Nightcap - Nightcap - Hour 1: The Nuggets beat the Thunder to force a game 7, KD has an interesting take on X!

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Shannon Sharpe, Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson & former champion Shawn “Matrix” Marion react to Nikola Jokic and the Denver Nuggets beat Shai Gilgeous Alexander and the Oklahoma City Thunder to force a game 7, Kevin Durant and Emanuel Acho go at it on X, and much more!01:47 - Introduction05:30 - Nuggets v OKC21:41 - NBA execs skeptical of Flagg developing into a star49:00 - KD’s response to Emanuel Acho on twitter(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or thank you for joining us

as the Denver Nuggets force a game seven with a 119-107 victory over AOKC. They got production from where they needed it. Nikola Jokic was sensational tonight. 29 points, 14 rebounds, 8 assists. He got 25 points from Jamal Murray. 23 points from Christian Braun. But it was Strother off the bench that was 4-4 from the free throw line

and 3-4 from the three-point line. 4-8 from the field. They gave him 15 big points off the bench. And that was the difference as they went by 12, 119 to 107. Ocho, we've got a game seven, game seven.

I guess if you play a series sports, no, no phrase is more important than game seven. Thank you for joining us for another episode of nightcap. Y'all know me. I am your favorite on Shannon sharp, my partner and co-host, Liberty City legend, the bingo ring of fame honoree, the pro bowler, the all pro, that's Chad Ochocinco Johnson. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button. Please make sure you hit the like button and go subscribe to the Nightcap

podcast feed, wherever you get your podcast from. Every subscriber counts. We thank you for counting. We thank you for mattering. We also thank you for helping us matter. I don't know if you saw this today, Ocho, but YouTube came out with their Top 100 podcast. Huh? You saw it? No, I didn't see it.

You know, I've been with all the rookies today. Talk to me now. We, Shaysha Media, have two shows in the top 100 club she shared number seven number 28 is nightcap now there are some bad you know the thing is on show that's not really what we we getting better at it and we're gonna get even better but once we get back in our element which is the nfl season yes sir we're gonna climb back up in that top 10 like where we're supposed to be. But look, you got to understand how good it is for that not to be our element, obviously, and us doing what we're doing right now and still be at 28.

28 out of 100. And we're in front of some pods, Ocho, that basketball is their specialty. So it just goes to show you that our fans, that they respect what we do, they support what we do, and they're going to tune in to what we do. So we just goes to show you that our fans, that they respect what we do, they support what we do, and they're going to tune in to what we do. So we can't thank you guys enough.

Also joining us, we have a very special guest to talk this game tonight. His nickname was The Matrix. He's a four-time All-Star, two-time All-NBA, an NBA champion with the Mavs. His number 31 jersey is retired with the Phoenix Suns. Ladies and gentlemen, here he is. Sean, the Matrix Marion.

Matrix, what's going on, bro? You good? What's up? What's up, Anken, Chad? What's good, man? We good, bro. Thanks for joining us. We'll get right to you in just a second.

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as we come to a city near you. Ah, Matrix, we got a game seven. The Denver Nuggets do what I thought they would do, going home, they hold serve, and they force a game seven. 119 to 107, you got great contributions, you got five guys in double figures, led by Nikola Jokic, 29-14-8, Jamar Murray had 25-8 assists, Kristen Brown had 23 points, 11 big rebounds, he had five assists, Michael Porter Jr., he came to the party tonight. He didn't take many shots, but he made the shots that he took. He made those counts.

He had 10 points, but it was Strother off the bench. They gave him 15 big points. He was three of four from the three-point line and four of eight from the free throw line, excuse me, from the field. Watching this game, Matrix, what did you like about what you saw from the Nuggets? Because I thought they took control early in the first quarter

and then they kind of let it slip away in the second quarter. They regained it in the third quarter and then cruised home in the fourth quarter. It was tough nip and tuck, but they broke the game open. What did you like about what you saw from the Nuggets tonight? Championship pedigree. You got two of the best closers in the game right now with Joker and Murray, man.

Murray stepped up big. You know, he came up. They say he was sick before the game, but, man, you know, I think he's special, man. I think he don't get enough credit as he deserves, man. I think he—you can last two minutes to the game. That's a tough team to beat, man. You know what I like? I like the fact that they're really aggressive they shot 32 free

throws tonight so that tells me they're not they weren't settling they were trying to put pressure on the uh uh the okc defense no this is a very good defensive team they got guys getting can offend they switch everything they got two bigs that can protect the paint uh uh you got jalen williams who's a great defender ludor you have uh have Caruso, Isaiah Joe, Wiggins, Wallace. You got guys. They got about six or seven guys that can defend the wing, and they switch everything because they don't want to help and leave guys wide open.

And I thought the Nuggets did a great job tonight, Matrix, of putting the ball on the floor, trying to get the ball to the rim, and they drew a lot of fouls. They shot 32 free-throw attempts. It was 27 of 32, and the Thunder was only 10 of 16, and Shea Gill just shot 11 of the 16 free-throws. I thought Jalen Williams, he was off tonight. He was 3 of 16 from the floor, 0 of 4 from 3,

and he didn't get to the free-throw line at all. Hartenstein, he doesn't really normally get to the free-throw line. Lou Dort didn't get to the free-throw line. But when you only got three guys, and they take all your free, all 16, that tells me you're not nearly aggressive enough and maybe you settle a little bit more for threes than you should have. Yeah, they need somebody else to step up tonight. You know, I think when you look at this game, you know, they are a young team. You know, I think they're growing.

They're getting better as they keep playing. But, man, you know, I think the execution of Denver just prevailed. And they just, man, they played smart. They took care of the ball when they needed to. They had too many mistakes out there, young mistakes. You know, it's a mentality of these young teams that I love. Okay, see, they play hard. You know, they play great with their hands.

But I think sometimes they just seem like they're going, they're not largely going through the motions at times. And they just, they get off the, they pump the brakes a little bit when they need to be putting their foot on the pedal and taking it to another level. They show them signs they can do it. They're a resilient team. But the mistakes catching up with them,

they turn the ball a little too much. Yeah, and they're not a three-point shooting team, Ocho. They were 11 of 40 tonight. They were 27.5%. Julian Strother, he hit more threes than any player on OKC. And so we knew that, look, the big guns, they got a fire tonight. Joker and Murray, they did that. Now, where else can we get some production?

Because they needed those points. Because in the fourth quarter, he had some big threes. He got a couple of rebounds and put some putbacks. Because you look at it, OKC's bench is better, weighs better than the Nuggets bench. And so they needed some production off that bench. And Julius Strother gave that to them. 15 points, a career playoff high.

3-4 from the three-point line. I thought Christian Brown was fabulous tonight. 23 points, Ocho, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals. He was 3-6 from the three-point line. He had more points than J-Dub. He had more rebounds than Hartenstein, more steals than Caruso, and

more made threes than Shaq. He's the youngest player in franchise history with a 20-10, 5, and 3 game in a playoff game. Jamar Murray has 25 points in playoff games. I mean, think about it. Jamar Murray has more 25-point playoff games than Devin Booker, Jalen Brunson, Joel Embiid, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Bill Russell,

Derrick Rose, Penny Hardaway, Johnson Billups, and Vince Carter. We don't look at Jamal like that because he's never been on an all-NBA team. He's never been an all-star. But as metrics, as you said, he can ball and the moment, he's a big, he's like James Worthy. He's a

big game player. The bigger the game, the better he plays. He knew his back was against the wall. If I don't play well, the series is over in six games. Let's get it back to OKC, and let's see who can handle the pressure more, better, we or them. I love the way they played tonight. I love the championship medal, as Matrix mentioned, the Nugget Show.

