Nightcap - Nightcap - Hour 1: Knicks take down Pacers, Jokic wins MVP, Shaq's GOAT case

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Shannon Sharpe, Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson, and Gilbert Arenas react to the New York Knicks beating the Pacers to go up 2-0, Nikola Jokic winning his 3rd MVP, Shaq's position in the GOAT debate, and much more!03:42 - Show Starts05:20 - Knicks beat Pacers37:21 - Jamal Murray 100k fine45:56 - Joker wins MVP01:22:20 - Rudy Gobert wins DPOY(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I am your favorite uncle, Shannon Sharp. One of my co-hosts, he's your favorite number 85, route runner extraordinaire, Bengals ring of fame honoree. You know what? He's a pro. He was a pro bowler, an all pro from Liberty City. He's Chad Ocho Cinco Rosado Johnson. My other co-host on Wednesday night, he's your favorite number zero, Arizona Wildcat legend.

You know, they call him Mr. Hibachi Man himself. He is Agent Zero Gilbert Arenas. Thank you guys for joining us. Please make sure you hit that like button and please, please make sure you hit that subscribe button. And thank you guys for selling out my Shea by La Portia.

We're only taking pre-orders. We got a shipment in, about 700 cases that was directly went to Vista, which is the online. And so all orders will be processed in the coming weeks. So thank you. Thank you again for your patience.

Do me a favor. Do me a solid, that is. Please go follow my social media company. It's called Shea Shea Media on all platforms. It's at Shea Shea Media. Also my clothing company and it's spelled out 84COL, CL, my clothing company. And it's spelled out, 84COL. CLO, excuse me.

That's 84 spelled out. And you know what, guys? I greatly, greatly appreciate it. Also, go follow Gil, his YouTube channel. He has a show that airs every Monday through Thursday, live at 11.30 a.m. Pacific time. That's Gilbert Arenas, his YouTube channel. His show airs every Monday through Thursday, live at 11.30 a.m. Pacific time. That's Gilbert Arenas, his YouTube channel. His show airs every

Monday through Thursday live at 1130 a.m. And you can also follow him on his personal YouTube page No Chill Gil. Let's go on and get Gil's subs up. Y'all do up solid. The Knicks beat the Pacers tonight, 131-21. It was a

situation where Jerlin Brunson went down midway through the first quarter missed the main of the first all the set first half and then he came back and he seemed to have energized them so they come back and get a hard fought win 131-21 Gil I'm going to start with you tonight what did you like about

what the Knicks did and what didn't you like about what the Pacers did I mean what do you mean what Brunson did. It clearly shows he's the heart and beat of that team. They were up 11 when he went down.

Soon as he got hurt, they went down 11. So it was a minus 22 when he was out of the game. And soon as he comes back, you can see the energy, the soul, the patience, the leadership that he brings. So that was the glaring tale of the Knicks, that that is their heartbeat. Now, if Indiana takes anything from this game,

it should tell you, take out the head of the snake. The head of the snake is out. The rest of the snake falls, right? He goes out. They're basically a 22-point turnaround. Why are you playing one-on-one against him? He's a one-on-one assassin.

He leads the NBA in fourth quarter points. And what's the new thing they have? Fourth quarter points, clutch points. Yeah, they got the new thing, clutch points. Don't know what that is, but they got that. He leads it, right? So the fact that he leads in clutch points and fourth quarter points lets you know this is a dangerous man to be trying to guard one-on-one.

If you have any basketball knowledge, Rick Carlisle does, just double him. At this point, just double him. He's going to prove one-on-one you cannot stop this man. Are we sure Rick Carlisle has basketball knowledge? Because for some reason, he keeps putting them

hard on Brunson. And every time Brunson sees him, he thinks oxtails. He thinks mac and cheese. He thinks candy yam. He thinks neck bone. He thinks cornbread. He thinks collard green. He's thinking it's He thinks cornbread. He thinks collard green. He's thinking it's Sunday dinner because he's cooking it.

TJ McConnell comes in. He only played. He gave you 10 points and 12 assists in the limited minutes. And what he's doing more so than them hard. He's making Brunson work. Okay. Sometimes it's not about being able to stop him because he's a tremendous one-on-one player. But you got to make him work. He does minimal effort

when Nimhard is gardening. He's going shooting over the top of him. You see, what you call him is picking him up 94 feet. He's like, you know what? You might get some basket, but you're going to work for him. And that's what you have to do. And I don't understand. After the first game, you see Nimhard and you see him struggle.

And I agree. At some point in time, you're going to have to get the ball out of his hard and you see him struggle and I agree at some point in time you're going to have to get the ball out of his hand and you're going to have to make Josh Hart you're going to make Hardenstein you have to make other guys beat you because he's proven through the course of the year he can beat anybody I'm not going to let him beat me Pascal Siakam that has two games you've

been bulljacking now Tyrese Halliburton redeemed himself he had six points on six shots. He played well and I get it. He only had 12 points in the second half, but sometimes you got to be selfish. Sometimes you're like, you know what? Y'all bull jiving. Let me go ahead and do this thing on my own. 11 of 19,

7 of 11 from a 3. Pascal Siakam, you bull jived tonight. Miles Turner, I don't know what you was on tonight, but you got to do better. You got to do better than what you gave him. Ocho, take off. I mean, he ain't played well the last four games,

to be honest. The last two against Milwaukee and Easton, he ain't really You talking about Miles Turner or you talking about Pascal? Pascal. Well, neither one of them played good in the first two games. And they need to play better. Because, look at the them played good in the first two games. And they need to play better. Because look at the bench points.

Pacers in two games, 92. The Knicks, 15 bench points. But the Knicks are up 2-0. Mm-hmm. Hey, I enjoyed the game. It was a good game. I really enjoyed it. That goddamn Josh Hart.

I know everybody, we want to talk about Jalen Brunson, this, Jalen Brunson, that. Obviously, he went out in the first quarter, missed the whole first half, but that goddamn Josh Hart, I think he is responsible and more the reason because of his

rebounding prowess and getting those second chance points on why they are winning. Well, kind of running away with the game at a certain point because of those rebounds that he's getting. Jalen Brunson, bruh, unbelievable. Unbelievable. To piggyback off of what Gil said, talk about being the heart and soul of that team. Though, it's crazy.

Obviously, I didn't expect the Knicks to be this far into the playoffs for one for starters and to see them playing the way they're playing to see them handling the pacers the way they're handling the pacers is is a sight to see after it's been so long since the knicks have had what playoff appearances like this what was the last thing what it was in the playoff last year uh. I think, what you call it, beat them. I think the Heat knocked them out. Knocked them out in the first, though. Yeah. Yeah.

When's the last time they've been to the... How do you say it the right way? Oh, you're talking about the Eastern Conference Finals or the NBA Finals? Like the 90s. Okay. That's what I was trying to say. I got to get my terminology right. I got to get my terminology right. I got to get my terminology together.

Yeah. But you know, when it comes to Brunson, I mean, not Brunson, but when it comes to Hart, his value, he's one of those guys, man, that you don't really know what, you just put him out there. Right. Right?

Like, yo, do you, right? And we'll figure this shit out later. Just here, I don't know right like yo do do you right and we'll figure the shit out later just here i don't know how much i can pay you right now but we'll make it up in the back we'll make it up for you he's that type of player right type of player where like he will take a pay cut for the team get you know he's gonna have a coaching job he's gonna be on the staff that that's that player he's a glue player. And when you need him to score 19 and 15 rebounds, he's going to get that.

It lets you know now what Westbrook did then is needed. A guy who's going to go out there and just get it done. You need 15 rebounds for me? I got it, coach. You need 19? I got it, coach. Youounds for me? I got it, coach. You need 19?

I got it, coach. You need seven assists? I got it, coach. Just let me know what you need me to do. I'm the handyman around here. The best compliment I can pay him is he's a basketball player. That's what he is, Gil.

I mean, you don't really assign a title, a one, a two, a three, a four, a five. He's a basketball player. He'll do whatever you need to get done. Hey, son, we need you to play defense tonight. Okay. Son, we need you to give us 15 to 20 points. Okay, coach.

Son, we need you to give us somewhere between 10 and 15 rebounds. Okay, coach. You know what? Son, we need you to, you know what? We're going to run the offense through youounds. Okay, coach. You know what? Son, we need you to, you know what? We're going to run the offense through you tonight. Okay, coach. Whatever you need. And see, this is why you have to watch to understand.

