Nightcap - Deebo & Joe - Indiana beats Miami, Titans hire Saleh, former Steelers goes off on GM Omar Khan

Episode Date: January 20, 2026

Join NFL Legends James "Deebo" Harrison and Joe Haden as they react to Fernando Mendoza and Indiana defeating Carson Beck and Miami in the College Football National Championship, the Miami Dolphins hiring Jeff Hafley, the Tennessee Titans hiring Robert Saleh, and much more! Download the PrizePicks app today and use code DEEBOJOE to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/DEEBOJOE Timeline:00:00 - Indiana beats Miami11:50 - Dolphins hire Jeff Halfley22:18 - Titans hire Robert Saleh30:50 - Does Harbaugh regret not waiting for Bills job?36:36 - Pat Pat Freiermuth Disappointed in role48:15 - Eric Ebron calls out Steelers GM (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Club #NightcapSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Welcome back to Debo and Joe. I'm your host, James Debo Harrison. I'm here with my co-host, Joe Hayden. Please make sure you like and subscribe and download wherever you get your podcast. Joe, how you're doing today, Joe? I'm doing great, brother, Debo.

The national championship went exactly as I wanted it to go. The hurricanes lost. Okay. Did not win, so I'm good. Indiana, it was a good game. I was happy to see that. University of Miami came out to play, but wasn't enough. And for me, go Indiana.

Go coach Kirk. Hey, hey, for sure. I'm with you. I'm with you on that. The reason I'm with you on that is because Chicago over there, my boy, L, he lost in Chicago. Okay. He's from Indiana. He's an Indiana.

He a Hoosier, so he had something to root for it. So I was actually looking at it, little bit, but not really. You know, I turned it on, I clicked it on. And when I clicked it on, dude from Miami struck off on them. On the first play I saw, I said, ooh, I got to turn the channel. I said, I ain't good luck right now. I said, I ain't good luck right now.

See, Maddie. I had to come back to it later, baby. I had to come back to it later. He opened up stride. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He took off on them boys, dude. That boy Mandozo over there, though.

They say, what, he capped off the perfect season? Bro. National title, first ever ranking for the Hoosiers. Come on. First, first, who's a quarterback to win a Heisman international championship? Yes. And likely, likely, first overall, Pete. The thing I say about this is I didn't watch Debo.

I ain't going to lie, I didn't ever watch too much of Mendoza throughout the year. And I didn't know. I didn't know if they were fake or phony. But I started watching during when they played Ohio State, you know what I'm saying? They were able to beat them. Then I watched when they walked Alabama 38 to 3. And that's when I started really to become a believer. He won the Heisman.

He's a great kid. That's kind of what I see, too. He's one of those, like, he's a Godfair man. Some people will call him corny. I call him that's exactly what GMs and coaches are looking for, if you're looking for a quarterback to lead your franchise. He's going to give all the right answers. He's a try hard, really gives a good effort.

He's not small. He's like 6'4, got a big frame. He made some good plays out there. I mean, the one play, that he did, bro, when they went for it on fourth down, they act like they were going for a field goal, they went for it, and they called a quarterback draw,

and my man went running through everybody, fighting for his life, taking on tacklers, and then do with his own, everything, everything. He showed me a little bit of everything. He showed me the love of the game. He showed me his dedication. You know, he might be a little corny. I like

that. I like that. I think he he had to do, went out there during one and Natty, looked sweet, And congratulations to my mask. Congratulations to Mendoza. And the coach, bro, Coach Kirk. Yeah, I don't heard. I've been hearing about him, man.

He's from Pittsburgh. That's what I heard. And everywhere that he goes, he was like this, like, Google me. So I went Googling him. Hey, that's where I had to Google him. You got to Google him. And he's doing wherever he goes. That's what a great coach do.

He's a leader. He's a leader. He's able to, and this is the other thing. They don't have Indiana. they don't have like all those five-star recruits. They don't have those four-star. But this is what I realized, Ebo, they're old. Their team is 23-year average age.

So this is what my man is doing. If you got a good team where there's two-star, three-star recruits come into college, they start playing college football, they get to get the speed of the game. So by the time it's their third year, he's going to the portal getting dudes that are two-star, three stars, but they played a couple of years, got some good tape. By this time, I'm 21 grown man played four years of college football. Now I'm about as good as a, those five stars, now they're basically five stars because they've had their experience. You know what I'm saying? So I think he's doing a really good job of seeing talent that isn't just, I'm not going to go

pay these young dudes, millions of dollars, they come in and I don't know if they're already able to play, just losing money. It's pick your poison. I'm going to go pick, a two-year, three-year starter that's played in college football, maybe wasn't the best coming out of high school, but now he's developed. He knows how to play ball, and I'm going to coach him up to be a great player. So I think he's doing a great job in that part,

being able to manage the money, being able to get older players, not just all the five-stars showing it's a way that it can be done. Because he beat Ohio State with 40-some, five, four, and five stars. He beat Alabama, Oregon, you know what I'm saying? And then beat Miami with 40-some, five, four, and five stars. So it can be done. Shout out to him because he's a great coach. The dudes out there loved them.

And I, in my time, I was never, I wasn't taking Indiana serious until they started, you know what I'm saying? Until they started beating like Ohio State. Then they worked Alabama. And then, you know what I'm saying, Oregon. I ain't going to lie. When I heard the Alabama thing, I wasn't tripping because Alabama ain't where Alabama used to be. You know what I'm saying? It was a weapon.

I get it. I get it. But when they beat those state, I was like, ooh. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. There's something there.

Yeah. Yeah. He's doing a great job, like you said, of actually bringing them in and knowing the type of player that he has and the potential in that player and what he can get out of him, getting them in there and developing them to that point and pushing them to it, you know what I'm saying? Yep. Yeah, that's unbelievable. That's, dude, that's great coaching right there.

It was great coaching because at the same time, like, I saw the quarterback. He was out there taking what the defense give him. You know what I'm saying? When they were playing off, he was throwing a lot of those hitches, getting the ball out to his playmaker's hands, and they were just being able to methodically walk the ball down the field. Miami, Hurricanes, their defense was still nice. Like, he was getting pressure.

