take a listen to the sound,

what Angel Reese had to say today. It all started from the national championship game. And I've been dealing with this for two years now and understanding like, yeah, negative things have probably been said about me, but honestly, I'll take that because look where women's basketball is people are talking about women's basketball but you never would think that we'd be talking about women's basketball people are pulling up to games we got celebrities coming to games sold out arenas like just because of one single game and just looking at that like I'll take that role I'll take the bad guy role and I'll continue to take that on and be that for my teammates and if I want to be that and I know I'll take the bad guy role and I'll continue to take that on and be that for my teammates. And if I want to be that, and I know I'll go down in history, I'll look back in 20 years

and be like, yeah, the reason why we watch that women's basketball is not just because of one person. It's because of me too. And I want you to realize that a lot of us have done so much for this game. And Kennedy has been here before, obviously, but there are so many great players in this league that have deserved this for a really, really long time. And luckily it's coming now.

Yeah. Talk your track. What you talk about, man? You watching the game because of me. And she ain't lying because I'm one of them. What you talk about. Thoughts on her comments, Monica? I love it. I love it. And this is where we talk about you're not going to turn into somebody different overnight. Angel Reese has never shied away from the mic. She's willing to wear that villain label however unfair it may be but she gets it in the macro and what i love about angel even when she announced she was going pro in vogue she speaks about the macro and she does that deliberately

that is not just oh i'm gonna just throw in the women that have come before me right and i think that is important and what makes, and what is endearing about watching her. But she's absolutely right. The girl, I'm sorry, I don't know her name, but the girl streamed a Sky's preseason game on her phone, y'all, and had umpteen tens of thousands of viewers

that were watching. I think it was like two million. Wasn't it like over a million? It got over a million. You know what I mean? So there is a demand. She absolutely has been a part of creating that demand.

She's a huge part of this rookie class as well. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices

that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible

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Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek.

I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your

guide on good company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen.

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that, and hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. well we can't we can't let pat mcafee i guess he watched us this morning he was he had some coffee he probably had an energy drink uh Do we have his sound? We can't play his sound. Woo, Monica. I know you've heard it right now. I think Pat got a little bit too amped.

He forgot, like, man, this live. Normally we have a conversation like this, Monica. You and I, you and your girls off air. But we got a microphone and we got a camera with a red dot going so what did you what what did you think when you heard pmac start going so i didn't actually watch it but i read the transcript and all articles that came down honestly y'all my first thought was okay here we go with this not being about race. I'm a person who is white, right? And again, this is where I say, and I'm speaking honestly, clearly, concisely.

This is where I say multiple things can be true, right? I wonder what this would look like if Kaylin Clarkark was black she's proud of who she is that's fantastic right but this is where all the layers of this conversation come in right the wmba is a predominantly black women's league there it's also a largely a queer league right and the gender sexuality race it's hard to parse this out of that conversation. At least for me as a woman, because I can't walk away from any part of who I am, right? And so his point about the other white chicks in the league that have been buckets, sure.

Stewie's the MVP. KP has won multiple championships with the Las Vegas Aces. DT, obviously we had a conversation about her as a goat, right? But to act as if there is no space to sit back and just wonder again. All I'm asking for folks that have just joined is to open your mind. Ultimately, you may disagree and that's fine, but you should be able to have be able to hold space to evaluate all the pieces that seem to be at play. Now, if you decide to pick up three instead of six, that's on you, but you got to be able to sit back and acknowledge all the pieces at play just out of respect for humanity

at large, I would say. Monica, you said something very interesting and you would know better than I, but I was thinking this, but I never said it, but since you brought it up, let's go here. How much do you think predominantly Black queer helps or hurt the WNBA? That's a loaded question, Shannon. I think the W in the last few years has done a great job of leaning into who they are. They are not hiding who these women are, and these women are not hiding who they are. One thing about this rookie class has been their willingness to share their lives, but I had a chance to catch a great documentary this summer courtesy of the WNBA PA, and i'm blanking on the name of the documentary and i apologize but it highlighted john quayle jones um brianna stewart and uh chanel neka agumake right and as

veterans in this league jj has been an mvp neka agumake has won um a title and been an mvp it's been a multi-time MVP and won championships. As veterans, they talked very honestly about opening up their lives, right? Because that was a big choice for them. And one of the commentators, Lindsay Gibbs, in that piece talked about being able to enjoy this league and celebrate these women even more

when you get to know them, right? And I think that star power of this rookie class growing up with social media, Caitlin has 2 million, Angel has 3 million, right? They've already been used to sharing their lives. Right. And so I think the W has leaned in on who they are. But as new audiences are getting to know these women, hopefully they find a way to strike a chord with them beyond just being basketball players.

And so candidly, I'm not 100 percent sure what happens in marketing meetings when you begin to look at who you want to partner up with with the WNBA. Because like we started this conversation, gender, race and sexuality are parts of conversations that you just cannot escape. The documentary you're talking about is called Shattered Glass. There is an NBA story. talking about is called shattered glass there's an mba story thank you i'm glad you had this conversation because at the end of the day you like people like well go market go market but at certain time you know certain certain demographics you're trying to market too because like when we go out okay we have to pitch okay who are you trying to who are you trying to reach we we club shea shea nightcap we might not be able to reach who an Shay Shay, Nightcap, we might not be

able to reach who an advertiser or a sponsor try to reach. So it doesn't make sense for them to give us money if the people that they're trying to reach are not watching Nightcap, not watching Club Shay Shay. And so what you're saying, Monica, is like, okay, we got

to appeal to the people that you're trying to reach. But to say that gay and queer people don't buy health and don't buy auto insurance is just not true. To say they don't go grocery shopping or buy cars is just not true. So they are people. They might have chosen an alternative life that's outside of the norm, whatever norm is. There is a new definition of norm now. But I believe that you can reach people because everybody that watches television, they're a consumer. You buy something, whether it's food, whether it's auto insurance, whether it's whatever the clothing, whatever the case may be. You'll purchase something.