Because if you look at the offensive rebounds, you say, well, Indy, our offensive rebound them by two. But look at when the Knicks got the rebounds. In the fourth quarter, when the game was won, was one possession game they got possession after possession and when Indy couldn't get a rebound or if they'd have gotten a rebound

could have maybe tied the game or went ahead guess what happened now the Knicks get now excuse me now the Pacers get the rebound and get to put back either two and one or three and so that was the difference in the ball game. Late in the ball game, they couldn't keep

Josh Hart. They couldn't keep Hartenstein off the glass. And I'm looking at you, Miles. I'm like, Miles Turner, he looking around like who did it and what for? I'm like, bro, get your ass on the glass. You seven foot tall.

This was I mean, we know, Gil, Ocho, when you start, when you like watch the Pacers, we know they don't play no defense. The Knicks shot 57% from the floor. They shot 47% from the three. You're not going to beat very many teams unless you shoot 60% from the floor and 60% from the three. You're not going to beat very many teams unless you shoot 60% from the floor. And 60% from the three. Because they're going to get whatever they want.

And you saw Brunson. So just imagine, Brunson finished the night with 29 points. How many points you think he would have got had he played the entire ballgame? It's another 40-piece. I'm disappointed because I want to see him get five consecutive 40 pieces because that's what he's got to get.

That's what he would have gotten. Now, Rick Carlisle. Now, well, this is the way we play, and this is what got us here. Now, you can leave them hard on him if you want to, and you're going to try to show your philosophy. You know, sometimes, well, we play the way we play. We don't block corners. Well, you better take your

best corner and you better let him get frequent flybys because he damn sure better travel because if you don't, that number one wide out is going to eat your number two and three corners up. I have a question. Yes. If Coach says that's the way they play and that's his philosophy and they're not changing

because he's going to stick to what he feels has worked to get them to this point throughout the entirety of the year. So when they play in Indiana, which I'm assuming is what, maybe Friday, Friday or Saturday? Yes. Friday or Saturday. Then Nimrod is going to be back on Jalen Brunson again. So.

40. Nimhard. Nimhard. Nimhard. Nimhard. Nimhard. Yes. Like Nimhard. Nimhard. Yeah. Nimhard. Nimhard. Nimhard? Nimhard. Nimhard. Yes. Like Nimhard?

Nimhard. Yeah. Nimhard. Nimhard. So, I mean, obviously the same thing is going to happen. So it's safe to say since Coach's philosophy and he's basically saying he's not going to change because this is the way we do things. So is this series basically over at this point? If they continue to play Jalen Brunson one-on-one, yes.

It's idiotone, yes. It's idiotic, Chad. This is why. This is not a regular season. This is the playoffs, right? Exactly. Playoffs, you're playing against specialty players. So you have a general offense.

I mean, a defense. Like, when we play in a regular season, it's like, all right, if he can shoot, we're going to go over. If he can shoot, we can switch. If he can't shoot, let's go under. If he's on the left side pushing baseline, you have typical defense. It gets you through the season. When the playoffs start, you have to really adjust to specialty players. You can't just say, oh, Jalen Brunson, we're just going to switch. If he sees that, he's going to pick out the weakest person on the defense

and he's going to call the screen from them. And go at him. No, no, no. You come. I used to do a pick and roll with him, but no, bring him over here. Let's get him. We used to get the year rolls on. Let me get the year roll over here.

Let me go ahead and bop him a couple times and score. So you usually pick on the weakest person so you have to change your defense for certain players you might not be at you first round normal defense this round they have a guy yes you don't have a guy so they don't really need to do anything defensively different than what they've been doing they have a they have a specialty guy. Probably one of the most dangerous people in the fourth quarter right now. You have to focus on him the whole

game, especially in the fourth. If they get to the next round, there's two people that does this. You have to be able to change it up for the personnel. You can't be standard. This is not a call.

Because what you got, it's a little bit different round. Yeah, because what happens, Ocho, is that I'm playing Miami one night. Then I got Orlando. Then I got Atlanta. I got Charlotte. But see, in a seven-game series, you're specialized. And normally, once you get to the playoffs, everybody has a guy that can go get buckets.

Some teams have two guys. You look at the Dallas Mavericks, they got two guys that you can put the ball in their hands and they can go get you a bucket. Kyrie and Luka. You got two, you look at Denver. Murray, yo, put the ball in the hand, go get you a bucket.

Carl Anthony Towns, Ant-Man, can go get you buckets. And so when you got a guy that can go get your buckets. Carl Anthony Towns, Ant-Man, can go get your buckets. And so when you got a guy that can go get you buckets, and most guys in the NBA are great because you can't be good if you can't play one-on-one. Look at the great players. They can all go one-on-one. If you can

go one-on-one and you give a guy a steady diet, he'll build up a resistance to it. And then now, he doesn't see the ball go in. See, the problem that they had is they let Jalen Brunson see the ball go in a couple of times. He hit his first couple of shots in the third,

kissed the baby. Go ahead, kiss the baby, put the baby to bed, because you know your ass about to be up all night. You ever see some time on the show, you're like, I'm going to get a nap when the baby go down. Because I already know she went down too early and my ass about to be up all night. So I'm going to get some sleep when they get some sleep.

Well, you let him, you let a brother start to cook. Well, you know what? You're going to be up all night because he about to tear your ass up. Listen, I don't know much about basketball, but I do know the same as it goes for us. Once we catch a football in a game, just the first catch, and you get that feeling and that confidence and you get in that rhythm, I'm assuming Gillis probably the same when it comes to basketball. Once you hit two or three shots and that confidence and you and you in the rhythm and you feeling yourself, it is hell after that. Yeah, it's hell for everybody after that. Yeah. All right. What DB you cooked?

Who was lunching me for you? Everybody except Revis. Everybody. No, I mean, imagine the person that's defending you is playing you one-on-one. You got seven games with this dude. Oh. The coach is like nah we just gonna

play him straight up that's what we've been doing all year exactly Hall of Fame jacket where you at I'm about to be a star just off them

and that's what that's what y'all gonna do y'all gonna let y'all gonna let the linebacker run with me up the scene take me to the seven take me on the out the far cross that's what y'all going to do? Y'all going to let the linebacker run with me up the scene? Take me to the seven? Take me on the out? The far cross?

That's what y'all going to do? Okay. That's easy work. Oh, my goodness. I mean, basically, these losses in these 40-point games, obviously, he only had 29 a night as far as Brunson goes. It's on the head coach then because he's not making the proper adjustments to be able to stop him.

Maybe you can't stop him, but at least contain him and force everybody else to beat you. But hell, even the supporting cast is having good games and putting up points as well. But the thing is, you got to make it difficult on him. You got to slow him down. You can't let him come down in every shot he put up. Hold on.

What was he? He was leveled of 18. Now, mind you, he missed almost 15 minutes of the game. Right. So at that point, he only missed... Bro! Like, I mean, if I'm guarding Brunson,

you know, I've played against these guys. I've watched these guys. I've seen how they... When you're that small, you have a knack for putting the ball in the back. You've been small your whole life. You've been playing against taller guys since you was probably in middle school. Yes. Right?

So you've adjusted to this height since you was a kid. Right. Nothing new for you. You do not play Nimrod. You do not play, play was it was it McConnell mainly it was it was it was Nimhard

and Neesmith McConnell comes in and picks him up some but they try to they try to you don't want you don't want none of them none of them on him

well I mean who you gonna put who you gonna put Siakam you need you can't put Siakam on Brunson Siakam can't do he can't do nothing with what youam. You can't put Siakam on Brunson. Siakam can't do nothing with what you call him.

He can't do nothing with OG. So how the hell is he going to guard? OG is stronger than him. So what I'm saying is, with Brunson himself, I want someone who's taller and has the arm. Because all Brunson's going to do is just hit you with his body because he's stronger. He's going to hit you with his body, turn around, jumper.

If you're the same height, if you're anywhere from 6'2 to 6'7, you're not going to bother his shot. He's used to that. He's used to that arm length. So you need someone who's a little bit longer to make him shoot a little bit higher. You're not going to stop him. All you're going to do is try to get more into your body, hit you, and then he's going to try to spin fade.

