Nightcap - Deebo & Joe - Part 1: Has NFL figured out Lamar Jackson + Steelers LEGEND Heath Miller joins!

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

Join NFL Legends James "Deebo" Harrison and Joe Haden are joined by former NFL Pro Bowler and Pittsburgh Steelers legend Heath Miller to discuss his connection with Ben Roethlisberger, being drafted by the Steelers, and much more! Download the PrizePicks app today and use code DEEBOJOE to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/DEEBOJOE Timeline:00:00 - Intro04:38 - Mike McCarthy in trouble?13:44 - Has Lamar Jackson been figured out?27:19 - Heath Miller joins29:33 - Heath Miller on UVA career37:18 - Connection with Ben Roethlisberger  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Club #NightcapSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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My latest episode is with Noah Kahn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit stick season and one of the biggest voices in music today. Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. Getting to talk about this is not common for me. Right now I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the I-Heart radio app. podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy

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Just download Price Picks app today and use the code Debo Joe to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. That code is Debo Joe to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, it's good to be right. Welcome back to this episode of Debo and Joe. I'm your host James Debo. Harrison, and I'm here with my co-host, Joe, Hayden. Please make sure you like, subscribe, and download where you get the show. How you doing today, Joe?

Doing great, brother, Debo. Doing great. Back at the crib, was in the land this weekend, had a little autograph signing. And you know what? Somebody gave me this jersey. And I thought it was only right that I rock it on the show today, you know. It just made sense. And I went backwards style with it, went Nelly, went 2000s Nelly with it,

going backwards. you know what I'm saying with the gators so I go all my squads I got the browns I got the distillers I got the gators you know what I'm saying

I'm just rapping you're just rapping any and everything not any and everything not any and everything no I'm saying I'm saying I'm saying you just

I ain't got nothing I ain't where I put blood sweating tears at yeah yeah I understand what you're saying man I understand what you're saying um yeah so um

sitting a little light today baby the portion of God got a hold of me boy right before we got jumped on here, boy. He had me sitting on the throne. You know what? You was calling countdown from the throne.

Hey, I had to. Two minutes. I'll let y'all know I'll be there. Yeah. Yeah, Debo, you got to get to it. You could coffee run through you? Bro, I don't know what happened, bro. I got through working out and it was like, yo, give me me free.

And he was like, I got to go. Listen, you know how you turn around, you don't know what it is? I'm like, what was that? I don't even know what I was that. Hey, see, there you go. You might be like. I'm light, though. I'm light, though.

I'm light, though. I feel like 10 pounds lighter. You know what I'm saying? Give them all that. Get them all that. You know what I'm saying? You got it out your system. You got out your system.

No question. No question. Look here, people. We are going to have my guy, our guy, Heaf. Miller, about 30 minutes from now. But when we go jump into right here real quick is, I guess Yahoo Sports insider, Charles Robinson, he warns that Mike McCarthy is stepping into an all-bad situation in Pittsburgh.

He said, I don't like the situation for McCarthy's end. We could argue whether or not it's worse, but with McCarthy's age, he's a win now coaching hire. You're sitting, you're still sitting there starting. you're still sitting there, staring at a quarterback problem. They're expected to win games. They're expected to get whatever gas they can out of this aging roster.

We've expected, they're expected to somehow make the quarterback situation work with Aaron Rogers. It's all bad for Mike McCarthy. What do you think, right? People talking. People talking. I don't think, honestly, he doesn't know what we got in Will Howard. I think Mike McCarthy is going to be,

he developed quarterbacks, basically. That's what he does. And I think that if he believes in Will, then I'm rocking with it. I think that everybody's looking at the situation. It doesn't look good from the outside looking at. If you're another team, that we don't have a legitimate quarterback.

We don't have a franchise guy right now. And if it looks like we're still trying to wait on Arod, then I can see why people are still saying this. They're speaking the same thing, Debo, that they've been saying about us, Nothing's changed. A. Ross still on our team. We have Will Howard and Mason Rudolph.

So our situation does look pretty bad from the outside looking at. What do you think? I don't think is being set up to fail. I don't know. I wouldn't go that far. 100%. Mike McCarthy is a win now higher. That's why the Steelers keep saying we're not rebuilding.

When you look at it, Mike Tomlin with, what, 19 years without having a losing season. So it was 500 a better. Yes. So right now, he has to do 500 or better. But they're saying it as if, you know, it's Super Bowl right now or it's bus, you know, that's, that's ridiculous. It hasn't been that the whole time. Right. The Steelers haven't, we haven't won a Super Bowl since, what, 2009.

