Nightcap - Deebo & Joe - MNF REACTION: Cardinals DOMINATE Cowboys + Eagles Trade + Dan Quinn on Jayden Daniels!

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

Join NFL Legends James "Deebo" Harrison and Joe Haden as they react to Monday Night Football where Jacoby Brissett goes on the road to beat the Dak Prescott and the Dallas Cowboys, Kevin Stefanski is giving up the play calling duties to the OC, and Dan Quinn takes responsibility for the Jayden Daniels injury and much more! Timeline:00:00 - Introduction5:30 - Cards beat Cowboys29:20 - Kevin Stefanski giving up play calling for Browns34:00 - Bengals HC not happy with Chase Browns’ comments38:00 - Dan Quinn Regrets playing Jayden40:00 - Frankie Luvu Suspended for Hip Drop Tackle48:00 - James tells story of getting their play signals stolen (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Club #Nightcap See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. How you doing today, Joe? Let me tell you something, Debo. Debo, it's my time real quick. Welcome back to Debo and Joe. I'm your host, James Debo Harrison, and I'm here with my co-host, Joe Hayden. Please make sure.

sure you guys like and subscribe you don't want to miss nothing how you doing the day joe doing good brother dbo doing good caught a little game you know monday night football you know it's never as good though when our stillers are playing or my browns are playing you know what i'm saying so it was a good game always good to watch football but you know i'm saying it's never just that as excited no it's not it's a totally different feel but i ended up going to the store bro, like right before the game and I had to pick up something and I'm going through the aisle and I see

these hats, bruh. And when I see these hats, I'm like, you know what? That, when you said the Browns, your Browns, it made me, it made me realize that I had this hat for you. So, it's your Christmas present. Okay? Early Christmas present. Debo.

When's your birthday? My birthday is April 14th. Okay. Now, look here. This is the early Christmas present. I need you to close your eyes, though, okay? And I'm bringing it out, and I'm going to show you it, okay. You all right, okay, here you go. Okay, hold up.

Hold up. Debo, don't be messed up. No, Joe, this right here, open your eyes. It's a hat for you. You can wear it twice a year. I just hope both teams have. Come on. You can wear it twice a year.

Debo, I'm not going to lie to you, brother. That was very, very nice of you. Thank you. I appreciate that. I like that. Like I said, as soon as I saw it, I'm like, you know what? I know who this is. And I was thinking, I was looking for, like, Joe,

like your brand on the back of it, like something like that. But it wasn't. But, you know. Debo. Thank you, Debo. Amen. Thank you. I didn't know.

I honestly didn't know what to expect. I don't know where that was going to go. Hey. Thank you, Debo. I appreciate you. You are very, you're very welcome, man. Joe just hopes both teams, you know. And it matches what you got on, bro.

Like, you got to wear it. Yes. It was meant to be, man. Sometimes I put things. Thank you, Devo. That was meant to be, man. That was meant to be, man. Devo, you know what?

Debo, I appreciate you. Honestly, that was very nice to me, brother. That was nice to thank you. I didn't know, Rebo, I didn't know what to expect. Yeah, for sure. Let's get into this, man. Cardinals went on head and jumped on a cowboy's 27 to 10, man. That first suggestion, though, Dallas came out of there firing on all cylinders.

They had a run and nine on the first one, and the next one was eight. Then they hit Pickings for 16, CD for, 15, Williams, the running back. He went on head, popped 11, but AZ was able to get it together. They got him to that fourth and four. They get a sack on that. That's no points.

You drove the ball all that time, did your thing. No points. That's just, yeah, you got to get. Turnover on downs, man. And then they come right out there, Arizona. So Kobe Brissette, that in name? Listen, they went on three third downs, man. Third and long, like they weren't making those short ones.

He hit Harrison on the third down for 18. The next third down, it was third and 10. He hit Harrison again for 15. And then on the other third down, that was a longer one. They got a holding call on that that ended up giving them a first down. But they find the way to stall it out. Dallas find a way to get a little bit. get a little bit of stops here and there

and they go for four to field goal and they scores, it's three nothing. I thought that could have went a lot worse. Yeah. Now, they was putting them dudes in a lot of man to man, and Harrison was cooking. Why was dude playing off so far if you were, man? Well, he was scared to just get beat deep.

And that's just not a good. You got to be able to play a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Like, he didn't want to get beat up top. He wasn't trying to get beat on the favor. ball, so that's why he was playing so soft, but you got to, you got to just slow down, read three, like slow, like slow bail out of there, but he was obviously scared to get beat by that fade ball 1,000 percent.

He was like, everything's going to get caught in front of me, but they're going to march that. They're going to keep taking that 11, that 15. Like, you got to stand up. You got at some point, like, press them up, put some hands on. Put some pressure on him or something. Dallas come out there. They moved a little bit, but they get to that third down, and he hits CD for 14. They get it, but they get a penalty that.

takes it away, ends up putting them behind the change. They, they punt the ball back to Arizona. Arizona comes out, I believe, wasn't that when he got, he got, he got sacked on that second down. Yeah, he got sacked on the second down. They put him to like a third and 14, 15, and boy, who he hit. He hit Harrison again. You know is that Marvin Harrison Jr.? He was cooking out there.

They was getting the ball to him. he was throwing it on time he was throwing it right on time to him like right where he needed to go getting through it going through his rushes he was doing it the next nap the running back i think he punched him off about 15 16 and then uh that was the four-yard touchdown to uh harrison junior from beset to go ahead and capitalize on that that's you saw that route that walk off that he had he had he had he had he was he from borset to go ahead and capitalize on that that that's you saw that route that walk off. He had him stepping in the air, moonwalking.

Bro, his foot, yeah, that thing got to slip out. That's a tough position to be in. But you got to, like, you got to put some hands on him. That was a crazy release, though. He had my dude looking wild. So I see him on the sideline, like. And you know, but, and I, and that's a real reaction like this. God, he sat my man down.

You know how that is. Hey, yeah, I'm telling you. I don't, I don't been sat down plenty of times trying to jam that number two. You know what I'm saying? Come on, man. You're out there. You know, y'all ain't supposed to have me out here on this slide. I'm looking back.

