No Broke Months For Salespeople - Silent Strength: The Impact of Body Language in Women's Public Speaking - Janine Driver

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

Janine Driver is a lively body language expert and New York Times bestselling author of YOU SAY MORE THAN YOU THINK who turns the art of reading people into a fun, practical skill, so you can get two steps ahead of human behavior. Janine is a former federal law enforcement officer, and now helps professionals from all walks of life boost their communication and negotiation prowess.   Janine's dynamic workshops and engaging seminars are packed with actionable tips and memorable moments, making her a favorite go-to for mastering non-verbal communication. Tune in for today's episode with Janine Driver here for the No Broke Months Podcast.You can find and contact Janine from the links below:WebsiteInstagramSubstack  To find out more about Dan Rochon and the CPI Community, you can check these links:Website: No Broke MonthsPodcast: No Broke Months for Salespeople PodcastInstagram: @donrochonxFacebook: Dan RochonLinkedIn: Dan Rochon

The difference between feminine and masculine. And so the body language of men is very different sometimes than the body language of women, as is our attitude. In a business environment, if you are asking to have a job that you're being offered in one state to split the state, you wanna come in with masculine energy, not feminine energy, right? You wanna come in with, I have a solution

on why this is the best solution. Welcome to the No Broke Months for Real Estate Agents podcast. Working as a real estate agent can be incredibly rewarding and fulfilling, but it can also be frustrating if you aren't making the money you deserve. So if you're ready to end the stressful cycle of working hard for no results, then get started with a proven step-by-step system so that every month is no broke months. Janine Driver is a lively body language expert and New York Times bestselling author of You

Say More Than You Think who turns the art of reading people into a fun, practical skill so you can get two steps ahead of human behavior. Janine is a former federal law enforcement officer and now helps professionals from all walks of life boost their communication and negotiation prowess. Janine's dynamic workshops and engaging seminars are packed with actionable tips and memorable moments, making her a favorite go-to for mastering non-verbal communication. Tune in for today's episode with Janine Driver here for the No Broke Months podcast. My name is Dan Roshan. I'm the host of the No Broke Months podcast,

which is a show for real estate agents to help you have no broke months. Thanks for joining me. Enjoy the show. I am freaking super stoked to introduce you to Janine Driver today. And we're going to be talking about the impact of body language in public speaking. She is a body language expert, a New York Times bestselling author of You Say More Than You Think, which I actually I haven't read that. I read You Lie to Me or You Can't Lie to Me Rather, which is another one of her books that she's authored. She's just an amazing human being. And she talks about the art of reading people and she does it in a fun way, in a practical, civil way, in a way that you can be able to connect with your clients,

connect with your spouses, connect with your community in a way that's just going to be incredible. Last thing I want to say about Janine, last week I had the privilege of shadowing her when she was on a speaking tour. And she was on stage last week in Atlanta, Georgia with Nick Saban and then Jesse Itzler, who is a co-owner of the Atlanta Hawks, and his wife, Sarah Blakely, who is the founder of Spanx. You may have heard of some of those names. Well, there was four keynote speakers at the event that I went to last week, and guess what? This lady right here was one of those four. Janine, welcome. How are you? Thank you. I think I was the only one that no one knew. You know, the emcee, the CEO said, how many people have heard of Janine Driver? And

not one hand went up. Not one. But I got two standing ovations. That's a lie. I raised my hand. There was at least one hand. Oh, thanks, Stan. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you left off that both Sarah Blakely and Jesse Itzler invited us to dinner to make pizzas at their house, and they sent it to the wrong driver. There's someone else with the last name Driver, so we didn't get to go make pizza at the Billionaire's House. Next time, next time we're in Atlanta together. I'm interested in having a billionaire pizza. I wonder how billionaire pizza tastes.

Me too. So we're going to be talking about the impact of body language and public speaking and not just public speaking, but also just in connecting, you know, connecting with other people. And so, you know, our posture, our body language to not just be more powerful in our communication, but then also to be able to read others and their communication and know when somebody's being authentic, maybe when somebody likes you, maybe when somebody's ready to hire you. And, you know, to be able to be skillful, not just in who we're being, but also on how to understand how other people are being.