And your arm length should be able to alter the shot a little bit. Even if I'm guarding him, he's cooking me. Because once he hits me with the body, I'm going to back up a little bit and he's going to be able to shoot the jump. So using his body to create that distance. It's just like a math equation, right? You have long arms, okay, you jump a math equation, right? All right, you have long arms. Okay, you jump a little bit. So I need about two feet.

Boom. Okay, that's it, right? And that's all he's doing. He's calculating. Now, when I think about a gear, ain't that the same thing that move Carmelo do? He always put that shoulder. He just create a little bit of space.

A little bit of space. You're trying to dislodge him. You're trying to dislodge him. You're trying to dislodge him off that spot. A lot of times what guys are doing, they're trying to draw an offensive foul, so they're trying to plop. And they're not going to give you that. They're not going to give you that come postseason. You have to earn fouls in the postseason,

especially on a player like Jalen Brunson, because that's his game. Dip the shoulder, dislodge you off the spot, whether he's trying to shoot a jumper or he's trying to get to his spot and get to the basket. But they're not going to give you those calls. At some point in time, you can't keep letting guys, OG left, and he didn't play the entire fourth quarter, but he had 28.

Brunson missed 15 minutes of the game. He missed the entire second quarter. He had 29. DiVincenzo, he had 28. Josh Hart had 19. Hardenstein had 14. At some point in time, you can't keep letting their starters

get double figures. You can't let three guys on their starters have in the high 20s and shoot. OG was 10 of 19. Brunson was 11 of 18. DiVincenzo was 10 of 20. If you go back 11 of 18. Devin Chinzo was 10 of 20. If you go back and look at it, only McBride that played at

least 20 minutes, only one guy shot less than 50%. OG was 10 of 19. Hardenstein was 5 of 7. Jalen Brunson was 11 of 18. Josh Hart was 8 of 12. Devin Chinzo was 10 of 20. Who the hell you beating in the place

in the postseason? You let a team shoot 50... Do you understand, Ocho? Probably shoot around. You couldn't shoot 57%.

This is a game. Yeah. This is no different than with Miami. I mean, not Miami, but Phoenix Suns, right? They was all focused

on offense, no defense. And then when it comes to the playoffs and you really need to lock down defensive defensively it wasn't there the you don't have the the the the muscle memory to do it you know doing it a certain way you're gonna give up you're gonna like it's one of those things is you can pick him up full court. Yes. Because he's not a great ball handler in a sense of, like him or Hallie

is not great ball handlers. They're not Ree Irving, right? They're not John Wall, right? So they have fumble trying to get past you. They're great in the half court. So yeah, you try to tire me out in the back court. I'm going to just pass it to Josh Hart. So this is just a matchup tweak. Great in the half court. So, yeah, you try to tire me out in the back court, I'm going to just pass it to Josh Hart. Boom.

So this is just a matchup tweak. This is just a matchup tweak, but it seems like New York got accounted for all of it. They do. We've said this all year. Indiana's looking to outscore you. And if you look at the magic number for the Knicks, they got the 130.

The Pacers are trying to get the 130, 135. They don't play defense. They don't have outstanding wing defenders. Miles Turner is a great help defender, but because his offense is lacking, he's lacking on defense. Normally, they tie together. You play good offensively, you get some steals, you get blocked shots. You play good defensively, all of a sudden the ball starts to go in the basket.

But give the Knicks credit because when Brunson came back in, you could see it from the television. Even though I don't have my sound on, you could see the people standing because they're like, okay, our savior is back. You see them now all of a sudden, Devin Chinzo is shooting the ball.

Oh, this is about to go in. JB on the court. Josh Hart like, hey man, if I get this rebound, kick this thing back to JB, oh, we good. Harden's tired. All of a sudden, he's crashing the boards even harder. And the thing is because they're crashing the boards, you're

not making them pay. See, now you crash the boards. Josh Hart doing all that board crashing y'all got to get that rebound and get the ball out get in the head get some easy transition points but the but the knicks give them credit i thought the minutes would catch up with him gill because you know uh tips he likes to play his guys heavy heavy minutes devon chenzo played 44 minutes josh hart again played all 48. Hardenstein played 39. Jalen Brunson played 32, but he missed 15 minutes of the ball game.

Yeah, I mean, what he's doing is just old basketball, right? You know, when we played, Obie didn't come out of the game. LeBron didn't come out of the game. Not in the playoffs. Jordan came out of the game. Not in the playoffs, right? You know how to manage the time in the playoffs with timeouts, longer TNT or ESPN commercial breaks.

So you're going to get your rest. But what I love about this series is I don't think New York fans understand the rules of the NBA. All right, sit in the seats. I see somebody behind the basket. Get up from his seat and yell at the ref. Like he almost came on the seats. I see somebody behind the basket get up from his seat and yell at the ref like he almost came on the court. But I don't know

if y'all seen this, but New York is wild right now. You got two dudes sitting there like this ain't the Rutgers sit down. They in there yelling at the ref, picking the ball up, wiping it off. I'm like, oh, they crazy out there. They turnt up. That's dope, man. It is. I'm like, oh, they crazy out there. They turnt up. That's dope, man.

It is. I mean, the Knicks, look, there's a reason why they call Madison Square Garden the Mecca. Yeah. And when the Knicks are good, there's no better place to be. Look, you want the Knicks, you want the Celtics, you want the Lakers,

obviously not the Warriors, and if you don't get the Bulls or sprinkle the Bulls in there, you'll be straight. But if you want the Lakers, obviously now the Warriors, and if you don't get the Bulls or Springer the Bulls in there, you'll be straight. But if you got the Knicks, the Lakers, the Celtics, and the Warriors, NBA don't really... NBA is popping. You got

them teams good. What? Hey, so hypothetically speaking, I mean, I'm not wishing you bad luck on the Knicks, but if the Knicks win this series, who do you

think they're facing next? Cancun. They're facing the Celtics next. Why you say Cancun? Because it's about to be 4-1. You know who they're facing. The team that wiped y'all out, they're going to play them. So, wait a minute. So, what you're saying?

You're saying the Knicks don't have a chance to beat the Celtics in the seven-game series? Cancun. They're going to be in Cancun drinking P and Coladas. They did great. Nobody's going to be mad at them, man. Nobody. Listen, there's sometimes there's some forces you face in life that just got your number and they just better

suit it to do what they do. They play in Boston, right? They got stars over there. They got a team over there. They play defense over there. They got offense over there. It's a two-headed monster in Boston. Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. And then they got a Josh Hart.

They got a white who plays defense. Porzingis, when he comes back, they just rushing him now. See, nobody's paying attention to him because they winning every game by 20 plus. Yeah. So you're not even giving the Knicks a chance if they, I mean,

once they get to the next round. 4-1. And then whatever those dudes want on their contract, give it to them because they earned every dollar. See, I've never seen New York like this. Right. See, the New York I know, they going to boo as soon as the score is 2-5.

Oh, boo. 2-5. They booing. I've known the guard and the beatner I've seen a little turn up a little turn up with Jeremy Lin of course oh yeah I remember Lin when Trae Young got in that building

oh and they was going at it back and forth yeah that was dope different oh this is different and you know it's going to be sick when they play Boston. Oh, yeah. Knicks and Boston. It's going to be sick. Hey, Unc, the Knicks was good

when Sprewell and Allen Houston was there, right? They was good back then, huh? 90? Well, they went to their finals in 90-what? That was at 95? 94? That was 94. because they lost to houston because houston swept orlando the next year and i think they went 99 and they ended up losing to the spurs but i don't know i don't know if it was free on that team then i don't think spree was on that

team man the allen houston team i don't think he was on that team then oh he wasn't i don't think i think he was was the early 90s like 93 94 yeah i don't think spree i don't think he was on that team then. Oh, he wasn't? I don't think he was. Was he early 90s, like 93, 94, 95? Yeah, I don't think Spree was there yet. I think he was going to stay then. Yeah. But, yeah, they were, like I said, when they're good, when the Knicks are, the Garden is rocking.

It's the Mecca. They call it the Mecca. No building has had more historical events from the Beatles to the whole, to Kevin Hart, to boxing matches, Ali, I mean, you name it, that building that's hosted it,

Elton John, it doesn't matter. So when it comes... Sinatra? Yeah. I mean, just be honest, man, they probably got some cool... He was there in 99. They probably got some cool violations. He was there in 99. Spree was there in 99.