And our last appearance was against the man that we hired the lost to in 2011. But the most concerning thing for the Steelers was we went almost 10 years without a playoff win. And last win, 2016, we had nine seasons in between there. We made it to the playoffs six times and we lost every single game. Okay? Like, that's what they're upset with. So, like, winning the Super Bowl, like, it's always the goal. It's always the goal.

But they aren't upset about that. They're upset that we could not win a playoff game. So the stillers are thinking, at least in. In my mind, they're thinking, for this to be a successful year or a successful hire, they need to win a playoff game. And I think that's the biggest reason why the Steelers are still sitting around waiting on Aaron Rogers. Because they're saying, okay, we're going to give Mike McCarthy the same setup that Tomlin had. And now we'll see if he can get better results. and then to them that will justify their hiring and the belief or the fact that like you said,

we don't know what Will Howard can do. That's what I'm doing. Aaron Rogers is going to give us a better chance at getting into the playoffs now. Yes. And, you know, with all the new hires that McCarthy has, the coaches, the staff, it's more experience, either coaching or actually playing the game itself. Yeah. And the staff is a better staff.

than what was there previously in the previous coaching staff. So you get better coaches, you get your players to pay better because I'm going to be teaching you better. $1,000. And we're not saying, and this is what I'm saying to, Debo, we weren't saying like Super Bowl or Bust,

we haven't won the Super Bowl in a while. So I'm looking at Mike McCarthy building a good team. Like as many good players, like quarterback is always going to be the thing that everybody sits and talks about. But what about our line? What about our running backs?

What about our receiver? What about our defense? What about our corners? How good is the execution going to be at this full team? So with Mike McCarthy, I don't think like mediocrity, we don't have to be terrible. Will Howard doesn't have to be a pro-bowl quarterback for the Steelers to win nine to ten games. And if he's not, and this is the thing too. If he's not good enough and we do have the 20th pick and we know the quarterback's the position that we need, we can trade our first round pick and our second round pick, trade up like the way we did to go get Devin Bush. When we need a linebacker, they trade it up to 11. to go get a linebacker. If you think quarterback is a position that we need once we have this team, where Howard doesn't end up being a guy, then we can figure it out. But us still being good, us still being competitive. Mike McCarthy, you got a team with you.

Let's see what the quarterback situation looking like, but there's no reason why we should be getting blown out. We're still the Steelers. We still have great defense. We still have amazing players on the offensive side of the ball. Quarterback is a position where everybody's looking like, okay, A. Rod, Will. We don't know. So now Mike McCarthy got his staff.

there. How's he going to run it? How was he going to do it with this team that we got? Then we could figure it out from there and move forward. So I'm never really in that big panic situation for the quarterback because it is what it is. You got to build a team. Quarterback is a position that we need. We're waiting on ARO. We don't know what's going on with Will. Mike McCarthy's there. He's in the building. He's been talking highly on Will and he talked about ARO. So we know we are with that. The draft is still up. We're going to see what happens. You know what I'm saying? So I'm just to the point where everybody's going to keep talking about how bad the quarterback situation is,

because if you were the outside looking in, Will Howard and Mason Rudolph are the quarterbacks that are on the Pittsburgh Steelers team right now. So your situation doesn't look too good. If you know what I'm saying? Like you don't have a franchise guy. So saying that, not a crazy statement. That's his biggest thing, though, is that the Steelers don't have a young franchise quarterback.

That's basically his number one issue. And when you look at it, it was nobody out there that was an automatic proven that was ready to come up to be signed that we could just say, hey, here, here's the fill in. So why not sit there? And the draft did not have anything that was an automatic for sure. So why not sit there and say, all right, after you sit back, you look at it, you start fixing all the other areas, which Omar Khan is doing.

Keep doing. You know what I'm saying? Yes. The only spot you have left is the quarterback. As we said before, when Ben was on, Ben said it himself, like, yo, I was put in. Like, everything else was there. Like, and I think, and he said, I think that's, you know, how they should do or not. But yes.