And so tell us, Janine, what is it that we need to know about, about body language? Okay. I'm, I'm, thank you, Dan, for that fabulous introduction and for you listening at home or watching at home. Thank you for watching. Hey, who doesn't want no broke months? I'm listening in. I'm not in real estate. I'm listening in the business advice that you share, Dan, with your fabulous guests. And you're so dynamic. I've done a TikTok on your body language. And I say people are always looking for the it factor.

But it's not that. It's something else. And you have it. People have to search it and find it over there. Maybe your team can post it. You're really authentic and dynamic, and it's wonderful to be here. I'm going to give you a real scenario. A friend of mine called this morning. She used to work for a major news outlet, and she has been offered a new job,

a really big new job. And this job is going to be in New York City. And so she called me today to say, okay, I'm going gonna have this Zoom call coming up. I live in Washington, DC. And as much as I love New York City, I'm gonna have to rent a place and be up there and then sublet her place here. And she was sharing with me all the benefits of maybe doing it both between New York and DC.

There's all this value because DC, it's about education and you're right up here where all the decisions are made in D.C. Of course, as many news outlets, both in New York and D.C. So she called me and she said, hey, will you coach me on how I can handle this Zoom call? Because what she wants ultimately is to have both be in New York and D.C. And so I want to start by saying and this this is going to, some women give me a hard time on this, but this woman did not. We'll call her Anne, which is the difference between feminine and masculine. And so the body language of men is very different sometimes than the body language

of women, as is our attitude. And so I want to start with saying this with body language. Men will often go in and some alpha females will go in. I'm not always an alpha female. Sometimes I'm insecure and nervous and, and I have to like check myself. Right. And it is, um, the men will go in. I say masculine energy is a period. Feminine energy is a question mark. So if you think of masculine energy, masculine energy is solving a problem. You can put the solution in a box, right? You can, it's a problem to solve. Feminine energy is a question mark. We are like nature. We're like the wind or a tsunami, right?

If you want to tap into more, I'm very alpha female in many regards. So I'll go for walks around water oftentimes and in nature to tap more into feminine energy. So feminine energy is a question mark in a business environment. If you are asking to have a job that you're being offered in one state to split the state, you want to come in with masculine energy, not feminine energy, right? You want to come in with, I have a solution on why this is the best solution. And when she was talking to me, I was teaching her and she was saying things with like a question mark at the end. Do you see how this might be valuable? Is this something that might work for you? And I'm

like, no, you need to say it more like a man, like a period, like you need to give this embedded command. I'm wondering if you can see the way I see the benefits of having me be both in this state, in this state, period. Changing that tone and pitch is part of this nonverbal. But here's what a lot of people do, Dan, and I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. But men will come in, say 4th of July, say that was coming up hypothetically, right? Then 4th of July, a man might say to the boss, hey boss, I found out my family's coming for 4th of July. I just put the leaf slip in. I'm taking four days off. I haven't taken it off in five years. I'm taking four days off, period. Because we have mirror neurons, you know this in sales, everyone listening to your fabulous podcast knows this, but what many people don't

think of with mirror neurons, I touch my hair and if Dan likes me or wants me to like him, he's going to kind of adjust his ear or touch his ear or follow my breathing rate or do a nice little stretch here. And our hand gestures come down at the same time. He's going to do that. People like people like themselves. We mirror people naturally. A lot of salespeople use mirroring to, to, you know, I like to say, get two steps ahead on human behavior to nudge human behavior. And if you think about, if you think about mirror neurons, if I come in assertive and strong with a period, I'm making my boss feel what? Assertive and strong. So in comes Dan Rochon, and he says, hey, I found out my family's coming Fourth of July.

