Nightcap - Nightcap - Hour 1: Warriors beat Rockets on the road In G7, Pacers shock Cavs on the road in Game 1!

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

Shannon Sharpe, Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson & Joe Johnson react to the Stephen Curry & the Golden State Warriors going on the road to beat Jalen green & the Houston Rockets in game 7 to advance to the 2nd round, the Indiana Pacers go on the road to beat Cleveland Cavaliers in game 1 & we look at the preview of Golden State Warriors vs the Minnesota Timberwolves!01:46 - Introduction04:00 - Rockets v Warriors28:27 - Pacers v Cavs46:51 - Spida55:47 - Ant-Man on the Warriors(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Thank you guys for joining us as the Golden State Warriors, the number seven seed, take down the number two seed, Houston Rockets by a score of 103-89. They go on the road just like they did last time. They went and won a championship. They went on the road, beat Sacramento and Sacramento. Steph Curry had 53. It wasn't Steph this time. It was Buddy Hill, but he got great contributions from Draymond, Jimmy Butler, and Steph caught five in the fourth quarter, and they win going the way, 103-89.

Y'all know me. I am your favorite Hulk, Shaddy Shark. My partner and co-host, the Liberty City legend, the Bengal Ring of Fame honoree, a pro bowler, an all-pro, that's Chad Ochocinco Johnson, a.k.a. Pepe. And also join us to talk about all things basketball from University of Arkansas, Atlanta's own. Number seven, ISO Joe Johnson. Joe, thanks for joining us again. Please make sure you hit that subscribe button.

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The Warriors go on the road to Houston and win a game seven. Thanks to Buddy Hills, 33 points, 12 of 15 shooting, nine of 11 from three. Got 20 points from Jimmy Butler. shooting, 9 of 11 from three. Got 20 points from Jimmy Butler. He got 28 and 8 from Jimmy. He got 16, 6, well, 16, 6, and 5 from Draymond, and he got 22,

10, and 7 from Steph, but Buddy Hill was what put him over the top, and you know, when you go on the road, Joe, and you get another, that chip's in, and he does more than what you expect, you're probably going to win that game unless the star, you know, one of your big guns just totally misfire. But they got 33 and you see Buddy had it going early.

12 of 15, 9 of 11, 33 big points. He's plus 17. And then Steph caught fire in that second half, mailing the fourth. He had 22, 10, and 7. Jimmy Butler with Jimmy Butler, 28 and 7. And Draymond was 16, 6in the fourth. He had 22-10-7. Jimmy Butler was Jimmy Butler 28-7. And Draymond was 16-6-5. What did you like about what you saw from Golden State, Joe? Man, Golden State.

They showed that championship pedigree, Uncle Ocho. This was about game seven on the road, playing in a hostile environment, understanding what's their state. And Steph pretty much, he struggled pretty much the first half, but I thought Draymond got him off to a decent start because he had two threes in that first quarter and got him a layup, so

they kind of got him going. I feel like any points you get from him for real, it's like a bonus. It's a bonus. I was thinking like, okay, Draymond might win this game for him tonight. If he can scope out 22 points, Draymond might win this game for him tonight. If he can score about 22 points, I say he might win this game for him tonight. But as the time goes,

Buddy Hill, man, he changed the whole game. The man didn't even score last game, Ocho. He got great cardio in. The man was at home in Golden State, didn't score, and he come on the road, get 22 points in the first half, bro. Man, those are the type of guys that we talk about,

the others that got to win you games, and he stepped up tonight in his game seven in a must-win situation and gave them his best performance. Yeah. Yeah. He scored, as Joe said, Ocho, he scored zero points the last game. The game before that, he only had four points. So he didn't do much in games five and six.

He tied the record for the most three-pointers in a game in NBA history. Buddy Hill, three-point field goals in the first half, he had six. The Rockets had two. I thought the Rockets, I didn't like their body language early on. In a game seven, they're going to let you play. They let you play in the playoffs to begin with. They're definitely going to let you play. And you look at Shingun's body language,

when they didn't throw in the ball, he's slumping his shoulders. I didn't like the body language from the jump, missing shots. And he had some very makeable shots. I mean, he point-blank range, and he was misfiring. So that's you, bro. You can't get mad because, look, you make it seem like you got Magic Johnson on your team and he's going to see you every time you pop open. It's not like that.

Fred, you know, he got caught fire a little bit in the second half, mainly the fourth quarter, but he didn't really do a whole lot. When they win, he's like 24, 25, you know what I'm saying, Joe? He's getting that three-point ball going early. But they got eight points from Dylan Brooks.

They got eight points from Jalen Green. Jalen Green is too talented to have games like this. And he's been doing this. And Ocho, I know I'm going to let you chime in to this. I know you like him because he's immensely talented. Yeah. But, Joe, far too many games. And they had seven games. I saw far too many fours and eights from Jalen Green. But Joe, far too many games. They had seven games.

I saw far too many fours and eights from Draylon Green. Go ahead, Joe. Hey, listen, I enjoyed the game. I think the Rockets did a very good job of trapping Steph, playing consistent defense on him, which is why I think he struggled a little bit in the first half. Obviously, if you look at the points, he finished with 22, but he kind of struggled the first half of the game.

You need a game like this from Buddy Hill. I think Buddy Hill actually saved the day. Listen, the Warriors, big three, they combined for 58 points, 24 rebounds, 20 assists,

and they did a little bit of everything. Draymond did what he did. You knew Jimmy Butler was going to show up, but for Steph to have a game like he did, I thought he was going to come out

and go for 40 or 50 tonight. That's what I thought he was going to do based on his performance last time, but Buddy Hill saved the day. Like you said, he was going to come out and go for 40 or 50 tonight. That's what I thought he was going to do based on his performance last time. But Buddy Hill saved the day. Like you said, he was 9-11 from behind the arc. He had 33. And I think

he's the reason they won game 7. Obviously, the Rockets didn't help themselves with the way they played and their body language. They had a decent output and performance from most of their players, but it wasn't enough. I think a game like tonight, you would need Jalen Green to step up and be the player that I think and other people know he can be,

but such low output offensively is not going to win you many game sevens. Hey, go ahead, Joe. But to kind of piggyback on what y'all are saying about Jalen Green, man, it's like when you watch the games, it's like if it's not a three-pointer, it's something that's forced at the basket, right? Yeah. Where's the middies at?

Where's the mid-range game at? Like, we have to have that, man. I know analytics and kind of took it out the game, but in the playoff, the game slows down. There's not as many possessions only that you will have during the regular season. So you have to value those possessions and you want to get great shots every time down the floor.

So I think for me it's just like him getting in the lab, man, and really working on his mid-post, you know, his mid-range game to the point to where you can give him the ball and he can get you a bucket or he can raise up and shoot that mini, bro. Like you can't just live and die from the three. He didn't think, okay, my three ball ain't can't just live and die from the three. Right. He didn't think, okay, my three ball ain't working. Let me force something to the cup.

Because now you're all out of rhythm. I think you got to have a mid-range game. And it's just a lost art in today's game. Yeah. If you look at what Golden State was prepared for that trap, if you notice, they hit the mid, they swung the ball, wide open three to Buddy Hill. Or they come to pick and roll, and then you got Buddy Hill wide open for the three.

You got Jimmy Butler. You got this guy. So they were prepared this time. I thought, for me, I thought they went to the big lineup a little bit too soon. They went with Shungun and Adams a little bit too soon. And they were ready for it this time around. It didn't surprise them. And that's what happens. It's kind of

like, who was that? The Clippers. You remember Clippers, they inserted Nicholas Batum. And it caught the Nuggets off guard. When they tried to go to another switch lineup, Nuggets said, we got something for y'all this time around. Run it back. Oh, okay. We got something for you.

