Nightcap - Deebo & Joe - Mike Tomlin Steps Down as Steelers Coach + Giants Hire John Harbaugh

Episode Date: January 16, 2026

Join NFL Legends James "Deebo" Harrison and Joe Haden as react to Mike Tomlin stepping down as head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers and discuss the future of the organization heading into a crucial offseason. Later, they break down the breaking news that John Harbaugh is set to become the new head coach of the New York Giants and much more! Download the PrizePicks app today and use code DEEBOJOE to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/DEEBOJOE Timeline:00:00 - Mike Tomlin steps down10:30 - Why Tomlin doesn't have a coaching tree24:40 - Is Tomlin a Hall of Fame coach?32:00 - Mike Tomlin lied on Deebo?52:00 - Giants hire John Harbaugh1:08:00 - Play or Fade presented by PrizePicks (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Club #NightcapSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Listen to Valley of Shadows on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Debo and Joe. I'm your host, James Debo Harrison. I'm here with my co-host, Joe Hayden. Please make sure you like and subscribe. You don't want to miss nothing. How you doing the day, Joe?

Bro, I'm doing. I'm doing pretty good, Debo. I'm doing good. Another day the Lord is made. But honestly, with Coach T stepping off, you know, it was. I was a little emotional. I'm happy. We're going to get into it.

I'm happy if I happened and how he's able to walk away. But, you know, I legitimately, you know what I'm saying? It hit me for a little bit, but I rock with Coach Teak big time. Okay, okay. With all the, you know, all the stuff coming out, you know, like he's the all-time, he's one of the all-time greats and all that. Do you agree with that? Do you disagree with that? This is.

You know, hold up. Before you answer that, though, I also want to know what? your measurement for all-time greatness. That's what I have to tell you, too. When we have the conversation of all-time grades, that's the same conversation I feel like I have when we talk about Hall of Fame. Like, is he in the Hall of Fame?

There's different classes. Are we talking like Michael Jordan, you know what I'm saying? Kobe Bryant, LeBron James. Kyrie Irving is in that same Hall of Fame, but I feel like there might be a different class. So when we talk about the greatest coach of all time, I don't think Mike Tomlin might not go down at the greatest coach of all time. No. There's plenty of coaches you can go with Bill Belichick, you can go with Chuck Noe, you can go with other coaches for sure that are

in a different class that you could say, that have done it in a way, higher level. But when we talk about greatness, when we talk about Hall of Fame status, I don't like to bash coach Tomlin and put another man down to raise another man up. So I would say, when you say greatest of all time, I don't think so. You know what I'm saying? Hall of Fame is why I say, yes, he's in the Hall of Fame for sure. Like there's a room for the LeBron James and the Michael Jordan's in the Hall of but still, Kyrie Irving is a Hall of Fame player. And that's what I put it with like Bill Belichick, Mike Tomlin. You know what I'm saying?

You can put greatness of other coaches that are better than him that I've seen before, that have done it to the greatest level. But when you say, is Coach Tomlin a great coach? I can say, yes, he's a great coach. Maybe not the greatest of all time. There's plenty of other coaches you can pick, but I can put him in that class. I can put him in that room. So with me, I think he is a Hall of Fame coach.

I think he's a great coach. He's one of the best coach. He's the best football, NFL football coach that I've ever played for. So there's certain people that play for, you play for other coaches. But for me personally, I play for Eric Mangini. I played for Pat Schermer. I played for Rob Chisensky. I played for Mike Petton and I played for Hugh Jackson.

And then when I went to the Steelers, I played for Mike Tomlin. Out of my NFL career, I played 12 years in the league. I would like to call myself a great NFL player, a dude that comes in there and does his job at a very high level. my best coach ever by far was Mike Tomlin. I never went to a game ill-prepared. I felt like when I was there, he gave us the keys to victory. He let us know the winning edge. I never had a winning edge meeting with the head coach before,

where you would go and meet with just the D.Bs and a couple of the outside linebackers and get the breakdown of while we're running these plays, while we're doing these certain schemes, and what to expect. So in my position, coach Tomlin, great coach, great leader of men. Great, rah-rah, his team meetings, the way that he did that stuff.

19 years, 13 player appearances, seven AFC championships and a Super Bowl and went to two. That's nothing to shun on or shy about or take lightly. So I like the way that he was able to, I think at the same time, both two things could be right. I think his time was up in Pittsburgh, for sure. You know what I'm saying? Like the last couple of years, he just hasn't been able to do it. So him being able to read the room, not get kicked out of the room. You want to be desired and not be putting up with.

So when you're in the stadiums and you start hearing the booze, Coles Tomlin's not stupid. He's not blind or deaf. When he's been hearing the rumblings for years of all these, all these 800 seasons aren't good enough for us. This isn't going to be good enough. So him to go in there and keep it where T.J. Watt, I don't think Highsmith, I don't think dudes really knew that he was probably about to leave.

But to go in there, keep it going, still make the playoffs. And then once the season was over and they didn't, he hasn't been doing as well as he should have been doing. doing, he gracefully bowed out. Told him like, Rooney, I'm ready to step off. I'm ready to go. Like, this isn't really what's going on for me. So I think it was his time to go. I loved the way he was an

adult, read the room, didn't have to either force his way to come back next year and do all that stuff. I think Coach C. like to be in there. Love feeling wanted. Likes when you come into the stadium knowing they're cheering for you, the room for you, but the back end of the fans and hearing what was going on and seven straight

years of them not winning any playoff games. That's real live. That's happening on the football field. So him taking some accountability for that, too, is legit. But for me, I think he is a great coach, but there's levels to greatness. And I can say how other people could think there's other great coaches, but in my eyes and from my perspective of knowing how to go into the games, what he gave me when I was there, I love that man.

And yeah, so that's what it is with me. Okay. So you're not saying the greatest, one of the greatest to ever do it, right? No, no. Okay. All right. That's all right. I'm cool with you on that.

Now, great. I can't, I'm not going to say I can agree with you on that. Okay. The reason I can't agree with you on that is because I feel that just looking at what I'm seeing right now from guys saying, you know, you know, Coach Tomlin is the greatest coach to ever do it. One of the greatest to ever do it. He's a leader of men, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. All this stuff.

I will agree with him. He is a leader of men. But to be a good coach, you have to be a leader of men. The guys have to respect you. They have to know what you're talking about. That the decisions that you make, like you said, going into the game, it works. It pans out. You're able to do it.

You got to buy into it, okay? But the major reason I feel a lot of guys is saying he's a great coach is because Coach T. a all time great motivator, dude. Yes. He is a all time great motivator. He has the gift of Gab. That's Coach T. Okay. And

he's great at getting guys to, you know, feel good about their self, boost their confidence. You know, he's hitting them with the Tomlinisms and all that. You know, it's a five-star matchup because we're in it. Standard is the standard. Don't blink.

If you blink, pill your eyelids off. You know, go on and on. Yeah. And players, like, they're taking that motivation and the leader of men, and they're calling it greatness. You can be a leader of men and not be a great motivator. Some people don't have to get the gab, Joe. Tell, you and I know, we're in the game,

we're sitting there before the game, and we're about to go out. Yeah. And the coach says, hey, so-and-so, get up and do the pre-game before we walk out. And the first thing to tell you yourself is hell no, not him. It's not that he is not a leader of men. Nine times out of ten, he got that sea on his chest. But his motivation game is trash.

Yeah. And to me, a great coach dude has an added dynamic to it. And that's mentor. And I'm not talking about personal and emotional, because that's what I'm hearing from a lot of guys. I'm talking about you learned enough from this person, that they took your teachings, your guidance, and went on to become a version of you,

i.e., a coaching tree. Okay? It's been almost 20 years, and Mike T. don't have a coaching tree. Why is that, Joe? I don't know. You got no answer. You have no answer

why he doesn't have a coaching tree after being in the NFL almost 20 years. But he's, He is one of the all-time greats and no owner, no GM. Nobody has Camman said, you know what? I want one of your coaches that are under you. And I want that for my team. I can use that person to lead my team, to lead my defense, to lead my offense.

