No Broke Months For Salespeople - Helping Agents by Investing in Real Estate

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

Tom Cafarella is the owner and founder of Agent Investor. He's on a mission to help agents get off the roller coaster of sales by investing in Real Estate.Tom's an agent whose income has always been up and down until he started investing. Since then, He has fixed and flipped over 1,000 homes, owns over 300 rental units, and has a 350-person real estate brokerage, all because he has invested in real estate.In this interview, Tom will share how you, as an agent, can start investing in real estate.--To find out more about Dan Rochon and the CPI Community, you can check this link:www.NoBrokeMonths.com --Stop 🛑 wasting your time ⏳ or spending too much money 💸not getting the results you want in sales; I would love you to join me for the upcoming 5-Day Listing Challenge.You will learn how to find YOUR Way to having closings every month.www.get3morelistings.com--Get your free copy of the Real Estate Evolution here:bit.ly/RealEstateEvolution_GetYourBookThis book shows you the step by step on how to:Step 1: Believe in your unknown potentialStep 2: Deconstruct persuasion techniquesStep 3: Find a business and get hired consistentlyStep 4: Be proactive in the relationship with your clients.Step 5: Learn and implement the exact steps to hire, train, lead, and train virtual assistants so that they can build, support, and guide a winning team to scale.And if you’d like to have a consistent and predictable income, like this page, and don’t forget to join the Facebook group to network with the top agents:https://www.facebook.com/groups/thecpicommunity/ To find out more about Dan Rochon and the CPI Community, you can check these links:Website: No Broke MonthsPodcast: No Broke Months for Salespeople PodcastInstagram: @donrochonxFacebook: Dan RochonLinkedIn: Dan Rochon

if you're considering where you want to be 10 years into the future, try to find a few people that are at where you want to be, ask them what their life is like, and then figure out what type of business you want to own. Welcome to the No Broke Months for Real Estate Agents podcast. Working as a real estate agent can be incredibly rewarding and fulfilling, but it can also be frustrating if you aren't making the money you deserve. So if you're ready to end the stressful cycle of working hard for

no results, then get started with a proven step-by-step system so that every month is no broke months. Tom Caffarella is the owner and founder of Agent Investor. He's on a mission to help agents get off the roller coaster of sales by investing in real estate. Tom's an agent whose income has always been up and down until he started investing. Since then, he has fixed and flipped over 1,000 homes, owns over 300 rental units, and has a 350-person real estate brokerageage all because he has invested in real estate in this interview tom will share how you as an agent can start investing in real estate my name is dan roshan i'm the host of the no broke months podcast which is a show for real estate

agents to help you have no broke months thanks Thanks for joining me. Enjoy the show. Hello, Consistent Predictable Income Community. I'm joined with Tom Caffarella and he and I are going to talk to real estate agents on how you can help agents by investing in real estate. Tom, welcome. Thank you for having me today. Man, those are some impressive numbers, welcome. Thank you for having me today. And those are some impressive numbers, dude. I'm trying. I mean, I've been busting my butt for, you know, 15 years. You know, I'm I'm I'm a workaholic and I like to think I'm doing things smart, too. So combination of those two things, you know, like everybody else. Yeah, I don't know if I'm smart or just too damn stubborn to quit.

So I don't know which one of smart or just too damn stubborn to quit. So I don't know which one it is. If I had to pick one, stubborn to quit is much more important. I had a lot of success, particularly with working with agent investors and investing in real estate and helping agents to be investors. So what got you started? Let's go back to 2005. You may have started even before then, but the early days, what got you interested in real estate? So I grew up poor and everybody told me, get a good job, go to school, all the stuff everybody kind of hears and knows about. And I was pre-med in college because doctors make a lot of money and i was driving around as a pizza delivery boy i put in the cassette tape in my you know 2000 kia sofia uh rich dad poor dad hold on i think that i think

the moral of the story of this is that thomas was in the cassette tapes that's that's like my aha already keep on man i love you yeah it wasn't an eight track we're good listen i just turned 40 in july so it's not feeling too good right now but as long as it's't an eight track. We're good. Listen, I just turned 40 in July, so it's not feeling too good right now. But as long as it's not an eight track, we're all right. Yeah. So so you don't know what an eight track is for the audience. Sorry, guys. I know there are probably some people who don't. But yeah, so I'm listening to that that thing. And by the time I'm done, no exaggeration. I was like, you know, nine tenths out of the way to go into med school, did everything I needed to do to get in, took my exam. And I'm like, hey, I want to own a business. I want to own real estate.