When it comes to marketing and branding and WNBA and those that are queer are part of that community in general, that community always sticks together and support each other. So the marketing on that end should be easy anyway. It's common sense, especially when it comes to the higher ups and the execs that are sitting in positions of power. That's a no brainer as far as when it comes to marketing and branding and doing it that way. Now, if they want some ideas, you know, from the true number one marketing and branding himself, I can guide them in which way to go and know how to do it. That's what I did. You might need to get some boardroom tables, Ocho. Monica, let me ask you this, because, you know, a lot of times black, we used to have like,

who was in that room? Why are you talking, trying to, you know, market the blacks and there's no blacks in the commercial? Would it help if there were queer gay in the rooms that could say, hey, guys, they they have purchasing power. I don't know.'m in california man they shut down we hope gay pride is a big thing that so somebody drinking beers buying cocktails and buying clothes mark i'm just saying somebody doing that yeah and and listen the marketing has improved right but if we wanted to get into the weeds and gosh oh man i should have pulled up all my research because there was a wonderful article done. I want to say about two seasons ago that looked at what demographic still in terms of representing the WNBA still got the lion's share of marketing opportunities.

And it was largely straight white women. Now, in two years, I do believe that there have been improvements made in that area. Right. And like I said, the WBA has leaned into who they are. These women are leaning into who they are. There's a number of queer athletes out of W that I can think of that have had commercials and are currently in commercials that are still airing. And it's beautiful to see. And so I do think that things are changing. But just like in society, y'all, as painful as it is, right, when we start having conversations about this societal totem pole. People, especially women that sit at identities, shout out to Dr. Alfie, my girl, that have intersectional identities often don't have privilege. And so they're minimalized a little bit or not a little bit. They become minimalized.

And so that again, that's a whole nother loaded conversation. And I'm not trying to tell anybody that they can't be a fan of this player or that player, but as you join this WNBA fanfare, welcome, it's room for everybody. There have been 28 years of groundwork and there have been numbers of opportunities of research, right? Like, and then when you look at the demographics of this league, like just keep your mind open to what is the reality of someone else's experience that may not look like you. That's the part that's frustrating

to me in this conversation, y'all. Like one, to hear ex-athletes say, oh, just let her do whatever. And two, folks that aren't taking the time to just do a little bit of digging about what the WNBA has been, how powerful these women have used their voices,

what they stand for, because it's beautiful. It is. And thank you for opening up and sharing that with us. I mean, you know, you being around the game, you playing the game, you being a woman yourself, you're better to speak to this in Ocho than I, because you're in that situation. There's no better person to speak to about a woman than a woman and so sometimes you know as men we try to sit back and try to i don't know what it's like to have a baby never had one i don't want them kind of problem so so i i like women when women talk about women issues yeah i can have an opinion but i'm just speaking at it from a man's point of view and sometimes we only see things through the prism in which we are you know if i'm I'm looking from a mountaintop, I don't know what it's like in the Valley because I'm on top of the mountain looking out.

You being a woman playing basketball, playing in the WNBA, who better to speak to issues like this than a person like yourself? But how often do, how often when things like this, do the WNBA, the PA, do they have you speak to the women that's coming into it? How many times do you go out and speak to women's group? Being who you are, being the platform that you do have, are you given those opportunities to speak up for women? So I was going to let you rock with this, but I got to check you one thing on my resume. I decided that I was done after college and wasn't going to go to the W. I did not play in the W, but I also

had to get with the Chad Ocho Cinco agency to get me some more speaking engagements. Whatever you need. Listen, listen, I have a marketing firm, a branding firm, so anything you need, just holler at me. I can get the ball rolling. I got you. All jokes aside,

I have had the opportunity to speak, um, not just to, uh, women's teams, but like last year, I had a chance to talk to rap with the Los Angeles Rams. Right. And just offering a different perspective as a member of the media. I do know that our friends and colleagues, the China Robertson and Nneka Ogunke led a great media preparation session for the rookies coming in this season. And so the W and the PA

are about giving their players resources as are the NBA right and so the league is just continuing to grow and when you talk about this male counterpart it has a 50-year head start right Monica I think the thing is a lot of times and people's like well I think the thing what really got it trending at the end is that what Steveve you said steven a you had this platform and you're doing it now but you probably should have done this a lot sooner me i'm gonna address that but i have club shea shea and people like why do you have more women i've reached out to women that that play or played in the wmba and i get no returns. I've had one lady,

she's not a professional basketball player. Two days before, she's like, I'm gonna have to reschedule. And now my team can't get ahold of her. So I've tried to give women, cause I, hey, I got a nice size platform. So I wanna give you an opportunity to share, tell whatever story that you want to tell.

You want to talk about your upbringing. You want to talk about your life as a professional athlete. You as an entertainer or a celeb have at it. But it's not as easy as you think, Monica, because a lot of times women say no. I'm about to stop you right now. I believe you. But I'm also say this because I had to think twice before I said yes, because I have seen some nightcap clips. Okay. And you have to ask yourself, is this a safe space?

Right. And so I believe when you say you want to have that conversation. Right. But I think because of the opportunities to brand for women are a little bit. Hold on. Let me get my words right. The opportunities for women to build their brands are so heavily scrutinized, right? That you probably think more dutifully before you say yes

to an opportunity, depending on how it fits and if you feel that the space is safe. So I don't know why people are saying yes or no to you, but honestly, like if we had this thing this morning, like I would not have thought of myself as a nightcap guest just based on the clips that I've why people are saying yes or no to you but honestly like if we had this thing this morning like i i would not have thought of myself as a nightcap guest just based on the clips that i've seen and i met i mean i've met ultra in person i've obviously met you in person i think y'all are great guys but like right i'm not gonna tell y'all what goes down in my bedroom like and so you do just wonder if spaces are safe and so as you continue to grow your platform, I would encourage you

maybe to offer the topics in advance. And you may have done this already, right? Yeah. I always ask any guests, is there anything that you're uncomfortable with? I ask a question. You can also say,

well, Shanna, you know, that question that you asked me earlier that I talked about, can you not air that? Boom, we take it out. Yeah. Because I want you to be most of the time when people come,

they're speaking their truth. Now, if I ask you a question and you tell me what went down in your bedroom, how am I being messy? You could have said, Sheldon, now you know I ain't going to answer that. Now, I am savvy, but I don't know if y'all guess I might feel a little pressure to keep up with the Joneses on.

