Nightcap - Nightcap Hour 1: Unc & Ocho react Shilo Sanders WAIVED by Bucs + Stefanski denies Shedeur “Sabotage”

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

Unc & Ocho react to Shilo Sanders being waived by the Buccaneers following his ejection, and discuss whether he has a shorter leash in the NFL compared to his brother Shedeur. Plus, we dive into Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski clapping back at talk he’s trying to “sabotage” Shedeur Sanders and Jerry Jones admits he let his ego play a role in the Cowboys glory days, and much more! 2:00 - Shilo Sanders waived by Bucs20:36 - Kevin Stefanski says he’s not trying to sabotage Shedeur Sanders30:55 - Brian Schottenheimer says he will meet with Micah Parsons47:43 - Jerry finally admits Ego ended Cowboys Glory days (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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support my cognac laporteurtee just head over to laporteurcognac.com to grab your bottle please make sure you go follow my media company page on all of his platforms that's shay media and my clothing company 84 with 84 being spelled out that link is pinned in the chat we've got grammy nominated rapper lucre joining us a little bit later but first ocho the headlines the buccaneers informed rookie shylo sanders today that he's being waived his agent drew rosenhouse robert bailey a former teammate of mine with the ravens added we're hoping he'd get claimed of waivers Ocho, where do you think Shiloh will land?

You know what? I'm not sure where we'll land. There's some teams out there that could use some depth, especially at the safety position. I'm not sure what the Bengals look like in the secondary. I think Steelers can add, the Saints can add to

their secondary as well. He's going to get claimed. Where he gets claimed, I'm not sure where that would be yet. Listen, for one, he has Austin representation of Robert Bailey and Drew Rosenhouse. Obviously, they represented me while I was playing in my tenure. So he will get picked up. Where he gets picked up, I'm not sure, but he has the right person in his corner

to make sure he gets another opportunity to play the game that he loves. Sometimes your last name can be a blessing and a curse. It's not normal that free agents have breaking news that they're being released. He's an undrafted free agent. And because his name is Sanders, the blessing and the blessing and the curse. People say, well, Shannon, he only got an opportunity because his last name is Sanders. I haven't, I mean, maybe you can recall the last time an undrafted free agent. It was breaking news that he was getting released. Well, getting waived, whatever the case may be. Go ahead,

don't you? Anytime it's a rookie, especially an undrafted rookie, the only time they make the news unc is when they get in trouble. Right. Is there an arrest of some sort, anything coming out of college where they've gotten in trouble? And, but that's pretty much it. Because of the last name is why it's breaking news and um it just it's like you say uncle it's it's a gift and a curse yep and um i just you know hey you sit back and you reflect and you're like okay it didn't work out here maybe somebody gives me an opportunity it works out somewhere else um you don't know this is the first time that shallow has been told he's not good enough i mean he's been a a phenomenal player, obviously he got his first start with the University of South Carolina.

He got a D1 scholarship. His father gets the job at Jackson State. He goes and joins his father and his brother at Jackson. And then when his dad gets the head coaching job at CU, he follows, you know, the two sons follow their dad there. This is the very first time. And it's really hard because think about it, Ocho, he's 20, I think he's 2425. Yeah. And for the first time in 24, 25 years, somebody has told you, you're a very first time.

not good enough now it's it's one thing if you know you get cut from your high school team you get cut from your junior varsity team or something like that he's 25 but think about it think about this ladies and gentlemen I mean for the first time of your life you're in your mid 20s before somebody ever tells someone ever others to you you're not good enough forget forget it be a sport maybe it's a job maybe it's something but to be told you're not good enough because your whole life you've dreamed about being an NFL player or your whole like your dream job whatever the case that may be you dreamed about holding this dream job and then all of a sudden

they're like you're not good enough um per yahoo sports we're told that buccaneers enjoyed having shiloh in the building viewing the son of deon sanders as a good kid who at all times respectful to everyone shiloh could in theory sign with the buck's practice squad after clearing waivers the bigger question is whether he's good enough to compete and play at an NFL level. That's always the case. That's what you weigh, Ocho, because if you bring somebody back on the practice squad,

you're saying with a year under our bill, a year under his belt in our system. Developing. We think he can develop into a player that could play for us. Yes. Get office, defense, and maybe he's just a backup. Maybe, hey, they pay backups just in case people to know.

They do pay backups in the NFL. And, you know, he can be a special teams player, punt, punt return, kickoff, kickoff return. Maybe he could be, whatever the case may be. Now, that's what the Bucks organization, that's what they have to weigh Todd Bowles and that staff. I forget the general manager. I just read reading something the other day about the general manager because he was talking about, what's the linebacker they let go? He was LSU. They ended up letting him go and he would go to Philly.

Now he's found a home. I think he's at the Texans, or maybe the Raiders, or whatever the case may be. But I just saw his, I just saw his name. That's what you have to, that's what you're up against. You got 16 spots, so that's a lot of people that you can bring in. All those 16 players, Ocho, basically we're saying that we believe with another year in our systems, offense or defense, we think down the line, he just need a little bit more time to develop. We think this kid might turn into a pretty good player for it.

Absolutely, absolutely. him. Let's take another look at it. Let's get a, let's get a bird's eye view. Let's stay with him for a year and let's see what kind of player he turns into. So hopefully that's something, if he doesn't get claimed off waivers, hopefully he gets an opportunity. Either the bugs or someone gives him an opportunity, because maybe he just needs another year to develop into an NFL player. Maybe that's the case. Maybe it isn't. Everybody, everybody, that particular, particular dream. Everybody doesn't get to realize it, Ocho. Yeah. Yeah. Because, but you know what, my brother had a very interesting take on a dream. He said, you know what a dream is, Ocho, a dream that comes true? Uh-huh. He says, it's a gift to yourself. A dream is a gift to yourself. You, I had very similar dreams. I need to play in the NFL. Got to. There are no other options.