Can I ask you just at the same, as the same time? I'm going to submit you back with one question. I'm not assured of the coaching, the hiring process. are these all coach T's is he 100% He brings in the coach T. 100%. Remember, Coach T promotes from within. Okay, no, no, I hear that.

I'm just asking. I'm just asking. I'm blind asking because I don't know. Certain coaches don't have that pool. I don't know where I was at. Coaches was getting fired. GMs were staying. GMs were staying. The coaches are getting fired.

So you don't know how I don't know. And I need to know the level of the level of, The level of pool makes it easier for me to give accountability. So if you're able to bring in your coaches, like you said, if you have reason to bring in your coaches and you do bring in these coaches and then they don't happen to pan out and they're getting fired and they're not treying off and they're not doing well, then that's stuff that I did not know. So that brings knowledge to me that puts that on the head coach. I'm thinking more. It's got to be everybody's in cahoots. It's more than, you know what I'm saying?

It takes more to two to tango. Okay, no question, but this is something, like I said, that I know. Okay, okay. You don't have an answer to that, okay? No. So with that said, let's get the little people, let's get the people a little insight because they say I'm hating. That's what, that's been the story since they released James in 2017, which James is hating on Coastey. Okay, Joe.

So this is what we go do, Joe. We go give, we go give these people that are here. I wanted to call them something else, but I'm not a little. listen like. Okay. So Joe, you and I have both played in this league for a long time, right? Yes. Yes. And it's things that goes on in this league that we will never talk about to the regular public because it's just an unspoken rule that you don't do. Yeah. I was a thousand percent agree. Well, that's unless somebody speaks out against you, then that's a little different. And the crazy thing is, usually when that happens, the people don't believe. it. And when somebody

speak that out loud, they don't believe it. Yeah. Because he said, they're going to say it. They're agreeable, right? Okay. Okay.

So now. Or snitcher. Right. Right. It's not believed he's saying this because of this. He's saying this because of that. Okay.

So we're giving that, we're both in agreeing on that statement. It's a valid thing. Yeah. Now, the reason this doesn't happen is because a lot of guys are trying to get back

into the NFL when they're done. So if you break that unspoken rule, it's highly unlikely you're going to get in because if you did it to them, you could do it to me. Would you agree with that? Debo stamp. Yes. Okay. Now, now that said, also know what's going on at other teams, at other leagues, especially now because guys are friends with other players on other teams. And they talk to each other and tell each other what's going on at.

other teams. And the coaches and management of those teams do the same. Would you agree with that? Yes. Okay. Now we're getting somewhere, Joe. So this is what I believe is been happening in Pittsburgh and why Coach Tomlin doesn't have a coaching tree after almost 20 years because these GMs and these owners know what's happening behind closed doors. So it would make zero sense for them to go and get a guy and promote him when they already know he doesn't have the skills to do the job. Would you, would you, would you, would, would that make sense to you, I mean, I mean, I didn't have a, I didn't have a reason. And when you broke down what you just said, that that sounds like a reason. That would make sense.

Okay. Now, you add that to a statement that was released where Art said none of his coaches are up for the head coaching job. Go find another job. that would be more highly likely that they would go on or that or or the reason why he doesn't have a coaching tree. Okay. Would you, would, would you agree with that? I would, I would, I would say he might, look, if he don't have a coaching tree, I can say that he hired, he was bad at hiring coaches.

The dudes that he thought were going to be good. The thing were not good. You know what I'm saying? Like, I could say that. You can say, you can say that he made a mistake in hiring coaches. Yes. Yes, I could say that. I can say that.

If he was accountable for hiring these offensive coordinators that haven't been really doing too well, then I would say yes. Right. And do the defensive coordinator. But yes, yes. So at some point, we had almost six, seven, eight openings. And not one of these other coaches were mentioned for the head job, except for, what's his name, the OC? But he already had a head job. So he's not considered to be a tree that would come from Tomlin anyway.

Okay. Okay. Fuck his name. You know I'm talking about, the OC. All right. So now they go with the, oh, he's did so, oh, he's did so much with so little, right? Huh?

Yes. He's did so much with so little. And I give him credit for that. You know what? I give him credit because that's what a good coach does, okay? Yes. But I also have to take credit away because he's been there 19 years, and he's 100% responsible.

for that roster. I got my got a thing then. That's what that's going on. Okay. And like the Ravens owner said, he said, I'm going to give him save and no power. Uh-huh. That was how he operated.

He's going to give you safe, but at the end of the day, he's going to have the power to make the pick or decision of the player that he wants. Okay? And honestly, I don't have a problem with that because I'm the head coach.

Yeah. I'm the one that's going to get fired if this go wrong. Okay. Who is, who is the one? we just, but right before Omar, it was a man. Kevin Coburn.

So you're telling me now that they, they were working together, but Coach T had the final set. I would say sometime between 13 to 15, Coach T got say of what it was he wanted to do, who he would be able to pick when it came down to a decision of who has the say.

Okay. Okay. This is good knowledge, with me, D. No, now go back to that. Now go back to that. Okay. So we ain't want to play all games since, what, 15, 16, right? And that's on him. He's done a horrible job in the draft process, a horrible job. If you go back to 2015 to now, we have only given two players in those first two rounds long-term extensions, okay? T.J. and Fryer move. Two out of 15, that is 100% him.

That is 100% him. Why? Why is that? Why ain't you give more guys extensions? I mean, I guess the main ones was like, I say, I was thinking, Juju, we say Shazir got hurt. Sorry, that was a good, that was a good pick. Shazir got hurt, Juju, Deontay.

It's 15 all together. Only two of them got long-term extensions. And say it could have been three or say she or didn't getting hurt. Is that still a good percentage? No. No, it's not. It's not. But a great coach made those decisions.

And he got all that power. Okay. And another reason I believe he wanted to get that power is he came in. He came in. He made great coaching decisions when he came in. First thing he did, he kept the whole defensive staff. you got a defense that was ranked a one, a four, and a nine in the three years before that, you can't really let that go because if you let that go in the defense you throw in there,

don't do no better, you might be out of a job before even starts. But that's what I'm saying. You can't blame me. That's smart. That's smart. That's what I'm saying. That's a good coach. I'm agreeing with you.

Yes. Okay. Now, he went in, B.A., Bruce Ariens. Bruce Arias was promoted to the offensive coordinator. again, a good coaching decision. Why? B.A was the receivers coach. He was brought in under Cower,

but you got Ben, who was just now starting to come into his own, and you want to tell him he got to learn a new system, that wouldn't be a good decision. That's very smart on his behalf. That is a good coaching decision. Because of that, he went and won a Super Bowl in year two and went back again two years later.

Yes. Okay. I give him credit for that. Okay, good. Okay. But what I don't give him credit for is because he did not pick those players. Those are Bill Cowers players. And that, again, is another reason why I believe he was looking for power.

As much as he say he don't hear the outside noise, he heard people talking about that was Cowher's team. You just took Cowers team to the Super Bowl. In year two, you go and win the Super Bowl. You go back again. after that. And when you look at the roster, I believe the most was like three, three starters on defense.

And the first one might have been one or two. I think Woodley was one. And Timons, I think, was rotating with foot. Okay. The one we went back and we ended up losing, it was Timers and Woodley. Those were his two. And I think it was one more.

I don't remember who it was. Okay. So now, you go from there since our last playoff win in 2016 under his guidance him being able to pick who he want we are getting further

and further away from a championship Joe I would say the two years you're correct the 16 I feel like that year when you won the playoffs that was that was that was the beating Jesse James year that was the beating Jesse James and then the next year, 2017, that was when we went 13 and 3, had to buy, and that's when

Shazir got hurt, and we brought up my man, Sean Spence, from the couch at the crib, and Jacksonville totaled on us, and we gave up 45 points. So I think those two years 16, 17, bad luck, bad luck, bad luck, great teams, bad luck. Great teams, bad luck. All right, so you got there. From that point on, after you said that, from that point on, after 17, I, Then I'm with you. Things we didn't look good.