I thought, think about it. They go on the road in a hostile environment, and they only turn the ball over seven times. So they value the ball because, you know, you have to value every possession matters. Because as Joe said, you're not going to get as many as you normally. It's not going to be as up and down. So you're going to have to get a lot of your points in the half-court set

because teams are not going to let you run out and get 50, you know, 34 transition points. It are not going to let you run out and get 34 transition points. It's not going to happen. I thought Golden State did a great job of swinging the ball. You look at Draymond has five assists. Jimmy Butler has seven assists. Steph has seven assists. Okay. So

everybody's making an extra pass. Everybody's doing what they're supposed to do. Okay, I can live with that. Because they didn't get anything from the bench and it's not like Houston got a whole lot from their bench. Golden State bench gave them three points. Kevon Looney had a field goal at a free throw. But Jabari Smith, Eason, and Steven Adams, they only gave you 11 points.

That's not enough. Especially when you get the output that you got from Buddy Hill, Steph Curry, and Jimmy. They gave you 72 points. No, 75 points. Yeah. Well, your starters don't get nowhere near that, so now your bench is going to have to come in and give you production.

Yeah. I think the only guy for me that I was really impressed with the night from the Rockets was Amon Thompson. It looked like he came to play until he tweaked that calf, and he kind of wasn't the same guy on that, you know, had that layup and he got fouled. But he was 24-9, three assists, three steals on the block.

But the rest of the guys, I didn't like their body language from the jump, Joe. I didn't like their body language. I saw a lot of this, a lot of that, and that's not what you need in a game seven. You need everybody to be upbeat. Bro, what you thought? You gonna make your first 14

shots? Right, right. It's tough, man. It's tough. I thought I love Thompson. I love his game. I love the energy and effort that he played with throughout this whole entire series, attacking, and the defense that he played on Steph Curry. But for me, man, I think

Steph was probably the biggest key tonight. If y'all really watched that first half, watch how he gave himself up and was setting picks for Buddy Hill, and Buddy Hill was getting wide-open shots. They kind of got rhythm. So that's why I said that championship pedigree, it came through in Game 7 for them. It's unfortunate for the Rockets.

They're a young team. But I think this is probably good for them it's unfortunate for the Rockets they're a young team but I think this is this is probably good for them to kind of go through this okay Ocho you know what I mean you know they gotta get they gotta get a guy I know you they gotta they gotta get a guy Joe that they can give the ball to they don't have anybody that they can give the ball to and say go get me

a bucket that's why I'm telling that's why I'm saying Jalen Green has to develop into that guy. That's who's got to be him. See, I told you, I told you, Uncle, I said that the other night. I said Jalen Green, based on what I've seen, the potential that he has, young bull get in the lab and add some more to the toolbox, he going to be all right. I know a guy that can do that right now, Kevin Durant.

Go get him. If you got draft capital, I'll package. Hey, I'll package to have Shingun and to have Thompson and to have KD. I'm good. I'll package Jalen Green. I'll let Jalen Green go. Damn, Uncle Green didn't let the man develop yet. Joe, what would you do, Joe?

No, right now, you're talking about winning here. I'm doing that, too. Okay, okay, okay. I'm talking about winning. Oh, Joe. Okay, what would you do, Joe? Nah, right now, you talking about winning, yeah, I'm doing that too. Okay, okay, okay. I'm talking about, oh, Joe. Okay, okay, okay. You know, back in the day, okay, you got a three, a projection. Here's our pie chart. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Ain't no more. Oh, Joe,

I'm saying that because, and we looking at it from their standpoint, I want guys who can affect the game if they're not scoring. And you still got Dylan Brooks who's going to affect the game. He don't have to score a lot.

But, you know, he's going to have some decent nights. And then you got Thompson who, you know, offensively, whatever, he's going to be a project.

And I think the sky's the limit for him as far as potential and what he could be. You know what I mean? And you're talking about adding KD to that, man. Yeah. Yeah.

So, add KD with Shingun. You got a guy that's down on the block, that can rebound. He can run your offense. KD, he plays without the ball. Yeah. But in a tough situation, you can give him the ball. You can put his back to the basket and you give him the ball and he can shoot that turnaround.

Yeah. They don't have a guy right now. They're by committee. And there are a lot of teams like that. There's nothing wrong with that. But when you run up against a team, and they have that guy, that they can go give him the ball, and say, okay, go get me a bucket. I just,

like I said, I think that's what the Rockets need. I mean, this was a two-seed. I mean, but I think the Warriors were favored. The Warriors were favored to win this series. They're the seven seed. The Rockets are the two seed. And there's why. Guys that have been in Game 7, Draymond, Jimmy Butler, Steph Curry. So they

know what it's like to be in that moment. These guys are young. They don't know what that pressure is like. Even though you're at home, you don't understand. It's the finality of this. And that moment, you look at how free they were and how they well they played and you look at the guys i thought they were tight and it showed in their body language early because when you tight you get frustrated at least thing man throw me the ball

we're just two minutes in the game we got 46 more minutes to go i'm gonna i'm gonna get it to you and unless you know how important this game was. Steph Curry played 46 minutes. Jimmy Butler played 45 minutes. Draymond played 40 minutes. Brzezinski played 40 minutes. Steph don't normally play no 46 minutes. They understood the moment. They understood the moment, and they took advantage of a young team,

a young, inexperienced team. And they knew it from the jump. Yes. And they came out and a young team, a young, inexperienced team. And they knew it from the jump. They were great. And they came out and showed why in game one. And, you know, they had their struggles. But I can't understand how the Rockets played so great like that in game six. Game five and six, and then they lose. I'm like, I just knew they was going to come out with the energy and effort.

And like, okay, we got a chance. Yeah, they look completely different. You know what happens sometimes, Joe? I think teams fall in love with this game seven and we got it on our home court. You relax. Okay. Because the longer that visiting team can keep that

crowd suppressed, the harder it is for you to use momentum to get back into the ballgame. We saw that with Indiana with the Knicks last year. Yeah. Yeah. So, A, you better A. Give the fans something to cheer about.

Keep them on their feet. You end up dropping down by 13. You drop down by 14, 15. What I'm cheering for, you make a basket. You still 12. Yeah. Right. Right.

I've been there. I know the feeling. I'm talking about Steph Curry. Yeah, my bad. Go ahead. Go ahead, Joe. I will say Steph Curry and Draymond are the first pair of teammates in NBA history with 10, 5, and 5, and 2 blocks in the same game 7. Steph and the Warriors eliminated the Rockets

again. Houston has failed to beat Golden State in the playoffs for the 5th time since 2015. The Warriors eliminated the Rockets in 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019, and 2025. They closed out the last three of those in Houston. In Game 7 in 2018, they closed them out. In Game 6 in 2019, Game 7 in 2025. A decade straight of owning a franchise,

a city, and a fan base. And, you know, you weren't on here last night. Some of those Game 7s and Game 6s, who's on that team, Ocho? We talked about it last night.

Remember how he didn't show up last night for the Clippers? Oh, you're talking about DeBeard? Oh, yeah, yeah, DeBeard, yeah. Yeah, but listen, he didn't have a good game scoring, but Young Bull was facilitating that thing like a shit, man. They need more than that, because the only guy you're going to get points from is Kawhi that you can count on. Yeah.