Hey. It gets tricky out there. It gets tricky out there. See me over here. You see me over here. You better lean this way, buddy. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

I'm telling you, that DB spot, that's the one thing. You're on the island. Everything is maximized. They're going to see your plays. They're going to see when you get beat like because you out there on the island. No question, dude. Dallas, go ahead and get back out there. They move the ball down.

They get, I believe, it was like, to the area. Arizona, I think it was 42. They had a third in like 15, 16, something like that. And that dude Wilson, man, he causes a fumble on that day. Who the baker recovers that thing? Mm-hmm. That, I mean, there was early turnovers for Dallas, too, bro. Like, you can't be, that's not, you're not going.

That's not winning football, especially when your defense isn't that good. Yeah, trash. Let's be honest, you know what I'm saying? Arizona gets the ballback, but they end up get sacked on that. second down, put them behind the chains. They go to punt, bro. How slow was that punter moving? Dude, he was moving at that pace all game.

They need to either tell him to cut down his steps or speed up his process. Somebody. Because he kicked the ball. His foot almost hit buddy in his face mask. He didn't even have to extend his hands. That drawing almost concussed my man. He kicked the ball right right to his face.

They recovered the ball touchdown. it's 7-10, but Arizona gets the rock back and they come out there and they answer a little bit. They answer a little bit. You know what I'm saying? They answered a lot. A lot. A lot.

They drove out and went six or seven on that one. And ran it in for the touchdown at the end with the sneak. 17-7. They don't scratched off that little touchdown they got. I mean, it's still board of course. But when your offense can go back out there and put up an answer like that, it'd give you a lot of confidence as a defense to be able to come back out there. Especially when you, like, you couldn't even do nothing out there to try and stop it.

You're not even on the field, dude. Those are worst touchdowns, man. Trust. At the same time, like, Dallas didn't score any offensive touchdowns in the first half. So I know Arizona's defense is feeling good. Like, they feel bad because they didn't even, the points that were on the board wasn't, their fault. You know what I'm saying? Like nothing they did about that. So in their minds, they still get, they still got a donut. Yeah. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Dallas gone ahead.

They get down there. Dude tries for a 68-yard field goal, but he misses. I ain't going to lie to you, bro. I'm like, yo, he's about to make this. Like, the record ain't. He's going to go on. And he bought to make this. He bought the crunch. That was the one dude that I thought that we were talking about we going to see a 70-yarder. I was thinking the Dallas kicker. That was the first person where you was like, you think we're going to see it. I think the Dallas dude could do it. But he missed the 68. Hopefully he'd get another chance.

But I thought he was going to be able to smack that. He had to listen. He just was off. He was just off. Yeah. It looked like he had the distance. He was just off. So halftime, it's 17.

Arizona gets the ball in the third quarter, dude. Three plays, bro. 74 yards for a tutty. What? What? Defense. Defense, Dallas is defense. Fifth, like.

And then 12 for the touchdown to McBride. That's how they're nice. I ain't alive, bro. Yeah, bro. That man, he ran the smoothest corner route. That was just, you know, I can see the corner kind of lost to leverage a little bit. He told me he when he pushed off. I'm like, man, he swum you by so nice.

Yeah. Like, that was not a push off. That's a touchdown. Yeah, that, yeah. I was, when I saw it, I'm like, maybe he did push him off because he was so open. And I'm like, it ain't a break. Man. No, I look.

That man, that man swam you by. Yeah, seven to 24 now, man. Dallas gets the ball back. They get to, I believe, it was like the Arizona, like three, four, five, something like that, bro. They get sacked on that second down. And then they end up going ahead and have to take the field goal. It's 10. It's 10 to what, 24 about that?

10 to 24 then. Yep. 10 24. Yeah. Arizona, they go on head, get it back. They put together, I think, was about a five little under, over a five-minute drive, get stalled out at the Dallas, 15, 16, something like that.

They get a field goal. They're still up by 17. It's 27 to 10. So it's within touch. It's within play. And then Dallas, they get to the Arizona 20-yard line, I believe it was. And on fourth down, they're going for it again, bro.

Like right there, they go six points. Like, it could have been at least three right here, six altogether. Y'all don't make it. Turn over on downs. It's still 27 to 10. But defense actually holds up this time. Yeah, they go and get a three and out. And then Dallas come out there, bro.

Seven plays. 80 yards and just over what under or over two minutes I can't remember yep like

I think right about a touchdown now is you know it's 2717 it's a game and dude when you start playing that that soft type

of like prevent type defense dude I don't I don't like that like keep everything in front of you and I hate that man that'd be killing people with that that get a whole bunch of yards from that dude

oh no for sure Sure. For sure. Those are those trash yards at the end of the game that don't matter. They're still padding the stats. Well, he ain't padding here, but he was still trying to win it because they still had an opportunity. But I'm saying, like, as a defense, I'm like, yo, man, I'm going to keep doing what I was doing that got me where we're at. A thousand percent. When I'm saying patent, when I'm saying patent stats, I'm saying this is when they're able to get yards. You're not getting that real. But they're not really getting that against you. You know what I'm saying?

Yep. And then, you know, Arizona go out there. They get sacked on a second down at the second down at the. they scored so it's 27 to 17 they get sacked on second down get a false start on third down they end up having a punt the ball dude Dallas gets the rock and Pete Gang

Pickens he goes with just seven minutes left he gets the first down on that second fight he gets six and this is one of the reasons why the still is this is what you're talking about the maturity

we go go ahead and see what we can do where we can get because we're worried about the maturity. And this is a situation where he goes, he turns the DB, pointing the ball, handing the ball, whatever he's doing. He gets a 15-yard on sportsman. Like, later on, that ends up getting set.

That end up, yeah, that gets ahead. But I know what you're saying. Arizona forces a fumble and recovers it. Like, I just, I don't understand what, you know, what he's thinking there. Like, they, especially with you, they're looking for it, bro. No, for sure.

