Nightcap - Nightcap - Hour 1: Rockets Force Game 7 vs. Warriors + Gregg Popovich Steps Down as Spurs Coach

Episode Date: May 3, 2025

Shannon Sharpe, Chad "Ochocinco" Johnson and NBA Legend Robert Horry react to Round 1 of the NBA Playoffs featuring, the Houston Rockets forcing Game 7 vs. Stephen Curry and the Golden State Warriors, Gregg Popovich stepping down as San Antonio Spurs head coach, and much more!01:47 - Introduction04:30 - Rockets v Warriors30:20 - Knicks win the series42:00 - Pop steps out of coaching(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. Small but important ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company.

The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap.

If you love sports that has a series, the most important word you can have, Game 7. Everybody loves Game 7. If you're basketball, baseball, hockey, something that has a series in the playoffs, Game 7 is where it's at. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. Y'all know me. I'm your favorite uncle,

Shannon Sharp. My partner and co-host, the Liberty City legend, the Bengal Ring of Fame honoree, the Pro Bowler All-Pro, laced out like he just got off a plane from Hawaii. That's Chad Ocho Seco Johnson. And the guy that's joining us tonight, five-time NBA champ, Big Shot Bob from the University of Alabama, Houston Rockets, Phoenix, he had a little brief stay over there.

I mean, he had a cup of coffee in Phoenix. But, yeah, you all know I've been loving from his tent with the Lakers and the San Antonio Spurs. Here he is, ladies and gentlemen, Big Shot Bob, Mr. Robert Ory. Thanks for joining us. Man, thanks for having me, Unc. But you know what, Unc? I got to correct you, dog.

You short-trade me, man. Oh, Salvin, Salvin, I forgot about the Rockets. Come on, man. No, bro, you were right,vin. I forgot about the Rockets. Come on, man. No, bro. You were right, dude. I forgot about the Rockets. I was just thinking about the Lakers and the Spurs. You kicked it off way, way before.

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Game seven. The Rockets, yep, the Rockets are going back home thanks to a definitive. Now, don't let the score fool you, 115-108. But when they emptied the benches, I think, if I'm not mistaken, they were down by like 15. But the Rockets did an unbelievable job. They got great performances. Fred Van Fleet played 40 minutes.

He was 6-9 from the three, 9-9 from the free throw line, 29 big points. Shungun had 21 and 14 and six. He played outstanding. But, Rob, you know this. When you play on the road and you're trying to force a game seven or you're trying to close out a series, your stars, your guys that you count on need to play well. But you need to get some production from somebody you don't expect it.

Now, I don't know if this is the most points that Steven Adams has ever scored in a game. I know it's not the most rebounds or the most blocks, but this might be the most impactful game that he's played his entire career. And he's played a lot of playoff basketball games. He's played a lot of games. But tonight, I believe he was the difference maker because he got rebounds. He kept possessions alive. He blocked shot. He changed it. When they went to that big lineup with him and Shingun in there, that changed it. Go ahead, Rob.

You know, the one thing you can't teach is size. And I say that all the time. You know, you just change it. Your favorite team just went down because they elected not to use their size. And when you got a small team, Golden State is a small team. And you know, we know how strong Draymond is, but he ain't as strong as Steven Adams.

And Steven Adams, he'd be carving out that room, he'd be grabbing rebounds, he'd be pushing people out the way. He's an enforcer. When you got guys, if you look at this Rockets team, outside of Dillon and Ray Rishing-Goon, they're all little guys. And so you need protectors out there on that floor.

And that's what Steven Adams is. You know, shit, you look at Ja. Ja is missing that right now. So you need a guy like that. Ocho, I mean, you look at this. And I thought Jabari Smith Jr., he made like two or three buckets with the shot clock winding down. He had two big threes.

He had one streak. He got up big threes. He went one straight. He got up off the floor. There was a scramble for the ball. Brant Fleet gets it and kicks it back. He gets up off the floor. Hell, I thought it was Ray Allen for just a second. Not the scale of the game, but he gets up off the floor, and he cans a three.

As Golden State was trying to make their move, trying to create a turnover. I thought the bench was outstanding for the Houston Rockets tonight. I think they got 32 big points. No, 16, 33, 36 big points from the bench. The guys played really well. The starters played well. Brooks got in foul trouble.

And Udoka didn't have a choice but to send him to the bench. But I thought their backup played extremely well. Your role players, you got what you expected from Van Fleet. Outside of that first two games, he's been lights out from the three-point line. He's been going crazy. I mean, crazy. And then you got Shingun. He's an all-star for a reason.

He gave you that. And then you get Adams coming off the bench and giving you what he gave you. They got a lot of confidence because they won back-to-back games. They forced the game six. Now they forced a game seven. The Warriors had their work cut out for them. They went cold in that fourth quarter to start. They couldn't get anything to fall.

And a lead that was, what, three, four points all of a sudden went to 12. And the Rockets didn't let off the gas and they didn't look back. Ocho, the Warriors. Yeah. I thought Steph had it going. He got hot there for a second. Him and Jimmy. Yeah. But they didn had it going. He got got hot there for a second. Him and Jimmy. Yeah.

But they didn't get enough from the auxiliary players. Hey, man, listen, the Warriors, the stars showed up. They showed up. Obviously, we didn't we didn't see the Steph Curry

we're used to seeing. Obviously, he had 29 points, but it took 23 shots to get there. Jimmy Butler had 27. But listen, some goon, but young boy special young boy special.

And Van Fleet showed up tonight and did what he needed to do at being the veteran presence that the Rockets do have. Listen, them young boys look like they wanted it more, huh? Yeah. The intensity. They played on both sides of the floor. Spacing was really good.

And that goddamn Steven Adams, listen, he was probably the difference maker. When you talk about the size in which the Rockets have and how small the Warriors are, I think it comes down to making more shots. Because those second, what do you call it? The second chance point. The second attempt. Yeah.

Bingo. That's what I'm trying to say. The second attempt that the Rockets had is the reason why they won the game. And obviously, them playing with a little bit more fire, like they wanted a little bit more. Even though the experience of the Warriors, who have been in positions like this before, and had the experience with the Draymonds,

you know, the Jimmy Bullets that are used to being in playoff atmospheres, them young Bulls look like they wanted more. And listen, like you say, they got their stuff cut out for them, having to travel. Now they got to go to goddamn Houston and seal the deal. What is it?

You got to believe. Rudy T never underestimated the heart of a champion. I don't know if these Rockets are the champions, but that's what Rudy T coined the phrase, and it stuck. I think the thing is that when they went to that big lineup, because Draymond is undersized. You can't play Looney because he gives you nothing on offense. Post wasn't hitting any shots, so you can't play him.

So you're really trying to say, Draymond, I need you to keep 7'3", Steven Adams off the glass. I need you to keep 6'10", 6'11", Shingun off the glass. You're asking too much, and you see they started to wear him down over and over, over and over again, second-chance points. They did a great job of finding Shingun in the high post. And then guess what? He take one dribble, he drops it off to Steven Adams, a dunk.