Hell, what about that game what was that game six yeah he facilitated and scored yeah he gave you 11 he gave you 11 assists and he still gave you 24 points yeah I mean listen I think I think especially last night's game for the Clevers I think James has to come in with a mindset instead of getting everybody else acclimated allowing them to get find their rhythm he got to be aggressive he got to be he got to be aggressive but being the point guard obviously for your first order of business is to get everybody else going and then you know what i can get mine on my own when i need to he's not one of those he's but see you're thinking of a prototypical point guard yeah he's a scoring point guard yeah that's what a a true point guard to get everybody involved

don't average 37 in a game for a season you don't have 35 straight games of 30 plus points if you're a prototypical Maggie Johnson, John Stockton Jason Kidd type point guard that's not what James Harden is that's not what he's ever been he's one of the greatest

ISO players that we've seen in this game. His game is predicated on scoring. Yes, he can get triple-doubles. He has a 60-point triple-double. Yes, but James Harden can put the ball in the basket as good as anybody. And that's what they needed from him last night, and they didn't get it. And so that's what got them to get an opportunity to go back to the Nuggets

because he and Kawhi gave you scoring and he facilitated. Plus you picture putting Norma Powell in there. He played sensational in game six. But I think the thing is, but we've seen far too many games, Ocho, like this from James in a game seven. Remember what happened in Philly? Yeah. When the Celtics came in and they had like nine points?

Mm-hmm. You put a, oh, you, oh. In 2023, as a member of the 76ers, game seven loss, he had played 41. He had nine points, seven assists, six rebounds, five turnovers, and 41 minutes on three and 11. 2024, the Clippers, he finished with 16 points, seven rebounds on five of 16. Shooting. 2024 the Clippers he finished with 16.7 rebounds on 5 of 16 shooting 43 minutes and a loss to Dallas Mavericks in game 6 in the first round the Brooklyn Nets 2021 he was 5 of 17 from the field

2 of 12 from the 3 in a game 7 loss he did have 22 points but it took him 17 shots to get it he had 14.6 2015 in that loss is that the one he said the NBA record for turnovers he had 12 turnovers on 2 of 11 shooting from the floor 14.6 yeah against the Warriors

NBA record Ocho in turnovers yeah 2017 Rockets finished with the game 7-0 that's when they didn't play is that when they didn't play Kawhi Kawhi didn't play in that game remember Kawhi was hurt and he didn't play and Hold on. Is that when they didn't play Kawhi? Kawhi didn't play in that game. Remember, Kawhi was hurt and he didn't play.

And they got beat by like 30. Hard had 10 points, 76 turnovers on two of 11 shooting. And that's the thing. Don't deny it. He's an MVP. He's a 75,

one of the 75 greatest players to ever play in the NBA. But it's moments like this, Ocho, that really separate. You go back and look at the greats, and it's moments like this. Right. The Jordans, the Colbys,

the Shacks, the LeBron, the Birds, the Magics. This. This. Game seven, all the chips. Hey, I'm going all in, Ocho. What you got? I'm going all in, too. All What you got? I'm going all in, too.

All right? Yeah. Cards gone money hunting. Hey, it seemed to me that he got worn down. Even with you running them numbers down, it's like, you know, in a series, you know, the opposing team, their job is obviously to oppose their will. And if your best player or one of your best players, you want to try to wear him down throughout the series,

are you going to really stop him? Not really. You're just trying to hope to contain him. And it seems like James, when he gets to those late game sevens, grueling series, like even the other night, he looked out of gas. He looked like he didn't have that pump. He didn't have that burst. Because I was thinking, yeah, man, the Clippers need James to come through

with about 25, 30 points a night for them to win. Right. It seemed like he never had the energy to really put a step on the game like we know he can. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't think he was aggressive enough either. Because, you know, when James Harden, that is absolute best, James Harden is getting it to the rim.

He's getting to the rim, and he's getting fouled. He didn't get there nearly enough. He didn't look like he had that pop. It's like, you know, they take him out of the game when he runs pick and roll, so it's like he'll give it up, and he'll just be chilling, like, you know. And then he tried to get back in, but it's like he can never get involved or get himself engaged enough to really put his stamp on the game the other night. I was watching, I seen him

multiple times just trying, but it just seemed like it wasn't there. Yeah, I think the thing is for James, is the most important thing for James is to get James going. Get James going first, and then you can, hey, because now once you get James going when they come, now you can

give it up and you're giving Norman Powell easy shots. Now other guys, Zubats, are getting easy shots. But when you try to get everybody else going, now it's hard. Now you're out of rhythm. And you don't have the rhythm that you need in order to get to your float game, finish at the rim, and shoot that step back three. So, you know, look, who am I to tell James Harden? He's the MVP.

He's the guy that's been the all-NBA selection, the 10, 11-time All-Star. Yeah. But yesterday, what they needed James Harden, they needed game six James Harden. Yeah. That's what they needed. They needed somebody to go along with Kawhi, and they didn't have that yesterday. You know, there has been a debate, you know, D. Wade or James Harden. It's hard for me to pick Harden over D. Wade because I've seen D. Wade.

All you got to do is go back and look at that first championship. Yeah. Them four games that D. Wade played, it's hard for you to say anybody has played better in a four-game stretch in NBA Finals history. Right, right. Go back and look at those games. I mean, the average 36 for the series. He was special, man.

He was special. He was on one. The funny thing, comparison, I always say this comparison is a thief of joy, especially when it's coming to comparing players. And the first thing, obviously, D-Wade, that stretch he had in that series, I was able to see that live.

I went to a few of those games. I was there myself also. But the first thing, D-way that stretch he had in that series on i was able to see that live i went i went to a few of those games i was there myself also but the first thing all you know d-way got three three d-way got three rings too now d-way got three rings so really doing a comparison i don't think it takes away away from james harden greatness no no no no no no he's great yeah absolutely but just when it when it matters most for him, for some reason, and on game sevens, he just hadn't showed up. And it's something that's happened time and time again. And there must be something to it about, obviously, like Joe said, maybe he's worn down when it gets late into the series like that

and he's not really the James Harden we're used to seeing. Yeah, I think because in the playoffs, Ocho, y'all know, man, listen, that's some tough basketball. Y'all see the injuries. You see how physical the game is. Yeah. I think because in the playoffs, I'll get Ocho, y'all know, man, listen, that's some tough basketball. Y'all see the injuries. You see how physical the game is. Yeah. I was born. Even if you ain't got the ball,

it's bumping, grinding. Like, it's taxing on the body. You know, that's every other night in the NBA. So I think after a while, you take enough of them, you know, it's bound to wear you down a little bit. Yeah. Made for This Mountain is a podcast

that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into

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But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick.

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Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second. I'm going to ask...

I'm Leon Nafak, co-creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran-Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree with you.

I just... I knew this game seven for the clippers i knew it's gonna be predicated on james hard because i know what i'm gonna get from kawaii kawaii's gonna give me somewhere between 22 and 28 probably gonna give us about seven rebounds probably about five assists so i already know what i'm gonna get from him yeah now who's gonna be the other guy and the third guy because you normally need like two guys for sure and possibly a third guy. When you go on the road for game seven, you see what you got with the Golden State Warriors. Yeah. You get Buddy give you 33 and you get Jimmy give you what he gave you and then you get Steph.

Yeah. That's how you have to do it. So I was counting on Kawhi and James. And then, okay, where are you going to get other points from? Is it going to be Norman Powell? Who's going to chip in? Is it going to be Norman Powell? Who's going to chip in? Is it going to be Zubat's give us one of those games where he give us 20 and 14? Who's going to be the third

option? Well, there was no third option yesterday. It was just one option, and that wasn't nearly enough. The Indiana Pacers go on the road, and they beat the number one seed, 121 to 112. And again, it's by committee. Because you know why?

They had six guys in double figures. Pascal Siakam, 17 points. Aaron Neesmith, 17 points. Miles Turner, 13 and 11. Nemhar, 23. Halliburton, 22 and 13. And Matherin, 11. That's how Indiana, see Indiana, look, make, and Matherin, 11. That's how Indiana—see, Indiana, look.

