Nightcap - Nightcap - Hour 1: Justin Tucker allegations, Jerry Jones is cheap, Aikman’s ridiculous comments

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson react to the report that several massage therapists have accused Baltimore Ravens kicker Justin Tucker of inappropriate behavior during massage sessions. Later, Unc and Ocho discuss Jerry Jones reportedly didn’t want to give Mike McCarthy a 5-year contract, Troy Aikman saying the NFL owes it to the fans who gamble on football to make sure the refs make the right calls and much more!03:20 - Intro07:20 - Tucker misconduct allegations19:10 - Mike McCarthy and Cowboys’ contract37:15 - Bills GM on Josh Allen’s fourth down51:00 - Troy Aikman wants correct calls for gamblers58:20 - Matthew Stafford will return to Rams01:03:18 - Cam Newton will not give up MVP(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company.

The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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5G speed not available in all areas. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of Nightcap, presented to you by Boost Mobile. I am Ocho, the Liberty City legend, and he is Uncle Shannon Sharp. How was that? How was that? How was that? Yeah. Thank you, guys. Welcome to another episode of Nightcap brought to you by Boost Mobile.

Visit your nearest Boost Mobile store or BoostMobile.com to join the nationwide 5G network today. Y'all know me. I'm your favorite Uncle Shannon Sharp, that guy, the Liberty City legend, the Bengal Ring of Fame honoree, the pro bow legend, the bingo ring of fame honoree, the pro bowl of the all pro. That's Chad Ochocinco Johnson. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button.

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Chiefs fans, Eagle fans, and all NFL fans, and hey, just fans of nightcap. Tickets for the Super Bowl show in New Orleans. They're on sale now. The link is pinned at the top of the chat. The VIP meet and greet is officially sold out, but there's still plenty of tickets left to attend the big show. They beware the six in New Orleans at the Mahalia Jackson theater.

We've got big guests coming on coach prime master P flavor blade. Just to name a few. We've got other NFL players that will stop by. Hopefully we'll get some of the Hall of Fame guys that would just be inducted that night. So hopefully, we'll reach out to those guys that's on the list. We'll know, I think, in the coming days who they are. And so hopefully, we'll have those guys stop by as well. But I can't wait to see Coach Prime.

We know Coach Prime is a fan favorite. But Master P and Flavor Flay. Both Nightcap and Club Shea Shea were both nominated for NAACP Image Awards. Nightcap was nominated Outstanding Podcast, Art, Sports, and Entertainment. Club Shea Shea was nominated Outstanding Podcast, Society and Culture. And myself was nominated for Entertainer of the Year, the NAACP Image Award. Please go vote for you guys, Uncle Ocho and myself, because I was nominated for the Entertainer of the Year. Please go vote.

The link is pinned in our social bios. Well, Ocho, let's get off. Not kind of the way I wanted to start it, but here we go. What's wrong? Six massage therapists have accused Raven kicker Justin Tucker of inappropriate behavior during massage sessions. In the article published by the Baltimore Banner, the incidents allegedly took place between 2012-2016 in the Baltimore area. Tucker has denied allegations which span his first five seasons in the NFL. The league said today they're looking into the matter.

Hmm. Well, listen, obviously when that many accusers come forward, when all of them have somewhat of the same story, where there's smoke, there's fire, huh? Where there's smoke, there's fire. And one of the things that that i don't like and obviously they they do it for their own reasons um but waiting so long if they if it if the issues happened that long ago i'm not sure why we waited this long for

it to come out uh i think maybe he probably knew it was the issues were going to arise or come to a head maybe that's why his performance was was kind of lacking this year especially from a performance uh standpoint and justin tucker but i hope the nfl does their due justice in finding what justin tucker did wrong um and whatever it may be and and hopefully these young ladies can find some sort of peace and enclosure in uh in in this situation. It's unfortunate. Yeah. Look, I'm going to be like I was when the, if you guys remember when I was on Undisputed and we talked about this, about Deshaun Watson, sometimes the mere mention of impropriety

is enough to sway public opinion of said individual. One, but the gravity, I think, is what, five or six of these women, I'm assuming they're women, that's making these allegations. At this point in time, that's all there are. Allegations aren't facts, but they are allegations. They've been alleged that he's been inappropriate at some point in time. I was reading something. Maybe he rubs his genitalia. Maybe there's some inappropriate touching.

Also, I think the report said that he had been banned from several massage therapists or they chose not to work with him anymore. As you mentioned earlier, is that one, two, three, four, five, and they're alleging very similar allegations. And that's where the seemingly the NFL is going to have to do their due diligence and to make sure they, they do a thorough sweep of this. For me, um, I think it's only fair that Justin Tucker at this point in time deserves, uh, his innocence.

He deserves to be heard. Uh, I don't know if it's going to be civilly. I don't know if it's be criminally, but I think he deserves whatever, whatever. Court decides to hear this right now. These are just allegations. Oh,

Joe, none of these women have said, okay, we're going to file a civil civil case or we're, or the investigation has led to anything criminal. So we let's let's let's just let it play out obviously the nfl is going to have to do their due diligence and to make sure everything um it's not a good look this is not something the nfl takes very kindly to

obviously uh we as a society need to do a a better job of holding people accountable when things like this, if it's to be proven. But I think Justin Tucker deserved to have his day in court, be it civil court or criminal court. I'm not willing to go and say, oh, yes, it's fat, but it doesn't look good. It's not a good look anytime someone alleges something like this. But I do believe Justin Tucker deserved to have a level of innocence until it's proven the other way, whether it's criminal or civil. It's just tough, Coachell, when it's so many. Now, it could be all of it. Maybe because a lot of times, you know, maybe I don't know.

But this is what I do know. Four or five women have alleged that Justin Tucker at some point in time between the year, the 2012 and 2016, was inappropriate. That's what we know. Anything after that is speculation at this point. Right. That's a pattern too, if you think about it. Now, when you have a problem, there's an issue with one person, that's one thing.