What did you like about what you saw from the Nugget Show, Joe? I mean, obviously, they played well. They suffocated. I'm just going to say it. I feel they suffocated the goddamn Thunder. It was one on four. I'm going to call it like that. It was one on five, actually, because Shea was the only one that showed up tonight, even

though he had 28 points, but he only had two assists, and he had four turnovers. But Joker doing what he does and goddamn Jamal Murray with 25 tonight. Listen, they set the tone. You expect a game like this? You want to be able to, a young team like that that's up and down the floor, that play good defense, you want to be able to close out a game like this, huh? You want to be able to, but obviously the Nuggets having that championship pedigree and being that they've been in this position before they were able to pull this game off the fact that she the fact that it was the game of this and this much importance and she was the

only one to show up tonight and nobody else did lou dort hartenstein jaylen williams they played they played bad they played bad and i don't't know if maybe they might have been tired. They may want to get the game seven and then just pull a rabbit out the head or something. No, you can't chance that, Ocho, because you're a rolled ankle. You're an elbow. You're a bad play.

You're a push. You lose your composure. You're one play away from being out of this thing. And so you never put off tomorrow what you can get done today. Now I get that, you know, in front of our home crowd, but your home crowd doesn't guarantee you a win.

And so that's why I would be, look, and plus the Nuggets have been in game seven. They've been here. They've done that. They're battle tested. They got a three-time league MVP and they got one of the best big game finishers and Jamal Murray in the NBA.

So I wouldn't want to test that. I thought Chet played really good today. He did. He was 8 of 14. He had 11 rebounds. But Jalen Williams, who's their second best player, did not have his best game. He had six points with 16 shots, Ocho. He was all four from the three, and he didn't get to the free throw line.

So that tells me he was settling. He wasn't nearly aggressive as he needed to be because he can put the ball on the floor. And he settled for those three-point shots, which the Nuggets will gladly accept. 16 free-throws, 43

attempts, that's not fun to basketball. They need to be somewhere between 25 and 30 free throw attempts and keep back the three-point attempts somewhere. Like, if you get to 30, you can live with that. You can live with that. But they got to 40 and they only made 11. They weren't nearly aggressive enough.

I think that was a problem for them tonight. But the Nuggets was plenty, plenty aggressive with 32 free-throw attempts. Looking at this game, so projecting Matrix going to a Game 7, what do you think OKC need to do to keep the Nuggets from coming into their building in a Game 7 and walking out there going to the Western Conference Finals?

Who would that say? Show up. I mean, I think it's going to be simple to them. And it's not going to be simple, but you need your role players to play better at home. So that's going to be that. That's what home court advantage is right now in this postseason. So it's been paying off, but both teams have won on both their home courts.

Correct. Listen, that seven game, man, you just don't know, man. You're throwing it up in the air. Listen, let's go to war. You got to come to fight. You just don't know because LeBron's been struggling the last three games. You know what I'm saying? Two or three games.

Yeah. He found his shot tonight. So, look, Gordon's been struggling the last three games. You know what I'm saying? Two or three games. Yeah. And he ain't been shooting the ball. He found his shot tonight. Shot tonight. So, look, Gordon's been playing great. He didn't have a great game tonight. He scored five points, I think.

What did he score? I mean, how many points did Gordon score tonight? He had five. He had five points on two or seven. But did I see him grab? Did you think,

it looked like he grabbed his hamstring. It looked like that left hammy started bothering him because he was doing, you know, he was grabbing a little bit now. Yeah, left one.

The left side. I'm facing him to play with. If he hurt now, that's, I don't want that. I don't want to see no injuries in the postseason, but, man,

that can change the dynamic of everything, you know what I'm saying, on certain teams. You know, he's a big part to their team and what he's done

for the postseason and helped them win the championship two years ago. It's going to be interesting to see who shows up. Ain't no more schemes. Ain't no more drawing up this and that.

They know what it does. They know when to fight going to the back. They know what it's like. Let's go to war baby yeah i thought the nuggets i thought the nuggets i thought the nuggets bench they got 27 points from their bench to offset the 30 points because normally the thunder bench blows the nuggets bench away yeah tonight it was only a plus three

well you could live with that because the nuggets are only going to play like three guys off the the Nuggets bench away. Yeah. Tonight, it was only a plus three. You could live with that because the Nuggets are only going to play like three guys off the bench. Russ, Watson, and Strother. Those are the only two, those are the only three guys that's going to get off the bench. Now, we know OKC,

they're going to play five guys coming off the bench. That's what they do. That's what they normally do. Tonight, they played a few more, but it was in mop-up duty, so I don't really count those. But you look at guys that Wallace played 27 minutes, Wiggins played 12 minutes,

Caruso played 27 minutes, and Jay Williams played 14 minutes. So that's one, two, three, four. So they played nine guys. Sometimes, occasionally, they'll play 10. Actually, they played, well, you can look at it, they played 10 because Isaiah Joe played eight minutes. All the other guys played one minute.

That was mop-up duty. So, you know, they're normally going to run nine, ten guys at you, Ocho. And that's where they kind of do a lot of their damage because they got guys that can go get buckets against your second unit. You look at Caruso, you look at Carson Wallace, you look at Wiggins and Isaiah Joe, those guys can score. And so that's normally the deciding factor is that when they take their starters out, OKC take their starters out, their second unit can get some distance.

Yeah. Or they can claw back. If they're behind, they can claw back some of the digging to the lead that you have. But I thought the Nuggets bench played extremely well tonight. I think Coach Adelman is going to be very pleased with the performance that he got. You know, Jamal Murray got a little careless with the basketball late in the ballgame. I think he had like two or three consecutive turnovers and got in the game a little bit more interesting than probably what it should have been late.

But I love the way they regathered themselves and was able to close this game out by 12. So we have a Game 7 in the Western Conference Semifinals. The Denver Nuggets by the score of 11 have a game seven in the Western Conference semifinals. The Denver Nuggets, by the score of 119-107, over the OKC Thunder, fourth of game seven, and that game will be on Sunday. And we'll be right here to you.

The Nuggets will play in game seven for the seventh time in the Jokic era. Sunday will be their first game seven on the road. They had a road game during the bubble, but that doesn't count because everybody was on the road. Ocho, who you like in this game seven? You taking the Thunder or you taking the Nuggets? Listen, the Nuggets have already been there before. I want to see Shea win it.

I want to see the MVP get into it. I think the difference in this game is going to have to be the bench. It got to be the bench. The goddamn bench got to show up. Shea's going to do what he does. Jalen Williams, shit, they're going to have to be the bench. It got to be the bench. The goddamn bench got to show up. Shea's going to do what he does. Jalen Williams, shit, they're going to do what they do. I think the bench is going to be the difference. They have no choice.