Make or miss, Indiana trying to push tempo. Yeah. I don't care if they say, we'll take it out of there and run, or we'll get it off the glass and run. But we trying to run. Right, right. Straight track. It don't matter.

It's going to be high pace. And Cleveland, man, this is a tough matchup for Cleveland. Okay, Ocho. Yeah. Garland, their all-star guard is not playing in the lineup. I know Donovan had, what, 33 tonight, but he took 30 shots to get stuck. Inefficient. That's not good enough.

And one from 11 from three. Yeah, it's going to be hard for them to win, but I thought they scored enough. I just don't. They can't stop Indiana. Indiana, when you look at Nembhard and Naismith, the two guys in the starting lineup who are very great complimentary pieces

to Hallenberg, Turner, and Pascal Siakam, they were huge tonight. They played, they both played big. They both were super efficient and they gritty players,

bro. They gritty players to where, you know, they're going to get the job done on both ends of the floor, Ocho. They're going to make shots. They're going to sit down in that chair. They're going to guard. And they're going to cause havoc. And I thought tonight those two alone pretty much won them the game.

Yeah, most definitely. Listen, Indiana shot impressive, especially from behind the arc, Joe. And them boys were 53%, you know, from three. That guy down them hard, you know, he was behind the arc, Joe. And them boys were 53%, you know, from three. That goddamn Nimhard, you know, he was five or six from three. And the goddamn,

the Cavs, the Cavs struggled, you know, from a three-point range. They won number 24%. Yeah, them boys, them boys, Nimhard was making big. Oh, yeah, he was letting it fly.

He was five or six. Neesmith was four or six. Big shots, though 6. Me Smith was 4 of 6. Big shots though. Big shots. They were. Yeah. Some big shots down the stretch. And you think about it, they had a big lead and then Cleveland closed it and Cleveland got the lead. Took the lead by like 3. They didn't panic.

Because a lot of times, you know, you have a big lead like that, you're on the road, Joe, and the home team come back, you panic like, oh, we let one. They said, no, nope, nope. Nemhar hit a big three. He comes back down and hit another big three. Like I said, the Pacers are

by committee. They might not have a guy that went 40, but they're going to have a bunch of teams. They're going to have a bunch of teams going on. 17, 17, 13. That's how they beat you. They're going to push pace. Hallib going on. 17, 17, 13. That's how they beat you. They're going to push pace. Halliburton's looking to get the ball ahead quick.

They give it to him, and they say, you know, he's got the ball ahead to see how come he laying it up. Or Obi Toppin. Because they got guys that can run the floor. Pascal's going to run the floor. Lee Smith's going to run the floor. Turner, who's a big, will run the floor. And so when you got guys that will run the floor,

Halliburton is going to find you. Hey, and look, 13 assists with one turnover. Yeah. How long do you think Garland out? Hell, he's been out for a minute. Yeah. There's no chance of him coming back. I still think he's going to be.

I don't know if they can win this series without Garland. Because they have to get that big thing. Where else are you going to get the score? Where are you going to get the score from? That's exactly what I was going to say. I thought Mobley played well. Yeah, Mobley was balling, especially on defense. But I need more than 13 shots.

See, I need five of those shots that Mitchell took. I need those to go to Evan Mobley. I mean, 13. You got 33. I mean, if you look at the stat line, it's like, oh, man, he did have 33. He took him 30 shots. Right. Yeah, 13. You got 33. I mean, if you look at the stat line, it's like, oh, man, he did have 33. It took him 30 shots. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. With 30 shots, bro, you need to have 42, 45. Yeah. No, but no. The time Jerome kid coming off the bench, he got up 20 shots off the bench. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's way too, yeah.

But, you know, in his defense, without Garland out there, they need somebody else to, you know, apply pressure. He's had some big games throughout the season, huh? Evan Mobley. Yeah, he got to be more assertive. He got to assert himself a little more. But I'm going to tell you, Indiana with Matherin

and T.J. McCollum coming off the bench, I like the energy that they bring when they come into the game. So I do think this is going to be a tough, tough series for Cleveland. I'm saying Indiana, they got a great chance of winning this. Hold on. They got up 20 shots in 29 minutes. Hey, hold on. Hold on.

I hear everybody's tone is changing. Because when I asked y'all before about this series, both of y'all picked the Cavs to win it. I thought Garland was going to be playing, Ojo. Okay, okay. I didn't know Garland was out. I didn't know all that. So, who you got? I mean, based on what you saw tonight from the Pacers,

you still got the Cavs? I don't know if they could win it, Ocho, without Garland. I mean, you going to be down one All-Star and beat a team like this? Yeah. I'm just making sure. Because they're not dependent on any one guy. Right. So, you don't know who's going to be your leading scorer

from night to night. So who do I key on? Absolutely. Do I get Halliburton? Do I get Milhard? Do I get Turner? Turner could easily have 23, 25 points.

Neesmith, Siakam. So it's so hard. Yeah, we want a guy that can close, but in a series like this, one team is down their all-star, and we seem to be

clicking on all cylinders as we started. It's going to be awful hard to overcome. And, you know, Hunter, and we seem to be clicking on all cylinders as we started, it's going to be awful hard to overcome. And, you know, Hunter, I would like to see Hunter get up more shots. Bro, you got eight, you ain't get up with eight shots. He was in the running for six,

he should have been in the running for six man of the year. I agree with you on that. I need Hunter to be way more aggressive, like, you know, he's the one guy I think who can make a huge difference in a series just by his mindset alone. He got to turn it on a little bit, especially if Garland

ain't going to be around. Donovan Mowgli, they're going to need that third guy, and he needs to be that guy who can step up and really get him over the top. Halliburton is the snake, though. He's the head. When he's putting pressure on you getting that ball he's pushing

he's pushing the pace and those guys are getting out running lanes they're going to get some easy buckets they're going to get the ball in the paint because he's going to push tempo so you're out there celebrating you're doing this hey Joe you're doing this right here you're doing all this right there, they land the ball

up on the other end. You're right. You're right. Yeah, he's definitely had his snake. If he's playing well, they always got a great chance of winning. I don't like if he, you know, the numbers. Sometimes he get two passes. Sometimes he like, nah, bro. Nah.

I need you in scoring mode. I think he's kind of learned that over the years playing in these playoffs too, Unc. I think he understands he has to assert himself more by getting in the paint, creating havoc, shooting his floater, you know, diamond his bigs. But he has to score in order for them to be effective. Now, I ain't saying he got to score big numbers like 30, 35. No, no, no, no, no, no. When he's playing efficient like this...

Yeah. Yes. He's always going to manage the game and keep them in a great place because he's not a high turnover guy. He's going to always take care of the rock. And in the playoffs, that's what you need. You want a guy who's really going to value the rock, especially in these, you know, these trying, tough situations,

especially coming down the stretch. Yeah. Keep you out of your luggage. Yes, sir. Hey, in order for the Cav. Yeah. Keep you out of your luggage. Yes, sir. Hey, in order for the Cavs, I'm saying if Garland doesn't play, if Garland doesn't play, obviously Mitchell has to do everything he can. Everything has to start with him. Mobley has to contribute.

And the third guy, whoever's going to be, he's just got to go. Whoever needs to talk to him, they got to give him the green light. They let him shoot. Let him shoot at will so he can get some points. The Cavs are needs to talk to him, they got to give him the green light to let him shoot. Let him shoot at will so he can get some points. The Cavs are going to have to adjust their perimeter defense to counter the Pacers'

three-point shooting. And you got to get back in transition. Because when you watch the Pacers play, I've been watching the Pacers all season long. It's like a four-by-one team.