And they emphasized that. They emphasize that. You're not going to be standing over people. You're not going to be looking at people, pointing the ball at people. You're going to get a 15-yard penalty for that. Like, that's this unsportsmanlike conduct. That's the emphasis. You know they over-emphasizing that.

And then you, Pickens, you know, they're looking at you because you, you're the YB. You're the young boys. So they're expecting you to do some wild stuff. So I'm glad that got the first down. You got to grow up with that. Just you know what I'm saying? Don't do that, George. Don't do it.

Don't, yeah, don't put yourself in positions to deal with, deal with things like that. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Like I said, the team trying to come back. Was that Williams that fumbled again or was that somebody else? Or was that the type? Who was that? I think it was it?

It was either Ferguson or was it, Ferguson or the first was, I think it was Williams. Okay, so they fumbled the rock. Whoever was, he fumbled a rock, Arizona recovered. All right. So Arizona got the ball back with, I think, just what, over, under four minutes left. And they go for it. on fourth and eight. Like, I understand you're going for it.

And Marvin Hillson was wide open. Like, if he could have got it to him, that would have been great. But for me, I'd have been like, yeah, let me go ahead and try and pin this thing and, you know, give my defense a long field. So they got a long, you know, they got a long way to go.

No, I feel you're playing the field position game because your defense, they haven't been playing well, this whole thing, creating turnovers. They haven't been able to show them that they could drive it, but they're going to be able to get some, happen so i'm with you on that yeah so they end up turning the ball over on downs and uh Dallas gets the ball back it really ain't that much time left it's kind of over with you two scores down but he end up getting sacked on that third down and then on that fourth and 30 whatever

it was you know he's just throwing it up to try and get it out there because if you get sacked that's it and he gets the interception game over with they go kneel on it at the end And that's it, dude, Dallas, Dallas got some issues, man. Dallas defense is just, just bad, man. It's, it's trash, bro. Like, the first, like, you just totally lost, like, the first half, like, on them third downs. First half, they was connecting on them boys.

What was it? Seven and nine on third down. And you're not talking about, like, short third downs, dude. You're talking about the third and ten, third and fourteen, you know. And set when I was, you know. there and he did his thing. He'd been doing this thing. To be honest with you, the last few weeks, he'd been in there. You know, he's 21

or 31. He got one, what, 261, two tugs and ran one in, too. And Marvin Harrison, they finally got this man to ball. Marvin Harrison, Jr., they finally got this man to ball. He almost got a hundred. He should got a hundred if they got that ball to him. He was

seven for 96. Like, it could have been more than that. Like, this is, you know, this is the biggest performance so far of his professional career. But he's looking more like, you know, the guy that we saw at O State, you know. And Arizona's defense, they was just out there forcing fumbles everywhere. Yes. I think they forced four.

They only recovered two of them. Yep, because the one, they strip, they rough pickings, too. But the running back was running down there, was able to jump on it and recover. But he definitely, they forced a lot of fumbles. Yeah, and, you know, they're getting those fumbles at points where, you know, it's swinging the game. It's changing momentum, you know. And Dallas, hell, you add that to the fact that they was bad in the red zone. Well, in part because Arizona was doing so well.

Dead. I see, you know, I see why Jerry was like, you know, before the game, you're talking about, yeah, we got, you know, we got some trades going, you know, and blah, blah, blah. After that game, you know what Jerry said. Jerry said, hey, hey, before the game, we thought we was going to win. Now, after the game, and they lost, he said, hey, I ain't about to waste no more money. I ain't about to waste no more money, and we ain't got no chance of making no more money. I ain't going to waste no more money. Hey, I'm a business man, okay?

I'm Jerry Jones. Jerry Jones don't care about winning no Super Bowl. Jerry Jones care about getting that money. Okay, making that money. And like he said himself, staying relevant. If he stayed relevant, stand in the news, whether there's good news or bad news, any news is good news to him.

And he's feeling like, hey, he's making it out. That keep the fans like, yeah, you know, hey, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Keep y'all spending that money. You're a business man, first and four hours. That's it. So this is what I'm saying, D'Bow, I'm with you a thousand percent.

The first things first, and it's the money. I don't think that he doesn't care if the Dallas Cowboys don't win, but that's not that priority. You know what I'm saying? It's not like he's like, I don't give a damn about what the Cowboys doing. He wants them to win. He wants them to be relevant. He wants them to continue to make money.

And if they can win in the process, he's definitely down for it. He doesn't want them to lose, I don't think. But he wants them to make money. He wants them to be relevant. What do you think? What if they started winning, win the Super Bowls, but it did the opposite to his money. It actually declined it. But that, that, that makes it.

saying. I don't think it's possible. Would you think he would take the money over the success? That's a, that's a crazy question. What do you think he would take the money over the success? Joe, Joe, Joe, I asked you what you think. I think he might take the money over the success. I'm just checking the money. I'm just checking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm with you. We're on the same page with that, Debo. I think the money over the success. Money's the main priority. Money's number one. Yes. Money over everything. Is me, but jerse. Dude, he said that. He said that. He said, they already he's been saying it for the last but the thing that I like but but but I don't

like to know but I won't knock him all the way because he doesn't not give he does have a quarterback a franchise quarterback I don't think that's the reason they're averaging 29 points the game you know what I'm saying their off their offense is the fourth fourth in points first and passing second and total offense and even his 13th

for Russia so it's not like they're terrible the defense is terrible definitely that's half the team the defense is a halfway terrible team yes yes yes because When they score under 34, yes, yes, yes. But at the same time, he did go get George Pickens.

They do have C.D. Lamb. They do have Dak Prescott. He's giving them something to watch. They're averaging 29.2 points in game. It's not like going on there. He's talking about he had before the game started. And now after they go on here to take that L, he's talking about, no, I ain't by waste that money.

Two people ain't go help us. That's the finagery. That's the money part is more important. So I'm with you on that. But, yeah, that's the headlines. He's going to stay in the headlines they lost. He's like, all right, bet, I still got these dudes. Defense playing terrible.