I didn't have a plan B. I got my degree, but my plan A, B, C, all the way through Z was go play in the NFL. And my determining factor was to get my family out of the situation. Now, my brother gave us a head start. But I wasn't, that wasn't good enough for me. He did it.

I never thought there was nothing that my brother ever did that I didn't think I could do. Not one thing. He's like, I like, he went to college, man, I know I can go to college even though I wasn't the student that he was. I didn't apply. He applied himself. I never applied myself. I was, you know, hey, I got this God-given ability. I'm extremely talented. That'll get me by. It's an amazing. I think it's amazing when I see kids that come from lineage, like a time, like a Clay Matthews, senior, like a Bruce Matthews son. Peyton Manning, when your father has something and you still have a burning desire to get it for yourself. That's very impressive to me.

Coming from our situations, Ocho, it's easy to be motivated. Oh, yeah, yeah. Being hungry, being hot, being cold, it's easy. Being rained on, it's easy to develop motivation. But what happens when you have none of those extraneous circumstances? Yeah. Yeah, you got to want it. You got to want it. You got to be self-motivated too. And you got to understand when you have fathers that play in the NFL that were very, very good, not just, you know, you're regularly average players. Then also as a child having to live up to that height, having to listen to the comparison of your father. You're not being as good as your father just yet, maybe. But sometimes the pressures of having to live up to in the shadow of a father that was extremely good at his craft can also, it can be the moral at times, he's not focusing locked in. I mean, a great example of one of the players who was able to do it,

T.O. Terrell Owen's son, you know, I'm sure he's had to deal with all the outside noise, but having a father like Tio, that's going to make sure you're prepared for all the nonsense that comes with. Don't worry about trying to be me. Just be you. Just be best Tariq Owens as you can be.

Hell, this past weekend, what do you do? Scored? Could be the pops? You know, that has to be one of the greatest feelings in the world to have a son, to overcome that or a daughter, whatever respective craft it is that they do or choose to be in, that that has to be a dope, dope feeling. Of course.

I think the thing is, Ocho, the biggest thing is, are you living in your parents' shadow or are you embracing it? That's a good one. That's a good one. I would never force my child to do anything they don't want to do. No. I would never force my child to do anything. Listen, I would love, I would love it.

You know, if you want to play football, so be it. But there's nothing that will ever force you to do. You know why? It's never forced you to do. But you know why? Because playing football was your dream. You don't know if that's their dream. No.

See, a lot of time when people force their kid to do something, they're living vicariously through the child. Now, I'm not saying in all situations because I think everybody wants their child to be successful at his or her chosen path. Right. But a lot of times we see the behavior. And kids, people can't think about now, oh, my son going to the NFL, My son is going to be a major league baseball player.

My son is going to be a basketball player. Let the kid, let a kid be a kid. Right. You're not supposed to look at your child as a paycheck. You're not supposed to look at your child as the way out. That's a good one. That's a good one. Oh, you're not supposed to live vicariously through your child

because you weren't able to achieve the dreams that you want. You couldn't do it. So now you're going to put that, hey, hopefully the child embraces and wants to be that, whatever he or she chooses. And then you nudge them along in that direction. Don't, hey, this is what you want to do. And my son very early on is that, this ain't me. This ain't what I want.

I got a question for you. I got a question for you. Now that we're talking about that, it's a great topic to talk about. When you think about fathers like Joe Jackson, fathers like Tiger Woods, pops. Yes. Serena and Venus Dad. Beyonce father. Yes.

Fathers that actually understood early on, this is what you guys. need to do to be able to reach success you talk about prodigies though you told me you told you told you you told you talk about wasn't but but aunt you got to understand as fathers you never know that these prodigies are going to be what they turned out to be you think i say dad understood that she would be one of the greatest of all time i mean she no in the choir you young joe jackson you have tall you have you have sons that are talented you have to put them through the through the work to actually get to that clinical that you envision. Is that not almost like the same thing?

They're seeing something that they weren't able to accomplish and they feel that their child or kids should be able to be able to live out their dream? But if you go back and think about it, go back and listen to the parent. The kid was excited to get up the next day to go do it again. Okay. They never had to force the child to go do it. Right. They never like, come on, Tiger, you got to get up.

Tiger was four or five years old. He already had his bag. He was ready to go. Beyonce, they never had to drag Beyonce into rehearsals or say you need to practice. She was ready to go. Mike, he's with the Jackson Five.

Hey, we got a group, nice little group. Hey, and I'm sure, but, and, and, you know, a lot of times, you know, it's hard. Tiger had a very strange relationship with his father because of the things that transpired in the household with his mom. Right. We know Mike had a very troubled relationship with his father. He ended up firing his dad as soon as he left the group.

I think in 79, fired his dad. All of them to end up firing the dad as their manager. Right. So we understand, but as a child, you don't understand that, Ocho. You don't, you don't understand that he, your parent, mom, or dad is trying to push you in a direction because they see something in you that you don't see yourself. Yeah. But, but the child has to want it.

Because if he or she begrudgingly do it. Yeah. Listen, when they get old enough, when they get old enough to make their own decisions, all the work things you put in, it don't go to waste because the child is going to turn. Now you know it, the same. That ain't what I want. We've seen them. Man, I just, man, I ain't even want to play no more football.