And I think that's when Coach T started realizing that it wasn't looking good either. Now, hold on. I want you to think about this. Now, what year you got there? You got there at 17, right? I got there at 17. Okay. So from 15 until 18, the offense was never ranked lower than a 4.

So all these people that want to say, he never had a quarterback. He never had this. Aaron Rogers is the first quarterback he had. Y'all just throwing Ben out of the way. window. You talked about offense that was ranked four, three, three, and seven, okay? And in that time, we made a TFC championship game and we lost two times in the first round and didn't even make it one year to the playoffs.

Along with that, as you said, you came in 2017. We had a fifth ranked defense in 2017 that lost in the first round, as you just said, And we had a sixth defense in 2018. And you're pairing that with a three and a four offense. But you got to do more. You don't even make the playoffs. But again, you're saying that's one of the great coaches of all time. Right, bro?

Bro. Not all the time. That's what he's a great. He's a great Hall of Fame coach. For sure. For sure. Okay. So you don't see this as maybe a.

dismalement. No, no, no, no. Look, coaches come in the league, like, for the consistency is still something. We can't say, like, he under-performed some of these years. It should have been more Super Bowls than not. He did go to the big game and win it. You say it was the other people's team. You still got to go out there and coach him.

You still got to be able to lead him the whole season, all season, everything, keep him motivated, keep him going. So all that stuff is difficult, it's difficult to do. When you go with no years of having Duck Hodges, then from people, People start getting hurt. Who picked him? I'm just saying, no matter who's there, you coach, you, that's what you're saying. When he's getting more.

He is, he, if that's his, right, he's getting more with less. You're going to give him more reason. Okay. Right. He's getting more with less. We can say that it was times where they're like, oh, the stills won't make the playoffs. The steers make the playoffs and get popped out in the first round. He got more with less, but he get way less with far more.

A great coach don't do that, Joe. Yeah. A great coach don't do that, Joe. Joe, you came from Cleveland. I'm knocking you and nothing like that. But you went from Cleveland to what you had to Mike Tomlin. I went from Bill Cower, Mike Tomlin, to Cincinnati with Lewis.

And then my last ended up coming back to the Steelers and then finishing off with Belichick. Okay. Okay. So what would you rank your coach? Where would you rank the order of Mike Tomlin with them with those other coaches? I would rank Bill. Oh, well, hold on.

I would rank Belichick, Cowell, Tomlin, and then Lewis. Okay. That's where I would rank him, okay? Now, he's a good coach, okay? A good coach finds a way to motivate his players, to lead his players, okay? And he gets the potential out of his players, okay? but the only problem with motivation because he's a great motivator is it doesn't last long. It's very inconsistent, bro.

It's a feeling-based thing. Motivation is. And that's what we've been seeing in Pittsburgh. It is emotional, feelings-based. It's inconsistent play, coaching for the last decade could because our coach is a great motivator, not a great coach. Just like what you're seeing right now, with all these guys with these emotional attachments, you being one of the guys included, that it's not performance based on the field. It is personal experience and relationship based.

You came from a situation where you didn't even know what a good coach was to now you're saying that's a great, I know what great coaches look like. I know what great coaches look. I know how they move. I know how they approach. I know what my measurement of greatness is. Is Coach Tia Hall of Fame coach in your opinion? Say what?

Is Coach Tia Hall of Fame coach in your opinion? No. Okay, so now that's, yeah, that's actually crazy. Okay. Yeah, so we're just... The thing I can't give him a Hall of Fame coach for is because he hasn't made disciples. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyankowali. And I'm Hurricane DeBolu.

It's a new year. And on the podcast's Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that. We break down the topics you want to know more about.

Sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us, affects our overall health. We talk about all the ways to keep your body in mind, inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other. Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every January, we're encouraged to start over.

But what if this year is about slowing down and learning how to understand ourselves more deeply? What if this year is about giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help? I'm Mike Delarocha, host of Sacred Lessons. This is a podcast for men navigating stress, emotional health, fatherhood, identity, and the unspoken pressures were taught to carry alone. We talk honestly about mental health, about healing generational wounds, and about learning how to show up with more presence and care.

If you want a healthier relationship with yourself and the people you love, then Sacred Lessons is the podcast for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Dolorotia on America's number one podcast network, IHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike DeLauce and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. Hey there, this is Dr. Jesse Mills, director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health and host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, guys everywhere make the same resolutions.

Get stronger, work harder, fix, what's broken? But what if the real work isn't physical at all? To kick off the new year, I sat down with Dr. Steve Polter, a psychologist with over 30 years' experience, helping men unpack shame, anxiety, and emotional pain they were never taught to name. In a powerful two-part conversation, we discuss why men aren't emotionally bulletproof,

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you stop powering through pain and start understanding what's underneath, listen to the mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. This show contains information subject to, but not limited to personal takes, rumors not so accurate stats and plenty more what's up man this your boy nav green from the broken play podcast

look it's the end of the season the playoffs are here but guess what it ain't the end of your season you can always tune in with broken play podcast with nav green on the black effect podcast network another team who ain't going to the playoffs they cheese what's a rap it's time to rebuild who your MVP right now then the drake may up there josh allen up there still oh my boy matthew staffer Where did he vote Knicks at?

He ain't too far behind. He did all this talk. What Matthew Stafford is doing statistically, bro, is crazy. Bro, you know I ain't no Josh Allen fan. But Matthew Staff forgot. Better weapon. Caleb Williams. Hey, he should be in that conversation.

In what conversation? He should be in it. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcast. Telling me, you're a Hall of Fame coach. No one has followed you. No one has to be the thing. That can't be the thing.

He's the only coach that has coached this long and does not have a tree, bro. Guys are emotionally attached to him. I'm not going to say, no, no, no, I'm not going to not give him the Hall of Fame nod because he's a bad at hiring offensive coordinators. When I talk to. And you think that is a thing that he's bad at doing? Or do you think that is a thing that he purposely does to keep position and power? No, no, no.

I don't think he self-sabotages. I'm not saying you self-sabotage. If you're hiring other coaches that aren't good enough because you think they're going to take the spotlight out of you. Aha. Aha. Is it enough spotlight? Is it enough spotlight?

No. Is that what you were saying? Listen, listen, Joe. Is it enough spotlight to go around? You got to realize a lot of coaches, when they get this head coach thing, it's a lot of ego that go with that. It's a lot of ego that go with that. Okay?

Now, a great coach, dude, like the measurement of greatness, like, it's not based on personal experiences and relationship you have with them. It is purely on what you did as a coach. Did you get championships? What about wins and losses? Yes, wins and losses is great,

but those wins and losses have to add up to championship. He has a ship. Okay, so I'm the greatest of all time as a linebacker because I got two Super Bowls. No, no, no, no, just what I'm saying. That's what you're saying. No, no, I don't like, I don't, he, but why, why not? He went to the playoffs 13 times out of his 19 seasons. He went, he won the AFC championship seven times.

How many times did he win? He won and won. He won and won, but we're not saying that he's the greatest. No, no, no, no. How many playoff games did he win? Because when you look at the greats, the measurement of greatness for all-time greats, like everybody is saying right. now nobody has a negative postseason record and i can go back back like you go back to

george hallis six and three you go back to don schula 19 and 17 it's still better than what he had like even paul brown 908 bill bellichick 31 and 13 bro andy andy reid 28 and 17 like you want to hear some all this time let's playoff record we have we have at least we have one Grant. Can you tell me what time is this playoff record? No. I don't know. Why not? Because what is it? What is it? 8 and 12. Huh? What is it? What is it? What is it? What's his playoff record? You don't know it? What is it?