So I'm going to get y'all some headlines. I thought we had somebody now we don't. Now y'all going to talk about them. Now me and you, we talk about it. Okay. Okay. That's what it is. He's staying.

Yes. Hey, Arizona. There's an issue over there, but it's a good issue. It's a quarterback issue. Okay. Yeah. You said, hey, even doing this thing, man. Offense looking better.

They plan better. Harrison just has. had the best game of his NFL career, he found, he found him, he got it to him, you know. I don't know if Tyler, I don't know if Kyler got any more guaranteed money left on that contract than that. I don't, I don't know. But, you know, it's looking like he might get Wally Pip. You know Wally Pip, Brad.

Hey, Busset always say, don't get Wally Pip, you know what I'm saying? Hey, I'm just, hey, I'm just saying, you know, Bressett, he, he's just saying, you know, Berset, he, standing in that pocket when that pocket's closing on him he's standing there and he's delivering collar's only what five 10 five five 11 at at best he when that pocket starts to close he can't just stand in there that's why they got to move him around do all that he can't see over them dudes man and now with him being so injury from they don't guarantee money left man i don't you that should move on i don't i don't why would you give him another what would he getting like almost $45, $46 million.

He probably made him on $50 million. And Berset's numbers for every game he's played has been better than all of his numbers for the games he's played this year. Like, it's not one game where he passed more, had whatever it was than what

Preset did over the last, what, three, four games, whatever it is? They had an opportunity to be Green Bay. Berset's definitely throwing the ball on time. He's looking at efficient. You know what I'm saying? I'm with you 100%. I think maybe with Kyle Murray, too, he's been in him, his time, I don't, I think Kyle Murray could be a good quarterback for sure. And it made his, his time maybe not done in Arizona. You know what I'm

saying? Like, just being a different, a different atmosphere, a different spot. I just like the way, just being able to, the way that their office is flowing, him not being able to see over the top of the line. Jacoby, he's just throwing the ball on time. When you see one-on-ones, sometimes it's not that hard. I think Jacoby's doing the simple. thing. You're seeing they playing man to man on your best player. When you got the simple thing, you know, and you're doing it, but you don't have the height to see over it, you can't get to it. So all the times where, you know, a receiver is open, he don't get it to him. He may not be able to see him. I mean, you hear Tua say something

about he couldn't see him. How tall is Tua? You know, that you made sure they got the wrong, you know, to Marvin. This time, you know what I'm saying? I mean, it could have something to do with Marvin Harrison Senior stating something like, you know, if he was in that offense, you know, in his prime, that they basically sent him a prepaid an envelope to send his gold jacket

back to the Hall of Fame from Cannes. Oh, man. Basically, he said if he didn't do it was necessary to get the man to ball. He got what? Nine, ten targets. Most that he's had all his, you know, since he came.

came out, I mean, I don't know. You don't do that. I mean, the guy day one. That's what I'm supposed to do. No, I mean, and I think some of the stuff, too, is it could be at the end of the day, like Colin Murray, not forcing him to ball, not, not forced feeding him, but Jacoby at the same time knowing I'm in here, I have this baller. I'm going to make sure if he's better than the dude covering him, why would not not target

him more than not? You know what I'm saying? Why did they do that before, though? I mean, that's the quarterback's decision, maybe. Like, you drop him back and everybody's running their pass routes. Maybe you got a primary, but if it's man to man, I'm going to throw it to who I want to throw it to. I'm going to throw it to Marvin Harrison Jr. That's running this dig route on this corner.

I think he's going to beat. You know what I'm saying? Like, I could think it like that. So I think Jacob is just taking the easy money. Like, maybe don't overthink it. Kyle Murray might be just like, all right, I'm going to drop back in wherever it is on this man. I'm going to have a, he has a different thought process going on. on Jacobi or like Flacco.

When you back there, sometimes it's not that hard. If they're in man on your better players, I'm going to throw it to them. You know what I'm saying? Instead of like him only having his highest of nine targets, Colin Murray's been a quarterback with Marvin Harrison Jr. There's no reason why he shouldn't have 13 targets. So you're saying that it's either the quarterback or the O.C. Yes.

Because if you have the option when you're the quarterback and it's a man-to-man call and you, I mean, it's called and you see the, defense is in man to man, single high. Right now, you go to your matchups. You go to what you like. It's not like, it's not going to be, oh, no, who is he going to be open? I like him. You know he's running a dig and they're man to man. It's going to be him versus him. If he beats them on this route, if I'm looking off, by the time I look back and throw it on time, he's going to be there and beating that dude on the dig route and he could just take this to the house. So for me, it's more like, be simple. Don't make it as hard for yourself. And I think that's what

Jacobi's doing and being able to be successful throwing it to him when he sees man-in-man coverage with Marvers Harrison Jr. That's where I'm going to go with the ball. You know what I'll look off, whatever, and then I know when I'm my last step, when I drop, he's over there coming off the curl, and I think he won that route. You're going to say it's more of the quarterback being able to see what's there and getting it to him than it is the OC making the call. I think so. I mean, I can understand that. I can understand that. Speaking of OC, your boy, Kevin Stavansky, he said, you know, he's, he'd go give up the play calling. for the office.

He said he's going to let the OC do it. You know, he said, quote, I just feel like it was the right time for this. He might feel like that because somebody might have to go after this. I don't know who the OC is, but somebody might have to go after this. And with that being the case,

I'm going to hand these duties over that I've been doing to the OC because the offense has been, playing terrible. And I know I can't find nobody on that defensive side of the ball and use them as the scapegoat to how I'm going to keep my job as the head coach

and stay here. So, I understand what he's saying, but I feel like this might be a cop-out for the sell-out. What do you think, John? He did the same thing, last year when he gave up the play calling.

I'm just trying to figure out why would you go back to the play calling if we knew that there was an option to give it back up? Or I'm thinking maybe since it's going into the Bible. Do they have the same coordinator as last year that's this year?