Or he drops it off, he finds Thompson for a layup. He played extremely well tonight. I expected Van Fleet because they got to do something with Van Fleet. Because he's walking in shooting shoot-around threes. He's feeling that comfortable. You know, for me, I knew the Warriors were in trouble from jump

because anytime you change your lineup, that's like a sign to the other team like, oh, we don't know what to do with you. Now, the Rockets, you know, when you're that young, anything can give you emotion, give you spark, give you energy. They over there like, oh, we got them. They scared.

They changed their lineup. And you think about this, they changed their lineup, and then look what happened. They came out. They put Gary Payton Jr. in there because they wanted somebody to slow Van Fleet down. Why? You know, why change your lineup? Because you just talked about offense. You know, that change your life? Because you just talked about offense. You know,

that's no offense right there. And then you got Buddy Hill. We all know Buddy Hill is not a defensive player, but the one thing that Kerr is going to, he's going to do the same thing that J.J. Redick did and bite himself in the butt with it

by not playing Kaminga. Because you need size and you need athleticism to go up against this rocket team because they're athletic. Yeah, because you're mad and you need athleticism to go up against this, this rocket team because they're athletic. Yeah. You're going to, cause you mad at this dude. I don't know what's going on.

If you curse him out or something, he won't plan, but this is your third leading scorer on the team. He was his second leading scorer on the team until you got, um, but the Butler, but now you're not playing them. So I don't know what's going on right there,

but that's going to cost them in this series because now you're going to give the Rockets all type of energy and they're going to go back and probably win this series because you elected to do some dumb stuff like in game four. I mean, game five and game tonight. You know what? Before you go, what I think

for the Warriors, obviously going into game seven, what's going to have to happen in regards to what the Rockets do, I think it's going to have to be Jimmy Butler and it's going to have to be Curry. Curry is going to have to be a little bit more efficient from the field to overcome all the things that the Rockets do, whether they go big, whether they go small. The only thing you do is put

the goddamn ball in the bucket and have more points and just hope. Just hope. Whatever you can do, you got to lean on Curry. That's the only way. That's the only way game seven only way that's all the way game seven going going into. I don't know what state immediate that the Rockets play in in Houston. Toyota. The Toyota.

That's the only way it's going to happen. I think the thing is, I like what you know, he went to a zone and every time Steph got the ball, they trapped him. They said, no, bro, we don't. I don't care if you and I don't care if you're at the timeline. We don't get that ball out of your hand. Somebody else is going to be. Yes, we don't care if you're at the timeline. We're going to get that ball out of your hands. Somebody else is going to beat us. We don't believe in a moment like this here because, you know, there's a difference between hitting shots in game one, two, three, four, five

because this is an opportunity for advance. And now, like Ocho said, you're going to have to rely a little bit more on Curry and Butler because a lot of these guys haven't been in moments like this. Draymond has, but I'm not counting on Draymond to give me a whole bunch of points. I'm counting on him to give me somewhere between four and eight points. He'll give you six, seven rebounds, five, six, seven assists. That's what I'm expecting for him. But your production is going to have to come from Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry,

guys that have been in this moment. But I thought you definitely did a great thing. He went to the zone. He said, look, do not get back picked because they're going to try to come and send that back pick and have Curry floating. And they kept their eyes on him. They gave up a couple of, you know, backdoor cuts because, you know, I got eyes on Steph and guys snuck behind him.

Draymond got one. Jimmy Butler got one. A couple of guys out. But I give you that. The one thing I don't want to have happen is Steph Curry hit a couple of threes and he hit a couple early and he got the crowd into the game. I want to keep the crowd at bay as long as I possibly can. And then the longer you kept them at bay and then come to fourth quarter,

they couldn't buy a bucket. Steph had some great looks. Jimmy Butler had some great looks. And it just wouldn't go down for him. Hey, Rob, I mean, you could probably attest to this obviously being in that situation i am i consider precious situations obviously planning the playoffs going into a game seven but one of the things just from from me watching from the naked eye took three things that the that the warrior can clean up but one the turnovers they had 16

turnovers a night they get fouling They had goddamn Their 30 fouls And then under pressure Let's say Emay goes to zone again In game 7 Relax Tighten up under pressure Relax

Continue to run your offense To do things In a relaxed manner And if They trap If they trap Curry Every time he get the ball Everybody else

Including the supporting cast You got to hit your shots Yeah You got to hit your shots when it matters most. Yeah. You know, Steph got to hit his shots too. Six for 16 from three ain't going to cut it. You know, sometimes I know Steph is considered the best shooter

to ever play this game. A lot of his threes to me were bad threes. I know he said, oh, that's not a bad three for Curry, but to die was a bad three. You can get off the ball because you move so much and the Rockets only going to play defense for so long,

you can get a better shot. You know, that's the one thing about in the playoffs and I'm always harping on, you want an okay shot, a good shot, a great shot.

I know every time Steph touches the ball from anywhere in the gym, it's usually a somewhat great shot, but when you got a long defensive team like the Rockets,

those turn into good shots. I don't care how great of a shooter you are. And for me, that's one of the things they got to do. And for me, Draymond got to keep his cool because you don't know the little antics you do, that adds to the other team's spark too. And so for me, he's going into Houston, you know they're going to be

booing him, he's going to get amped up, he's going to have to play under control, Jimmy Butler's going to have to play under control, but they're going to be booing him he's going to get amped up he's going to have to play under control Jimmy Butler's going to play under control but they're going to have to go back to their starting lineup because that's how that's the rhythm they have because when you got a guy like Jimmy Butler who just came into your season and you change the lineup on him that can affect him because now okay how do I play with this dude I just learned how to play with this guy it's little intricacies like that that coaches don't think about that players need to know because I know,

like, I know what route you're going to run on the quarterback. And that's what, and then, think about that. Now, Jimmy's out there being the quarterback

and all of a sudden you got a guy that's not going to run to his point, meaning, you know, you're doing where you go. There's a depth on the route. It's like, okay,

what do I do now? It messes up the rhythm. So. I think that, hey, hey, Rob. Go ahead, O okay, what do I do now? It messes up the rhythm. So. I think that. Hey, hey, Rob. Go ahead, Ocho. No, I was just going to ask Rob. Obviously, listen, you can attest to this,

especially in a game situation like this. And you got an athletic player that can match up very well against the Rockets. Do you think Kerr plays Kaminga this game? A little bit more being that he. No. No? I don't think he's going to play him at all.

I don't know what that situation is but it's been bad you think about it since three games left in the season he hadn't he played him and he played him on the reason the other night because he needed someone and you know you think about if he didn't play him tonight and then in garbage minutes to try to let him get some type of rhythm he probably probably won't play him in game seven. So you'd rather, despite whatever situation they got going on, you'd rather chance losing game seven based on what you saw tonight and not make the necessary changes

to give your team the best chance to win? Hey, I wouldn't do it. I've been playing him regardless because, you know, for me, when you're that talented and that athletic, I know you got to play him, man. So many coaches get pissed off at players and like, oh, I'm going to show you.