But that's the measure of... What's his playoff? He's a Hall of Fame. He fought Hall of Fame record. He mentioned. What's his playoff record, Debo? I don't know, Joe. I don't know. You don't know either? You said it was because of playoffs, but I'm just trying to figure out. I mean, if you're going to argue that point, he won a number. I mean, look, he won a ship. He hasn't had more losing seasons than winning season. You're not going to win it every year. One team's going to win it.

8 and 12, bro. He 8 and 12. Oh, that's what I thought it was. 1812. One team's going to win it. So him being into the dance, like, why? Okay, so a Hall of Fame, listen, listen, Joe, so a Hall of Fame coach should be making history for maybe having the longest losing streak

in playoff history. Since it began, you're tied with Marvin Lewis as the longest head coach to NFL history, you're tied as the longest Lucas Street seven games straight. That should be a, that's a great coach. That's definitely not, it doesn't, it's not a good stat, but you got to put the good with the bad. You can't just take away all of the stuff we said before

when he first got out there. You just said Hall of Fame was because of playoffs. Which one is it, Joe? He's a Hall of Fame coach. Because of what? Because that he's went, because we went 19 seasons with zero losing records. That doesn't happen.

And that's just not easy. When you, you just overshadowed that. You know what I'm saying? 13, he did go to the playoffs 13 times. He did go to the Super Bowl two times. He did win. So you're good with 8-8. I mean, you've been in Cleveland.

His record is better than 8-8. His record is 190. He's won a 192. This is the measurement of a Pittsburgh Stiller. He's 192 and 114. So he's better than 8-8. His overall record is better than 8-8, and he's won a Super Bowl. So I understand.

It's his time. Well, I'm still not saying it's not his time to go. Like, his time is good. I'm not saying it's not his time to go. I'm talking about great. Yes. What's his Hall of Fame qualification for me, for you? I just was giving it to you.

I'm going to keep, you want me to keep saying the same thing over and over again? You said playoff record, then you said, I said he went to the, he's played, he was a coach 19 years, right? 13 playoff appearances. Seven AFC championships. Two Super Bowl appearances. One Super Bowl victory. Okay. Okay.

So anybody that wins a Super Bowl should be a great coach. Whoever keeps this long line, a jevity of consistency of winning, keeping their team in the fight, you got to have a dog in the fight. So you got to have 19 years and you got to have it. No, no, no, no, no. You don't have to have 19 years.

You don't have to have 19 years. He could have done better. He could have done more than this. But that's what I'm still saying at the same time. That's why he's not the greatest coach of all time. But he's a damn sure great coach that deserves to be in a Hall of Fame. That's all I'm saying. Okay.

So again, for me, what I'm seeing, what is being said out here is the emotional attachments these guys have to Mike Tomlin. And for me, I didn't have that emotional attachment with him. I can respect that you didn't have the emotional attachment. If I had stopped playing maybe in 2012, I might be one of those guys that. was saying the same thing. You know why, Debo, because then we speak this too. It's a relationship thing. You and Coach Tomlin have years with each other

that at the same time, one time, when you're falling, hooping, everything, then another relationship where you're like, you felt like you was probably done dirty. Did you wrong? Said some things lied, you know what I'm saying? So a whole different thing going on where, you know what I'm saying? How can people then?

That's why you can sit there and say that is that type of way. Me too, at the same way. When I wanted to redo my deal, we're talking, oh, yeah, Joe, you're going to finish your career here. And then all of a sudden it went crickets, I could feel some type of way. No, no, no, see, it's totally different. You're saying that, oh, you thought you were going to finish your career there and dot-da-da-da-da-see. What that gives me is I have clarity because our relationship was business. It was just that.

It was business, okay? So how to say and go, Joe, I lie for you before I lie to you. Yeah. The only one thing I was taught by my parents is you never lie to me because if you lie to me, I can't help you. And then I can't trust you. Okay. The first time I know he lied to me was 2010, but that wasn't the biggest thing because I didn't have that relationship with him that I understood. It was no obligation for him to tell me the truth.

But the big thing was the first time I know he lied on me. And that was 2013. Oh. And as much. And he doesn't say, or as much as he says he doesn't listen to the outside noise, I found that to be a lie in 2018. You want to know how I know, Joe? How you know, Debo?

Because he texts me. He was into his feelings, Joe. Because I said that Belichick was a better coach than him. They asked me a question. And I asked. I was on Fox in 2018, brother. I never forget it, okay? I was on with Skipp and Shannon

and they asked me and I gave my opinion on what it was and and why it was, okay? Now, he responded with something like Woodley was a smarter player than you blah, blah, blah. You know

what? I don't even want, I want to give you this verbatim. You know that? I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to You know, you don't want to miss words. I don't want to miss words and say because it is verbatim. Matter of fact, like I said, it was 2018. I was doing commentating for Fox,

and I would go up there like maybe once or twice a month and be there for like two, three days. They go on all the shows, you know, do the commentating. They'd ask me, whatever, da-da-da-da-da. So now, this text I get from him. Oh, no. You're there in 2018. Yeah.

So the text I get from him, here's the crazy thing. It's almost three, four weeks after it was said. Okay? It's August 7th, 2018, at 135. Joe, what time do y'all go to practice? Tommy saw probably like two. Mm-hmm, like two, two-thirty, something like that. But this is what's on your mind.

He's watching me on TV. This has gotten to him somehow. Now, here is his text. He says, Wood was a smarter player than you, but I would never say that to anybody but you. I'm not with you for what you say. I'm always with you because of your relationship with the game

and what you were willing to do. Don't act funny. I will always be with you no matter how fucked up you are, L-O-L. Now, my response to him was, quote, If you wanted to tell the world that I would not be upset, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it just like I'm entitled to mine. No disrespect meant by it. It was just my honest answer to a question that was asked. Good luck Thursday.

I'll always be with you, no matter how fucked up you are. 100. Now, you're telling me someone who doesn't listen to the outside noise is texting me that on a Tuesday before he's playing a Thursday game. If it's a Tuesday, look, it could have been a day off. Tuesday was a long day. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I made sure I looked at it.

I made sure I looked at it. It wasn't a day off. Okay. It was a Thursday game. Oh, we had practice on that Tuesday. So, again, my relationship with him is totally different. I can separate. I can separate the,

great coach from the great motivator and see it. Guys that are in that position now, they still have that emotional attachment. And that makes them overshadow when you start looking at pure numbers because coaching is something that is based on numbers and development. And he does not have the ability because he does not have a coaching tree to actually get coaches out and in, end through his toolage.

But that's a great coach. I think, like, why don't you think he would just hire? Do you think he's purposely not higher? I just don't understand he personally, just from that, it lets me know. It lets me know you feel a certain type of way.

