Nightcap - Nightcap - Hour 1: Lakers can’t contend, Ingram leaves $40M on table, Travis Kelce retiring?

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson react to LeBron James, Luka Doncic and the Los Angeles Lakers losing 131-119 to the Utah Jazz and signing center Alex Len after the collapse of the Mark Williams trade. Later, Unc and Ocho discuss a report that Brandom Ingram declined $160M from the Pelicans to accept the Raptors $120M deal, Unc and Ocho debate if Kansas City Chiefs TE Travis Kelce should retire and much more!03:53 - Show start04:06 - Intro05:20 - Lakers v Jazz15:30 - Ingram signs extension with Raptors29:42 - Folks back in the NBA39:00 - Travis Kelce not ready to make a decision54:35 - Steelers Superfan trade tomlin or sell the team(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ocho, the Lakers lose big in Utah after dismantling Utah just a few days ago. They lose by 12, 131-119, snapping the six-game win streak. They head into the All-Star break, 32-20. The Lakers side, Alex Lynn, 7-foot tall, 250 pounds of sorriness. Oh, my bad. That wasn't what was in there. I just read it. That just came to me.

The Lakers needed much size and physicality, which he did not provide. After the Knicks trade with Mark Williams and the Charlotte Hornets, they waived Christian Woods to create an open roster spot. He missed a season after recovering from offseason surgery. But tonight was a tough first start for Alex Land, who did not do a whole lot.

Got some good cardio in. Other than that, 22 minutes, two of five, two offensive rebounds. So he had seven rebounds, two assists, one block, and three personal fouls. Not much, not much, not much. It probably just met the team yesterday. The Lakers had no interior presence with help on the court. Loud, the Utah Jazz, they shoot 52% from the floor. Laurie Market, it was 11 of 18, 6 of 10 from the 3, 4, 4 from the free throw line.

32 points plus 35. Walker Kessler plus 23. He had 16 points. Jordan Clarkson had 23 points. He was plus 33. Tonight just wasn't it, Ocho. And we knew this was going to be a problem because of the ability to defend and right now they don't really have guys

you look at the guys they don't have defensive guys I don't know why they only allowed unless Jackson Hayes got hurt I don't know why he only played seven minutes but he left the ball game he didn't come back in

he was two or two from the field seven points no excuse me. Seven minutes with four points. But they can't defend no joke. Austin Reeves struggled

shooting the three tonight. So did Luka. But Luka's going to take a while. He's been out almost eight, seven weeks. Yeah, he's been out

for a minute. Yeah, since Christmas. So it's going to take him a while to get his rhythm back. But they didn't defend. And when you don't defend and you don't shoot the ball well,

you end up going down by 24, 26 points. He ended up losing by 12. But the game really wasn't defend. And when you don't defend and you don't shoot the ball well, you end up going down by 24, 26 points. You end up losing by 12. But the game really wasn't close. Don't let the final score fool you. The game was not this close. But listen, the Lakers, as opposed to the last game, as opposed to the last game,

the Lakers came out flat. They came out flat. They played very uninspired. Obviously, Jackson Hayes only getting seven minutes having, what, maybe four points? What was it? Four or six points? Something like that. Yeah, yeah, four points in seven minutes. Ever since he

was out of the game, I think he's the only defending presence that could really be inside the paint and be able to defend to some extent. After that, it was just a goddamn layup line, basically for the Utah Jazz. Layup and dunk. How many lobs did you see?

I mean, they're throwing lobs from out of bounds. It was lob city. It was lob city. Now, also, one of the things you have to notice about this game, too, when the Jazz played the Lakers the first time, they turned the ball over, I think, maybe 18, 19-plus times.

This game, they were able to protect the ball a little bit more. They didn't have as many turnovers. And obviously, with the Lakers coming out as flat as they did, and the Jazz being as efficient as they were able to protect the ball a little bit more. They didn't have as many turnovers. And obviously with the Lakers coming out as flat as they did and the Jazz being as efficient as they were from the line, I forgot, I think Coyier had 20, what was it? How do you say? Laurie Marketing.

Yeah, Marketing. And Young Bull was balling, man. Yeah, yeah. Young Bull was balling. Yeah, he's versatile. He can score. He can rebound. He can facilitate. Yeah.. Yeah, he's versatile. He can score. He can rebound. He can facilitate.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's been an all-star. He's been an all-star. We know Jordan Clarkson heated up with the best of them. John Collins had a nice game tonight, 17 points, eight rebounds and assists, two blocks. But, yeah, you could tell early on, though, Cho, the way the Lakers came out.

They came out really with no enthusiasm. They didn't defend. They didn't attack the basket. Look at the free throws. They missed 13. They crawled free throws, and you're 17 to 30. Yeah. I mean, listen, it's going to take Luka a little minute to get going,

to get his rhythm back. Also, you're going to have games like this. You're going to have games like this. It's hard to be on every single night. It's hard to be on every single night. It's hard to be on every single night. And tonight just happened to be one of those nights where he was. No, he had played well. He had, Reeves had really played well, say, the last eight to ten ball game.

He'd been really well, had a career-high 45 points. And when Luka and LeBron were both out of the game, played well the other night when Luca first got there. So yeah, he had a down night tonight. He didn't shoot the ball. He ended up with 15 or 11 assists. Did a great job of facilitating. Only had one turnover, so you can live with that. But he

didn't shoot the ball well. He was 1-10 from the three-point line. Jackson Hayes left with a facial contusion. So that's probably why you got a land plan probably more minutes than you really wanted him to play. Coloco also got nine minutes. But they just don't have bigs.

They don't have bodies to really throw at people. And the guys that they throw out there, that's all they're doing. They're throwing out there. Jackson Hayes is really a guy you don't I mean, none of their bigs you run offense for, Ocho. They run lobs. Get it off their A. You want points? Get it off the rim. Offensive rebound and put it back in. That's how you run offense for, Ocho. Right. They run lobs, get it off the rim. Hey, you want points?

Get it off the rim, offensive rebound, and put it back in. That's how you're going to get your points because we're not running anything for you. Right. Now, obviously, I think if Jackson Hayes is there, he's some type of defensive presence. Obviously, with his length, he's tall. And the Lakers just couldn't seem to keep up with the pace that the Jazz had the whole game. Well, you know what? They ended up taking the lead because the Jazz had a little scoring drought.

And that's what happened. You know, it's a game of runs. The Lakers got their run. And then all of a sudden, they relaxed. Wouldn't play any defense and lay up, lay up, dunk, lay up. 3-3, 3-3, 3-3. The next thing you know, the game is blown wide open. But they're going to have to do a better job.

JJ's going to have to find a combination. Look, he's searching right now. Right. The three guys that you know are going to start is probably Reed, Luka, and LeBron. We'll see mix and match with Jackson Hayes. Probably Rui's going to be the other guy that starts. Right.