I ain't even want to play no more basketball. And that's, and here's the thing. I saw somebody and he said, he said two things, motivation and discipline. When you're not motivated, are you disciplined enough to go do what you need to do? Yeah. Motivation. Oh, yeah, Ocho. Oh, I'm motivated.

Oh, boy, boy, boy, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a certain level of the motivation is not there because you're not going to be motivated every single day, every single time. But will you be disciplined? Understanding and realizing what it takes to get to where you ultimately wants to go. Two more examples. What's that? The ball and what he did with the ball.

Yes. And Amon Ross St. Brown's father as well. Mm-hmm. A, magic, great creed magic. Yeah. But he said, he'd say, hey, the boys, hey, they wanted to be at the gym. Yes. It is easy when someone is motivated and their discipline.

That's the easiest person because you look at the greats. Michael Jordan is extremely talented. Look at the motivation. Look at the discipline that he had. Look at a LeBron. Look at the Colby. You look at the greats or the greats. Yes.

Not only are they extremely talented. they're extremely driven individuals i'm talking about obsessed yeah yeah serena was obsessed that's when you get when 20 30 40 years from now when we talk about some of the best of the best female tennis player that's why she's always going to be mentioned because she was obsessed with it yes she's ultimately talented to be able to for her to be able to move around the court like he could with that with that powerful forehand yeah federer he's like he's on clouds like he's he's he's ballet he's birishin the cough with a bat with a racket but we wish the best we wish the best for all these guys but some of these sadly is going to come to an end some of these guys

are not going to get uh uh what do we call it ocho practice squad opportunities some of these guys it's always the end of the road oh cho but we got a new angle from the play you yesterday in which your door threw a punch and ended up being ejected. Shiloh, I keep saying Shadoo. Shiloh, Bill, Zach Davidson, grabbed the face mask of Shiloh

after the whistle. So are we going to show that? We can't, oh, it's the NFL, yeah. But what happened was after the play, he ends up grabbing Shiloh's face mask. Yeah. And it looks like, you know,

hey, you know how it is, Ocho. Yeah. I'm trying to get his hands up. offense or hey he won't let it go so i take i take a swipe at if i see you i see you buddy you can't you can't you in the wide open yeah and not even about being in the wild it's it's joint practice i understand a little scuffle in game preseason no matter what you're in the fit you in the trenches you know you're you in the you in the middle of you can't you just can't do it you got to suck that one up you got to suck that one up and pick a time to get him before the whistle blows pick a time to get him

for the whistle blows within the scheme of what y'all got going on you can't do it there's really there's really no discourse there's no dialogue that needs to go on about it you can't do that you're right you right yeah when you're right you ain't wrong and you're in this situation you're absolutely right and i i know i know the our instinct is to get him back yeah get it not to get but to get him back right now ocho it ain't good it ain't good it ain't good it ain't good enough to get him back at a later date and time yeah i got to get you back right now because you got me so since you got me i got to get you you got four quarters you got four quarters you know i mean hey listen it's football man you you know you know how it is out there you you know

how it is oh i know i know but i had to deal with people trying to kill me for four quarters for a decade yes yes great every week And I got I don't got people man, man such and such dirty what happened? Man, I was, oh Joe, you know how it is, Joe. Hey, oh, used to cut people. Well, did I? Yeah, see, I ain't, I ain't do that. I ain't do that.

I ain't do that. I don't, I don't like, I don't like, I don't like going below the knees. I'm just to me as small as that was, as frivol as I was. as I was I never wanted to cut people for the simple fact I don't want to be responsible for you losing your career or did you think did you think about my career when you did that cheap issue you did well you thinking about my family when you did that were you thinking about my grandma were you thinking about my brother and sister my kids when you did what you did I got you oh now you want me to think

now you want me to have a heart right I'm sorry I don't but I would have teammates like man it's such a dirty I said oh man's like number such and such. I was like, what did he do? Man, I joke after the woods. Oh, he got. I said, okay, let's get him. Let's get him. Oh, that was some good days, boy. Oh, man. Oh, good days, boy. Oh, oh, you got to get guys. You're not been to get us. In fact, we're not going to do anything about it. Oh, Joe, four of the five offensive linemen that were blocking for Shador Sanders yesterday were waived by the Browns today. D'Artagnan Tensley, Bucky Williams, Javion,

John Cohen, Sebastian Gutierrez or Gutierrez, one of them. I went to high school with a young lady named Christi Griteris, so Guterres. Some people say Gutierrez and some people, she went by Gutierrez because she was Nicaraguan. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football podcast.

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So, Kevin Stavansky clapped back this morning saying he was, he's not trying to sabotage Chador. Another piece of info came out overnight. If Stafansky wasn't trying to sabotage, why was undrafted rookie Greg Larvinian not in with Shador? What's it, Gagne? Gage, damn, huh? They were all these names. Gage has been. with Shadour throughout the camps,

practiced an even first pre-season game. He also trains with him outside of practice. Why yesterday was he not in with him? Oh, Chah, I don't know. Hey, we beat the dead horse, I don't know. Yeah. Tyler Huntley was released. Tyler Huntley was released yesterday, Ocho.

