Nightcap - Nightcap - Hour 1: Unc, Ocho, Iso Joe & Antoine Walker react to Thunder beating the Pacers to go 2-2!

Episode Date: June 14, 2025

Shannon Sharpe, Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson, Iso Joe Johnson & special guest Antoine Walker react to the Shai Gilgeous Alexander and the Oklahoma City Thunder beat the Indiana Pacers in game 4 to even the series 2-2, Josh Hart tells people to stop talking about Thibbs and much more!01:47 - Introduction03:30 - Pacers v OKC38:35 - Josh Hart issues warning to those talking about Thibbs(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Volume OKC did what they needed to do. They came to Indiana and got a game that going back to OKC tied 2-2 thanks to a 111-104 victory. Thank you guys for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. I am your favorite uncle, Shannon Sharp. My partner and co-host, Liberty City's own bingo ring of fame honoree. He's the pro bowler, all pro. That's Chad Ocho Cinco Johnson and the third member of our squad, Arkansas Little Rock native, University of Arkansas alum, Iso Joe Joe Johnson and joining us to break down the game

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Whew. Two, two, uh, shade was sensational. And the first 44 minutes guys, he had two free throws. Yeah. Last, uh, the last eight minutes last, excuse me, last four minutes, he had two free throws. The last eight minutes, excuse me, last four minutes, he had eight free throws. So he was 10 of 10 for the night. Jalen Williams was 11 of 11.

He had 35 points on 12 of 24 shooting. Jalen Williams was eight of 18, 11 of 11 from the free throw line. Chet, six of six from the free throw line. But I thought the guy that kept him in it, just like Matheran did the other night, it was Alex Caruso. He was sensational tonight.

He didn't let them, he didn't, and don't get me wrong, Obetoppin played well, they got what, 35, 16, 36 points? Yeah, 36 points from their bench. But Caruso was tremendous early. Joe, let me start with you and then Twan, we gonna kick it off to you. Joe, let me ask you a question.

Did the Thunder win this game or did the Pacers lose it? Nah, the Thunder won it, man. It was a great game. It was kind of teeter-totter pretty much throughout the whole game. And the Thunder, I scored them by 14 in that fourth quarter. That was the tale of the game right there. Yeah. Hey, look, I ain't gonna tell y'all no lie.

I was nervous over here. I was watching the game for OKC because I felt, you know, especially toward the end of that third, Twon, you know, Indiana took the momentum. You know what I mean? I felt like, I said, man, they're gonna end up closing these boys out because OKC looked like they had got a little fatigue down the stretch.

Well, it's pretty good. And in the fourth quarter, they just made big play after big play, and the Pacers seemed like they had a hard time scoring, and the Pacers, I mean, OKC ended up pulling it out. Twon, what'd you say? Well, honestly, I'm going to be honest, and we got to be honest, fellas. You know, we're doing this. You saw the MVP, Shea, take his game to the next level, fourth quarter.

That's the reason why he got the award. We look for those type of performances. To go on the road and close the game out, and he did what he had to do. And that's what he did. He did the close a game out, and he did what he had to do. And that's what he did. He needed to even this series up, and he did what he had to do. But also, too, you know, you gotta think about it. When you look at what Indiana, and don't get me wrong, Indiana's been great all year.

I love Indiana. I actually have, I think Indiana can win this series, but when you're doing it by committee, it makes it hard. When you don't really have that guy. I know we talk about Tyler Heron, you know Tyler a lot and think that he can get it done, but they do it by committee. They don't do it, you know, okay, see,

as young as they are and the way they play, Shea has to play great and deliver for them down the stretch for them to win. We all know that. No matter how good, we know how great they've been all season. We know Williams has been great. We got no check and have his moments where he plays great.

But when Shea plays great and delivers, they win. And with Indiana, it's too much by committee. I don't know if you guys felt the way I felt. You just don't know who's gonna make a shot. I look at the offense, it's just too random. It's not like, you know, and Joe, you understand this more. I wanna be able to give it to my guy, we're gonna pick and roll, he's gonna make the best plays,

gonna look to score, or get the best guy a possible shot. Indiana is too random for me. And that's what happens late in games, it gets too random. Well, okay, see, we know Shay's taking that shot. We know Shay's gonna make that shot. He's gonna take that shot. Indiana's just too random, and I don't want to take anything away from where they at right now

and still have a chance to win this title. But when you're doing it by committee, it's tough, man, in these type of games. Ocho, you had the Pacers to win the series. You had them pick to win this game. What didn't you like about what you saw from the Pacers down the stretch? Well, listen, obviously, it wasn't enough plays.

I'm gonna piggyback off what Tuan said. It's too random. It's too random. They can't actually run a set play and have a specific guy that's a go-to guy that can get you a shot when you want to. Like Tuan said, they do everything by committee. And it really ain't, honestly, I think the Pacers lost this game

because of what the goddamn Thunder decided to do. Let's talk about identity. SGA gonna do what SGA do no matter what. He's always gonna close the game on, you know, he ain't worried about efficiency. He gonna take them goddamn shots and get his points. But the Thunder finally remembered who they are. What they've done all postseason, what they didn't do the first two games is they abandoned their bigs. And what they did tonight went right back to their big lineup. They had Shet Nolren and Isaiah Hartnestine starting together

just like they did the whole postseason. And what happened? Chet had a double-double Hartnestine. He'd have a great game, but listen, they wanted to paint, they wanted a glass, and hell, they wanted the goddamn game. Yeah, SGA is the first player since Jerry West to have 35 plus points and zero assist in a finals game. Caruso, the first bench player in NBA finals history with 20 points and five steals in a game. Jordan, pull that back up. And Jaylen Williams had 27 points. He was sensational tonight. You can see why he was an all NBA selection.

Everybody think, Joe, you and I, we questioned them, switching their lineups. Man, you in the finals. You got there, won 68 games, and with the exception of their Nuggets, you won relatively even. You swept Memphis. You lose one game to a Minnesota. You have to go, uh, I mean, you had to go seven with, uh, the Nuggets, but you ended up blowing them out.

And so I didn't understand, but to what I didn't understand, Joe and I, we were talking about it, I didn't understand why they went to that small lineup because maybe they saw the success that Indy had against Cleveland. Two bigs, the success they had against the Knicks, two bigs. And they say, no, we're not gonna give them that advantage, but your advantage is your advantage. Your advantage is playing Art Hartenstein and hungering together, and then going to your bench

because your bench is very good. These probably the two best bench teams in all of basketball, and it's no surprise that they're here. I think it's a blessing and a cursed one, because when you look at the Pacers, because they don't have a guy that you have to key on, you don't know who's going to hurt you on a given night. They're going to have a guy that's somewhere in the 20s, and they're going to have a bunch of teens, about 19 or 18 or 17. Yeah, you would like to have a guy that you could say, give him the ball, like a shape. Or you have a guy like you got with a Brunson, or one of those guys, you know, one of the top players that you can say, give him the ball like a shape. Or you have a guy like you got with a Brunson or one of those guys, you know, one of the top players

that you can give him the ball and go get your bucket. That's not what they have. What they have is a bunch of guys that's not afraid to take shots in big moments. Tonight, that didn't happen. Halliburton air ball two threes, Miles Turner air ball to three. I thought the difference in this ball game tonight,

look at the percentage that Indiana shot, 43%. This is the OKC that we're used to seeing. The getting up into them, getting the ball, forcing the turnovers, one shot, and that's it. They dominated them on the glass, they turned them over, and Halliburton had five turnovers. When he has basically more than three turnovers, it's not going to be good for them because he's a guy that really doesn't turn the ball over. But I think you have to give credit to OKC tonight. Yeah. I thought, you know, they had a 10 point lead late in the third and they end up

going to the fourth with a seven point lead, but OKC erased that within the first four minutes of the fourth quarter. That lead was gone. Yeah. I know. Can I say something though? It's always picking back and off, Shad. It's always tough.