I put the slip in. I'm taking four days off, period. Confident. What happens to the boss? The boss says, okay, Dan, not a problem. Confident. But many women, and this is where I get some slack from women. I'll take it, ladies. So many of us women come in and we do it with a question mark and a shoulder shrug. A shoulder shrug is

uncertainty. So if you're asking someone something and I say, hey, this was really great. Would you like to get together again sometime? And the person goes, sure. And they shrug. It doesn't mean they don't want to get together with you again. It may mean, hey, I'm about to travel. Hey, it's summer break. I'm going to have my kids all summer. It may, we don't know what the catalyst is, but we can spot the behavior. I know that behavior always, this always means uncertainty. A hand shrug always means uncertainty. Hey, that sounds really good. That person is uncertain about something. It's up to us to ask the question. Maybe I'm wrong here.

It seems to me there's something you're not saying. I call it the MIW formula. So here, before your feedback, Dan, because I'm curious what you think, women will come in with a question mark and a shoulder shrug, and they'll say this. Hey, Dan, I just found out that my family's coming to town 4th of July. I didn't know they were coming. Would it be okay that I take off four days? And now your boss looks at you and says, hey, Janine, not a problem, but this is the deal. I need you to ask me in two weeks when we get closer to the 4th of July. And now women come out and we say, wait a minute, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There's a double standard here because you told that guy he could take it off

and you're telling me I get to come back in two weeks? But what if it's our body language is influencing, as women, we're influencing not only our boss, we're influencing the buyer, we're influencing the seller, we're influencing the lender, we're influencing the audience, whoever our audience is. When you're talking to your kids, are you like, hey, would you clean your room? Would you clean? No. I just want to point out for those listening on the podcast, when Janine is demonstrating this,

her shoulders are shrugged up in the air. So if you can visualize when she's demonstrating this, her shoulders being shrugged in the air as the feminine voice. And I just want to make sure that we get clarity on that for some that may not be viewing this. Thank you, Dan. So what are your thoughts, Dan? You've had many people work for you over the years and have had companies of different sizes, some larger, some smaller. Has this been your experience, the difference between men asking you for something versus females? And maybe it's something you haven't thought about until just now. If you could take a second and share with your audience, how has this maybe impacted you as a, as a leader, uh, in teaching people how to have no broke months? Well, I'm not sure. And I, um,

understand, you know, the difference between feminine energy, masculine energy, etc. I don't necessarily personally like dissect between the two energies. I dissect based off of the based off the action. man is shrugging his shoulders with a uncertainty in the way that he's expressing a request, or a woman does that. If we consider this in sales, for example, man, woman, whatever, and you're making a request of another person and you ask them with uncertainty, you have that upward pitch rather than a downward demand or downward command, then it's going to certainly, it's going to be able to demonstrate uncertainty. Perhaps feminine energy is more likely to do that than masculine energy. And that's something that from my perspective, I'm not as concerned about because

for me, it's about empowering men, women, et cetera, to be able to be powerful in your request, to be able to be powerful in your leadership, in your direction, and to be able to be confident when you're working with a client, with a buyer, with a prospective buyer, prospective seller, whatever the case may be. using an upward swing in their tonality, such as hire me versus hire me. Same two words. And there is a world of difference between the two. Excuse me for interrupting my own show. You are freaking amazing. And because you're amazing, I'm going to ask for a quick favor. It'll just take you 30 seconds for you to leave a favorable five-star rating or review on your favorite platform. Then what I'll do is I'll enter you into a raffle

where we can meet 45 minutes for a free coaching session. And I'll also give you a copy of the book, Real Estate Evolution, which is the 10-step guide to CPI, consistent and predictable income. Oh, by the way, I'm the author of the book, Real Estate Evolution, which is the 10-step guide to CPI, consistent and predictable income. Oh, by the way, I'm the author of that book. So if you'd like for me to coach you, give you some nuggets and help you in your business, go ahead and leave a review

and you can enter into the monthly raffle to win. Janine, I got a question for for you so you're speaking about that uh that thing that it may be more common that that challenges women in in in their communication style what have you seen that's more common that challenges the masculine energy in their communication style uh it can be overconfidence with the men by the way men also shoulder shrug it's not shoulder shrugging. It's just for women. It's women asking tough questions where we really have some skin in the game and we want to have a good outcome. That's where we begin to get uncertain. Not all of us,