So I didn't have any contacts that were in real estate. I didn't do anything and I got a job and I became a CPA and I hated it. And I hated it even more, like knowing that the rich dad, poor dad stuff. So I finally decided to get my real estate license because I'm like, well, maybe that's my first step. So I get my real estate license. I start working with friends and family, start doing okay. You know, helping people here and there. And one day I come in as a CPA and I've been doing a decent amount of real estate and doing a decent amount of real estate on the

job. So I come into work in 2007 and all of a sudden they say, hey, why don't you just do real estate? And I got laid off and I said to to myself, like, the first thought I had, you know, driving home in my car was like, I gotta get get another job. No, that wasn't your first thought, Tom, let's be real. Well, you know, to be honest with you, one of my first thoughts is like, why? Why was I, you know, not hiding being an agent better? You know, but like, that was my first thought. I'm like, God damn, how can you be so stupid? But so I'm driving home and thinking I got to get another job. Next day I wake up and I go, I'm 25 years old. I'm living in my parents' basement. If I'm

going to do this, I need to do it now. So always wanted to be an investor, but I, the only thing I knew how to make money at was to be an agent. So I did what most people do. I started growing my database. I started growing my network, going to networking events, start selling a few more houses. But no matter what I did, and I think I'm decently personable and likable, and I think I know what I'm talking about, but no matter what I did, I was on that real estate rollercoaster where I'd have like two really good months and I'd be like, yeah, like I'm going to crush it. I'm going to sell a hundred houses this year. And then I would go like three months without doing a deal. And my income was like up and down and up and down. And I was working hard, but I still wasn't getting,

you know, traction. And then I went on a listing appointment for two family in the greater Boston area. And the seller said to me, I don't want to list my house. I just want to sell it to an investor. And after kind of like pressing her to list the property for a while, because I thought that's the only way I can make money, it finally hit me like this could be my first investment deal. And I wholesaled that deal because I didn't have any money and made $115,000. Oh my God. Thank God you didn't list it, right? It's unbelievable because I really, really wanted to list that house. But finally, I took some advice from a mentor and wholesale the deal. And she was very happy.

I was very happy. But what it did for me more than anything is two things. First, it gave me confidence to know I could be an investor. And the second thing it did was when you get $115,000 in your bank accounting, I was 27 years old and I probably had $3,000 before that, it gave me leeway to say, okay, instead of always hunting and hunting and hunting and hoping and whatever, I could say, let me plan out how I actually work a little bit better and try to focus a little bit more on investing. And through that, I started generating more investment deals

because I was specifically looking for them. My agent business grew because I was out hunting for sellers. And in the 10 year span after that, my company fixed and flipped over 1200 houses. We built the brokerage on basically teaching these agent investor principles like, hey, if you're on a listing appointment and the seller's telling you, I don't want to list my house and it needs a ton of work, you can actually make money on a deal like that. And then we've accumulated a bunch of rentals, built up the apartment building, some apartment buildings. And, you know, my number one focus, though, like I have on my shirt is like preaching this message that, hey, you're an agent. That's a great profession. Do it, but also invest along the way. Yeah. And if you're listening to this, this shirt says agent investor, if you're not able to watch the video. And you have a Facebook group, AgentInvestor Facebook group, right? Yeah.

And it's free to join. We do training every single week. People can access it by going to www.agentinvestor.com. As of this recording, we've got 10,000 agents in the group and we're growing by about 1,000 agents per month. And that's really like if you're talking about like the focus of my focus, it's like to get as many people in that group as possible, because that's a platform for me to be able to teach and train and provide my tools and my resources. And I just chose Facebook because I like Facebook. I'm on Facebook. I know some of the younger kids on here probably think I'm an old man because I'm on Facebook, but that's my daughter. My daughter makes fun of me because I have Facebook, right? Same. So I've got a 10 year old daughter and she's like, Hey,

only old people are on Facebook, but you know what? I guess I'm old now. I tell her only wise people, young lady, only wise people. Exactly. So, but yeah, so that's the platform that I've kind of chosen, but we also have a podcast and we also, we do in-person trainings and stuff like that, but it's all based, not just like helping agents invest, but showing them things that, Hey, you don't need to spend 10 hours a week doing this. Like you're probably already coming across opportunities and you're passing on them because you just don't know what to do. Hey there, it's me, Dan.