I don't think I can speak to other people now. I know y'all can get a little wild on here. But see, that's the thing. They come for the sports. They stay for the story. So, you know, it's kind of like Monica, again, let's just say for the sake of argument, I'll let you into the arena for free, but I charge

you to get out. You see what I'm saying? That's what I mean. Now, listen, all jokes aside, I do want to address the end of that clip. I genuinely was surprised by the reaction. And I did not intend

to make it personal. But when I look at Stephen A and my relationship with Stephen A, he the head honcho at ESPN as far as I'm concerned. And I have been in this women's basketball space for so long

and have been privy to many basketball space for so long and have been privy to many a conversation pushing and pitching and asking for space. So from where I sit, if SA says, let's talk about it, it's going to be discussed, right? He and I have had a conversation tonight. Okay, cool. There are things that played that maybe I did not consider when I made that statement. But what I do stand by is that the way that the WNBA is being covered in the last, this season just started in May, this particular season is at a different fervor and tenor than it was three years ago. Now, whatever factors go into that, be that as it may, but three years ago, we were not having these conversations about the

WNBA as we are now. And that is just a fact. Yeah, well, we weren't having this conversation three months ago. Fair enough. But you said, Monica, it's never too late to do the right thing. Absolutely. And I think that some people will be like, oh, nobody was talking about it. Like you, I heard you at the end of that show. You lucky Molly

had to go to break. You talking about something. Monica, you proving his point because nobody was talking about Kayla Clark after he had three years. I heard this is where this is where we have to really argue and and tussle with this idea of cart before the horse or or horse before the cart right and i know we don't tv work shannon just like you said och Just like you said, Ocho, you can talk about the Cowboys, you can talk about the Lakers. Like, there are these things that hit.

And so I understand the idea that the WNBA may not have been drawing the same numbers that it is now three years ago. But again, two things can be true. That doesn't necessarily mean that those women, prior to the arrival

of this rookie class, were still not worthy of coverage. Go follow her right now. Sinead. C-H-I-N-E-Y. That's her social media. Is that Twitter and IG? That's both of them, right?

That's everything. Very, very, very simple. Cheney, we had, we were trending again. It seems like every time we have you, a monocle,

y'all start trending. I don't know what it is. So we have you a monocle y'all start trading i don't know what it is so we were having a very nuanced conversation and you you shed some light as being a number one overall draft pick uh coming up in the system the under 18 to under 20 you was in the rotation playing overseas going winning gold medals for america your sister number one overall pick an mvp uh a champion never being selected so you provided a lot of insight that a lot of people are not able to provide so stephen a and i took the approach that look we thank caitlyn clark the 12 best players she goes she stays we believe the the americans the women will win the gold medal you like yeah i understand stephen a shannon i understand the marketing aspect we understand

the eyeballs that she would join but you had a a very different approach of why you don't believe that she was selected and you didn't have a i don't think you had a problem with her not being selected so i want to ocho and i want to open the floor up to you and let you go into great detail because you know when you're on television, you got to get to the top of the hour. You got to get to the break. You got four or five people. And even though we have three people, we're going to open the floor up to you, Chanae. Tell us what's going on in this situation. Sure.

I think the hardest thing is that oftentimes when we're in a debate format, people are more concerned with entertainment than the truth. And the truth is that I have a lot of lived experience into why she probably was not selected. And I said it before. It's largely based off of experience. I don't know if people realize that earlier this year, Team USA almost lost to Belgium. It took a buzzer beater by Brianna Stewart to win. The rest of the world is coming. I don't know if you followed the U.S. women's national team. You saw what happened with the men. I know we didn't send our best squad over there, but over the last summer, you saw the international competition. If you look at the NBA right now,

who was dominating the league in some regards? The last few years, the game has changed. And I really do give a lot of credit as it pertains to basketball to the foresight of the NBA. The NBA has wanted to make this a global game. I'm Nigerian. The only other professional basketball league outside of the NBA and the WNBA is the Basketball Africa League who just had competition and championships.

They're really putting their work into growing the global game. But at the end of the day, that helps everyone rise. And I think people haven't realized the level of competition is so fierce that you don't want to take a chance of, at this iteration, potentially maybe having a player that has no familiarity with the roster, no experience at that high level. I think the youngest player on the roster is probably Sabrina Ionescu, who's a first-time Olympian, but we've seen what she's done in the league. The previous Olympians, they've all had nine, at least nine players

have had Olympic experience. So if you look at what they constructed, they know that the world is coming. And then I think at the end of the day, like we're people that are all fans, right? Like the reason why we have the jobs we have is because we love sports. We love it at the highest level. We appreciate the moment that the women's game is at. We want that moment to carry over, but it can't come at the expense of what the Olympic mission is. And it's too metal. And I think that's the one thing people are sort of missing in all of this. The goals of Team USA by criteria is to assemble the best team, a team where your players are set up for success. And I think based off of the popularity of Kaitlyn Clark, people think that

that shouldn't matter, but that is the central mission. And I don't know if this is like this certain circumstance is setting Kaitlyn up for success. Her not playing with the team, her not having experience out there as much as the other women. It just, there's a lot of factors that go into these types of decisions that are the reality and not like our dream for what we want the women's game to be. The women's game has always been the most competitive league in the world. And then you whittle that down and now this is the most competitive league in the world. And then you whittle that down. And now this is the most competitive team in the world. That's what it's consistently been. That's the reason why they've won seven Olympic gold medals straight. They don't want to deviate from that just because of what people deem is popular or what people deem is, oh, this is a move for business.

The business that they want to handle is winning on the floor. That's always been Team USA's priority. And I think because of the expectation that surrounds Kaitlyn Clark people think it should shift. Team USA said no, it's not going to because that's not what we've always done. I agree with what she said. I think Kaitlyn Clark will have her time knowing the player

that she has been and based on what I've been able to see when she was at Iowa, based on what I've seen so far in her short stint in WNBA, she likes the fact that she wasn't picked. It gives her something to strive for. Like she said, they created a monster. This is something you want to strive for, and being able to represent your country at some point, if it's not right now, later on down the road. Obviously, again, the resume of the ladies that are part of Team USA are those that have chemistry together, they play well together,

and they have an extensive resume of work, a body of work that they put in, which is why they've all been assembled like the Avengers to represent our country. Can I ask you, do you believe that the 12 best women are on this team? I do.

Now, there are some areas that I am concerned about, and let's get personal for a second, okay, guys, because, you know, it's hilarious. Everyone woke up so big mad that Caitlin Clark did not make the team because everyone's looking forward to her having the spotlight in the biggest moments. This is how I felt personally when I didn't make a team a couple of years back. This is how my sister felt as the only MVP that never made an Olympic roster. It was heartbreaking. It was devastating.