It's when now, worst case, is he got to do 500 or better? Anything below 500, the higher of Mike McCarthy by the Pittsburgh Steelers will be considered a fail. Because when we're saying the win now too, Debo, I'm like, we have a good football team on the Arkansas side of the ball, defense side of the ball. We're going to see if the quarterback, if he's handing it off, we got good run game, he's not turning it over. We're not asking to throw for 5,000 yards. You know what I'm saying? 22 touchdowns, 5, 6

picks, smooth. Like, that'd be a good, good, that'd be solid for them. So, like, we're not accidentally reinvent the wheel, just go in there, be consistent. The team around them is going to be able to help them because we're actually getting good players.

Yeah, yeah. I think what Omar has did as far as, well, what the stillers have done, but Omar being able to actually do his title and GM was, extremely beneficial for us this year in getting the positions that we need, the players we need to fill into the spots we need. And right now we got what 12 draft choices? What is it, four or five in the top hundred? So I mean, we have a chance to still fill in a lot more spots

and, you know, get depth at other spots that, you know, we need help me. I don't see it. As a, you know, set up to fail, a bad situation. He's a coach that has a history of winning. He's a developing quarterback. Yeah, that just coached that had before, you know. And we'll see. We'll see. It's on Mike.

We'll see. Yes, it's on him. He's getting to do what he needs to do, put the people in place. He got all his coaches. He got, I mean, I, it. Man, to the equipment staff. He got everybody in there. I don't know. Like, we'll see, so.

Where are we at? We got LaMaw. LaMah. Brough. I cannot say the dude from the commander's last name. What is it? Charles. How you say that name? One more time.

That's my... Charles. A mini who. Charles... There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never never. Mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own. own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F1, including the astrology, of the current grid. Lewis Hamilton, Capricorn Sun, Cancer Moon.

Wouldn't you know it? Michael Schumacher is also a Capricorn Sun, Cancer Moon. The story of the sports most consequential driver's strike. We have one man who, upon hearing that he was going to be fired, freaked out, and apparently climbed out the window of the bathroom. And was Daniel Ricardo's illustrious F-1 career, a success story, a cautionary tale, or some combination of both? He started getting all this attention, and he maybe started to think, I'm bigger than that.

Yes, I'm better. And plenty of other mishaps, scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much

that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl,

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Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that. That's so funny. Shall each day with me, So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to playing along on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Kahn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit stick season and one of the biggest voices in music today.

Noah opens up about the pressure that followed his rapid success, his struggles with mental health and body image, and the fear of starting again after such a defining moment in his career. It's easy to look at somebody and be like, your life must be so sick. Man, you have no clue. Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of.

I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically or in pain in some emotional way in my life to create good music. If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Someone says that I suck. I'm like, I suck. Getting to talk about this is not common for me. Right now I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed. revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so-ins, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Alespian and Michael Nanchini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, many who. Okay. Right. Let's go with that. NFL veteran. He says that

I don't think the league has truly figured out Allen yet, talking about Josh Allen. With Lamar, he said, honestly, you bring a five-man rush on him, collapse the pocket, he's drifting backwards, and unfortunately,

he might make a play that isn't going to be to the best play for the, that isn't going to be the best play for the Ravens. With Josh, he's going to, drift backwards, run around, and he goes, and he's so hard to tackle. I don't know about that.

Well, maybe for that. He's a large human being, hard to get down. He can make every throw, every throw from no matter where he's at. He has a strong. His arm strength. His arm strength is unbelievable. I don't think Lamar has, I don't think Lamar has that big amount of arm strength, like Josh does, that big amount. Like I said, I think you figured out, Lamar. I think you figured out Lamar. You think Lamar's biggest part of his game

is his ability to be a two-way threat. Yes. And his effectiveness, his effectiveness is basically predicated off being able to do that. So what I would do, if I was playing tomorrow's, I'm taking away his legs and forcing him to beat me passing the ball. And he's getting older as he's getting older. He's getting more soft tissue injuries.

And you're running the ball, but you're not training necessarily to deal with all that demand that comes in season from running that ball. You got to train in the offseason like you're running back and be ready to go out there and do what it is that, you know, he's doing weekend and week out. Plus still be able to do what you need as a quarterback. So, you know, once you take away what makes him, you know, a special generational talent that quarterback, you're able, like he said, if you're able to get the five-man pressure and you don't have to blitzing him all the time to get there, you make him have to be more of a traditional quarterback. And that diminishes, that just diminishes his effectiveness, dude.