No, you're showing yourself because you only hurt your team. And I think that's one of the mistakes that coaches make. It's just hard for me to fathom that you really have your pride getting in the way of you getting the dub. Yeah, well, look,

we've all played this sport for a long time, and coaches would rather lose their way than win some other way. It's just the way it is. And the part of coaching is coaching. Sometimes you're like, okay, this is what we're going to do. But a really good coach will say, well, you know what? That ain't working. That wasn't my original plan, but let me try to find something else to go.

Instead of being bullheaded, well, I said I wasn't going to play this guy. Well, I'm not playing this guy. It doesn't work like that. If you're going to be a coach, you've got to be a coach at all times. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride as a player, as a coach, whatever the case may be, in order to get the victory. And I thought tonight, I agree with you, Rob,

him changing the lineup, because even if you put, when you put Peyton in, yeah, you get defense, but the floor is not spaced as much as when you got Pazimic in there. So now all of a sudden the floor is a little bit more condensed. Yeah, you might get a little bit more on-ball pressure with Van Fleet, but what you're giving up on the other end, because you want as much space as you possibly can for your shooters,

like a Steph, like a Buddy Hill, like a Podzimski. But now it's condensed. Draymond is not a threat. They'll give Draymond. If you notice, like the last three games, Draymond take the first shot. They'll give him that three. They shoot that head. You're not going to make enough of those to put fear.

Ain't nobody going to say, hey, get a hand up. Don't even worry about it. Let him have that. Let him have that. Let him have that shot. I'm not getting, I don't want open looks for Steph. I don't want open looks for Buddy Hill and Pazemski. But here's the thing. Buddy Hill gave you zero tonight, so.

Yeah, Buddy gave you nothing. You said, Steph, I think to stay what makes Steph so dangerous and how he gets the crowd in is when that he takes those shots from 25, 30 feet away, and it's a bad shot for everybody else, and it goes in. Not only does it get the crowd going, it gets him going. So now he sees it goes in after he's taken a shot, and he turns and goes down before the ball goes through the net. Boy, you're in trouble.

You're in trouble when that starts happening because he feels it. And now there is no bad shot. If he see a couple of them names go in wrong, ain't no bad shot for him the rest of the night. Yeah, but if they don't go in, he's 6'16". Yeah. He needed, look, you got great production from him and Jimmy Butler.

Jimmy Butler, 12 or 14 from the free throw line. That's what Jimmy does. He's going to put pressure on you. He's going to attack. They needed one other player. Draymond gave him eight. Buddy gave him nothing. GP, the second, gave him five points.

That's not enough. I thought Moody would get more minutes because he came in here as a big three. I thought Moody would get more minutes, Rob, than the 20 minutes that he got. 22 seconds. You know what's weird? Because Moody would get more minutes, Rob, than the 20 minutes that he got. 22 seconds. You know what's weird? Because Moody has been playing very well in this series.

You think about it. You want a guy that's going to give you 12 to 13 points and is active like he is. And he hasn't gotten as much play as I thought he would. You know, for me, you're going to start, keep him in the starting lineup. Do something. Let Buddy Hill, who's been coming off the bench all year,

keep coming off the bench. And it's just one of those things where, Steph, yo, we know this is your arena. We know it's your league. But sometimes defer. You know, I play with a lot of grace. And sometimes they come out like, yo, if you're knocking out of shots, I ain't taking no shots.

You carry us. And that's one of the things that Jimmy Butler's really good at, too, because he can get it going. And he will defer to other people. But that's one thing about Steph, though. Steph is not a guy that really defers because he doesn't have to. But I think when he goes in Houston, and that Houston crowd, and he's not knocking down them shots, he's going to have to be a facilitator

because he ain't going to be able to do it on his own. You know, people forget the Rockets are a defensive team because you got E-Mate back there. You got a lot of guys that know how to play defense that long the athletics. So you're going to have to share the basketball if they want to try to come back and win this series. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance,

you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible

and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that.

Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin.

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there's so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate

and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency.

Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second. I'm going to ask Attorney General... It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. I'm Leon Nafok, co-creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran-Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you.

Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, you got Thompson, who's long and athletic. Dylan Brooks is known as a defensive stopper. Eason, Stephen Adams. I mean, they got guys that can pressure the basketball, but I'm doing everything I possibly can to not let Steph get going early in that game seven, that's the last thing I want to do,

have like 10, 12 points in the first quarter. Now he gets an extended rest for the second, because you got to think about it, tonight he played 42 minutes. Steph don't normally play those kind of minutes. That's a lot of minutes for a guy at his age. People talk about LeBron age. Plus how he runs, because he's perpetual motion. He's not a guy that's taking a lot of minutes for a guy at his age. People talk about LeBron. Plus how he runs because he's perpetual motion.

He's not a guy that's taking a lot of breaks because he's working to get his shot. So he's from sideline to baseline to baseline. And then you forget, it's not two games, two rest days. It's play, off, play. So he only got one day of rest, 24 hours, playing back on that court. And then you got to fly.

It's a three-hour flight, maybe four, because you might not take off in San Francisco with all that damn fog sometimes. You can't get out of there. Fred Van Fleet in his last... What'd you say, Ocho? You said something? No, I was going to say the good thing about Steph, the chance of him having a game

like this, like tonight, where it takes him so many shots to even get to 29, 27, whatever points he had, he ain't going to double that. He's not going to have another game like that. I think he's going to be much more efficient. Buddy Hill is probably going to be much better. And they're probably going to get Buddy Hill

going early. And I really, for some reason, I don't know why, but Kerr really understanding. I'm sure Draymond and maybe Steph will probably talk to Kerr. But with great understanding, we need a little bit more help.

We need a little bit more size. You know, you got to do something and get Kaminga in there some kind of way before we be sitting at home in goddamn Cancun. I thought the Rockets

were playing for no reason. They put a lot of pressure on them. They shot 46 free throws, Bob. They shot 46 free throws. It's been a while since I seen the team shoot 46 free throws. But 16 of those went since I've seen the team shoot 46 free throws, but 16 of those went to Steve Adams, and a lot

of that had to do with because they were Hacker Adams. And, you know, down the stretch, he made them pay for that. He was making them. It's one of those things where you try to, you know, that's all that pop stuff. Remember Pop did that against Shaq and, you know, the Hacker Shaq. You got to think about

some of these guys, you make one, you make two, you got to go away from it because that guy has a little realm. You know, sometimes you want to trust the process. You talk about following your game plan. There's certain game plans you have to scrap. You know, Steven Adams, you know, his free throw percentage might be bad, but the dude, you look at his form,

the way he approaches it, everything is fundamentally sound. So he can knock them down. He just don't knock them down because he don't shoot a lot. So it looked like a percentage of bad. Right. The Rockets, excuse me, the Warriors shot 22 free throws. All of them came from three guys. Draymond was one for two.

Jimmy was 12 or 14. And Steph was five or six. So that tells me they're not nearly aggressive enough. When you only got three guys that take your free throw attempts, that means that's not who they are, though. That's not who they are. That's what you get from a jump shooting team. When you shoot jump shots, you don't go to the free throw line.