But Vanderbilt's got, ooh. Ooh. That rough on him tonight. Brody got in at mop-up time, got him a nine quick point, hit two threes, one or two from the free throw line. Nice little float up, like, look, float in the paint. He look good. Yeah.

He look very comfortable. Yeah. Look very comfortable, very poor, very confident, especially in the shot selection. Yeah, but it's hard for me to believe that Dwight Howard wouldn't be better than Alex Lynn. it's hard for me to believe that the white how it wouldn't be better than than than alex lean it's hard for me to believe i ain't saying he's gonna be we don't need the white see people think about what you keep talking about the white you don't need the white howard to be orlando magic the white howard right he can't nor should you expect that from him but what they got so you can't tell me Dwight Hines can't be better than the Coloco?

Really? He can't be better than Alex Lynn? That's all we're asking. Be better than that. Not be All-NBA. Right. Not be Defensive Player

of the Year. Right. Not be that. Right. Just be better than that. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I see what you're saying. Okay, I have a question

for you then. So how long, obviously, we have the All-Star break coming up right now. How long is Blake just figured out? How long does Lakers figure it out? How long

does JJ figure out what pieces he needs to be able to contend each and every night? Well, you're not contending. This team, this roster is not built to contend.

Okay. It all depends on who you get in the first round matchup. Right. You might can steal. I mean, Luke and LeBron

might can steal it, but that's as far as you're going. Right. You're not beating any team to have, you're not going to be OKC. Not with this.

Right. You're definitely not – and what you going to do with Yoke? Now, Jamal Murray went crazy tonight. He had 55. Yeah. Yoke had a quiet night. He said, Jamal, I've been carrying – I've been doing what I do. Go ahead and have a little fun.

Go ahead and take it over. And he dropped 55. And everybody knows Jamal Murray can get hibachi hot. Yeah. And he got that front. Hey, you go ahead and take it over. And he dropped 55. And everybody knows Jamal Murr can get hibachi hot. Yeah. And he got that tonight. Right. But, no, they're not really, you know, doing anything. Not with this roster.

Now, like I said, LeBron and Luka could probably get hot and can steal you a series. But after that, that's where the buck stops. They're not good enough to really do anything. They don't defend at a high enough level. Right. Now, they can't control the clock. They control the pace of the game.

Both of these guys with the ball in their hands can control it. But I just don't see enough on the defensive end. Right. Because at the end of the day, it still comes down to defense

winning championships. And they don't have nearly enough. So... Damn. They're going to the break on the loss but they had won six straight so they went last six or seven and uh 131 to 119 they have to be pleased they're 32 and 20 uh a lot better than what they were last year at the all-star game uh we'll see what they do lucas get some time off um LeBron is the only one going to the All-Star game. So it'll be interesting to see what the guys do with their time going into the break.

But I ain't like what I saw tonight. I ain't even like that. I ain't even hold you on that, Ocho. I ain't like what I saw tonight. Listen, it's so funny how the game of basketball works. Listen, you play two, three nights ago, however many nights it was, you come back playing the exact same team, exact same personnel, and you come out completely flat.

You look completely different. Turnovers. You did. They did. Turnovers. You went and turned over. And they didn't get back. Nobody got back.

They're loafing like, oh, ba baby, I ain't getting no foul. And they moping. And, you know, I wish LeBron would stop doing that. Because sometimes, you know, he turns the ball over. He doesn't get a call that he thought he should have got. Bro, get back. And he lagging back. And then they bust a three.

Well, you got to understand now. He's a little old in age now. You know, having to shoot back down that court every time a ball is turned over. No, I ain't saying. Hey, all I'm saying ball is turned over when you... No, I ain't saying... All I'm saying is don't walk. Okay, okay. I ain't saying you gotta be Speedy Gonzalez, but just don't walk. Just don't walk. Give me a little bit

more effort because the guys are looking. You can't miss a shot, get mad, then call a foul, mope down, and then shrug the shoulder. A lot of teams call a transition. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. I got you. Brandon Ingram

declined $160 million with the Pelicans only to accept $120 million with the Raptors. But listen, I have a question. I don't know

in what world. Chat, y'all stay with me real quick now. I don't know in what world where it's that bad where you leave $40 million on the table and choose to go somewhere now. I don't know in what world where it's that bad where you leave $40 million

on the table and choose to go somewhere else. You ain't nobody finna sit and tell me listen, I just left New Orleans for a week, six, seven days straight. You ain't finna tell me based on what I saw in that wonderful city, culture, the people, the food,

the architecture, the history that you don't want to be there. You ain't playing basketball. The people, the food, the architecture, the history. You ain't playing basketball. That you don't want to be there. You ain't playing basketball. What, the devil is alive? Who? You just saw Tyreek. You just saw Tyreek complain, making 32 million in Miami with all that water,

with all that nice weather, with all the women down there. He complaining. Now, you want to try again? Now, wait a minute. Now, listen. Now, that happens in the orange. You talk about two different scenarios. You talk about a Tyreek Hill

that just came off a season that was nothing like he felt it should have been. You had a quarterback that got in hurt. He wasn't getting the ball like he felt he should. He was frustrated. Stay with me. He was frustrated about, for one, not putting up the numbers he should.

Two, not getting the ball the way he should. And three, he got in front of that camera before he cooled down. That's calling the rule number one. After the game, you make sure you go take a shower and calm down before you say anything you shouldn't say before you get in front of that camera. Now, you're not supposed to tell me that New Orleans is that bad. Even if you do play the game of basketball, to the point where, you know what? I'm not coming back here.

I'm not signing here. I'm going to leave $40 million on the table. I'm going to go somewhere else and play for $120 million. Not going somewhere else. He went to Canada. He went to another country because he want to win. You say frustration. Who wants to be there?

You see Zion. You think Zion want to wants to be there? You see Zion. You think Zion want to be in New Orleans? I mean. I mean, hold on. Did Anthony Davis want to be in New Orleans? So I'm just trying to figure out the players that they've had that wanted to be there. You say you can't understand why. Because I want to win.

I can't win there. Well, listen. You know know what the onus that's that's on management management needs um make make it a place some kind of way some shape way film form or fashion where people want to come you need to do what you need to do because it's great for you ocho if you're a tourist I'm trying to win I ain't no goddamn tourist I'm from New Orleans you're a tourist you go down there for a couple of days

you get to eat the food but I'm saying these guys gotta live it they wanna win and New Orleans is not conducive for winning it's okay it's not a knock on the city but let me ask you a question what big time free agent signed with New Orleans is knocking Deuce in for winning. It's okay. It's not a knock on the city. I got you.