Now, their person deserves their true innocence until proven guilty. Now, if you have a pattern of a figure and they're all coming from different people, now that's different. That's different. Everybody can't be lying.

Everybody can't be lying. So there's an issue that lies there despite you saying, you know, he needs to have his innocence until facts are proven. But if it's happening multiple times

and multiple people all have the same story, everybody can't be lying. Everybody can't be in cahoots at the same time. Like I said, I just like, I want it to play out, whatever transpires, give him his day in court, be it civil or criminal,

let an investigation take place. I say now that it's out, who knows if there was an investigation that was taking place. Like you said, maybe that has something to do with the miscues that he had this year. Maybe this has been brewing. Maybe the investigation, they had talked to him at some point in time. I think Justin Tucker is married now, has a kid.

I don't feel very comfortable saying, uh, uh, no, it's there for certain. Oh, that's the case. But I think, um, this is what says several therapists said Tucker's behavior was so egregious that they ended his sessions early or refused to work with him again. And at two spas management said they banned him from returning. After receiving a tip on January 9th, the banner began investigating and spoke to six massage therapists who recounted troubling firsthand experiences with Tucker from 2012 to 2016.

The women said they had waited and wanted to tell, the women said they had long waited to tell their stories. And to your point, a lot of times when you have a behavior or a pattern of behavior, and we see this a lot of times, we saw what happened with the Weinstein case. And a lot of times, Ocho, what happens is that with one woman, it gives other women the courage to come forward

because sometimes it's like they don't want to feel alone. They don't feel because everybody's going to say this or yada, yada, yada. But now you have one or you have two or you have 10, you have 15, you have 20. A lot of times people get courage in a group. They don't want to be isolated. They don't want to stand alone. And so obviously this, this,, the Baltimore Banner, said they had been working on this story. They received a tip. They had been working on this story and they reached out and the women started recounting what had happened. Going by what the report says, we don't know. I'm just not. So don't say what Shannon said is no. Shannon is commenting on what is being reported, that they don't know. I'm just not. So don't say what Shannon said is no. Shannon is commenting

on what is being reported, that they did their investigation. They received a tip that at some point in time, Justin Tucker, between the years 2012 and 2016, had been inappropriate. And I guess they reached out to those facilities where he attended. And some of the women recounted the international, a very uncomfortable interaction with Justin Tucker. That's it. That's what we know at this point in time, Mocho. Does it look good on the surface? No. But I think, man, this is such a. You know, when you're dealing with sexual assault, that's a that's a. That's a very, very, very, very very very serious allegation yeah and like you said it's just not one it's multiple women recounting an interaction a very uncomfortable a very inappropriate

interaction with justin tucker so i think the thing now ocho is okay nfl um or the baltimore He said, okay, NFL, is law enforcement involved now? The NFL says, okay, we're going to do our due diligence. What does the Baltimore Ravens do moving forward? So there's a lot of moving parts at play here. The thing that we know, Justin Tucker, the all-world kicker for the Baltimore Ravens, is being alleged that he at some point in time in a four or five year span was inappropriate doing a massage, doing a massage sessions on multiple occasions. What's been reported at two spas management said they banned him from returning. Several therapists said that Tucker's behavior was so egregious that they ended his sessions early or refused to work with him again. That's what's being reported.

That's not Uncle and Ocho making these allegations up. Uncle and Ocho are responding to what's being alleged against Justin Tucker. So it's a tough situation, Ocho. At some point in time, I'm sure we're going to get more information. You and I have a better opportunity to expand or like, hey, this was all to do about nothing. Or, man, this doesn't look good. But I think it's only fair.

It's only fair, Ocho, that that you and i we talked about it just like um when you came when you and i came on a lot of the deshaun stuff had already died down it had happened he had moved to cleveland x y and z but i think it's only fair that we give this the coverage had you and i been on the air you and I would have had an obligation because we do talk sports. We do football. It's kind of our bread and butter. I think we would have had an obligation to say something.

No guilt, no innocence, not this. As a matter of fact, all X, Y, and Z. But to have some conversation on a surface level and then once more information comes out, we can do a deeper, deeper dive. Yeah. Listen. Once more information comes out, we can do a deeper, deeper dive. Yeah. Listen, just from what you read, I mean, you know what the play is. I'm going to leave it at that, you know?

All right. Well, we're going to leave it at that. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain.

This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people.

Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain.

I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode,

I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets.

Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second.

I'm going to ask Attorney General... I'm Leon Nafok, co-creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran-Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mike McCarthy's tenure with the Dallas Cowboys came to an end, in part because he couldn't agree to turn on the new contract. But it hadn't been clear until now exactly what the difference was between the two sides. Per ESPN's Todd Archer, Jerry Jones didn't waver on the offer over three years

while McCarthy was seeking a five-year deal. Jerry's actions and some of his comments seem to suggest he's not interested in playing a top-tier market money or head coach. He didn't make things any better by saying that Brian Schottenheimer introductory press conference as the new Cowboys head coach. That was a bigger risk as you can take. No, no. Schottenheimer was able to negotiate a four year deal from Jones to get the job. But the question is, Ocho, here is the question.

Years, for me, is unimportant. Money what matter. Right. Okay, Mike McCarthy wanted a five-year deal. Jerry wanted to give him a three-year deal. But in the process of the three-year deal, how much is the money worth? If I get a five, Ocho, if you say, well, Shannon, I'll give you a five-year deal, but I'm only going to give you three and a half million a year, or I'll give you

a three-year deal considering Mike McCarthy is going to want somewhere between $7 and $10 million. Jerry doesn't want to go there. So he split the difference with Brian Schottenheimer. But even in the four-year deal, he probably paid less than what he's going to give Mike McCarthy in a three-year deal. Because like he said, there's risk involved. Anytime there's risk involved, Ocho, what? I got to mitigate some of that risk financially. What do you think?