People were coming. He was getting hit. Did you see, oh, my second, first drive hit my man right underneath the chin. And I was like, oh, my God, they didn't call no flat. But he, you know what he did? He did the RPL and do you want to act like you got the ball? You're going to get thumb. You need to go ahead and throw your hands up, Mendoza.

You know what I'm saying? Don't act like you got it. But he did get, bing, my man, lit was bleeding. I was like, bruh, okay, they're out here fuming. Yeah, yeah, that's wild, bro, because I think Indiana's roster only had, like, what, maybe eight or so four or five star players. Like you said, Miami, they were sitting over there with 45, four or five stars fresh out of high school. Yes, but that's what I'm saying.

That's that grown man strength. You playing versus grown men that's been in there. and they're four or five years starters. These dudes are average 22 years old. And Miami's probably, you got 18 years old. My man, their best player, number 10, he's supposed to still be in high school. You know what I'm saying?

He's out there hooping, though. Yeah. Yeah, I see what you're saying. But, you know, bird in the hand, bird in the bus. You got to go get what you can get when you can get it. I understand. For the longevity of it, like, to be like, yo, I'm about to be that dude, dude.

You know what I would do? That they allow now? What? I go two years, Juco. Then come back and get my other four because they don't even count against it. Oh, man. Oh, you coming in as, okay. I'm coming in freshman.

I'm coming in freshman, 20-year-old grown man. I could get up out of there in three. Easy, yeah. It's wild right now, bro. The things that you could do, and then on top of that, you still can get a rear shirt on it. But if you're nice, if you're nice, though, you're going to. to go because they're going to pay you to do. If you're nice, if you're not, if you're a second two-year, if you're a two-star,

three-star, I can see them trying to go to Jukor route because nobody really paying you. Right. Get you a year-in-out of there ready. No, for sure. Especially if you ain't had time to, like, get in there, develop, play whatever it may be, what's going on. Yeah, get you a year and their jukego. Mm-hmm.

No. Get the snaps. Get that grown man strength. No question. Yeah, but your boy back, what was he thinking on that last throw, though? It was an underthone ball. Undathone ball. It's thick.

I mean, my man. Hey, I was thinking the same thing. But then as I'm looking at it, I'm like, safety kind of slowed down. I was trying to get over the top. But then again, I'm like, if he just launched it, the receiver never got to slow down. If you just go back pylon, you got to go back pylon. So where it's going to be out of bounds or outside shoulder. Because the safety's in there, the D.Bs beat.

You go back pylon. Only chance. Then that's where he's going to have to slow down. He don't got to run. You got to make sure that safety got a good angle. But if you throw the inside and underthone, that's going to be booked. That's going to be booked by either the corner or the safety. So, yeah, he got to, he got to let that thing fly.

But Indiana, they made plays when they had to, brother. And Mendoza, fourth and eight, back shoulder to get down there. Like, Indiana was not, they didn't give up the game. I liked it because it was a good game both ways, back and forth. You know what I'm saying? both teams battling, both teams making stops. But, yeah, man, those did what he had to do to go win that thing.

And he ended up back, dude, he back like 23, 24 or something? Yeah, he was on Georgia. He was for Georgia. He got two national championships, but he was the backup quarterback. Oh, okay. Yeah, so he didn't go start for the game.

So now this is his first time being. Yeah, and I believe he said he graduated like two years ago, didn't he? Yeah, my man is out there during chilling, straight, that's league. He's going to practice and going to practice. and going home. Going home, bro. He's going to, like, he got, he got the real, he got, he got the real, like,

NFL experience already. That's what I'm trying to tell me, you, bro. What's that two years, bro? Like, come on. Two years. You got to do better than that. You had a whole two years of, like, a rookie rookie. Bro.

Come on, man. Wake up in the morning, your teammates got class. You're playing call a duty or studying some film maybe, getting some breakfast. On film all day. Vibing. Because you don't have, your job is football. Your job is to know what you're doing.

You're going up to the facility. And he's still getting paid, right? Ain't you still getting paid? For sure. For sure. They gave that man, about a good five mil, Debo.

Huh? Yeah, they got that man good. Elms. Beck got good five. Don't get me talking crazy, but I know it's at least three million. Man,

get that money, man. I ain't even tripping. Man, what? I ain't even tripping. I ain't even tripping. For sure. I wish. I wish.

I wish I could have had that. Because, man, as soon as they get a hold of this and start cutting this down and changing these rules, man, it's going to be cast. Let's go wish they was born just a little bit early. Just like, sometimes you'd be looking at contracts. You'd be like, damn, I wish I was born just a little bit late. No, for sure.

Everybody. Man. Inflation. Inflation. Yes, sir, man. Miami, man, though. Dolphins. Yes.

They hired D.C. Jeff, what is it, Halfway? Jeff Halfley. Jeff Halfley. I know that we love this. I love Jeff Halfley. Oh, yeah. You played under him? Go ahead, hydrate up. Yes, sir.

I definitely played under him. 2014, he was my DB coach in Cleveland. Went to the Pro Bowl. Halfley. Great coach. Great coach. I mean, this is my thing, too. Now, Debo, I don't know how when we're saying with,

now coaches the responsibilities of bringing in other staff, you know what I'm saying, hiring other position groups. I don't know about that part. The one thing I tell you I know about Coach Halfley is he knows some defense and he made sure that I knew my job, the team knew what we was going on, and I like him as a coach. He knows scheme, he knows ball, and he wasn't telling me no just coach talk. He was giving me real things.

He was giving me real. So he actually developed you. He actually developed my. my game, 1,000 percent. Okay. And I would, for sure, he came out to the Pro Bowl with me, amazing coach. So I'm very, very happy for him. And I can't wait to see how he does with bringing coaches around him.

You know what I'm saying? Seeing how, being about how he accusates or gives out, you know what I'm saying. Acclamates. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I don't, I ain't go a lot. I ain't know much about him other than, you know, who was the de-coordinator for Green Bay,

24, 25, and then the head coach of Boston College, 20 to 23. I ain't a lot. I wasn't too impressed with that, though. You know, you're talking about it. What was it, 22 and 26? You said, I guess sometime in between there, he must have flipped back forth between college and pro somewhere between there.