But let me ask you a question. What big time free agent signed with New Orleans? You just said take your time. We got time. We just getting started. Tell me the big time free agent that signed with New Orleans. I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying, but you didn't hear what I said first.

The onus is on management, creating an environment where people want to come to. You know, there was a time where people didn't want to come to the Heat. You know, there was a time... They always wanted to come to the... First of all,

first of all, how many big... Don't think you traded for Jimmy Butler. I mean, you got Jimmy and LeBron. Once LeBron was...

But LeBron ended up being a trade, he did him a solid. Right. They didn't get KD. They didn't get no big... Other free agents. Yeah.

So why you over there huffing the public talking about coming to Miami? Where, when, who? Let me finish. Let me finish. Okay. There was a time when nobody wanted to come to Cincinnati. You know that?

Oh, don't nobody have a problem? They still don't. Man, stop playing. That's cool. Who? What big time free agents y'all got? All of them want to come. I said they want to come.

Who? The timing hasn't been right for them to. Who? No, you say they want to come. Who? I'm just telling been right for them to. Who? No, you say they want to come. Who? I'm just telling you. I'm not an owl. I don't sit on no tree. I can't turn my head all the way around. Oh, listen to me. Who? Listen to me. The big free agents

that have been available, you listen to me, that's where they wanted to go. They just didn't say anything publicly and it didn't work out in their favor. Why didn't they go? I just told you it didn't work out in their favor. Why?'t they go? I just told you it didn't work out in their favor. Why? Money. So in other words, they want to go

to Cincinnati knowing they're not going to get paid. Knowing Mike Brown has been cheap. Knowing the Bengals have been cheap their entire existence. Really? I'm just telling you. Now listen, who's the owner in New Orleans? Who's the owner?

Ms. Gail Benson. Mr. Benson? Wait Who's the owner? Miss Gail Benson. Mr. Benson? Wait. Miss Gail Benson. The husband died. New Orleans Saints? Gail? Yes.

Oh, man, that's the girl. You for real? Yeah. Man, I got to talk to Miss Benson. I got to talk to Miss Benson because, listen, what I saw in New New Orleans there's no reason why two things can't coexist the Pelicans having a winning a winning mentality and it all starts at the top to go along with the goddamn city that is winning itself I know but the hell I saw the past week I was out there I told you I'm from the seventh world I'm from uptown now I'm from uptown. Matter of fact, you want to go with me in March? For what? Uptown

Super Sunday. No. Let me ask you a question, Ocho. Talk to me. How many big time free agents signed with the Atlanta? Oh, you were there, Atlanta? Hey, that's a place to be, ain't it, O? How many big time for basketball free agents signed there?

Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me.

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It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company,

the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide

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There's no debate that this is the greatest global sports figure of our lifetime. Listen to Ali and me now on Audible. Hey, they don't have a winning environment. They have a winning city, though. The aesthetics are very pleasing outside of the arena. I can tell you that. I don't have a winning environment, huh? They have a winning city, though. The aesthetics are very pleasing outside of the arena. I can tell you that. I don't go there often. I'm just telling you what somebody told me.

I ain't telling you what I know. I'm telling you what I heard. Atlanta's a beautiful place, huh? So is Houston. What is Houston? What do you consider Houston, huh? Yeah, I like Houston. Okay, I know you like Houston.

I'm talking about the environment, the team. They're young. They're up and coming. I love what I'm doing with that team. Sunghoon is an all-star. I like Jalen Green. I mean, the guy is 20, what, 22 years of age, falling out. They got it.

Armin Thompson. They got Armand Thompson. They got a nice young squad. They got a nice young squad. Probably need one more veteran. You know, Van Fleet, I like Van Fleet. I like Brooks. They get out there. They play hard night in and night out.

They had a little rough patch where they lost about five or six games in a row. But you can deal with that. I think they're going to be just like the Texans. The Texans are going to be a place that you got a quarterback. You got Nico Collins. You got D'Amico Ryan, who has a great defense. You see they got Danell Hunter. They got Will Anderson Jr. They got Stingley Jr.

They got some nice pieces. They got some nice pieces. They do. They're a few players away. They were able to lure Laramie Tunsil. Yeah. The problem that they had

is that Bill O'Brien ruined it when he traded a damn running back for an all-pro wide receiver. Where the hell they do that at? Right. I never understood that.

And then you had the situation with Deshaun. You had a situation with Deshaun. Right. And we don't need to get into it, but we know what happened. And that kind of set them back for a year or two. But they were able to get CJ.

CJ looks to be what he's supposed to be. Had a little down year this year. But I expect them to bounce back and play better next year. We'll see what they do. They lost a lot of their receivers. Tank Dale got injured. Stephon Diggs got injured. But I love the addition of Joe Mixon.

They're a couple of pieces away. They're going to be right back in the mix. But I think that's the thing. Listen, Brandon Ingram did not make this decision, didn't take this decision lightly. It wasn't, oh, man, okay, fine. He had been sitting there for an extended period of time. And he realizes, he said, first of all,

the guy that y'all want to build this thing around, he can't stay healthy. Now, for the most part, Brandon Ingram hadn't stayed healthy either. So let's be all the way with that. So he, I mean, I understand he's looking at Zion, and Zion can't stay healthy, but Brandon Ingram missed a lot of time also. And Pelican fans, y'all know that.

So it was like, man, let me go ahead and bounce. I go to a team, you know, they got Scottie Barnes. I like Scottie. They got that. I mean, look, I hate calling a man last name. 40 million? Huh? How you leave 40 million on the table? Come on a man last name. 40 million? But, uh, huh? How you leave 40 million on the table?

Come on, man. What are we doing? Look, Ochi, the biggest mistake that I made a lot of times is that I put myself in that situation. You can't put yourself in that situation. You wouldn't have. But, oh, money can't buy happiness. The man ain't happy. Listen, money can't buy you happiness. But you know what money can't buy happiness the man ain't happy listen money can't buy you happiness

but you know what money can't buy you it can buy you time it can buy you time he done bought a hat all the time he would have spent in there boy you know what hey

look at what you call him look at what's the guy's name? Talk to me. Look at Melinda Gates. Bill Gates worth $200 billion. $200 billion.

She said, I'm gone. Bagels, I'm gone. You know what? But you said money can buy happiness. I don't even like the fact that you brought that up. I'm just saying. Listen, the fact that we have billionaires in this world, the fact that we have billionaires in this world,

and one of the things with little girls growing up, they're taught, I'm just saying. Listen, the fact that we have billionaires in this world, the fact that we have billionaires in this world, and one of the things with little girls growing up, they're taught you got to find someone that's able to provide and provide you with stability. If Bill Gates and a few other billionaires that I named not too long ago on one of the shows have not been able to keep a woman happy long term, they just haven't. What chance do us normal folks have?