Excuse me for interrupting my own show. I want to tell you about a coaching client who I have called John. And John was recently working with some buyers who they ended up writing 12 offers on 12 different homes, none of which got accepted. And that could just be frustrating. But even worse than that, those buyers ended up becoming renters because they rented a home. And guess what? They went directly to the rental. They didn't even use John for his services when they rented. If I just described an experience that maybe you can relate to, and if you're struggling right now because interest rates have risen so high and the inventory is so low right now, it's just so tough to work with buyers. And if you want to learn

instead of work with buyers, how could you take three more listings right now? I invite for you to an upcoming class that I'm hosting. It's online. It's free. You can join me at www.get3morelistings.com. That's get3morelistings.com. And I will show you the exact techniques and tactics that my students are using to be able to get three more listings every single month. So that's www.get3morelistings.com. And you can save yourself a seat. It's free. It's online. And I look forward to helping you get more listings. so you have um done a ton of deals you've done a ton of um uh you know the flips and

and real estate transactions how do you find like like let's start on like the beginning like where's the you know i understand that there's probably already you know a lot of agents may just be missing the opportunity but before you even get there to the appointment, where are you finding your business from? Yeah. So there's where I'm finding my business from now and how I would recommend somebody finding their business from in the beginning. Sure. How I find my business now is primarily through paid marketing. So we do a lot of mailers, a lot of pay-per-click. I'm on TV or we're on Facebook, and we do have a large agent network. And we're always out there saying, hey, if you ever come across an opportunity like this,

we'll split the deal with you 50-50, stuff like that. But for people that are kind of like thinking that they want to do this, the first easiest area is just the appointments are already going on. And the second thing is your SOI, your sphere of influence, and actually letting them know that you're an investor. And a lot of people that are investors, that are agents, don't let their SOI know that they're an investor. And a lot of people, I get a lot of deals myself. And what happens a lot of times is my team will go on the appointment.

They'll also have an appointment with their friend who's a real estate agent and they compare both options. And then if they want to go like a cash route, they go with me because their friend isn't saying, hey, by the way, this may or may not be for you. But we also have an option if you just want to sell in 30 days and not clean your house out and leave your stuff behind that you can sell direct. you. But we also have an option if you just want to sell in 30 days and not clean your house out and leave your stuff behind that you can sell direct. So that would be like if I'm, you know, kind of like no marketing budget and just starting to source deals, like just like you're letting

your SOI know that you can help people buy and sell real estate, you also buy real estate yourself. So originally, it's just like putting the word out there. And one of the things that, that I learned early on in my career, and I don't, I haven't done nearly as many investments as you have, but I have implemented this, you know, at a small, much smaller scale. And one of the things that, um, that I've always trained myself on is doing is when I go on a listing appointment, the first thing I'm asking is, is this a home for me or is this an investment for me? In fact, my home, this home that I'm in right now doing this podcast from this, this, this conversation from, I got this from a listing appointment. I went, I took the listing. It was the crappiest. I mean, I'm talking, it was like

the Adams family home and, but it was in a multimillion dollar neighborhood. And I left the listing appointment. I'm like, I have no idea how I'm going to sell this thing. And then I started thinking, I was like, wait a second. And, you know, bought this home nine years ago from a listing appointment. You know, so that's the way from from agents. I recommend that you always think that first. Like, is this my next investment? Well, the other thing, one more thing to add in too along those lines, it's not just your sphere. It's also the agents that you know too. Because a lot of people are in these big offices where there's 200 agents and they all do a day.

They might do a sales meeting. Everyone says, hey, what do you have coming soon? And we had this happening at one of our sales meetings just like two months ago where my team leader was there. One of my agents stood up. He said, hey, I have this six family in this city. And my team leader is like, oh, really? That sounds like a great deal. Can I look at it? And he bought it.

And I'm going to screw up the numbers, but I think he cash flows 2,500 a month or something like that on the property. And at 6 Unix, it was a big, big, big thing, but it's not even just your SOI. Consider the agents that you know your SOI too, because a lot of agents don't even want to deal with these types of properties either. Yeah. Let me ask you, Tom. So let's go back into where you're at today. So today you're doing a lot of marketing. And so when you're looking at the different things that you're marketing on, do you see one that's getting a better return? Like for example, television or radio versus Facebook versus pay-per-click. Do you see one that you're finding a better return on than