Like, causes, like he said, causes turnovers. and sometimes he may actually beat you with it, but I just don't see it happening on a consistent basis. When you look at the Steelers, we're three and seven against him. Lamar is averaging about 174 yards in those games that, you know, they ended up losing his career average $195, which is still low. And then in the wins, we look at the wins, 180 yards rushing as a team.

Lamar got 80 of that on an average. and then in the seven losses, he only got 54 yards wrestling. So you take away the use of his legs, you increase your chances of winner. And that's basically what the still is dude. Like, yo, if they're able to be like, yo, we're going to make him pass the ball and sit in the pocket, put pressure on him, make him uncomfortable, if they're able to do that, they win. So I just don't, I don't see him being able, unless he figures out how to be more of a pocket

presence and getting the ball out on time and two guys, you know, with, you know, effective timing. His biggest thing is, you know, his legs. And you got to sit there and some guys either sit back and wait and see, you know, that run past, option read stuff like that kills people. No, we're not going to wait. You right here, as soon as he do that, he lose the protection of a quarterback. Your job is to just smack him. Don't do nothing.

That's how coached the ball used to do it. Hey, as soon as they start doing that, pre-off, you know, pass. stuff? Smack the quarterback. Your job is to smack the quarterback. I don't care. Nothing else. If you're unsure, hit him. And guys that do

that or teams that do that are able to do that or effective at it, then you put him into a situation where you know, they got to pass the ball and you have a better chance of winning the game. What do you think? I think both things are Lamar Jackson. I think he is a very,

very talented. I think he can throw the ball too. I think when what my man was saying about Josh Allen's arm strength being so much bigger and he can make more throws, I don't see it that way. I understand what he's saying. If you, Lamar Jackson's legs are so special that if you got to pick one, I'd rather him throw against me because he would chop up the defense and be able to run like a wide receiver if people go past their lanes.

So I would say when you're playing against him, if you're saying you figure them out, I think he can still make throws. But if you're telling both what's worse, I would say, I really, I would say, I really, I rather him throw the ball against me than run the ball against me. So that's when you're saying, you have your great rush lanes and you're forced him to throw the ball. I'd rather him be a passer against me than a runner. So I understand what he's saying there, but I think he can still make the throw.

So he's not like saying, oh, Josh Allen's, I mean, Lamar Jackson, if you just make him throw, he can't win. He's saying, if you please take away his legs, because that will really kill you. He can still make the throws, but if you pick him best of both worlds, I'd rather have him in the pocket with my dudes in their rush lanes and have him make him throw. the ball against me. I would say same thing too with Lamar. His weapons haven't really like he has a tight end. It was cool. And then we had Hollywood Brown. I mean, Andrews amazing, pro bowl tight end. But he hasn't really had too many like number ones, a guy as you had outside that you could just give it to and throw the ball to.

Like just on one-on-ones. He hasn't had a Jamar Chase. He hasn't had a T. Higgins. So for me, I hear what he's saying. But he's making sense because if it was on me, I would rather Lamar throw the ball than run. The big thing where Alan is, you know, he's saying he's hard to tackle all this other stuff. I'm not. Alan can make those throws. And then Alan can go ahead and throw somebody else to ball too. For sure. I mean, when timing right.

Lamar does the same thing. Don't nobody want to talk about that, though. I don't know why. He turns a rock over like crazy in the playoffs too. But the last couple of times when it was looking at it, we had Andrews dropped the ball. We've had people. Lamar Jackson wasn't the reason why they lost. these games in the playoffs at the end.

For sure. It hasn't been his fault. I think his team has let him down in these last playoff runs. It hasn't been his bad. Do you think he hasn't? None of those turnovers had anything to do with it.

Brother, I mean, they didn't help, but at the end of the game, they had a chance to win, and then they would play is like drop, drop the pass, fumbling the end zone, diving the end zone. Like, legitimate bang, bang. that lose the play. You want to give the emphasis

on the last person to not make a play. Because, I mean, all things happen in the game, exactly, but you get to the fourth and now everything happened. Now can we win or lose it?

You know what I'm saying? I mean, the head coach got fired. Man got fired after what, 18 years? Yeah. I don't know. We'll see you. I don't know.

Who know what was going on in there? Boy, I'm so hot right now. Well, I see you. Brud. This is what happened. Did your AC working? Listen, listen, bro, I told you, I'm living on a budget, bro. So the heat, it got warm around here.

So take a minute for the air to, you know, to get going because old system, you know, old system. So when I got home, I turned the air on because it was 75 degrees in here, bro. Then I got these lights shining on. That's crazy. You know what I'm saying? It's probably 80 in here right now. I'm up here. Yeah.