But, I mean, defense did well, I guess, in Green Bay for them. I mean, 24, I think they were. was like a fourth or something, but a 15th this year. I mean, I know they lost some people. You just don't know. I don't know. I just, bro, I just don't know. Like, it's another, you know, you look at Miami and they don't have eight head coaches straight.

Had no coaching experience as a head coach. And then they haven't won a playoff game in the last, what, 20, 25 years, something like that. you got what is it you got macdaniels flores gates i say soprano was in there somewhere matter fact now think about it uh they fired two coaches and todd bowles and um what's his name over there in uh in Detroit Dan Campbell they were interim coaches for those seasons that they fired those those those two coaches and then in between that I don't know who it was actually had Nick Saban right? Yep.

Okay. But that program different than the, you know, than the professional game. And the last time they won a playoff game was 2000 with Wonstadt. And before that, what was it, Jimmy Johnson before he ended up walking up, like you're talking about 96. Was it, was you even born then? Come on, Debo, 89, man.

Oh, 89. Oh, okay. I'm just checking. I'm just saying it. So, you know, I don't know, man. They, um. You saying that they're doing the same thing. I don't know you.

For me, I feel like when I look at it, it's like, it's like the ownership or something, dude. Like the ownership just, they then got stuck in a phase where they just want to try and hire the new young talent and run with it from near. And then when you look at it and you start like really just digging into it. So I like to dig into stuff. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Like the team has been ran by, what's his name, Ross since, what, 08, 09, something like that? The GM.

No, no, the owner. The owner. GMs have been flying left and right. I think their longest tenure GM was, what's his name? Chris Greer or something like that. Okay. He went, what was it, 16 to just this Halloween, he got fired. Actually, on my son's birthday, he got fired.

God, dang. Yeah, yeah. So now you've got to look at it. It got to be an ownership thing. And, you know, you have to start, you know, with the owner. like he got the team in 0809. It was a lawyer. He started off.

That's how he got his money. Lawyer, tax attorney, all that bull, did the real estate. Actually did a good thing with the affordable housing development. Like he did that. But you look at it now, this dude got NFL, NBA, Miami Grand Prix, developed properties in the U.S. London. He got a lot of stuff going on.

He got a lot of things going on. Like New York City, like all that stuff, bro. So he's looking at this as a money investment, you know what I'm saying? Thie Debo, and that's when we said. We may not understand what it takes to get a coach that's, you know, capable of getting the job done. Debo. So, like, we said it's trying, you know what I'm saying, to get the next best thing.

Like, get somebody already proven. I'm with you 1,000 percent. So what we're trying to say is, you're trying to say that there's owners that know what they're doing and there's owners that are just know what's about the money. And when it's an owner, we can't tell the owner what to do. So the owner's going to hire who he wants to hire. He's going to put his foot where he wants to put it because the end of the day, the Miami Dolphins are still making money. They're going to make money regardless. So the smarts of the owner to be able to hire the right people to put them in position to set them up, that's going

to be, that could be a very long time until they figure that out. You know what I'm saying? And people are always like, oh, no, why is it all messed up like this? You don't have an owner that was able to get the right people in place to get the right GM and coach. And now they have to work together because you are an owner. You have the money. Like, that doesn't make you the smartest man in the room to make football decisions to be able to build a roster and make sure everything is good.

You're still going to be able to make money because that's what football teams do if you own the team. The rights from Peacock, from Prime, from all that, that's coming in regardless. So you're going to make money if you're. own the team because you were fortunate enough to be able to buy the team. But for your team to be successful, to hire a right head coach, to get the right GM, to start moving in the right direction to get your team building in the right way, that's, I mean, that's Robert Kraft. That's where Rooney comes in. That's when you have ownership that, all right, we got the right coach. We believe

in him. We're going to kind of get out of the way. The GM and the coach are on the right vibe. You might have an intelligent Robert Kraft. No, we're going to keep Tom Brady instead of being able to step been like there's certain things that owners might be able to do because owners can make the decision whenever they want they own the team but you're smarter you could have to be smart enough to know I'm not the smartest man in the room all the time I got to be able to put people in position to make those decisions so with you saying to Miami Dolphins like you keep trying to get the new young thing that's the owner where you could be like why don't you get an established head coach that's going to come there get culture figure out a GM that he's kind of in cahoots with

then they figured out where we're going with this. The Volkswagen Beetle started out as Hitler's dream car. It wound up as a beloved hippie icon and the best-selling car of all time. How did that happen? I'm Jacob Goldstein. And I'm Robert Smith. On business history, we tell the surprising stories behind the inventions and entrepreneurs that shaped our economy. And the story of the Beetle is truly surprising.

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If you're ready for thoughtful guidance and grounded support, this is the place for you. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What we need to do in the draft, what we need to do here. So getting the right people in position is a big ownership thing, too. that. People like, well, no, how? I mean, the owners can do what they want to do. So is it just about making the money what they're going to make regardless if you own the team or are you going to pick the right people to put in place? You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. I understand that all the way. When you go all the way back, staying with Miami, dude, when they, what was

it? I said 96 was Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy Johnson, that's another time around, I think it was like 94, 95. They ended up letting Schula go. in that process, the guy that acquired the new team in that 94-95 time frame, first thing he did was he hired Jimmy Johnson. And guess who he made his GM? Jimmy Johnson. Okay? And in that process, I think they had like three playoff appearances, maybe one or two,

two or three wins, something like that. And that spun off to something else. But it ended up being, I think it was Wonstadt. Yeah, Wonstadt came after that. Okay. And same thing. But from there, it's been a plethora of, you know, new, new coaches, it's been Aitam that, you know, haven't had a head coaching position yet.

And, you know, it's, it just doesn't, it just doesn't seem to be working out. And, you know, I understand, I think back in 0809, Mark Anthony or something, he was like a minority owner with the Williams sisters. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that right there, just recently, 24. I think he sold maybe 10 or 15% of the team, but you're a minority owner. Like, minority does not mean controlling owner.

You are there simply as a money piece. Like with the Ravens, with the Ravens head, no, what the Ravens owner say? You know, hey, you have a lot to say, but you have no power. Yes. I'm going to listen to you. Say, but when they come down to it, I'm going to be the person that has the power at the end of the day.