Yeah, yeah. He, this is the one thing I thought, I said, I might have said it to you. I said The only way Mike Tom gets out of here is if he wants to leave Yeah

And it was one or two things Okay It was going to be his ego Or it was going to be Um His pride It was going to be his ego

Or his pride Oh why he left Why he would leave or stay Okay Okay His pride is the part that would make him leave He wouldn't be able to take the outside noise he doesn't listen to where he says he doesn't hear. His ego would make him

stay because I don't care what they say. I'm staying. I'll leave when I want to leave. And I think maybe the pride spoke a little loud. Debo, I just say one thing, man, the fact that you have, you can speak on, like you said, the emotional part and people get really in their feelings and get emotionally attached to Coach T. Because like you said, he is a great. speaker. He is a great when they say leader of men, but I could only know from where I came from. And the one thing, too, I can say is when I was in Florida, when I was at Florida, when we didn't win national championships, Urban Meyer was a special teams coach. We had a great defensive coordinator and Charlie Strong. We had a great offensive coordinator and Dan Mullen. So he, like, put off

things to other people that made sure those dudes knew exactly what was going on and you got to kind of give off task and make sure you can't just be the only one running the whole kitchen because it takes a village you know what I'm saying your GM got to be on your same page with you your coaches got be on the same page your ownership has to be kind of following kind of everybody's got to be working together so I'm I'm with you on not being emotional on my part is I don't know all the nuances of what coach T really had the power to do what pull he had what say-so he had so when I'm coming in I'm knowing I'm going to do my job. And if my coach gives me the tools to make sure I can go out there and do what I got

to do to make sure we win, and if we don't win, we see why we didn't. And he gives us the facts and tools and the keys to victory. And if we go do this, we're going to go win these games every week. You know what I'm saying? I'm not going to be ill-prepared. So I hear what you're saying, too, with a great coach, if you're really going to do it, and this is kind of bringing it to me where you're going to be a great-ha coach, you got have had the GM, right, you got to make sure your offense coordinator, you got to be able to set

people up and put them in positions to where now that's kind of how you build a tree, how a Belichick and how these dudes have dudes that are disciples of them because they kind of taught them, put them in positions, and they kind of got it. That's the part of where I'm always understanding great coach is, what are you telling me to do? Are you making sure I know exactly what to do and when I need to do it to go when? And then coach me up to like, not just bad tape is bad tape. I in the sky, I don't lie, being accountable for everybody, like, showing the stuff, I was with that.

So I can, on that part is why I say, great coach on the other part is where, like, there's a whole lot more where if you're not, if you're in the gym on on the same page, if you're actually the one bringing in the talent, if you're bringing in these quarterbacks, signing these guys, drafting these people, then the, then the buck really does have to stop on you if everything's not performing, if you're not getting the best out, the people that you hand-selected. So I'm with you a thousand percent, Dibault. You kind of giving me a lot of more knowledge where, like, as coaching,

leader of men, making sure I knew what I was doing, great coach. As far as bringing in talent. That, hey, that's what I'm trying to say, Joe. You're saying great coach, leader of men, telling me what I'm supposed to do better. That's a good coach to me. A great coach gets you beyond what your actual level of play is. Like, Dick LeBow, if it wasn't for Dick LeBoe, there is no James Harrison. Dick LeBoe got me to play beyond the potential of what James Harrison was because he was an undrafted,

nobody that would be nothing but a whole life special teams player. Oh. You go to that and you go to Keith Butler, my linebacker coach, the greatest linebacker coach I ever had. Okay? He is the person that developed me, turn me into what I am. me what I am, showed me how to do this job, the nuances of doing it in and out. And I played it in Dick LaBow's defense, okay? And that was tailor made for me.

The same defense I thought was so hard and difficult for me to learn. Once I actually sat down, became a truth professional, understood what I needed to do and learned it and put it on tape. It was easy for me to go out there and play and excel in it because those were two great people that were in it. Yeah, I won a title under Tomlin. Yes, I give him that. Good coach.

Good coach. He did the things necessary to keep the people in place because that's what was there. It would be foolish to let those people go. Okay? And also something, when we were sitting there at the game, what the Ham say? 95 is a good player, right?

He said he's a good player. I looked it up, bro. 95 is a good player. 95 is a good player. As much as I said he's not, but you know why he's not a good player? because they're playing him out of position. You're telling me a great coach takes an athlete like that

that could be great and puts him in a position to not excel? What position we need to put him at, though? He needs to be on the end. Okay. He needs to be on the end. He's a rush end, dude. All right. He actually got, dude, like for real.

Is it because he too late? He's quick, but he's too light? Dude. Here's a funny thing. Before T.J. moved to the left. Peezy was the lineback. I say Peezy. Yes.

I know y'all ain't going to do nothing with me and let me play on the right, but move T.J. to the left, I would see every time in practice, when T.J. got to practice rushing on the left, he had that move. Can't nobody stop? I'm like, just moving to the left. Like, just moving to the left. They thinking I want to, I want to get in there and play.

I know y'all not going to play. You already know that. Why don't you move to the left automatically? He could get that. They don't do it. T.J. finally was like, yo, in one of the off season, I want to move to the left. move to the left boom gone

gone should have moved on to the left quicker should have moved into the left quicker quicker like we're at a point right now where we got to a point

where when Cowher was there Cowher drafted talent for the position that was needed to get the job done at that position. I think around that 13-15 time frame,

Coach Tomlin got into drafting athletes, numbers, speed, all that, and not getting players that could do the skill needed at the position, which in 13 led to Dick LeBow's defense dropping in 13 and 14, and then them not renewing him because now you have him at a, I think it was a 13 and 13 and 18 and 14. And now you can say, you know what? His defense don't work.

That was the call. His defense don't work no more. It just don't work. That's not true. His defense works. It was younger and younger players starting. Dick LeBoe's defense, he don't start rookies.

It's only been one rookie before 2013 that started in a Dick Labo defense, and that was Kendra Bell. And we ran, I don't even know if y'all ran this, we ran Gap, Mac, we ran Mac games. So we ran Mac Mac games. So it was either Gap, Mac, knife, sword, gun, switch, whatever it was.

So it was, me telling him exactly. Exactly. You don't even know what I'm talking about. You got there in 17. That's why you think he's right and I'm wrong. And we have a difference of opinion. That told the Mac backer to hit gaps A through B, I mean, A through D over here or A through D over here. Why? Because I don't want him thinking I need to get him to where he knows where he's going.

Because in that defense, you didn't play in the pure Dick LeBow Fire Zone defense. And when I got there and in 14, I was like, yo, why were we talking? changing this. When I unretired and came back, I'm like, some things are changing. And it's like, yo, we had to change some things so players didn't have to think so much and they could be able to play now. Now, when you do that in the dickler, both defense and you take that away, what happens. You're dumbing it down. Yes, you're dumbing it down and you take away two or three other defenses that look the same as that one defense, but it's doing something totally different.

And that's why when rookie quarterbacks see a Diclobo defense, a true Diclobo defense, they are talking about their seeing ghosts. Why? Because you're looking at the same thing, the same lineup, the same look. And it's four different ways those people can come. But now you had to take that one out. So now it's no teeth to the other one because you didn't get the player that needed to play the position to do what was necessary.

As an inside linebacker in our job, You got to come downhill. Bang a dude and get off of him. As an outside linebacker, you have to dominate the tight end. A tight end should never block you one-on-one. And you have to be able to get out in coverage to a curl flat. You have to be able to go seem.

Sometimes you got to run down with the number two. All that got taken away. Mm-hmm. So you see what I'm saying? I have different parameters than you does. But my perspective and your perspective are two different things, dude. I feel you, I hear you, but I'm just telling you what I know from being the cornerback and getting coached up. It just, I feel like if the dude...

Dude, if you, if you could have played in Dick LaBoe system, I guarantee you your numbers would have jumped by three. But the thing is, the cornerback, it was easy, though, Debo. I think I'm, the thing is, there's nuances and stuff that we didn't get. But I don't think some people are just like not smart enough to get. defenses sometimes. Some things are a little bit confusing. I think I think my mind kind of works pretty good. But that's the big draw. Like it's easy. Even the offenses that are facing us saying, oh, this is easy. We know what they're going to do. Why? Because you had to dumb it down so much because you're trying to make guys playing out. Like you have to have some complication to your

defense. You have to be a lot. Like he said, we plan chess, not checkers, right? Yes. No, no, no, no. But guess what? We play a tic-tac-toe. Because everybody and their mama see it. And we go into a game, like TJ just said this past game, we felt good about the week. We went in. Everything was, you know, it was good. We felt prepared, da, da, da, and what happened? The offense shit down their leg. They're part of the preparation on the other side, right?

Yeah, man. So look, so this is what I'm saying. So what are you expecting? What are you expecting to happen? I'm expecting a great head coach to put people in position. to get coaches that can actually, how many coaches did you learn anything from at distillers when you were there in your tenure?