He was on that with Allen Houston. Was that the year that, what you call him, hit that shot? Was that the year that, what you call him, hit that four-point play? Grandmama? Larry. Larry Johnson. Remember he hit that four-point play? Because they was down like two, and I think he ended up hitting that four-point play? Because they was down like two, and I think he ended up hitting a four-point play or something.

Or maybe they were down three, and he ended up hitting a four-point play. Yeah, I wasn't hitting a 99, so I don't know. That was it. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I got to calm down. I got to make this shot now. It don't mean nothing if I don't make this shot. You're right. You're right.

The Knicks beat the Pacers 130-121. Jalen Brunson comes back in the second half. Breathed life. A team that was down 11. They go on to win by nine. Thanks to Jalen Brunson heroics. Devin Chinzo was sensational again. Josh, OG, Adinobi.

That's going to be an interesting situation there, Gil. If O.G. O.G. It looked like he pulled his hamstring. It did look bad. It did look bad. Yeah. What do I say about Josh Hart? I can't say enough good things about him. I think if

I'm not mistaken, he might be leading the playoffs and rebounding, and he's 6'4". That's crazy. That's why think if I'm not mistaken, he might be leading the playoffs and rebounding and he's a fixed four. That's crazy. That's why I compared him to the goddamn Dennis Rodman. I'm not calling Dennis Rodman undersized, but Rodman was all over the place. It's just like

he had a neck and always knowing where the ball was going to land. If it didn't land where he was at, he was going to get it. This lets you know one thing, man. He's been, he was going to get it. Yeah. Yep. This lets you know one thing, man. He's been, he was with the Lakers, with the Pelicans, right? He was like a free man, right? He's over at the Knicks.

You have a coach that believes in you, right? I'm not taking you out. This is your job. This is your team. Go out there and play. That I need you feeling that a coach can give a player. You're seeing it right now in real time. So when you think you need to yell at a player,

you can see positive reinforcement. This man will run through a wall for that team. This is not the same Josh that was in Pelicans or in Los Angeles. You're looking at him like, man, why don't we have him here? Because you didn't have a coach that believed in him like that one does right here.

That's it. That's the difference. And, you know, he believes in him. If he takes a shot, you know, a lot of times you get with coach your son we don't want you to shoot you pass it he pulls up from three till don't give it and he's hit some big threes hit one against philly he won the first game against indiana so tibbs gives him the confidence that he can go out there and play his game and if he makes a bad play gill coach coach ain't looking. Hey, get hard out.

You know, that's one thing, man. They can go out there and just play back. They don't got to look over their tree. They hear, they don't have to do this. Because nobody coming for them. 48th and 9th. Every sub, I'm just sitting there just looking straight. Having good old time.

You touch my hobby. Oh, wait, what's up? Oh, you subbing. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is

the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold,

connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second. I'm going to ask... I'm Leon Nafok, co-creator of Slow Burn.

In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, guys, we're going to move on. It's time for our first segment of the night, and it's called a news cap. Jamal Murray is ready to put game two incident behind him. Murray earned a hundred thousand dollar fine from the league for throwing a heat pack and a towel on the court in the middle of the team's game two loss. Murray did technically apologize for his action, but he made it clear he's ready to move on.

I mean, it is what it is. And I take everything. I take everything in full responsibility. So on to the next. Yeah. On to the next. I mean,

two days ago, there's not much for me to say about it right now. Are you surprised Gil that he only got a $100,000 fine? Or did you expect some level of suspension to come along with that? Yeah, I don't I never want to play to get suspended

you know, just for raw emotions, especially from a good dude like him, you know, he don't cause any problems. He don't get me. But like he said it is what it is. A referee or on the court in a live setting. This is not like they're on the other side of the court. They're in live action right now. You could have injured somebody.

I know, you know, we don't do ifs. But the fact that you did throw it, we don't know what your intentions is. And those intentions, whatever it is, should have been at least a one-game suspension, especially when you already be proving points to everyone in the NBA. You know, someone says something wrong about the referee.

Oh, they cheated us. $50,000 fine. You do this, $50,000 fine. So this right here gets the same merit as me throwing something at the referee. Well, God damn it, I'm doing that then. Instead of saying something to the referee with the $50,000, I'm going to throw something at the referee for double the price.

Yeah. Right. I think the best part about that is that MPG, MPJ, Michael Porter Jr., actually saw it and kind of kicked it, and I think KCP ended up tossing it off the court. But yeah, you're absolutely right. Good thing there was not a whole lot of action going on down there in the painted area

because you're right, Gil. Somebody could have stepped on that. Now, somebody steps on that and they're out. See, the way I look at a suspension, if a player does something, this is the way I recommend this to the NFL. If a player injures someone through a dirty hit,

you have to sit down until that player comes back. So if that player's out for a month, you sit your ass down for a month. He's out six weeks, you sit your ass out for six weeks. So if he injures somebody, Jamal Murray injures somebody, and he's out for four games, he's out four games. If the series gets swept, and he's out for four games? He's out four games.

If the series gets swept, you out for the number of games next year. And then you'll stop that foolishness. Yeah. I understand, but obviously, you know, Jamal Murray is not a problem child. He's not one that causes issues or concerns on the court. I think because of his emotion with this incident, it got the best of him. And I think that's probably why he wasn't suspended, because he's not one that always causes problems, is not always in some type of controversy. And then I think suspending him for one game would probably give the opponent somewhat of an advantage.

I think the commissioner just didn't want to see that happen. $100,000, that's a whole lot of money. Dude making $25 million. Dude making $25 million. But that's what I'm saying, Ocho. It's not about the... Gil, before you go, I'm not saying, look, had they suspended

him, I'm not going to stand up on my soapbox and advocate for they shouldn't have suspended him. So I'm not advocating that they did, that they should have suspended him. I'm saying had they suspended him, I would have totally understood and I said, okay, I get it. Go ahead, Gil.

And when they lost the game, how would you feel after they lost the game because Jamal Murray wasn't playing? I'd have said, well, you should have thought about that before you threw that heating pad on the floor. You know what I mean? That's the accountability that we got to take as players, right? You want us to be accountable.

I threw it out of emotion, right? And I got penalized in real time. The penalty is I got suspended. My team lost down 0-3. That's my fault. I got to live with that in the summer. We made Kwon Green feel he's still feeling it to his day of that championship that they led a good way for him being reckless. Right. He's been reckless and he has to take accountability for that when he's aging. Like he thinks about the championships. He knows, man, I should have had one more,

but my stupidity did that. Now, this is my issue. And I don't like doing scenarios like this, but is it fair? Let's say Ant-Man, someone slipped on that. Boy, they're growing. They're out of the series. How can you

allow the Denver Nuggets to move on? Yeah. You got the best player with this reckless behavior. No matter how many games you suspend, I can suspend you the most. This is the most important player suspend, I can suspect you the most. This is the most important player for them.

You still have your most important player. You guys end up coming back and winning a series all because of this move. I don't know. I can't feel. That just feels horrible that that is a possibility of something like that happening. And I can tell you this right now. Listen,

I'm about 30. You know, I'm willing to win. So if I know this is only 100,000, hey, you ain't playing, right? Who is you? You want to see? What's your name? Hey, go ahead, throw a heat pack under that.

Throw a heat pack right there and see if we can go ahead and get Youngfell out of the game. Because here's my thing. If I'm the fourth player or the fifth player or the seventh player on the team, hell, I'm going to start an argument with the number one

or number two player. I'm going to try to get you thrown out. Because if I get thrown out, it's not as big a loss as you getting your foot. If I get into it, I'm the seventh guy on the team. And I can get into it with LeBron or I can get into it with LeBron, or I can get into it with Joel Embiid.

I get tough. We double text and they throw both of us out. Who won? Who won that? At San Antonio against the Suns? You remember that game when Amari came off the bench? Robert Ory had checked Steve Nash into the bench.

Robert Ory and Amar Stoudemire came off the bench. Had that been David Stern, oh, he was gone for a game. No, no, but that's what ended up happening. Yeah, he suspended him. He got suspended. What Robert Horry did, right? What Robert Horry

did ended up being a brilliant play because he chucks Steve Nash, Mark gets off the bench, he got suspended. So Robyn Ory versus Morris Stoudemire who was an all-NBA player at that point in time. So which was the more important loss?