Which begs the question what you and I say. Okay, you know you're going to wave Tyler Huntley. So what good did that two-minute drive do? for him. Was it going to help him? Don't you think Shadour would have benefited more from a two minute drive than Tyler Huntley? I'm just asking. If the guy, if one guy is going to be on your roster, it seems like they're going to keep four quarterbacks on children. Doesn't it seem it would have been more beneficial for Shadour to get the two minute drill because that situation that he might find himself in during the regular season if something were to

happen to the quarterbacks in front of him as opposed to Snoop Huntley? Yes or no. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But one thing we don't know of is we don't know how that coach staff is thinking, we don't know what's going through their mind, we don't know what Coach Defansky's thinking. I'm not sure what they were trying to look at, maybe get one last look of Huntley before whatever decisions you want to make. But again, I don't know what else to say at this point. Honestly, I mean, it is what it is.

obviously you want quarterback play an opportunity to be given to each and every person they saw fit they saw fit the way it is they're keeping four quarterbacks and that's where it is now I mean that's where it is now I know one thing

I've watched a lot of football for a long time I watched a lot of quarterback play for a long time I played with some good ones you know so I mean they made the decision This is the way they wanted to go So I wish the Cleveland Browns Nothing but luck in their quarterback situation

Because once the season starts for real week one And then bullets flying All over the place for real Yeah Be a different ball game It's going to be a different ball game It is Look, I'm just a firm believer

If you go back and study Joe Flacko Since he's been away from the Ravens, expectations You see, when he came in for Deshaun, there was no expectations. But what happened when he went somewhere in there with expectations? How did he do? Different ballgame, huh? Yeah. The pressures of having to play that position are a lot different.

Preseason is one thing, you know? That's all shits and giggles, no disrespect. It's all vanilla. I don't think people understand how difficult that position is to play when you're being schemed. Right. when they know what's coming, when they're trying to confuse you, when they're trying to throw you off your pivot. It's a different ball game.

You got a lot of moving out there in front of you. You got to make calls. You got to make line adjustments. You got to make, you got them second level backers. Being able to pin, man, it's a different ball game, you know. Now, the Browns haven't been able to get that quarterback situation right in a very, very long time with that. I know.

Why I think, I mean, all of us, not just you and I, but the chat as well and other people that are watching, you know, everything unfold. I mean, this has been a very long time since the Browns have been in, been in discussion like this and in the mainstream media in a very, very long time. And maybe they got it right this time. Maybe they didn't. But if they didn't get it right, the search for quarterback number one will still go on at the 35 tries of trying to.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. And that's the thing, that once you win, there's an expectation to win. So, you know, Joe Flacco coming out off the bench, there ain't no expectations. Because most times, people have the backup, you're not expecting your backup to be able to carry you.

That's why he'll backup, or he'd be somewhere starting. Right. He wins two or three games. Now the level of expectation we have is risen. Yeah. And then we see the precipitous drop. I know one thing. I know what's that?

We're doing all this Browns talk and all that. The Browns are very, very. very, very good. And this is coming from a Bangal fame. Like, I'm no fool. The identity for this team is their defense. But their Ward, Newsom, Miles Garrett, and the rest of the boys. That's their identity.

That is who's going to win game for them. Now, what you need the quarterback to do, who will be flacco, is we need you to play good football, ask what we do of you and don't turn the ball over. This is what Kurt Warner said, the guy that, one a Super Bowl, he's a two-time league MVP, he was a Super Bowl MVP. He said, I was really looking forward to the competition between Dylan Gabriel and Shedurt Sanders in the last preseason game.

I know it plays out like this sometimes, but what a bummer. Didn't have the same ops, which is the opportunities to make plays. DG played well again, but had some good opportunities to make plays. SS didn't have those same ops, so it was hard to make too much of his assessment. Well, what's all? I mean, listen. I mean, Ocho, if you're a receiver, if you're a receiver, Ocho, and I'm a receiver. Now, when I'm in the game, we call it pass plays.

You in the game, they call it run plays. How do they go fairly judge you when you don't get the same opportunity that I got? So how do you judge, how do you judge your door when you didn't give him? Look, he missed some throws, he had some protection. Sometimes he's going to have to do a better job of getting rid of the football. That's always been my biggest gripe with him is that he holds on to the ball too long and he's trying to make every single play.

And you cannot, there's not ever been a quarterback that can make every single play. Sometimes it's okay to throw the ball away. Sometimes it's okay. Instead of completing 70% of your passes and 70% with 6,7 sacks don't do me no good. Right. I'd rather you complete 60% of your passes,

58% of your passes, and have three sacks. as opposed to completing 70% and having six or seven sacks. So he's going to have to do a better job of untraining himself. Throw that ball away. And it's okay. You don't have the foot speed to outrun people around the edges. There are not very many defensive ends, if any, that you can beat to the edge.

Yeah. So step up in the pocket. They're not there. A one, two, check it down or throw it away. Go ahead. Don't show you want to say something. No, no, no, you're right. You're right.

I mean, one of the things that he does have is he has good awareness. He has good pocket presence based on what's around him at times, no possible time. You feel the pocket collapsing around you instead of floating back, just step up in it. Step up in it. And it was hard for him to actually step up because once those ends were coming around, the guard, the two guards, everyone was getting pushed in his face,

so it was hard to be able to step up in final lane. And they blitzed. They blitzed. They brought pressure. Yeah. So the offensive line suddenly doesn't know how to hold up once your door Sanders starts playing, but Dylan Gabriel has all day to dance in the pocket.

Something isn't adding up. I remember being a young offensive lineman fighting for a job. My old line coach came up to me and said, hey, Swartz, you need to block worse when Smith is playing quarterback, so he looks bad. Totally normal conspiracy that happens all the time. No, I don't, I don't, look, ain't nobody telling you to play bad. Why am I going to play?