Yes. And people, I think people realize that if you just actually change the hat and ask a person, if you run a business, you know what I'm saying? Your employee, how much say does he really have? You're going to listen to him if you're a good owner and like, be like, okay, no, I'm going to take that into consideration. But at the end of the day, whatever you say is going to be what goes. You know what I'm saying?

Mm-hmm. For sure, 100%. because you get all these, like I said, all these businessmen buying these companies, bro. Like, hey, all they want is the R-O-I. Come on, Debo, yes. Best me, baby. If people know that. Yeah, other than that.

They know about that. Like, it ain't, it ain't nothing else happening in going on around here. I guess Sulla, though, he just got him another chance. It looks like over there in Tennessee, he was it, they just finalizing the deal right now in Tennessee for Sala. where do you are you like that selling Tennessee uh yeah yeah I do I do I think it's a I think it's a good defensive coordinator um I mean I don't I wouldn't I'm more I'm more their their offense hasn't really been doing nothing so I mean if he's a good defensive coordinator he can bring the defense in I'm just more with the Tennessee Titans how are they

going to get Cam Ward right and with the offensive coordinator coming in and I just need somebody that's going to have my number one pick in the right vibes. I just need, I don't know. I love him as a coach. I think he's a good defensive mind. But if I'm the Tennessee Titans, I have my number one pick, the coach that I'm bringing in, I kind of want him to be more offensive-minded and be on the vibe of Cam Ward. Hopefully, he brings in a good offensive coordinator that he's rocking with and they can

really build with Cam and do that. Because I think Cam Ward is nice. I just don't think that he's been in a position with a good offensive coordinator to be successful. Yeah, I'm a, I guess I'm like 50-50 and, you know, I'm not kind of leaning like one way or the other. I'm hoping he does have success. But, you know, like you said, he is a good defensive coordinator. He's defensive-minded.

Another thing for me, he was a head coach, even though it didn't go as well. You know, you could have, you can still use that experience, hopefully, and, you know, maybe learn from it. and figure out what it is that you did wrong there and be able to do it right in the other game, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So that right there is a thing that I'm four on, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And like you said, he did a good job with a banged up defense in San Francisco, brother.

You can't, the injury's going to happen. You're a linebacker. He still, he still did it. Come on, he still did it for show. Yeah. But, you know, the thing that I'm kind of against, but like you said, the old coordinator. But here's something else, too, though. Like, when you look at Tennessee, this actually kind of helps him because I believe Tennessee is, what, possibly having like $100 million in cap space.

So he can go out right now and pick up the groceries that he need to help that all this to help his young quarterback. And I'm with you, like, we got to see, you know, what happens when you get the job and who it is that you hire as your offensive coordinator, your offensive staff, you know, to help develop the offense, the young quarterback. We got a young dude over there. And, you know, all along with that, you know, I'm skeptical, just a little skeptical, brother. You know, you had a 20 and 36 record over there. You know what I really want to start knowing no Debo? It would help a lot if we knew when these coaches come over how much control they have. Do you know what I'm saying?

So like it would be able to see if he has control on picking his offensive coordinator because then that would mean we know it's on the coach and not the GM. We know it's the GM's call. So if things don't quite pan out, there's literally, you know what I'm saying? There's, you know who to point the finger to because it's able to people are able to hide behind Oh, no, that's not my pick. I didn't bring them. I want you to succeed.

So knowing the coach, like coach, if he comes in there with, I think with Harbaugh, knowing his contract, what he's asking for, I think those things being lined out. I know if Harbaugh's going in there, Harbaugh's running stuff. He's picking exactly what he wants. So he's the chef. He's doing everything. He's going to, he's the shopper. He's getting all the ingredients.

So when things don't pan out, you're looking dead at Harbaugh. Like, okay, boom, now we know who was making the decisions, who was pulling the strings. Now with Tennessee coach, I'm going in there, are you being able to pick your offensive coordinator? Are you being the one like, no, I'm going to be the one to do it knowing your defensive minded coach? Are you not bringing in the best person just because, like you said, there's not enough, you know what I'm saying, you just don't want nobody to take no shine.

There should be no shine, no nothing. You should get the best person that's going to help out your team, you know what I'm saying, for you guys to win. So I want to kind of knowing that part of like, what's the head coach really doing? Does he have any say so? because I believe the head coach always has say in his staff. I believe the head coach always has 100% say in his staff. Okay.

You get there, you have 100% say in your staff. So that right there is not in question. The only thing that would be in question is how much say do you have over the drafting of players you and your GM are not even close in the comparison of what you believe you have in this athlete versus. But your scouting department is saying what you're saying and then what the GM is saying. So if I'm a head coach and I'm talking about, hey, this guy, you know, I want to get him in the first round. But I got everybody else over here talking about, man, listen, he, he bottom of the second, he early third and most. Now, my GM's saying, hey, he bottom of the second, early third and most.

And I'll have the power to say, I'm taking him in the first. Anyway, that's when it becomes, it becomes an issue. When you're talking, top of the first, bottom of the first, you know, that can be, that can be negotiated. But when you're talking totally different rounds, you know, you're talking first round, third round, first round, you know, into the second round. Like, that's something else to, you know, that's something else totally different. But you say, who gets that, who gets that trick on? I like this, you like this. And I think that's me.

You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yeah, that's the call. Okay. But very few, very few are going to stand up and say that's me because, you know, what is it? Eight times out of ten, it don't work out. And the one time it do work out, you ain't going to say nothing because you got to talk about the times it didn't work out. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Uh-huh. Yeah. So I'm 50-50. I'm hoping he's able to go over there and do something better than, especially on the offensive side than what he did in New York. I think they ended up starting off at it. His first year, I think there was like a 24, and, you know, I think the highest was his 24, and that was his first year. And his lowest, they was 31st.

So they didn't even rank out of the, you know, 24 in those four seasons that he was there as head coach when he was in New York. So I'm hoping to see that his offensive staff has credentials that can, you know, at least on paper, look like they can go out there and get it done. You know, for sure. I will hope so, because now you get another, you get another shot at a head coaching job. You had your defense was solid, offense was sketch. So that's why they got you up out of there. So hopefully you get another one now. Come in there guns of blazing, ready for the offense.