And this is what I tell people. They say, well, he's the first time. There's a lot of people up in Pelican Bay. And if you're from Texas, you know where Huntsville is. There's a lot of people in in Pelican Bay. And if you're from Texas, you know where Huntsville is. There's a lot of people in prison for a first time offense. First time offense? It only

take one time. Exactly. How many people have messed up their lives, Ocho, over a first time offense? A lot of, hey, there's a lot of fathers out there. All it took was one time. One time. Yeah. One time. Yeah.

One time. But Jamal Murray, he'll be able to go game three. He's going to have to play better. And he hadn't been shooting the ball well. And I think a lot of his heroics in the Lakers series have masked that he has been shooting the ball poorly. And so now it's come to fruition that he's not in the position to win the games on last-second shots. And when you compound that, they're making it very difficult

on this year's MVP. We'll talk about that in a second. Nikola Jokic, he's one of the most efficient players in the NBA. He was 5 of 13, and then he was like 11 of 25. And, yeah, he had a triple-double, but that triple-double didn't matter because that game wasn't even close. And then in the first game, he had 32 points, but it took him 25 shots to get it.

And he didn't have double-digit rebounds or assists. So one of those two guys have to play great in order for them to have a chance to win. If both of those guys are playing bad, you're going to see the outcomes that you've seen over the first two games. Big, big losses. Let's go ahead and get to it.

Nikola Jokic has been named MVP for the third time in his fourth season. Jokic ranked 10th in points, fourth in rebounds,rd in assists. He became the second player in NBA history to have at least 2,000 points, 900 rebounds, and 700 assists in a season

joining Oscar Robinson when he first had the triple-double, had a season of triple-double in 61-62. He's the ninth player to win three or more MVPs. Kareem has six. Michael Jordan and Bill Russell has five. Wilt Chamberlain, LeBron James has four.

Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Nikola Jokic, and Moses Malone have three. Gil, hold on. Check this out. Shaq openly told Jokic that someone else should have won the MVP moments after the MVP was named on TNT. The crew, Shaq said, Joker, as president of the Big Man Alliance, you are the vice president of the Big Man Alliance. You know I love you, but the best

player in the league, I want to congratulate you. I want you to hear from me first. I thought SGA should have been the MVP. That's no disrespect to you, but congratulations. Gale, what you think? think well we already know what you think you don't think Shaq could have left that part

out of there just congratulating him but let me and you and I have that discussion but to Shaq's credit he don't have to worry about Shaq going on a podcast on his own podcast or go saying something.

I'm saying this to your face. I think you're the best player in the league. I think you're the best big man in the league. And yada, yada, yada. But this year, I thought SGA should have won the MVP. But go ahead, Gil. Hey, say that shit on your podcast. Don't say that.

Not on TNT while I'm trying to get my guy in that trophy. Yeah. I'm still going to take this trophy home. I appreciate your honesty, but this trophy is still going on the mantle. Don't do that to me. Now, let's go ahead and celebrate me. Go on your podcast and say what you really feel, and then we keep it like that.

But it gives where's the hope? Where's the hope for young players it gives, it gives, where's the hope, right? Where's the hope for young players, right? To,

this is who we were last year. We're the number one team this year. We outplayed the champions who was supposed to be number one. We became number one. I'm averaging 30. I'm doing, why am I not being rewarded? How are you rewarding someone who did not live up to this year expectations? They were expected to dominate the season

and they didn't, we did. I perform, I'm not averaging 22 and 25. I'm averaging 30. I got my boys playing rocket basketball. We out here playing on both sides of the field. I finish games. Now, the knock against Jokic

is we can talk about the assists all we want. We can highlight the assists. Are we going to just ignore the fact that he is not the go-to guy when it counts? Are we going to ignore the fact that what SGA does at the end of the game, he's a clutch player, that ball goes to Murray at the end of the game.

He is the guy who Jokic relies on to hit those buckets he becomes the number one option when the game is on the line so you're giving the MVP to a guy who

when it counts has to give it to another guy and you're saying hey young fella maybe next year. It kind of just takes away from what are we all doing this for? What is the point of being number one? Jason Tatum, what is the point of me being number one? What is the point of us doing any of this if you're not rewarding anything? What are you rewarding?

And that's the problem I have. We do not have any consistency on this award. You don't want the guys to be selfish, right? You say, all right, if you're selfish thinking about yourself and not the team, we're not going to reward you. Now you got guys trying to build teams and, okay, I'm winning. Hey, I'm still doing good. Yeah, nah, not this year.

Yeah, we're going to give it to some selfish. Like, it just, you can't keep. I will say this, Gil, before you go, Ocho, Jason Tatum ain't have no, and he shouldn't, don't even talk about the MVP. Because the way he fell off, man, he fell off like Milli Vanilli. Jason Tatum.

Wait, what do you mean fell off? Did you not see his last game? His last game, he's by the bottom. He should, you can should... First of all, okay, if you want to say SGA, I ain't finna fight you. If you want to say Luka, I ain't finna fight you. But to say Jason Tatum over Jokic? Oh, no. Oh, no.

He should have been... First of all, Jason Tatum shouldn't have been over Brunson. Hmm. What we need to do here if you got to think about telling me something like he ain't doing what he doing the score's 30-0 hey

man I can make a case that Jalen Brown is just as important you can say that I don't know have you seen these playoffs Have you seen these playoffs? Have you seen these playoffs? Yeah, you know what?

I do see the playoffs that we win about 20 every game and I don't need to really bump my engine. Hey, number two option. Do your thing, young fella. Do your thing. We win about 20 without your assistance. It's been Derek White and Jalen Brown. But what I'm saying is

the number one, this guy at this point, he needs to be great at the beginning of the game to get the score up. We're penalizing Tatum for something we gave Steph Curry. We gave Steph Curry an MVP

and he didn't play in damn near 44 quarters because it was blowing everybody out. Average about 24, but the way they calculated it, it made sense. So you can't look at his numbers the same because he's blowing everybody out and he's not in in crunch time anymore. Like, when was the last time he played the last five minutes? I don't like

Tatum for the MVP this year. Maybe the first half of the season, but the last half, those guys that the Brunson's, the Jokic, the SGA's, and the Lucas, I thought they would have been more deserving. Now, do I think Jason Tatum is going to be on the first team All-NBA?

Yes, I do. But that's what I'm saying. It's like, because we're going to be on the first team All-NBA? Yes, I do. But that's what I'm saying. It's like, because we're so good, why are you penalizing me for being so good? It makes me say, all right, I just want to be a mediocre team, so I have to play every game hard. That's what I'm saying. If you're Jason Tatum, you've been to four finals,

you've been to four finals, you're going to be at your fifth one. Most likely, if Denver get put out, they are winning the championship because the first two rounds plus New York, Jason Tatum and Brown

is not going to be challenged by anybody themselves, right? As a player, there's no three man on the other team that's going to be challenging them to them for them to rub up their engine so they're going to have fresh fresh legs versus somebody like um ant-man yeah ant-man got to play all the way from

this series to the next series on to it so boston's going to have fresher legs from their stars. He wins a championship and we're saying yeah, you just didn't have it this year because they won 60-something games. It just seems like... No, he played well. I thought he played well. I think, what's the average? 26, 27? Yeah. Go ahead, Ochoa. What you thinking?

I mean, listen. Joker and Joker. He's been Joker the past, what, three seasons? Obviously winning his third MVP. Had Joel Embiid not had that historic season last year? Right. He'd have been four for four, Gil. Yeah.

Four for four, no Dominique. I mean, but Shai's been special, man. You look at what Shai's done over in OKC. Obviously, like, to piggyback off what Gil said, most 30-point games since 2019 when Harden did it. Listen, he led the NBA in steals too. Yep. Obviously, he's the best player on the Thunder.

And if I'm not mistaken, they were the number one seed as well, right? Yes. When it's time for a clutch shot at the end of a game and OKC is playing, who are they trying to get the ball to? Shea? Yeah, Shea. I mean, listen, you take Shea off the Thunder. Are they in the playoffs?