They're like four-by-one. Boy, they down and back, down and back, down and back. But see, the thing is, Ocho, you're playing with two bigs, though. When you play, now the bigs, they're going to give you second chance opportunities. They can protect the paint. Every mobile

defensive player of the year. Jared Allen can protect the paint. But the thing is, when you miss it, you push. Now them big guys, they tailing on the back. And now you got nobody to protect the front end of the rim on the transition. They need more from Strews and Merrill.

Merrill, I mean, you know, you got 76 points. That ain't nearly enough. That's not nearly enough. I get Ty Jerome, you know, I get him six man, but 20 shots and Mobley only got 13? Nah. We gotta get Hunter. We gotta get Hunter on the ball. Yeah, we got to get Hunter. We got to get Hunter

on the ball. Yeah, Hunter need to be Hunter need to be 13. I wouldn't might even have to put him in the lineup in the starting lineup. I know they bring him

off the bench because they want that you know, they want they want that pop off the bench because if we put him in the starting lineup where are we going to get

points off the bench from now? Right, right. Absolutely. But hey, man, listen. Hunter, we got to he got to get more touches. Eight shots ain't enough, Uncle Ocho.

We got to find a package for him. For sure. Oh, I agree. I totally agree with you. A sound bite from Hallie after the game today is going viral. Being a point guard is like being a mom. Your job is to take care of everybody. It is.

It is. It is. It is. Yeah. That's the hard part. But, hey, but you know what? Hey, but mom's got to eat too now. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Right. Hey, you know, mom prepared, but don't think mom ain't going to get a plate. Right. Right. Listen, after, you know, after mama feed the kids, that's her time to eat. Yeah. And listen, that's basically, basically, that was basically Harden's approach to the game, the game seven. I'm going to feed everybody else, and at some point,

I'm going to see if I can get myself in rhythm. Right. Yeah, in today's game, if you're at the point guard position, you got to be able to score that thing, distribute it. You got to. You got to. There's no room for you. If you can't score the ball and make plays, it's going to be hard for you.

Because you're a liability out there because they're going to slump off you. There we go. You can't let them play four on five. Yeah. That's really why it's so hard for Ben Simmons to ever get back because everybody knows that he can't do anything but assist and play defense, but it's not nearly enough to offset the lack he gives you on the offensive end. Yeah.

So that's why you can only play him seven, eight minutes a game, Ocho, because on the offensive end, he ain't giving you nothing. He ain't even looking at the basket. Nah, he not looking at the basket. I can remove the basket. I can take the basket down and put him down there. He'll never know it. I think he better suit it at like the fourth position,

maybe even the five position nowadays. Because the guys are so small, and his rebounding ability and pushing the rock and making plays with guys out and around him who can shoot and score is best suited for him. But yeah, I think he lost some confidence, bro, back. Oh, yeah. It's gone.

I told you. Listen. Yeah, because when I watch the game, I'm talking about, yeah, still, yeah, still, you know, he's had times where he's had point-blank layups, and he won't even shoot all night. And see, you said something, Joe. You said play him at the four because he can get the rebound. He can get the offensive rebound instead of putting it back up,

and he looking to pass back out to somebody. No, you shoot it. There's a way to instill that confidence back in young Bull. It is. He got to get himself around the right people. He got to be around the right people. When you told me, I'm thinking Ben Simmons 6'4", 6'5". Remember how surprised I was when you told me how tall he was?

Yeah, he's 6'11". Man, you're supposed to be out there, man, dummying these dudes. Man, 6'4", 6'5". Remember how surprised I was when you told me how tall he was? Yeah, he's 6'11". Man, you're supposed to be out there a man dummy in these, dude. Man, 6'11"? Sometimes, Ocho, it gets between your ears. David Duvall had this happen to him. He developed the yips

and he had to leave the tour. Rick Ankeel, he was a pitcher, but he got to where he couldn't throw across the plate and they had to move him to the outfield. Chuck Knobloch

was a second baseman. Yeah. He got to where he couldn't throw it across the plate, and they had to move him to the outfield. Chuck Knobloch was a second baseman. Yeah. He got to where he couldn't throw it to first base. He had to leave. Oh, man. I mean, sometimes, who was that? There was another golfer that had that problem. Yeah.

And when it goes, it goes. It's gone, though, Joe. No, no, no. Because once it get in here, I don't care. I don't care all the physical traits you want. Right. If you ain't got it here, you's gone though, Joe. Once they get in here, I don't care all the physical traits you want. If you ain't got it here, you can't play. Think about this, right? Joe, think about

this. Think about the mentality and approach to the game. I'm not going to use Kobe and Jordan. I'm going to use players in today's game. Think of Ben Simmons had Anthony Edwards mentality. Think of Ben Simmons had that mentality like John Maron. If Ben Simmons had Anthony Edwards mentality. Think of Ben Simmons had that mentality like John Maran. Just a,

just a, if Ben Simmons, hold on, if Ben Simmons had Anthony Edwards mentality. Yeah. Just think about it. Not personality. I'm just saying his mentality when it comes to playing the game of basketball in general.

No, he'd be the face of the NBA. Cause he going to shoot it. There's not, there's not a shot that Ant can't, don't think he can make. Right. Right.

But the problem with Ben, and I've said this, it's hard for me to see a scenario, Joe, where he's put time in the lab because I watch a guy like Austin Reeves, and I watch a guy go undrafted and average five points, and now he's averaging 20 points in four years. I watch a guy, and Ben Simmons has been rookie of the year and hasn't got any better. So that tells something it's not transparent.

It's hard, Ocho, for you to do something for a period of time and not get incrementally better. I'm not going to say that all of a sudden you start out like this and then all of a sudden you're an all-star or you're an all-NBA player or you're an MVP. But I got to see some improvement. Tell me the improvement that you saw from Ben. If you go back and look, his numbers have come down.

He came down from his rookie year to when he won rookie of the year to the other years. So something is amiss. And I don't know what it is, but I'm telling you, I can teach you to do anything if you're not afraid of doing said thing. You see, I can teach you to do anything if you're not afraid of doing said thing. You see, I can teach you how to swim if you're not afraid of the water. See, Joe, if you're afraid of the water, I can never teach you how to swim because you're going to fight it. Right.

See, Ben Simmons, it's not that he can't shoot. He's afraid to shoot. Right. So now how do I instill, bro, it's okay. Because the first time he air balls and lay on the road, what are they going to do, Ocho? What are they going to do, Joe? Air ball. Air ball. Now he's okay. Because the first time he air balls and lay on the road, what are they going to do, Ocho? Boo. What are they going to do, Joe? Air ball. Air ball.

Now he's done. He goes to the free throw line. If I foul him, he goes to the free throw line and he air balls one. What are they going to do? They're going to air ball. Now he's done. Yeah. So, see?

He's afraid. Ocho, some people afraid of handling rejection. Some people, okay, you boo, so what? Watch this one. Yeah. He can't do that. That's all mentality right there, too. Not really caring about your surroundings,

being able to play in chaotic atmospheres. Like, I enjoy that. Joe, I'm not sure how you feel about being in chaotic atmospheres. I prefer, I'm just saying, when I play football, I prefer being away i like going to the black hole huh i like going to the steelers i like going to the ravens i like the fans talking and chirping and talking trash and calling me ocho stinko i like that yeah for some reason that give me like yeah i like so just just the thought of you even explaining how ben simmons

is reacting because of a fan. What? I'm playing into that. I need you talking that trash. Joe, you remember that game? They lost to Game 7. They lost to Atlanta. Yeah. And they had the trash can going downstream.

Yeah. They had the trash can on fire, and they had a picture of Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons' face was in it. Yeah. And you know what? Go ahead, Joe. Because I've been in the lab with Ben, you know, working out with him. I've worked out with him before. And it's a mental block, man.