And Joe, you understand this. And Shad, when you have a real go-to guy, and I'm not taking anything away from Tyler Hamburg and obviously Pascal Siakam, two guys. That reads. And obviously Pascal, two guys that have played terrific basketball and have led their team to the finals. So I don't want to take anything away from them.

But that's the reason why certain guys get paid $50, $60 million a year. It's the reason why Shea is about to sign for probably $400 million. You got to have a guy that can go get you one. The plays get thrown out the window when you get to the finals and get to these situations, especially the last six to eight minutes of a game. I want to be able to get it to a guy individually and go get me a bucket, draw a double team, get a guy open shot. And with Indiana, it's too random.

By being so random, you don't know who's going to score. And I think it kind of, it kind of messes them up a little bit because they don't even know. I don't know if Rick Carlisle, and Rick Carlisle is one of the greatest coaches to ever coach this game. It's tough for him. I'm sure he's like, who do I go to?

Who's the guy that's gonna step up? Yeah, who's the guy that's gonna actually step up and get me a bucket or draw a double team and get that? And that's what I think that's what makes it hard for Andy. Well, okay, C's kind of know their role. All the players know their role. They know Shay's going to take the pace, especially with eight, six, four minutes to go in the game.

We're going to play off him. And Indiana, I don't know how you guys feel, but I feel like it's just too random. I don't know who's going to shoot the ball. Yeah, well, that's why you don't see a whole lot of teams like Indiana win championships. You gotta go back, and we talked about it the other night, Ocho and Joe, you gotta go back to Detroit,

where you had a bunch of guys, no superstar players, that you didn't know whether it gonna be Rip Hamilton, whether it gonna be Chauncey. Normally Chauncey took it, that's how you got the name Mr. Big Shot, Rashid Wallace, or Tayshia. So you really didn't know. Normally teams win championships,

they got a guy that we can give him the ball and he can go get us a bucket. You go back and look at the Lakers, whether it was Kareem with the sky hook, Magic, or you look at Bird, or you look at, you know, Moses Malone, you go back and look at history. Isaiah Thomas with the bad boy Pistons, most teams shot a Kobe.

Normally it was Kobe, because they were on foul shot. But you've always had a guy that we can give the ball to and we know he can go get a bucket or he's going to get fouled. We know that that's not what Indiana have. And to their credit, they've made the most of the situation. And we talked about this the other night is that because it's by committee, you really don't know who's going to be the one that's going to stick the knife in you because it's, you know, Pascal can get hot.

And we've seen him get hot. We've seen Halliburton get hot. We saw Matthew the other night. He got hot. But right now they had this game. They're kicking themselves. Yeah, that's seven point lead. And they had them on the ropes because Shay was getting Shay looked like he was tired in the first 10 minutes of the ball game yeah he was he did he did he did and so and so i was like okay man this ain't looking good seven point lead going into the fourth quarter and okay

see like now we can't go down three one and even though we're going back home we need to tie this thing up right listen hey joe joe i'm talking, I know it's by committee, but you got to understand something, right? 20, say it's random, but this is what they've done all season long. This is what they've done all season long. And I think that's what makes the Pacers so goddamn special in this series, because you don't know who the night is going to be. You know, sometimes Hallepp early beat, he's he's up and down, but then, you know, Neimhart come out of nowhere, you know, and I really think they the game and gonna go to seven, right?

You can go to seven and I think the paces the paces gonna pull it off. They think they're gonna pull it off. I Got you listen. I think I Thought it was a hell of a game But I thought it was in favor of okay see because of the scoring like the pace only scored 104 points That's what okay. Yeah, They don't want it in 120, 130. See, that helps the Pacers. For me, I feel like Jalen Williams, he was like, I know Shay had 35,

but I think Jalen was more the MVP because he kind of kept him in, and he was aggressive throughout the whole entire game. Absolutely, I totally agree. He was getting into the TTA defense, putting the pressure on the Pacers to foul. He was scoring. I thought he'd done a great job tonight

in keeping him in the game. And in the fourth quarter, I thought Shay came through and put his stamp on the game, man. It was definitely a tight, close, niche game, but with OKC having their youth on their side, I felt like, and having Shay, the MVP, they was able to pull it out toward the end. I Think the thing is also to on and let me know what you think about this the officiating down the stretch

The left the first 44 minutes she only shot two free throws The last four minutes he shot eight free throws How many free throws did he shoot the last four because I think but they turned the ball over I mean on the drill on a handoff Miles Turner tried to hand the ball off to Halliburton Dort steals it and we saw them turn the ball and they didn't have a whole lot of turnovers is when they had to turn Overs all turnovers aren't created equal like in football Oh Joe, we talked about this all the time if you turn the ball in the over in the fourth quarter a first quarter

It's a lot different than turning over in the fourth quarter, or first quarter, it's a lot different than turning it over in the fourth quarter. Especially if you're up a score or you down a score. Now you give them the possession back and you don't really have a whole lot of time to make that up. And so when you're turning the ball over like Indiana was in the fourth quarter, look at what you did.

Now, a lead, now you don't even get a shot up at your rim. They get down, they get two. Well, let me, you make a great point, Shannon. That's a great point, but this is the difference between two different teams. You got an MVP on one team where everybody knows their role. We're gonna go through shade. Shade's gonna create, whether you take the shot

or give somebody else a shot. When you talk about Indiana, and I say this again, and I don't wanna take anything away from my own people think I'm hating or thinking they're not great. The way they play has been terrific all year. But when you do it by committee, it's always tough because now you're not, you have to, this is the reason why and joking relates to this. It's a reason why guys make 50, 55 million a year, 60 million a year.

It's a reason why you play these certain guys because you don't want to do it by committee late. You want to go to your best player and whether he gets double team, make a pass or he's taking a shot. Where Indiana, it's too random. How many times we've been watching the series, we don't know who's going to score for Indiana. I mean, think about that.