but many of us become uncertain. Everyone shoulder shrugs. Your kids are shoulder shrug. A shoulder shrug is uncertainty. So men can become a little too intense. A good friend of mine just lost his job today and he's shocked because he's been doing a great job. And him and I, we had a meeting scheduled. There's this big pitch tomorrow. He was going to bring me in. This was a really big contract for me. This me this morning and said, Oh my God, you're not going to believe this. And I said, what happened? And he said something along, I'm on my phone now, so I can't read it, but something along the lines of his energy is hit in his intensity was too much for this part of the country where he is now working. Now his intensity worked really well here in the DC area. This man has a lot of love in his heart. He's an incredible leader, but his leadership style was not working more over in the Midwest area. And this all just happened. So I think this is really important for men and some alpha females to realize is, are you not only paying it? I like to say, Dan, and you at home, either listening or watching is if a mirror were to drop down in your

last negotiation or sales call, would your body language and your tone and pitch match who you believe you are being on the inside? Or is there a disconnect here? And I think the biggest challenge with men is overcompensating. They don't even realize it because you're just being authentic. You might sit or stand with wide body language. So I kind of do this naturally. My hand was on my hip as we started, which is a little attitude-y. But taking up confidence, taking up confidence, my computer didn't work. And so it's like when we take up space, we know thanks to Amy Cuddy and some research done at Harvard, when we take up more space, we increase our testosterone, which is connected with bravado and confidence,

not like testosterone where I have to like micro blade my face because I suddenly have lots of facial hair that popped in from that superwoman pose here. But our testosterone goes up when we take up space. Men tend to be more apt to taking up a space, the hand on the wall, hand on the hip right here, taking up this space where women will not do this as much. It can be overpowering. So my tip to men who might be listening or watching is, are you reading the room? I mean, it's great to look at yourself if a mirror were dropped down in front of you, but are you paying attention? Did Janine Driver come in and you're potentially my new real estate agent and all

of a sudden i'm closing my body language i'm holding my wrist i'm touching i'm playing with my hair i'm kind of they're called pacifiers right the higher the hold more anxiety is told so i came in folding my hands so let's do this little experiment dan um fold your hands and say who's on the phone janine who's on the phone janine um who's on the phone, Janine? Who's on the phone, Janine? Who's on the phone, Janine? Grab your wrist. Who's on the phone, Janine? Upper arm. Who's on the phone? Who's on the phone? Now your throat. Who's on the phone? Who's on the phone? Now your neck. Who's on the phone? Who's on the phone? Now your forehead. Who's on the phone? Who stresses you out the most, Dan on my on my on my head on my forehead yeah on your forehead so the higher the hold more anxiety is told so as a man if you go in or an alpha female that's

great that you are you know i love this song um it's called g6 you'll have to put on alexa play g6 after after you listen to this hold on hold on wait wait alexa play g6 after you listen to this. Hold on, hold on. Wait, wait. Alexa, play G6. I just need to do that to mess with the audience, right? Because right now we just have like, you know, many, many Alexas going on. I just, I thought that would be fun. Go on, sorry. That's so funny. That's so funny.

So all of theirs, all their Alexas are playing G6. Mine in my living room is called Ziggy, so it's not listening to us. Ziggy, play G6. Cancel, cancel, Ziggy. But I love this. It's like, it's a G6. It's a G6. Paying attention to the body language of all of a sudden, I might have had folded hands, but now I'm talking to you.

And I'm like, okay, so you're telling me I can't live in the Rose Hill area, even though they have a really good school system because they have a new principal. You're telling me my budget isn't fitting in that neighborhood. You're telling me with your hand on your forehead. Yes. Pay attention because your body language might be coming in like a G6. It might be too much. Right. So for me, I'm in like a Volkswagen bug from the 1960s, you know, and you're coming in like a G6. It's too much. And paying attention. And you know this because you teach NLP, of course, you're the best at it.