And the thing about, you know, you talk about analytics of basketball, shooting threes. I've always had the mindset if you're shooting the threes, you're playing soft. Why? Because you're not trying to create shots. You're not trying to get to the rack. So you're shooting the threes, you're playing soft. Why? Because you're not trying to create shots. You're not trying to get to the rack. So you're taking the easy way out.

So I'm just going to pull a four-three. Think about that. If I pull a four-three, that's easy. Now, if I had to cross on a spin, get to the rack, that's hard work. You think about Ant-Man. Ant-Man, he don't mind that work. You just saw he put in that work. And now you get to these guys wanting to shoot jump shots.

You're not going to get to the foul line. the only reason steph gets those fouls sometimes because if you watch closely he's causing the contact he's really good at that and also when he does that people yeah and i hate when he does that because a lot of times when he does it he's not even concentrating on the shot he's concentrating on the foul just take the damn shot to make the shot and you get fouled, so be it. Hey, Rob, I just want to say one thing about you talk about Curry being able to put the ball on the floor and create his own space and his own shot. You mentioned Anthony Edwards.

Ja Morant can do it as well. But you have to think about it. When you look at the landscape of all the teams in the NBA, including those in the playoffs, it's only maybe one or two players on each team that can do that, that can go ISO, that can put the ball on the floor and create their own shots so it's not that many of them so once you take that when you trap a player like a curry and they have to facilitate then now you got to get everybody that's involved and it puts pressure on them that i didn't i didn't know there's still a game of basketball and everybody like i'm told before everybody didn't have the green light to shoot

the ball that well no i just learned that i I'm thinking, well, hell, if I'm open, just shoot it. Nah. Hey, if you open, you're going to learn that. They helping out for your ass. That's why you open. Hey, they're going to play the percentages. They're going to let you take that shot. You know, you knock down two, then they might guard you.

Yeah, I ain't know all that. Brad Van Fleet, last three games, he had 29 points. He had six threes tonight. 26 points, four made threes, 25 points, eight made threes. So his last, his last

three ball games, he's got 18 made threes. More points and threes than Steph. He's been, look, he's the veteran presence

on this team. He is the guy that's been in championship moments. He's the guy that's been on that stage in the Eastern Conference where they were been on that stage in the Eastern Conference where they were in the

Eastern Conference Finals. They went to a championship. They were led. Kawhi led them to an NBA title. He's the guy. So this is what he needs to do. Hey, follow me. Follow me. He's the leader. He did what he was supposed to do. He got great contribution

from Shingun. Now, Shingun is their best player. Yes. But the veteran presence. The best. Huh? The best. Yeah. Best.

Yes. Better than Jalen Green. Yes. Why don't you talk to him? Yeah. Jalen Green has only had one good game so far in his playoffs. Yes. He was three of 11, one for six.

He had 12 points. Shingun is an all-star. I'm just talking about you. I know Shingun is an all-star, but I'm just saying Jalen Green is supposed to be that next up-and-coming, that boy in Houston. Am I mistaken? No, you're not mistaken, but we're talking about right

now. We're talking about what you're supposed to be. Okay, okay, okay. I checked back with you three years. Shingun's still the best player because he's rebounding, he's now. We ain't talking about what you're supposed to be here. On the floor. If you want to talk about totality, Shingun's still the best player because he's rebounding, he's scoring points, he's getting assists. Jalen Green is just a high flyer right now. That's all he's living off of. He's got to do more

than try to, you know. That's the one thing there, but I've watched the NBA now. There are so many guys that have become showmen instead of playing the damn game. They want to do all these antics when they hit a three. They want to, youmen instead of playing the damn game. They want to do all these antics from the hit of three. They want to, you know, it's just play the damn game. You know, you make a damn shot, big damn deal. You know, you get back and play some defense.

How many times have you seen a guy throw up an antics and get his ass beat on the other end of the defense because they're doing this shit? Just get back and play. And that's one thing that you watch Jalen Green, he has a tendency to try to get to the hole, look at the crowd, and next thing you know, get your ass back on defense.

So that's why Shingun, he's just a hard worker, man. He in that paint, he dunking on people, he can get people involved. He's the best player on that team. They thought it was going to be Jalen Green, but Shingun has taken over. Shingun, he leads the Rockets in points, rebounds, assists, and steals in the playoffs. Jalen Bronson, game went over the Pistons.

What a shot, what a moment. The Knicks win the series. Rob, you're one of the great clutch shot shooters. Let me ask you this. I think for our audience, they want to know. In that moment, are you thinking like, man, if I make this shot, I'm a hero. If I miss it, are you just going through this? It's the same whether the moment is there or not.

It's just like if it was the first quarter, the second quarter, third quarter. What goes through your head when you're taking a shot that could potentially win you the game or lose you the game? You don't think about anything, man, because it's just like when you're in a gym, you're taking all these shots to prepare for this moment. You put the reps in, and that's what you got to do. That's why you see guys, you know, you take Kobe, for instance, he's been in the gym 24-7, so everything came easy. And if you put in the time and the work and the sacrifice, these moments like this, you don't even think about it. You think about Jalen Brunson. Most guys, they like going to the offhand to pull up for their jump shot

because you can square up a little bit better. He got you going left like you thought, oh, he's a strong left guy. He was setting them up. He's setting Thompson up. I'm coming right back over here to where I want to knock down this three. So it's just a process that you go through each and every day. And you watch him. He is so good at manipulating

the defense he can get you on your hip and then he can cause the contact or he can get you he can he can gauge your speed if you're going too fast he stops on the dime and pulls up and i think for him and any any guy who's playing this game long enough you don't think about it you just do it is it's just second next second nature thing to you, man. You just enjoy the moment, and you just hope that you make that mud so you can talk a lot of shit. He does a great job, Rob, as you mentioned. But he gets his body in such a position to shoot that shot.

Because like you said, he's a left-handed player, and most left-handed players are left-hand dominant. They're trying to get to that left side. They want to go left. He did that. And then if you notice, he stepped back and squared himself and let it go. He hit

a Schroeder. He got an A1 on Schroeder. And he got a tough step back. I mean, the way he can get his body in position to take and make tough shots for a guy his size. He's not a big guy i mean his body i mean

you know i'm saying he's you know he got a little little girth to him you know he got some but he's i mean he's what what you think six foot i think he's about six six one he's hit that but his ability and he's stronger than you think for a guy his size. Because the way he can put that shoulder in your chest and get that shot off and to square himself and to knock these shots down, he was sensational. They couldn't buy a basket for the first nine, ten minutes of the ball game. And then all of a sudden he said, man, just give me the ball. What y'all doing?