And y'all don't have blood in the game. I got blood in the game. Now, I understand that Caitlyn has the eyeballs that no player who has picked up a ball has ever had before. So I'm not saying that my circumstance or my sister's circumstance should have been anything different.

But I just think it was funny because I'm like, y'all really care for the right reasons because you want to see the game grow. But I do think there's a difference between women and men. In the WNBA and women's basketball, our approach to the game is to honor the game, to respect the game, to play the game the right way. For so many years, people have been critical. Our league has been joked about

for a long time. So many people come in with preconceived notions about what women's basketball is. And yes, Caitlyn is a part of changing that narrative, but that doesn't mean we change our entire sport. That doesn't mean that we change the integrity to which we assemble rosters to go win Olympic gold. That doesn't mean we change how we compete on the floor. And I know you were talking to me about competing like, today that hard foul wasn't competition. You know what Caitlin said? Caitlin said the next day, this happens in the heat of competition. People lose their cool, but we keep it pushing. You know what I'm saying? So like, as women, we have, let me tell you something, Ocho, we have not played for the Patriots. We are playing for the

legacy. We are playing for our reputation. We are playing because we are upholding the standard to which women's basketball has dominated, even though so many people have been critical of us. And so when we keep that same energy, when it comes to picking the Olympic roster, people are like, oh, you don't know what's good for you. Y'all didn't care beforehand, but we are consistent in how we approach the game. I'm talking to you like, I don't know how many times I have to say it for people to understand it. It's hard because today I sit on air and I'm like, I've been in those rooms when I'm about to get cut. You know what I'm saying? I've been in those rooms watching people make their dreams come true.

It is a process that is sanctified. It is a process that is honorable. It is a process that Caitlyn has accepted herself. You know what I'm saying? I don't think she has much choice. She doesn't have a choice, but you're right. But she did have a choice to react to so many different things but look at how she reacted to that one yeah i think the thing if she was always going to take the high road they they hard follow oh that's in the heat of the competition oh there are a lot of great you know the thing is that she has an image to uphold and a lot of times saying

the right things when you when you could easily said the wrong thing i think that's a part of it like you you could have been like hold on i'm i've come up through the ranks playing 16 17 under 18 i was under 20 and hold on so y'all talk about experience i've got international experience now it's a problem your sister i'm an mvp i'm a champion oh now what's the excuse now nah you know what's crazy? Because the conversation was about marketing and this is how you need to know about marketing. I'm like, bro, we've been suffering from other people trying to market our league

and not accepting the authentic nature of the competitors, the athletes that we are right now. You think we don't know about marketing? We've been shaking down the roof to try to get marketed the way that we want to. We want people to see the trash talk. We want people to see the competitive fire. We want people to challenge each other. We want people to see us as the badass female athletes that we are. But now it's like, oh, you guys don't know. We've

been fighting to be ourselves for so long. And finally, society has the eyes to be like, oh, this is women's basketball. Oh, this is hoops. The problem is, is that some people have come in just through the lens of one player, not understanding how the entire ecosystem works. You know what I'm saying? Yes, I do. That's the frustrating part, but we accept it because we understand that growth is necessary, even including all of these growing. The funny thing, when I think about it, obviously me being a new fan to the WNBA and just learning about it, obviously going to a dream game maybe a month

ago and seeing a few players play and now becoming a little bit more knowledgeable about the game in itself. I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying the trash. How are the vibes in Atlanta? Tell me. How are the vibes in Atlanta? I've never been to the club.

I haven't been to the club since like 1999. But if I had to give you an example or an analogy on what it's like, that's what the Dream Game was like. But on top of that, the Dallas Wings and Dream Game was exciting on the court. Forget what was going on off the court, because off the court made what was going on on the court that much even better. So I was really excited. And I'm hoping, Unc, when we go on our little tour, every season we go to, there's a WNBA team. So I'm hoping we can attend a game so he can get that same experience. Wait, this is Nightcap, right?

Yes. So a lot of people see me on air and they understand Shanae's facts and figures. People don't really know me. I don't share myself too much, but I feel like this is the right format for me to share myself. Ocho, you said you haven't been to the club. I'll tell you a story about the club in Atlanta. So you thought, you guys know me. I'm like a wholesome lady.

Yes. Okay, I'm a wholesome lady. I don't do too much. Y'all don't see me outside too much. But, you know, I did secure something. So you know how I be. So you went, I got it. You went, I got it.

Okay, okay, okay. Okay, so this is one of the things. I went to atlanta and my teammates they'd be moving around they'd be outside and one of our games at that time was like 9 p.m so we didn't finish until maybe 11 and i was looking on my phone i was like y'all game's over we got the dub i was like man i'm hungry i need something to eat but everything's closed one of my teammates from like oh you know i'm from out here i know where we can go it's always open i was like okay cool i just trusted her i just trusted her it wasn't was it cheetah is it called cheetah

is that magic city was it it wasn't magic city you got the cheetah right down the street on spring street thank you that's where she said look it's always open i was eating my post-game meal wait and then looked up and saw cheeks like that that was my post-game meal, winked and then looked up and saw cheeks. Like, that was... That was my post-game meal. So, yeah, when you say you don't go to the club, I don't go to the club either, but I still end up there because... Right.

It be like that sometimes. That experience is not... I've been trying to explain it to people, but words... Words don't work. Words don't work. It's like trying to explain soccer to people. You'll never understand until you actually understand and you're able to

experience it yourself. Those were the best wins I had, by the way. That's what I try to tell people. People think I be lying when I say, because they be having five-star chefs. They be having chefs that worked at fine restaurants and casinos and things of

that nature. No, they really be putting it down in that, Jene. I like it. I learned it. I learned it. I learned it post-game. That was my post-game meal. But here's what I've tried to tell him. Everybody vibe ain't like Atlanta. Atlanta is a different vibe.

You go to the Hawks game. You go to the dream game. You go to the soccer game. You go to the stadium, Mercedes-Benz. It's a different vibe, Ocho. So everybody don't vibe like the eight. So you expect it like every arena that you go to the stadium, Mercedes-Benz, it's a different vibe, Ocho. So everybody don't vibe like the 8th. So you expected like every arena that you go to, it's going to be like a club setting.