I'm trying to make the team. Yeah. Me making, first of all, Ocho, if I'm an offensive lineman, the quarterback playing good isn't tied to me because if I get beat, no, we're not a package deal. I'm playing good for myself because they're valuating me. When they cut that film on, they ain't really looking at the quarterback drop. They're looking at me.

How did I say it? Did I get beat inside? Was I supposed to, was I not supposed to get beat inside? Did we, hey, did I Molly like I'm supposed to? Did I combo block? Right. Did I pop like I was supposed to? That's what they're judging me on.

So for me, I ain't, who, how Ocho caught the ball? Or did the tie didn't run the right route or did the back do what he's supposed to do? I'm worried about my responsibility. That's what I'm concerned about. Right. Shannon's responsibility. And then because everybody's getting evaluated. We're not getting evaluated as a package deal.

man the quarterback played good oh so everybody no no no no no no no everybody getting evaluated on their own individual plate so i know jeff was trying to be funny uh uh look i just think the guys that were in there the offensive line but they weren't very good and so now you got the perfect storm mocho you got four or five offensive line but there aren't very good and you got a quarterback that holds onto the ball now you got the perfect storm now you got a category five and you got an earthquake going on at the same time i'm not our disaster is about to unfold. Oh, yeah.

And that's what we saw yesterday. Yeah. Hey, man. You do what you can with the cars that you're dealt on. That's the way life. You do what you can with the cards you're dealt. Whatever hand you got, you got to play it the best you can. I agree.

Some hands are great. Some hands not so great. That's just life in general. I'm Dan, he's Ty. Hello. And we're the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast. College football season is here, and you know what that means. Your team is going to break your heart three times, probably before Halloween.

Uh-huh, but fear not. The Solid Verbal will be right there with you through every soul-crushing loss and impossible comeback. Join us all season long, all year long, as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous. sport. Whether you're a die-heart fan or a casual observer, we'll help you make sense of all the chaos and, of course, celebrate the madness. Tune in for previews, recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. We don't just love college football, tie. We live it. Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back40 on Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The U.S. Open is here, and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the players from rising stars to legends chasing history. The predictions will we see a first time winner and the pressure. Billy Jean King says pressure is a privilege, you know.

Plus, the stories and events off the court and, of course, the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very fancy, wonderfully experiential sporting event. I mean, listen, the whole aim is to be accessible and inclusive for all tennis fans, whether you play tennis or not. Tennis is full of compelling stories of late. Have you heard about Icon Venus Williams' recent wildcard bids or the young Canadian, Victoria Mboko, making a name for herself? How about Naomi Osaka getting back to form? To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an Iheart women's sports production in partnership with deep blue sports and entertainment on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

I'm Simone Boyce, host of the Brideside podcast, and on this week's episode, I'm talking to Olympian, World Cup champion, and podcast host, Ashlyn Harris. My worth is not wrapped up in how many things I've won, because what I came to realize is I valued winning so much that once it was over, I got the blues, and I was like, this is it. For me, it's the pursuit of greatness. It's the journey, it's the people, it's the failures, it's the heartache.

Listen to The Bright Side on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dallas Cowboys head coach Brian Schottenheimer-Ocho says he will meet with Michael Parsons after Micah was seeing laying on the medical table behind the Dallas Cowboys bench during Friday night's final preseason game against the Falcons. without talking to Michael, I need to figure out what he was doing and why he was, why he was, uh, was going. Anyway, I don't know what actually wrote here. So until I talk to him, I'm obviously, I'm not going to talk about it to the media. What exactly? Because, okay, this is what Michael said, Ocho, he tweeted. I actually appreciate this.

The way the media shapes perception and narratives is, wow, if he didn't have, if he didn't have anything to say, everyone would just have run with it. I'd never disrespect the guys out there fighting for their lives. I'm just an interest in clarity and fairness. Michael Parsons was not laying on the training table all night. In fact, it was only a relatively short portion of the evening. Well, you could have had him in uniform. You're paying me money. Yeah, that's true.

That's true. Hey, two things can be true. Yes. But I know one thing, Jerry going to drag this thing all over. out, boy, they play September 4th, if I'm not mistaken. Is that Thursday? A week from Thursday. Hold on.

That's next week Thursday, you know? Yes, a week from Thursday. Ooh, woo. I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited. If Mike is not out there, I don't think they stand the Chan defensively. No.

They still got, if I'm not mistaken, they still got 26 over there in Philly, right? Yes. I mean, Philly, they still got, they still got that offensive line, too. So I don't know what type of pressure you think you're going to get, without Micah with Lane and Maillotta. Now, Dixon, Dick, Dixon might be out. Right. So, I mean, one thing.

Even with Dixon out, but come on now, come on now. We talked about the reigning Super Bowl champs, I understand what they're up against. Man, come on. Now, if anything, it's going to be a game because the Dallas Cowboys offense and their new additions are going to be exciting. I'm ready to see, I'm ready to see George.

If they could hold up. Huh? If they could hold up against the Eagles. Listen, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. They're going to hold up. It's week one. You ain't going to have no choice.

You ain't going to have no choice. Boy, number four, trying to get that ball dealt. Boy, you hear me? He's going to throw that thing to 13. He's going to throw that thing to 88. But then boy's going to get busy. And I'm not even a Cowboys fan.

I'm a fan of certain individuals and players. You know, I want to see that good well. I want to see who I really care about. You want to know who I really care about doing well? I want to see George Pickers play. I want to see George Pickers play. Boys Pickens, lock in for 16, 17, 18, goddamn weeks. That's what I want to see.