Well, you got to be happy. Ocho, you make it seem like it's all of the women. Men get divorced too. Men leave relationships. I ain't never seen I ain't never. Don't do that. When's the last time you seen a man initiated a divorce? I ain't seen ice in a very long

time more more time more times than not it is the woman initiated right but it's the woman that's also getting fed up right with something right so it's not something that she did shit women don't haphazardly do things women are very methodical very very thoughtful mm-hmm they're not just rushing

out. See, a guy will leave a great woman for a fine thing. That's how women think. Women don't think like that. Women are very methodical. Women are very meticulous.

When a woman leaves a man, and they've been in a relationship for an extended period of time, she's had it up to here. Right. Now, you notice I said here. Yeah. Because when she had it up to here, she stayed. Right. When she get to here. Right.

Also, what you need to understand, too, Uncle, you got to think about this. When a woman is fed up, before she gets to here and she's right here, all her checks and ducks got to be in a row. All her I's got to be dotted and all her T's got to be crossed before she gets to here so she can exit. The plan has to be played out completely. She can't leave until she knows exactly what plan B is. Yeah. And then she's going to execute herself. Because you can't leave and then be dead in the water. Which is is. Yeah. And they're going to execute itself because you can't leave and they'd be dead in the water, which is why.

No. When we talk about billionaires and their wives and marriage and divorce, you notice they always take half with them, right? Yeah. I mean, a lot of times they're like, look here,

I ain't taking half because neither one of them had prenups. So theoretically, they could have got a big old chunk. They could have got more than what they got. Right.

Now, 40, 50 billion, they could have got a big old chunk. They could have got more than what they got. Now, $40-50 billion, that ain't nothing to laugh at. But I think the thing is a lot of times when women, women already, see, women will already have told you what they're unhappy about and, you know, fix it. Right.

We ain't listening. And they're like, man, I don't know what happened. Well, she kind of told you. Yeah. And she dropped breadcrumbs. Not only did she tell you, she dropped breadcrumbs that made a loaf. Mm-hmm. Over time.

But you didn't hear her. You made the loaf over time now. Yes. You ain't got to do it. Oh, Joe. Yeah, talk to me. First overall pick, Markel Fultz is back in the NBA. Fultz has agreed to a contract with the Sacramento Kings.

The 26-year-old guard has spent the first half of the season without a deal following an expiration of his rookie contract extension in summer of 24. He could see early play in time if the squad tries to fill the boy a point guard left by De'Aaron Fox, who was traded to the Spurs. Will Fultz ever be able to show why he was the former? No. No, he's never.

Wait, is it? That ship is sailed. Is it here? Is it still here? What if here is fixed now? I think that's a barrier he couldn't get past. Hold on. Mentally.

Didn't they take him over Jason Tatum? They took him over Jason Tatum. He was like that, huh? Never forget. He was like that. It took him over Jason Tatum. He was like that, huh? Never forget, he was like that. The reason they took him over Jason Tatum is based on what he showed. Ocho, that shot. You

don't normally take a guy with that with a shot that looked that defected. The mechanics. Right. Come on, Ocho. We can't talk about that. You're in. More times than not. Ain't nobody... Listen, no matter how good he is, I don't believe a number one receiver

is going number one overall as a body catcher. Right. You gotta be able to pluck the ball. You gotta be able to play in traffic. You gotta be able to transition. So if you got that many flaws, number one overall? I mean, listen.

Shots can be fixed. Lethal Shooter is right there down the street. He's not too far. You get with him in the offseason if it's that big of a problem. Hell, Sean Marion, remember his shot? He went first overall, though.

See, that's the thing, Ochoa. If you take a guy like that, Ochoa, you take a guy like 15, 16, think about it. You take a guy number one overall, he's supposed to be franchise changing. He's supposed to be LeBron, Shaq. That's what he,

Akeem, Wilt, Kareem, Magic Johnson. That's what they're supposed to be. Dwight Howard, franchise altering. He wasn't that. AI. I have a question. Based on what you saw, coming out of college, you didn't think franchise altering. He wasn't that. AI. I have a question.

Based on just the folks coming out of college, you didn't think once he got where he was going, he was going to be franchise changing based on the film that he put up in college? Well, I looked at him.

I mean, he was like a lot of hit or miss. But I was just always leery of that shot. Okay. It just concerned me. It did. You think somebody would have took Sean Merriman number one overall?

He would have had. No, you don't. Hold on, hold on. He would have had to be extremely dominant in other. He was an outstanding defender. Yeah. I mean. He turned himself into.

With that shot, he turned himself into a decent shooter. Can make threes. Yeah. But he could defend, he could rebound. It's just hard to know. Too much time has passed for him to live up to where he was selected, the slot that he was selected at. No, he's not living up to that. Now, hopefully he can have a serviceable career moving forward. Oh, so he was out of the league.

Yeah. He was out of the league for the first half of the season. What guy you know that's out of the league for the first half of the season all of a sudden comes back and you're like, well, you know what? We sure made a mistake on him. It doesn't happen like that.

I mean, it's... Well, listen, I'm hoping he comes back and makes a difference. He feels in that role in SAC that Darian... De'Aaron. De'Aaron

Fox leaves and he can come in and be efficient and be somewhat, if not what we thought he would be, be something close to it. Right.

But here's the thing. You can have a quirky shot a la Ben Simmons. Yeah. But normally you need to be 6'10". Ben Simmons was an all-NBA defender. Right. He was an all-star. Yeah.

6'10". Could handle the ball. But you see, eventually that caught up with him. Yeah. Because he became afraid to shoot the ball. But you see, eventually that caught up with him. Yeah. Because he became afraid to shoot the basketball. You see, I can't teach you how to shoot if you're afraid. See, I can't teach you how to swim if you're afraid. If you're afraid of the water, you can't learn how to swim.

You heard what you just said? Ben Simmons was scared to what? Mark had to shoot. He became scared to do also what? So guess where that starts from? Well, he's scared to go to the basket because he didn't want to get fouled. He didn't want to get fouled?

Yeah. This is a contact sport. It's a physical game. How could you not get fouled? Well, now I'm going to send you to the free throw line. Oh, so we don't want to? Again. Yeah, see?

Guess where that starts at? Yeah. Mentally. They're already beat mentally before they even get to the game. So you can't even play the game freely because there are certain parts of your game you don't want to get exposed.

Yeah, I just... People even play. I just thought Ben Simmons didn't work hard enough on his game. It's hard because I see guys... Look at Austin Reeves. Yeah. Austin Reeves has gotten better and better.