I learned from. Who gave you nuggets that made you a better player? Who gave you, who increased your knowledge? Who increased your capabilities? Coach Blake. Okay. Coach Lake. Where is Coach Lake?

He was tired. He went to go see his son play. in LA. So what happened after that? No, then it got, yeah. Then it was scrap. He wasn't, he didn't help too much. It was my third one.

You can't remember. That's the problem. No, no. It was good, man, my third one was a good. We had a good DB coach. I telling him it was. I was just brain fires. Good?

Yeah, man. Yeah. But it was, I promise you. I promise you, but I only had one bad DB coach there. So good. equates to a great coach hiring. No. But I already told you.

I'm saying you want to say great, great guy to come with a lot of great men. I already told you a thousand. I do believe he will get into the hall just because of the numbers. Do I believe he should be in there? No. Wow. This coach is a habit.

So. The same reason I don't believe I should be in there. My numbers aren't what they are. I've said it multiple times. I've said that so many times it's ridiculous. Even though we played in the defense where we dropped. damn near 50% of the time. And any time you got a pass rush, it may not be a pure rush.

It could be a run. So you may get maybe eight to 10 pure pass rushes in the game if you're lucky. And that was if Coach LeBowell decided that, hey, we're not going to rush our outside, guys. We need you guys to head up the tight end and just whip his ass, two gaping and dominating the run game. And we'll pick everything else up with the corners coming in. Uh-huh. No, you don't get in there. though. You're going to get in that bit, Debo. That's for sure. I respectfully, here what you're

saying. I love that. I'm going to tell you right now, you don't understand. I don't understand. I don't care if I get in. I didn't even, I didn't even, I didn't actually care about making my daddy proud, bro. And I did that. I don't think they understand. Right now, think about this. Think about this. A. B. A. A. A. B should be first ballot hall of same. A thousand percent. You think you go get first ballot hall of same. You know, okay, they get their chance to make that, to make that thing to where they can do whatever they want to do. It is not purely numbers-based. And that is why I'm telling you, Tomlin, we'll get in because I don't think he should get in, because guys are saying the things. He's going to get in for show. Yes. You're going to get in for show.

I can hear what you saying. You, I, you get me. Just like it was his decision to leave or not, it's going to be the same thing. Uh-huh. No question. He's going to be able to do what he wants, though. Oh, yeah. Hey.

What's up? Hardball. Giants. The brows ain't getting it. Nah. Man. It's all good. It's all good.

Hey, Joe. It's all good. Hey, Joe. Yeah. It's all good. Who you, who you hope? Who you hoping for now, Joe? Man, bro.

After that, after that, that one flustered me because I put all my eggs in one back. I ain't even going to lie to. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, right now I'm just waiting to see what they, Mr. Haslam. Well, he's looking to come up with him and Mr. Berry, see what they're looking for. So, no, I'm just here. I'm just waiting.

I'm just waiting. I'm just hoping them praying. I'm hoping something good happens. I'm going to let them do it because you know what? No, let them, because look, we heard about that. What the steel is going to do, though, with the coach? Because, like you said, you want a great coach? You want a great coach, obviously.

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Only had three. This is the thing. This is the thing. How much wiggle room are y'all? How much wriggle room are you giving the coach? I'm 100% ready. And no, we're going to be in a basement if we're trying to rebuild this. And I think we need to rebuild this.

I don't know if Stiller fans can handle that. That's what I want to say. I don't care. If I'm the person making a decision, I don't care. This is what's going to have to happen. Just like it happened over there with the Patriots. Look where they're at right now. Look where they're at right now.

You've got to go to the basement to get back up unless you go give up everything that you have to find a quarterback that is out there right now and get him. We're going to be in the basement. And this draft is not it. I don't know if the next draft is it. We're going to be in the basement to be able. We're going to have to be in the basement to be able to draft a

quarterback. That can be a franchise quarterback. Okay. We're going to be in a, I understand that. And we're going to have to draft far better than we have been doing the last 10, 15 years. Yep. I'm ready for the, I'm ready to accept. Are you ready for a person that can get that done?

I'm willing to accept. I'm willing to accept. Because, because this is what I'm saying. Your coach, when I'm telling you, being in a new. the basement. Do we need to see something? Because the Steelers, they ain't had to really be dealing with another different head coach. So I'm saying, how long are you giving him to look terrible in the basement? Because we're going to have Will Howard. We're still going to obviously try to play and see what's up. So you mean? So you're telling me that we could take Will

Howard and put him in there. Let's stop all this. Aaron Rogers save this team. That is a great decision that might be by getting Aaron Rogers. I will say that. I don't know why you're at. Because without him, what are you talking about? It would have been looking, no, for show. It would have been his first losing season ever if Aaron Roger wasn't there. Look at the games he won.

Look how he won them. Look how our defense played in him. And look how we had to win him. You're telling me that this still would be a 10 to 17 with Aaron Rogers not there. No. No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that we obviously. are going to go need to get a quarterback.

If Will is going to be the one that's going to be playing. We need to get a vet, obviously. If we lose, lose, we're going to get hopefully a high pick where we get Caleb Williams like the Bears did or Drake May for number three. You know what I'm saying? Like the Patriots did. So you're obviously going to have to lose. But I'm saying with the coach-wise, giving them a little bit of leeway because

I'm giving him leeway. I ain't signing it to know a less than a five-year deal. I'm loving the way to the, I'm loving though. I think Robert Kraft, I mean, Robert Craft, the way that he did it with New England, he put Mayo in there for a year, fired him, and then we're still able to get, what's my man right now that's at the Patriots?

The one that we, that I wish we could get, but he's not going nowhere. Oh, no, he ain't leaving there. Because from tennis, yes, yes, yes. So we got to get a great. Braybo, we got to get a great coach, that's you saying,

that's going to be able to bring offensive and defensive coordinators because the still is definitely. And I'm not, listen, I'm not saying he has to be, a great coach right now, but I need to have the potential of being able to grow into that. You've seen something in him from year, whatever it is to year whatever.

And he can grow. And on top of that, I want to know that he can put a staff in place. I want to know that he's not going to be somebody that feels like he can't put somebody at XYZ because it may take attention away from him. So let me tell you this. All right, let me go.

This is a question I really wanted to know. Since you're talking about we're going to have to be trash for a little bit and everything, are we still saying with these same players? Are you trying to, are you trying to dump? Are you trying to get rid of contracts? Are you trying to look and see what's going on? I'm dumping for sure. Okay, all right.

I'm going to have to. Because that's what you're going to have to do. If you're talking about it, it's bread out there and it's young, and you can try to really go reset and re-re-if. If you really try and re-figure it out, then I'm here. Yeah, I got it. Okay. That's just to say it.

I mean, I hate to say it, but I'm getting rid of older, expensive talent. Got to. Okay. I mean, what you're saying? I have to. I got to start younger. I got to start younger because I need to be able to be able to grow with this. I got to teach them.

I got to bring them in. And to be honest, I don't just as, you know, I don't want to deal with the past, you know, of whatever they may expect from me because of what their dealings were with Tom. So. I'm cleaning. I'm cleaning house. I have to. I'm sorry, but I have to. I got to start off fresh. And I, and look at, look at Rable. Dude, he, he, he let go and signed so many people. I think it was like 20-something dudes in his first week, two weeks there. Before that, he went and got the coaches. He got the coaches. I need the coaches that I need. Like, he, he put together, he get, he get an all-star coaching

style. He got, he got that together. And I need guys to be there that. when the players see them or hear their name or whatever that may be, it's automatic buy-in. Yeah. My DB coach is Joe Hayton. Come on. Automatic buying, right? Yes.

Okay. I'm coaching them up. Now, I got, you know, I got my DB coach is blah, blah, blah, blah, that I brought up from the scouting department and now he's my DB coach. Huh? No accountability. No credibility. None.