I mean, game seven, for one, and I'm giving the edge to the Thunder because they're going to be at home. They're going to be at home, so I got them. And if you want to put a little money on it, let me know. Man, I told you it was concerning to me because i saw aaron gordon grabbing that hamstring yeah that's not a good sign and i understand they got they don't play again ocho until sunday if that hamstring hopefully it would like a little dehydration and it's just grabbing on me just spasming it up it is not a strain of anything so let's let's just hope hope for that

let's you know pray for the best yeah that's all That's all we can do at this point in time now. But they got their work cut out for them. If Gordon was 100% healthy and I didn't see him grab that hamstring, I probably would have went with the Nuggets. Wait. Playing the end? It doesn't matter. Okay, see?

I like Jokic and Murray to pull this thing out. But all I want to do is get the lead. See, I want to keep your crowd out of the game. And Matrix, you know this. The longer I can keep your crowd out of the game, the better my chances are. Because the home team is going to feed off that energy. But I ain't going to give you nothing to cheer about. I'm going to come out,

jump out on you, 10-0, make you call a timeout. You hit a bucket, then we're going to go on another spurt. And so we're going to keep the crowd on their hands. We're going to have the crowd waiting for you to give them something to cheer about. But that moment is never going to come. Go ahead, Matrix. I'll tell you what.

OKC is one of the most loudest arenas I've ever played in. It's going to be rocking in there. So I can't wait. I'm excited for it. You know what I'm saying? I've been in that arena, and it's a hostile environment in there. And I'm telling you, it's going to be off the chain. I think OKC is going to pull it out for some reason, though.

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next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide, and hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal

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captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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There's no debate that this is the greatest global sports figure of our lifetime. Listen to Ali and Me, now on Audible. Matrix, your former team, won the NBA draft, Lardy. Doesn't seem like a tough decision who they'll take. But now some NBA executives are reportedly skeptical that Cooper Flagg will develop, whether or not he will develop into a superstar. According to Howard Beck of The Ringer, one anonymous exec said that while Flagg has a high chance of becoming an all-star, he isn't in the same class as other recent number one overall picks, such as Victor Wiminyama and Zion Williamson,

in terms of being a can't-miss generational prospect. Another executive suggested Flagg may be a very good player, but not a star. While the third said Flagg does have superstar potential, but they aren't sure he'll be a future MVP candidate. I think those are all the guys that want the Mavericks to trade Cooper Flagg to him. Yeah, this is, I mean. Metrics haven't played this game for as long as you have and seeing some of the other great players that played this game,

what do you think the ceiling is for Cooper Flagg? Man, you know what? I don't know what the ceiling is, but I think he's so talented and so skilled right now. The year he had in Duke, I mean, listen, Scott's the limit for the young man. I think as long as he comes in and puts the work in, and we've seen samples of what he can do

when he plays against the USA basketball team last year. The USA, yep. So the work is there. Now, it's going to be a different test now against the USA basketball team last year. The USA, yep. So the work is there. Now, it's going to be a different test now having to go against these players night in and night out. But, I mean, if he comes to the Mavericks, and Mavericks draft him number one, I think he's coming into a great organization

and a great situation. You know what I'm saying? He's not going to be the number one guy. He's not the face. No, no, not the focal point. And he got some great veteran leaders on that team that can help them. And it's going to be an easier transition.

You know, a lot of times people be, a lot of times good teams don't ever get the first pick. You know what I'm saying? Teams, you know, just because you're a lottery team don't mean you're a bad team. You just had a bad season. Correct. You had a bad season and things didn't fall your way.

So a lot of times, a lot of good, some good players come into teams that are bad. You know what I'm saying? You come into a situation where they want you to be the guy immediately.

And sometimes, that don't work out for a lot of guys. You know what I'm saying? It's that much pressure. It's harder. There's too much everything going on.

Too many moving parts. But he got a good chance to go into a good organization, good coach, J. Kid, my guy. You know what i'm saying and uh man playing with uh anthony davis kairi um clay thompson and a young a young group of guys is talented and they hungry so i mean i think uh you know as we sit here and talk about all these

teams and stuff a lot of a lot of teams are either one player or one and a half player away from going to the finals i say this every year, all the time, that the parity is so close right now in the league that all it takes is getting high at the right time. Ocho, what do you think Cooper Flagg's ceiling is? Because a lot of execs

said, yeah, I think he'll be a good player, but not a superstar. I think he'd be good, but he's not Zion. He's not Victor Wimb zion he's not victor wimby yama i don't we don't see him as a as this generational talent like can't miss and another guy's like well i don't see him as an mvp candidate there's been a lot of great players that didn't win the mvp well hell they said the same thing about joker you see where he went right yeah he probably said the same thing about him but obviously you watch kuba flag he's looking

what he's done at Duke, right? And you watch him play against the elite talent at the college level. But then you also watch what he was able to do against the USA basketball team before they prepared for the Olympics. And you understand he has all the tools in the toolbox. He's someone that works hard.

And obviously, him going to Dallas and not having to be the face and just being a part of that team and being able to work on his game and evolve his game to a point to where he actually can become a superstar. I mean, how many times do you have a player that's a generation, a generational talent and comes out and is a Wimbayama or Zion Williams? Those are special talents that come around every so often. Everyone else that becomes elite or MVP caliber, they have to work at it. Right.

You have to give them an opportunity to work on this game because everybody doesn't just come out and already be, all right, the chosen one. It's only so many LeBrons. Yeah, just because I think the thing is, and Major, correct me if I'm wrong. A lot of times in the hotel, we know this. It's like, oh, he's number one. He transcended. He's generational. He's franchise altering.

No, somebody's got to go number one. Yeah. Just because you go number one, that doesn't mean you're going to be Kareem or Magic or LeBron or one of these other historically great players that have been selected number one. And so I think that needs to be the thought process. People think just because you go number one,

oh, he's about to be Peyton Manning. Oh, he's about to be John Elway. No, that's not necessarily true. Somebody has to go number one. And maybe just because he went number one, that doesn't mean he's going to be franchise altering. He could. He could. Because, look,

we can say that there have been plenty of guys that they had the tag can't miss, and they missed. And there have been some guys that are they had late, but the tag can't miss. And they missed. Yeah. And there've been some guys that like, damn, I didn't see that.

Cause if you saw that, like you said, Ocho, if everybody would have thought Yoko was going to be what he turned out, he wouldn't have been in the second round. He'd have been the number one pick of the draft. Exactly. Because he wasn't, that just goes to show you it's,

you never know what a guy has in here. You never know. You can look in here. You never know. You can look at it and say, oh, man, that joker's 6'10". He can jump out the gym. He can shoot the three. He can get to the middie. Whatever the case may be.

But what does he have in here? How much does it mean to him? Because some guys, it means more to others and they're willing to work a little harder in order to achieve it. Some guys that it comes

natural to, Matrix, and they don't work nearly as hard. And you're like, man, I sure wish I had that guy's talent. With his talent and my work ethic, hell, I could have been this. What do you think? What do you think, Matrix? Man, listen, y'all hitting on a lot of points, man. I think one of the biggest things I'm a firm believer in is in order to be

successful, you got to sacrifice. How much do you want to sacrifice to get to that position, to get to that next level? I think he has, like you said, he has all the potential. One of the things you didn't realize, I guess, during the history and everybody's talking about, he's going to be the, when it happens, he will be the first white boy to actually go number one in the draft in a long time.