An undrafted free agent has gotten better and better and better and better. It's hard for a guy to not get incrementally better if he or she doesn't work on something. I have a question. I'm not saying you're fit to tell. I'm not fit to say the guy about to be Michael Jordan or Kobe. Right, right, right. But you can get better. Go back and look at Ben Simmons.

Ben Simmons ain't getting better in nothing offensively. As a matter of fact, the number went down. Also, the two, comparing the two, Austin Reeves has no choice but to get better. Austin Reeves has no choice but to improve. Austin Reeves is already behind the eight ball in general as a basketball player. Ben Simmons is what? Six what? How tall is Ben Simmons?

16. 16. Put the ball on the floor. Shoot, he can't shoot that well. He can defend. So there's a difference in Austin Reeves having to bust his ass to get to the point where he's at right now. He has to work harder.

Oh, see what you said? He has to work harder. You see what you said? So Ben Simmons came in as the number one pick and felt that, you know what? I ain't got to bust my ass. Exactly. Exactly. Which goes to my ass. Exactly. Exactly. Which goes to my point.

Right. It's hard not to get incrementally better if you work at something. You know, if I only collect one can a year, Ocho, in 50 years, I'm going to have 50 cans. Right. As opposed to not collecting any. I go two or three years and don't collect any. Guess what I'm going to have? Nothing.

Nothing. Yeah. And that's the thing to have? Nothing. Nothing. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's hard for me. There is no way. Six foot ten? Man, listen, man. Can handle the ball, can defend.

He can defend like four or five positions. He can guard a smaller point guard. He can guard a two, a three, a four. When I look at Ben Simmons, and I know chat don't get on me like this, but I see Ben Simmons, he should have been Jason Tatum before Jason Tatum. He should have been LeBron.

He should have been a bigger LeBron Magic Johnson because that's what he was. He's a point guard. He's a 6'10 point guard. And he can facilitate like crazy. Yes! Yes! That's what he should have been. And he can defend. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. That's crazy. That's what he should have been. Yeah. I mean. And he could defend. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. That's crazy.

That's crazy. Some of the biggest busts of all time in NBA history. And we use that term when we say bust. Obviously, you get to the NBA, there's a success. But when you are the first overall pick, you're supposed to be franchise altering. Anthony Bennett. Oh, Lord, have mercy for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Greg Oden.

Greg Oden, I think, would have been successful had his knees not gave out on him. Yeah, the injuries. Right, right, the injuries, yeah. My homeboy from Savannah, Purvis Ellison, his knees gave out on him. Markell Spolt. But he had a knee injury and a shoulder injury.

He tried to change his shot, but it just didn't work. But I wish the young man the best of luck. He can't be no more than, what, 26? 27 tops? Because he's got to be like the same age, oh, 26. So he's still, hey, hopefully a young fella can get a couple get a couple years mm-hmm

stick get an opportunity get some playing time because I've seen him I've seen him you know have good games right just not consistent

I mean I'm seeing I think I saw him one game he had a triple-double had like 20-something mm-hmm but playing at the pro level being a starter it's all about consistency.

Yeah. That's what it's about. Because any guy on a given, any of those 450 players on a given night, let me take that back, not the top, let's just say the top 75 players, we know what they can do. Right. But the other 250 can give you hell on a given night. The problem is they can't be consistent like the other 75, the top 75 can.

That's what separates. It's all about consistency. The restaurants that do the best business, what are they? They're consistent. The service, the quality of the food, the hospitality, consistency. That's what it's all about. Travis Kelsey isn't ready to make a decision on retirement following the Chiefs' Super Bowl loss to the Eagles in Super Bowl 59.

Speaking on his New Heights podcast, Kelsey said he's kicking everything down the road as it relates to deciding on his NFL future. It's just a tough reality. And, you know, I think I'm going to take some time to figure it out. And I think it ought to my teammates to do that. If I come back, that's going to be something that's wholehearted decision. And I'm not half-assing it.

And I'm fully and I'm fully here for them. I think I could play. It's just whether or not I'm motivated or it's the best decision for me as a man, as a human, as a person that takes on all that responsibility. Listen, as a man, as a human,

as a football player, as a competitor, knowing Travis Kelsey personally, understanding him, knowing how the season ended, the competitor in him is going back to get it done the right way. He's not going out like that. The last

taste of his mouth is not going to be defeat to the Steelers, especially with a scoreline like it was. Them 22 points don't even count. Is his body able? I get all that mine. Is his body able? You saw what you saw Ocho. Yeah. No, no, don't say yeah.

You saw what you saw this year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you. Okay. So let's be real. Let's have a fair conversation like we do everybody. Listen, can I take a little bit off my plate and still be able to eat when I need to? Can I take a little bit off my plate and still be able to eat when I need to? Can I take a little bit off my plate and still be able to eat when I need to?

Can I have Noah Gray take the chunk of the plate? No. No? That's Travis Kelsey. Great players don't get that luxury. What great player you know, did they allow you to do that in Cincinnati? Oh, no. So I want to know, you've covered this game, you've played this game.

What great player gets to take when he's playing a skilled position gets to say okay take some time bro you good

take some time off we ain't even worried about you because you know what the people in the stands all they see is 87 and they see Kelsey on the back and they expect him to be

that 10 time pro bowler that all pro that they're used to they won't accepttime pro bowler, that all pro that they're used to. They won't accept anything else. Right. I think we still get that. I'm just saying, I believe. Now, it's one thing for me to say it.

See, I'm not inside his body. Yeah. I'm not inside. It's one thing for me to say it based on, obviously, what we saw this year, the chemistry between him, the rapport between him and Mahomes, I think he can still do it I'm just saying now that's up to him but knowing

the way it ended he ain't going out like that I can tell you that Ocho the thing with great players and I was a pretty good player you just can't do Ocho you can't do it you can't do it with the regularity that you once could.

You see how he can summons it up one game, and then he'll disappear for four. He'll summons it up again, and he'll disappear for three. You see, in the playoffs, he had that one big game against Houston, and then the other two. You see what happens? That's what happens as you start to age. This is the funny thing. Even with him aging, even with him not being able to sum this up every game,

you have a quarterback that can overcome you not sum this up because every different game when the Kansas City Chiefs play, it's somebody else's day. One day it was Marquise Brown. One day it was Xavier Worthy. One day it was Noah Gray. One day it was Travis Kelsey. So you One day it was Xavier Worthy. One day it was Noah Gray. One day it was Travis Kelsey. So you talk about that Houston game where you went crazy.

Well, the following week, it wasn't on him. Somebody else had a day. That's the joy of having a quarterback like Patrick Mahomes. You ain't got to be on every single game. When you great, that ain't how it works for a guy that's great. You can't just be running around out there and you go three or four games catching one to two passes. That's what he was talking about.