You're sweating bullets. Sweeting bullets, bro. And then Debo, too, like, Lamar, not to just, Lamar, the field. Bro, I'm so hot right now. Lucky I got no taco meat busted out, bro. What do you say now, but? I was saying that even, like, Lamar, last, the one, they just missed the field goal at the end of the game. Like, all that.

That's not his bad. That's like three of them, joint. That's three games. I mean, they could have won. He did everything he could have did. L. I understand what you're saying, but I will go with, if you sit back and you strategize correctly, the thing is to make him have to pass the ball to beat you and don't let him escape

and get extra yards of outside the pocket. Yes, rush lanes. Contain rush lanes. Keep him in there for sure. Because once he escapes, that's when you're going to really just mess your whole squad up. and that's if if you can contain that's what I'm saying

but he's also getting noted he's going to slow down a little bit just got to start slides you say hell just close to the end of last year the whole last part of the season I'm like yo that's something where he would have normally got out on yeah yeah no yeah he was it was a little

he was moving a little bit a little a little tick slower it was a little bit slower well you got to still you got a little You got a little, you feeling good, though, Debo? You're straight. I'm feeling great, baby. I just got through working out.

That's what I'm still running. Oh, okay. From the workout, too. That's what it is, too. That's what I'm saying. Oh, yeah, to let me know you got that working. Woo. Oh, yeah, you're going to be.

I had a hat sitting high right now, but just say they was talking about have we ever like, have I ever figured out quarterbacks? Like, they were talking about Lamar Jackson and how he got figured out. I think sometimes, too, though, it's the offensive scheme. If the defense, if you, you, you, You got them figured out if you got them behind the sticks. If you got them playing, you know what I'm saying, behind the sticks, then there's nothing really they could do.

So I feel like sometimes just depending on how the defense is playing. I think when you say figured out, though, it's like this person's set of skills, we have figured out. I got you. Okay. They're affecting it because we know what they do well and what they don't do well. It's a lot different than, okay, we got you in a backed up situation. man, if I get, you know, Tom Brady in the third and 20, it's going to be fun.

You know what I'm saying? So that's a little different than, you know, we figured him out. Or they figured him out. Maybe they figured him out to a certain extent. I really feel like we have as a, you know, Steelers, as a team, as a, you know, a staff as far as how to approach and play him, it's just that, you know, I don't know what happened when we get into the playoffs. Things get, it got real ugly. to you know what I'm saying?

The way as you said, it's the five rushers don't let him escape the pocket because when he runs, that's the thing. We would rather have him past them run and there's no disrespect because it's just legs are special. Yeah, if you can't get him

to break from their actual programming of run, run, run, run, pass and that that, you know, run past option, that is just, that's just killing people. And it doesn't hurt, too, when you got King Henry, when you start really running the ball on people, that's... Once they start running it, it just, it opens up.

Opens up the play action, open up everything. But, again, you know, you know, they're about to pass him the ball. So that's really one less person you got to cover in the past game. Go ahead, get run heavy on that, run heavy with Lamar, and figure out everything else from there. Yeah. Brow. What's good, coach? bro, you were sweating bullets.

You got that good workout? I got it. I got a good. I got to get me in a thousand, man. Deep on a sled. Well, look, I must go ahead and shout out

to Roy McElroy that won the Masters. Shout out Roy. I thought he was going to lose it. Up. Scotty Sheffler, this is random getting on.

Scotty Sheffler is my favorite golfer right now. Down on Saturday by 12 strokes. Almost came back and won it. That'd have been unbelievable. Shout out to Roy for winning his second gold jacket in a row. Not gold jacket. Green jacket.

Joe, even I know that. My bad. My bad. I was just, the gold jacket got me. So I was thinking about Hall of Fame. Roy McElroy. Back to Backmasters. Roy McElroy?

No, Roy McElroy. Oh, I think I see. We might have somebody. All right, people. My good man. A dude. My good friend. friend, Joe's.

Yes, sir. Who he said he made fumble. We're going to talk about that. Oh, one man, see, dang it. Huh? Huh? What you say? What you say, Joe?

My, my, see his left. Hey, nope. Look here. Look, ladies and gentlemen, he was drafted in 2005. First round pick for the piss. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no grip. A new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid. Lewis Hamilton, Crapicorn, Sun.

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Listen to no grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leveh, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more.

Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin. You related to the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that. That's so funny. Share each day with me each night. So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Kahn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit stick season, and one of the biggest voices in music today. Noah opens up about the pressure that followed his rapid success,

his struggles with mental health and body image, and the fear of starting again after such a defining moment in his career. It's easy to look at somebody and be like, your life must be so sick. Man, you have no clue. Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. I'm just now trying to unwind this idea that I have to be unhealthy physically

or in pain in some emotional way in my life to create good music. If someone says that I did a good job, I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Someone says that I suck. I'm like, I suck. Getting to talk about this is not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistency. in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so much. I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for.

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As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Bergst Dillers. Yes, he was. Two-time pro bowler. Two-tide Super Bowl champion, Stilers, Hall of Honor and Dukty, the best tight-in in Stillers history, one of the most complete tight ends of his era.

Please welcome. Heave. What's up, fellas? How are we doing today? Doing good, brother. Heave, welcome, welcome. How you doing, baby? I'm doing great.

I'm doing great. Hey, you guys are doing great on this show. I enjoy the clips. You guys are doing a couple. Appreciate it. You guys are doing a great job. Appreciate it. What you got behind you may.

It looked like you got two trees and you got to blur it out real good. Yeah, I got a mess back there, so it's all blurred out. I did the best I could on short notice. No, I feel it, brother. It looks perfect. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Where are you at down in, you in VA too, right?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yes. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I'm in northern Virginia. I'm in northern Virginia. I'm in northern Virginia. I'm like Tyson's corner.

Okay. All right, I'm a couple hours away. I saw you on the tip of Virginia. Well, I grew up, yeah, that's where I grew up down in Southwest Virginia. But now we live in Charlottesville, Virginia. Okay. Just a couple hours from you. Oh, not bad.

No, we got a link up for sure. You golf? No. Okay, I was about to say you look like a golfer. I might be Divo, but that's about it. Yeah, he could be me for sure. There ain't, there ain't no feet. That's not even

That hell I could probably lose to like A little kid Yeah, Debo He's too much muscles Too many muscles Dude my golf game Is seriously

Seriously hot garbage brother But seriously hot garbage I wanted to ask you something first Because you know I see you went to UVA And did you went there as a quarterback And ended up switching positions Yep

How did that go? I went to UVA as a quarterback I committed to the coach's name was George Welsh at the time. Okay. And when I committed, they said, you know, we want to bring you in as a quarterback. And other schools that wanted me to do different positions. But I thought, let's give quarterback to try. Coach Welsh retired before I got there.

So then Al Groh took over. Yes. And I stayed at quarterback for like a month or two. I was there. I'll say this. I was there long enough. for me to know I was never going to get on the field at quarterback. That's all I needed to know. So then they're like, hey, Heath, you're a big body. Why don't you try scout, you know,

fill it on the scout team. We only got a couple tight ends. You get some reps and help us out there. So I did that. And then like a month later, they're like, hey, Heath, why don't you actually go to the meetings with the tight ends? Just, you know, just so you know what you're doing. And then after that season, I kind of knew what it should be and fully trained. to tie-in and the rest is history. Oh, no, it all worked out perfectly. That's good stuff. I love that.

Yeah. Joe, were you a quarterback to? No. You played quarterback in high school. Come on. Exactly. I played quarterback all through high school. I thought I was going to go.

Oh, yeah, I said you played defensive back, too. You were a second team. Defense, I play. What? Do you play in safety or corner? Safety, safety. Safety. Okay, see, Todd.

I'm look, me and you, we're on the athletes over here. We play the athletes play. Where the athletes play. Yes. Debo, did you play quarterback too in high school? I played quarterback too in high school. No, Debo. Did you play quarterback too?

No, bro, I wasn't no quarterback, man. I play running. I play running back and linebacker. I'm running through. No, for sure. He didn't play the athlete position, right, Joe? No, not at all. I did that same thing.

Quarterback, quarterback's where I played at. All they did was hand the ball to me. Oh, okay. See, no, I was giving you a good. We was play action pass and debo, Todd. That's what we was doing. Yeah. Nah, no, see, we were doing triple option and all that, you know.

Quarterback ain't, hell, I don't know if he was. He passed a little bit. No, wow. When, yeah, when I realized how hard it was to call the plays and send guys in motion and then remember what to say for the snap count, I said, this might be too much for me. I can't do this. Could you throw? Could you actually throw the Rocky?