That man, he can shoot the mid-range. He can shoot the three. But I watch him in open runs when they have them runs and they be showing it. Oh, Joe, he coming down. He's shooting threes. He coming down, he pull up with the middie. He's doing all of that. I seen things.

Yeah. So that's why it's hard for us as fans when we watch him play. Yeah. We see this in the summer. We see you working on it. We see you doing that. And it's just rhythm and timing. And then when the NBA starts, it's like, hold on, man.

Who is this dude? Yeah. You know what I mean? Do you know how bad I wanted him to be able to help the Clippers? I felt he could have got the Clippers over the top if he just would be aggressive, you know what I mean? Drive to the hole. But it's like he don't want to get fouled. He don't want to

score for some reason. And I think he got the package. I think he can do it. I think it is a mental block whether he say or not but that's kind of what it seems like when you as from a fan perspective when we watch it we've all been in class with the kid that knows the answer but sometimes he has a he has a little speech impediment or he has you know he he he he might start fumble getting it out and he know the kids gonna laugh at him so he just sit there and won't say anything right right we've seen it that's ben bro you're the number one overall pick the number one overall pick in the entire nba draft yeah

yeah kareem was number one magic was number one leBron was number one. Do we know some of the greats? Ben Shaq was number one overall. Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Elijah Wan. Got to be a special talent. He's a special talent. So clearly you got the ability. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

But it doesn't matter. Yeah. It's all right here. Let him come hang out. Let him come hang down here with me for all season. It's hard, Ocho. You probably should have got him his first or second year. At 10, 11 years in, ain't nothing going on now, Ocho.

It's been 10 years already? Yeah. Yeah. God damn. Man, hey, time, hey. Time is only constant. It's moving. It moves whether you do or not.

Hello. It's not waiting on anyone. Right. So, it's, I don't know. In a loss today, Spider made some history. The most consecutive game was with 30 or more points. Donovan Mitchell,

eight, 2020 to 2025. Michael Jordan had seven, 97 through 98. He also had seven between 91 and 93. Michael Jordan had six from 89 to 90. Kobe had six.

Wilt had six. Wilt has six. Alex English had five. I mean, Spada can put the ball in the basket now. I mean, he can score that. Hey,

anything. And once he get cooking, he can shoot the three. He can get to the rim. He got a middie. I mean, he'll three-level score. If I finally we go to the free throw line got the whole package we watched him have excuse me drop 57 in the bubble everybody thought then him and uh uh murray go back to back murray have 50 he have 50 and everybody said oh man that's just a bubble we see people doing strange things in the bubble

yeah it's about to say y'all really take that? Okay, let me show you. Man, listen. No, that's really me. I've been there. Hey, okay, Ocho. I was with him as rookie year in Utah when they drafted him. I was out here there playing, and I didn't see this. I'm not going to tell you no lie.

I did not see this. But in talking to our assistant coaches at the time, because they were going through summer league with me, playing summer league, they was like, we got a special talent. We got one. I had never seen him play in college, so in the pros, I didn't really know what he could do. And, man, he was special, bro.

From the moment he got his opportunity, Quinn put him in the starting lineup. He took full advantage of it, and the man has been going ever since. I look for him to really put his stamp on this series knowing and understanding if he ain't got Garland in this series against the Pacers, he's going to have

to step up and be special throughout the rest of these games, Ocho. You know what I mean? He's going to have to go vintage. We're going to need some 45s, maybe even a 15-yard in there. That's what it's going to have to go vintage. We're going to need some 45s, maybe even a 50-yard win. Like,

that's what it's going to take in order for them to win. Yeah, he could do it too now. He could put the whole team on his back. Yeah. He could put the whole team

on his back. I done seen him do it a few times. Yeah. I think he got more scores now than what he had than when he was in Utah. Look, Gobert was the guy that just rebounded the ball.

Hey, rebound the ball and hand it to Donovan. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what Jared Allen is basically that. You're not running play for Jared Allen. He's going to hit a lob threat. He'll get it back. He'll get an offensive rebound and stuff it back. But I'm not running no set for it.

Yeah. Right. Just like you didn't run sets for Rudy Gobert. So I think for me, if Evan Mobley and Hunter are a little bit more aggressive and get more – I mean, Hunter, eight shots? Mobley. Mobley and Hunter had one fewer shot than Ty Jerome. Yeah.

We can't, man. We got to get Hunter to rock, man. Yes, you got to. So what do you think? I mean, Donovan Mitchell, I mean, that's pretty impressive. Because Michael Jordan's on here three times. Kobe's on here. I mean, we don't even say nothing about Will, because Will got a record they're going to ever, ever

be broken. Yeah. Will got like 500-point game. So he got a record they're going to never be broken. You know, Donovan don't get a lot of credit neither, man, but he's been Mr. Consistent throughout his whole career. You know what I mean? He's in the playoffs.

He is ranked number nine in playoff points history. For a game, yeah. Man, come on. Like I say, we're going to need him to step up and put up some big numbers throughout this series if they looking forward to advancing because what is the injury that Garland has? I don't even know the injury.

It's his toe, isn't it? I don't see. Well, it's them lower extremities. You know, they're going to linger, Ojo. I had turf toe before. I know what that's like. Hey, I got, listen, you know about my remedy, huh? For any lower extremities, I got the remedy for them. know they gonna linger oh joe i had turf toe before i know what that's like hey i got listen hey you know about my remedy huh for any any lower extremities i got the remedy for them i listen

garland if you see this i guess you don't want to hear about it joe hey i got it i got something i have him right i have i have him back for game two what you got let me hear let me let me hear what you got you show yeah so for for me any lower extremity any injuries i might have had during the season sprain ankle high ankle sprain low ankle sprain grade three grade two it doesn't matter grade one for that matter so i would be urine i would get urine uh from if i didn't have enough for me i get enough from my teammates as well with great understanding that once you warm the urine up right and put enough where you can put your foot in it and it comes above the ankle

it evaporates the toxins listen to me now stay with me now the toxins in the urine takes all the swelling out as if you never even sprained the ankle now there's a study been done and matter of fact it was just on Twitter like two days ago he's doing the study and joke yeah i'm telling you i'm people people people in the

chat can attest to this that just saw the guy explain it on what the urine can do for the body and and helping it heal at a magnificent rate that science really doesn't teach you it's a home reading my grandma taught me when i was younger. That's why I played 13, 14 years. It was no injury, Joe. Listen, I did the NFL.

I went to Canada. I did one year in Canada and Canada. I played in Mexico. I done played all around the world. So, and I'm in still to this day. I've never been hurt. I mean,

I didn't have my heart broken before. That's about it. Why'd you pee on that hey i know my joe most people will look at it and they'll be like oh nah i ain't doing that but it works now i'm one of them people but it works it worked for me and it can work for you i mean so you know you still do it to this day to keep you going but i don't I don't need to do it now because I'm not really doing anything.

I play soccer. I play soccer, you know, every so often with my Jamaican team in Fort Lauderdale. But outside of that, I mean,

I'm good. I'm a, hey Joe, I'm like, hey coach, I'm out this one. Might be out two weeks. Listen,

hey Joe, I could have saved Unk. I could have saved Unk. He, Unk had all these injuries. You remember, remember the, remember the board game operation? Yeah. Yeah have saved, I could have saved. He had all these injuries. You remember, remember the board game operation? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's all. He, something was always hurt. So I can say to them, if I was, if I was on teammate,

I had the high ankle. Well, back then they didn't, they didn't call it high ankle sprain. They just, it was just an ankle sprain. Right. Right.