Obviously, I don't think you want to mitigate the risk with the person being the leader of men, not the head coach. That's where you want to mitigate the risk. If you want to mitigate the risk, you person being the leader of men not the head coach that's where you want to mitigate the risk if you want to mitigate the risk you do in the other positions you already mitigated the shit when derrick henry should have been there in the first place the risk you need to take you're not taking and the risk you need to take you're not taking either especially with the head with the head coach yes obviously what you're telling me is you don't believe in me anytime you don't want to play anytime you don't want to play a player what is that telling me is you don't believe in me. Anytime you don't want to play a player, what is that telling that player? You know, we don't see value in you.

Okay, you don't want to play Mike McCarthy. What are you telling Mike McCarthy? He wants a five-year deal. You say no. No. He wants a five-year deal. You say a three-year deal. So you want to underbind a man man basically let him know you feel the same way

other owners feel about certain players that they don't see value or feel that they can get the job done because if you felt mike mccarthy get the job done you want what three four five it don't matter what you want here matter of fact we're gonna give you a blank check do what you need to do that's basically letting me know know Jerry doesn't even feel confident enough about his team regards to who he brings in there. I ain't paying him anyway because I don't think we have a team

adequate enough to compete at a level where I need to be paying the coach top dollar. Well, he doesn't feel he needs to pay top dollar. Why? Because he's the cowboy. It's the cowboys. But that's another problem. Well, that's always been the problem.

If you go back and study it, Ocho, everybody is saying, and Jerry is saying, he doesn't feel it should be, you should be, you should give him a discount just like he believes all the players should give him a discount.

Why? Because that's the Dallas Cowboys. That's how he feels. He's made that abundantly clear it's not working huh you can't you can't you can't live on the past huh I mean Jerry Jones is basically Al Bundy Jerry Jones is basically Al Bundy Hulk High School I've scored three touchdowns in one game that's all it is You won Super Bowls back in the 90s. It's 2025.

We're still living off what you did all the way back then. All the way back then. Jerry Jones is basically Al Bundy. All over again. In reality. I feel sorry for the fans. I feel sorry for the players. I feel sorry for the players. It's not fair.

Change comes about two different ways. Someone wants to change or someone is forced to change. Well, you're not forcing him. That ain't happening. You're not forcing him to do nothing him that ain't happening you're not forcing no one to do not that ain't happening oh joe why would i change anything and i'm still the most profitable franchise in the nfl because you want to win you want to win what do i what if i get if i win do am i gonna get more so i'm making 300 million now you tell me if i win i'm gonna win get 400 million absolutely Absolutely. Everything increased.

If your brand is already what your brand is and you're not winning, imagine what happens if you do win. Let me ask you a question. Are the Chiefs winning, getting 400 million for winning? No. So Jerry doesn't see... Even with the winning,

even with the winning, the Chiefs brand will never be anything like the Cowboys. Historically, never. They can win 10. The Cowboys won't. And guess who else knows that? Jerry. So he says,

even if I don't win, my brand still gonna be 10 times bigger than y'all's. I see what you mean. I see what you mean. But I'm looking at it from a different perspective. If I what you mean. I see what you mean. But I'm looking at it from a different perspective. If I'm Jerry Jones, I'm talking about me. Now, hell,

you let me own the goddamn Dallas Cowboys. I'm going to be operating and copying everything I see Jeffrey Lurie do. Everything I see Harry Roseman do. I'm paying attention. This is a copycat league

when it comes to head coaches taking plays from other teams when they when they get ready to play a team and they see things that worked on them okay I'm see how I see how how Roseman does this okay I see how he gets these acquisitions I see how he drafts so I'm a copycat that and put together put together my own team getting the right pieces understanding what I need what works for works for what. Okay, this fits here. Okay, that fits here. But why not do that instead of worrying about a brand?

And just because your brand is strong, historically strong, and will always be strong, how about be the businessman that you are and find ways to continue making more money, even more than you're making now? But here's the thing, Ocho. If I pay top dollar, that comes out of... Because what I want to do is I want to decrease cost

in any business. The objective is to decrease cost and increase profitability. That's it. I want to spend less while making more. That doesn't work in football, huh? That doesn't work in football?

You know what's the insane thing about winning? It happens every so often in baseball. You know that, right? Yes. Every so often, for some reason, the team that has... You get the Kansas City Royals. Bingo. Or you get a team like the Marlins.

Back then in 97. And I think in 2003 also. So you'll get a team, Ocho, you'll get a team, like you said, the A's going to the playoffs where they spend very little. But in business,

cost, profit margins. Right. I need cost to be here. I need profit to be up there. Ocho, if I'm paying $10, $15 million for a head coach, I need cost to be here. I need profit to be up there. Also, if I'm paying 10, $15 million for a head coach, then I got to have all these other coaches.

Remember it's reported that Jerry wanted to cut some of the coaching staff because I want profit margins to be high. That's how businesses operate. Jerry. And you would think, man, but here's the thing you want to like, I want to be in a situation where I can win a championship.

Jerry has foregone that. Jerry does not want to win a championship. He does. Let me take that back. Jerry wants to win, but I want to win my way. See, I would rather lose my way than win somebody else's. Right. You see, Ocho?

So that's what Jerry is with his thinking. He's like, Ocho, understand. Why pay a coach $10 million, $15 million, when I can pay one $5 million, because I know there's only one of 32. He's very fortunate to have this opportunity. I'm going to make 300 million whether I got a $5 million coach

or I got a $20 million coach. That does not change. Jerry Jones is operating with outdated software in a new era and a new age. Yes. Everybody else, everybody else on iPhones and Jerry using the beep age. Yes. Everybody else, everybody else on iPhones

and Jerry using the beeper. Yeah. Everybody else using the Android in the NFL. All the other owners using the Android. You mean the iPhone? I'm just saying

I'm an Android iPhone. I was using another analogy. Okay. Jerry using the sidekick. Yeah. Outdated. Everything he's a sidekick. Yeah. Outdated. Everything he's doing is outdated. Yes.