And every shot that needed to be taken and made, now they got a huge tip in by Bridges. Somebody missed a shot, and then they block out, and Bridges got the tip. They tied it up. But, you know, once they missed that shot, I said, oh, boy, y'all better get this ball. Because Thompson had just made a great defensive play

of like two possessions earlier. He got a shot clock violation on the cut. He went to go up, and he stripped him of the ball. He's like, yeah. Russell, I got something for you. I got something for clock violation on the copy. He went to go up and he stripped him of the ball. He's like, yeah. Brunson, I got something for you. I got something for you. Just hold that. Hold on. I got a question for you for Rob, man, for you and Unc, right? As great as Jalen

Brunson was in this series, as great as he's been, obviously being a very, very clutch player. Hell, he's just one NBA Clutch Player of the Year, right? Obviously, showing his offensive prowess tonight with 40. Is there any chance y'all giving the Knicks and winning this series against the Celtics? No.

Any chance? No. No. And the reason I say no is because when you look at the Celtics, they got six guys that can score. And every time I look at the Knicks, they remind me of AI. You know, they got this one guy that does all the scoring.

Everybody else does two or three things really, really good to make that play whole. And I do take out Bridges, who's one of my favorite players. When they use him and he's able to score, they're a totally different team. But I just think the Celtics has too much firepower.

And one of the things they don't talk about with the Celtics is, you look at them, they got four good defensive players out there on that court. And we don't talk about that because we're so caught up in all the threes they shoot. But you think about White, Holiday, even Brown, these guys are fucking good defenders. And so they got bodies to throw at Brunson with a short sale. And so that's bodies to throw at Bronson a little short sale. And so

that's going to be hard. And you know, going back to Bronson, the one thing that makes him really good is, this is going to sound really crazy, is left-handed players

are always have that ability to get to the line and do things because you're not used to that. Yeah. You hardly ever run across

a left-handed player. You think about Manu that you know I play with. He was so good because you think he's about to do something on his right. He's like, hardly ever run across a left-handed player. You think about Manu you know who I play with. He was so good because you think he's about to do something on his right hand

like, oh shit, he's left-handed. By the time you think about it, it's too fucking late. He's going to change you up. Yeah. Because it's just not what you're used to.

It's uncommon. But I just think the Knicks might win one game because they play hard. Yeah. Overall, I just think the Celtics,

yeah, it's going to be a gentleman's sweep, man. I just think the Celtics stay healthy. You's going to be a gentleman's sweep, man. I just think the Celtics stay healthy. They've been getting a little banged up in there, but I just think the Celtics are too good. Yeah, because when you look at it, think about where they go. They got Derek White that can defend.

They got Holiday that can defend. They got JB that can defend. They got Horford that can defend. Porzingis can protect the paint. And then they bring Pritchard off the bench that can score. Hauser that can defend. Porzingis can protect the paint. And then they bring Pritchard off the bench that can score. Hauser that can score. Cornette that can give you a little rebounding. They're loaded.

We know JT can defend if he have to, but he can score. JB can score. Derek White can score. They got scorers and they got defenders. So they're always going to have, at bare minimum, two quality defenders on the court at all times and so when you have that when you got two guys

that can defend but look what they start with so if they start Holiday you got Holiday Derek White JP Al Horford honestly

I'm going to tell you this I like the Knicks winning at least three games you got them winning three games? they ain't winning that many I got them winning three games I mean hey Raw you want to bet something on it? you want to throw a little throw a wage on it? what you want to bet? the Knicks winning at least three games. They winning three games? They winning that many. I got them winning three games. I mean,

hey, Raw, you want to bet some on it? You want to throw a little wage on it? What do you want to bet? Shit, make a lie to yourself. Bet $5,200.

That's very specific. Why you say $5,200? No, I'm just trying. I owe him $5,200, so I'm just trying to make it up some other kind of way. I'm trying to break even.

Rob, let me ask you this. Of all the game winners that you've hit, what's your favorite one? Lakers against the Kings. Kings. When the ball came by to you, that was game seven. That was game four. Game four. You know, we lose that game, we go down 3-1.

And the reason it's my favorite because if you look at most of my game winners, they were all done on the road. And so this one was done at home. You got a chance to rejoice, hit it with the crowd. Yeah, I grew up a huge Lakers fan, man. I grew up a big Magic Johnson fan. You know, you were never – being a Laker, you used to them chanting, Kobe, Kobe, or Shaq. You know, when you get a chance to knock down a big three're used to them chanting Kobe Kobe or Shaq

you know when you get a chance to knock down a big three and you hear them chant your name like that man it's the best feeling ever I think for me it's probably outside of Kobe's last game is the greatest moment in Staples slash crypto and every time I see the

shot from above and when I make it and the crowd just jumps up and cheers, I get goosebumps every time I see it. Even though I love what I did in 2005 against the Pistons in Game 5 when I lit their asses up. Yeah, that's the way I was thinking. Yeah, but you know, as an athlete, we all got that ego. We all got that pride.

You want to hear them fans chant your name. But I tell you what, I only have like one picture up. I don't even have that shot up in my house, but I do have the picture of me making that shot against the Pistons because I just like looking at the faces of the people in the crowd. You got some people like,

no, no. You got one guy in the crowd like this, like, yeah, because he knew it was going in. People, I don't know if people realize this, Rob, but before those black injuries, you were a hot flower. I mean, you were punching on folks. I mean, you were up on the top.

People look at you and they're like, man, all he did was shoot threes. No, no, no, no, no. When you came in, I mean, I don't know what it is about them Alabama guys. You and McNice, all them guys had up, up, up, and away ups. And I don't know if people realize that, but you were a hot flyer, a 6'10 guy that finished above the rim. And then you turned yourself, I think it was a back injury, that you turned yourself into more of a shooter.

You still could punch on folks, but not like you could when you first got to Houston. No, it's so weird when you come in the league funny stories like my my middle son he came to me one time like daddy you don't ever dunk anymore you can't even dunk and it's that one dunk in the playoffs against the detroit pistons that i dunked on real palmetto while i took out outside the paint yeah and i was like see your dad can still dunk i just don't have to but you know the weird part about it is when i got to the Lakers, they were like, oh, we don't want you to, you know, we need you to just spot up.

And the worst thing as an athlete, any athletes listening, is don't let coaches limit you in what you can do. And I think, you know, this day and age is a little bit different. Back then, it was a little bit more, I need you to do this, this, and this. And so in my mind, I became, okay, this is what they want me to do, spot up and shoot threes and all this kind of stuff. But I showed my youngest son, Christian,

who's at UCLA. I said, let me show you something, man. Come sit down. And I showed him my highlights of me in Rockets when I used to dunk. He looked at me like, damn, you had hops. I was like, yeah, I just stopped doing it because I didn't have room to do it

because Shaq was in the damn way. That's dope. That's live. Hey, Rob, with some of those clutch shots you hit, were you able, did you ever keep any of the balls?

No, man. Especially, I mean, you got some really, really really really good moments and for me i would want to keep those i would i would i personally would want to keep those balls you know you don't have any you know i i really i i have i have one um okay i have one from it's actually the game seven ball against the knicks i I have that. And the only reason I have that is because I told the guy, because the first two points of game seven was me dunking on Patrick Ewing. And I was like, I want that ball.