I don't know. That's a good question. But long, so long story short, I mean, this is the thing. Dylan Gabriel was his guy. Kevin Safansky, you were the offensive coordinator. You were calling the plays. I think now since it's going to be the bye week,

giving him a little more time, understanding that, I think it's going to be, my whole thing is, it should, who's going to be the offense coordinator for Shador? Because, I mean, if Dylan Gabriel, I think it's kind of a scapegoat move because Kevin Stafaski doesn't want to be the officer coordinator

when Shador is probably the quarterback, because I think that's probably going to be coming soon. Are you thinking you trying to step out the way so they don't say he's sabotaging the man's efforts when he get in there? That's what you're thinking. man maybe maybe but I mean the offense just hasn't been doing well I think he's just trying to do something trying to switch it up he has to do something because I mean he I know he knows his he's in a hot seat and I don't know if he's going to be there much longer bro like I said I think this is this is an attempt to be like all right yeah I gave it up at this point and you know it still did nothing and I don't know I think hey I'm getting getting ready to go on here, have me, have me a scapego.

I would love to know if the OC was the same OC last year as it is this year. That's, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, if Dylan, because now we can't, if Dylan, if the same thing, Dylan, just dump balls, dump balls, not throwing. or down the field, not even giving our receivers type of downfield routes. Let's see if he changes it up a little bit. Because I know when Shador gets in there, I want to see him. Like, I think hopefully he does the smart thing, trying to throw some balls downfield, just getting the ball

out of his hand on time, you know, just things that he was doing in college. How long till you see them having to put Shadour in? I see if we lose. I mean, if we come out of the buy, we can lose to the Jets. I mean, why not? where else we're going to go from there you know what i'm saying it's like there's no and the defense plays well

and defense plays well and he just looks normal you know what i'm saying like he doesn't do anything to help he don't he don't he don't do no help but he also don't do no hurt you're not doing no help so like we lost to the jets we come off the buy off two weeks you know and you're going to be it is what it is it's tight competition you haven't really done too much to impress too much to you know i'm saying show that you can be that guy if you don't come off the by week and ball out versus the jets and go out there and make something happen, then your time is up. Then it's time for us to at least go see what Shador can do. You know what I'm saying? But if he goes

up there and wins, I think he got another two weeks, but if you come on and lose after the buy, like, what do we, what do we wait for? Hey, word is, your new org coordinator was the tight ends coach. Last year, he's the O.C. now. So the O.C. from last year,

he got him out of there. Hey, be careful. He might be setting you up and get you up out of there now. Hey, hey, hey, we go sit down waiting to see Kevin Stofansky. It's going over here. We're going to go on over here to another head coach. Zach Taylor said he was not good with the criticism that I think it was a Brown. Brown gave to the defense.

Like, I don't. understand like what he's saying you know you can't do that i agree with him like like he know they trash you know you know when you look at it they super trashed they own pace to give up the most points dude in NFL history you know and the record is 534 by the panthers last year. Like, they don't already gave up 309 games. They got eight games left. You know, you got New England. They got Baltimore twice, Buffalo. And now the way the Cardinals look, that's going to be a problem, too. They keep, you know, Brissette in there. So, how do you feel about it? Will you, you agree? I don't see you disagreeing, to be honest,

what you do. No, man. I don't disagree with it at all. The thing is, bro, it's the NFL. It's a job. It's a professional business. As much as everybody wants to talk about, like, you got to do your job on offense and your job is to score every single time you go out there. Our job was the defense is to stop them every time we go out there. These dudes feel like crap. You know what I'm saying? So being another professional dude as a teammate, we're already getting beat up, you know what I'm saying, getting talked down to crazy. and we already feel down. And them dudes, being professionals,

are going, go to that film and watch that tape and take that in. And no, they're not going to be able to feed their families much longer. You know what I'm saying, playing like this. You're going to be cut. You're not going to be in the league much longer like this.

So they know this while they're out there playing, while they're missing these tackles, and coming in and then looking in the media and hearing your own brothers that you're trying to go to war with, knowing you're trying, knowing, you know what I'm saying? You might be ass and you play terrible. You know that yourself.

You're a professional. You didn't make it this far, you know what I'm saying? Just going out playing shitty and not knowing you played bad. No question. Like you are very self-aware of when you do good and when you do bad. Well, most people are very self-aware. A lot of people are delusional, you know what I'm saying. Like, you know, they think they might have did better than what they did.

Or your person that, you know, looks at the tape and was like, oh, it wasn't that bad. No, it was. Ah, no, no. For sure. You can't be like that. I'm saying, within closed quarters, when you're in the team meetings and we're looking at the tape, that's the time to tell them, damn, bro.

Like, this is not okay. This is not winning football. You can get all that off your chest in the meeting rooms, in the team meeting rooms. But when you're in there, that's media. Those are feds. That's you trying to get outside stuff out there to everybody else. So now they clowning on me and making us. Tell me

that right in the locker, you're going to see me on Monday meetings. You're going to see me Tuesday. You're going to see me Wednesday. But to do that and try to oust us and make us feel even more shitty and have the team not coming to me like this man immediate brown telling me he hot y'all are terrible

you know what I'm saying right now you're trying to not act you know answer the question back emotionally but you and your emotions anyway but now you're feeling emotional because you know you're trash you know and I don't I don't feel like anybody

that don't play that side of the ball should have really any comment on the other side like if you don't play that side don't have no comment on my side. If you're on the other side of the ball, talk about what y'all could have did. That's the same thing when, like, we were playing, you know, great defense, and the offense didn't get points or they didn't score or whatever that, you know, whatever that case may be, you know, it was never, hey, da, da, no, our job as a defense is to stop them from

scoring. If we stopped them from scoring, we don't lose. And on top of it, we can score points. So that was how we dealt with, you know, with that. especially, you know, with the media, it's like, yo, no. Did we put a shut out? No, we ain't put a shut out. Well, then we ain't got no place to be talking about. We ain't got no place to be talking about the other side of the ball, no matter how bad they are. Yes.