Think about that. We ain't had most... Most of all the white players in the league now are European or black. And that's not saying... He's the first American

American boy going to be going number one in the draft. That's tough. You know what I'm saying? Gallinari went number one. Did he go number one? Yeah, he did. He rocked the draft. That's tough. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Gallinari. Gallinari went number one. Yeah. Did he go number one? Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did.

He rocked Toronto. Toronto. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but that's a lot, man. I'm saying a lot, but, man, he's tough, man. I wish him the best, man. I think he has a tremendous upside to the young man. Who's he got to win?

It's going to be exciting to watch. Oh, yeah, from Indiana. Who? Yeah, the last American-born white player to go number one overall was Kent Benson. What year was that? I think he's the one that got in a fight with Kareem, and Kareem broke his elbow. Kareem and Kareem turned around and punched him in the face and broke his nose. Yeah, what year was that, though?

45 years ago. Shit. Dang. 1977, yeah. That, what year was that, though? 45 years ago. Shit. Dang. 1977, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Because Walton, what was Walton in? 70, 76? Yeah. 75, 76. Walton must have been 75, 76.

It was 75. I was at that draft. Yeah. You wasn't even born yet, but okay. No, I was born. Yeah. So that's. You wasn't even born yet, but okay. No, I was born. Yeah. So that's special. Walt was 70, was the 74 draft.

Yeah, that's special, man. But, yeah, that's a long, yeah, that's,

I mean, that's a long time. Long time, man. Listen, I think he's special though. I wish him all the luck, man.

I hope, I hope it, I hope he's able to excel and do everything he wants and put it, I heard he got a great work ethic. I hope he's able to excel and do everything he wants. I heard he got a great work ethic. I heard he's a great kid. Bargnani. That's the guy that went number one.

So I heard he's a special kid. I ain't met him yet. I heard great things about him already. And I thought I was going to see him. I went to the combine yesterday. Yeah, that's a twat. I ain't seen him yet. So I was hoping to run into him, but I ain't bumping to him.

So he'll run the corner. You were at the right team. I was hoping to run into him, but I ain't bumping to him. So, yeah. For Toronto, right. You was at the right team. It was Andre Bargnani. Yeah. That was number one overall in 2006 to Toronto. You had the right team. But I knew I was like, no, it was, I got it confused. But it was Bargnani in 2006.

Yeah, I played with Andre. But he was foreign born. When we talk about American born players, hell, there hadn't been a whole lot of them. I mean, you go back to Walton in 74, you got Ken Benson in 76. Yeah. So it's not like it's, you know,

it's not been a whole lot of American born white players that's been selected, number one, overall. But it'd be a huge accomplishment for Cooper Flagg. I'm sure he'd be very excited. His family, his hometown it would be a huge accomplishment for Cooper Flagg. I'm sure he'd be very excited. His family, his hometown state would be very excited to see finally, finally

an American-born white player be selected number one all. It's interesting to see because to see the way he plays, Ocho, because of the size that he has what is 6'8 6'9 yeah he can handle the ball yeah because he let he led Duke and everything scoring rebounds

block shots steals so it shows that he's well-rounded he could do he could do a he could do basically everything yep a little bit of everything and but the difference is he was coming into Duke is one thing coming into the NBA where there are guys just as skilled, just as tall, can jump just as high, can run just as fast, can shoot just as good, can play defense just as good, can do everything you do just as good. That's what that's what you when you start getting the level, you say, OK, you go to JV and then you go to high school and then you go to college or you go to the G league or whatever the case may be. But once you get to the pros, which is NBA, NFL, MLB,

whatever the case, whatever sport that you play. Yeah. You understand like there's levels to this. Yes, it is. Yeah. And people feed.

This is what I tell them. That's it. These are grown men. This is how they feed their family. This is how kids go to private school. This is how college tuition get paid. This is how to go to private school. This is how college tuition get paid. This is how to make sure the wife didn't go. So this kid doesn't have to work.

This is how mom or grandma get the house. Bro, guys are not going to allow you to take food off their table. No. Hey, they bringing it. Because that's how I look. I don't know how you guys posted on show, but I looked at, oh, you try to take my kids out of school. You try to get my grandmother

to have to go back to do a little R's and N's jobs. Oh, no, bro. That ain't finna happen. You know, that's our old school mentality, though. That's our generation. That ain't the new generation mentality.

Really? They don't think like that. No. No. No. But that's our train of thought because, you know, we were survivors back then.

These now, it's a big entitlement now these days. But some of these kids, they're so special ones that truly believe in putting the work in. And I think he's one of those guys.

I think, listen, a lot of us now, we know what the game gave us and the opportunity it gave for us, ourselves, our families,

and our friends and everybody we've been able to truly bless. But, uh, sometimes a lot of people take these things for granted and it can be over just as fast as it came. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Let me ask you this because we've been hearing a lot of,

a lot about this. Uh, uh, Nico Harrison trades, Luca Donchage. Now the rating goes, Hey, why he's in LA.

And now he trades Luka, and all of a sudden, the number two pick goes to Utah, which means the number one pick goes to the Dallas Mavericks. Do you believe the draft is rigged? The draft lottery is rigged? No, I don't. I don't. It's just sometimes

things work out in their favor, man. I think if you look at it, if it was rigged, then why are teams tanking purposely to try to get the number one pick? Most of the teams that tank, what team has ever tanked, purposely tanked, and got the number one pick?

Can you do the history on that? True. Yeah. What team is actually tanking? It'd be very interesting because the team that started tanking, they pick it way down. They're going to need to tank again.

You know what I'm saying? So when you start thinking about all that stuff, man, listen, everybody's going to always have a speculation. Somebody's going to always have something to say, whether it's right or wrong. Yeah. Yeah, you know what space we in. Hell.

The conspiracy theories are going to always exist. Come on. It started the first year. It actually started, guys, the first year they had the lottery at 85. And the Knicks ended up getting Patrick Ewing. So that started it. They said it was real. They're like, hold on. It's real. Out of New York, the first year they got the lottery in 85 and the Knicks ended up getting Patrick Ewing. So that started it. They're like, hold on. Out of New York, the first year they got the lottery,

he got Patrick Ewing. Yeah. So that started. So ever since then, they're like, hold on. You mean to tell me a guy that grew up one hour away from Cleveland and he's coming out and he ended up to the Cavs. LeBron. I don't know.

Listen, it was such a convenience. It's such an odd convenience to, you know, Sean, to where it almost seems like, even though if you're conspiracy theorist and all, it just seems like it was rigged or done on purpose to satisfy not just the Mavs organization, but the fans as well, and to get Nico Harrison off the goddamn hook. That's just what it feels like.

What are the odds? Think about it, though. What are the odds? 1.8. They had the fourth longest odds to get the number one overall pick. I think Derrick Rose was like one for Chicago. Another one. Chicago got Derrick Rose.

We didn't want to talk about that, but go ahead. Finish your point. I was just saying, just the fact that it all happened that way, and it was perfect. It seemed perfectly orchestrated. You let Luka go, and you have nothing. Everybody's upset. Nico Harrison keeps on talking about it, making everybody even more upset.

And now, to ease everybody's mind and ease the tension, damn, now you got the number one pick too? I don't know. It just seems the odds. If the odds are that good, we need to go play the goddamn lotto. Yeah. Yeah. But let me ask you this, Matrix.