I want that ball. So I have that ball. And I wish I had the one I made against the Kings because, shit, if I lost it, if I banded you and lost, I'd just sell that and get me a lot of money to cover that. So I know you Laker fans would love that ball. Speaking of, you talk about balls and being able to sell a ball and get you a lot of money. Listen, I got a prized possession.

That's what I meant to say. I'm supposed to have it enclosed in a case, right? But I got the game ball when LeBron hit his 50th point. 50,000? Yeah, like, listen, 50,000 points. And that's something that you would think he would keep. Yeah, so it's a 50,000 points and that's something that you would think he would keep yeah so it's a 50,000 point ball right there

you see 50,000 points and LeBron signed it from you yeah yeah so I mean if I ever fall on hard times man is this here gonna come in handy

if you fall on hard times and try to steal that ball you gonna steal on hard times exactly you might end you fall on hard times and try to steal that ball, you're going to stay on hard times. Exactly. You might end up on real hard times. Greg Popovich stepped out as a coach of the San Antonio Spurs today, ending a nearly three-decade run that saw him lead the team to five championships.

He's the all-time winningest coach in NBA history, and he's a three-time coach of the year, and he's a Hall of Fame, won a gold medal, and he's inducted to the Basketball Hall of Fame. Rob, you played for Pop. What was it about Pop that made him special? What's going to be your lasting

memory of playing for Pop? I think for me, it's just how genuine he was. He was one of those coaches where he's one of those coaches where he'll yell at you and then take you to have some gnocchi and some wine. You know, his two favorite things. And for me, I think I tell this story all the time. The one thing that really made me fall in love with the guy was my daughter who passed away was really sick. My last year with the spurs and she

went into the hospital like at the beginning of the season and he was like don't don't come back until she's out of the hospital and i sat in the hospital with her for like three weeks and then she finally got out of the hospital and i came back like a day after he says she out of the hospital like yes she got home like two days ago he says she ain't out of the woods yet get back go back home you know we don't really need you right now. And I looked at him like, are you trying to get rid of me on the slide? He said, no, man, family first. You know, family first.

And that's what, that's how Pop always was, man. You know, I just heard the day about the story of DeMar DeRozan, his Pop's past. And that goes to show you, you know, there's some things bigger than a freaking game, right? And Pop realized that, you know, he was always about, you know, spending time with your family, doing what's important. And I remember even my last year, I went to him and I was like, you know, I want to ask a favor. He's like, what? I said, it's my last year. I said, can I, my son's on spring break. We're going on a road trip.

Can I bring my son with me? He's like, well, yeah, don't even ask me no questions like that. It's about the family. It's about doing things, and a lot of teams wouldn't let you do that. Wow. Because I remember the Lakers, back in the day, you said, hey, can you get the flight back? No, liability, you know, insurance thing. I'm like, what?

Is this a flight home? But Pop was, he was really, really good about, man, if it came down to your family, you do whatever is necessary for your family. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without

actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news

show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action, and that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms,

even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary.

We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there's so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second. I'm going to ask... I'm Leon Nafok, co-creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran Contra,

you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everybody talking about the relationship that he had with Duncan,

because I think Duncan was the linchpin because you could coach him Duncan hard. You can coach everybody else hard. And Timmy was receptive. And that's what you have. Timmy was one of these superstars that if you didn't watch the game, you would never know he was a superstar. He didn't dress like a superstar. Hell, I remember he showed up,

you pick up an MVP trophy with flip-flops and shorts on. I'm like, David Stern probably wanted to swing on Timmy. He had on shorts. You remember that, Bob? Yeah, he had on jeans shorts. Jeans shorts and flip-flops. And David Stern was like, hey. But that was Timmy.

What was it about Coach Pop and Tim's relationship that made it so unique and special? I think we're going to back this up a little bit because you really have to credit David Robinson. Okay. Because you think about he had David Robinson when Tim came and David was like, yo, this is what we do here. And Tim just follows suit. You know, Tim is just that type of guy. He doesn't say much. You can tell, if you talk about cars, he'll talk to you, talk about video games, he'll talk to you and talk about poker, those three things.

And he'll talk about that. He ain't gonna really talk to you. But for us, you know, we, we, it took me a year just to get him to say a couple of words to me. And, but he is just a, he, a he he is a type of guy who's really focused we don't you know we always talk about coley's work ethic we talk about this dude was always in the gym shooting jump shots you know uh i'm always trying to get to perfect that bank shot if you know he was famous for shooting a lot of free throws because you know he that was one of his um his downfalls was. One of his weaknesses when he came in. Yeah, yeah.

And he just, he worked hard, but he was just, if you talk about guys who, you know, I used to, I had to get onto him one time. I was like, dude, can you fucking yell at somebody, man? You sitting there like with your mouth closed, you know, you yell at someone, you're going to be like, yeah, fucking everybody's going to perk up and listen. So he was just, he was very mild-mannered.

Well, he's mild-mannered. he's mild-minded he didn't want to say much but the guy was he he competed and he he was and when he when he let you into his world one of the nicest guys you'll meet you mentioned the twin towers because uh uh david roberts was there but when david was there i mean they won them championship with david but david was on the tail end of his career that was that, I mean, basically the Tim Duncan team from the time he walked in the door. Oh, he was. He was just that good.

And he was one of the last guys that was a true senior that was the number one overall. Kenyon Martin was the last one, I think, in 2000. But Timmy was, what, 98? I think the 98 draft was Timmy's first year. But he was the last of those guys that went four years of college and came out. So he was more than ready,

more than prepared for the grind because basically he was a grown man when he wasn't 18, he wasn't 17. Tim Duncan was a 22 year old grown man when he got to the NBA. So you tell me something I did not know. I thought he came out early. You see everybody coming out early. That's the one thing I hate did not know. I thought he came out early. You just saw everybody coming out early.

That's the one thing I hate about the NBA. I know these dudes are freaking 21 when they get to college now. But I just wish that, I'm about to say David Stern, that Adam Silver would put like two years onto it. Because these guys, you can tell by the way these guys play now. That's why so many threes are being shot because they don't know how to play. They're doing what's easiest, taking the threes and not learning the game. You know, you got some guys that are going to come in the league

that know how to play the game because of the upbringing and how they were taught. But it's just a lot of bad basketball being played because guys don't know how to play. You know, you think about tonight, watching the game, like, dude, the first thing you learn in high school and college know how to play. You know, you think about tonight, watch the game, like, dude, the first thing you learn

in high school and college is how to beat the damn zone. The zone is the easiest freaking thing to beat and you can't beat the zone. It's like, go to the open spots,

go to the dunking spot, go back door and it just shows you right there that the guys aren't learning anything because they all just trying to,

you know, get to the next level to the league without learning something. Rob, you played with some of the greats. I mean, you was on a team with Tim Duncan.

You was on a team with Shaq and Kobe. You was on a team with a lot of Dream and Drexler. And I know people ask you, what – the difference between Dream and Duncan, the difference between Duncan and Shaq, the difference between Clyde and Kobe, what are some of the different – look, because, look, all of those guys that I just mentioned are 75 greatest players in NBA history. MVPs,

finals MVPs, defensive players of the year. When you got to the Rockets, what was it about the dream that you know, okay, this guy's special? What set him apart? Oh, shit. I knew dream was special when I watched him in high school. I mean, college. When I was coming special when I watched him in high school. I mean, in college.