Nah, they got barber's chairs. They got everything going on in the stadium. That is true. So, you said feeding the ecosystem. I remember like when they came out with the with the uh the team

in 2004 they put mellow they put d-way they put lebron i'm not so sure at that time that we can make a case that all three of those guys were one of the best 12 but they understood that lebron and his popularity probably needed to be on that team as well as some of the other guys. And so growing the game, like you said, once the original Dream Team happened in 92, the world started like, oh, OK. And so that grew it. I can't recall but one foreign-born female player, Lauren Jackson, and I'm sure you know who that is, that we can consistently say that she was a top five, top 10 player in the WNBA. Has the world really caught up? Do they have, maybe they don't send them over here to the WNBA

and they just play on their club team, but has the world really caught up to us that quickly? Oh, absolutely. I think so. I mean, if you look, this is the first generation of players that have the benefit of learning from YouTube. When we grew up watching sports, how did we learn from the backyard, going from our coaches? I had to go to AAU to listen to a coach that was just the parent of a daughter that was there. Now people can watch the games globally. People can watch the skills and go practice it instantly. There's more infrastructure to support sports. And then on top of it, we have people in the women's game that are not showing up for the WNBA taking seasons off just to practice with their national team because they understand

that being on your national team is where you can really build your own marketing too. Like this is a place where you can be a star, whereas in the W, maybe you are a role player. So you have teams. There's a woman named Emma Mieseman who plays for Belgium, I believe, who is one of the coldest people in the WBA. Y'all, she's like Luca in a way. She doesn't play faster than she needs to. She's going to get her shot off and she's just efficient. Now, she's not like a guard. She's more of a forward. But my point is, is that she's cold. She's been playing with her team for like two years straight. That's why it took a buzzer beater for USA earlier this year to beat them. Because these women are competing year round

similar to us, but they also have the chemistry. They've been playing together since they were babies. Now that's one of the things that we have the benefit of having so much talent that sometimes talent overwhelms. But nowadays, with the different international rules, with the increased skill set, just with the overall chemistry that these teams have been playing with forever, it's a little bit more challenging than we ever expected. That's why no one really says that USA winning or even whether it's the men winning, which we saw last summer, is just a walk in the park and assumption. You have to go out there and earn it. And I'll lastly say this.

I think that women's sports, you know that saying you have to work twice as hard to get half as far, right? For people to really get the viewership, to get the respect, it feels like we always have to be perfect. We always have to be on. That's how women operate, not just in sports. As a broadcaster, I always have to lead with the facts and the figures. I have to keep my feelings to the side because the moment I show my feelings, people are like, oh, what does she know? Why does she feel like she can speak on X, Y, and Z? That's just the nature that we're in. I'll say this, and Ocho, people see you before they hear you. They judge you before they know you.

So you have to go out there and be perfect. Why should we play loose and fast at times with the rules of who should be on the squad, which could compromise the integrity of the game, when we know that we're being criticized regardless? We just have to be consistent in our pursuit of perfection. That, to me, is what it's like to be a woman or to be a female athlete. That is the challenge that we're always up against. My sister always said, why are we catering to a group that

only came just for this certain moment and not came to see the beauty of the entire landscape, the beauty of the entire ecosystem? We will accept, we will welcome, but we will not conform to something that has not made us better individually. What made us the best is that we go up against the best each and every night. You know what I'm saying? Right. So there's things that make the way women approach sports because we are constantly dealing with criticism different than men. And I think it's okay.

I think it's perfectly okay. What do you say to the people that says, okay, yeah, they might've not been here before, but they're here now. It's kind of like, you know, we have this, okay, you're 30, you're 30, 31 years of age. And, well, you got married at 30, 31. And so if somebody said like, dang, Sinead, they probably would say, what's taking you so long? It doesn't matter when it happened. It's that the fact that it did happen. And we understand that Caitlin Clark came with a different,

with a different lens than anybody in the history of the game because of the NIL situation, because of the marketing brand that was behind her. And we know why we don't have to get into the, the, the, the, the nuances we know why, because it was a perfect storm. But how about we take this perfect storm and why it's spinning we let it sweep up everybody that's in its path which is the WNBA well I think the difference here is because she has gotten everything that she has needed in some regards with this is the first time that she per se has been denied something that people are surprised by. She got number one.

She is the face of a new franchise. She's honestly, unfortunately considered by many that are new to this, the face of the WNBA and one of the most popular faces now in American sports, right? I'll say this. We talk about like no one, Asia Wilson has a chokehold on the league, but the way that we talk about caitlyn i wish we could switch the dynamics but what it is what it is right now she has gotten a lot and no one's saying that she won't get it they're just saying that right now while all the eyeballs are there

yes you feel like there's a great expectation but i don't think you want to like there's a reason why she chose going to the wmba instead of taking that big three content contract. Yeah. It's because she wanted to honor and respect the integrity of the sport and the competition in which she plays. You know what I'm saying? Not everything is like, what is delayed is not denied. She will be an Olympian. If she continues on this trajectory, has she been set up for success? Is this team being set up for success? Or is being popular more important? This is the one group that does not really move based off of popularity. And I think that's what people don't really understand. Clearly, clearly. Well, Chanae, we're going to thank you for just stopping by. We know you only

had a brief moment, but thank you for joining Ocho and I on Nightcap. Ladies and gentlemen, Jhene Fumike, my colleague at ESPN First Take. Thank you for joining us. Good night, and see you soon. Always. I'll come back. I feel like I can be a young auntie around here. You welcome back anytime.

We can kick it next time. We can kick it again. Thank you, Jhene. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say,

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to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up,

so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next.

In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content. The term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide and hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ocho, we got a special guest joining us. She was the fifth pick in the 2019 WNBA draft out of Notre Dame. She ranked second in the WNBA scoring behind Asia Wilson at 26.4. We're excited to have tonight. I've been practicing this, and I hope I get it right. Arike Ogumbawale. There you go. That's how you do it.

What's up? How y'all doing? Rike, what they doing, Rike? Hold up. I see you at the Atlanta game. Huh? Hey, listen. I saw you at the Atlanta game.

Hey, man, listen. Listen. Nothing but love. Nothing but praise for your game, obviously. It was my first time going. It was my first time going. So then I think we had nightcap that night, right? Or maybe the following night and all I could think about in being that I watched the NBA a

little bit the first thing that came to my mind for a comparison to you based on what I saw with my own two wives because can't nobody tell me shit yeah I say I say listen she look like Kyrie Urban that's it that's all that's all I can. Hey, so you know what I'm talking about. Listen. I mean, I feel you. So you know I'm going with it, man. Listen, it was a joy. It was a joy watching you play. I'm coming to see y'all play again in Dallas. We have our tour coming up

in Dallas. And y'all have a game I think the day before in August or the day after. But either way, I'm coming to watch you again because I need the autograph. I need a picture. I'm trying not to fanboy right now, so I'm trying to play it cool. Come on now. I don't even care.