What was your reaction when you found that your team had traded Luka to the Lakers? Listen, I ain't going to lie to you. When we saw it, we thought it was a hoax. Everybody did. We thought it was some bullshit, to be honest with you. I was like, no, there ain't no way that happened. That don't even sound real.

Man, I was getting text messages. It started hitting the sports center, and it was like everything. I was like, oh, this is for everything. I was like, oh, this is for real. I was like, yo, what happened? But man, listen, it's the business, man. You know, when you ever sit on the other side of the business side, not the

sporting side, just on the manager side. I'm an owner. I've been an owner for sports now for seven years now. You know what I'm saying? I've been in that space. It's a different mindset. It's a business. At the end of the day, people don't really truly

understand the dynamics of what owners do and don't do. All they see is what the fans do. I mean, what the sport is on the floor. I mean, what things go on the floor and what people get paid. There's a lot of moving parts behind the scenes

that go on to run these teams and organizations and stuff. So when there's so many moving parts going on, I just say, look, man, it's a business man it things happen you know i'm saying that that's what it is at the end of the day we find contracts we was all athletes at one point but we have no controller or some of us have a little bit more control to say so at times predicated on the situations and who you are and what you do on the court but at the end of the day if somebody wants to trade you they got the right to trade you are and what you do on the court. But at the end of the day, if somebody wants to trade you,

they got the right to trade you. You know that? Yeah. Right. Like, come on now. Like, I'm not saying all this, but they do have an owner. You sign a contract, that owner controls your rights and everything you do. He pay your salary, too.

So he writes in checks for you so you can go cash and live the lifestyle that we do. Understand that. It's a business. And a lot of things don't go cash in the lifestyle that we do. Understand that. It's a business. And a lot of things don't go to plan as plan as you want sometimes. I was traded twice. Twice. But I knew where I was going. I had control over where I was going and dictated all that stuff.

I knew exactly what was happening and how it happened. But at the same time, I had some leeway. So at least if you are going to get a certain caliber player, you do have some say-so and know what's going on. And, you know, it is what it is. It's part of it.

Yeah, but see, you had some knowledge. Luka had no knowledge of it. Yeah, that's true. This thing, it had to be hush-hush because we didn't hear anything about it. I mean, look at this. Yeah, I mean, listen. And I think that's why it hurt him so much because I think he had all intents

and purposes to spend his entire career in Houston. And you think a guy that's been to, excuse me, Dallas. I think when you make five consecutive All-NBA teams, you just took a team to the finals. You're like, you know what? I'm here. I ain't going nowhere. As long as I want to be here.

And plus the fact we had never seen someone his age, this talented, leave without requesting to leave. Kareem left because he wanted to leave. LeBron left because he wanted to leave. Shaq left, but we'd never seen a guy this young, this accomplished, leave and had no idea that it

was going on, that they were going to move him. And I think that's what hurt him the most. And people always have this idea, you know, people love spending other people's money. Man, what's $345 million? It ain't your money. Man, what's $345 million? It ain't your money. It ain't nothing.

But the order looking at it like, hold on, $345 for Luka. I'm going to probably have to break bread with Kyrie. AD going to want some money. And so they're looking at the business aspect of it and like, you know, I know they were talking one time about potentially moving it to Las Vegas. I don't think that's going to happen. I think the NBA want potentially moving it to Las Vegas. I don't think that's going to happen. I think the NBA want their own team in Las Vegas

and possibly another team in Seattle considering how much money is being paid for NBA franchises. But I think, that's what I think. Ocho, let me ask you this.

Do you think the vitriol, the outrage that the fan base in Dallas showed towards Nico and the Dallas organization, you think it was warranted? Absolutely. Absolutely. Based on what Luka's been able to do on the court, what he's done for them, especially the previous year taking them to NBA finals, it's goddamn warranted.

It's absolutely warranted for a generational talent like that. I'm not sure what the issue is. I understand there might have been some things off the court that might have rubbed management long-term and wanted to invest that kind of money in them. But when it comes to what he does

on the court and understanding what he meant to not just the fans of Dallas, but what he meant to that organization, I just don't see myself doing it if I'm in their position. I just don't. Major, you're the general manager.

You know Lucas is in line to get a five-year, $345 million contract. Now, I don't know if you talk to anybody in the building. I don't know how much time... Do you live in Dallas? Where do you live? Phoenix or Dallas? I'm in Dallas and Chicago. I'm in both. Okay. So I don't know how close you are to people in the building. I don't know how much time. Do you live in Dallas? Where do you live? Phoenix or Dallas? I'm in Dallas or Chicago. I'm in both. Okay. So I don't know how close you are to people in the building.

You already? Huh? Huh? You say I'm in both, but that boy got money, boy. So I don't know how close you are to people in the building or what have you heard. You know, there are a lot of things about conditioning and then, you know,

uh, he likes, you know, he likes hookah and whatever the case may be. But at the end of the day, he's still giving you those numbers. So you're the general manager in Dallas and Lucas on your team. How do you handle this situation?

You trade me. You know what? Um, it's not, it's not as easy as you say that you asked me a question. If I'm a GM, it's got so many other you say that you're asking me a question if i'm a gm it's got so many other moving parts that go along with it though right so when you i would so i would i could say this i was i'm you gave me the gm hat but i'm giving you the the franchise

player hat because i'm gonna give you something that comes along with being a franchise player so you gotta so you're the franchise player on the court but you're also the You're the face of everything in the community and all this stuff off the court, if you're doing it the right way, all the steps. So I know what my job and my duty was when I signed that contract. When I said max player, when you sign that contract, there are certain obligations that you have to abide by and do. So I've done that. So I was in that space. Now, do, do, do I feel like that was the same situation here?

I don't know. I don't, I don't, I couldn't tell you. I think Aluka was amazing kid and everything. Me being a GM, I don't, I don't know if that's a GM call though,

honestly. Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, you know, I think that's what I'm saying. Everybody thinks it's always this. I'm,

I'm, and like I said, I've been on the, I'm on the other side now.'ve been the only spot a lot of a lot of decisions and everything you know this is a trickle-down effect you know i'm saying it's like everybody see your whispers and oh this just came from this such and such man listen you're talking about a multi-billion dollar business that wasn't coming from somebody somebody opened their damn mouth somewhere and said something they ain't supposed to say it. Right.

Or they gave him permission to say that. So, at the end of the day, man, Nico's my guy. You know, I've been knowing Nico for 20 years, man. And that's my guy. And at the end of the day, man, whether he did,

I don't know whether he did it. What happened, happened. It is what it is. I don't think nobody was going to give him any love or any followers. I don't care who he got. He could have got Michael Jordan back. I think everybody would have still been mad. You is what it is. I don't think nobody was going to give him any love or any followers. I don't care who he got. He could have got Michael Jordan back. I think everybody would have still been mad.

You know what I'm saying? So, at the end of the day, man, like I said, it's a business, man. It's sad, but I get it, man. I am a darhard Cubby fan, man. So, and players get traded all the time, man. Sometimes some of your favorite players get gone. Guess what? I'm going to be mad.