We don't know who's going to score for them lake when it gets to six minutes under six minutes, we don't know the best game I thought they play is when Hallenberg took control. Yeah. When he actually took control and control the pace and when he takes the shot. And I'm not saying, you get to the finals, so it's hard for me to question their style and the way they play. But when you get to this point in this game, you got to have a go-to guy that you give

it to that can create a double team or can create his own shot. And when I look at Indiana, they don't have that. No. And OKC is too good defensively. You're not going to beat them just one on one. Right. You have to make an extra pass. Somebody has to make an extra move.

You got to have some guy with a skill level that's going to score. And to be honest, if I was going to make that decision on Indiana, I'm giving it to Pascal Siakam and moving out the way. I know they living down with Hallenberg making decisions late. I'm gonna give it to him cause he's my best one-on-one player and I'm gonna give it to him. You gotta simplify the game late.

It's not about that. I saw Joe, you've been in situations, you get the ball, you don't need no help. You don't need no help. I played with a great one-on-one player, Paul Pierce. And I thought I could score, but Paul, he don't want me on his side. He don't want me getting out the way. Right.

Where Indiana is too random, and by being so random, that's the reason that they in the position that they in right now, you lose a game four on your own floor. They played good enough to win tonight. They did. You don't want to lose that game. It's gonna be tough for them now. I don't want to count them out. You know things happen is 2-2. Anything can go their way. Andrews playing a part. Gatka have a bad night so I'm not gonna predict the series right now but Indiana got a little soul searching to do. If some other guys got to step up, Well Halliburton is gonna have to live and die with him taking 25-30 shots or being aggressive and saying,

hey, I can go home at night. Hey, I was aggressive, I didn't have it, but you cannot play the random basketball with all these different guys thinking they can have, I think they may have four or five, they may have six guys in double figures. And that's cute some nights in most NBA nights. Five.

Five guys, that's cute. It's cute in most nights. I'm not gonna lie to you, it's good. You get five, six guys, I'm sure coaches love it. But this is the reason why we pay those match contracts right now. Yeah. It's the reason why you give guys 40, 45, 50 million dollars a year to show up right now. I don't know who that guy is from Indiana. They may not have that guy. Hey. But somebody gonna have to do it or Shea gonna pick them apart for these next two games.

Hey Tuan, Ocho, when you look at this game, I thought Indiana outplayed them for three quarters. They did. I thought they outplayed them for three quarters. And in that fourth quarter, I felt, you know, OKC, they knew what they had to do to win. They outscored them by 14. So it lets me know, you've seen air ball, you've seen block shots from OKC, they knew what they had to do to win. They outscored them by 14. So it lets me know you've seen air ball,

you've seen block shots from OKC. Like they really locked down. And then, you know, you got your best player getting to the line, getting free throws. They took the momentum away from Indiana in that fourth quarter, man. It seemed like the edges went out in that building. But I agree with Torn.

I thought Indiana played well enough to win. They just got outplayed in their fourth quarter. It was Tita Totter from the first, second, third, and then the fourth. You get outscored like that? Yeah, okay, you can't beat them like that. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners

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family, overcoming loss, and the moments that shaped their journey. These honest conversations are meant to take the cape off our heroes, with the hope that their humanity inspires you to become a better you and therefore set you free to live the life of your dreams. Here's a sneak peek. I'm trained to go compete. I'm trained to be like harder. But sometimes that mentality stops you from stopping and smelling the flowers in your own garden.

Is it wrong to want more? We migrated. Our family migrated here. I'm like second generation. Listen to You Versus You as part of My Kultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But you remember, guys, if we go back and look at Indiana this entire postseason, in clutch situation, they've been great. Look at them when they played the Cavs, they were great. Look at them when they played the Knicks, they've been great. Look at them when they played the Cavs. They were great. Look at them when they played the Knicks. They've been great. And even the first two games when the games were closed. Yeah. Game one, game three, look at how they prevail. Tonight I thought they, you know, and 14, OKC had 10 assists. Let us think it, what was the last time you ever

played on a team that in an NBA game only had 10 assists in 48 minutes They don't be pete you started didn't even have he didn't have a assist. Yeah, he did You know where it go back to what I said those Shannon This guy is go time. This ain't about the others No, it's about it's about the MVP who we talk about the fourth quarter who took control of the game It's the reason why he got that reward It's a reason why we we named him the MVP of the NBA It's because he has the ability to close the game out when I think about Indiana I don't know and I don't get me wrong. I

Love I love Tyler. I think he's great. He's a great player. He's played great. But you talk about closing out and have that mentality. It's a little different when you're the MVP and he separated himself tonight. Are we okay in an NBA finals game with 71 free throw attempts? That's a great question. Actually, I'm not. This is my personal opinion. I think that you know You know at some point especially at this level and the way these two teams play that both teams get up and down they run They're not necessarily considering playing for the free-dome now. This is not a grind it out series

This is two teams that want to play one fifteen one twenty So this again this actually great for the referees because they don't really have to get involved because both these teams like to get up and down and play at a fast pace. So it is something to think about. I mean, I didn't look at that number. I'm glad you brought that stand up. I didn't think about that, but that's something really to think about because these two teams don't really want to play in the 90s. They want to play 115, 120 if they can. So they're not worried about the foul call. They want to get up and down.

So that's a great point. They got, OKC had 12 offensive rebounds. Chet Hongren had four. Hardenstein had three. So the two bigs had seven of their 12 offensive rebounds. Indiana only had seven offensive rebounds. They beat them by 10. They were plus 10 in the rebounding margin. They did a great job.

They did a better job of taking care of the basketball tonight, OKC. OKC had gotten, you know, they were starting to turn the ball over and they'd really do a great job of turning the ball over. Jaylen Williams had four, but for the most part, you know, Shay only had two, Lou Dort had one, Hongard had one. So they didn't really turn, they did a great job of protecting the ball.

But when you look at them, they shoot, you let OKC shoot 47, 48 in one game, I think they were like 50% from the floor. You're gonna catch hell beating them. Because they put so much pressure on you, the likelihood of you shooting 50%. Now we saw the other night in game three, I think they shot 50%. But OKC do a great job with all those wing defenders.

When you got Jalen Williams, you got Lou Dort, you got Caruso, you got Wiggins, you got Wallace, you got guys that can defend multiple, multiple possessions. So in other words, hey, we can slide. that can defend multiple, multiple possessions. So in other words, hey, we can slide, hey, close out here. He give it up, close out there. So you're gonna have to be on your best behavior. I just thought Indiana panicked a little bit. They started shooting some shots

that they wouldn't normally take guys in the fourth quarter because I think they can feel the momentum start to slip. And everybody wanted to be that guy to hit that big three to quell the momentum, to put us back in the, to put us back in like, hey, everybody's looking to have their moment. Talk about, hey, the Steph Curry. Yeah. We could, hey, don't worry about me. Don't like Stephanie in the Olympics.