And the realization is, we know it as a defense. You know, you can be like this, man, they got to get a, hopefully, like, we didn't get a touchdown for us. But you're not, you know your job is at the end of the day to make sure you never, You can't go home talking to somebody else's kitchen when you gave up plays and, like, things are, you know what I'm telling you? And that's what he said. You know, it was, uh, Taylor was like, yeah, it was points where we could have, we could have made plays and scored more points and, you know, kept the ball and all that. That was something that, you know, that he had responded in when he had gave his comments. So I don't have a problem with it.

I think it's, you know, I thought that it was just common sense to, you know, respond that way, you know what I'm saying? Washington over there I guess, you know, Dan Quinn admitted what everybody had already knew. Like, he was wrong. He admitted that, you know, what did he say? He missed it. He missed. What you missed?

You miss. You missed the fact that y'all was down by 31 and you still had your quarterback sitting up in there who had just got back from being hurt. Yeah, especially now looking back, that man that dislocated everything in that arm and all that. I don't even know if he, how long he'll be out, when he coming back, all that good stuff.

No. You know, he was out there, you was out there coaching blind. Blind and deaf. You couldn't even hear it. You couldn't hear it. I'll see.

Somebody would have told you. Touchdown, touchdown. Who? Who? I mean, what was going to do, man. You know? It was bad.

It was bad. A good thing, he took accountability. If he didn't take accountability, he would have. They might have had to fire him talking about, you know, it wasn't my fault. They think, no.

Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. Dude, and the NFL also suspended the commander's linebacker. Frankie, what is it, Louie? Hip drop tackles. They got him. They got him. They got him up by the suspended him a game, dude. I don't know.

They said it was a repeat, they think they said it was a repeat offender. This was the third, third hip drop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't. So he said he was this, dude, you know how hard it is to purposely get somebody in that position? Like, you got to literally run up on them, be beside them, now grab their hip and drop down and make sure you got the tackle. It's so hard to get in that position. Most people are diving, and as you dive and grab, you get swung.

As you swing, you try and stick your feet in the ground when it stops to try and stop them from gaining more yards. Like, I understand what they're saying, and I know, like I said, I understand both sides, but I don't think anybody is out there purposely trying to hip drop somebody, dude. What do you think? I know what you're saying, Debo, but you know how you know when you're trying to stop somebody from going forward, you drop, and they're saying that that's the type of tackle. So we kind of know, like, when you're pulling from the dude trying to go, you just try to drop your weight. get him down to get them down that's that's how else are we supposed to be it's very very very

hard these dudes are running full speed and i don't think that it's defenders are weird they're putting us to a position where it's super hard to tackle these dudes right they got to understand when we get them like that they keep on trying to drive your legs fall you know what i'm saying you get you need to just let it go like that's how you want you want me to let it go and let him take off you know i get fired he's like to lose my whole career job you know listen I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry

I ain't never trying to make it I know I ain't never letting me go down over anybody else I just can't I can't do that

that's like when they started finding me I just started aiming low I almost toward dudes like me I think it was

in Denver almost toward Lee Decker's knee dude I'm like dude I'm not I'm not about to hit this dude

how And the same Debo you speak in facts because I played with T.J. Ward

and he blew out gronk's knee and they were looking at him like he was a dirty player to me that's a dirty player but you put us in position to do nothing else so that we can save ourselves TJ wanted to hit him up top like when we played against Cincinnati Bengals he hit us it was a young like slot receiver Shipley

or Jordan Shipley something like that fomed on him up top hit him like he wanted to and they find TJ crazy so TJ was like oh no from now on I got to go low I got to take out the legs he wanted to hit gronk up top and just because that's the type of hit he was but he's like no they're going to take all my money so he went low and he knew like not not new but like i got to go low or i'm going to get fine and to hit it took and ended up hurting

gronk's knee but i'm like what do you and they call him my man t jr dirty play i'm like t j's not a dirty player at all you don't understand he wanted to just bell him up top like that would have been his pleasure you know what i'm saying the ball was set up he brady threw a like a uh a blue tent ball and he was ready to smack him and he had to go low and take his legs out and that ended up up his knee. Yeah, dude, it's a bunch of situations where you get that. And, you know, like you said, even if, especially when you're talking about a bigger guy like Grom, he's already coming that way. You can't hit him up high because you go take a chance of getting fine. And even if you do and say, you know what, I'm going to hit him in his waist, you're out of your mind

to hit somebody that heavy and you're that light in their waist. You go put yourself in jeopardy. You have no place to go. And that's when he gets, that's when he starts. bouncing off you have no place to go but the top of the knee down dude that's the that's the easiest part to get down to kick out like because when you go up top they're they're going to swing their legs down and when you go low their top's going to swing down if you hit them in the middle you're going to fold yourself like crumple so you got to either go a little bit high or a little bit low so something's sweeping down what something sweeping yeah dude i was like yo when they were finding me i'm like yo i'm just going to start hitting people low

I said, I'm hitting receivers low. I said, if we're playing you, man, and y'all playing against me, if you don't tell me you go pay my fine, I'm hitting you low. If I have a blindside shot on you. That's just what it is. I got to keep my money in my pocket and make sure that I'm good. Did they put you in any, did you ever, any of a pill in there yours? Dude, I appealed almost all of them.

I only got a little money back and that was on the first one when they fined me $75,000 and it was only supposed to be first fine was supposed to be like 15. They went 75 because that was a year. It was like

bam, bam, bam, back to back and you watching like on NFL or whatever. Somebody go to sleep, somebody go to sleep. Somebody go to sleep. You know what I'm saying? And they was just trying to make an example dude. I'm like, yo, no. So I got something for you. You know, the crazy thing is

the hit that they had Find Me for on Massacquah, they were selling that thing for the game was over with, and then you find me $75,000. They didn't take it down until I said something. That's crazy. You go find me $75,000, but you sold, you started selling a pitcher immediately.

That's out of control. No, for sure. Well, bro, we used to have the NFL jacked up That real live segment that I look forward to watching. And that was sad when you were seeing people crawling out of that dream. I'm like, dang, we was really acting like that was. But that was the way it was. Listen, I don't want to injure you, but I don't want you to finish this game.