You bring, you know, you know you're bringing defense. So coming there with a good old offense of mine, somebody that really can put points on the board, scheme some stuff up, like some Kyle Shanahan, a young Kyle. Well, you got to look at it when. Who was their very, very, very, very. was just there, right? Yeah. That was, what was it?

24, he was there in 24. Their defense was a two. This year, their defense was like 21st, 22nd. It couldn't have been too many players that left out of that, that major defense dropped that bad. So it got to be, you know,

something as far as scheme. And then they did hire an offensive-minded coach. They hired the OC. That was the old OC for Kansas City. So, you know, that, you know, I mean, sorry, not Kansas City, Cincinnati. So that could be,

that could be something that, you know, might have added to it. And with that, I think, well, who else is it? We got, Harbaugh got the Giants. There's still six openings, dog. Yeah. Still six of them, dude. They got to get to it. Yo.

Question. What's up? Hey, with the bills getting rid of, you know, oh, God, do you, do you think, Do you think Harbaugh or your boy, Stefansky over there kicking itself right now? I think Harball is probably chilling. I think Harbaugh is good. I think Harbaugh is good. I think Schaferansky is probably kicking itself.

Yeah. I'm a, yeah. I think Harbaugh's chilling. Harbaugh is over there in New York, Johns. He got a lot of money. He got Dart. He got Scataboo. He got my man, neighbors.

They didn't have neighbors at all. He's a dog, all these dudes on young rookie contracts and he got a lot of money and he can really come over there and do whatever he wants. So Harbaugh, I think Harbaugh would chill, but I would say definitely the Atlanta coach Safansky. I think he might have got to be able to maybe if he would have been able to get the bill's job, definitely. Because Savansky in Atlanta is throwing me all the way off. I think he would have loved that he would have been more with Josh Allen and just got along with him. you know better than I think he gets along with Atlanta in the vibes out there. Yeah, Harbaugh, I'm what you do.

Harbaugh ain't tripping. My man just signed him a five-year. What's that? He was 20 a year, $100 million. Come on, man. Come on, bro. Because listen, bro, the first thing that goes, that anybody that goes to interview for this head coaching job needs to realize is,

you're getting fired if you do not win a job. Super Bowl, okay? That's what I'm saying. Listen, listen. I'm trying to tell you, listen, bro. I'm trying to tell you, bro. Hey, listen, they also are very likely to have the least amount of patience, okay? Yes.

The least amount of patience, brother. They're coach. When you get in there, you better, hey, man, what's the expected time frame for the Super Bowl? Ten minutes. Because I believe whoever get that job, they're going to be lucky, bro. lucky if they get four years or more on that kind. It's probably going to be like three with a tail.

Brother. To four or five, yes, like you fired Sean McDermott, brother, after he had, how many seasons was that, bro? I think it was nine.

Yeah, nine seasons. Nine seasons. My dude had nine seasons since 2017, okay? They said he had a 66% winning rate, okay? Yeah. And he was eight and eight in the playoffs. Yes. So I had to go look.

So I'm like, maybe it's a what have you done for me lately thing. Like, you know, you ain't did nothing for me for the last four or five years. You ain't won a playoff game. You ain't went to a playoff game. Whatever it may be. Yeah. Nope. That's not the case.

2020, there was two and one in the playoffs, okay? And that was the one they lost to, was it, um, Casey? Was that Casey? What's the name of them? What are the homes in them? It don't matter. They made it to the chance. championship game and lost. Okay. Now, 21 through 23, they won a playoff game in each year. Okay.

Mm-hmm. 24, again, AFC championship, but lost. Yeah. I didn't remember. They went one and one and could have won easily if the call hadn't went however it went. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then you let you fire him immediately. It wasn't even a whole weekend. I mean, you ain't get my man until Monday or Tuesday. You ain't, bye. That was cool. Like, as soon as you, like, they gave him, what, two, three days?

Not even two, three days, bro. They get my boy about 12, 16. They probably had this stuff packed when he came back to the, as soon as he landed at the airport, they had this shit sitting there like here. Don't even go to the office. We got everything right here, man. We got all your stuff.

Not all you. Now, listen, your boy, Stefansky, he probably tripping. He probably kicking himself in the, Oh, he would have loved that job. What? You stepping in already made. Your groceries is already sitting there, okay? All you got to do is not mess it up.

Mm-hmm. And he's going to- Don't get rid of nobody. You see the- You got everything there. Keep everybody there. If you want to bring a couple of your guys, everybody got their guy,

but do not get rid of the OC, the DC, don't, you could, no, you could do it. something else already made he could have he could have been like yeah went there this next year and won the super bowl and been looking at y'all like yeah i told you all was one of the best coach ever brother i just came here year one won a super bowl my man still ain't got one in cleveland kevin stifansky would have been so geeked did you see how much love he was supporting with dylan gabriel or making sure he was fine all making sure he was good he would have been josh allen's best friend making sure

everything was set up perfectly for that man. And I think they would have definitely, he would have, he would have succeeded for sure. Because I think if he's a good coach, and he would have had everything and his power to support that man, Josh Allen, and made sure that he was going to wheel his way to victory. Bring him all the players he could get everything.

So, yeah, I think Kevin Savaski's a little pissed. Oh, I'm 150% pissed, bro. Like, what is he talking about? Like, again, though, like, maybe he was like, yo, I got to take this. I don't know who else going to give me the job. You know what I'm saying? For sure, he got to go get that.

He got to go take that job, though. He got to go take that, for sure. But if the bill job was open, he would have went there first. For sure, brother. Still is, man. What's up? We got a- We got, we got nothing.

No, we got Pat. He said he was disappointed in the lack of opportunities he had this season. He said, I would say I was disappointed with the lack of opportunities I was given. but at the end of the day, I'm a team player and I was proud of myself for not making it about myself. Yes. What do you think about that, John?

I think he said what he said, man. And he waited until the end of the season because they probably asked them, how would you feel about your usage? And he probably was not happy with his usage because I think they used John Luce Smith and then we had Washington and then we had Hayward in there also.

And I mean, I really, I respected. We signed him to a contract where he's making 12 men a year, so we should be using him. And every time he was in the game, he was bawling. He was never not balling. So that's what I can kind of see what he's saying. We brought in Smith. Washington is bawling also.