Don't worry about me. I'm okay. Right. And it got, it got away from him. Hey, listen, it might've got away from my uncle, but I'm gonna tell you how it's gonna go. I told you how this year was gonna go. I told you how it would be before it even started. I told you at this point that before games,

it would be two-two. Joe, you owe me some money. Nah, I don't owe you that much. We're eating right now. We eating right now. I'm giving you the opportunity. I'm giving you the opportunity, Joe, I'm giving you the opportunity as well

to change your decision on who you have within the finals. Man, you gotta cheer. You gotta cheer, Ojo. You gotta cheer. You gotta cheer. Hey, T'Wan, Ojo, when you look at OKC for me, I love the fact that they didn't settle for the three. They shot 17 threes, they made three of them.

They was getting to the cup. They was putting the onus on the ref. You look at the Pacers, they doubled them in three point attempts. You know what I mean? Like them guys was putting their head down for OKC, getting to the cup, making plays. And for whatever reason,

it just wasn't much resistance there. I thought Nim Hart, I thought he played great, man, for three quarters against Shay. The way he guarded him, yep, I agree. Look, Shay a couple of times, he was like, man, y'all gonna bring that thing up. I'm gonna get that in position. Hey, cause that boy was on his back pockets, man. He wasn't letting them breathe.

I'm talking about busting through picks, just making them work. You want to tire him out. And like I said, I think when he caught his second win, cause he got tired early, you know, he was able to withstand that and, uh, and put his stamp on the game late in that fourth quarter. You know what, Tsujo, I'm gonna add this,

and I think sometimes as coaches, and I'm now these coaches get this thing Like you just talked about them. I'm playing great defense. Sometimes you got to respect who the MVP is Yeah, I'm tired. I'm watching these games now No anything I don't like and we saw this and we've watched basketball our whole life all of us have and we saw this and we've watched basketball our whole life, all of us have. Man, somebody else gotta beat me. I'm tired of, we shouldn't be coming on these shows talking about, Shay beat us.

Right. Now we know, you know, them guys are great, but when you gonna send a double? When we gonna make somebody else beat us? That's the thing I got a problem with. You'll let me play one on one. And listen, all these coaches making four, five, 10, 12, 13 million dollars, we firing teams, we doing all these coaches making phone [phone] million dollar refiring teams

We doing all these things go but sometimes man as a coach respect the player Respect the disguise skillset. He's the MVP for a reason So if I'm a loser as a coach and I'm not the brightest guy I never coach before in my life But I played this game my whole life. I'm gonna make somebody else beat me Right, I'm just gonna just live and die. One thing I know as a Chicago Bulls fan is a couple of great shots that I always remember.

That Steve Kirk making a three-point shot against Utah. Yeah. BJ Armstrong making big shots. You know why? Because Michael Jordan got double-teamed. Yeah. And he made the right play. That's what we used to criticize LeBron James.

And I'll show you, I know you love LeB's what we used to criticize LeBron James, and I'll show you, I know you love LeBron. We used to criticize LeBron James for not taking those shots. He always made the right play. Sometimes force these superstars to make the right play. That's the problem. I can't just keep, I'm not gonna let shade beat me. I'm not gonna go home at night and know that I let Shay beat me in a one-on-one ice so I could double team him or force somebody else to beat me.

This is what we know. We see so many superstars, you guys know this, that we give guys high praise because they made big shots and big moments. And not to go at Robert Horry, but Robert Horry made about seven of them. Because you want a double team shot? You want a double team, Kobe? I'm gonna make this them. Yeah. Because you want a double-team shot? You want a double-team, Kobe? Yeah. I'm going to make this shot.

Right. Or Dream. Or Tim Duncan. You know what I'm saying? When you let a guy, here's the guy, the guy got 20, he got 20, Shea had 24 shot attempts and 10 free throws. So you let, so, and Joe, we talked about this, and Ocho, we were talking about this. Yeah. Bro, get the ball, you see game three, they trapped him.

Yeah. He tried to get in that pick and roll, they trapped him, make him get a ball up. He turned it over, they got jump balls, whatever the case may be. Stop letting him play one on one. The really, every great player in the NBA, if you let them play one on one, they're going to average 30 plus. You must, you must. It's like a great receiver, Ocho. Yeah. You got to double it. That's who. I don't care how great your DB is, they're gonna, hey, he gonna get it now. You keep pulling with fine, oh, man,

we play what we play, that's what we do. Okay, what we do. What we do gonna have your home to my man. We were so close, they, hey, you just come back and get better next year, hell nah. Hey, hey, T'Won and Aunk, I agree with y'all, sending the double. But here's one thing you gotta take a look at.

Where he's isoing from, which is at like the top of the key, kind of like a little bit above the free throw line, that's a hard place to double, man. That's a hard place to double. So when I see them getting him in his spots, that's pretty much where he operated from tonight. You know, you make a double there, you know, you giving up something easy.

So I think OKC understood that, and the fact that Shay didn't have an assist, he had it on his mind. He was gonna play in that isolation and he was gonna get to his spots, Tworn. Look, he taking them bumps in the mid post and he's still on balance making them tough shots. Man, he made a lot of tough baskets tonight. Yeah. So you gotta think about it, Joe. We two-two. Now, they're going through this thing 2-2. So the strategy you just talked about, which is right, and you're right, he's getting it in the sweet spot

where he can still score the basketball. But guess what I'm going to do? Let me see if these other guys can make this shot. Let me just try one game. Let me just try one. I'm 2-2, doing it that way. Let me see if these guys can make it. Let me see if a guy can step up and make it every you thought is Joe

Everybody ain't ready for that that they cool. I may not get no sugar in it right down that time The cool I don't go on that one get that cool. I got some sugar. They be a little bit Take them shots now Right you absolutely right. Oh Joe. Yeah, you look at the man had 24 shot attempts and no free throw and no assist. So you knew early on, which, hey, y'all better get it out the glass. You want a shot, get it out the glass. Because I ain't passing it to you. Listen, hey, Twon, I was going to ask you, right, so think about this, with the paces, right? When it comes to trapping, when it comes to trapping XJ, the amount of energy you have to exert to trap him, whether it be at half court,

whether it be at the top of the key, depending on where he is on the court, does it hurt them, the paces on the offense, and exerting that much energy defensively in just one player as opposed to letting him do what he does? No, no, no. Only reason why not because they score by they random in the way absolutely commit their random thing So they're not necessarily it's not like using a that's this hyper thing to say a Kobe Brown or Michael Jordan I love Brian James and those guys are running around Trapping you're talking about a team. There's that's random anyway offensively right so why not double them? I just said let's try something else I just I can't feel comfortable if I'm an Indiana Pacers coach if I'm not doubling them. I just said, let's try something else. I can't feel comfortable if I'm an Indiana Pacers coach,

if I'm a player, knowing that we let Shea beat us. And I'm not taking anything away from the other guys, but he can't dictate this pace all the way through. We watched Joker do this back to back two years in a row. Try to dictate the pace, dictate everything. I'm not letting one guy dictate the pace on me. I'm going to double, make somebody else beat me. That's what the playoffs, that's what certain guys are made heroes,

guys that we talk about, the six, seven, eight guy on the team. We always talking about them. I've been a Chicago guy, a fan, obviously I want to talk, but I remember Steve Kerr, John Paxson, you know, Horace Grant, Bill Winnington, Luke Lowe. Because those guys had to make big shots and make big plays. I agree. Because Michael Jordan got double-tanked. Michael still got his 30s, 40s, had his moments.