Hey. You saw the man on the sideline last Super Bowl when he didn't get the ball. He was hot. You think that man going to be able to come out there and run around, put all that time in, and catch one to two balls a game? Yeah. Sometimes. And the fast twitch is not balls a game? Yeah. Sometimes. And the fast twitch is not there like it once

was. He barely got out of his stance. Guys were already moving. He was still in his stance. So, Chow, you watched the game. Everybody saw it. Chow, know I'm not making it up. Y'all saw what you saw. Hey, I understand what you're saying, but ain't nobody going out

like that. You know that. I know that. Regardless of what he, but ain't nobody going out like that. You know that. I know that. Regardless of what he said. See, you keep saying going out like that. What's to say it's not going to get worse? It's not going to get worse. How do you know? Well, the quarterback over there was number 15.

The head coach over there is last. Did he have a – so what number did he have on last year? And how did he look? What number did he have on last year? You know the competitor that young Bull is. You know what he is. You know he's not going out there. You know he's not going to say, you know what, okay, I'm done. I can tell you that. Now we can make a spot.

It's okay. Let me ask you a question. He comes back. What does that do? Does that change your perception of Travis Kelsey? Does that move him up or down your ranking? Because I got him as the GOAT right now. So I'm trying to figure out him coming back, what does that do? Does that change your perception of Travis Kelsey? Does that move him up or down your ranking? Because I got a message to go right now. So I'm trying to figure out, him coming back, making

another Pro Bowl, does that change your perception of Travis Kelsey, who and what he is? No, but that's not why he's coming back. It's not for him to change our perception on how we feel about him as a player. He's already solidified. What he's done is already concrete. He's coming back for him,

not for us. And he doesn't eat the taste. What can he do for himself to make himself feel good like, yeah. Go out on his terms, on the way he wants to go out, and not with a bad taste left in his mouth like this game has.

That's the only thing I can think of. I understand. I understand everything you the only thing I can think of. I understand. Do you believe Tom? Let me ask you a question. I understand everything you're saying. I'm with you. When Tom Brady walked away, do you believe Tom Brady can still play?

Under the right circumstances. He couldn't play at Tom Brady's level. See, that's what you're missing. See, you're looking at him just coming back being a guy. Right. A guy. Travis Kelsey coming back being a guy. Right. A guy. Travis Kelsey used to being the guy.

Tom Brady used to being the guy, not a guy. That's two different scenarios. Uh-huh. And Tom realized, I'm not Tom Brady anymore. And see, when you Tom Brady, you get measured to a younger Tom Brady, not to the guys that's playing now. Because Tom Brady still cannot play half the guys that's in the league. Yes, sir. But he couldn guys that's playing now. Right. Because Tom Brady still could outplay half the guys that's in the league.

Yes, sir. But he couldn't be that guy anymore. Right. So basically what you're saying you don't want him to go out like Aaron Rodgers. I'm like you

when it comes to that, but I know what I saw this year. Yes, sir. And I know the chat saw what they saw this year too. Yes, sir. I got you. And that was the hardest thing because I had to watch film on myself a lot.

And I just had to come to the conclusion. Now, I could have came back and played. I mean, I left my last year. I had over 700 yards, almost 800 yards. And I missed the last game. Had eight touchdowns. I just couldn't give it to you week to week. It's like the old ladies hey round two Shannon

alright on Saturday it's a Monday it's mine I get round two Saturday it's a Monday don't bother me I ain't got nothing for you Tuesday Wednesday Thursday I need to build back up I need to recharge I need to recharge. I need to recharge.

So, so you believe, you believe Tramp comes back? Oh man, let me give him a composure now. Hey, my goddamn AC not on, man. Okay, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I'm'm ready that was a good one so do do you believe you believe travis comes back yeah absolutely absolutely listen everything you hear right now

smoke that's that's that's that's smoke that ain't nothing but smoke that's smoke that's smoke that's smoke no no no he's taking time because guess what go back and look at the tape. Yeah. I know. I'm right. Ocho, it got harder and harder for him to create separation. Right. They had guys coming. In what lifetime would they ever put DeMar Hamlin on Travis Kelsey?

In what realm would they ever do that? Right. Where they would take linebackers and they would take safety and say, you got him. Yeah.

Huh? It's a complete mismatch in general, just in general. The Travis Kelsey we know. But I can tell you one thing, even the way he looks now, he won more matches than he lost. I can tell you that. He won more matches than he lost. But listen, I understand what he's saying. This is something that not very many players are given the opportunity or afforded the opportunity to be able to do,

to be able to decide whether they want to come back or not. Travis Kelsey is in a position similar to that of a quarterback. Yeah, but I think the thing for him with nothing left to prove, there are a lot of opportunities, be it in the media, be it in the movie, be it in the TV space. Right. There are a lot of opportunities, be it in the media, be it in the movies, be it in the TV space. Right, right. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists

to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance,

you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most

authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation

that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide.

And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra

affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second. I'm going to ask... I'm Leon Nafok, co-creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast Fiasco, Iran Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago,

but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see. Muhammad Ali was never afraid to express himself loudly and boldly and stays true to form in Ali and Me, an eight-part Audible original. Guided by his own words, this series explores Ali's life and legacy through never-before-heard audio recordings and discussions with those who knew him best.

Muhammad had this real sense of his own personal values and principles, things he believed in, his own sense of conviction. Those convictions never wavered. Hosted by Muhammad's wife, Lani Ali, and his close friend, award-winning broadcaster, John Ramsey, Ali and Me goes beyond the boxing ring to delve deeply into Ali's extraordinary life through conversations with Billy Crystal, Mike Tyson, Rosie Perez, Common, Will Smith, and Bob Costas. It created a North Star for me

of how I want to be in the world, you know. As a child, as a young person, he gave credence to my audacity. There's no debate that this is the greatest global sports figure of our lifetime. Listen to Ali and Me, now on Audible. I mean, Travis Kelsey is going to have an opportunity to make a lot of money. His podcast, New Heights with his brother, does extremely well. You know, you hear that he wants to get in TV, he wants to get in movies.

You talk about a guy that's 6'5", you know, statue-esque. We'll see how well he can act. He did a great job on Saturday Night Live. One of the best performances for an athlete that you're going to see. So it tells me he does have the chops

in order to do it. Right. But for me, if I'm him, I'm going to think long and hard. Right. Because,

and the thing I was telling, retirement is, there ain't no league that you can go to. It's not like golf. You can go to the senior circuit or you can go to tennis. They got a senior, you know, got a little thing that you go play and you see Phillip Hooses and McEnroe and Roddick and all those guys playing.