He broke records in high school. A little bit, a little bit. Man, Todd, don't. Don't do that. I was a, Debo, I was the emer, I was, why is you calling him Todd, man? His name is Heath. Heath.

Hey, man, take off that half Steelers jersey, man. You know, get out of here, man. That's Heath, man. No, with the Steelers after, after Heinz left, I was the emergency quarterback, like, if we only dressed two quarterbacks, then I was a number three guy.

Oh. Okay. So I would get one. You got high. Yeah. Every week I would get one rep on Friday. It would be a handoff to the right, usually. Brough, you came in what, 2005?

Yeah. 2005, 2000. You got, oh, you got two of them things, too, dude. Yes, he does. Yeah. What stands out to you when you think back to those Super Bowl runs? Like, you know, what did those teams have in common versus what, you know, what it look like towards the end?

I think probably just the camaraderie and maybe the selflessness as a whole as a whole team. Like we were truly a team and nobody really cared who got the credit. And in both cases, we got hot at the end of the year. And I think once we got into the playoffs both years, there was a feeling that maybe we all had that I don't think anybody can beat us if we play our game. and even the last year that we lost in the Super Bowl to Green Bay, you kind of get that feeling like nobody's going to stop us. I guess that's why that one was just hard to swallow because we came up a little bit short.

Yeah, but no, the camaraderie, and I think, you know, true teams, because especially later, I think offensively, we had some teams that were loaded with talent. Maybe defensively we were better earlier on, but, you know, we had some, some talented guys that I played with later in my career, but we just didn't, couldn't get it going at the right time for whatever reason. Yeah, like, especially, you know, like I said,

when you go back to like those, you know, that basically all the way up until like that five to 12 range, something like that, two to 12 range, 2002 to 12 range. Like, dude, it was, you damn there spent more time with guys, you know,

on the team outside than you did your family. You know what I'm saying? It was like, okay, we go do this over here, we're going to do that over there. And everything was kind of like, you know, mixed together with watching film, eating, celebrating, playing some cars, doing this and that, getting body work, getting treatment, all the other stuff. Well, for us on the defensive side, I don't know how y'all did it on the offensive side,

but for us, like, it was, you know, everything was just mushed and mixed together. Yeah, and you guys, you know, I'm an offensive player, but we were a defensive led team through all those years. I mean, we had one of the best defenses in the league. And as offensive guys, we knew that. And we were, every day in practice was harder than the game. You know, when you got to the game on Sundays after you practice or you have to be a training camp against those guys.

That's good on good. Yeah. So when we got through training camp, we knew we were prepared for any defense, anything a defense could throw at us. And it was going to be easier than what we had just faced. So it's just like that whole iron sharpening iron. and the defense being the best group on the team, the way they cared about each other,

the selflessness they played with, that trickled down to the whole team. And offensively, we had guys like Heinz who was throwing his body around. Oh, yeah. No job, too small. I mean, when your best players play like that, everybody else just falls in line.

And I think that made for some special teams back in the day. Speaking to opponents, Who was the most difficult for you to block? Who was it that you went against that was, you know, hard to block? Because you was a good, you was a real good, you know, blocking tightness. He could catch the ball. Both. The guys who gave me the most trouble, I mean, we played Terrell Suggs a lot in Baltimore

twice a year, most times, three times a year. He gave me a lot of trouble because he could do, he wasn't a, he could do anything. He could beat you with speed. He was a massive dude. So he was strong and powerful. And he was also savvy, like above the neck. He wasn't going to do the same thing and play cookie cutter within the defense every snap. Like he could, you know, he knew formations.

He could call out plays. Even if he was supposed to have contain and the balls running away, he might dip you inside. So he's giving you a different look every time, which made, you know, I like to be prepared above the neck. I feel like that helped me, but he was a little bit unorthodox where you didn't really know what he was going to do based on their alignment. And when you combine that with all of his talent and physical skills, he was a problem for sure. Yeah.

So look, this is the thing, too. You and Big Ben Ben said that you were his favorite receiver of all time, which makes complete sense because you were always on the same page. Was that something that you, like, gradually just started working on? Or did it take time? Or was that something like, you all instantly just, you knew you kind of, like, felt like you knew where he wanted you to be and you knew where he wanted you to be. and you knew where he wanted you to be. I think maybe it took a little bit of time, but a lot of it was just natural.