But that's why I remember those guys. They're household names in Chicago, me living here. People loved them to death because they made big shots in these moments. I them to death because they made big shots in these moments. I gotta make, if I'm a loser, feel good, going home in the summer, I gotta be like, hey, that second unit, those other guys beat me.

We did the best job we could do on Shay Giggles Alexander. Indiana just like, they're giving them, they're taking them too. You can't have both. Right. I gotta make you learn. You can't have both. Go ahead, you learn. You can't have both. Go ahead, Joe.

We gotta give Rick Carlisle some credit, though, guys, because he's made adjustments. When we said, hey, look, man, you gotta switch up that pick and roll defense, he did that. Tershey over-head him a little flustered in game three, and you know, they was able to pull the game out. I think come down game five, yes, one, like y'all say, I think he will start sending a double, even if he I say, I think he will start sitting in double.

Even if he isolate the top, they may just send another guy. But I'm sure, you know, Rick Carlisle's been great throughout this postseason. I can see him making that adjustment right there just to where, okay, if he get in this sweet spot, if he about to go, he put it on the floor, we coming. We coming. So I look forward to the Pacers making an adjustment in game five,

and because it's gonna be tough for the OKC, man. They're going to be ready. Yeah, and I think, you know, Indiana had some breakdowns in the fourth quarter. You saw Chet get a putback dunk. They got a couple of putbacks in there because the rotation wasn't what it needed to be, and you have a lapse.

And, you know, you get fatigued, or you see it feel the momentum slipping away. But you got to stay focused. That's the thing about in sports when the rubber needs to meet the road, if it's late in the ball game, say the last five or six minutes in a football game, the last five minutes of the basketball game or whatever the case may be. You've got to maintain a level of focus because a momentary slip could be the difference in winning a loser, the ball game. And I thought Indiana had some lapses in that fourth quarter,

late in the ball game. Chet get a put back dunk. Caruso got a rebound. And, uh, but like I said, I thought Caruso tonight, Caruso had his Matheran moment. Like, Matheran had his 27 in game three, and he ended one with game. I thought Caruso was really the difference,

especially early. He didn't do a whole lot late. But early in the ball game, he was sensational. Hey, look,. He didn't do a whole lot late, but early in the ball game, he was sensational. Hey, look, I ain't think Hardenstein played great, but he played well enough. Like we say, with that big lineup, especially in that four quarter down the stretch, they got some easy extra second chance points.

Yep. And that's what we was talking about. You play that small ball, T'Warr, you don't get them extra them second chance points. I thought Hardenstein had a couple tip-backs, tip-outs to where they tipped it back out to where they got a second opportunity, and they scored on them baskets.

Yeah, and my last thing I'm gonna add to, Joe, into this situation, just so you can hear me out on this, as a guy who played, and we played against a guy, Dirk Nowinski, in the finals of 2006. It kind of reminds me of a, you know, Dirk Nowinski, in the finals of 2006. It kind of reminds me of a, you know, of a Shea and the way their team is kind of constructed as far as ice souls and scorn.

A lot of tools. Yeah, but what we did with them, what we did with Dirk, if he saw Eudonnis Hasem, who was probably the best defender on him, he saw James Posey, Iguardi and myself, Zogarm.

So you can get four or five different defenders on that guy, it's a different look. We didn't stop Dirk. I would never be the first, I'd be the first to admit. His numbers speak for itself in the finals against us in 06. We didn't stop him, but we gave him different looks. So I make that point to say, stop giving Shay the same looks. Double him a little bit.

Get it out of his hands sometime. Now, force him to do something else. Shea's not a great three-point shooter. No. You know what I'm saying? Make him shoot a three. Sag on him a little bit. I just hate when you keep doing the same thing and thinking that now you got to change it up.

Put some thought in his mind. He may have to change his game up a little bit. But he knows right now, he knows every sweet spot he getting into he knows when you're coming you're not giving no doubles Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James the greatest players that ever played this game has got double team Why all of a sudden Shay don't get double team? He didn't even be for a reason. Well you've given up 120 shape. Yeah, if I'm giving up 120, I might as well go Man, they make over three that make over three. I might as well double we plan in the 120s. Anyway, I'm a play I'm trying to play that way. So why not double respect the man for being an MVP?

He didn't win the award overnight. He earned it. He was the best player in the league He could have won it two years in a row. The dude's on the road. You gotta respect what he's doing right now. And that's double him and make somebody else beat me. And until Indiana makes that commitment, they probably not gonna get out the series. Yeah. You're right. All right, we gonna move on.

Josh Hart issued a warning about those talking about Thibodeau. He said, all y'all talking trash about fibs, lame as hell. A different direction was taken, but y'all should be appreciative for what he did for the team and the organization. What I didn't understand, and it's baffling to me, and I said this, how are you gonna fire a man and you don't have somebody already lined up?

You gonna fire a man and then you talk about you wanna go talk to other people. People that already got jobs, they not gonna let you. They not gonna let you talk to their coach. It's like me, I'ma sell my house but I ain't got no place to stay. What the hell, what the hell, Ocho? I need to have, hey, I got a Tim housing.

I got something already lined up. This looks so bad. If the Knicks knew how bad they look currently, because now you're asking for permission. Can we talk to Jason Keehan? Or can we talk to Amey Yudoka? Can we talk to this one? Can we talk to that one?

No, no, no. Now, you've spent your attention, and it seems like Brown, Mike Brown, or Taylor Jenkins, who's at the Grizzlies, they seem to be the number one contenders. This is a bad look. I'm not saying, look, you can say whatever you want to say. Okay, maybe Tim need to go, he's grinding his guys down too much in the regular season. But at least have a plan.

Okay, we're going to get rid of Tim's, this is who we want. But you probably want to have somebody lined up that doesn't have a job because the likelihood of somebody, I mean, Doka was in the playoffs, they had the number two seed. Yeah. So I'm just, and Jason Keefe like, hold on. Yeah, I like the Knicks, but we gonna get Kyrie back.

I got Anthony Davis and we gonna have the number one pick in Cooper Flags. Why I wanna go? No, it don't make any sense. But hey, hey, hey, hey, Torn and, I mean, Torn, Uncle Joe, you gotta think about it, right? This is a player move, though. This is a player move. The players, someone had to say something to the folks upstairs, the upper management,

about Tibbs. Again, you hear all the time about him grinding his players in the regular season and the postseason and playing too many minutes and then tiring themselves out and not really being able to play towards the end of games. Because most of the time in business when it comes to when you're going to fire a coach, you already have somebody you already have a successor in mind and in order before you even fire somebody. Most of the time I know I know I'm not tripping in football is the same way. I'm not tripping it and football is the same way if you're a coach You already know who the next person gonna be now, you know, you don't say anything publicly but behind closed doors You already made the call you already got your eye out and you got the empty's crossed before you fire anybody You're absolutely right this ain't college

To run before you go, you know in college sports they do this all the time guy fire guy Oh, let me go talk to somebody from Texas. Let me talk to somebody from Alabama. Let me talk to somebody from LSU or Notre Dame. And you can offer them 10, 15, but you don't see that in pro sports. You don't see somebody saying, okay, John, I mean, it's happened, hasn't happened.