And the results are showing up year in and year out. Matter of fact, the results have been the same for the past, what, 27, 37 years. Oh, Joe. Look at the business model

with Chick-fil-A. Whether they're in a stadium, whether they're in an airport, what is the one thing that happens? They're closed on Sunday. They don't lose any more business. People are like, well, if y'all not going to open on Sunday, I ain't going to come on Saturday. Honestly, shouldn't nobody be eating Chick-fil-A anyway.

I don't know what they should be eating, but I'm just trying to give you, I'm just trying to give you an example. So Jerry is saying, ah, uh-uh, uh-uh. Jerry wants to win his way. I would rather lose my way than win someone else's. How many times we see that? Yeah. You see that in a relationship. You know what you need to do to save it.

Nah, but somebody else recommended that. That's not my original idea. That's not my part. So since I didn't come up with it, to hell with it. That's what Jerry is saying. Jerry felt this way. Everybody knows it.

Jerry even knows it. That's why he fired Jimmy. Can't have somebody getting all this credit like he said he bought this occupation can't tell me how to do how you gonna pay all that money for a house if somebody tell you

if you stack boxes up in your house that's my ish how you gonna tell me come on Ocho take the trash out come on Ocho don't wear your shoes tell me, come on, Ocho, take the trash out. Come on, Ocho, don't wear your shoes in the house. Come on, Ocho, clean the dishes out of the sink. Come on, Ocho, now you know better. It's going to be like, who took those hits?

Who's working all these jobs? Who's running from pillar to pole? It's you. And you think you're going to tell me? So Jerry said, who bought this team? Who bought this? That's how he thinks.

And unfortunately, he's not going to win because of it. Because he thinks he knows. See, Jerry is under the premise he's the smartest guy in the room. And nobody's going to tell him.

If he's the smartest guy in the room, then he's in the wrong room. Yeah. He's in the wrong room. I built the room, though, Ocho. I built the room, Ocho. That was a good one. And that's the thing. You and I, I'm under the operation.

I can go somewhere. Hey, I don't want to be the smartest guy. I need somebody to be able to protect my blind spots. I don't know how you operate a car with no mirrors. There's one rear view side. There's a reason. They protect your blind spots. Because if you have to do this all the time,

you might slam in the back of somebody. But if you look and take a quick glance, or you look at the side, damn, somebody can't get over there right now. Because now they got the sensors you see in your mirror. Oh, can't do that. Somebody's right there. But that's not how Jerry operates.

Jerry's had monetary success. When Jerry purchased this team, Ocho, he wasn't a billionaire. No. Now, he's many, many times over that. Man, Ocho, man, it's hard to tell somebody something

different when they've had success doing it that way. Right. How you tell somebody, how you tell somebody, girl, you need to start a young lady making 300,000 a year. Dan exotic dancer or somebody making two, $3 million a year.

Only fans. How you, how you give them a stop. What's up? It's like a drug. Huh? Yeah, you're right. That life good.

That's exactly right. So you have a problem with him not paying or him trying to always undermine his coaches. What's Ochoa's biggest issue with Jerry Jones? Just undermining. Undermining. Obviously, when it's time to play the players, you already play the players late.

You play them late. They miss training camp. They miss minicamp. They always come in two weeks before the season to get ready to start. Fortunately enough, Cee Lamb didn't get hurt until later on in the season when it was time for Dak to get paid. He waited for Dak. When it was time for Dak to get paid. He waited for Dak. When it was time for Ezekiel Elliott to get paid, he and Cabo, working out in Cabo in

the goddamn sand instead of being in training camp, getting ready for the season with his teammates. Everything is always long and drawn out to keep the attention focused on the Cowboys. If you're serious about winning, if you're serious about competing, especially for a Lombardi trophy, which you haven't shown in, what, 30-some years? When have a long it's been. And why do you think Michael Parsons came out and said what he said in the middle of the season or maybe sometime toward the end of the season?

Let's get us, let's get, sum to the fact of getting paid early so I can get this thing done. Let's get it done so I can be at everything. That's letting you know. The players shouldn't have to say that. The players shouldn't have to be the ones saying that. You should be the one to take on this and want to have everybody in if you're serious about competing.

Or trying to win. Or changing and making sure this season coming up doesn't look like last season. I mean, that's all. And then, you know, undermining the coaches. It's ridiculous. I want him to run the business. I want him to make his money. But the Cowboys fans, they deserve it.

The players deserve it. For him to run it like the Hunts. For him to run that show like the Roonies. For him to run that show like who owns the Hunts the Roonies the Roonies own the Steelers oh okay hold on

like Howie Jeffrey Lurie owns the Eagles but Howie Roseman, Ocho do people realize do you see how they run that ship over there, man? Think about it. They have been three years. How many times has Jalen heard?

Two times. They've been to the Super Bowl twice in three years. Twice in three years, huh? Mm-hmm. Twice in three years. Look at how they navigate and operate everything. Mm-hmm. Getting the players they need. Understanding.

Matter of fact, the team is young. The team was old the first time they went to the Super Bowl. It looked like almost everybody's gone. Almost everybody's gone. The defense is completely revamped. And they're right back again. They're right back again. For a reason.

Success, it starts at the top. And it trickles on down. It starts with Jerry. Until he operates, it's going to always be the same. But Jerry can't admit when he's wrong. You see,

you remember when Chip Kelly came? Jeffrey Lurie demoted Howie Roseman, turned everything over to Chip. Couple of years, he gets rid of Chip, bring Howie Roseman back, admitting he made a mistake. Yeah. Now, look at it. Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis, N'Kobe Dean,

Will, the defensive end from Georgia, Saquon, drafting Jalen Hurts when you just gave all that money to Carson Wentz, Devontae Smith, A.J. Brown, Reeside Lane Johnson, Landon Dixon, Ma Lata.

That's not an accident, Ocho. They let Gardner Johnson go. They bring him back. Cooper to John, Mitchell, Blankenship. That's not an accident. Jerry never admit he's wrong. He'll never admit that he was wrong in firing Jimmy. Never.