I'm going to be mad he's gone, but I'm still going to be a fan. I'm going to still be a fan of that player players get gone. Guess what? I'm going to be mad. I'm going to be mad he's gone, but I'm still going to be a fan. I'm still going to be a fan of that player who got traded. You know what I'm saying? And I'm still going to be a fan of the Cubs. So when I think about it from a fan standpoint, yeah, you're going to be in your feelings a little bit.

I talked to some fans, and I heard, I felt they paying. You know, I get it. You know what I'm saying? But it was like, no, I'm still a Dalhart master. And I love to hear that. You know what I'm saying? When you're fans, that's the true nature of true Dalhart fans

when they tell you that they love the team so much. Listen, we don't like it. We don't agree with it. But guess what? We're going to still be here and ride or die with you guys. So hopefully it works out for the best and everybody on both sides, man. And that's what it is, man. You know, it's everything. And that's what it is, man.

Everybody's so sensitive about everything now. It is. It just escalated everything 10 times to what it was. I get it. Luka was special. He was doing something amazing. They went to the finals last year, and then all of a sudden he got traded. He got moved, and nobody knew.

Like you said, nobody could know about it. Because it probably wouldn't have happened if it came out that they was trying to. It would never happen. Yeah. And this is what I know. Ocho, you know this. Yeah.

Matrix, you know this. Ain't no general manager making no call on no $345 million. That's coming from ownership. He might make a call to get a role player or a mid-level exception.

But $345 million? That's from the top. He ain't making that call. That's from the top. He ain't making that. Hey, we need a backup point guard or the mid-level exception or the vet minimum. You know what? Go ahead and handle that, Nico.

$345 million? or the vet minimum. You know what? Do that. Go ahead and do that. Go ahead and have that, Nico. Yeah. $345 million. You about to get somebody $70 million of my dollars? Oh, hell no. Hey, y'all stupid. You stupid hog. Hell to the dog. You said what?

You said, you want me to do what? How much? Oh, wait, hold on. Let me think about it. Look here. If Nico did that on his own, they'd have gotten rid of that trade. What?

But a lot of times, you understand, Matrix, when you're in that position, it's like and I told you we're not talking about this in the football aspect of it Roger Goodell he takes all the blowback for the owners

Roger ain't making no decision that's them 32 owners that pay his salary right you can't get a salary and think you're going to call shots on your own if you receive a salary, and then think you're going to call shots on your own.

If you receive a salary, you got to take that from the bosses. Same thing with Adam Silver. Adam Silver worked for those 30 owners of those NBA teams. The same thing as Rob Manfred. He worked for those owners of those baseball teams.

And so, a lot of the blowback, the, man, that's terrible. Roger Goodell, boo, boo. We just had the draft and they still booing. Yeah. They always booing. I don't think people understand. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.

Roger said, y'all booing. There's 60 million. I got lifetime benefits and I get to fly private. So y'all keep on booing. Yeah. I don't think the people understand that Roger Goodell represents the 32 owners. Absolutely.

All the booze that are implemented and put in place. That's what the owners want. Owners. Roger just got to deal with the brunt of the booze. The blowback. He got to deal with all that. He ain't tripping, though. Hey, no.

He said, we say get on that PJ, right? Yeah. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in

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In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets.

Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second. I'm going to ask a journey check. I'm Leon Nafok, co-creator of Slow Burn.

In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see.

Muhammad Ali was never afraid to express himself loudly and boldly and stays true to form in Ali and Me, an eight-part Audible original. Guided by his own words, this series explores Ali's life and legacy through never-before-heard audio recordings and discussions with those who knew him best. Muhammad had this real sense of his own personal values and principles, things he believed in, his own sense of conviction. Those convictions never wavered.

Hosted by Muhammad's wife, Lani Ali, and his close friend, award-winning broadcaster, John Ramsey, Ali and Me goes beyond the boxing ring to delve deeply into Ali's extraordinary life through conversations with Billy Crystal, Mike Tyson, Rosie Perez, Common, Will Smith, and Bob Costas. It created a North Star for me

of how I want to be in the world, you know. As a child, as a young person, he gave credence to my audacity. There's no debate that this is the greatest global sports figure of our lifetime. Listen to Ali and Me, now on Audible. Emmanuel Archo recently claimed that Celtics match up better against the Knicks without Tatum in the lineup, exclusively because of mindset.

I believe a team is a reflection of its leader. Jason Tatum is the leader of Boston. They are an incredibly talented team, but they're not a tough team. This is what Kevin Durant had to say. He responded on Twitter. Excuse me, on X. Damn. Hot take artists have ruined the sport. Football guys, no disrespect,

but y'all boys need to stay in y'all lane. Y'all don't know what it's like to be between them lines. Give the man a break. He said, between these lines. Man, give it a break. Dudes who quit football early to pursue media talking mental toughness. Cut it out.

Hmm. Cut it out. Mm. Cut it out. KD taking shots. I don't think he really is, but yeah. KD going to respond. I ain't got no problem with it. I ain't got no problem with it. I like it.

I like it. I wish more players would like that. I wish more elite superstar players would like that and voice their opinion. That's why would like that. I wish more elite superstar players would like that and voice their opinion. That's why I like Twitter. I like X because it gives everybody a voice.

Now it cuts the middle man out. Nightcore players being able to have an opportunity. Nothing lost in translation. Okay. I got something for y'all.

Okay. Okay. You talk about a lot of people having voices, but this is my thing though. You a about, I love people having voices, but this is my thing, though. You a champion, right? Yeah. So, your mindset's gonna be

totally different than somebody who wasn't a champion, is it not? Correct. So, that's the one thing. You got people talking about the game and this and that, but how can you, how can somebody really define a game if you never won anything? And tell somebody, you're talking from a losing perspective.

You know, you never won. You was an individual. I mean, I'm not saying you wasn't. It's a lot of guys that was great players. That were great, but didn't win it yet. Never won. You don't talk about, it's all about me, me, me, me. What about, you know what I'm saying?

It's like, okay, you was a great individual, but you wasn't a great team player. You didn't excel your team to be a winner. You didn't win. Your team was losing. So if I'm hearing you correctly, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying, unless you've been a champion, how do you tell me what it takes to become a champion?

Yeah, right. Hmm. How are you going to have a champion monster if you've never been a champion? Well, I have another question. Okay. For people that are in the media space, right? Yes. I'm talking to Sean.

Obviously, with what he just said, how do you feel about people that talk about the game of basketball, the game of football, the game of basketball the game of football the game of hockey and or or puns or analysts on it or or give their opinion or views on it but have never played the game can you take what they could can you take what they say serious if they've never done it so so this is my thing i think uh they they the media is great creating these narratives and hold on they can listen everybody can have their opinion about the game. I'm not, this is open. It's an open platform.

Everybody can discuss it on every level, from TV to social media to whatever you want to do, podcasts, whatever. But my thing is this, though. When you start dissecting and you really want to know the logistics of what it really, truly tastes, go talk to somebody who's done it before. I'm not going to come in your space and try to tell you how you're doing your job and tell you how your job, but I've never done it. I've never been a reporter. I'm not going to sit here and slide and say,

but with that being said, I'm not going to sit here and discredit people either. There are some people that are clearly, but the narratives that the media create, it becomes a part of our thought process. They become ingrained in us. These stories that everybody, this is the one thing I don't think people truly understand.