I mean, football, you remember John Druden, he had a job and he ended up going to Tampa. Right. Coach Belichick had a job with the Jets. He goes to the Patriots. I think Herm Edwards had a job and he ended up going to Tampa. Coach Belichick had a job with the Jets, he goes to the Patriots. I think Herm Edwards had a job and he ended up going elsewhere. But it doesn't happen in pro basketball.

So I agree with you, like you said, if I'm gonna get rid of something, don't I need to have something already lined up? Oh, I'm selling my car. You already got a car? No, I ain't got no car. I'm gonna figure it out once I get rid of it. What? You will figure it out once you get rid of yours.

You figure it out before you get rid of yours. So that way it's a seamless transition. Go ahead, guys. Let me just say this. I think when you look at this, guys, and I know you guys have many comments on this, I've been on, but you're looking at a city that probably thought their team was better than what they were, and you're looking at an organization up top that probably thought their team was better than what they were. And you're looking at an organization up top that probably thought their team was better than what they was. You played against a Boston Cell team that lost Jason Tatum.

Let's not devalue how good Jason Tatum is. So you was able to get by and put yourself in position to possibly get to the finals. That's cool. But the problem is the next roster is not good enough to win an NBA title. Let's be honest. That roster is not good enough to win an NBA title. Let's be honest. That roster is not good enough to win it. It's not Tim's fault.

I think Tim's done an excellent job to be able to get what he got out that group to make them relevant, to make them a really good playoff team. But now you get the buzz. The fans coming to the game. You got the celebrities. You got all the stars coming to the game.

Everybody's starting to think about a championship. You have to build towards that. You gotta have the right personnel. And that's unfortunate that Dolan don't understand that. You put a good product on the floor, you've gave the Knicks fans something to cheer about. Appreciate that part. If you're able to get over the hump, you get over the hump.

But you don't have the right personnel to get over the hump. You still got the Pacers, the team that's played you the last three, four years. The Pacers team has been together four years. They beat you last year. Yeah. Yeah, they've been together four years.

The boss's stuff is that Jason Tatum don't get hurt. We probably talking having a whole different conversation right now. So you got to put that in perspective. That's why I don't like the fact that they fired Tibbs, because it wasn't his fault. He's done a great job with the group that he's had, and that's been him. I saw him here in Chicago.

I saw him first hands. I saw him have a great point guard in Derrick Rose, ride that point guard, and build that team around defense and a great point guard. He did the same thing in New York with Rick Brunson and what they built there. And they're successful. They're a very good playoff team

that's gonna compete night in and night out. Sometimes, and Joe can contest this, and even Ocho, you can contest this too. As athletes, we obviously wanna win a championship. That's the goal. But sometimes you're just not there. You just can't get over them. You need a little luck. You need to stay a little injury-free.

You know what I'm saying? You gotta stay a little injury-free. I'm gonna have a little luck. But. You need to stay a little injury free. You know what I'm saying? You got to stay a little injury free. Have a little luck. But sometimes it just don't happen. The good organizations stick with you and build on that. That's why I like the Pacers because that group has been together now three, four years. Yeah. That's what makes the Indiana Pacers kind of special because that's why I root for them because they're one of the few organizations that's stuck with their core guys

and given them a real chance to see if they can actually get it done. And they're in the finals right now. 2-2 with a chance to get it done. The next is, that's a bad decision. Tims is a great coach. He has his question marks on how he, how he rests his guys and how he obviously,

he wears guys out. But besides that, he don't do number one. I was in Chicago. He do number one in Chicago, and he has done number one in New York. I don't know why the man lose his job. Stop putting championship on everybody. You gotta have the personnel to win a championship.

I'm playing a team. You gotta have a personnel, man. I think they felt they had to make a decision fellas you know I'm saying considering the fact that they lost to the Pacers two years in a row you know they felt like they had to make a move to you know maybe maybe a light some fire and some guys because for me I felt the Knicks had I felt they got a pretty good team now they ain't deep they ain't no deep team,

but when you get Anna Nobly and what, Bridges? I feel like those dudes gotta do more. You know, with Brunson, you know, kind of holding the ball for so long, I think you depend on them for so much that, you know, those guys really don't have rhythm. They don't have no rhythm and continuity outside of playing hard and playing good defense

So I felt the Knicks felt man. We lost to this team two years in a row We got to do something we got to make a move and y'all know the players make a lot of money So, you know, we're gonna be the first one to go the coach got to go first. Yeah. Yeah The problem that the Nick you know what the problem the Knicks had Expectations. Yeah, Dame Lillard towards Achilles., so now they're only one guy that can beat us in Milwaukee. Jason Tatum goes down. So now it's smooth sailing. We got the Indiana Pacers and we're home. So we should be able to... So once it becomes... Nobody had the Knicks going to the NBA Finals at the start of the Eastern Conference playoffs. Nobody.

But what happened was you get, you get Dane goes down, you get Jason Tatum goes down, Indiana beat Cleveland, the Knicks beat Boston. Oh, we got, we got the paces. And so now the expectation is expediential. And so now when it doesn't happen,

oh, it's Tim's fault, it's Tim's fault. But damn, he did a great job to get y'all there. And then you don't have a backup plan. You don't, let's just say for the sake of argument, they wanted to move in a different direction. And they say, well, we were thinking about this the whole season, and we're not going to let going to the Eastern Conference Finals deter us. Who's going to be your coach?

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Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories

that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space

and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the You vs You podcast. I'm Lex Berero and every week we sit down with some of the biggest names in entertainment to talk about the real stuff, the struggles, the doubts, and the breakthroughs that made them who they are. We go deep, flowing childhood trauma, family, overcoming loss, and the moments that shaped their journey. These honest conversations are meant to take the cape off our heroes, with the hope that

their humanity inspires you to become a better you and therefore set you free to live the life of your dreams. Here's a sneak peek. I'm trained to go compete. I'm trained to be like go harder but sometimes that mentality stops you from stopping and smelling the flowers in your own garden. Is it wrong to want more? We migrated, our family migrated here. I'm like second generation. Who's not going to have a trauma coming from a foreign country and you come to the United States, you got, you got no problem. If one of the coaches that you're trying to get an opportunity to talk to gets fired, okay, what happens if they don't?