Shit. Here we talk about it. Hey, Chad. Chat. Who's your favorite team? Huh? Chat, can y'all hear me? Hello?

Chat, who's your team? Who are you looking forward to watching week one? No? Can they can hear me? Shit. goddamn, goddamn cowboys. Jerry don't want to pay Michael. I know I got something to look forward to.

I got forward to looking to George. I look forward to George Pickens. George Pickens. But Micah needs to understand, oh, Joe. Yeah, what happened? Talk to me. It'll be the same situation if you're under contract. You're holding in.

You're not holding out. You're holding in because you're there. Yeah. And you'd be standing on the sideline and you're laying down. Michael, what do you, what you think people are going to say? Okay, okay. You already, you already, first of all, all the eyes are on you. First of all, you're on the Cowboys.

That's first and foremost. Second of all, you're on the training table. And I understand, even if you just laid down for a quick second, they're going to make it, they're going to make it something. So you, I want you to understand this is going to be a story until you get signed, until you're in, until you're in uniform. So even if you, they don't give you a contract. Everything you do is be a monitor.

They're like, well, Michael don't care. Micah doesn't care. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That is one thing we're not going to let fly. We're not going to blame Micah. I'm not talking about you. I'm just saying in general, just that narrative about Micah not caring because you're laying down.

Well, hell, the goddamn owner don't care. The owner don't care. The owner doesn't play. Huh? So let me ask you a question. let's just say that was a t j wott and he was holding out and he's laying down on the training table behind the bench you don't think they would say anything about that let's just say for the sake of argument that's jemar chase and the bingo's offense are up and he's laying down

behind the trainer table you don't think they're going to say anything about that yeah i understand what you're saying that's all that's all i'm saying micha needs to understand he's a superstar player and when and you lay you laying down look i got you i got you it's just what what's the word we like to use the optics the optics yeah yeah shit i'd be laying down to it my owner talked about me the way he talked about him so a either the question is is he going to miss uh one what is it what is it one point two million dollars of paycheck that's the question is he is he willing to risk one point two million dollar paycheck now he needs to get he's there he's there he's there If he doesn't play?

You're going to pay him if he don't play? My back hurt. I'm in. I'm here. I'm here. You said I'm on the contract, right? Okay, I'm on the contract. You know what?

I have an injury. I have injury. But I'm here. Didn't you say, didn't you say you don't want to pay me because it's a chance? Yeah, I missed some games last year. Well, how about what? I'm still here. But.

What the question is, does he want to go take it to a grievance? Because the cowboy is going to say, we don't got MRIs and we got everything. And the doctor said everything, everything's like everything. checks out. So now you're going to tie it up. Hey, it's a dirty game, huh? It is. Hey, it's a dirty game. The fact that it, the fact that it's even gotten to this point, but one of the players, not just one of the better people, but one of the top three of this position, the fact that it's even gotten to this point. If it was any other team,

Michael would have had his money. I think he would have been in training camp. He would have played in a preseason game or two. But Jerry has other ways of doing things when it comes to business. He knows how it's abducted to make sure that the noise and the chirping continue to stay around that franchise in general. I'll let you know, I'm going to pay you when to get ready. You're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, you're not, d-boe and you're not bullying nothing. I don't care who you are. Yeah. Jerry said when he sat down with Stephen A. Smith, I've been around, I've been, been for a long time. Oh, Jerry, prove a point now. Listen, I've heard hooping and hollering from players that were

disgruntled about contracting their money for a long time. That ain't for the move me. I'm not moving for that I pay you when I get ready you're not going to bully Jerry I've been watching the Netflix special oh why was it it was good it offers a lot of insight

is what people look Jerry wanted more credit Jimmy was getting too much of it Jerry wanted some of it and Jimmy's like nah and it came to a head that the man fired the coach that he won two championships because he wanted credit

and he wasn't getting enough of it. What he wanted Jimmy just say? Well, the way Jimmy explained it is like, and Jerry said, I mean, Jerry out his own mouth, you run the football, I'm going to run the business side of it. Right. But the business side is not nearly as enticing

as the football side. Because don't nobody care about the market and who's selling all the stuff and all the stuff that's up in. They care about that football team. And Jimmy put it together. And it started, you know, Jerry wanted credit for the Hershal Walker trade. People say it with Jimmy. Jimmy said, I can show you in my contract where I was in the draft and I was inside a trade.

Jerry says, no, that didn't happen, blah, blah, blah. It was just, but if you're watching it, you can see it building. Even not knowing the back, not obviously we know. know this 20 this 30 years ago oh Joe right right knowing what we know now but even if you didn't know anything if you just watch it you're like oh yeah they're thinking to come to a head it's going to come to a head absolutely right and the final when you know jerry walked through they had just won the Super Bowl and and the coaches were drinking and jerry walked through and held his glass up and all the other coaches held that glass up jimmy did this

Hmm. Wait, they showed that? No, they told a story. Oh, man. Then Jerry, Stephen. Because, see, Jerry wanted to be a part of it. Yeah, see, that's the thing. See, that's why we tell people, everybody rings are not the same. And everybody in an organization might get the ring.

But unless you one of them got one of them guys, the 53, them coaches, it's different. Yeah. Right, right, right. And so Jerry wanted to be a part of that. But Jimmy's like, bro, you're not, you're not putting in 100 hours a week. Right.