But it is what it is. Now, Bill's general manager, Brandon Bean, says he still believes Josh Allen converted on fourth down and nothing has changed his mind, even after speaking with the league. Let's take a listen to the sound. It's frustrating.

You know, there's only so much I can say. You know, I don't, you know, we work with the league to try to get clarity. And I'll give them credit. They've taken our calls. They've sent video and things like that. I just, you know, I wish, you know, if you're talking about like the fourth down play, that was, you know, I feel like, you know, he got that.

And I still feel like he got that. And I still feel like he got that. I felt that in the moment. And nothing has changed my mind on that. Ocho. Yes, sir. Would this be the play? At some point in time, the Bills are going to have to move on. Just like they moved on from wide right

in that first Super Bowl. At some point, there's nothing the league can do. They didn't feel he got it. Now everybody want to come out of all this technology and all of this. Look, they keep making rules for the Bills. I remember when Patrick Mahomes did not touch the football in overtime, they didn't change the rules. Mm-hmm.

It happened. What about change the play? Hey, Josh, instead of going left, go right. Instead of trying to, Josh, do this, hey, hand the ball out to the running back. Can you do something other than the same play six times? Okay, my bad.

Four times. Right. Remember, you got stopped on the goal line. Remember until they tried it on the goal line. You got stopped. Yeah. You know what's funny? The Bills might be a little off on the stat. Josh Allen, I think he ran it.

Quarterback sneak during the regular season if I'm not mistaken he might have been in the totality for the whole season I could be wrong chat stay with me someone can correct me

in the chat I think they they got all of them Josh Allen quarterback runs scripted runs and got a first down, except two. They only stopped two times. And that was on the NFC Championship game.

That's the two times. Of all times when you get stopped, the only team to stop you twice, after having so much success throughout the entire end of the season, nobody was able to stop you, the two times you get stopped is a goddamn Kansas City Chiefs and the most important goddamn game. Mm-hmm. And he would have had the first down if the ball wasn't at his chest. Yes.

At his chest, because if he extended it, oh, that buddy knocking that ball out. For sure. He couldn't extend it because he's in the trenches. Right. You weren't past the stick. He wasn't past the stick. They showed every angle they could possibly see. They did every angle.

He wasn't past it. Right. But he couldn't. If he was able to extend the ball, he would have had it. But he couldn't. Because, you know, if he put it out, that ball was coming out. Absolutely. That was all in damn land right there.

And the call on the field, the official, the mark that they went with, he marked him short. Now, had he given him the first down, there was nothing to indicate he didn't have it. I don't know. And that's the thing. More times than not, they go with it unless it's egregious. People are like, well, the guy on the far side, the guy, really?

All those bodies. He can't see where that ball is. The guy that's right here on the side, Joe. Oh, Joe, he looking right down the line. He looking. Yeah. Look at you like this right down the barrel. He's looking. Yeah. Looking just like this right down the barrel. You know what I can say?

What's that? I'm thinking about this. I think about the 90s, right? Think about the Bulls. You think about the Celtics. Think about the Lakers. Think about the run the New York Yankees had.

You think about the run Tom Brady and Bill Belichick had. And that AFC, right now, the Chiefs are going to always be in contention. But at what point will Lamar, Joe Burrow,

or Josh Allen have their Roethlisberger moment? Or their Joe Flacco moment? You get where I'm going with this? Yeah. Because it was always dominated by Brady. Yes.

But in those years, oh shit, Flacco finally got one. Oh shit, Ben Roethlisberger finally got one. At some point in the next decade, Josh Allen's going to win a Super Bowl. At some point, Joe Burrow's going to win a Super Bowl. At some point, Joe Burrow's going to win a Super Bowl. At some point, I don't know when, when you slay the beast that is the Kansas City Chiefs, Lamar Jackson will get a Super Bowl. And just at what point in what year will it happen?

Because the Chiefs, Andy Reid, and Pat Mahomes ain't going nowhere. And just at what time are they going to have their Ben Roethlisberger or their Joe Flacco moment where this is their year? But if you go back and look at what time are they going to have their Ben Roethlisberger or their Joe Flacco moment where this is their year. But if you go back and look at that, somebody knocked Tom off. Only Joe Flacco beat him.

When Tom lost that, Peyton Manning beat him. When Ben Roethlisberger won him, Jake Plummer knocked that big Ben. So who's got who? Now we saw Joe do it one time. We saw Tom do it, and we saw Joe do it. Normally what happens, more times than not,

they went to, if I'm not mistaken, the Patriots went to 13 AFC title games. That's crazy. They lost four. Baltimore beat them once once Denver beat them twice Andy beat them once so Peyton beat him three times Joe Flacco beat him once

the other nine times they didn't get him yeah so somebody had to knock him off in order for you to get there. Somebody had to do all that stuff to beat a man. You got to beat the man.

Nah, I'll beat the man to beat the man if I need to. Damn that. Go ahead. It's going to be an interesting decade. Patrick Mahomes is only 28, 28 29 if i'm not mistaken i think he's 29 29 he's going to play another decade yes lamar will be there josh allen will be there joe burrow will be there at some point somebody can have to slay the dragon nfc the nfc ain't a nfc it is not quarterback yeah yeah i mean good quarterbacks, but they ain't got no Mahomes.

You know what? They don't have a four-headed muscle like the goddamn AFC. No, for sure. Absolutely not. They have good quarterbacks now. I'm not saying they don't have quarterbacks. I'm saying they don't have the four-headed muscles

like they do in the AFC. True. I don't know. It's going to be an interesting decade, but they're going to get there. Josh Allen's going to get interesting decade. But they're going to get there. Josh Allen's going to get one. Lamar Jackson is going to get one. Joe Burrow's going to get one.