It's almost like the media said they believe that bullshit. And now it becomes a thought process. Whether you agree with it or don't, it becomes a part of your thought process and that's the first thing that comes to your mind when you say something.

And that's the one thing that pisses me off more than anything. So like, at the same time, I'm okay with people having an opinion, but let, let me give you something else to think about it. Think about from a different perspective, different side of someone who actually did it.

I walked this light. I walked this path. I'm going to show you what, from my experience or what I've been through. And I'm like, I'm a, I'm a pay this, this,

this, this direction for you and this idea deal for you. So when you sit here and you go through all these narratives, man, I just, I just, it just, it just, it hurts me sometimes and pisses me off i just sometimes have to recuse myself from a lot of conversations because it's not it's falling on deaf ears because everybody's fucking uh stuck on stupid at times you know common sense ain't coming anymore you know i'm saying right so you know it's so many levels to this shit you know i'm saying it is i want to well thank i want to hand the baton i want you to hand the baton off to me because i I'm saying, so, you know, it's so many levels to this shit. You know what I'm saying? It is.

I want to, well, thanks. I want to hand the baton. I want you to hand the baton off to me because I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Guys that have covered this game, and I go particular, I say like a Tony Kornheisel or Michael Wilbon, guys that have covered the game, I think they understand the game,

but their intricacies, unless you've been in that huddle, unless you've been in that locker room, in those intense moments, you couldn't possibly know. Now, see, they might go by what somebody told them. I'm going by what I know. See, I was in the huddle on fourth down. I was in

the huddle on third and sixth. I was in the locker room when we had lost five straight against Baltimore. So for you to say, I think this is what, no, I'm not telling you what I think. I'm telling you what I know because I was there. And so while they can write it and they've covered the game and they do a great job, and I'm like you,

I don't discredit anybody that I've never said, well, you didn't play the game. You don't know what you're talking about. I'm saying from a standpoint of being in the locker room, being on the field, being on the court, there are certain things that I can speak to that even in your 30, 40, 50 years of covering a game, can't give the fans what I can't.

Having played the game far less than you've ever covered the game because I've been in the huddle. I've heard that call and I looked in guys' eyes and I know who, you know, guys that put in what they put in and I know guys that bulljab because I'm there. I see them all the time. You get to spend open locker room, what, 30 minutes. Five days a week.

You get to spend 30 minutes on maybe Monday, Wednesday, Thursday. I don't think you get to come. Maybe a little bit on Friday. That's all you get. I get to see that guy from 9 to 5, five days a week, then on the road on Saturday and Sunday in the locker room.

You coming in after the game, so you don't get to talk to him before the game, so you don't know what he's thinking, or you haven't had a conversation with him before. And so that's why I don't discredit guys, because there are some guys that do an excellent job, and they've talked to some of the greats, but you see, they're talking to them. I'm right there with them.

I'm right there in the locker room. I'm sitting right next to them. I'm right there in the huddle. I just think guys that have played the game. Now, everybody that played the game, Matrix, can't get on TV and talk about the game. Oh, no. I agree. And explain it in a way that maybe somebody in the media can talk about it.

Of course. But that doesn't mean just because you can articulate your thoughts more or better that you know the game better or understand the game better. Hopefully that makes sense to the chat. No, it does. It does. Mike, my guy, he's from a career up here. So, like, Mike is great. Mike's been on TV for, what, 25, 30 years?

Mike's been doing it for 50 years. Yeah, Mike has been on there, man. I love Mike, you know. But you said something that's so dawned on me. Like, you were experiencing somebody basically being around somebody 24-7 in the trenches with people. It's totally a different feeling. You know, I used to say this when everybody was like, how's the team feeling? I'm like, man, you have to be in the locker room to see.

I can't express what we're going through right now. I can't even say it in words. You've got to be able to feel it. You've got to see it. You've got to be sitting next to me, and you've got to be feeling that heat coming from my teammate next to me on both sides. And we can just like, we ain't got to say nothing to each other.

I'm looking at my guy. We about to go to war out here. And it's like it's a whole different mindset. You know, and I think there's so many different levels to this. I think there's so many great players that play this game in the NBA. It's a great fraternity I'm in. And I take my hat off to the OGs who paved the way for me. I really do.

All them guys, they don't get enough credit, man. They don't get enough flowers, man. We don take my half to the OGs who paid the weight for me. I really do. All them guys, they don't get enough credit, man. They don't get enough flowers, man. We don't talk about enough. It's just sad because every year I feel like we're losing some icons in this game. And I'm 47 now. I just had a birthday last

week and I'm just sitting here. I just got to take my half to these guys, man. I thank all the OGs that paid away for me, man. I'm truly blessed to be in the position I'm in. I don't take none of this for granted. It's kind of like, you know, me trying to go sit into a newsroom and try to tell them how to create a story or write a narrative.

Bro, yeah, I watched the game, but I can't craft it like you could. And so, like I said, I don't discredit anybody because I don't think I can do. See, Ocho, you know you and I have had this conversation. Yeah. I don't feel that I can do your job better than you.

I just feel I can do my job better than you can do your job. Now, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But that's how I feel. I don't think I can do your job better than you. I just feel I can do my job better than you. I just feel I can do my job better than you can do yours. You deduce from that whatever you want. But I'm not going to discredit you from

your job. Whatever the case may be, a cashier, ain't no way I can be no cashier. I be the gay them people, they give me a dollar, I give them ten back. Hey, I ain't got time for that i get frustrated but i understand that people have a job to do and and i think it's easy to say because they won without jason tatum they're not winning the championship without jason tatum you think

what do you think the odds are ocho they win a championship they're going to win the NBA championship without JT I mean so if that's not the case they're not better without him because the odds are they're a better team they do you think they would have won the championship last year without JT absolutely not absolutely not and in matter of fact since you posed that question too based on you know O Acho and Kevin Durant going back and forth, this one's just one game. What happens if they come back in this series and they get it done without Jason Tatum? Mm-hmm. What happens if they get to the Eastern Conference, obviously get to the Eastern Conference Finals without Jason Tatum?

What happens if they do get a chip without Jason Tatum? They not. What does that say? Oh, you still not possible? No. Even with the way Jalen Brown played?

No. In different fights? No. In preaching? Okay, okay. Listen, I said that same thing Ochoa.

I was talking to my guys last night about that. I was like, I just said, what a hypothetical. You know, ain't many teams in the NBA history

ever came down, came back from a 3-1 deficit but it's hypotheticals it's hypotheticals yeah so that's a hypothetical he's going with a hypothetical

say for instance they they win tomorrow Boston wins tomorrow they're able to get they're able to get it back home because at the end of the day

you know the road the uh you know um I mean I like Knicks I do Jalen Brunson is a savage out there. He's killing that closer.

But with that being said, though, the supporting cast only had one game in the series so far that they all of them scored over 20 points. One game. So, like, you know, you don't know what the supporting cast is going to do. You know, Jalen Brunson is the head of the snake over there. And, you know, a lot of these teams are one injury away from not doing anything. Am I right? You're true.