So, Hey, I just shot it up and played. Didn't realize I was doing more damage. Damn, yeah. But, you know, coming in at a low-round draft pick, Ocho, I got to get it. Oh, you got to. You know what I mean? I got to get it. If I was a first-rounder, I'd have sucked my ass down.

Because I know I'm going to be there. A seventh-round draft pick? Nah, bro. I got to get on out there. Absolutely. I got to be there. A seventh-round draft pick? Nah, bro. I got to get on out there. Absolutely. I got to get it. So, Donovan Mitchell, most consecutive game won with 30 points or more in NBA history. He now has surpassed Michael Jordan with eight.

That's crazy. That's a lot. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain.

This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Banik-Smith. Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Businessweek editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick.

Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen.

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front row seat to where media, marketing, technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. Did you make a mistake in sending arms to Tehran, sir? No. It became known as the Iran-Contra affair. And I'm not taking any more questions in just a second. I'm going to ask...

I'm Leon Nafok, co-creator of Slow Burn. In my podcast, Fiasco, Iran-Contra, you'll hear all the unbelievable details of a scandal that captivated the nation nearly 40 years ago, but which few of us still remember today. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do. To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. An interview has surfaced of Ant-Man saying he wants to face the Warriors in the playoffs. And I want to go get the Warriors. Wherever they at, I want to get them. Reporter, why the Warriors?

And because Draymond talks so much trash, and that's pretty much the only reason. I like it. See, man, that's what I'm talking about, man. We need more of that. Everybody likes to just play the game of basketball, but when you bring that entertainment value like that, that makes you want and hope that the Warriors and the Wolves have a series, it's because of somebody like that that can talk it and they can walk it.

It just makes it that much better. That's why I say I would love for him to be the face of the league. No disrespect to Jason Tatum. Great player. NBA champion. You know, NBA champion. All-star. You know, Olympic team. He has all these accolades. But it just doesn't add up to that aura and it factor that Ant has.

Like, that's, that's, man. Listen. Buddy Raw, man. Hey, hey. For the story, for the story. Okay, Ocho. This one here is going to go down in the books. See, the one team that was at home tonight cheering was the Timberwolves.

They were cheering for the Warriors for a number of reasons. They play the Warriors, they get home court advantage. See, the Warriors come to them. But if the Rockets would have won, they would have had to go to Houston. You see what I'm saying? So, Timberwolves got home court advantage. They know and understand the moment and what it presents. And like

I say, Ant-Man got this hit list. He trying to he got a couple more people he's going to add to this list. He's going to add to it? Hey, when they series start, Joe? Probably Tuesday. So, look, think about this, Arcaocho. That series is going to start Tuesday.

You're just coming out for a seven-game grueling series against the Rockets. Probably going to wear you down a little bit. The Timberwolves have been at home kind of resting. They got their feet up a little bit, but they're going to be ready. They probably going to look a step or two faster than the Warriors on game one. Yeah. Yeah. Now, why did Rudy Gobert go out there and forget how to play basketball?

He might take him completely out of the game. Oh, no. This is going to be WrestleMania. We were just talking to Bianca. We were just talking to Bianca, what, about a week or two ago? Yeah. Oh, man, this is going to Bianca. We're just talking to Bianca about a week or two ago. This is going to be WrestleMania. This must see TV. Rudy Gobert and Draymond

Green. Oh yeah, y'all already know how this thing is going to go down. In the span of 12 months, the Wolves have sent home Kevin Durant, Nikola Jokic, Luka Doncic, and LeBron James. Ant-Man is looking to add Steph Curry to his list. Let me ask you a question.

How many games? Who wins and in how many games? I'm going to start with you. Who wins and how many games? Oh, man, this is a good one. Listen, with Anthony Edwards playing the way he's playing, Rudy Gobert, if he can have another game, maybe not 27 again, but he contributed on both ends of the court,

giving them second-chance points, rebounding defensively. Everyone else contributed as well. I say there's going to be another seven-game series, and I got Ant-Man. I got Ant-Man pulling it off, adding another one to the hit list. What you got, Joe? I don't got no seven-game series. I got the T-Wolves winning this in about five or six games.

Damn. Five, six? Yeah, what's wrong? Yeah. I only said the seven because Steph and Draymond and them boys are used to playing in this type of atmosphere. So I'm saying they're going to stretch it all the way to seven. But if you say five or six, you know better than me because you played. I'd just be in the YMCA.

This is just my opinion, Ocho. I want it to be true be true now allow me the right to be wrong all right right right right but in my assessment i'm thinking of okay seven game series butler didn't look like he didn't look like he don't look like he's moving good even though he played a decent game now he played a good game tonight him and steph look like they kind of hobbled and gimballed a little bit. And going into playing against these T-wolves, they're going to be ready. Man, they hungry. They ready. They sitting and waiting.

It's going to be tough. Because my thing is, who's going to do, who's guarding Drew Randle? Right. That's what I want to know. Because if you go big and you put Kevon Lo That's what I want to know. Because if you go big and you put Kevon Looney in there to deal with,

because now you mess up your spacing. Because if you put Looney in there and you have Draymond to bang with you, you're Randall the load, man. Yeah.

You got to be ready to bang with him. Yeah. It's going to be a tough one, Anki. It's going to be some no's and no's in this series, you know, because Julius Randle. Well, I could definitely see Randle and Draymond getting into it.

You know, it's going to happen. I think one of the weapons for the Warriors, man, they're going to have to try to find a way to get Kaminga back into the fold because they're going to need him in this series coming up, man. It kind of showed today. They kind of needed him early, but I think they're going to need him throughout this series. He's got

youth on his side. He's played in big moments. He knows what he's capable of doing. I think they need his productivity, you know, especially coming up in this series. He hadn't played in a while.

I know they've been throwing him out there here and there, but they got to try to find some consistent minutes for him. I like the T-Wolves also because I don't know when they go to the bench, Nas Reed, who's going to deal with him. Right. Because not only can he shoot this free and stretch the floor, he can also go down and post.

So now, you've got to think about it. That's Moody, that's Kaminga, that's trying to deal with a big, a true big. And that's why I favor the T-Wolves because of them big bodies that they have that they can throw at them. They big bodies can score

and they can play me. And they guards sit down, and they play deep. McDaniels, it was— Alexander Walker. Alexander Walker, Devin Jesus. You know, those are some guys, you know, obviously we're going to win you games throughout a series. So I give the T-Wolves the edge, man. I think it's going to be a fun one to watch.

Gary Payton II didn't play tonight. He was dealing with an illness. He's going to be a fun one to watch. Gary Payton II didn't play tonight. He was dealing with an illness. He's going to get a lot of minutes on Ant-Man. They're going to try to wear Ant-Man down. They'll probably have Kamingo deal with him. They'll have Moody deal with him. They'll have Gary Payton II deal with him. They're going to try to throw difference because I don't think anybody can stop

him. You're going to try to get the ball out of his hand wherever you can. Make somebody else beat you. Lakers did that, and McDaniels had a great series. Nas Reed knocked down some big shots. Obviously, Drew Ramble gave you what he gave you, probably average 22 and 8 for that series. It's going to be a very, very interesting matchup. It's going to be a chance.

I'm going to see how Finch is, what he's going to do with Steph, how he's going to defend Steph. Because Buddy Hill's like, I'm going to make y'all pay. Y'all make it seem like I can't shoot the three. Y'all know I can shoot the three. But, man, listen, if you don't scratch in game six, how do we expect for you to come out and give us third something in game seven? Come on, man. Yeah.

We ain't nobody. Like, this man is dope. He out of. Hey, when you hit that shot, that, at the end of the half? Yeah. I said, oh, man. Yeah. I said, oh, man.