He's nice, and we still got him under a rookie contract. I think he could have been used better. I think that everything that he's saying is correct. I think he was a team player. I think he knows John Loo Smith is also a good player. Darnel Washington is also a really good player. So he sees that they did have a rookie, and we did bring in a free agent that we're paying some pretty good money too. So we need to give them opportunities.

But him knowing his game, knowing his skill set, knowing what he thinks he brings to the table also, I can see why he feels that way. So that's, I think, why he said it. Yeah, I'm with you. I just don't know what the big deal is that he said it. Everybody can see it. just because I said it out loud, it's a big deal now. Y'all,

that's the question. Right. Listen, listen, they signed a man in what September, a 24 to a four year, 48. Yes,

12 a year. Yes. And it was an 11-6 guaranteed on that. Now, here's where I see where he's like, yo, I'm being underused. What's going on?

Woo-woo. So going into 26, I believe, which is next year. Uh-huh. From here on, he has been paid his whole guarantee. Oh, yeah, yeah. Bro, distillers, once they do it as hard as far, first year, it's done.

Yeah, when 26 hits, that March, what is it, March 12, 13, 14th timeframe, if they let him go before then, I'm pretty sure it's some significant savings on the cap. Oh, yeah. Now, he was only targeted 54 times this year. Uh-huh. Last year, it was 78. It was high as 98 in 2020. And now after this guarantee

looked like it's paid up and like you said, you got some younger players in there. You're trying to see what you could do to work them in there and get from it. But you know what you could get from him. I don't understand why he's not out there giving you what he has been giving you the last three, four years.

I'm with you. Like, if you got him under contract and you're paying him, I would expect you to use him. Like, you still have the younger dues under contract, but when you have a player that you already paid his guarantee up, he has another year or two left. Well, you got to realize, like, with the contract set up, you get back in heavy.

So now a lot of your pay is in your base. So now if a lot of my pay is in my base and my guarantee is already spread out across these years, and I let this guy go at a certain date or before a certain date. The Volkswagen Beetle started out as Hitler's dream car. It wound up as a beloved hippie icon and the best-selling car of all time. How did that happen? I'm Jacob Goldstein.

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Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or what? Ever, you get your podcast. The moments that shape us often begin with a simple question. What do I want my life to look like now? I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford.

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Whether you're navigating something new or returning to yourself. If you're ready for thoughtful guidance and grounded support, this is the place for you. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And I don't have the pain. So now we had salary cap issues right now, bro. We have salary cap issues right now. So now I'm got to where I could say possibly, I want to say it's close to $5 million. No, for sure.

They can save that. In cap space. Yeah. Now you go and you look at other people's contracts like that and, you know, hell, they already let Queen go. The sealers are doing what they, what teams do. If you're not winning, you have younger players. that are in the same position with contract,

on rookie deals that are performing. And because it's still to do a job if they normally pay, the guarantee is up in the first year. So they're able to do that in that signing bonus to where you get paid off.

So now they're able to chop you after that. You know what I'm saying? So like Alex Highsmith, his guaranteed is up. The only one, T.J. Watt, he still got two more years that I guarantee because that's 108. So his is the one with the big one.

But everybody else has contracts, they normally knock out their first guarantee and that signing bonus. So then they have the leverage to chop you whenever they want. There's more normal deals where it's like 10, like they're getting an average salary, a good salary. They think you're not made in the highest pay player, but you're not being a lowest pay player so they can cut you whenever they want because they already gave you that guaranteeing and your signing bonus at the beginning.

So I'm with you a thousand percent. Financial-wise, it would make sense. You know what I'm saying? When you have darned in Washington, plan for a million dollars a year, Right. When you look, he's going to give you the little same thing. Cam Hayward, the little young Hayward. And then you still have Jonu where you had the option to release Johnnu because you gave him the guarantee for the money last season.

So he's seven to the cap. So you got seven with him and you got 12 with five more. Yeah, brother. Yeah, brother. I did not know that, bro. So that's where it's like that could be, that's two players that are making that money where you have two young dudes where it's going to be fire move for 12. if we got... Bro, it was seven?

It was seven? It was seven, brother. This year was seven. Don't, I think I could show you last year might have been nine, and this year probably seven. Bro, that ain't no way, bro. That's over 20 on two tight. It's no way. Debo, I'm not...

I can go back to you and show you. I love contracts. I love looking at the numbers. That's just... It makes me... That's what I always do. I love it. You know what I'm saying?

So I know about the making sure to guarantee with the stillers of, like, yes, John Newsmith, but they don't have to pay him. His guaranteed is up. So they can pay him probably, I think, it's $7 or $9 million this season, or before March they can release him and not have to pay him nothing. Yeah, brother. We didn't even got to coach yet to make a decision on that. But that's what I'm saying.

But that's why I'm going to be a lot of furniture moving, man, whenever you get that code. That's what the same. When you have those vets, though, like, that are still making a little bit. of money when you have the younger dudes like Nick Herbick we got Highsmith still I think the still is looking to to make sure what's going on like there if there's any type of because T.J. is not going to where. Then we have Alice Heismith. He's making 15 million this year, probably 14 million next year.

And then we have Herbick that's on the rookie deal. Then we have Sawyer that's on this rookie deal. We got to figure out what we're doing with Herbick. Because he's going to get like he's going to go into the last year of his contract. So are we going to be paying T.J. Watt, Alex Highsmith. and you got to pay Herbic. So they come looking at the situations like, how was that looking like? So, you know.

I ain't go lie to you, bro. I think they go, I think they go shred up a lot of that defense, man. There was a lot of money over there, and we did not get the results that we wanted, and we need to get something on offense. So whenever the coach come in, you know, I think he goes shred it up and start trying to pick him some groceries on that offensive side that could try and at least, you know, help him right now to a certain point. But whoever the coach is, whoever the coach is, whoever the coach is.

care who the coach is, man. Y'all get ready. We're about to be in the basement. About to be in the basement for a year or two. It's not three. I would say, what type of coach will get, how fast he could turn it around, so, you know, so on. It depends on, it depends on the picks.