Okay, so Boston is one team that has, listen, they have enough to still do it. And I'm saying, let me ask you a question. Does everybody show up, though? Does KP show up? In other words, if I take Acho. If I take Ocho's, if I take Ocho's reasoning and I listen to you with if, so,

if the Golden State Warriors had won that series, that means they're better without Steph Curry. No. Shit. That's different. That's a different line.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. All I did is remove the best player off the team. Well, just hold on. Just go line up, though. The supporting cast in Golden State is not even close to what they have in Baltimore. What about Jimmy Butler? Play out Jimmy.

You told me play out Jimmy. He's taking two teams to the NBA Finals. Yes, he has. And he hadn't had. I'm just saying, I'm just throwing it out there. We just haven't held the conversation now since we doing what else.

Yeah, but no, but they're done now. So they're done. But look at the roster, though. So go Boston starting, go roster right now. Top seven players. So five, well, top five now because take them as out now. So their current roster right now. look at their lineup, though.

Tell me what you think about their line compared to everybody else's lineup. If they're doing what they're supposed to do. Without Jason Tatum, their best six players aren't better than the Knicks' best six players. You don't think so? Hell no. With Brunson, Cat, Bridges, Hart. Who's the other guy? OG? I love New York

Knicks. I love those guys. And then you got Mitchell Robinson and McBride. So if I take the Knicks seven best players, minus Tatum, so the Knicks seven best players, and you give me the Celtics seven best players, minus Tatum, I'll take the Knicks.

Okay. We'll see. I mean, KP ain't showed up yet in this playoffs yet. He ain't going to show up, so don't stop looking for him. He's 7-3 and invisible. See, I'm just a firm believer. These guys have all, you got two guys You got two. You got two guys. Well, you got three all-star pedigree guys on Boston Celtics.

They've been either a former all-star or not. You know what I'm saying? The only current all-star on their team is Jalen Brunson right now. But Derek White could have easily been all-star. What about Cat? No. Hold on. Cat was all-star.

But they got two. That's what I'm saying. New York got two. Yeah. Boston, they got two current. But Boston has one current and two former. Drew Holiday. Yes.

And Rozingis. So with that being said, but then Derek White could have easily been one this year. I'm saying. Yeah. Was Al Hofer the all-star too? Did Al Hofer make it one time? He had been an all-star. Yes, he's been an all-star.

He's been an all-star. So all-star, I don't know if they're older, but all-star pedigree does play and have some leverage. And God. Well, hell, Matrix, hell, I was a 12th grader. Long time. What, former? I was a former 12th grader, Ocho.

It ain't over till it's over, Ocho. Yeah, you're right. It ain't over till it's over. Remember, this is all hypothetical, but anything is possible. It ain't over till it's over. We know that. So anything can happen. We do that a lot, though. Ocho's over. Remember, this is all hypothetical, but anything is possible. It ain't Ocho's over. We know that. So anything can happen.

We do that a lot, though. We Ocho, we do that a lot. We see a guy at football go down. Would they have built a team without him? No, they not. No. No, hell, they not. Right.

Somebody might, they won a game one time. Would they have won a game without Chase? Would that mean they have built a team? No. No, no. You talk about, hold on. Jason Tatum is about to make his fourth consecutive all-NBA team. Well-deserved.

You mean to tell me a team is better without a first-team all-NBA selection? You know what makes me question it, though, Sean? You look at the way they play without him in that one game. It raises the question and the possibility of the Maxie being better without him because of the way they played. What happens when

the original teacher we get a substitute where it's not the same. So now you do things differently. I believe the Knicks let their guard down. The Knicks like, well, they ain't got JT. They ain't going to be ready to play. And they underestimated them.

I bet they don't make that same mistake. I bet they don't make that mistake in the MSG. Well, we're going to see. Well, I hope not. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, listen, man. When you are here, man, we can't. One of the things I learned a long time ago,

you know this. The one thing you can control is what? Your effort. You can't control that ball going in the hoop or not. So, you know, listen. You can't control it going in the hoop. So, like, hey, man, listen. Man, people feeling that pressure.

And, listen, I know Garden going to be rocking them all. You know what I'm saying? I kind of wish I was in that. I ain't never been to a playoff game in New York. I would love to be there. But I got... Hold on. Did...

Did... Acho did not see the three games they lost with Jason Tatum? So you're better without him, but you lost three games with him. But they was... I mean, he had 42. They was up 20 points

in every game. Listen. They're not winning. They're not what they are without Jason Tatum. I mean, he had 42. He was up 20 points in every game. Listen, they're not what they are without Jason Taylor. He's one of the best players in the NBA. Oh, by far. Easily. That's not a question. It's hard. Let's just say he's a top-ten player. How's a team better without a top-ten player? Okay.

You can win a game. See, and I think the thing is, sometimes what happens, Matrix and Ocho, is that a team will win a game or two without their best player, and people will start to believe, well, hey, we can get rid of him. We can get something back. No, you can't. Don't do that.

Nah. Nah. No, we – so, okay, now. No, I'm not going to agree with that. I'm going to tell you something now. So, like, put it this way. If Jalen – so, Jalen Brown was out and Jason Tatum was playing right now

and they did the same thing. Would you still be saying the same thing? No. Because I think they need both of them. Because when Kevin Durant became available, they offered Jalen Brown and Derrick White some draft picks for Kevin Durant.

They didn't offer Jason Tatum. Yeah, but, I mean, listen, KD my guy. You know what I'm saying? But, like, I'm just saying because right now, Jalen Brown took over the role that Tatum does. Did he not in his last? Yes. So, he became the main facilitator and did a great job at it.

He never get it. Yes. He was due, though. Okay, hold on. Did you see the way he been playing this? Have you seen the way he been playing this series? So look, Jason Tatum last year was dedicated

to the point guard, per se. That's what they said last year. They let him be the main ball handler. So when you watch them play, they go a lot of times they go tit for tat. They go, Jason Tatum come down and shoot. Then Jason Brown come down and shoot at times. You know what I'm saying? Yes. That's all. But now, you don't have to go tit for tat. Now, you know, Jason Taylor come down and shoot. Then Jason Brown come down and shoot at times. You know what I'm saying? Yes. That's all right.

But now you don't have to go tit for tat. Now you got him designated as that spot right now. Listen, I'm just telling you, it ain't over until it's over with. I'm not saying they can. Listen, I would love to see New York go do all the way. I want to go seven. Yeah. I wanted to go seven.

I actually want to go seven. You know what I mean? Honestly. Hey, it's been some great basketball. You know what I mean? Honestly, hey, it's been some great basketball. You know what I'm saying? But anything is possible. I don't even put nothing. Like I said, it's all hypothetical, though.

Remember, we were just talking about. But it's hard to come back from a 3-1 deficit, though. But those first two games, though, honestly, they could have easily won, though. They fucked them shits off. They did? They fucked them shits off. So did? They fucked them shits off. So we sit here and we keep acting like,

you know what I'm saying, Boston is, one of the things that Boston had and the reason they was able to prevail last year that most people don't, they have seven 3 and D guys. They got one went down

with an injury last game. They still got those six 3 and D guys. A lot of teams don't have three and D guys. They do. Yeah. They got... You know, everybody, they're starting to switch everything now. six, three, and eight guys. A lot of teams don't have three and eight guys. They do. Yeah. You know, everybody is starting to switch everything now.

Yeah, so that's what I'm saying, though. So, like, it's not over until it's over. And you just don't know. Maybe KP is due for a big game tomorrow. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. The Volume. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The Volume. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there. And if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.