Who is your coach? Man, it's, it's, it's some other good veteran coaches out here. Cause obviously that's what they looking for. Some guy, some guy who's been around some guy who's one and there's a few of them out here Man, and I'm sure they'll find somebody but yeah to be looking for guys who are already in great coaching situations And I wouldn't be trying to leave neither But see you say they're great coaches out there if they was if the Knicks wanted those guys They would have never asked for permission to interview somebody that already had a job because if you believe somebody's already available

Hey, you believe somebody's available. I don't need to talk to anybody else. What I'm looking for is right there. I'm not going to have to give up draft compensation, and I'm not going to have to pay overpay because, whoop, if you got a job, what's the situation? What makes you think, I'm not leaving my job unless I get assurances? You have to give me a contract before I leave. You know, assurances. Now I take this. I say, yeah, I'll interview. They grant me position, give a permission to go interview for the job.

I don't get the job in the team that I left. I said, nah, we good. We going to different directions. Now you, no, no, hell nah. Hey, Seanant, Joe, Chad, let me just tell you this. We wasn't there, we wasn't in the room. I can just imagine being in the room. You got Wes, Leon Rose, all these different guys in the room.

If y'all mastermind, y'all come up, we need to fire Tibbs. It's something wrong. That's what those guys thought about. And like you just said, you just made a valid point. You don't have another coach already lined up. It ain't the coaching. Tim's got you over the armor. He built the culture. He started the culture there.

So why would you take him out of the spot that he's in? So I'm telling you, you gotta look at your personnel. Don't get me wrong. I think the Knicks are a very good team. Do I think they're a championship team? Absolutely not. But they are a very good team. But I'm going to also say this, and Joe, you understand this. Your best player is 6'1".

That's going to be hard to win. And I'm not saying that. Your best player is 6'1". You've got to figure it out. It's hard to win a championship. They're going to get two guys. Yeah, it's hard to win with that. Two guys.

You know, Steph Curry is one of the top 10 players to ever play the game. Yeah. We're not talking about him. Right. We're talking about Rick Brunson, who's a very good player. To me, he's an all-the-fame player. He is an all-the-fame player.

I got all the respect for Rick Brunson. But your best player is Rick Brunson. Carl Anthony Towns is a great number two or number three. Yeah. They tried the ones with him in Minnesota. He's a great number two or number three. And I They tried them once with him in Minnesota. He's a great number two or number three. And I like the way Carlson has played since he been in it. But you know, you like the way he played

the last couple of games getting to the ground. No, he hovers too much around the three-point line, Tuan. It does. But Shay, you got to realize this. You got to bring your expectations to real. This was most of these teams. You gotta have real expectations. You building something there.

You're building a situation where you're gonna be able to compete maybe for the next five or six years and give your fan base something to cheer about. Do that, Tims has been there. You gotta do that. Sometimes you can't cut, he's built a culture there. Give that man a chance. Yeah. To continue to build and add a piece into.

Your best player can't be 6'1", man. I'm just trying to tell you. That's what they was betting on. Well, it wasn't Tiv that gave up five first round draft picks for Mikaela Bridges. Yeah, that's true. So now you really don't. So what am I going to, what am I going to, I mean, you say, well, I want this guy, I want that guy. You don't have draft capital, and so you wanna try to keep your core together. You wanna probably try to keep OG. You probably wanna try to keep Josh Hart,

because he's your Swiss Army knife. He's the guy that does it all. He play defense, he can assist, he can rebound, he can score a little. You're not counting on him to go give you 20 a night, but if he can give you 10 to 12, 10 to 14, he gonna give you six or seven rebounds, he's gonna give you six or seven, eight, nine, 10 or seven.

Sometimes he'll give you a triple double. So, and you won't OG, but you're not deep. You got five guys and you normally go too deep off the bench. You go Miles, you go Miles McBride, and you go Mitchell Robinson. That's really all you go. Now you let Landry Shamett play a little bit late in the ball game, late in the series, you go Mitchell Robinson. That's really all you go. Now you let Landon Shamett play a little bit late

in the ball game, late in the series, but that's not, you only play five guys. You don't have a deep team. So, and so when, and like you said guys, you're six one guy. Well, you're talking about what Steph Curry was only six two, but Steph Curry's transcended. Just Steph Curry is a historically great player. Isaiah was the leader of his team. But you can't just say just because somebody could score

30 on a given night, so, oh, yeah, he can lead a team. It's more to that than just scoring buckets. I agree. I agree. I think they top five. They starting five. They can compete with anybody in the league, but it's the depth. You know, when you don't have the depth, like a lot of these teams have, of like an Indiana like a OKC

Somebody who can come off your bench and win you a game or two in the postseason torn Oh Joe Oh, it's gonna be hard to win because you put so much pressure on its own Jalen Brunson Cat you know you put so much you put so much onus on those guys for them to come out and be consistent every night to give you 30 plus points just for you, just for you to win a game. And I think that's tough for them. Uh, so I think as far as depth wise, they got to bring them guys some help, man.

Some, some, some guys that can come off that bitch and affect the game in a different way. Well, we knew game after game. Well, let me just go after this one. Joe and Ocho, we were on and we said after game one, let me just go after this one. Joe and Ocho, we were on, and we said after game one, the Knicks are in trouble. You got 43 from Brunson, you got 36 from Carl Anthony Towns, and you still lost.

And I asked the question, I say, so what's the likelihood that they can score 40 plus and over 35, because if you still get that many, think about how many points you got from your two big guns and They shot a great percentage. They were very very efficient and you lost If they gave you anything less than that, there's a great likelihood You were gonna lose lose this series and so I'm not surprised they lost this series considering game one But the question I would oppose you

There were reports that some of the players thought that Rick Brunson, Jalen Brunson's dad, who's an assistant, had too much say. Is this a move or are they trying to get Rick Brunson with a World Wide West and Leon Rose? Would they give that job to Rick Brunson? No, I don't think so. They won't give it to him, but let me ask you something. As an assistant coach, and you guys know this, we all play sports, he's supposed to have an opinion. Regardless of my service on the staff either, I want to take pride in my job.

If I was assistant coach myself, I still want the other guys to respect me, you gotta have an opinion. We don't know how Chills felt about Rick Brunson. He played for him. He played for him when he was with the Knicks. He already know Rick. What if he thinks Rick Bask's basketball IQ is through the roof?

We don't know that. He's a part of his staff. It ain't just, but this is the pros. It's not college. It's not high school where you gotta bring your dad in sometimes to get the kid to come. This is pros. He probably really felt, he probably really trusted

Rick's basketball IQ. He probably really didn't trust his really trusted Rick's basketball IQ. He probably really entrusted his opinion. So I can't say that. I'm not gonna do that. And Jalen Russell has been nothing but great since he's been with the Knicks with his dad on the bitch. It ain't too many guys that can say that.

That play well with his dad on the bitch. Right. And gets it done night in and night out. It ain't too many guys that can say that. That's not it. The problem with the Knicks problem is the expectations are too high. Don't, your expectations are high

because now you got a buzz, you had a great season, take nothing away from that. Build towards the championship. Take that luck this year. Make sure those guys come back. Add a piece or two. You don't fire the coach. No. Come back. Add a one piece or two you don't fire the coach no come back

add a one piece or two now you got to hire a whole new coach and now you feel like you got to add all this now you got to feel like you got to add two three pieces to the bench the whole new system think about it now you think now you know you really messed up well you could have just easily said hey well we've dropped the ball we're gonna be back next year Maybe you may add another piece off the bench, maybe two pieces that can help you out and get you over the hump. You got Jason Tatum, who's, I'm looking at everything.