No. No. I mean, there are so many different variables that go into it that says, you know what? Based on what he did this year in such a short amount of time in his career, he should have won MVP. Yeah. So basically, if they come back next season and he repeats the same cycle again,

which I'm assuming Joker will probably do the same thing, do they give it to Joker for a fourth time to win his fourth MVP? Yeah, it's going to be hard. It's about to start getting harder and harder because you know when you get that third, because think about it. LeBron had his fourth at what, 28 Gil?

29? And had he really come close, I think he came close. I think he finished second to Harden one year. And so in about 10, 11 years. So it's about to get harder and harder for guys to win those MVP,

once you get to that number. Right. Go ahead, Gil. Okay, so this is my question here. Right, Joker's team was fifth when he won an MVP, tenth when he won an MVP. They had best record, fifth best record. This year, I don't even know,

but they're third in the West, right? Second, yeah. The team aspect hasn't been dominant. What happens now? He already has three, and his team decides they get better. He does the same numbers, but his team is winning 60, 65 games, 70 games. Are you going to give him the MVPs that he deserves? Or then you're going to go back and screw him and say,

no, we can't give you them now. What do you do now? What do you do when his team, they come back next year and they win 65 games and he has the same numbers? You sit there like, because you already rewarded him when his team was not the number one team in the NBA. So what do you do when he is the number one team?

Gil, I think the thing is, you look at the MVP, because of the way Joker played in the playoff last year, it kind of carried over and it's like, oh my God, maybe we made a mistake. You look at Ant-Man, the way he's played in the playoffs. You look at Jalen Brunson. If Luka can turn it around, I think, Shea, I think the MVP is going to come from one of those guys because I think the voters are going to look, and we understand this is a regular season award. You know, everybody's like, well, you got to take it.

We ought to wait until after the playoffs. No, no, the MVP has always been a regular season award. You have finals MVP for the player that plays the best in the playoffs and in the finals. That's what that should be. But I think the thing is for SGA, if he could go on and get his team to the Western Conference finals or get them to the NBA finals, even if they don't win,

obviously if they win, it would be a huge accomplishment. I think the voters are going to look, you know what? We've got to reward these young guys coming up. So then, but that's not a problem. You're going to, that means you're going to screw somebody next year to make

what you did. You can't write wrong. Somebody, hey, Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, say y'all been screwing people all these years. Keep on screwing them. Somebody, Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, so y'all been screwing people all these years. Keep on screwing them. Yeah,

that's right. Okay, like that's what I'm saying. If Joker wins 63 games next year and he's playing the same way, we're going to be saying Joker's the MVP. Yeah.

Well, now the lesson B comes back healthy. And then they're going to be like, well, he was third last year. Now he's won this year. Yeah.

You got to give it to him. He has a great upside. What does Shea do next year to get an MVP? This is what I'm saying. This is why I say the same thing with Jason Tatum. I'm averaging 30. My team is number one. I'm not averaging

22. I'm averaging 30 points a game. What do I need to do next year to win an award? Because if I average 28 and we're number one, you're going to say, ah, this 30 points a game. What do I need to do next year to win an award? Because if I average 28 and we're number one, you're going to say, ah, this is a down year. Yeah. Back to Shaq. I think a part of Shaq,

he might not ever admit this, but Shaq see these guys winning these MVPs and a little envious. And I don't care. Look, I understand that Shaq got four titles and he has three finals MVPs but Shaq no deep down. We should be having a discussion

for goat Shaq. Shaq name is never brought up in the discussion. Now we bring his name up with big man with Will Russell and Kareem and rightfully so but we're never going to see another guy Shaq size with his athleticism that was as

dominant as him. And he robbed himself because he didn't take it serious enough. Did he take it serious? Not nearly as serious as he should have. Shaq should have five MVPs. Shaq should have seven titles.

And I think he sees a guy like Nikola Jokic that's not as dominant as him and gets three and four years. And people are talking about him. And they never talk about him dominant big man. But see, when you're historically

great, they talk about you as great basketball player. The GOAT. And Shaq is never brought up. When they say Tom Brady, even though he plays quarterback, they say Tom Brady is the greatest football player. Ocho, you and I debate. We say Jerry. We say Lawrence Taylor or whomever. But Tom

Brady, although he played quarterback, Shaq is never brought up in those discussions when it comes to GOAT. He's never in front of Magic. He's never in front of LeBron. He's never in front of Magic. He's never in front of LeBron. He's never in front of Jordan. He's never in front of Kareem. He's never really in front of Russell. When we talk about GOATs, those

might rush more. And I think a part of him is envious of that. But he doesn't have anybody to blame but himself. But do you think it's because he's a sinner, though? Obviously, when we talk about the gold conversation

Kareem is a center but okay when I think Chamberlain got four what are we talking about here Magic got three Bird got three

Moses Malone was a center he has three what are we talking about here? Magic got three. Bird got three. Moses Malone was a center. He has three. What are we talking about here, Ocho? I mean, I see him as... I'm trying... He can shoot. He got mid-ranking shoots at three. It's a different type of center for today's

game as opposed to Shaq being in the post. Kareem didn't do nothing but throw a sky hook. Wilt didn't do nothing but the finger roll. So what now? Wait, so when we talk about the greatest basketball players of all time as far as the GOAT conversation,

Shaq's name is never brought up in that? Have you ever heard it? No, because it's normally just Kobe, MJ, and LeBron. That's it. Kareem. I never heard of Kareem. Actually, Kareem doesn't get the credit that he deserves. No, on most...

It's always the same three names. Hey, the NBA players voted and they had Jordan 1, they had LeBron 2, they had Kobe 3. But when you see most... When they do the analytics and they ask all these execs,

it's normally Jordan, LeBron, Kareem. No. I'm talking about us. I ain't talking about them execs. But here's the thing. I'm talking about barbershop talk. Barbershop talk. How do you put a guy which got the most regular season MVPs,

before LeBron broke his record, he had the most points, the third most rebounds, five titles, two finals MVPs, and you say he's not in the GOAT conversation. Same reason we say Bill Russell not in it. We just do. But here's the thing. Russell was the most important, but there are times, I mean, Russell didn't win Rookie of the Year.

Tommy Heisman won Rookie of the Year. Now, it'll be interesting to see during those 11 titles how many finals MVPs. So let's just say for the sake of argument, he got eight finals MVPs. Are we going to leave him out of the goat conversation now, Gil?

No, sir. In reality, there's only two people arguing for the GOAT. Whoever you have as third, you're irrelevant. Because you can't put any more stats up on the board for you to get

the number two or number one anyway. So when people say, yeah, this is the GOAT debate, Shaq, you were in the GOAT debate, Bill, you guys don't have any more stats, right? There's only, if Jordan is the GOAT debate. Shaq, you're in the GOAT debate. Bill you guys don't have any more stats, right? There's only, if Jordan is the GOAT and they're saying LeBron is number two, the only reason this is still a conversation is because LeBron is still

trying to get in front. Once LeBron stops, there's no more GOAT debate if he stops at two, right? If he stops at two, it's just Michael Jordan. And then whoever comes along and he jumps in front of LeBron, then that's the gold debate.

Once you're in third place, bro, you got the bronze, right? There's no debating of that part of it. The only reason this is still a conversation is because there's still a player right now. When it comes to Shaq, Shaq hates every big man. He does. He didn't like...

Shaq and the Fool, going at JaVale McGee and all of them, he doesn't like the big man rightfully so because that's his position. He is in his mind, he is the apex predator. No matter what no one says, he don't

care what you say. He don't care. You can throw all the championships and all that. If we lace him up and we had to, in our prime, had to play against each other in our prime, he thinks he's the apex predator. Right? I'm gonna

bust through all y'all. So you guys consider those awards? Those awards hurt me. It's the MVPs, Gil. It's the MVPs because they only have one. And that's my argument. You and I debated this. It's hard for me to put somebody in the GOAT conversation with one MVP.

Regular season. It's hard, Gil. It's hard. So we're going to take somebody with one regular season MVP and put him in front of people that got three, that got four, that got five. Hey, but I have a question. Even without the MVPs, right? Even without the MVPs. Listen, Shaq's reign of dominance during his tenure in the NBA was like no other. It was like

no other. The zone is in because of him. They put the zone in because we didn't have enough people to guard him. So they said, hey, we can do a two-three. So that means we can put somebody in front of him, somebody behind him, right? And we can try

to contain him. That zone was not for, let's make better shooters. It was because no one could guard. Shaq Donovan wasn't as long as Kareem's. It just wasn't. It wasn't. If you know basketball,

he's the one guy, he had the most, you could talk about the one leg step back, you could talk about the step back three. But Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, because guess what? I got 10 guys that can shoot the James Harden step back three. I got 15 guys can shoot the one leg step back. How many guys have ever been able to throw the sky hook? No, no, you're right about that.