It's just all about when. I don't know when because Mahomes and Andy Reid ain't going nowhere. And what happens every year, you got the draft, you got off-season acquisitions. Every team continues to get better. Well, hell, the same thing happened when Bill and Tom was together. Every other team was also getting better, but as long as that goddamn centerpiece

was always there in place, oh, we're good. That's the Joker. As long as 15 is there, they're going to be good. I don't know. That's tough, man. Yeah?

When you look at it, not a whole lot of guys won I mean Tom in the AFC I mean you gotta think about how many times went

Tom was in the was in the AFC for 20 years 13 times he's in the AFC championship game 13 you know what's funny

again and when we talk about those numbers people look at it and say oh it's Tom Brady or it's the Patriots oh that's normal I don't think people understand how difficult that is yeah I don't think they understand how difficult it is for them to dominate the AFC East continually year in and year out no matter what happened no matter what happened no matter what the Dolphins did no matter what the Jets did, no matter what Buffalo did, they dominated the AFC East every

goddamn year. Yeah. But if you go back and look at it, well, like, think about it. The Patriots, all those years, there was an AFC championship. They didn't win. They lost to Baltimore. They lost to the Broncos. And then they go, and then they lose to the Broncos.

And it's the Patriots and the Patriots. And then, it's been the Chiefs. Yeah. So one of the, either the Patriots, for like maybe 15 years, Ocho, it's either been the Patriots or the Chiefs in the AFC Championship game. One of those two teams have been in the AFC Championship game.

Right. Man, I know it seems like, hey, they're going to win one. They said that same thing about Phillip Rivers. He's going to get one. He's going to get one. He ain't get one.

Mm-mm. A lot of things, man. A lot of things got to go right. It's a long season long injuries you got to avoid the injuries i mean think about it they just got hollywood back uh xavier worthy stepped up when rashid rice went out they lose pacheco but kareem hunt started out in that system was available he comes in. Think about what they drafted left tackle.

Both of them failed. They say, Joe, bro, we know you're all pro left guard. Can you kick out a tackle? He goes to tackle. Boom. Solidifies it. A lot of things got to go with it defense has been solid all year coming up with timely plays sacks batted down balls turnovers and now you get in the office start to churn a little bit ocho do you realize sunday was the first time the Chiefs scored 30 points or more?

Yeah. Yeah. They haven't been the offensive juggernaut we're used to seeing before. They've been very methodical.

They allow you to sleep. What'd they do? Dunking all, dinking and dunking all the way down the field. Ain't that many big plays happening like it was when Tarik was there. Can you get done what you need to get done when you absolutely got to have it?

Have it. They needed 30. They needed 30. They got it. Because that's the markup. I don't care how great your offense is, how great your defense is. If your defense is great can you get off the field can you get a start when you absolutely got to have it if your office is what

you believe it is we scored 30 plus points we led in third down conversion can you get in field goal range can you get a touchdown can you stay on the field when you absolutely have to because if you can't it doesn't matter what you finished in the regular season because we throw all those stats out. Right. Now, you got to have it. And for the most part, when the Chiefs need a play, go back and look at Patrick Mahomes. When he needs a play, the ball is in my hands,

and I need to go get a field goal to tie it, I need a field goal to win it, or I need a goal to win it, or I need a touchdown to tie it, or I need a touchdown to win it. Go check how many times and see he's failed. You're going to be surprised. Oh, yeah. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma,

and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say,

hey, this is my mountain, this is the struggle, this is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear

about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm St Chafkin. We'll take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain.

I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen.

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency.

Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second. I'm going to ask... I'm Leon Nafok, co-creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran-Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal

that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, Joe. Troy Aikman says the NFL owes its fans who gamble on football to make sure the refs make the right call. Not always. who gamble on football to make sure the refs make the right call. Not all of a sudden, right call since money is on the table. Not all of a sudden, Troy want the refs to be perfect.

So now Ocho, since he's away from the game, make the refs be perfect. Troy, were they perfect when you played bro y'all need to stop there's a lot of money that's changing hands with these calls i think we owe it to the fans uh that we get it right and think that we're at the point where sometimes we can so we're gonna get every call right you know what i like that you just said there are technology is so advanced we shouldn't get no damn calls wrong.

Yes, you're right. So what about the holding, what about the holding calls? They got eight. They got two million goddamn cameras in the stadium on game day. Every angle you could think of.

Every angle you could think of. The game's long enough, Ocho. I don't want no four-hour game. So what you gonna get, so you wanna start and make everything viewable? How long do you think the game's going to last? You're right, but I'm just saying.

Think about when they challenge something, Ocho. Think about when you challenge something. How long it take them? They go to commercial. At least they don't get at least three commercials off. Yeah. And now you know what we can do, right?

What? We can put a timer to shorten those goddamn calls or put a timer on the ref. You got this amount of time to go to review it and get back on the field to keep the game going, keep the momentum going. He says, what, what, uh, just think, just thinking about it. We have, I mean, dude, we are so far advanced from a, from, from a,

a tech, a technolog, technolog, wait a minute. Technological. Technical standpoint. Technical standpoint. There should, there should be no, no call should be wrong. Now, obviously from the naked eye at fast speed or fast tempo sometimes the rest can get it wrong sometimes the rest can get it wrong you know sometimes roughing the passes you know and and either will anderson hit on pat mahomes pat you know yeah that's that i don't i don't think that was

i don't think that was rough in the past, huh? You know, that was the chess plate. That was the chess plate. But if we think for one second that every official in every sport is going to get every call right, we're delusional. And guys

and athletes that have played the game, they're delusional because now they're pandering. Troy knows damn well people gambled on the game, they're delusional because now they're pandering. Troy knows damn well people gambled on the games when he played. They didn't get every call right. It's impossible. There's no such thing as we got, guess what? We got every call right in the game.

I guarantee you there are calls that we like, man, that was a very well-officiated game. The NFL can go back and say, you missed that holding call. You missed that tripping. You missed that face mask. It happens. Now, because you know what it is? Now, Josh Allen,

their fan favorite didn't get to go. Patrick Mahomes going again. Now it's an issue. Yeah. I know we had Bills fans here. Y''s the league. Yeah. Yeah. I know we had Bills fans here. Y'all year coming. You ain't got to worry about it.