Sometimes you see Agassi jump out there. They're not that in football. And so retiring in football is final. I would take a month or two and think seriously, really hard. Am I going to put the time in? The time,

because as you get older, Ocho, now, you got to do things differently. You can't train the way you trained like you once could. Oh, yeah. Hey, you know, when you're young,

you can hit a lick at a promise. I hit a lick today and I promise I'm going to work harder tomorrow. Uh-uh. You don't work like that. You do diligence. You're eating. Needs to be on point. You're training.

I'm not saying you need to train smarter. Your body can't withstand that kind of intensity. And that's what I had to learn the hard way, Ocho. Because as I got older, I was still trying to train at that intensity. Not so much the intensity. It's the volume that got me. I still had the same intensity, but it was the volume that I was still trying to do. I was still trying to run 15, 20, 200s.

I was still trying to run 20, 25, 110s. I was still trying to do that volume at the intensity that I was doing in my 20s. Well, I got into my 30s tomorrow I had to may pop hamstrings I run two of them they may pop Ocho that's all I'm saying that's all I'm saying so that's the thing

you gotta factory in and so I don't want people and that's like I said that's And so, I don't want people, and that's, like I said, that's his call, but I don't want people like, man,

Trav stealing. He can't get open no more. Yeah. He ain't got nothing to prove. I promise you, if somebody would have told Travis Kemp, say, okay,

here you are. You a rookie. We're going to allow you to go to five Super Bowls. Uh-huh uh you'll be a 10-time pro bowler you'll be a four or five-time all pro and you'll win three super bowls and you'll be regarded as one of the two greatest tight ends to ever play right you say he turns that down said nah i want to play long does he take it or does he turn it down? And you're taking that. You know that. In a heart.

In a heart. So, it's definitely going to be interesting to see. But I can tell it bothered him. There's a lot

that bothered him this year. He didn't have the type of season that he wanted. He didn't have the individual success. Let me take that back. He didn't have the type of season that he wanted. He didn't have the individual success. Let me take that back. He didn't have the individual success.

He had the team success. They won the division again. They won the AFC again. They didn't win the Super Bowl, so that's the ultimate goal. But he wanted that 1,000 yards. He wanted those numbers. I mean, I don't even know how many touchdowns I mean I think

he might have had fewer than five touchdowns how many touchdowns did he have Ash? because he was on pace two years ago to get a thousand but remember

he sought out the final game Ocho because they were already slotted into the third seed then were to run the risk

of getting him injured and so he sought I think he was like 30 yards short of getting another 1,000, which would have been eight or nine consecutive 1,000-yard seasons. He had three touchdowns this year, Ocho. Three. Hey, listen, they get it done

offensively in a multitude of ways. That's all, that's all I got to say. But in order for this offense to really be effective,

he has to be dominant. When they got rid of Tyreek, he was dominant. Go back and look at it. I don't think

I'm lying. Steelers superfan pays for a billboard begging Art Rooney to trade Tomlin or sell the team the standard is mediocrity trade Tomlin or sell the team Rooney we've had enough the standard is mediocrity trade Tomlin or sell the team paid for by Kevin Adams

hey mediocrity 17 win season aboveity. 17 win season, above 500, 18, 17 win season. That's mediocrity. How many Super Bowl appearances? They haven't won a playoff game since 2016. It's 2025. Mediocrity. Let me ask you a question.

Yes. They let Tomlin go, right? Yeah. His name is Kevin Adams, huh? Kevin Adams? Yep. You let Tomlin go, right? Yeah. His name is Kevin Adams, huh? Kevin Adams? Yep. You let Tomlin go. Who you bring in?

What happens there? That's the same thing men and women do. I can't get out of a relationship because who I'm going to get to replace is what I got. And I'll stay in a bad relationship. You see what you did? You see? And you know what happened? 98% of the time, they leave that person thinking the grass is green on the other side

and be right there watering nothing but goddamn soil. But here's the thing, though, Ocho. If Mike Thomas say the standard is the standard, six Super Bowls, where is being above 500 the standard? Well, hold on. You said that. Hold on. All right.

Well, listen, we got to be realistic as well now. We have to be realistic as well. You have to build yourself up to having a Super Bowl team. You know what that takes? It takes personnel. You know what else that takes? It takes a quarterback. A quarterback that is consistent.

We don't have any question coming into the season, who's going to be a starter. There's different factors that come into play, even being able to get to the standard. So Mike Tomlin has no say in personnel. He has no say in free agency. He has no say in the Final 53. He has no say in anything. Draft? Yeah, he does.

He does. So he bears Yeah, he does. He does. So he bears some culpability. Yep. When Ben was getting old, when Ben was getting old, not the last year, but when Ben was getting old, did they go out and get another quarterback?

Nah. When Favre was getting old, what did the Packers do? They wouldn't got Rodgers. When Rodgers was getting old, what did they do, Ocho? They would not got Jordan Love. When Ben Roethlisberger was getting old, what did they do, Ocho? They went out and got Jordan Love. When Ben Roethlisberger was getting on,

what did they do? They let him wither on the vine. That's Tomlin. Let him wither on the vine. Oh, that's a good one. I ain't never heard that before. Wither on the vine. I'm just saying, I mean, when you watch the Steelers, when you look at the steelers at any point in time

do you say you know what that team go to the super bowl when was the last time you said it uh during my tenure and matter of fact during my tenure every every year we played them they were a team whose identity was their offense no their identity was their offense. No, their identity was their defense. They had the opportunity to go to the Super Bowl. Now, I haven't seen that. The game in general, the landscape of the game has changed in general as far as the Steelers, the Browns. No, they've been shifted. They shifted.

Once they got Ben, A.B., and Le'Veon, they were offensive-based teams. They were offensive, yeah. They were an offensive. They used to be a defensive-based team. Early in Ben's career, they were a defensive they were an offense they used to be a defensive base team early early in ben's career they were a defensive base football team they had troy they had rc they had uh uh ryan clark they had peasy uh you know they had those guys like uh uh foot um james farrier tim and right right yeah i i mean. Yeah, they haven't given us that feel

in a very long time. No. In a very long time. But in order to do that, in order to find that consistency again, it takes time. But here's the thing, Ocho. It takes drafting,

it takes all season acquisitions, it takes finding a quarterback, finding a franchise quarterback. That's where it all starts, huh? That's where it all starts. And you don't have a a quarterback, finding a franchise quarterback. That's where it all starts, huh? That's where it all starts. And you don't have a franchise quarterback, then you have to have a dominating defense. You got to have a dominating defense

and a quarterback that gets you by week to week and doesn't put your team in harm's way. That's hard. Let me ask you a question. Remember the year the Bears went to the Super Bowl, huh? Yeah. Who was the quarterback? Yeah.

Rex Grossman. Those days are over Ocho you ain't got a defense good enough to overcome that those days are over those days are over so I don't even know

why you would attempt to build your team like that because that's not happening they won't allow you to play that type brand of football anymore but

when you look but here's the problem that he has Lamar Jackson is 27 Joe Burrow is also in that division so while you go 9-8 every year or you go 10-7 what is that going to get you?