I don't even care. No, I appreciate that. Yes, let's go. So let me ask you a question. What do your friends call you? Do they call you Reek or they call you Ayo? Reek or Arike. Don't nobody call me Ayo.

But it's cool. Don't nobody call me Ayo. Okay. All right, Reek. Look, there have been a lot of discussion. Everybody was talking about Kaitlyn Clark being snubbed or not being selected for the U.S. women's team to go play the Olympics in Paris.

I think one of the biggest snubs were yourself, leading the league in scoring. Everybody knows what you bring to the table. Can pat the rock. As Kyrie said, you can score. When the list came out and your name wasn't on it what was the first thoughts that go through your mind well the thing is I pretty much had an idea that I wouldn't be on it so there's trials and stuff that go on throughout the years and previous and you do it and you see the vibes and I mean me being me being

me I just felt the vibes like honestly when it comes to that stuff it really doesn't have much to do with your game it's really about who they feel like fits with the team which okay I mean that's on the men's side so you know you could have said Kyrie could have made it and stuff like that like they the committee say they look for people who you know I don't know honestly but I could already tell like that wasn't the type of vibe they're going so I actually took my name out the pool months ago. So when the list came out, I know everybody in Hoopla, like, Arriga should have been in. I knew I wouldn't be on it.

Now, that's not saying I didn't think maybe last year I would be on the team and I was good enough to make the team. But when the list came out, I knew I would not be on that one at the time because I took my name out the pool. And with the pool, it's a big commitment. If I know that they're not picking me, I'm not going to keep getting texted. Give you up all your time. That's what I'm saying. Keep having people pull up, keep going to these trials when I know the vibe. So me being me, I'm like, I'm not about to give y'all my time if I know the vibe. So I

knew, I knew for sure when the list came out, it wasn't, but like I said previously, I did think I was good enough, but Hey, you know, it's subjective who they think should be on the team. Everybody's great in the WNBA. So who they choose is who they choose. And I can't really control that one. You know what? And I have a question. I'm sure the people that make or the people in positions of power that make these decisions

on who they're going to assemble on the U.S. basketball team, I'm sure they are basketball heads. But when it comes to this decision making and decision process, do you think it's politics that comes into play into this? I mean, it's politics.

One of the key words I heard you say is the vibe and understanding the vibe. And it really shouldn't be about a vibe or anything. It's about assembling the best team to represent our country. So I don't want to get you in any trouble, but can you really talk about the politics side of it when it comes to the decision-making process for them? Yeah. I mean, I can't really speak, speak to USA basketball in general, but just when I think of women's basketball and just however many years I've been playing college and pro politics, it's always surrounded it now, whether that's, whether that's USA basketball, whether that's all-star teams, whether that's first team and stuff like that, there's politics, even with the men's.

There's politics in everything. I'm going to just leave it at that. What are your thoughts about the discourse surrounding the WNBA? We hear a lot of talk because it's the league. There's a lot of comparison between Kaitlyn Clark and Angel Reese being the bird and magic

coming into the WNBA. And we know what they did to the NBA because all of a sudden they took the finals game off the tape delay. There was there was this new and it was a perfect storm because you got magic in the Lakers. You got bird at Boston, the most heated rivals, the most fiercest rivals, and they go there. So speak speak to what's what's going on with the WNBA and it seems like these rooks are getting a lot got a lot of credit for what's what's happening in the dub yeah I mean they they're bringing a lot of attention I think they should be getting credit to the point where they brought a lot of attention to the WNBA and the narrative

that we don't you know appreciate that is crazy because I love it. I've been hooping. So more people watching the better. Like I've been doing what I'm doing now. People kind of finally catching up. And, you know, you got to give credit to Angie. You got to give credit to Caitlyn because they brought a lot of fans from college. I watched the Final Four and I was at Dallas because I live in Dallas. So I went the year before that.

And just how many people was there was crazy. Like it was insane. And I played in the Final Four. I won a national championship. And I thought a lot of people were there so this one i'm like they just bringing fans fans fans so we appreciate everything that they're bringing now it's not saying they're the best women's i think that's where no they're not even close yeah that's what i'm saying like y'all now seeing stewie y'all seeing asia y'all seeing just players like that

was like they've been dominating for six seven eight years And these new players will do that at a certain point. But right now I think just the WNBA, we like, we appreciate everything that y'all bring it, but it's not going to be easy. Like people act like people are supposed to sit down and, you know, put out a red carpet. Like it's, it's going to be hard. It probably will be harder because of who you are, but that's just what comes with it. Like, that's like saying, Brian, like people shouldn't check him because he's a great, like, no,

they're going to try even harder. And that's just what happens. That's just, happens that's just you know competition are are the fans getting popular confused with best because two things can be true somebody can be popular and not really good and somebody can be really good and not popular so are the fans are the fans getting those two things confused yeah i feel bad for the girls because they not the one saying it it's the fans like i'm not understanding where the delusion is coming from like kaylin and angel have not said nothing like they the best players to come in the league they just say that they just want to come they know it's the wmba they know how hard it is so they probably like can y'all be quiet a little bit because y'all making it harder for me on the court like

y'all putting the target on my back so i don't nobody blames them like it's just the fans and what they bring it but i think they learning now that this league is hard like they see it every night people that they've never even heard of killing or guarding and doing stuff like that so they i think they're gonna catch up more like because now it's new it's something to talk about they want a storyline but at the end of the day like the league is going to keep going and the thing is going to keep being the same so they're gonna waste their breath every day or they're just gonna enjoy basketball oh yeah i heard you shutting down the critics like physicality because a lot of people like well physicality in the dub is not good for basketball you're like uh yeah hey listen it's a male or female it don't matter the sport

it's a contact sport in order to play it the way, there has to be some type of physicality involved. Yeah. And people are being selective with what they're calling physical. Like, if we're going to talk about the rookie, so we're going to talk about a hip check, that's not basketball. But if we talk about somebody holding, being stripped in a ball, and they might fall to the ground, that's basketball. There's a difference.