Jason Tatum probably won't be back. Well, Tatum's not coming back. Tatum's not coming back. Tatum is not coming back until 26. You could, I mean, no, and I'm saying, he's not coming, he's not coming, he's not coming back this year. He's coming back the 26th, 27th season. So think, all I'm saying he's not coming back this year. He's coming back the 26th, 27th season.

So think, all I'm worried about right now, if I'm looking in the East, okay, the pace is gonna be good again next year. Milwaukee's probably, I'm looking at the top scene. They ain't not coming back. They ain't. Right, so now I'm in the mix. So what am I gonna blow up for?

That's why you know management is bad up top. I'm not gonna blow up. And plus, let's see, Cleveland. I don't think Cleveland's not in a management is bad up top. I'm not gonna go up. And plus let's see, Cleveland. I don't think Cleveland, Cleveland's not in a position to make a move. So they got their beat, they coming back. Let's see what the Heat does. Obviously the Heat's gonna make a run at Kevin Durant.

Why wouldn't you? But they're not gonna be the only one that can make a run at Kevin Durant. Do they have enough assets? Do they have enough pieces? Or what are they willing to give up to get Kevin Durant? Now you read that the sons are dropping their asking price because I mean, he's 37 and he's kind of,

he's been, he's injury prone. Is he a great player? Yes. But if you go back and look at Kevin Durant's history, he's been nicked, he's missed time, knee, ankle issues. So that weighs in, that's dropping his price. And just because McHale Bridges went for five first round picks,

everybody ain't gonna be that dumb. Just because Rudy Gobert went for four first round picks, everybody ain't gonna be that dumb. You know why Kevin Durant can't be moved? He make 55, 56 million dollars next year. So he's not gonna be, you know, somebody has to take him at 37, 38 years old. We all know KD can produce at that number.

That's not a problem. He's going to give you 25, 30 points a night. It depends on which organizations willing to give up a couple of their draft picks to get a KD at a younger age. I mean, at an older age. I'm sorry, at an older age. That's all it comes down to. He's going to produce.

KD is going to be there. He's a baller. He's a scorer. You know what you're getting with KD. The problem is his number is high. You're talking about a guy that makes 50-plus. 50-plus million, you gotta decide what you're gonna do. Do we wanna put 50 in a guy that's 36, 37 years old and see if we can get two years out of him?

That's why he looks good for the Houston Rockets. The Houston Rockets can use a veteran guy that can score the basketball. They got some young assets, and you can put with that little core they got and maybe get them over the hump. We just watched Houston in the playoffs, dominated all season.

They were number two seed. Yeah, we just watched them. But they missed scoring. If I'm in the pistol. They missed scoring. They missed a guy to be able to go to to get them a bucket. KD fills that gap.

If I'm in the pistol, man. Do you have enough assets to go to to get them a bucket. KD fills that gap. Do you have enough assets to move? It's all about assets for KD. KD still at that level, it's a matter of what you want to give him for a guy who's probably got two years at the level that he's playing at right now. His number's high. It becomes a number game. What can you give up? Because he's making, he'll make $50 60 million dollars a year. That's how it comes down to KD.

He's there. What you thinking, Joe? Man, if I'm in the Pistons, I'm trying to add him to this young group of guys that I have with Cade and them young dogs that you got over there. I think that he'll fit seamlessly over there, Tuan and Ocho. You know what I mean? Because he's a bona fide scorer, bro. We know that.

Now you can say, oh, he 37, but he got at least another couple years, another good couple years in him, and playing on a team like that to where he don't have to do that much dirty work defensively. You know what I mean? He can just be smooth and go out there and give you a cool 25 to 32 a night. Because that's what they was missing in the postseason.

Man, Angel, look, I'm on this show right now with three at 32 a night, because that's what they was missing in the postseason. Hey, Joe, look, I'm on this show right now with three athletic guys that took care of their bodies, great shape guys. You guys know that. KD is one of those guys. Yeah. Take care of his body. You're going to get two more years. That's why Brian is still playing. No, you guys are in league class. I didn't do what you guys did as far as body wise.

You guys are elite guys that took care of everybody throughout their career. KD can give you two years, Joe. Yeah. He can give you two years at a high level. Hey, think about it, Torn. Especially playing in the East, where you already know Boston,

I mean, they probably gonna be decent still, but you know, with Tater, they ain't gonna be Boston without Tater. Look at Dane. Milwaukee. Dane. Milwaukee. Dane gone. So the opportunity in the East, man, it's wide open. Joe, the problem is right now with Boston, this the thing.

And we'll talk about this on some later shows. But you got a new ownership group. They taking over a team. They're gonna break that up. They're gonna break it up. There you go. Shannon, I was about to say what I was gonna say. It's a business decision for them.

They may decide, hey, they don't wanna start off on the rear paying those type of salaries. You got seven guys on the Celtics making top dollar. Do they wanna continue to pay that? I'm talking about the Posingas, the holidays. I mean, even the six-year-old here. Derrick White. And Derrick White making one.

Hey, you got so many guys on that team that's making big money. You don't know what direction this new ownership may go. We just saw the Dallas Mavericks ownership take control and trade away. They they most they they they franchise player. We saw them trade away. Luca. So you don't know what this new ownership may group may come in after they pay what they pay five billion dollars for the Celtics.

What are you doing without an arena? You billion for the Celtics? Without an arena? Without an arena? You gotta think about it, they don't got an arena. They might wanna take care of the arena first. They might wanna make sure they got an arena playing first. So you know, these guys are businessmen. You don't know if they are committed to this type of winning and this type of salaries with these guys.

So we don't know what the Celtics gonna do right now. So it's wide open right now. That's what's crazy about the Knicks. You in a situation where things are wide open, when you got two top players on the Milwaukee Bucks and on the Boston Celtics that are coming out, two on the Killies, two Hall of Fame players. I don't wanna break that up.

What am I gonna break the coach up? I'm gonna give him another shot at this. Yeah. You know, you gotta see what happens. Carl Anthony Towns was hurt. When you get 100% Carl Anthony Towns, that Indiana series may go different. I could be wrong, it may go different.

But 100% Carl Anthony Towns may change that series. He played great all year. I thought he rejuvenated himself. I thought he had a monster year. But he ain't got hurt at the end of the year. But he got hurt at the end of the year. He wasn't right at the end of the year. I ain't gonna, I'm not gonna beat him up. I'm not gonna beat up on him like that.

He wasn't right at the end of the year, health-wise, and it cost him. Juan, thank you for joining us tonight, man. We really appreciate you breaking down this game. OKC 111, Indiana 104. Thanks for the insight. Hey, game seven, come back and join us if it goes seven and break down who won and why they won.

Oh yeah, I'll be here, baby. All right, appreciate you, T'Wan. All right, T'Wan. The Volume. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month,

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