I've never seen someone teach it or talk about it in a way that's more accessible for people to understand. And this matching and mirroring, if you're coming in like a G6 and I'm coming in as a Volkswagen bug, we're going to have a disconnect here. And I don't think you need to, you know, I don't think that's rocket science for people to understand. What I want people to understand is the higher these pacifiers, a pacifier comforts a baby. And if you're listening at home, I'm folding my hands, I'm touching my elbow, I'm going up my throat, the back of my neck, and then my forehead. Those higher the holds, more anxiety is told. If someone suddenly starts to rub their eye behind our eye dan and you at home it listener is um a nerve back here and when we touch our eye this nerve vagus nerve moves

and it tickles our brain and literally they've done fmris dan and you at home where you can see like a cloud coming down after this nerve tickles the brain. And that is relaxing us. Babies, when they have a temper tantrum, just before they fall asleep, start to rub their eyes and then boom, they're asleep. We see world leaders touching their eyes. So in a meeting, if you're talking and someone suddenly starts touching their eyes, my question is, are you matching and mirroring?

What's your energy like? What's your body language like? Are you taking up too much space? And that person is having these high level pacifiers. This is where you need to get smaller. You know, people often say to me, what's good and bad body language. There's no good and bad because guess what, Dan, if, and you at home, if all of a sudden you're noticing I'm rubbing my eyes, I might want you to hold your wrist. I might want you to fold your hands. I might want you to get smaller because your confidence is too

much for someone. It's too much for someone. Sorry, I'm still here, but someone buzzed in there. Yeah. So Janine, so let's talk about like buying signals. Let's say that a, let's use a real estate agent as an example. And let's say they're consulting somebody to get hired on a listing appointment. And they're meeting with a husband and a wife or two partners, whoever they're meeting with. And what types of things would indicate interest or disinterest? This is a really great question, Dan. One is called gravity defying. So gravity defying is a positive thing. So you may remember Joey from friends. He'd be like, how you doing? How you doing?

And he would do these like eyebrow flashes. I'm trying my best to do them. I don't know if it's making anyone excited, but so right here, these eyebrow flashes, it's an excitement cue. And so this is like the earth gravity can't hold me down. Another excitement cue is if you're talking to someone and suddenly their thumbs come up, their hands might be folded and their thumbs come up. Or they'll suddenly start rocking up and down on their toes. And so they're going up on their toes. We'll see cops do this when they pull someone over on the side of the road. You'll often see the cops going up on their toes. You could be seated and still do this. Back in the day, this is old news, but a guy named Herman Cain was running for president and there were some

scandals about him. And I remember him talking about the scandals and he was going up on his toes. I go, wow, isn't he a little arrogant? He's thinking he's getting away with this shenanigans as he's going up on his toes. So these are excitement cues. It's as if the earth's gravity, Dan, and you at home is, it is so powerful that it's, it can't, I mean, the earth's gravity is not, the emotion I'm feeling is so strong. The earth's gravity can't pull my brows down. Can't pull my thumbs down. Can't keep my heels on the ground. That's how excited I am that I am counteracting the Earth's gravity. And so these are excitement cues. Now, here's the deal.

You can spot them, but you don't know what the catalyst is for it. Maybe the excitement cue is, I've decided I don't want to work with this guy. I decided that last real estate agent, you know, maybe my, you know, maybe I'm dating someone and he's got his own real estate agent and I got my own real estate agent because we're not married and he's kind of doing the lay of the land. And I show you in an excitement queue because I'm deciding, yeah, we're not going to work with you. This is the last time we'll see you. Right. So we don't know what the catalyst is. This is where you would ask the MIW formula. Maybe I'm wrong here. It seems to me you're excited about something. Maybe I'm wrong here. It seems like something really caught your curiosity here.

And then ask that powerful question. And then I say, wait, W A I T, which stands for why am I talking? So ask the question and then wait, look for these excitement cues that going up on their, up on their toes or their thumbs going up. By the way, same thing in poker. I don't gamble or drink, but in poker, the same thing, you'll see excitement cues. If you were to watch someone play poker, just observe them and you could predict who might have the better hand, or at least they think they do because you see these excitement cues going up. The opposite would be, of course, an increase in pacifiers happening. All of a sudden, you have this increase in them touching themselves, suddenly has gone up, a spike in stress.