Patrick Mahomes is about to turn 30 Josh Allen is 28 so I'm just trying to figure out going to get you? Patrick Mahomes is about to turn 30. Josh Allen is 28. So I'm just trying to figure out what is that, what is 10 and 7 going to get you?

What is 9 and 8 going to get you? Oh, Steve, Mike Tomlin has never had a losing season. Right. I understand.

He ain't won a playoff game in nine years. Make sure you put that in, make sure you put that in the bio too. Mike Tomlin has never had a losing season.

He also hasn't won a playoff game since 2016. I just want to know what the alternative is. That's all. You cannot be afraid of the unknown. See, that's the problem. I can tell you what's going to happen with the unknown. Listen, we've been around this game long enough. You know what's going to happen.

Let him go and find out. Let what Kevin Adams wants to happen. They said that with Brett Favre. Did they say that with Brett Favre? Did they say that with Brett Favre? Yes or no? Did they say that with Aaron Rodgers? Yes or no?

You do know. I'll just ask you a simple question. You know we were able to see a simple side in what was coming after. No, you didn't. You knew question. You know we were able to see a sample size of what was coming after Brett Favre. No, you didn't. You knew it. You did not see. You saw Aaron Rodgers play one game when Brett Favre got hurt.

You didn't see no sample size. He played one game. Jordan Love played one game, and he looked terrible against Kansas City. Do you remember when Aaron Rodgers had COVID and he couldn't play, and you saw Jordan Love play against Kansas City? How did it look? Did you think saw Jordan Love play against Kansas City. Did you think Jordan Love, the Jordan Love that we see now, did you think he was going to be there after watching that Kansas City game?

I'm just asking. Alright. Don't listen to me. Don't listen to me. Listen to Kevin Adams and go ahead and let Coach go. Watch what happens. No, Ocho, at some point in time, Tennessee is not going to do it. I understand.

If your standard is playing for Lombardi's, they're not close. Yeah. Maybe a new voice. Why are they not close? It ain't the coach's fault. Because your coach ain't on the field. He ain't on the field. You know what you need. Was that the case?

Hold on. Wait. I got one for you right now. Look at all the teams that were in the playoffs this year. What is the common denominator? They all had what? At the helm, running the show. They all had what? A consistent what? A consistent quarterback.

Hey, the Chiefs, the Ravens, CJ Stroud and company, early round playoffs. Oh, it's funny that you said the Ravens. Dave Dames, he comes in and turns, and what did he do to the franchise? It's funny that you said the Ravens. I remember the Ravens had a quarterback in Joe Flacco, they took him to the Super Bowl. What did Ozzie Newsome do?

He drafted a quarterback! Oh, what was the last time he had a Lamar Jackson just sitting there in the draft? You drafted a quarterback, Ocho, because you don't wait till the quarterback wither. You don't wait till the fruit

fall off the tree. You see, you want to wait till the very end. Not me. Not me. Not me. Yes! Not me.

Because you say you fear the unknown. Oh, I don't fear the unknown. We talk about fire and fire and there's nothing in place. There's nothing in place. You ain't planting a seed but you want Tom to go. What? That's it? That's all?

You don't have any ducks in a row. Ocho. Let everybody go. Let them go. Okay, what's next next it doesn't always work out like that where you have the perfect well we got a ceo he's gonna retire and we got the ceo in waiting it doesn't work like that right that's a so if so in other words you want perfect life you know what you know hey this is what happens. We already...

No. It don't have to be perfect, but I damn sure want some answers. I want something to fall back on. I want that. And no, it ain't nothing to fall back on right now. I can tell you that. So you good?

So you good for the next 10 years, be nine and eight, 10 and seven? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Listen, I ain't got no horse in the race. I am not... I love the Steelers. I love't got no horse in the race. I am not. I love the Steelers. I love the fans. I love the people.

I love ownership. I love the coaches. I love the former players. I'm a Bengal. Listen, if they don't figure it out, that's better for us. Shit, I'm not tripping. That's better for us. Now, I'm just speaking, standing in the context that what Kevin Adams is saying, to let the man, let Mrs. Tomlin go.

Well, I mean, what's your backup plan? You got to have a backup plan. Listen, before a woman leave, she already knows what a backup plan is. Huh? Yes. Yeah. She don't just, she don't just up and leave, just up and leave and be like, okay, I'm back at square one. Now, what do I do?

That's not the way things work. That's not the way things operate, especially at that level. If a move can be made, they're going to have a strategy, an exit plan, before they just do it. As a fan, they just want, you know what, get him up out of here. He's got to go. I think the thing is, look,

the ruin is, this is a family business. They've owned the Steelers since 1933 with the exception of maybe a year or two. And that's where the McGlitchies purchased and I think they still have a share of the team, but for the most part, this is the Rooney's darling. Now they have some other

brothers that's in the casino business and things of that nature, but this is their baby. And guess what? Y'all ain't got no basketball team in Pittsburgh and your baseball team terrible. So guess what? The fans gonna come out. And the Rooney's, they've had

three coaches since 1969. Chuck Knoll, Bill Cowher, now Mike Tomlin. All of them, none of them got fired. they walked away on their own terms right the Rooney's are looking at it like

we're not bad they're just good enough to give the fans false hope you know they're not close hold on you know what you'd rather be the

you'd rather be the Steelers you'd rather be the Cowboys? Talking about false hope. Which is heavier, a ton of bricks or a ton of feathers? They weigh the same. The only difference is

the Steelers have been to the Super Bowl. They have been to an AFC Championship game. I think they lost to the Patriots. That might have been the last time they won a playoff game. I think they lost to the, they lost to the Patriots. That might have been the last time they won

a playoff game. It's just tough because this is not the Steelers that we're used to seeing. We're used to seeing the Steelers really like in 10, like really have a serious, legitimate chance

of getting to and winning a Super Bowl. And we haven't seen that. That's not something that we could say that we've been able to say for the last damn near decade, Ocho. Been a long time. Been a real long time. And it's not like

the Ravens are going to get worse. The Bengals are going to try to, hey, look, we're wasting Joe Burrow's prime years. Cleveland, Cleveland is Cleveland. Cleveland. Cleveland, Cleveland is Cleveland. Cleveland, Cleveland, the Browns are the Browns. But at some point in time, Ocho, all I'm saying is, I don't advocate anybody getting fired.

But all I am saying is this, at some point in time, 9-8, 10- 7 ain't going to cut it and lose it in the first round. You right. You right. I can't argue with that. The volume. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners

to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast. empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi.

We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran-Contra Affair.

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