You get to go home every night and sleep next to your wife. A lot of these guys don't. You've watched your kids grow up. A lot of these got kids, they're going to miss, they're going to blink, and the kids don't graduate. And you wasn't there for a lot of these special occasions. so jerry wanted to be a part of it jimmy resented the fact that just because you own the team you want to be a part of it you can be a part of this but you can see it you can see it coming

you could see it coming you can see it coming both of them are very very pride for men there's no question jerry he's the order business man he could sit there ain't a whole lot he can't sell right not a whole lot he can't sell and he can sway a lot of people to get on his side but the way jip the way jimmy had that team clicking on all cylinders they might have won three four in a row yeah dang but yeah my could you i don't think michael truly understands who he is, what the cowboys are, and everything is, everything is bigger in Texas. Hey, Michael just want to play football, huh? Mike ain't worried about that. Mike ain't worried about that motherfucker's on that helmet. Michael came in there, okay, I got drafted. I'm here. I'm play for

the Cowboys. I understand. I understand what it comes with to an extent, but I don't care nothing about that. As you can see, I want to play football. I've done something that not very many people are coming to this league and done after college. I would like to be conversated for what I'm not going to, not what I've already done, but what I'm going to continue to do in the foreseeable future. Yeah. You have a owner who came out and said some of the most outlandish things to say about a player that is actively under contract. I mean, that, I'm still, I'm still baffled. For three more years. I'm appalled. I'm appalled. I'm appalled. I'm appalled. Jerry said you want to dance with me

or do you want to swim in shark-infested waters for the next three years? You got to dance with me. Hey, at one point, if I'm not mistaken, being a cowboy player in general was coveted. Being a coach for Dallas Cowboys was coveted.

When they won. Not no more. That's when they were treated like rock stars. That's when they were treated like rock stars. They were like Hollywood. They was all on the covers. Emmett and Troy and Michael and Time and all those. They were winning.

They were winning. They're still a big brand. But all those guys are getting on no cover, no magazine like it used to be. And this was before the internet. Right. But they're going to have to make a decision. Well, look, they got a week from Thursday they play.

Let's see what Jerry can. Jerry says, we've got a deal. Jerry says we got a deal His deal. They got his deal. That's what Jerry say. They don't have the deal that Michael Parsons and David Mulageta have agreed

to. Jerry said that don't matter. Jerry said, hey, there's three people involved here and you know who the least there's me, there's Micah, there's me, and the least important is the agent. Hey. but you got to be careful, man.

You got to be careful as a player. You got to be careful as a player thinking that if you're your friend because this is what they do to you. They show you your true colors now. Right. Yeah, they pull this off right now while you're valuable.

You are value to me which is why I'm treating you like this. Now, while you think you're value, I don't really want to pay you your worth but I'm matriky and try to shake your hand so I can undermine the agent and who know the tricks and who knows the tricks I'm trying to pull off.

Ain't no fool, that. Ain't no fool. Language. That's, I just, I just need, Micah just needs to understand. Hey, bro, you don't want to stand. And I know, getting, hey, standing on that sideline, now you see why all them coaches walk messed up. That's standing three hours, man.

That thing has your back tight. Hey, just go grab your seat on the bench and just sit there and watch it on the Jumbotron. They probably have something to say about that. But hey, hey, I'm out here supporting my teammates. I got a question. Yes. Dallas Cowboys Philadelphia Eagles, Week 1, Thursday night.

Who you got winning? I think it's going to be the most watch Thursday night football game in NFL history. I'm going to take the Eagles. Okay. You sure? You be sure about that? Yep. Yep.

I want the Eagles. I want the Eagles to win 45 to 7. God damn! Because I want Micah to get his money. You remember back in 93 when they started the season 0 and 2? Oh, and 2? That's the only way Emmett got his money. Honey, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

I won't Michael to get his money. I want Jaylor Hurst to throw for 300. I won't Sequin to run for a buck 50. I want those two wide receivers to go of 100. Damn. And I want the time of possession to be something like 60 minutes in game, something like 38,000. 39 minutes to 2021 do because I want my going to give the money oh he's been a model citizen

he's done everything he's done everything the right way right now you want to hold up the man money oh man that's that's that's that's I could I don't we have a deal in my and my he keeps saying in my mind we have a deal a deal that the contract is a meeting between the minds Micah doesn't believe you guys have a deal. That's why they have paper. So let me ask you a question. Could they do this? So in Jerry's mind, this ain't worth of nothing.

In the NFL binding, that's why they have contracts. That's why they had to go to writing it down on paper. Because a contract in its general form was a meeting of the minds. Two people had agreed and their word, your word was your bond. And then what happened? All of a sudden, that ain't what I said. That ain't what I meant. And so, you know what?

Write it down. So in Jerry's mind, in Michael's mind, and Mike are mine, they don't have a contract. Right. So it has to be a meeting of the mind before the contract to be binding. So. Oh, Jerry, boy.

Jerry tried to pull a fast one, boy. Oh, yeah, for sure. He's a smooth talker. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, Cho, it took 22 years, but Jared Jones had finally admitted he let his ego play a role in the end of the Dallas Cowboy Glory Days. Jones and former coach Jimmy Johnson ended their relationship after consecutive Super Bowl wins in 1992. 93, neither man had accepted responsibility for the demise of the relationship.

But Jerry said, I lost my tolerance for a lot of things. I probably should have a little bit more tolerance for Jimmy Johnson. Seriously. Those are some big words coming from a man that once said 500 coaches. could have won those Super Bowl with this team. Since Barrett's Switzer, Jerry has hired five coaches who have delivered just

two playoff wins. See, the difference is, you see what he said? Yeah. Five hundred coaches could have won the Super Bowl with that team. Right. How many of those 500 coaches could have built that team? Because that's what Jerry did. See, you can have a lot of people that

can live in a house, Ocho, but how many people can build the house that they eat or she lives in? See, that's what Jerry forgot. See, that's what, that's what, that's what Jerry forgot. 500 coaches could coach this team. Yes. But how many of them can build the team?