Nobody's saying the hip check is being physical, because that's obviously a flagrant foul, and that's wrong. But it happens, because I watched the whole play so i seen you know kaylin talk to her after that so it's like if if you won't talk to somebody you gotta be ready for something no matter what it is like not saying the person's response is right but what they respond is what they respond is how they feel that you coming at them so that's different but like i said i'm not a type of player to do that to a player like if you're gonna talk to me i'm gonna show it with my game but like people got to get confused dirty and physical because it's going to be physical

and there will be some dirty, but that don't mean we're all dirty. It's just some plays might be dirty, some plays not. Just like men. Draymond might choke somebody out. Draymond might... Pat Bell. Don't forget Pat Bell. Pat Bell might... He might get into something too. So it just depends, really. It's like

individual to the player, for real. It's not the whole league. I like it. I like it. I like it. Go ahead. You got something, Mocho? Man, listen, I'm just excited for the WNBA. I'm excited for the path it's going. I'm excited that it's dominating the headlines the way it hasn't in the past.

Because if it did in the past, then I would actually know about it. And as I continue to learn the game, as the game continues to grow, it's really dope to see. And a lot of people, they try to tell me, oh man, why do you go to these games? It's really boring. It's not the same as watching the NBA. They don't know.

They don't know. Listen, the funny thing, now that I've been able to experience it and I've been to a game or two, now I can sit here and argue with people on Twitter all goddamn day. See? Y'all fucking lied to me. You told me it was nothing like so-and-so. Now that I've done my homework and had a chance to experience what it's like in person, now I can go to bat

and then the goddamn product on the court, it evens up with everything else the pundits and the journalists have been talking about. There's a reason why y'all making the noise y'all making now. Right. We got some hoopers. I mean, you can see it.

You see the highlights. You see everything. Like, we got some hoopers. Every night, it's something, honestly. And I mean, I play against it. Obviously, I'm a part of it. But we got some hoopers in the league, for sure. I think you guys, Arik, is that you probably have to be a little better with the basketball

for the simple fact you can't jump over somebody from the free throw line. So you got to find a way to put the ball in the basket without being seven foot tall, without having a 42 inch vertical. So your game, your skill set, the way you shoot the basketball, the way you get from point A to point B, it has to be pinpoint because you got obviously the strength and the athleticism that a man possess, women just don't have that. And in the WNBA, honestly, we hold defense. Like, the NBA hold defense probably the last three minutes, last two minutes of each quarter, last three minutes of the fourth.

Like, other than that, they scoring 40, 50, 60, 70, because they just switching everything. I'm like, if we was switching everything in W, I'd probably average 40. But we trapping, you get trapped at half 40. You got to do a lot. You got to do a lot. NBA, I just be watching them like, y'all got it so sweet. Although they do got to play a lot

of minutes, though, so I probably wouldn't be holding defense season, but still. You know what? Ocho and I wanted to say congratulations. We heard that you just got engaged congratulations on the engagement let me ask you this were you nervous i was and i had a game that day too like they were setting up i had 35 though i went crazy i went crazy okay okay okay let's go we lost them so but i mean i did, though. But, I mean, I did good.

I got a bucket. How do you have 35 when y'all lose? I know, right? Yeah, we in a tough position right now. We missing two all-stars. That's not an excuse, but we going through some growing pains. I'll just say that. But we'll be all right.

But, yeah, it was dope. It was amazing. I definitely was nervous. But once it happened, like, it was everything I ever wanted. So, it was definitely dope. All right, that's dope. Listen, congratulations on on engagement I am also a wedding planner uh amongst other things that I also do I am also performing I performed at two weddings two weddings last year so if we need

somebody to perform I can also DJ I got oh you DJ too okay I got I got everything wrapped all I'm gonna run the track then run to the dance floor. Bingo. Pretty soon, Ricky will tell you he'll minister to you. He'll do your vows for you. Why was I just getting ready to tell you I'm a junior ordained minister too? Junior is crazy. Yeah, junior. Junior is crazy. Check this out, Rick.

I heard you have a sneaker head that your shoe game is crazy. Yeah. I got a lot of shoes and thankfully I'm a Nike athlete. So you can like, once you get that, you really can get anything you really want. Like, but I got a lot of shoes for sure. Give me, give me your top five shoes that you have in your collection. Dang. I mean, I got the UNC off whites.

Okay. Yeah. Top five. I don't know. You got any – do you have any of the Yeezys? Remember when Kanye was with Nike, do you have any of the Yeezys? I got the runners. I don't have any of, like, the red boots.

I know I got the black ones, like, some tan ones, but I can't wear them. Like, they just on ice because I'm Nike. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. You got the 750 boots. Yeah.

But I don't wear them. Honestly, but the thing is I be in slides. If it's something tough, I wear it, but most of the time I be in slides or Nike running shoes. Hey, I also heard you're one of the top five best dressed. I would say that.

Nah, nah, nah. We're not going to do that. I agree. I agree. I would say that. Coming to the game? I would say that. Hey, nah, nah, nah. We nothing to do that. Yeah, yeah. You pull up in the game. I agree. I agree. You be putting that shit on. You be putting that shit on. I appreciate that.

No, I tried. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I tried. So if you top five and you say you not two, three, or four, four, or five, so who are your other four? My other four in the league right now, I'll give Tasha Cloud. Okay. Yeah. Tasha Cloud, I'll give Tasha Cloud. Okay. Yeah. Tasha Cloud.

I'll give Skylar. I like her style. Okay. Okay. Kalia Copper, she got a smooth style. Tasha Cloud, Kalia Copper, Skylar, Arike, and then who would it be? I'll give Diamond the shoes. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's what's up. Yeah. So, Tyler, Arike, and then who would it fit? I'll get Diamond and Chips. Okay.

Okay. Okay. That's what's up. Yeah. So, do you like sneakers with all your outfits? Nah. I mean, I used to be, like, super sneakered up, like Nike, Nike, but now I just do, like, some loafers or some, like, shoes that ain't got really no label, but they just, most of my shoes been covered nowadays.