It's just about win. It's coming. Lamar fans, your year's coming. Bengals fans, we'll be back. It's just a matter of time of win.

Just a matter of time. And another thing also with the refs too long, the refs want to get the calls right. You know, chat. People that are watching, people that too long, the refs want to get the calls right. You know, chat, people that are watching, people that are listening. The refs want to get the call right. Because, you know, as a group, you know why the refs want to get the highest grade possible?

Because when they get to the Super Bowl, ref to Super Bowl, ref playoff game. Bingo. You know, all that, the refs are graded. Yes. They want to work those playoff games. They want to work the Super Bowl game. You know, the better their grades are, as far as it goes from making the right calls

to seeing the right calls, yeah, they get opportunities to make some money in the playoffs. You know? Since those people bet a lot of money, they deserve that these players don't make mistakes, that the quarterback doesn't throw interceptions, that the receivers and running backs and quarterback don't fumble the football,

and the DBs and everybody don't get past in appearance. Since we're going for perfection, why not have the players have perfection? I just hate this pandering because I've seen a lot of people now all of a sudden, oh, poor Josh.

Oh, I feel so bad for him. When they never felt bad for any other quarterback, I ain't hear nobody say, man, I feel so bad for Peyton Manning. I feel so bad for Steve McNair that he just keeps coming up short. And all these guys. Look at Jim Kelly. Went and lost four times. Ain't nobody feel sorry for Jim.

Right. John Elway went and got his eyes beat in. And ain't nobody feel sorry. Now all of a sudden we feeling sorry for Josh Allen. Wow. And now we getting guys, oh, I want to see the NFL. I want to see these Rebs get a call right. So they're going to get every call right.

Hey. Man, stop all that pandering. It's okay. NFL do the best they possibly can. It's not, look, I get this script. They done had the script then. Oh, look at the colors of the Super Bowl. They red.

Bro, they done put these colors in, man. Y'all know how long in advance. Do you understand the undertaking that it takes to do something on the scale of the Super Bowl, Ocho? Do people have any idea? Yeah. Do people understand the idea

of what it takes for us just to do our little show, to go from state, let alone get 50,000 hotel rooms. Get the teams. Point A to point B.

Man, they need to stop this, man. I just hate this pandering. I just hate this pity party for Josh Allen. It's happened. Josh Allen, if Josh Allen don't win, ain't nobody say, oh, I feel sorry for Dan Marino. Who feels sorry for

Dan? Troy, I've never heard Troy, but they need to get them calls right when you beating the hell out of Jim Kelly in them Super Bowls. But they need to stop this. I hate this pandering. Have they missed calls? They make it seem like now, Ocho,

this and this game was the only time officiating somebody missed a call. Yeah. I hate that. They missed calls before. Go back and look at this thing. Mayor Renfro, he caught a touchdown against the Steelers.

He got both feet in. They said no. The Steelers wouldn't a touchdown against the Steelers. He got both feet in. They said no. The Steelers wouldn't have been to the Super Bowl. Man, let me move on. Because the more I think about it, the more upset I get. The L.A. Rams faced several questions in their roster for 2025 season, including whether Matthew Stafford

will return for his 17th season. After the Rams' playoff loss to the Eagles, Stafford said that he would take some time to think about his future. Well, it didn't take long. According to Ian Rappaport, Stafford has told the Rams he's planning on returning next season.

Who's surprised by this? Stafford is due to make $27 million. He's going to want more than $27 million. He's going to want a contract extension. And he deserves it he's earned it I can't even argue that I can't even argue the fact is there a better option than Matthew Stafford right now

as a backup? No absolutely not so him deserving? Yes I'm with you on that two year three year we'll be talking about what kind of money we're looking at well he's scheduled to make 27 million what's the going rate you know to go and raise 50 plus okay whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa 50 plus i'm saying that's the going rate i know it's the going rate, but all the staff? This is 17

season. He came out early, so he's probably what, 36, 37? You paying a 37-year-old quarterback 57 million? I'll give him I'll give him three years. I'll give him I'll give him three years I'll give him

I'll give him three years uh a hundred and two I'll give him forty okay now that's feasible that's that's feasible

doesn't put it doesn't put us in salary cap hell mm-mm you know if anything obviously him asking or giving fifty million that that

that messes up thing for Kubica who is is going to have to take a pay cut. Or move on. Then you got one more year. You got one more year proving the cool is up. Yeah. You got to see about him. Then you got to see about that goddamn Verge. You got to see about Verge.

Oh, you got to play the time with Verge. You got at least, you got two more years with Verge. Oh, this is rookie year. That's right. You have a rookie year. And the otherst. Oh, this is rookie year. That's right. Rookie year. And the other guy on the other side is rookie. But them boys nice. Oh, for sure.

Oh, them boys nice. Oh. But I'm not surprised, Ocho. He's playing too well. I mean, it's not like he was struggling. I mean, you look at the game. The game against the Eagles, he threw the ball,

and that weather, he threw for over 300. In the snow. In the snow. And had they not turned the ball over as much as they did, they didn't give Philly credit. Philly does a great job

of getting the ball out. They do a great job of punching it. Clearly, they practice that. Yes, but I'm not like, the man's still playing at a very high level. That man ain't walking away from

that kind of money, Ocho. No, absolutely not. And they're winning. It's a lot easier to walk with Ocho even when the money's on the table when you lose it. Yeah. Hell, yeah. We see a guy complaining right now about not winning.