It depends on the picks. And it depends on if they're able to perform at a high level. Do you know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, you got it. If you get the quarterback, I mean, this is dependent. Right now, like if you're going to. You also have to be taught.

We've seen a lot of things going on on the defensive side that. Oh, yeah, for sure. It's repeatedly done the same way over and over by multiple people that was just not talked. That got to get scrapped. They got to start from the bottom up. Come in with a legitimate scheme. Everything. Speaking in the same language.

Everybody, our whole scheme is going to be different. It's not going to be the same old, like, little fire zones that they were running. No, no, no, no. When the coach comes in, they're going to be. going to have their system and every coach is going to be speaking the same language as the other coach. Linebackers talking to corners, talking to safeties, talking to D-line. You know what I'm saying? Like just having that basis, like you said, if you don't start from everybody speaking this, this is the way it goes, this is how we run it. There's certain basis to our defense. This is

what it looks like. You know what I'm saying? You have to have that where everybody, no matter who you talk to. No, this is what we're doing, this is how, and this is why. And there's no gray. no, no, no, no, no, no. Everybody's fully 100% bought in to the system, to the scheme. Everybody believes it, and that's just what they do. Like Seattle, like Pittsburgh, when you was there with Dick, that's what they need, like legit. Like, no, everybody knows.

This is what we're standing on. This is what it is. Yeah. It's simple, dude. It's simple. And like you said, the coaching, you got to get, you got to get guys that when they come in there, just offer their credentials, what they know of that person,

what they've seen of that person, their name, like, it's automatic like, oh, yeah, I'm buying it. I'm buying it right now. I'm buying it. I'm buying it. I'm learning what he's teaching me right now. Like, I know what I know,

but right now, this is how we're doing it here. You know what I'm saying? Like, all that. No, no, this is what we used to? I would never want to hear no. This is how, and what are we talking about? I don't care about how you used to do it. I don't care about none of that.

What you about to do is how we do it here, and that's going to get the job done. You know what I'm saying? Like, on the film, is your outside arm free or is it not? Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't shoulder bump on blocks. You can't come down here and do this, dude. You can't do that in the NFL.

They are just going to grab you and hold on to you, and there will be no call. Because it is 100% allowed. You got to come down there, bang them, punch them off, and shed and rip. you can't you you can't do it any other way especially that's what you have to do at your position we got to be guys that can play the position that is needed like like i was saying about 95 like dude i'm wrong dude he's actually a good player they just got him out of position he ain't no nose that boy ain't no knows he can play a rush in though oh he ain't no nose get busy on the russian go check him out go check me now and I ain't go check out of this old pass tape all that bro

go check my little wash bro yeah I was I was surprised. Like I said, if it wasn't for HAMP saying it to me, I never even took a shot at looking at it. I'd have been like, yeah, to get him up out of here, he'd have been gone, you know what I'm saying? Yep. But.

A ham, though. Yeah, hey, ham, yeah, ham, yeah, ham. Like I said, if HAMP your D-Line coach, which is you listen then. Oh, all ears. All ears, bro. Speaking of tight ends, bro. I guess Eric Ebron.

He said... My Paul Ebronius. He said Omar Khan. He said questions if the players respect him. Oh, man. Yeah, he said, every since Omar took over. What have Omar draft picks done? We was there with Omar.

I sound stupid reading this. He's saying they was there with Omar. And basically ain't nobody. respecting and he said just call a spade a spade call it what it is what you think of this joe what year to om what a what year to omar start uh doing uh doing the draft was it like 20 23 because i know he was 24 bro i think it was 20 no sorry it was 22 22 okay because i'm looking his 23 draft class it was brojc jones joey porter junior yes yes Bennett, Washington, and Herbic.

I mean, that right there is a nice draft class, in my opinion. That one right there is nice. The next one, Troy, Zach, P. Dub, Roman Wilson, not bad. And then last year, we had Derek Harmon and Jack Sawyer, then we had Willard, So, I mean, 2003 draft class, I think that draft class was kind of good. What do you feel about Omar? Oh, I like Omar. I have a good relationship with Omar.

Omar's been there since like 2001, dude. You know, he went from the bottom to the top where he's at now. Again, I say the same thing I've been saying. How much control Omar has over that draft process, I know at the end of the day, Mike is 100% in control of who comes in there. He can veto. He can veto top the bottom. I know that.

That's factual. So, you know. He could veto it the whole time. He could veto it. He could veto the whole thing, bro. Like from, at least from, I believe, from like about that 13 to 15 time frame, dude, he could, he could veto. Okay. He was giving that power.

Like, I mean, you can hear him even Ben say, like, Mike has a lot of power in that. building. He had a lot of power in that building. And that was, you know, that was the truth. So how much of this I can accredit to Omar, even though, like you said, hey, it was a good draft class here and there. I don't, I can't, I can't say that. What I can't say is I know Omar got time under Bill Cowher. Omar got time under Mike Tomlin. Omar got time under the OGM, Kevin Colbert. Kevin Colbert, yep, you know, all the way up until, you know, Kevin, uh, ended up leaving in 2022, you know, I know he spent a tremendous, I talked to him in person, I know he spent a tremendous amount of time learning and talking to Kevin, you know what I'm saying? I've had

multiple conversations, interactions with, with Omar talking about football, his goal of wanting to becoming a GM in the NFL. And, you know, the years and the time that he took the steps that he took, you know, learning, trying to accomplish that goal, you know, just spending time and being in draft meetings going through that whole process since 2001, bro. You know, and I think in 21, it was actually reported that he had a job offer or it was like very close to actually being done with Houston before they hired, what was the dude name? Nick Corsi, Corso, what was his name? From Houston before, before D'Amico. Nick Casario.

Yeah, Casario from Houston. like, dude. But I also know he wanted to be the next GM for the Pittsburgh Steelers. When the time came that Kevin Colbert would step down and he got that chance in 22. Probably, I don't know, I'm just speculating in 21 when he had the opportunity. Maybe it was told that, you know what, he was going to be stepping down. You would have the opportunity here. You go and you look, just July of last year, they just signed him to a three.

year contract extension, making him there through the end of the 2028 season. So the Steelers obviously have confidence in him and his abilities and what he can do. So I don't know, you know, I don't know what old dude is talking about right here with, you know, guys not having, you know, respect for him and all that other stuff. You know, he went, he's been through the whole process. So, I mean, it may have been a situation where, you know, he was in control of making the money work. So guys originally when I first got there,

there's like, oh, that's the money guy, you know? And as I got to know him, it's not just the money guy. He's the guy that makes sure, like, the coach wanted to do this or do that. How do you make that work? Yeah, you either got to do this, do this because he got to keep controlling the cap, make sure we're under the cap, that we're going to go over the cap, how much cap, all that other stuff.