You could play next week, but I want you to know you was in the game against the Pittsburgh Steelers. Okay? Even if we don't get you out of there, I want you so sore the next day you're just sitting in a bucket of ice. You're just going hot cold, just trying to make your body feel better. There's consequences for your action. It's consequences and repercussions, man, for stepping on this field. You came out here and disrespected us by showing up. You should have just forfeit the game.

So now I got to show you why. You should have won't get the game. You knew you was playing against me. You knew you was playing against these stillers now. What you're talking about? They called us defense nightquail. Yes. We put you to sleep.

That's already enough. Man, the head coach for Atlanta, Rahim Morris, he said he didn't attend to, you know, make like, you know, the Patriots did something wrong. He said, you know, he was just saying what his guys that told him that, you know, they thought they heard clapping that they were. mimicking, you know, the snap count. So, oh, you know, I understand, you know, where he's coming from.

He may not admit it. But, you know, when you're playing the Patriots, you know, they got a little, they got a little history of things. Yeah, a little finnagery. I ain't, you know, you know, a matter of fact, let me go back. 2004, bro, it was, it was Halloween, In 2004, we played the Patriots that week, and then the next week we ended up playing Philly. Both of them was undefeated.

We beat them. Okay. We played the Patriots on Halloween, bro. Bop them born 34, 34 to 20, bro. Like, okay. They couldn't see where nothing was coming from, bro. This is when the spite that it was going on, okay? Played them in the playoffs, bro.

they hit us on every single blitz or won that's when they was doing that muddle huddle at the line yes and not you know really hurry hurry huddle yeah they got our signals that first game bro they came back that playoff game and that championship game bro did that muddle at the line we go to doing our calls bruh and they catch all that bro and here's the crazy thing everybody's like, oh, James, you're just saying that. You're just saying that. No, I'm not just saying. I know this for a fact because I'm just saying because people on their staff made like, oh, that's just a normal occurrence, dude. Everybody does it. I'm like, no, everybody don't do it. I've never done that or had that done a day in my life. Like, never. And then even recently, I had somebody say, well,

well everybody did it you just didn't know about it man how would i not know about it if i don't know about it how is it going to help me as a defense and it couldn't help us back then because the only people that had the head phone there was the quarterback and he had that live all the way up until what 12 15 seconds was like 15 seconds i do we're showing hard hard here oh no it's coming there boom they're going here we're showing hard hard hard where it's coming oh yeah it's coming there like boom only missed they only miss one blitz dude

like if you ain't cheating they meant that dude you ain't trying you ain't trying so I know that they know for a fact they know for a fact

that they was on to y'all they was on to the six dude when I said some like I said it was like oh come on man everybody I'm like no they don't maybe the way y'all was talking

whatever goes through there but I had never had that a day in my life. Like, if I know, it's like playing Tech Mobile. If I'm looking at your controller, and I know which play you pick, and I pick the same play,

it's over with, right? Oh, yeah. What are we talking about? Yeah, but that was when the signal caller on the defense had no, had no speaker in this thing. So everything was hand signals. All you doing is sitting there.

They got video on the cameras, Watching the signal callers, man, they got all that, man, they came out there. Come on, Debo, they talking, you were talking about this. They put that Owee. I'm just saying, dude, that is facts right there for show. Okay? Now, if they were doing it this time, I don't, I don't know. He said, you know, he wasn't trying to start nothing, but, I mean, when you don't, you know, when you don't went and started a forest fire one time, I got to believe if I see.

you're walking out there with some matches and then it ain't rained in the last two months, you go do it again, you know? Oh, for sure. I lie to you not, though, Debo. When I used to watch film, when I was a quarterback, if the quarterback, they better change, they better change some signals then. Because if a quarterback look over it when I'm studying my tape and gives a receiver like a two or gives them like a this or a deuce or something, I'm trying to figure out if I get that

deuses again and he runs that same route, I'm noticing that. I don't think that's cheating. I think that is being very observant in the game. But when you're sitting there and you already got a piece to the quarterback, it stays on until 15 seconds, you're doing a muddle huddle, the car goes out, we're set up ready to go as a defense, and you're like, no, hey, it's this. That's a big difference.

Especially when it's the offense knowing what you're in as a defense. I don't even have to think. I know. like no no no there's no advantage that we could get as a defense because they can always change their play even if like they did but they never had the signal that's what i'm saying like and then you have like patin omaha omaha am i'm everything that's what i'm i'm the omaha means you know what i'm saying like that's how you throw them off on that ohmaama omaha what dude i wouldn't even listen it doesn't even listen i'm like

Like, dude, don't even listen to that, man. That meant anything, bro. Like, even another call. It'll just be like, sometimes, sometimes I'm going to get you a dummy Omaha. That probably was good. He was good. He had, I don't know how, what the, how they did that or how they, you know, made rules for it. But that, that wasn't it.

Hell, you even go to the one time where they had Cam miced up and Kikli is saying, oh, it's this, it's this. It's this. Yes. And he's like, oh, oh, yeah, for real, da, da, da. Okay, I got, I got something for you. That's, I got something for you. That's the type of stuff I like, because that's from film study, great linebacker study. But they changed it up.

But they changed it up on you. We're going to do it? You know what I'm saying? Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's the good part. Offenses, you got to switch it up because he's like, oh, yeah, you studied that. But I'm going to hit you with this. You know what I'm saying?

So that's the chess game of good work, Luke Keechley, great linebacker, just trying to get a little insider like when they run this and they move like that. And offense doing the great job of self-studying. Like, oh, no, we did this. We're doing this. We need to switch it up a little bit. so they're expecting this and we can run that. That's great, just, that's the inside of the game.

Like, great linebackers studying and the offense is studying themselves. Yeah, I tried, I ain't even a lot of you, dude. I tried to get an understanding of what they're doing, but I didn't want to get, like, real, like, alignment, assignment, like tips and tendencies from, you know, formations and all that. I didn't want to do that because I didn't want to be looking for something. The only thing I looked for was I look for whoever I was going against or somebody on the offensive line that did something.