And he won the highest paid receiver in the NFL, A.J. Ocho. Oh, yeah. Yeah, staff will be all, hell, they almost won that game. If he hadn't threw that ball wide to Pugna Kua at the end yep

he could do it wide out of bounds he didn't give him a chance 100% of the balls that's thrown out of bounds are incomplete 100% though Mocho and on form down

who cares if it's intercepted give a guy a chance gotta give him a chance damn gotta give him a chance. Damn! Got to give him a chance. As a matter of fact, not to be rude, but the ball would have been complete because the DB was in position trying to make sure Puka didn't get in front of him or didn't get behind him.

Yeah. Like I said, give your guy an opportunity. I always got upset, Ocho, when guys throw the ball out of bounds. Okay, you're going for it on fourth down, or you're going for it last play of the game. Why are you throwing it out of bounds? Who cares if you get an interception? Just like I hated guys with checking the ball down on the Hail Mary

right before the half, Ocho, because they didn't want to mess up the completion percentage. Man, throw the damn ball in the end zone. Give him a chance. The hell you checking it down for? Like that man going to break 72 tackles and go 55 yards. Man, throw the damn ball. Man, Ocho, I get so bad when I see guys check the ball down

because they don't want to mess up the completion percentage or don't want to throw an interception. Man, throw that damn ball in the end zone. That's funny. Ocho, even though most NFL players would consider a Super Bowl to be the ultimate prize in sports, it doesn't mean all of them

would give up their individual achievements if it meant they could hold the Lombardi trophy. One example, Cam Newton. Cam said on First Take this morning that he would not give up his 2015 MVP award if it went meaning a Super Bowl. Ocho, what do you think about this? I mean, everybody's different.

I think everybody would want a Super Bowl, but I think Cam wouldn't want to give it up because it's an individual accomplishment that he was able to achieve. And I think the Super Bowl obviously is a team accomplishment, but everyone would want a Super Bowl. But you can't say his preference on what he would do is wrong or what he would want is wrong or him not wanting to change one for the other because that's just his personal

preference and his opinion. What do you think about it, huh? Because if I had the opportunity, let's say, to win the Super Bowl with the Patriots that 2011 year, I would love to have a ring. You know, it'd be cool. It would be cool to say, hey, I'm a Super Bowl champion.

I mean, even though the ring would probably be collecting dust somewhere and I probably would have lost it. It'd be cool to say, you know, it'd be nice on the resume. It would look good, you know. That's really been cool to say. It would have been nice on the resume. It would have looked good. That's really tough, Ocho. Yeah.

Because on one hand, Cam being the first overall pick and winning the MVP signifies he's the best player in the league. But that year, he had the best year. Super Bowl MVP means that you played the best in in the league. But that year, he had the best year. Super Bowl MVP means that you played the best in that game.

Mm-hmm. I get what he's saying. Everybody doesn't view it the same. It's like, oh, Joe, some people like they, and I get, this is what I get asked.

Shannon, if you didn't, would you give up your Hall of Fame ring to win a Super Bowl? And my response, well, I don't have to make that choice because I have both. But some people don't have both. Some people got the Hall of Fame but didn't win a Super Bowl. Some people won a Super Bowl but didn't get into the Hall of Fame.

The MVP is different because the MVP is about one season. The Hall of Fame is about your body of work over a period of time. And 50 men and women, most of them that have never played a professional sport, says, based on our knowledge of the game, what we see, we think this guy's worthy of football. That's tough. Yeah. Yeah, everybody views it differently.

You'd have to look at what Cam is viewed at. Cam is a multiple- time Pro Bowl player now if he's just a guy that won a Super Bowl and never went to a Pro Bowl right now it's easy it's easy like okay

but mmm Tom Brady I had a conversation with Tom Brady on there, if y'all remember. Tom said he would give up one to two Super Bowls to win that undefeated season. Oh, man. Tom said I'd give up one or two. He's like, yeah.

Yeah, see, Tom being greedy. I think I look at it like this. Cam is never going to be right. Because they're never going to let Cam live down. He didn't jump on that fumble. Yeah. Because guess what? Even if he said,

yes, I will give up my Super Bowl MVP. I'll give up my MVP trophy to win a Super Bowl. Everybody going to say, why didn't you jump on that fumble to show us? You see? Right. You know that's where they're going to go to, Ocho.

Because I was reading some of the comments. Now that explains why Cam didn't jump on the fumble. He's more concerned about individual awards. And win for losing. I mean, there are guys that have won the Super Bowl that are not better than some of the guys that didn't there are some Super Bowl MVPs

so you telling me Santonio Holmes is better than Lance Fitzgerald because he has Super Bowl MVP is that what you're telling me are we sure about that right are we sure about that, Ocho? Right. Are we sure?

So Cooper Cupp won a Super Bowl MVP. He better than Randy Moss. He better than T.O. Man, stop. Look, everybody wants to win a championship, but see, what we've done now is that we put such emphasis on winning a championship that if a guy doesn't win,

now he a bum. There ain't no in-between. You either great or you a bum. Well, damn, what about all that space in-between? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't think guys don't try to go out. I think a lot of guys want to win. Everybody.

Oh, Joe, if everybody could win a championship, what are the effing value? Right. That's what makes it. That's what makes the championship significant. So if every,

just think about it. If every great player, every good player won a championship, what is the value in a championship? Right. It's so, it's so damn difficult

to get there. And now everybody, now we done got social media and everybody chiming in and everybody this and that. It's just, like I said,

Cam would, if Cam would have said, hell yeah, I'll give, I'll give, to win the Super Bowl? Yeah, I'll give him my MVP. Why don't you jump on that phone

and show us? See, he wasn't going to win, Cam wasn't going to be able to win. Not Cam. Because there's evidence that shows that, hey, He wasn't going to win. Cam wasn't going to be able to win. Not Cam. Because there's evidence that shows that, hey, he did

something and it didn't happen. Right. Go ahead. What you going to say? It's hard to defend that one. Oh, not jumping on the ball? Yeah, there's no excuse for it. He knows one. Oh, that jumping on the ball? Yeah, there's no excuse for it.

He knows that. He knows that. There's no excuse for that. I mean, in that moment, you give it all. You give it to all. Got to. The volume.

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