I think the fact that maybe were I did play quarterback before. Yeah, that makes sense. And I don't know. I grew up playing a ton of sports. So I think Ben grew up playing a ton of sports as well. So we just had that kind of a natural knack and feel for how to play the game, whether it be basketball or whatever, we just kind of played off of each other.

And there was a lot of unspoken stuff. I wish I could say we spent hours in the film room or hours on the field, but it was just kind of a natural thing that worked together. No, for sure. And I think really, because I, like you said, being on the offensive side of the ball,

playing quarterback, and just kind of feeling, you play all different type of sports, basketball, baseball, saw that. So just being natural and kind of knowing, the field of the game is kind of the same when you,

like, you did, you did a quarterback too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you have your route on a piece of paper that you go,

up and you make a, you know, turn left at 12 yards, but it don't always, you know, Joe, in covering, it don't always look like that when you go to the field and you got to play with it and know the zone and the defense and how to work to get open and when to get open and understand what the quarterback's going through before he might get to you in the progression. So it all works together. And I think that, you know, Ben was a lot of fun to play with in that regard because it was always, you never knew how the play was going to turn out and you would make it as well. I love that.

Yeah, for sure. compared to early Ben, when you first got there, 2005, 2006, 2007 to 2014-15 Ben, what would you say was the greatest progression of, you know, him developing, like, into big men? I think he's just probably just the natural ownership of the offense. When we first got there, or when I first got there early in your career, James, our offensive line was, and we had the bus, we had Deuce Stey, we then had Willie Parker, So we were a running team behind Alan Fannica, Marvell Smith, a lot of guys up front. Kendall Simmons, all those guys, Big Max, Jeff Hardings.

I think three of those guys were in the Pro Bowl when I walked down the hall, like, the first time in the building. And they had the Pro Bowl picture up there was like almost the whole offensive line. Yeah. Jerome. I think it was like four. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of dudes on that line.

So and Ben was a young quarterback. So obviously we ran the ball a lot. We play action past. I think some games we throw it like 15, 20 times a game, and we might win by three or four touchdowns. But then, you know, as we progress, then, you know, Ben gained more ownership of the offense, rightfully so. And, you know, he's changing protections at the line.

He's calling plays at the line. And, you know, they're kind of giving him the reins and the keys to the car, so to speak. And then they surrounded him with a lot of weapons as well. So it was fun to see that progression. Oh yeah, definitely. Like, you know, just me, you know, saying being there since 2002 and just watching, I'm like, yo, like, you know, like you said, we were, we, we, we, early in his career, if we had a point where if we had more than, I think it was like 18 or 20 passes from him, we lost. Like, anything below like 18 and it was like 80-something percent, you know, win, whatever it was. But as you said, like, as he got better, had a better understanding of, you know, what he's looking. at and grabs for the offense, you know, it just flowed through, especially, you know, with him being able to put the ball wherever he, you know, really wanted to and, you know,

extending with his plays. I think a lot of people don't realize that when he was young and he was extending with his plays, it was more of, he might have had a chance to get a pass in there sooner, but he just didn't have time to get to that part. So he extended the play, and that's where it was the, oh, we in backyard football, defense's breakdown, it's spot pass. And that was great for it. Yeah, he could use his athleticism. And then going back, I just thought, like we were talking about the team things,

we were a defensive team. So the fact that if on offense, if we could run the ball and eat the clock and keep our defense fresh and on the sidelines, or when they did take the field to get after the quarterback and to bring their pressure packages and stuff and they were fresh, it was really complimentary football at its best. And, you know, that's the way we played. And then obviously, as Ben got older, he became our best player on the team,

then we built the team around him. And we could put more points on the board at that point. For sure, for sure. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this.

He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriend. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than no grip,

a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F1, including the astrology of the current grid, the story of the sports most consequential driver strike, and plenty of other mishapsed scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent gumster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, it's Nora Jones, and my podcast Playing Along is back with more of my favorite musicians. Check out my newest episode with Josh Grobin. You related to the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that. That's so funny. Share each day with me. each morning Listen to Nora Jones

is playing along on the Iheart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Hey I'm Jay Shetty host of the On Purpose podcast My latest episode is with Noah Kahn The singer-songwriter

Behind the Multi-Platinum Global Hit Stick Season And one of the biggest voices in music today Talking about the mental illness stuff It used to be this thing that I was ashamed of Getting to talk about this

It's not common for me. Right now, I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Ellen's, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the... same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Nanchini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.