That was 100%. Dude, let me. take you back so we're playing um we're playing buffalo and we're watching tape and the fullback dude when he would get down and it was a run play he would get down and if it was a run play he would do his hand like this square bro okay and every time he did his hand like that it was a run play it was a hundred percent dude so we're sitting there and we're just literally watching him him and if he was in the game and he got down and he was you know he was there he didn't do his hand it was a pass i don't know if he got set into a thing where just nerds jitters or getting

ready whatever but literally dude he'd have the hand down you know this one would be sitting on his knee and he'd do like this he did just like that dude it was a dang like he ride the way 100% and we just start, dude, we just started hollering Army Navy, bro. That's it. Like, Army Air Force, sorry. We was like Army Air Force. Like, Army Air Force. Like, that's it.

We're like, yo, they're on the ground or they're in the air. Like, and we know this just from looking at him. I don't know how they didn't pick that up. Like, they didn't know. They ain't self-stained. They got to watch Satan be like, buddy, you got to, you got to just keep it. You got to keep it. or just do it every time.

Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. Right. You got to give them something to, you know, to look. Even when you're in the 80s, I'm still going to take that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

No, for sure. That's like a tackle that you look at. You're like, oh, man. Oh, when he kicked that foot back wide, bro, he's trying to get out of there. He's trying to get out of there. When he keep it close, he's keeping it close because he wants to be able to get that foot down fast enough because he got a run block. You know what I'm saying? Like, I would look for, I would look for things like that.

That was all. What did you look for me if it was going on. Man, Debo, my thing was I was big, big, big on third downs, on the money downs. What a receiver is running on third and short, third in one to three, third and four to seven, and then third at eight to 12. Because that was my thing. That's the money downs. Like, we're going to get them stopped on first and second. Like, I would study those downs too big time, but my biggest thing was third down.

Who's off the ball, who's on the ball? What concepts do they like to run? Are they a sticks team or do they like to go beyond the sticks? Because I want to know if I can, if you're a sticks team, if it's third and two, I'm going to back off and act like I don't know that the sticks are there. And you're going to throw a hit or a slant and I can go get that money. So I was really on some trying to play with the quarterbacks, the tendencies, understanding who's on and off, what routes they like to run. So I was a big third down because that's when like they don't really change. Third down is money down.

Offenses, they like to run, but they run. They switched up up on first and second. But third down, you're going to go to your go-toes. You're going to go to your good stuff. What works? would always study that and that dream was how you get picks you can make a lot of plays because everything's first and down it's like depending on flows a lot of things switch but when it gets to third downs they got a lot of like this more a lot of set things for splits alignments

and what receipts run so how they stem out of there what they doing all that like top of the numbers bottom of the numbers which one is on like which ones off how far they split you know what I'm saying can he run that out route to the fade so like just little things like that concepts oh yeah yeah for For sure. For sure. I ain't very much, you, Buzz had me so into it. Like, if I saw somebody in front of me, I immediately started getting depth. I'm like, yo, they're trying to get me to bite the cheese. I'm like, they're trying to get me to bite the cheese, man.

Devo, I feel it, and I respect. All you did to do with you out there and be like this. Look, we see you in coverage. We know. I'm hoping that they throw it over there to you because I'm going to make sure I got your back. You know what I'm saying? For sure.

For show. I'm like Coach Buzz, man. Best linebacker coach I ever had in life, dude. Keep bugger. Come on, man. For sure. I mean, you're putting your, dropping y'all back in the cover sometimes. I'm like, why is Debo, you know what I'm saying?

Dude, you got to realize, dude, the defense that we played is nothing like the defense. Even when I came back in 14, I'm retired, the defense was changed. Even though Coach LeBow was there, the defense was changed. They had to. You dumbed it down. Basically. They dumped it down because it's a learning curve. And when you don't give guys the time to have that learning curve, you're going to, you're

going to get, you're going to get points scored on you because you're not going to know everything you got to do in every situation. And like I said, dude, you can go from a full out blitz and got nothing to emotion putting you on somebody locked up man to man. And if you miss that, it may be that one nuance, then they score a touchdown or they get, you know, 20, 30 yards, whatever that may be and extends the drive and so on and so forth. So when, you know, they started starting younger guys you know it it took away other parts that you know you couldn't do which put holes and gaps and instead of it being holes in gaps it just took away that whole defense so now you were left with less of a defense to play because now I can't run this one defense but if I could

run that one defense it gives these three other defense teeth now I take away that one defense these defense ain't got no teeth now you know what you're looking at it's simplified the defense, but it simplifies it for the offense, too. Yeah, because they know now you're just sitting there. If somebody moves, we could be running something completely different, but everybody got to know what we're about to get into. And that's the same thing. Like, I got to be in there with somebody who's been in this defense,

who knows this defense, who's going to play on that chain with me. Because if I'm sitting here four, four by five on number two, and I actually supposed to be blitzing, but the damn safety is stacked two yards behind me. He knows I'm not. He knows I'm not covering. I need my safety to play at that deep. And when he sees me going, then he can roll down.

Because now the quarterback, look, oh, yeah, I got this right here. He called it on the string. Let me call this over here. They're coming over here because they're showing hard over here. They actually dropping and we're coming. But if you don't have that, you're not on that string with your corner, which a linebacker, with your safety, you don't get those plays. you don't get those opportunities

and you let the quarterback read your mail before it even get delivered to you. You're going online like the post office got now what's coming. What did they just stand? You know what I'm saying? What that boy said, stop undressing yourself.

You got us undress. You undressing. Br, undressing out there. Butt-necked. Bucking naked. Exposed. Exposed. You know what I'm saying?

Bucking naked. That, like you said, bucking that kid. Look here, man. I think that's about it for us, though, man. Look, we want to thank you guys again for joining us for this episode of Debo and Joe. Please make sure you guys like and subscribe. We will be back here on Friday to talk about that Thursday night football. Joe, yes, sir.

Y'all know, make sure you like and subscribe, man. Me and Debo really appreciate the love. Yes. Keep it coming. We'll see you all on Friday. Appreciate you. And we out. How are you doing today, Joe?

Let me tell you something, Debo. Devo, it's my time real quick. This is an IHeart podcast.