So now when he tells, like, you can't even relate the game to me. Like, it's something that's not going on that's not being translated when I'm seeing every corner, every DB, except for a few when they get beat. First thing they do is look back. Ain't nobody grab, like, stop. That's when Debo, we're going to have that. That's what you got to. Literally, it's eyes. It's straight eyes in the middle room.

We're doing that the whole time. And if you're doing that and practice, you're not going to get in the game. No. That's what you're going to do. You're going to do. Right. If you practice it, you're doing that. Stop looking back crazy.

I'm having dudes boxing gloves. I'm treating them like. kids until you get that credibility the way, okay, you're showing me, you know how to play. Okay, I might give you a little, dude. Again, that's what you did, dude. And that was the one thing.

Coward, you earned what it was. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. I don't give them if you was a first rounder or a fifth rounder. You earned everything. And when it came time around that, like I said, that 13, 14 timeframe, bro, guys were giving it. Hey, you're my first rounder. You're my first rounder.

You're my first rounder here, here. guys go ahead get out there we don't fix whatever it is we need to adjust so you can play no see i ain't gonna lie to you coming out of that bellichick i had eric man gini and i was the first round pick and he did not give me nothing i didn't start until game week six i was special teams four-phase guy working my ass learning like and that's grinding showing me i'm like this i'm gonna show you i deserve it i get in that thing after the sixth game of the season i never come back out but you got You're not just Joe, you're Joe Hayden, first round pick,

here you go. No. We don't care about none of that. Because unless you, Sheldon Brown, Eric Wright, no, niggins. That's college. That's college.

You did that in college. Yeah. You should have to show me. You got to show me something here. Mm-hmm. I went down. You're not about to just hand this to you. Mm-mm.

They're talking about the head coaching job for Pittsburgh. They got it ranked as a third. They got Ravens 1, Falcons, too. You agree with that, man? You think Baltimore in Atlanta is more desirable than Pittsburgh? I think only Baltimore. Or maybe only Baltimore. one right now just because they got Lamar, just because they got Lamar.

You're being real, real, real disrespectful right now. Brother, brother, brother. Brother, brother. In my opinion, I mean, look, we don't got no coach either. So, I mean, we're trying to. That's what it is for the head coaching job. When you want to be able to come in there and say, I can pick my coach, I can pick my quarterback, I can do what I want to, and I'm not stuck saying that I need to have, you got to keep the OC because that is a defense or a, all right,

offense that is ran totally different than what the regular offenses are ran in the NFL. Because you will have a quarterback that is a running back and a quarterback. Now you're cutting yourself down to have to pick a backup that is something like him or exactly like him. Man, look, look, me, I'm not turning down. I mean, Lamar, it's still Lamar Jackson. And if you think you come with it. And if that's your type of offense that, you know what I'm saying? You are the type of offense that runs that.

this type of head coach that likes the RPO's, that likes to do that, and you're a big defensive guy too. So I think there could be a fit where that coach could be like, hey, I do have Lamar Jackson, but at the same time, I'm with you two at Pittsburgh where I can pick whatever quarterback I do want. We don't really have one there. Like, go talk to him what leadership role? What ability do I have to bring in whoever I want?

Okay. But I'm going, I'm still thinking the Steelers job is now. You're going to still at first. I don't agree with that. I'm going to steal at first. I got to put it in my, I got to put in my request for interviewing and all that. So when I do that and everything, I'll let you know how to process go.

Please do, bro. I'm trying to tell you. Like I said, listen, I'm going to make my job so easy, man, I'm going to hire the coldest position coaches and coordinators around. I want to make my job as easy as possible as a head coach. I do not care who gets the credit because at the end, I'm going to get the credit because I hired them and pulled it.

Or show. Okay? For a show. Debo, I understand. I don't, listen, I do not want teachers. I want professors of the game. You understand what I'm saying? I like that.

Yes. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm not promoting from within. That's going to look. No. Unless you don't show me something.

I'm going to pluck somebody from the best thing. I'm going to pluck them out the sky. You come on over here. You come. Thank you. Come on over here. Dude. Hey, what you've been about a college?

What do you think about a college? What about that college football coach, bro? Indiana. Now, I'm talking about Indiana, too. Indiana? Oh, yeah, Indiana. He's from Penn. He's from PA.

And he's from PA. Hey, but you have to be able to get him to leave. He already said he ain't leaving. And that man, I sound like he a man of his word right now. You know what I'm saying? He sounds like he a person that has a conviction. Yeah, yeah. I hope so.

He do what he say he's going to do. You know, he makes his players hold his players accountable. I tell you one thing, and that's what I'm talking about. He's a, he looked like he's no, he's not bullied. I like him. Hey, listen, we go give it a shot. This could be one of those chances where we go on head, talk to him. Hey, do what you got to do to get him to at least come on through doing an interview.

Yeah. Listen, you could be the next 25, 30-year coach here. I like what he doing over there in Indiana now. I love what he's doing over there. I like what he doing over there. Like, hey, he came from the basement, too. He's going to make everybody enter it. That's why he make them earning.

Yep. That's why he make them earning. Look here, man, we got a playoff game, too. We got the Bears over there with the Rams, the playoff game. Brug, they said it's supposed to be the coldest game in recent history, Joe. Hey, we got a video, man. Look at the blizzard conditions right now in Lake Michigan, baby. See, that's what I'm telling you.

I'm leaning in Chicago. Hey, hey. Boy, and my man Matthew Stafford hurt his little finger, too. It's going to be cold. His finger's going to be tingling. Bro, they are not looking good in cold weather, dude. You're talking about what they say, zero to negative 10 wind chill, something like that?

Let me check. Man, bro, that's- 0 to negative 10. I'm cold. 20 miles an hour, Gus. And they said the Rams, I ain't played a game below 50 all season. one in eight

54% completion for Stafford 1 and 8 record 14 touchdowns 11 interceptions brother dang yeah man that's why I look and it's cold dirt it looks freezing out there

and my man hit his his pointer finger of his throwing hand it's going to be 10th that might help him because this is going to be numb man Debo I'm not you need all the time

you can get it I'm not rocking with that hey man what's the coldest weather game you ever played it. I know what mine is. I think it was against y'all. Man, I know I played in Cleveland like negative three. Brough, it was the game. I want to say it was like 2008 or something in Cleveland, bro. It was like wind, hell, snow, just freezing off the lake, bro. And everybody out there, they're talking about, man, it's so cold, man. It's cold as this, is that, man. And I'm like,

man, y'all, shut up. You know, nick, stuff around here. I've been here. I live here, bro. This ain't nothing, man. bro, when I say I stepped out that tunnel, and the tingleys, it felt like real-life needles. Yes. Sticking through my arm, bro. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. We had a, you get fined.

$1,000, you wear sleeves. Yeah, wear sleeves. Brun, if it wasn't for me talking so reckless and crazy, I almost turned around immediately and went back into the locker room. Oh, for sure. You had, no, no, no, you couldn't. I didn't. I couldn't.

I couldn't, bro. That is the only game. We lost. We lost, y'all. We lost, bro. Yeah. And I did not give a fiddle fattel. I wanted to get off that field because even at halftime, bro, you know how you get in there at halftime?

And when you're hot, you feel the heat coming off your body. I felt the ice rising. I felt cold like I was in a freezer from the coldness rising off my body. Yeah. Yeah, that's that, that's that weather. It's no joke. I can't stand the cold. So we just be out there, but you better get a three and out

so I can get over to that heated bench. Please. Listen, bro, we was going over there on timeouts. Yeah, no, for sure. 30-second timeouts, Joe. I ain't never did that day in my life, bro. I'm waiting, bro. I'm looking at, Debo, I was doing that the whole time,

waiting for looking at the wrath. Wait for him to blow the whistle. As soon as you come out there, hey, we got TV or not? We got TV. I ain't about to leave this to this. We got TV or not. We're rolling or what we got?

We this or that? The man on the field with the gloves or not? Yes. If you're on the field with the gloves, I'm on the sideline. Yeah, yeah. You know what time it is? Play a fay. Let's see it, brother.