others? Yeah, it's funny because they all have different personalities to them in terms of pros and cons. They all have pros and cons. What I like, for example, about mailing is when I mail a house, if somebody calls me from that mailer, I know that's the house I wanted to buy because I specifically targeted that house. Now, when I go on TV, I could get a call from a property that's three hours away from a mobile home, from a commercial building, from a property that's listed, whatever. But then the pro of TV is like people think you're legit. I don't care how many mailers you send. If they see you on TV, they're like, oh, they're reputable. They're legit. I don't care how many mailers you send. If they see you on TV, they're like, oh, they're reputable. They're real. Facebook, as an example, is definitely

the lowest cost per lead, but it's also the lowest intent. Nobody goes on Facebook to transact in real estate, but it's easy to get opt-ins just like buyer leads on Facebook. So they're cheap, but you need to churn through a lot of them. You probably get the biggest ROI on Facebook, but you may have to make like 50 times more calls than say like a TV lead. And Google pay-per-click is great. It's expensive. And when people turn on their computer and they literally search, sell my house fast, you know that person wants to sell their house fast as they specifically said it. But again, it's not targeted. So you could get a lead from three

hours away. I mean, we get lead shoot like in different States sometimes from pay-per-click and it's like, how the heck did they even find me from pay-per-click? But that type of stuff happens. So they all have pros and cons. And this is all like if you're willing to spend money. And there's a lot of things you can do that don't require you to spend money, whether you're calling or door knocking or texting or networking or contacting your SOI. So what I do today is paid. The reason it's paid, the reason I like it is because it doesn't take any of my time. But I had to work up to that point. Like I didn't have a marketing budget on day one. So there were summers where I remember it was 90 degrees out every day and I was going up,

knocking on the door, being like, hey, would you ever consider selling your house? And I used to always get business from it. Not every day, not every house, but every week I would get a couple of leagues. I'd walk, you know, four hours a day. And I, every, every day I'd get a prospect, somebody who was like, were you not going to distress properties like specifically to pie or were you looking for listings or both? So I look at it as one in the same because it doesn't really matter what I think it's what it is the need for the seller. And we buy beautiful homes from sellers who just want a quick and easy sale. We also go into appointments where we're like, you need to sell cash. And they're like, Nope, I want top dollar. Like, so, you know, it's more, and this is the thing, it's kind of, sometimes people find this hard to believe, but it's more about the seller and what they want than what the house says the house is.

So when I prospect, I put a couple of filters on because like this filter as an example is really important. If somebody doesn't have equity, they can't sell to an investor. Of course. So they can list with an agent, but they can't sell to an investor. So if I'm door knocking, I will say, okay, the half the houses on the street that don't have any equity that maybe bought last year, I'm not going to knock those doors because that's really not going to get me an investment deal. Other than that, you know, I'm pretty open to, you know, any type of deal. Okay. What's the biggest challenge that you're, that you're facing today in business? So it's funny because again, if you asked me this question like six months ago,

I would have given you a different answer. Six months ago, I would have said finding deals is the hardest thing and selling them is really, really easy. And today I would pretty much kind of go the opposite where it's like, man, I can't remember the last time I had to keep tabs on the days on market on my listings. So margins are getting squeezed on the fix and flip side. On the buy and hold side, things are getting better because rankss are still very high. And a lot of people who can't afford now to buy a house because their rates are too high are now becoming renters. So rent is doing great. And those deals are becoming a little bit more affordable.

So the buy and hold side is getting a little easier. The fix and flip side, the margins are getting smaller. Overall, agent perspective with the 350 agents we have, transactions are down because there's this tug of war going on between buyers and sellers. Buyers think the market's crashing. Sellers are like, no, I'm not giving up my three and a half percent rate unless you pay me top dollar. I recently wrote the book, Real Estate Evolution, The 10 Step Guide to CPI, Consistent and Predictable Income for Real Estate Agents. I wrote this book because I have sold real estate since 2007 and developed an immense amount of experience and knowledge. During my journey, I've witnessed hundreds and maybe even thousands of real estate agents fail

in this business, and I firmly believe that that's a shame. In Real Estate Evolution, I will show you the exact steps that I have used as a real estate salesperson to sell 1 to 15 homes every single month for the past 129 consecutive months. It took me more than two decades to learn the sales and persuasion techniques and more than one decade to master the real estate sales techniques to be able to produce the content that makes up this book. And it took me more than a year to write at a pace of three hours every single day. If you're a real estate agent and you're looking for consistent and predictable income in your