Right. I'm sure there are a lot of coaches could have coached the Eagles. How many of them could do what Howard Rothman did and build it? see you find very few coaches that can that can coach and build right jimmy built that from scratch he built it from scratch now jerry started what but the thing was he wouldn't let jim he wouldn't let jimmy go on no on no meetings no advertisers no marketing meetings he wouldn't let jimmy do that right because that's not what jimmy was that's not what he happened but see it started rolling good all that credit everybody's about jimmy jimmy's built one of the best teams jimmy jimmy

he didn't hear enough jerry he looks back he look he look he look at it he could they could have easily have a 10 15 year run just like the patrons had a 20 they could have got at least half that because you got to realize emette troy and mike was in their prime i think mike was the oldest at 28 am would they ever get back to that type of prominence again and domination no no league is to balance now right and they don't they don't get consistent enough play at the quarterback position and nobody's going to trade you or charles you're not going to be able to get a time and nobody's going to trade you a Charles Haley level defensive player

in his prime. Well, here you got one not too far off now based on what we have to work with in today's NFL. You got one you don't want to pay right now. Yeah. But think about it. A difference maker. Troy, Hall of Famer.

Emmett, Hall of Famer. Michael, Hall of Famer. Larry Allen, Hall of Famer. Charles Haley, Hall of Famer. Dion Sanders, Hall of Famer. That's six. Darren Woodson is on the cusp. So that's six guys.

So how many Hall of Fame you think they got on that team right now? And their offensive line was dominant. And boy, were big, right? Big easy, step. gogan two and a newton larry came later but they were dominant and i went to the provo with larry one year man that joke over strong remember they had them them competitions

competition yeah the racing and uh man larry larry allen must have bench 225 man 20 million time like man what the hell but i saw i saw this episode And Jerry is telling the story after he fired Jimmy, he comes home. And he gets in the bed and he lays next to his wife, Gene. And she said, you just couldn't help yourself. So you just can't let good be good. You just couldn't, could you? And as he's saying it, he almost starts to wail up.

because a lot of times, Ocho, when things are good, you think they're going to be like that forever. And he realizes now just how hard it is. Because see, when things come down to me, think about it. He bought the team in 89, and then by 93, he has back-to-back Super Bowls, 89, 90, 91, 92,

so it's fourth year of buying the team, he's in a Super Bowl. The fifth year, they got two Super Bowes in five years. what you think happening they think that's going to be easy look at the team we got a quarterback is in his mid-20s running back like 25 Michael urban like 28 huh ego you see what happens now he said he had something on his death desk that if you don't care who gets the credit you can conquer the world he said he had that on his desk for 20 years but see the way he had it placed on his desk it was facing out he never read it everybody else that would come in there would read that

right but he should have had one that was facing him also yeah that's crazy they were special you had we played them i mean we played them we played them in 92 the first year they won we took them right down to the wild they ended up scoring they beat us uh but it i mean i think they scored late in the ball game i think they scored like two minutes to go to beat us and then we played them again the 95 the year they won, they were good. They were really, really, really, really good. And they were young and they were athletic and they were physical. They were a physical team.

Jimmy, you hear Jimmy early on and say, hey, let the mind control the body. Don't let the body control the mind. I like that. Hey, Jimmy, hey, Jimmy said, I'm pushing them farther than you could think you can go. Jimmy said, hey, dude had asthma. He said, hey, have asthma on that field. Don't you have asthma on this damn field?

Have asthma over there. Damn, Jimmy. You know, the bad can't help. Where are you having an asthma attack? Man, Jimmy didn't play. Jimmy did not play. But I think, I think Jerry looking at that and seeing it. could you and the realization like damn we really had we really had a chance to be the

patriot before the patriots yeah you don't think you don't think that mr crav got tired of hearing coach bellichick coach bellichick coach bellichick Tom Brady Tom Brady Tom Brady man let me come on let me keep on collecting these rings I'm the ring collector and I only cared about that's it that's it that's it you know, two different, two different type of personalities, two different approaches to the game and how I'm going to conduct myself in not only owning the team, but allowing those below me to do their job. Yeah, I think the thing is, but Mr. Krabb understood. I think he learned from Jerry's mistake.

I haven't been to mess this up. Right. I'm not having to mess this up. I'm Dan. He's Ty. Hello. And we're the solid verbal college football. Podcast. Tune in for previews,

recaps, bits you won't hear anywhere else, and all the emotional support you need as a college football fan. Join us all season long as we ride the roller coaster of this ridiculous sport. Listen to the Solid Verbal College Football Podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We don't just love college football tie. We live it. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Humber.

hunt part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Tune in to All the Smoke Podcast, where Matt and Stacks sit down with former first lady Michelle Obama. Folks find it hard to hate up close. And when you get to know people

and you're sitting in their kitchen tables and they're talking like we're talking. You know, you hear our story, how we grew up, how Barack grew up. And you get a chance for people to unpack and get beyond race. All the Smoke featuring Michelle Obama. To hear this podcast and more,

open your free IHeart Radio app, search all the smoke and listen now. The U.S. Open is here. And on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain. I'm breaking down the player. The predictions, the pressure, and of course, the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open. The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very wonderfully experiential sporting event. To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an IHeart women's sports production

in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.