When I was coming out, I said, I want to play alongside this guy. I was praying that I went to the Rockets. God willing, I did because you could just see his work ethic. You watch him. Guys always talk about going into the lab. Dream would be in the lab

and we didn't even know it. He would be working on stuff and then he'll just all of a sudden get in the lab and we didn't even know it. He would be working on stuff and then he'll just all of a sudden get in the game. You know, you think about in 95 how he annihilated David Robinson. Yeah, because he said they gave him the MVP for it.

Yeah. All that stuff we had never seen before. You should have seen us on the court. We're going like, oh, Caleb Dream, oh. We became fans on the court, right?

And so, and you watch him, man. He just played hard, man. You think about about you know back in the day when he you forget he used to knock some people out too oh yeah you know he had that toughness you know you elbow him he would he was because it's only a 50 fine and you'll punch someone in the face and so he had that toughness and he just had that the one thing about dream though is he we talk about how hard guys plays like how hard Giannis plays

how hard Bronson plays how hard these guys Dream play hard each and every night and you know people would talk about who's the greatest center who's this who's that Dream to me is always going to be top three centers because if he needed to shoot threes

he could have shot threes he didn't because he had us out there. And you couldn't stop him in the paint any damn way. So he's just going to kill you that way. So he was just, you know, he was just a hard worker. And more importantly, great guy. Because he taught me about the business of basketball. He was like, you know, I remember one time at a Christmas party, he took me outside and said, listen, you're going to be on this team now.

Let's talk about, you know, things outside of basketball. What you're doing with your money. You know, how's the family? You know, are you investing? Do you have the right people? He was just a good guy. You know, a lot of guys now, you know, they won't come to you and be like, yo, man, you need to check your finance.

You need to do this. They can be like, fuck you. I learned it on my own. You on your own. And so that's one of the things I loved about James. He taught me about the business of basketball. So you leave Houston

and you go to the, well, you know, you have, you didn't go right to, you got to go there, man. No, you got to talk about the signs, man. You got a little pit stop,

you got a little pit stop to sit and feed it. You have a cup of coffee at the airport. It got right back on the plane and went to L.A. So you get to L.A., Shaq and Kobe.

You're like, damn, got Shaq, got Kobe. What y'all need me to do? You know, it's weird. When I got there, man, I was looking at the team. We had Nick Van Exel at the point. Yep.

We had Eddie Jones at the two. I said, okay, I can play the three. You know, back then, I was a three man. Right. And I said, we got a young play the three. You know, back then I was a three man. Right. And I said, we got a young guy like this. You know, everybody's like, oh, you got to see this rookie, Kobe Bryant. I'm like, who?

And then you get to the practice, you see how good this dude is. Okay, he's learning. And then you got Shaq. You know, you say, okay, Shaq just got beat in nine and five in the finals. And you got all this talent. I said, oh, man, we got to do some work. I said, we're going to do some work for some years because everybody's young. Everybody's under 30. But sometimes

it goes to show you, too many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to basketball ain't good. You got to have some guys that are blue guys, some screw guys, you know, some boats and do the things to keep the team together. And you think about, we had four all-stars. And then we got swept by a damn team that had

been together for 30 years. Oh, you thought that was Kobe's rookie year, wasn't it? That was Kobe's rookie year, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. And then in that 99, we got beat by the Spurs, lost the last game in the form to the Spurs. And then that was when we got new coaches,

and we said we got rid of Nick, we got rid of Eddie, and we brought in defensive-minded people. You know, we brought harper we brought in b shaw we brought in rick fox we did all these things brought in on ac green and it was that glue was whole group was whole grant there then a whole grant only came for the last whole grant was on on the second championship in 2000 2001 right yeah so and it was just weird man you just and it goes to show you when you got too much talent it's hard to get away but when to show you when you got too much talent, it can get in the way. But when you got enough talent and you got guys who are mature

and you can tell Kobe and Shaq to shut up and sit your ass down and do what you're supposed to do, you think about it. We used to tell Kobe, no, dude, you ain't doing that tonight. Shaq, you ain't doing that. And they would listen to us

because we are veteran guys. You know, now you got this going on, guys, you know, respect us. We had a lot of respect for one another and it was no animosity. And people always ask me about the Kobe Shaq thing. I was like, man,

I must have been fucking blinded because they never had beef in front of us. It was all in the papers, man, you know. And that was the weirdest thing when people like would talk about it. I'm like, they in the locker room laughing and joking. They the first people to hug after a championship. I know

you want a championship. Who was the first person you hugged after you won a championship? It's probably your favorite player on the team. Yeah, absolutely. And so that's why I was like, they would say, oh, they're beefing. I'm like, when? Where? So it was just weird to me. How good was Shaq?

You look at Shaq, and I tell people, I don't think people realize how athletic Shaq was. When Shaq got to the league, like Shaq first five or six years, when Shaq was like 7'1", 325, and could move like a deer, we're never going to see that again. You're never going to see a guy his size with that kind of agility. You're just not. Now, you might have like a Yogi's got the footwork and Joel and me got footwork, but I'm talking about just raw athleticism and power.

Yeah. You're never going to see a Shaquille O'Neal again. Never. Yeah, never. You know, you think about if you start a team, if I could take the 2000, the 1999-2000 Shaq, the MVP Shaq, and have him him that Shaq and put him on

that's my first person not Jordan not Dream not Kareem that's the first person I picked to start my life I can get that Shaq because he was just

so dominant he was just so strong so athletic you think about this this guy can bring the ball down cross your spin

take off from outside the paint then monkey dunk on your ass and then you can do it. And you go back and look at a lot of tape, and I've heard this out of ref's mouth, so I'm sitting there. You can hear all you hear is on him, and he's not getting the call. They're like, oh, he's too big. He should be able to handle it.

I'm like, dude, it's a freaking foul. He's slapping his shell. I said, all right, y'all going to piss him off, and then I'm going to get out of the way way because he's going to start elbowing people. And you can tell when he got frustrated because he'll do that spin and put that elbow up. He comes like this here. He don't care who he hit. I'm like, so, yeah.

He was, like I said, if you got one player, one moment, I'm taking 1999, 2000 Shaq, and I'm starting a team with that guy if I can get that guy each and every night. Okay, Kobe. Kobe is 17. He gets there at 17. Now by the time they start to win championships, he's the Kobe. He's become what he became. And you get to see it on full display.

He can still elevate over the top. He got the middie. He can bop, bop, bop. Oh, he had the package. And if you need him to sit in the chair for 40 minutes and take the opposing team, point, two, three. Best player. And he wanted that challenge.

And, you know, I know you think LeBron is the greatest of all time. And people talk about MJ being the greatest of all time. I want you to think, when you watch Kobe Bryant, he did every freaking thing like MJ. And he probably took it to another level. Because Kobe, you know, when Kobe first came in the league, we used to laugh and joke and be like, you can't shoot threes. He didn't shoot threes like MJ.