All right, Joe, you know how it work. You play it or you faded. Now, I got Josh Allen over here in Buffalo. I got more on rushing. I already know that he go do what he got to do. He goes scramble, get loose on that thing. He got to do. He got to do.

He got to do. He got to do. He got a gun slinger. He, you know, and on top of that, like last week, when the tight end didn't relate and come down on that route. Yes. I think he'll have some issues where, you know, where that may happen. CJ, I'm going to say he'll have more on rushing. The reason I say he's going to have more on rushing is I believe they,

probably told him you cannot turn the ball over. If you don't do anything else, take off. Do not turn the ball. Do not, do not turn the ball over. I don't care if you get sacked. Do not throw the ball into a ill-advised situation. That is the only way that they're going to have a chance to be able to beat New England in New England.

Now, and the other one, we just talked about that. Oh, that is obvious. Less. Less. Less. Less. What you go do, Joe? I'm going, I'm going to play this.

I'm going to play this. And I'm going to just be watching because once the first, once my man, if C.J. Strout, my good man gets over 10 and a half, this joint is good as good as one. We good as one. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Watching that Stroud after that, man, is we getting the books. Listen, your boy Joe go play with your boy to put out there.

Let's make sure your guys download the after day and use the code. Deboat Joe. Yes, sir. $50 in lineups after you play your first $5. lineup. All right. Look here. We got some super chats. We got Kenneth Powell, 279. He donated $5. He said, I say they need to hire DeBois head coach. What do you think of that, Joe? I agree wholeheartedly. Because I know what you're going to do. Yeah, because you want a job, right? You know what you don't. I know I would like the cornerback position. You know you in there.

And do you know, I'm a coach them boys all the way up for sure. We're going to be out there. getting all the picks. And then I know you're going to hire our offense of mine that we need to make sure our offense is ran the proper way. Yes. Hey. Yes.

Yes. Yes. What we got here? What is that? Because the ruins don't what? Let me see if it's on here. Stilton 14, donated $10 said,

Tom had got a chance to be in the great coach conversation because the ruins don't fire coaches. any other owner, and he'd been gone by 2020. What do you think of that, Joe? I would say, I think after they won it in 2008, went back to the Super Bowl in 2010,

I think the Steelers, just the fans, you get, you get kind of, you want to be, you want to win every single year. I understand that. I can say 2020, I think it's right about time. Could have been two years, could have been last year, maybe the year before, but right now, I think it's the grateful time for him to gracefully bow out. Like, it is what it is. I think he did, he did it long enough at a great pace where it's not great pace, but just, you know, you were making the playoffs, you were doing good, you won

a Super Bowl, brought you back to another one since 2010. So it's been a minute. So I think it right now is the time that it's time. Yeah, I personally, I don't know about 20, but I think it should have been done. I'm with you. I think it should have been on. a little a little sooner we got diamond four underscore one donated five dollars said i like brian floress for head coach nate what is that shillhaus for oc uh rahin moors for dc trinidad trambleas for taylin green for uh to uh complete to complete to compete to compete to compete to compete with Will for quarterback. I don't know.

I mean, I like, I like, I like, I like Floras, but I like him as a, as a coordinator. As a D.C. Yeah, I like him as a D.C. I'm with you. I know that she's not. Me as the head coach. Yep.

What do you think of Nate as the O.C.? Nate? Sure. Where's Nate at? Who's, where's? Shill House. Shieldhouse. It's shield

It's like shoe But it's too easy So it's the shield house Where is he out of? I don't know That's why I was asking I don't know where no shield house is either Rams

Okay Okay Okay Hey That's what Look For offensive coordinator I want

If you learn from McVey Let's see what McVey I don't know That don't give me that instant It don't give you that instant that's what we need? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I need that instant. As soon as I hear the name, as soon as I think, like, I need that. And I just, you know, we got Mike and Mike. Donated, Mike and Mike Dash 100. Donated 10 bucks.

Said, what's up, D-1 Joe? Does the next Steeler coach last as long as Tomlin did? Or do they have to step down a few seasons if they can get a ring after a few seasons or do they have to step down after a few seasons if they can't get a ring.

Hell no. Listen, I'm trying to tell y'all the next coach, if it's me, I'm giving me five years. I'm giving me time to build up for the first three and then after that, I got to see grave improvements.

That's what I got to, that's what I'm going to do. I'm, I'm rocking with that. But ain't this what you, don't you need to see, like, a legitimate change? You know what I'm saying? The legitimate, like, I need to see the culture change. And, like, I like the way that when the Patriots, they ended up getting rid of Belichick. And then my man, what's my man name?

Jared Mayo. He went out there for a year. And they went four and 13. And he's like, they had Bell Belichick for 20 years. And he quickly was able to fire Mayo because it just wasn't what he was with. And now able to hire the coach they have now. Brable. So it's like, I think the Steelers are going to have to do a really good job of really like,

this is the guy that you're going to be with because they don't really be having to pick the guy too many times. So it's hard to be able to find that guy. Well, yeah, you got to realize it ain't nobody. I don't think it's nobody in that organization right now that actually went through the process of finding Coach T or that was truly involved in it. So that's the part where it's like coaches aren't easy. When you find a man that you really kind of believe in, you got to kind of stick to him.

So I'm respect. I don't know. I think that's a problem that a lot of, like, coaches have, especially with their higher drive choices. They stick with them until it's too late. And they stick with them too long. So they'll just hold on to him, knowing that after year or two, that's not what they want or need.

But instead of letting him go, they'll hold on to him until the contract. And being like, look, they got to be able to say. Instead of saying, hey, I've messed up. I'm messed up. I messed up. I messed up. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. A lot of guys, a lot of guys won't do that.

I mean, some, some, some, some, some guys do. You see guys getting up out of there. You see a first rounder that, you know, after year two, he done went to, you know, two, three other teams. For sure. You know, yeah. So, I mean, but you got to be willing and ready to do that and admit fault. And when that happens.

I don't think we had that. I know we ain't had that. I mean, we held on to guys for, for longer than we, we should have. And we know that because we didn't resign up to long-term deals. We just held on to him because it was there. And, you know, so on and so forth. So, um, South Steelers 36 donated two bucks said,

Debo, are you serious about D.C.? No, I am not serious about D.C. He said, you got my vote. I'm serious about head coach. I ain't coming in there. I ain't coming in there on no bottom. I ain't coming in on the side. I can't be on no side.

I got to be on top because I got to be able to put the people in place to make sure that everything flows smoothly. Your staff is going to be automatic. Your staff has to be sitting there and buying in to what it is you doing and everybody else is doing, we got to be speaking the same language together. I got to be saying the same thing. Nobody can be saying something different.

I know it was times where it was coaches, where they were saying two different things about the same play. You can't have that. You can not have that. That is a recipe for failure. I did it this way or I think you should do it that way. It's the I think you should do it this way,

ones that kill me because you ain't played the game. How are you going to tell me how to do it? you ain't even never went out here and did it. That's why I need a coach that played the position that I played and did it successfully. You know what I'm saying? I think you should do it this way. It's crazy. Like, dude, I just don't, I don't, I don't understand that, dude.

Oh, dude, we had 12-20, coach. Yeah, let's get up out of it. Hey, we want to thank you guys for joining us on this episode of Debo and Joe. Please make sure you like, subscribe, and download where it's possible. This show, baby. Hey, Joe. Yes, sir. I gotta say, Joe.

Say, I will see y'all on Monday on another episode of Debo and Joe. Hey, we're about to watch these games this weekend. We're going to be right back on this thing on Monday, letting y'all know how it go. Y'all know how we break it down, you know what I'm saying. Y'all come, y'all come to here. Y'all, you know what it is. You know what it is. Hey, and we are.

Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanko Wali. And I'm Hurricane de Bolo. It's a new year. And on the podcast, Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone.

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