And I'm saying how many say how many guys break back boards on people's backs see they was finding Daryl they took finding $10,000 he said well I'm done with this because they wasn't making the money if you remember Chocolate Fondo he was the reason why they put the collapsible rim in because he

was literally taking the rim out of the glass so they put the collapsible rim in for Daryl Dawkins I know that's in because he was literally taking the rim out of the glass. So they put the collapsible rim in for Daryl Dawkins. I know that's before your time, but I remember Daryl. He was chocolate thunder. That's when they used to let the guys play with gold chains on, Gil. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles,

break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all

you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the

right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second.

I'm going to ask... I'm Leon Nafok, co-creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran-Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do.

To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But you got to let you, but you know, Shaq, that's just one of those things that's in him. He can't, right? When you think you like that like the same thing with Penny, the envious of Penny, the envious of Kobe, the envious of Dwayne Wade. He said it out of his mouth when he went to Cavs. He was envious of LeBron.

You're talking about a guy who, when he came into the NBA, his name was up there with my Jordan down there. I think you made the all-star game with a rookie. Didn't you make the all-star game with a rookie? Boy, that power when you young, man, you got everything to your disposal when you young,

man, it's hard to not to walk like Superman and act like Superman. And you said, yeah, he's the number one option. And you said, but here's the thing, Gil,

what did they see every stop that he went? Did he outwork Penny in Orlando? Superman. And you said, yeah, he's the number one option. And you said, but here's the thing, Gil. What did they see every stop that he went? Did he outwork Penny in Orlando? Did he outwork Kobe in LA? Did he outwork D Wade in Miami? Did he outwork? You see, he wanted things. See, he wanted things for the work that he didn't put in.

You see what we talked about? We had this conversation the other night. Management sees. See, he thought, well, I'm the best player. I ain't got to practice. So I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. And they said, well,

if that's the case, we'll pin it, Kobe, this one, that one. So what are the teams supposed to do? And then the injuries injuries robbed him because he didn't control his weight he didn't train like he was supposed to

and you see what happens Shaq's supposed to be in the gold conversation Shaq's supposed to have 30,000 points Shaq's supposed to be a top 5 rebounder and while y'all bull driving a guy that gets left out is Tim Duncan. People don't realize

how good Duncan was. Oh, he was the B. He was the E. Yes. Yes. Yeah. He don't get the credit. Look, have never been a lot of great guys like elijah juan was a great big man people yeah the dream shake and he was as good i got him he's the best defensive you can make a case he's the best defensive player because he can slide on the

pick and roll he can slide he can get. Obviously, blocking shots, all that other stuff. He was fundamentally sound. Offensively, we know about the dream shape. But there are a lot of guys that don't get the credit, especially when you're in Jordan. I mean, because for whatever reason, guys, we don't like bigs. Because you know what? We got to have a little guy get

you the ball. The little guys can have the ball and go get their own point. Jordan, Colby, LeBron, we don't need y'all bigs. We can go get out, we can take the ball from one end to the other. You're not going to do that, but on occasion. So the bigs are never going to get the credit

they deserve in the game of basketball. But they're very, very important. And I think Shaq, I know for a fact, if Shaq would have had, let's just say, if he'd have had my work ethic, he'd have had 40,000 points.

But let's just say he had a little bit, a better work ethic and his diet. What do you think, Gil, what do you think he could have done with a little better work ethic and cleaned up his diet. That's been the argument that Kobe had his whole career, right? If you just have somewhat of a better work ethic.

Maybe not 10 because San Antonio, but they'd have had it. I'd give him at least five or six, Gil. We was like, this is what I'm saying. Think about the skilled players today, right? People don't realize this either. All of the power forwards back in

96 to about 2005, have you noticed when they say the center position is gone? Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. It went to the four man. Everyone was so scared of Shaquille O'Neal and guarding him. You got

7-1 dudes pretending they 6-9. You automatically got put to the center and they didn't want to guard Shaq for the two or four games, so they went to the power four position and became power fours. That's why our power four position is dominant because they was all scared of Shaquille O'Neal, right? That's just how it was.

Like, I got to guard Shaq or I'm going to go on a six, five Charles Barkley. Yeah, I'm going to go to this position. So they all moved to the power four. So when you look at the power four position, all these dominant bigs, they were supposed to the power four. So when you look at the power four position, all these dominant bigs, they were supposed to be five men, seven foot power forwards because they didn't want to guard him.

So the fact that if he would have just stayed in the gym, kept his weight under control, right? There was no one. There was no one in the history of the game that could have dealt with him. Shaq had a game. You remember that game Shaq had, Gil?

He had 24 points, 28 rebounds, and 15 blocks. And the 24 points is that. You got 52 dudes sticking to, man. We calling for it. I've never. There's not been a dude in the league since I played. As soon as he thought about like he started ducking in

he ain't got the ball yet dog come on down here help look at in the finals look at what Shaq did in the finals when he was in the Lakers and look at what he did when they went head up with it when Rick Smith or

or the Kim Bay or Paul Kenyon Martin. Look at Shaq's numbers. 38 and 16. Damn. 35 and 15. 34 and 14. Oh, man, it was. The only guy that could have a problem with it because he was going to make it work on the other end was Tim Duncan.

Because Tim Duncan was going to make it work on the other end. And that's what you have to do. Olajuwon gave him problems because Olajuwon used his quickness. You know, he feel Olajuwon, he's like he feel him on the right side, Olajuwon's already to the left side, and he's in front of him, he just stole the ball. So Olajuwon gave him problems because Olajuwon can make him work on the other

end also. Yeah, that's not fair though. That was a two-year Shaq versus a damn NBA MVP. That's like Embiid and Wimby right now. That ain't unfair. We got to wait until they prime back together.

Man, look here. Elijah Wall was giving up 100 pounds. Damn. That was 93. You got a guy out there putting him in the trick bag that was 95 95 NBA finals 95 not okay

yeah that's 95 my bad but he giving up 100 pounds Gil that be like you come on Gil I'm gonna get a a seven greatest in business. But, man, look here. And I've told Shia, I said, bro, just a little bit.

Because what happens as you start to age, the injuries will start to come with greater regularity, and they'll keep you down for longer. An injury, when you're young young keep you down maybe a week as you start to get two three years past now the injury keeps you down for two weeks now the injury keeps you down for a month now the injury keeps you down for half the season and so

you're like damn and that's it if Shaq would have taken it like you know it was the end all be all Kobe Jordan I'm not saying you couldn't shoot your commercials and do things but what did Jordan do when he shot Space Jam he had a court built at Warner Brothers and they played basketball he called guys in and they hoot Kobe in the gym. LeBron in the gym. Man, if Shaq did that.

So Shaq is looking at, yo, man, this Joker, he's 29. He got three MVPs. Three? Giannis got two MVPs. And that's why I say when people talk about the 80s, the 90s, and they have this discussion, and I say the difference really is, yeah, we have technology, and these guys have history. To look at where you were successful and where you failed, and then they can change it. So the Yoke is you, you can see if, if he was a lazy dude,

he was, he had one coming in too. He had a way punker, but he took care of his body. And this is the reward of it. We seen Giannis bulk up, right? We,

we see these guys taking the extra measures. There's no Dennis Rodmans in this game. There's no guy going to the club, Ocho, partying, drinking all night. Not the great ones. Go out there and score 20. No, dog, that ain't happening, bro. You're going to get exposed in this game.

So these guys, there's so much money and there's so many brands that's going on that these guys are all walking like a business. They're all thinking like Michael Jordan. It was Michael Jordan and then everybody else was getting rewarded for what this man was doing.

Now everybody wants to be Michael Jordan's brand. They're all acting like a Michael Jordan, a Kobe Bryant, a LeBron James. So I'm not going to get caught drinking. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to go out and play video games.