business, I invite you to get the book, Real Estate Evolution. And you can get that by visiting www.therealestateevolution.com. And I'll even give it to you for free as long as you pay for the postage. How do you spend your time? Like you have a lot of, you've got the brokerage, you've got the, your own personal book of business, your dad, you've got your investments, you know, that you're managing everything. How do you spend your time? Like where is it equal amongst all those different, you know, areas or how do you spend your time like where is it uh equal amongst all those

different you know areas or how do you leverage no well so there's two things i start with right um the first two things are i need to go to the gym be healthy and spend time with my family so this is how i do that first thing in the morning i go to the gym every single day pretty much seven days a week get it done once it's done i don't have to do it again what time um usually six to seven o'clock okay um so i'm i am not an early riser by nature so i have to it's hard for me to do six to seven believe it or not but that's like you know i wish i could do like four to five or five what time do you have to wake up at 5 30 or even earlier to make that work no 5 30 i mean. I mean, I go somewhere local. So six to seven, um, every day. And then I leave

work at five o'clock and I, and I, and I do not anymore. Well, I shouldn't say this. I'm always on, I'm always responding, but I'm not in the office after five o'clock. I'm not in the office on Saturdays and Sundays. Um, have you always done that? Nope. I used to be in the office seven days a week. I used to come home at like seven o'clock. I remember a time where my wife used to say to me, like, we're making a deal. You have to be home by 630. And I used to be like, I can't be home by 630. And then I'm like, wait a second, what am I doing here? Like I can be home by 630. But that's how serious I was about, you know, in the, in the first seven or eight years, I was probably doing 80 hours a week happily doing it. And then I, you know,

I got married. Okay. Maybe I get, get to go down to 70. And now I'm probably more like part-timer at 70, man. Truthfully, I feel like a part-timer now because I probably do 50. But nothing we do is hard. Nothing in real estate is that hard. I'm not a construction worker. I'm not laying bricks. I'm not doing anything like that.

So in terms of what I actually do, what I'm always working on in my business is the new initiatives. So something that nobody has done before in the company, and then I try to systematize it and then hire it out. And so I have 25 staff members. I have probably like 20 VAs in the Philippines. And so when you ask me that question, every six months, it's going to change a little bit. Right now, specifically, I'm trying to generate leads for investing passively in our apartment deals. So I have a goal to raise $15 million in 2023. That's what I'm focused on. At some point, once I start to generate enough lead flow for people that want to invest in our deals, my next step will probably be to hire a salesperson in that role. But that's what I always am doing, like, because I can't I've made the mistake in my business before of saying, oh, I need this role, maybe a capital raiser.

And then you go out, you interview, you hire somebody, and then you don't know how to do it. So then you can't teach somebody how to do it. And usually if you hire somebody that says they have the skills to do something, it's like, it doesn't, at least for me, it never worked out. So I'm always like the guinea pig in my own business. And if I can generate leads to raise capital and I can do it and I can hit $10 million this year or whatever the number is, I know it's doable. I know how to do it. And the person I hire, I can transfer that knowledge to. And you know what's possible. So nobody can ever come to you and say, hey, boss, that can't be done.

You'd be like, yes, yes, it can. And that's where I used to always struggle. Like going back, you know, probably like four or five years ago, people would say, oh, this can't be done because of this thing. I'd be like, oh, that sounds reasonable. You're right. Because I never did it and I never knew if it could be done. So now if somebody comes to me and they say, hey, I went on 10 face-to-face seller appointments this week and I didn't sign, you know, one investment deal. I go, why? And, and, and if the reason is legitimate and I look into it myself, then fine. But like, if it continues over and over again, then we know we have a problem.

Maybe I have to train somebody, maybe they're the wrong person, maybe they're getting the wrong leads, but I know it's doable. Yeah. So you either, you know, if you're not getting the deals is either you're not saying it often enough, you're not saying to the right people, or you're not saying the right thing. Right. And so in that case, it's like, you either have the opportunity to improve your skillset. Um, if it's not the situation, you know, or, um, or maybe you're not saying it's the right, you know, the right potential seller. So again, because I've done it, I can diagnose it. Yeah. And I think

that's where like, you know, you read, sometimes you read like business books, like you read the four hour work week or something. And like, then you try to implement it in real life. And it doesn't work. It doesn't, a lot of stuff doesn't work like how, you know, maybe a book might say it's possible. Well, that's true yet. we're all unique right so for some it may work yeah right you know i think you have to sort of find your like you and i seem like we're really a lot alike in regards to our approach to leading and our approach to taking action right like so what you're saying makes complete sense to me right and i have business partners who i say they suck at every single freaking thing in the world except for one

which is they know how to find talented people right and i look at them like huh he can't do any of this but he knows how to find talented people right now that doesn't but for me yes i can find talented people right but that's not my sort of super skill no yeah no for me for for sure i've gotten uh i've gotten better at it yeah because i failed at it and keep retrying and keep relearning but it's challenging it's challenging what time so so this is so you're spending your time what i heard you say is really on sort of the lead measures or the lead actions, rather, that will then roll into the rest of the business. What about times when things blow up on you? Right?