But we would like joke with him. So that dude would be in the gym every morning at five o'clock shooting number threes. And now he can shoot threes. And it's things like that that why he was great. You could tell him

he was not good at something. He would prove you wrong by going in and working on it and adding it to his game. This dude, you know, God rest his soul, was the hardest working dude I've ever seen in my life. And you think about where he went from his rookie year

where he just played wow. You know, he didn't have no structure to his game. To understanding that, oh, I got to tone this down. I don't know if it's because he talked to MJ, he talked to Phil and whatnot. But when we got Phil, it made him more structured than I've ever seen before. So the dude was just phenomenal, man. So I hate when we talk about the GOAT and we never bring him up.

Like, because it's like, you know, to me, the GOATs are MJ, Colby, LeBron, and Kareem. Those are the GOATs. And why do we have to put one, one, two, one, three, and four? Those four guys right there. Why can't we have just four GOATs? That's the Mount Rushmore right there. Why didn't, playing on that team alongside Shaq and Colby, why didn't they win more individual MVPs?

Colby didn't win one until later, late like 2001, I think 2009 or 2010, he won the MVP. Why didn't they win? Why didn't Shaq win more MVPs? Why didn't Kobe win MVPs? Did they cancel each other out?

I don't think they canceled each other out. I just think, you know, if you look at the league back then, it was hard to win back-to-backs unless you was a white guy named Steve Nash. And so, you know, you think about that second Steve Nash.

Jack should have won that in Miami for real, though. Yeah. So, it's so many things you can look at. It's just weird. You know, you think about MJ when he was in the league. He didn't win it every year. You know, it's always someone different. And, like, you think about this year,

even though Jokic is having the best freaking career, best year of his career, he ain't going to win. They're going to probably give it to Shaq. You know, and it's just how they do it. And I don't know why, but I think Kobe should have probably won at least three.

Shaq should have won at least, I should have Shaq should have won at least two. You know, I think it's, I think the year he won, he should have won it, and then the following year, he should have won it. Other than that, I think, you know, because you think about his third championship,

he wasn't as dominant as he was. He was still effective. He just didn't bring that. You think about it, he wasn't the Shaq before that, and that's what they based it off. They always say, okay, we're going to take your last year. What did you do better than that year? And I think it was just consistent.

He never went up a little bit to another level. Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan had one of the great games. He had a damn near quadruple double. He was two blocks away from a quadruple double in an NBA Finals game when he played the Nets.

That year, I think he had 21 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 8 blocks. Yeah. That was the Nets, man. The Nets. That was the Nets. We had just swept the Nets the year before that,

or whatever it was. And Ness was like, you know, poor Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, that crew. You know, you were the beast in the East, but when it came to playing teams in the West, you were just like, you're like the Leggings and the Clippers. You're just a little brother. So they made it a good challenge.

But you go back and look at the East back then, East was terrible, man. They were god awful. And so, but Tim Duncan, though, that goes to show you when he wants to take over, he can take over, man. And one thing I like about Tim, when it comes to blocking shots,

he didn't care if you dunked on him. He's like, shit, I don't care. I don't have social media. I don't care what you say. You know, people in San Antonio are going to steal your bow down to me. And, you know, most guys will shy away from trying to, you know, go up against a Venice car thinking you might get dunked on.

They're like, nah, I ain't challenging that. Tim didn't give a shit. He would try to challenge you any way to block it because he knew nine times out of ten he was going to block it and it was going to start a fast break. All right. Your Mount Rushmore teammates. You get four teammates on Mount Rushmore. Who you going with?

Dream, Shaq, Kobe, Clyde. Damn, you ain't doing Clyde over Timmy? You know what? This is one of the things, you know, I love Timmy, but I'm going with Clyde. Clyde's my boy, man. You know, sometimes personal feelings get in the way sometimes. Hey, I'm doing the Steve Kerr right now. Hey, but, you know, I think people forget how good Clyde was, man.

I mean, he took kind of a backseat role when he got to Houston, but Portland Clyde? Portland Clyde? I remember, hell, I remember when he was dunking on but Portland Clyde, Portland Clyde. I remember, hell, I remember when he was dunking on everybody at Five Slamma Jamma at the University of Houston. Yeah. But he used to, Clyde used to elevate. Yeah.

You know, and the other reason I put Tim in there is because I remember, you know, I'm watching the Hall of Fame ceremony, and I watched Rudy T get inducted, and then when Rudy T gave me a shout-out for the Hall of Fame ceremony and I watched Rudy T get inducted and then when Rudy T gave me a shout-out for the Hall of Fame and they panned through the crowd and Tim didn't clap, so that's why he ain't on my rush board.

Hey, I thought it comes to motherfucker, I saved your ass in 2005 excuse my life. You better get your ass up and clap. Listen to that damn layup I'm not going to take over. Spurs got some cap space.

They got a night. They got Stephon Castle, who's rookie of the year. Wimby, who's a previous rookie of the year. They got... Would you make the move for Giannis? Would you try to package some pieces for Giannis? That's the thing.

Don't you forget about Dan Fox. I think that's hard to say. I would because you can't pass him. I think that's going to be the hottest commodity this summer. Everybody's going to want the Greek freak because he's that type of player. I mentioned earlier how hard he played. So this is going to be really interesting to see where he goes

if Milwaukee want to give him up. But if I'm the Spurs, we got the cap space. Why not? Go at them because he'll love it there. One thing about the Spurs franchise is it's a good franchise. They're a very humble franchise. And you don't have to worry about a lot of the outside noise. You think about LA

and Chicago, New York. There's a lot of outside noise. You being in Milwaukee are used to the outside noise being at a minimum. If you go to the Spurs, you're in the same thing. I don't know if he wants that. I don't know if he wants to be more... I can't get no more notable

than he already is. Does he want a bigger market? That's where it boils down. He wants that market. I don't know if he wants to be more, you know, I can't get no more notable than he already is, Greek Freak, but does he want a bigger market? That's where it boils down. He wants that market. It boils down to a bigger market. I haven't talked to Greek Freak, but I talked to the powers that be. We're going to do everything we can to get him down here in Miami.

I've told Unk that already. I'm not sure why he continues to ask that question. Hey, Rob, I've sat down with Mickey Harrison. I sat down with Pat Riley. Pat is willing to change some of his ways and let the reins go a little bit on the way he conducts himself to come to the entity that is known as the Miami Heat.

And we also want to get Ja Morant, too. You don't want that, though. I'm just telling you every I'm telling you every time. He was feeling great in Miami, but you're going to have to give up, you know, a lot to get him to Miami. That's fine.

That's fine. But if you give up stuff, you're going to be right where the Phoenix Suns are. You give up all that, you got three guys making $150 million, but your bench sucks. Yeah. Same thing happened when Carmelo left the Nuggets.

He went to the Knicks, but what he wanted to play with, they ended up going to Denver. And then you had to trade those draft picks, so now you're there, you're basically by yourself like when you were in Denver. Yeah. We're going to make it work. The volume. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them.

So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

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