I'm reading this on you, Dan, every time we interact. So, right, very confident. And all of a sudden you scratch your eyebrow. I go, huh, that's interesting when he scratched his eyebrow on that particular topic. We'll have to talk about that another time. So I'm always keeping an eye on these pacifiers that increase with stress and anxiety. There's something called the belly button rule. And I call it the belly button rule. It's we face our belly button towards people we like,

admire and trust. So if my, I'm talking to our good friend, Frazier. So I'm talking to Frazier. I can even flirt it up with Frazier, but my belly button is facing you, Dan Roshan. Frazier's like, oh, Janine's like flirting it up with me. But really subconsciously, you're the person I'm interested in because my belly button is facing you. So I say, look around the room. Do you have the husband and wife or husband and husband or wife and wife? How many belly buttons are facing you when you're talking to them? If their belly button has suddenly turned to face their door and exit subconsciously, they want out of there. I call this naval intelligence, naval intelligence.

So naval intelligence, it's our first connection to another human being is our belly button. So paying attention to pacifiers, paying attention to these, these gestures where we're elevating and then the belly button. You already know 87% of all real estate agents fail in this business. And you also know it doesn't have to be that way. If you're a real estate agent and you're looking for consistent and predictable income, I invite

for you to get your free copy of Real Estate Evolution, the 10-step guide to CPI, consistent and predictable income for real estate agents. And you can do so when you visit www.therealestateevolution.com. I'll share with you your book that I authored to show you the way. Thanks. Yeah, when I'm in a networking event, for example, I pay attention to my own feet, for example. And before I learned a version of what you're teaching us right now, I learned about, you know, like if you have one foot facing a person and the other foot facing the exit, then that is subconsciously communicating you're not interested. So if you catch yourself doing that, then, you know, maybe straighten your feet up if you, you know, if you want to be interested. And if you're catching somebody doing that in a standing

position where there's one foot facing you and the other foot facing to the right or the left away from you or, you know, towards an exit, then you can consider like, oh, this person's not interested in, you know, in whatever it is that we're communicating about. And so that just gives you the opportunity to reset. It doesn't mean anything other than, huh, they're not interested. So now what do I do? Maybe I can reset. Maybe I can pay attention to their energy.

I can connect with the rapport. I can ask them questions. I have a tip here, too. I have a tip as well. And go ahead. As you say, actively listen, I interrupt. That's okay. move your mind. So my background's law enforcement. I worked for ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms for 18 years. I worked at the FBI for a year. I trained the CIA and Scotland Yard Police. My background's law enforcement. And we get more confessions, Dan, and you at home, walking from the jail cell to the interrogation room or from the interrogation room to the police car. Think about exercising. You're a big exercise guy, Dan. If you're stressed, how do you feel after you exercise? Oh, great. Fantastic. Great. Move your body, move your guy, Dan, if you're stressed, how do you feel after you exercise?

Oh, great. Fantastic. Great. Move your body, move your mind. And so if you were at a networking event like Dan is talking about, and you see one person's foot is out the door, I call this toe talk, right? So if one person's foot is out the door, how do you do that pivot? You know, I think of friends, pivot, pivot, right? You could move their body, move their mind. The best places to be in a networking event are where there's nature. So standing near a window where you can look outside and see trees, water, nature, or if there's, if you are inside, inside plant or a fish tank, any place where there's some type of life and movement, people will be more amenable during those situations when they're connecting with nature and not just like standing at the bar and in a small space. And so pay attention,

move your body, move your mind. For me, if I saw someone, you know, kind of closing off their body language and I still wanted to engage with them, I might pull them aside to show them something. Oh, look at, I wanted to introduce you. I may introduce them to something. Sort of like a pattern interrupt. Yes. So move their body, move their mind. Yes. And you'll get them out of that. That's great.