You know, so they're all being under the rug versus everybody just being athletes out there. Everybody now, when Michael Jordan got Tim Grover, now everybody has a personal trainer. Everybody has a chef. Everybody's in the gym. Everybody's doing all that because Charles Barkley, I just had Charles Barkley on my podcast, he said man he said Shannon, when I was

280, I could only play like first like 3-4 minutes and he asked Moses Malone Moses Malone told him, Moses Malone at that point in time was a 3-time MVP he said Chuck, you fat and you lazy that's a hell of a combination,time MVP. He'd say, Chuck, you fat and you lazy. That's a hell of a combination. You could be one

or the other. You could be fat, but you can't be lazy. You could be lazy, but you can't be both. That's too bad habits to have. It's like sport. Ocho, you could be one or the other. You could be old, but you can't be old and slow. You get to choose one, but choose wisely.

But you got both of them on your side, you old and slow. You get to be one. Choose one, but choose wisely. But you got both of them on your side, you old and slow? You fat and lazy? Chuck said, I got down to 250, so now I can play. Chuck led the league in rebounding. Chuck can't be no more than what, 6'4", 6'5"? He led

the league in rebounding. With the Shacks, with the Elijah Wands, with the David Robinsons, with the Patrick Ewins, with all those tall guys, he led it. Because he in shape. Zion.

All Zion got to do. Zion get down to 250. Zion win the MVP. Did y'all see him against the Lakers the last game? Y'all see how easy he got 40? Because he going to get the way he want to, and you can't stop him. Can't. Did y'all see him against the Lakers the last game? Y'all see how easy he got farting? Yeah. Because he's going to get the way he wants to, and you can't stop him. Can't.

I listened to that interview, and I wanted to tag Kevin Durant because he said in there, he said, you know, I was in Philly, and I was like, man, I need some help. That's what they're saying. They be killing these people for, screaming for some help, dog. Charles. But that's what I love about the old dudes. They got dementia early. They forget that they're packed up.

But see, the way that, Gil, the way they look at it is that the team moved them, the general manager. They don't like, you get the same results whether you a is either you steal it or somebody give it to you it's theft by possession you know it's stolen and you take it they're gonna take your ass to jail too even if you stole it they're gonna take your ass to jail it's called receiving stolen goods, theft by possession. So you in possession of it. You know. So even though the general manager moved you or the team or guys like, you know what,

man, I want to play with you. Hey, Gil, hey, Gil, me, you and Ocho, we're going to team up tonight. Well, people probably mad at us because we put this together and not some corporation guys. See, it'd be cool if a corporation said, you know what, we want to start a podcast. We pick this guy. We pick that guy. We pick corporation guy. See, it'd be cool if a corporation said, you know what? We want to start a podcast. We pick this guy. We pick that guy. We pick

this guy. Nah. I say we're going to start a podcast. I would pick the team. Hey, you good? You want to do this? Hey, let's rock. Hey, Ojo, saying, yeah, I need more help or trade me. It's the same thing, dog.

It's the same thing. You want out and you want to go to a better team because you don't have enough. You're blaming your team, right? It's the same thing, man. And that's why I say you can't go on your podcast today or the TNT and ESPN and then kill players for who you were.

Say, hey, man, listen, I understand. Did it like this. I regret it today. So don't be like me. But don't pretend like we do have internet. We can go to 1994 Philly articles,

Charles Barkley quotes, and then start reading. We can do that. We got the benefit today. Rudy Gobert won. We got the benefit today. Rudy Gobert won defensive player of the year. Gobert becomes the third player in NBA history to win the awards four times, joining Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace. What do we got? Steals per game.

Gobert was 0.7. Blocks per game, 2.1. Defensive rating, 104.4. Wemby, 1.2 steals a game. 3.1. Defensive rating, 104.4. Wimby, 1.2 steals a game, 3.9 blocks a game, 105.8 defensive rating.

But when people say, oh, team rating, look at the defensive rating when Wimby's on the court. I thought Wimby should have won the award because I thought what do you think? What do you think, Gil? I thought Wimby should have won the award because I thought, what do you think? What do you think, Gil?

It's called defensive player of the year. Not defensive team. So if you're saying, you know, this is an argument we had today. If Rudy doesn't have to be as great because his team is great and he just gets to do the cleanup. So basically, he's running his engine at about a 75 to 50 percent on his defensive because everybody's good. And you have a guy who's running at a 100 percent to just keep his team locked into the game. He becomes the better defensive player. At the end of the day, listen, I don't want to knock somebody for winning an award.

Just I think it's better for us to really understand how are you guys voting? What is the voting metrics? Give us everything that you're looking at so we can see it as a whole, because all the stats we're looking at right now says otherwise. I think there needs to just be explanations on how are they voting? What are they looking at? What are they seeing? So we can get a better understanding, because I don't want to say he doesn't deserve it. This guy deserves it.

And then your metrics is this. And I think your metrics is that. Ocho. Ocho. I mean, if you. Ocho, before you go, I want to say this, Ocho. The Timberwolves without Rudy Gobert held the Denver Nuggets, the reigning champs, to 80 points. That's a good one.

That's a good one. I knew you were going to say that. But listen, if Rudy's, if he's won it three times before, right? And obviously he's won it because of his defense. And then we have Wimbamiyama. Yeah, Wimbamiyama, who's coming now, who is also good on the defensive end and the offensive end. I think they give it to Rudy Gobert again for a fourth time because he's so efficient defensively. Whatever those statistics are that they go off of, I think they give

him the edge because that's all he is known for is playing just defense. Now, I could be wrong. I could be wrong, but I think that's really what it's based off because he is strictly a defensive player because on offense, he damned their liability.

He is. But here's the thing, Gil. Come on, say hi. Correct me if I'm wrong. If there was this vast discrepancy with the defensive rating per team, Timberwolves was 104.4. Wimby is 105.8.

But Wimby beats him in deflections, beats him in block shots, beats him in steals. I'm confused. And we're talking about with less time, too. That's what I'm saying. It's like, when you say defensive player, we're looking at the metrics. We're like,

clearly, this guy is doubling the production on defense as an individual and this is an individual award so what what are we missing like like like the six man huh my metrics on a six man had it kobe white so king and challenged me and go back all the way to when it first started. So I went all the way to 84. And then I went through everything and realized Maxie did deserve it. And the reason he deserved it, yes, Kobe was a plus 10 or plus 13. Maxie was a plus six. But the difference is from last year to this year, he became an all-star,

which is most improved. He improved. All-star. All three people whose production wasn't that high, they won an award, which that was the standout. So I caught that. That's why I said, I want to see the metrics

of what they're using so I can understand how they're voting. Yeah. Like I said, if there was something discrepancy, let's just say the Spurs were, when Wimby on the court was 110, 112, that's a big disparity. But when you look at the only thing that,

and it's like you said, Gil, it's defensive player. He's better in steals. He, is defensive player. He's better in steals. He's better in blocks. He's better in deflections. And you see, guys, they're a 3-0-1. And Wimby is back.

Them guys are, nah, I'm good. Let's go on out here by the three. I ain't messing with it. I don't want no parts of that, because I know he's going to throw it up in the stands. Speaking of Gobert, a reporter had a question for Ant-Man today, let's take a listen to what Ant had to say you got a tattoo of Rudy Gobert's face

anywhere on your body for the Timberwolves to guarantee win the championship this year, you would do it what part of your body would you get it on? you would do it? you can't get rid of it you can't erase it guaranteed tip yeah, that's my dog You can't get rid of it. You can't erase it. Guaranteed tip.

Yeah. That's my dog. Really? I'm going to be a chipless mofo? Man. For a ring? For a ring? I'll put a tattoo of Rudy right now for one more year in the NBA

give me one more new knee you don't even gotta let me play the NBA give me two new knees so I can just go out there and run again I'll get him right here I'll get him and then this baby right here on the other side oh man

little gobo junior some of the things Him and then his baby right here on the other side. Oh, man. Little Gopo Jr., right? Some of the things. Ocho, you got a tattoo? Listen, I already got 44. What's one more? It ain't going to matter. It definitely ain't going to matter.

For a championship? You know. Huh? You got one of those brands, Ocho? No, because I. You got a brand. I never had the opportunity to pledge, so I ain't got no brand.? No, because I... You got a brand? I never had one of those brand type dudes. So I ain't got no brand.

Yeah. Yeah, I ain't got no brand. Okay. Okay. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through

the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain, this is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran-Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.