So that may be a situation where he might have got, you know, feeling a certain way about a, you know, situation. and how he left or whatever it may be. 1,000%. I know Ibron personally, and I know we basically left at the same time. And you know how it is. When you start seeing these people

and they act like you have regular conversations and you want to ask them questions and they're they keep it. They're nice to you. But at the end of the day, when it comes to the business side, they will still chop you and not really like send you an offer.

Like you feel like, Like anything, like offer me something. And maybe it's just not even, they just won't offer you. Like it's a business is business to the point where sometimes that thing gets a little bit like, dang, I just hollered at, bro. I've been hooping. You think you're going to get offered something. I'm just saying me personally because I know Ebron and I know how that drink a rock. And then it just won't be nothing.

So that's business that you really got to realize. But then that's a part of where you could really be like, I talk to them. We sit down and eat breakfast before we go into the things. It can make you feel like somebody like doesn't owe you. But like, tell me, you know what it is. Like, or just blatantly be like, no, instead of having to. Well, you got to understand. A lot of, a lot of people in those positions don't, don't tell it, you know, how

blatantly is. And they try and they try and sugarcoat around it or just flat out. If you don't talk to, you know, Coach B and I'm Coach A and I'm, I'm, I'm, I say, damn, Joe, we really want to keep you, but, you know, we can't do it, man. The cap is this. Yeah, yeah. We can't do it because, you know, Coach B don't really, he ain't really feeling you. And he was the, you know, he was the deciding, you know, vote.

That ain't necessarily true. And when you start, you know, having real relationships with all these people and it's more than just football, now you end up finding out things that you didn't know, you know what I'm saying? So I think that could be a situation of one of those things. So I don't know. I don't know. But when it come down to it, man, the salary cap guy, he only liked by guys the day they signed.

After that, that's it. Can I tell you? I came from Cleveland, me and Omar, we had a great relationship. And when I had my re-up, we had another great relationship. No question. No question. And they don't realize that he, without you going out there and playing, to the standard that they wanted,

then you got that re-up. He's not in control of that. He's just in control of trying to make it work so that they can get you and keep what they need in stack. That's it. You want to make it fit, make it work. Yeah. You got to make it fit and make it work.

That's all that comes down to, man. Look here, man. I think we got a super chain here, man. What we got, Debo? It ain't much, though. We say it's the underscore, Big underscore. What's that? Rique donated $5.

Appreciate you. What a week? Ebo and Joe. Are there any D.C.s in the league now that can come close to Dick Lerboe style? Hell no. Dang. Straight like that. 100.

No. Can't nobody. Listen, y'all don't understand, man. Can't nobody do what Leboe did. That fire zone. defense is LeBose. Do you understand like that is his. It is literally in his head.

There is no hard copy of Dick LeBow's whole defense in existence sitting on a paper that he has put down on and said, here is the fire zone that I know about. I talk directly to him. I said, Coach LeBoh, because I wanted to get some knowledge of it. I'm thinking, you know what, I might just go ahead and get into some of this high school stuff. Let me see what I could do. I was thinking about it. It was foolish. You know what I'm saying?

And I'm like, coach, do you have like your defense, like on, like, can you send me your defense? Coach said, you know, I can't, I can't send it to you. He said, I could tell you all about it. Oh, well, he ain't giving the king giving up the defense. I said, what you mean, coach? He said, I ain't, I don't got it. down. He said, he said, it's in my head. He said, I can tell you everything about it. I know it from from right to left. I said, so if I want to come, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

throw the defense off his head. Nothing in his hand. It's here, bro. He's a, he's a scientist. This man got, this, listen, Coach the bowl damned a 90-year-old, bro, and he can tell you what happened in training camp on whatever day it was. And, verbatim just spit it out there, dude. Because he's a mad scientist. 62 interceptions, bro. 62. That man. 62. That's crazy.

That's crazy. And he ain't getting into the hall until they saw that he was the coldest defense coordinator around. Stop playing. That's crazy. 60 pitch, bro. Stop playing. Boy, just trying to get the 30. Out of here, man. We've got this last super chat, man.

What we got, man. Let's see what it says. It says, Creek Knock 6-280. We're looking at this on this phone. 6288. I'm tripping. Let me pull it up.

6288. It says, I'm a Falcon fan. Can you two help me understand why in the world we will hire Stefansky? This, we know, knowing we basically have a quarterback issue and hire a coach with the worst track record, those with those same problems. Hey, go, explain it.

They are saying what I was saying. And I was hoping and thinking that Matt Ryan says he was, with it saw when they've been able to read the room, oh, my, this elephant in the room, Dion played for the Falcons, it's just, it just doesn't really fit. I think they have a nice, they have another, I don't know. I don't know why they did it. I hope that he comes in there and really tries to, he knows if he comes in it,

he must have told them during the hiring process, oh, I believe in Pettics. I think I could do damage with him. He would be like, he must have gave a good sale because other than that, I don't see it. I saw the way he supported Dylan Gabriel in a great way, had his back, you know what I'm saying, wanted him to do well. But I hope that he gives him some good vibes. He did a good job with Baker when they went to the playoffs. But I'm confused by the hire if you were to ask me. Yeah, I ain't got no answer.

I'm going to go with Joe. I'm just, I would have been probably a little happier if he had went to, like, Baltimore. You know, other than that, I really ain't got no answer for you, you know what I'm saying? Look here, man. We're a little old. Yo, we want to thank you guys for joining us on this episode of Debo and Joe.

Please make sure you like and subscribe and download the show, Joe. Please. Please make sure you like and subscribe and we will see you on Friday. Hey, we'll be back talking about them championship games. Y'all come on back here now. Now, you hear on Friday.

Come on all at us. Come on, Alex. You know. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.