Because that happens. And how do you deal with that? So I've done the best that I can to create a leadership team at this point that can deal with most of that. Now, again, there's definitely no such thing as running an operational business passively. So there are times when things blow up and they need to get brought to my attention. I run my business based on, it's called the EOS Entrepreneurial Operating System by a book, Traction by Gino Wickman. And it's a bunch of principles that really

anybody can implement. But one of the principles is like to build your leadership team. And in the past, maybe two to three years, we've hired a COO, a CFO, a lead construction person, a lead sales manager for my investment team, a team leader for my brokerage, so that we can, you know, pour into those people, give them the ability to make the right decisions, you know, when they can, and then have stuff kind of like bubble up to me. And me and my partner, every year, we do a best and worst for the year. And one of our best for 2022 was that we really didn't have too many fires in 2022. And part of it was the leadership team, but then also part of it is the people that are below them just doing a really good job at making sure those people are good. But like, like, you know,

you're alluding to, there are always going to be fires. I'm always available for a fire. I don't want to put out fires that anybody can handle. But if it's something that requires my attention, I am not trying to be a completely passive business owner. I like running a business. I like being involved. But I like being involved on stuff that I can add value to. If I can add value to a situation, then I'm all about it. If somebody's coming to me over like something that, you know, this is going to be the wrong way to phrase this, but I'll just say the truth. If it's like a low level problem, like, Hey, like, you know, the toilet paper, you know, isn't there anymore. Like, what do we do? That's when I say to myself, I'm doing something wrong because this stuff shouldn't come to me. Or maybe you don't have the right person. Yeah.

Last question. If you were starting over today, Tom, today was day one. Yep. What would you do different? Yeah, that's a great question. And I know exactly what I would do different. The first thing I would do different, it's going to be a couple of things, but they're all kind of related to the same thing. The first thing I would do is get really solid about what my vision, what I actually want out of my business 10 years into the future. And most people do not

do this. It's a very challenging thing to be like in 10 years, like, what do I want? Do I want money? Do I want cars? Do I want time off? Do I want to run my business? Get really, really clear about that and then take it down. And this is based on the traction methodology to say like, what type of business do I need to run in order to get there? A lot of times people don't think about it. There's a big difference between running a brokerage business, a team. There's a big difference between flipping houses and owning passive income rentals or apartment units. Those all things, I don't care how good you are at them, they produce different lifestyles. So until you know what you want your lifestyle to be in 10 years, you may like, I own a brokerage, just 350 agents.

It's always like, you know, turn and turn and turn and turn. That's how a brokerage is. And if you know that, and that's not what you want 10 years into the future, but you do a really good job of building that business, you're going to end up with a product in the end. So what I would say is, if you're considering where you want to be 10 years into the future, try to find a few people that are at where you want to be. Ask them what their life is like. How many hours do they work? What's their day-to-day like? If they'll answer how much money they make, and then figure out what vehicle you want to be in what type of business you want to own. That's smart. That's smart. Tom, thank you so much for your time today.

For, for the viewers and the listeners go to www.agentinvestor.com to join Tom's group. Tom, thank you for your time and everybody else. God bless you and to having no broke months. See you guys. Thanks so much for listening to the no broke months podcast today. Until the next show, I invite for you to be grateful, make good choices, help someone have the best day of your life and go find a listing. I'm very excited about the conversation we're about to have. I want to introduce you to Dan Roshan, who is the owner and co-founder of Greetings Virginia.

I am so excited to introduce my next guest, Dan Roshan. He reads, he writes, he does improv. A frequent speaker and often quoted about the real estate market. I'm going to bring on a guy that is a winner. We had some really cool conversations before going live with this show. We have Dan Rochon. So I'm going to encourage for you to think big. I'm going to encourage you to think big and then multiply it by two and then take huge action.

Because whatever you want, you're only five years away from that.