Hey, it's good. It's good. You living right, huh? You living? Yeah, yeah. I said, oh, man. Oh, man. Hey, for a guy, for a guy who could make a shot at game six to hit that, like, yeah, that's a confidence builder.

Hey, listen. Now you know. Because he had 23 in the first half. He didn't give you none in the third quarter. I don't think he scored any in the third. Did he score in the third quarter? I think he got his 11 in the fourth. He said he done it. He said,

I got y'all this league. I spotted y'all. So, okay, Steph and Jimmy, y'all carry us home from here. I don't know how much the NBA is a copycat league. As you watch a series and knowing you're playing the following team coming up next, like the NFL is, you see something work on another team, and then you just copy that and do the same thing. Well, you know how to slow Steph down, maybe not stop him,

but contain him and just do the same thing the Rockets are doing defensively. The Wolves are capable of doing that. Yeah. They're capable of doing the same thing. I think the Rockets, the Wolves might have better defenders, individual defenders. Right. Jay McDaniels is a better individual defender than anybody that… Wait, individual defender.

I don't think there's really nobody off the dribble that can stay with Steph regardless, regardless of who it is. Ain't nobody really dealing with nobody one-on-one, Ojo. He's the best of the best. Okay, okay. Right, right. You just, you try to make it as tough as possible. So if he gives you 20, if he averages 27, you try to hold him to 23. Right.

Or if he gets his 27, you try to make it as inefficient as possible. Possible, right. But you go out there and say, oh, yeah. Oh, you average 27, you ain't get but 12 today. Right. Okay, good luck with that. Yeah. Nah.

But I think T-Wolves got the defenders to, you know, wear them down throughout a series. You know, that long-ranging guys who are going to be pesty, pick them up, go for it. You know, just don't give them nothing easy. Man, when I be watching the game, they take Steph out of the game, they be playing four on four out there. That man be standing in the half court.

His man don't even be looking at the ball. But I got the T-Wolves and may the young fella's legacy continue. I think he's going to be special in this series. I think he's going to be special

in this series. I do too. Ant is a big game performer. I think the best thing that happened to Ant was going to the Olympics and being around KD, being around LeBron, being around Steph Curry. Like, okay.

I'm where I belong. Yep. A monster grace. okay, I'm where I belong. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. A monster of grace. Yes. And so how they approach it, how they get themselves prepared, how they go about their business. Now, look, he's not going to, that's not what he is.

He's not going to be as buttoned up as LeBron and Steph, but you just got to accept it for who he is. That's who he is. Yeah. And that was, and Steph, but you just got accepted for who he is. That's who he is. Yeah. And you heard what you just said? Yes. He doesn't have to be as buttoned up, and he refused to be that.

He's authentic to himself, which is why he's so relatable to everyone else, why everybody's going to be a fan. And you'd have some people that have to bring up stuff that has nothing to do with on the field, I mean on the field, on the court, Anthony Edwards. But, man, I love and appreciate anybody that remains true to themselves and who they are without conforming to how they think you should be as an NBA player. Yeah.

But no, I don't just necessarily think it's an NBA player because every player is not held to the same standard as a LeBron and a Steph Curry. Everybody wasn't held to the standard like Jordan. Everybody wasn't held to the standard like bird. Imagine right. Right. Kobe. There's difference. But when they say,

okay, when they talk about the NBA and they have these pictures up there, your face is front and center. When they, when, when the NBA marketing campaign, they want you front and center it's just it's different now you got to realize these guys like those old guys they got married they

you know they now these guys on show they playing video games jordan they playing no video game the old guy was playing on their video game man these guys now they they playing card and they playing fort Fortnite against somebody else. Somebody on a whole different team. Hey, man, what's your name? What's your tag? Come on, check this out. It's a different time now, and I think we have to change our way of thinking of what

the face of the NBA is. Because the old faces, those guys aren't like that anymore. No, no. Look, whether he likes it or not, you know, when you chosen, you chosen, bro. And then you can do about it.

And the route that he's taking, whether he likes it or not, he complete this mission right here. Yeah. It's going to happen whether he likes it or not. And that just comes with the game. It's part of it, man. You know what I mean?

Yeah, look, when you chosen, Joe, you can't run from that. You remember Jonah? God told him, he's like, nah, nah, let somebody else. So what he gonna do? He gonna get in the boat and go. Now where else he come here? Now when he spit his ass back up on the shore, what'd he do? He went and did what Jesus asked him to do, didn't he?

Yeah. You see, when you chosen, when that show calling, you can't run from it. Hey, listen, you might not answer the phone. It's your calling. You might not answer the phone. Don't worry about it. He'll take care of the rest. Yeah.

So you can't run from that. I understand because he's like, man, look, I want to go. I want to be free. I want to do what I want to do without y'all looking over my shoulder and cameras everywhere I go because I might come out of a little hole in the wall. And, you know, basically the NBA ain't supposed to be in the hole in the wall. You know what I'm saying? Joe, you know what I'm saying, Joe?

Hey, I understand. But when the universe pick you, baby, they pick you. Yeah. You got to be serious. Is Ant-Man the best big game player in the NBA currently? Best big game player in the game currently. Man, we've had some guys play some big games. Yeah, I think I probably give him the nod.

I think because he just accepts it, man. He's a little different than some of the other superstars that we have in the league. And I think that's why people gravitate to the rawness of who he is and how he speaks his mind and how he carries himself. And how he talks trash throughout the games. Oh, yeah, I'm looking up to anybody. I'm looking to play the Warriors. It don't matter who you are. Hold on. Y'all seen what Obama said?

He said, look at this guy right here. He can play a little bit. He said, you better stand down. I'm the truth. Yeah, dude, stop playing with me. So we love that. We gravitate toward it, and we all want to see him do good, man, because he has the talent.

And night in and night out, bro, he gives us something spectacular. You know what I mean? Because not only can he make the three, he can play above the rim. He put your ass on the post and now you go up there if you want to. I'm telling you, you're going to be on his card. You're going to be on his card.

I think the underrated thing, I think his underrated attribute is his defense. Oh, yeah. I'm saying on any level, whether it's blocking shots, whether it's locking down, playing his one-on-one defense, fighting over picks. Like, he showed me some of that Lakers series,

and I was like, yeah, our young fella taking the next step. And that's what it is, playing on both ends, being a two-way superstar. You know what I mean? Not just a two-way player, but he's a two-way superstar because he impacts the game on both ends of the floor. Just like in that last closeout game against the Lakers, he didn't play great offensively, but defensively, he was disruptive. He made plays offensively, and he did enough for them to win.

Like, it didn't take for him to, you know, wow you on the stat sheet. Yeah, I think that's the best part when you can tell about a player, when you can find other ways to impact the game, even when you're not doing what you're known for which is scoring can i can i impact the game if i if i don't have 10 catches right how's my blocking how's my decoy am i getting out of there make everybody think i'm i'm about to okay i'm about to get this wrong when i know i'm just clearing for somebody else to run the shallow or to run that deep over,

but I need to make sure I get that safety up out of there and pull that linebacker. Is that really? So you got to find other ways to impact the game because sometimes guys only see their value

if I'm catching passes, if I'm scoring points. No, you got to find value in other things also, and that's when you become the greatness. Chad is evenly split on this series. 51% are taking the Warriors. 49% taking the T-Wars.

Hmm. Well, somebody going to be wrong. Yeah. Either the 51 or the 49. The volume. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways.

Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael Kasson, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on good company. The podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Su, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the fall of 1986, Ronald Reagan found himself at the center of a massive scandal that looked like it might bring down his presidency. It became known as the Iran-Contra Affair. The things that happened were so bizarre and insane, I can't begin to tell you. Please do.

To hear the whole story, listen to Fiasco, Iran Contra on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.