You know, I'm on the flare pants right now, so you might not even see the shoes. Hey, you talking about bell bottoms, you got the elephant bottoms. No, yeah, no, thanks. So let me ask you a question. How long does it take you to put together an outfit? Do you know so far your next game,

do you have your outfit already picked out or is it like last minute like yeah usually the night before like i already picked out what i'm about to wear for the game tomorrow so i'm not stressed because you know the game days it'd be a lot going on i don't got time to be looking and it take a long time to pick out like unless i you know have somebody help me with an outfit if i'm picking my own like it take me a long time so i gotta do it the night before for sure so can we tell the difference between an outfit a reek picked out as opposed to someone helping no can we tell the difference no because i got style so whether it's a stylist or whether it's myself it's all it's all in one i say when i use the stylist it's collaboration because i'm not just wearing what you give me like if i think a

shoe go better with that i'm gonna wear that or a pant go better with this stylist, it's collaboration. Because I'm not just wearing what you give me. Like, if I think a shoe go better with that, I'm going to wear that. Or a pant go better with this top. Like, it's usually, like, five pieces. We talk about it. But if it's full of fits and I, like, really, really like it, I'm going to wear the whole fit. But we usually talk about it. I'm never going to wear something like them NBA players. They got $2,000 on.

They look a hot mess from top to bottom. That's never going to be me. That's never going to be me. So, let me ask you a question. So what are you trying to accomplish when you go to the game? Obviously, you want to be stylish. And you know, because now everybody, the entry into the game is damn important

and what happens in the game. It just depends. It really depends on the time I had the night before. If I'm really about to tap in, it depends on city, too. Like, I like New York Arena. Like, I like Phoenix, so I might want to get more dressed up. Like, or if I'm in L.A. or something. So it depends on the vibe of the game, too.

But if I just felt like getting dressed, if I'm at home, I'm going to do that. So it's never really like a rhyme or rhythm. It's just whatever, to be honest. Do you always get dressed up? Is it ever like when you go out somewhere that you might be seen um or four togs might grab you that you're not always to the nine nah no i'm no i'll be in sweats like majority of the time like the most time i'm dressed up is the tunnel like okay that's what's not like if i got somewhere to go yes but I also don't go a lot of places. Like I'll be at home. I'm a homebody. I like to be at the house.

Right. Right. So what, so what can we expect? You mentioned that you guys going through a rough patch. You're going to get some of your key players back. Are you doing your thing? What can we expect from the, the wings moving forward and reach? Fun basketball. I mean, exciting basketball. Like I'm, I'm a flashy player type. So I like to entertain, you know, I like to'm i'm a flashy player type so i like to entertain you know i like to get a bucket i like to i like to keep the fans engaged but i also like to win and compete and play with my team so definitely hopefully a lot more wins but anytime

you go to a game you're gonna get something exciting so definitely fans need to look forward to that who we like competing against reek who we like when you like you're gonna schedule like okay yeah i know everybody gonna be watching that game. Whether it's the Aces and Kelsey Plum and Chelsea Gray and Asia Wilson or it's the Liberty, it's the Netsco, it's John Quayle Jones, it's Stewie. Excuse me. Whether you go – now, normally it's Seattle because they got them guards. They got Skyler.

Yeah, that's what we play tomorrow actually. Yeah. Okay. Oh, oh, oh, oh. So that's a shameless plug. Something got to give. Something got to give. No, me and Jewel, we be having – last time we played each other last year,

we had like both games like 30 and 30. One time we had 41 and 40. Like we be going crazy. And we both went to Notre Dame. So it be competitive, but it's all fun, even Skyler. Like I love playing against great guards. Like because, one, you cold, I'm cold. We about to see who the cold is tonight. Like we about to see what's going on. And I love when against great guards. Like, because one, you cold, I'm cold. We about to see who the coldest tonight.

Like, we about to see what's going on. And I love when we guard each other, too. So, it's really like we're going to check each other. We're going to score on each other. So, I'll probably guard Jewel tomorrow. She'll probably guard me. So, it'll be fun, you know, playing against her. So, I love playing against her.

And other players, like, who get up, like, yeah, I'm about to lock you up. Like, I love that. Like, I love when people come at me competitive because I know what I have. I'm never, you know, scared to back down from anybody anybody so we're just about to see who's gonna be the best tonight like so you so you so are you a so are you a trash talker you be in your bag like that's like yeah that's that's one that's a bucket there baby yeah but i don't talk to people like if somebody talks oh you don't okay i don't really talk to people like i'll be more worried about the rest of anything i'm like that's a foul like i'm at the refs. I'm not really yelling at the players.

But I don't really trash talk. Like, if I hit a good bucket, I might say something at the person. You know what? You were going dancing with the stars. What was that experience like? It was crazy. I was more nervous for that than anything. Like, you think it's not bad until you get to that little stage.

And you got to do something you're not used to in front of all these people. Like just like it was. And then the practice, it's like we had to practice like three, four hours a day. I'm like, I gained a lot of respect for dancers after dancers. I'm like, y'all really like, that's a lot. It's a lot, but it was fun. I met a lot of cool people, but it was a lot. Yeah.

Dancing with the Stars was awesome. Obviously I did, I did season 10 Dance with the Stars with Sheryl Burke. And I always say it was a lot. Yeah, Dancing with the Stars was awesome. Obviously, I did season 10, Dancing with the Stars with Sheryl Burke. And I always say it was a great experience. People always ask me about it. I say it's very humbling. I heard being a professional dancer and them critiquing and judging you as a professional, not someone that's coming in learning. We can perform.

So, I mean, it was very enjoyable. The funny thing about it is I like it about the show. The whole point of the show to me, it would be taking people with no background experience in dancing and watching them get better week to week. But my season, I had to go against Nicole Scherzinger, who was the lead singer for the Pussycat Dolls. And what she does for a living is entertain and perform in front of people. So I'm like, well, why do y'all have me going against someone that already dances for a living is entertain and perform in front of people. So I'm like, well, why do y'all have me going against someone that already dances for a

living when it comes to their respective craft? So it made no sense, but I know I did fairly well that season, so I really wasn't tripping. Well, at least you did good. That's all that matters. Everyone, please go follow Arike on our social medias that's Arike underscore Agumbo Wale on IG Arike underscore O capital O on Twitter

Arike thank you for joining us good luck the rest of the season I got to see both of y'all at a game I told you I'm going to be there if they're the game when we're in town on the tour we'll swing through alright I'm going to hold y'all to it alright appreciate y'all to it.

All right, wine. All right, appreciate y'all. Good to see you. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for coming on with us tonight.

Yeah. The volume. The made for this mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain

in front of them. So during mental health awareness month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain, this is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi.

We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.