Yes. So you know other lingo. Hey, all right. So you mentioned earlier, and I teach, you know, when we're talking about persuasion, we're talking about communication. Talk less, sell more. And so that's something that I find that the expert salespeople embrace. And I believe that salespeople who maybe truly lack the confidence as they intend to sort of over-talk and talk too much and almost talk themselves. I can't tell you how often I've seen an agent or a salesperson talk themselves out of

a sale. Right. And it's like, literally you have a yes. And then they just keep talking and talking and talking and talking. I'm like, dude, you have the yes, shut up. Right. And so what are your thoughts about, you know, and that's about, you know, verbal communication, but how's that play into what we're talking about today? Well, I think, you know, this is a challenge that I have. This is one of my biggest weaknesses that I will overtalk. Opportunity. This is an opportunity for me. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

This is an opportunity for me, for sure. And I have a team. I think that you want to know what your biggest strengths and weaknesses are. And this is a challenge for me. I for sure have the gift to gab. I like to say I'm a show monkey. You want me on the stage because all of a sudden the electricity goes out. I can still speak. I can be funny. I'm quick on my feet. I can still land that G6, right? Even though all of a sudden we lost the motor. It's like, I got it.

However, on the back end, when it comes to my biggest weakness, I think to answer your question, Dan, is know where your strengths and weaknesses are to my biggest weakness, I think to answer your question, Dan, is know where your strengths and weaknesses are. My biggest weakness or challenge or room for growth is gathering research because I talk so much that I might ask too many questions. And so I am talking past the sales. I have my sister, Carrie, my middle sister. She's also a recruiter. She's really good at noticing when the sale has been sold. Great. And she's like, you know, what do we need to do to get you to yes? They say, what do we need to do to get you to yes? She recaps what she's going to send to them. Great. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to send it. If I'm on the call, she like, she'll text me,

stop talking, you know, let me close this right here. I don't like to be on those calls because of that. I would rather have someone that's really good at gathering the data and research and paying attention. I'm motivated to evaluate, to create a system. I have cheeky expressions and to execute. And so those are my strengths. And I think that it's OK to to know that that if you overtalk the sale, then you may want to partner up with someone that is really good at the sale, but you're really quick on your feet and the executing. And I think that when we have a team that butts heads, it's because we make decisions differently.

But what many people don't know is when we butt heads, that means we're complimenting one another in the decision-making process. If we're alike in all areas, then we have groupthink and you actually leave money on the table when you do that because we're thinking the same way. And that's great. If people can kill it on the close, but can that same person who kills it on the close, are they good then in the process? Are they then really good at showing the homes? Are they then really good at processing the paperwork?

Are they then really good at getting referrals? Like how do you get people to be raving fans? You know, many people don't know this. I don't know if you want to talk about it. Many people, I'll say you did a great job, Dan. Wow. You got me my dream house. You were efficient. You were kind. You, you know, you hold this like house for sale. I saw something of you online, Dan, where you're like jumping up and down. You're like, yay. You're like, I'm more excited than the new homeowner who bought her first house. And you're like on this little gift, jumping up and down, holding some like for sale sign, or it was really fun to watch. That person wasn't doing that. Right. So what is your biggest strength and how do you partner up with someone that where you

compliment one another, where together you make stronger decisions. I think that would be my tip. Less than, I think, because you can, listen, I'm 53. I do pretty well in sales. I'm like, am I an entrepreneur company? I'd like to think, I know it's all relative. I'm happy with my numbers is I I've learned that a hundred times. I'm never going to change. I'm always going to be the person that's motivated to act and to create the system. So for me, I like to stay in my lane and partner up with people like you, Dan, like my sister, Carrie, that are really good at the front end. And then I come in and do my little creative magic. And it doesn't mean they're not good at those things as well. You and my sister, Carrie, or whoever at Frazier, who's in my line.

It's just, I know this is not my strong suit. I talk, clearly I'm doing it now i talk past the sale i think i just i think i already sold it and then i talked past it so proof well it's something it's something that i find in my world you know it's interesting is when i go to a closing i 100 of the time the feedback that i get is God, Dan, your team was so amazing. And I love hearing that. And I give the kudos to my team when I hear that. Right. But it's never Dan, you were so amazing. It was always your team was so amazing. Right. And, but here's the reality of it. Does it matter? Do I need to be the one that they fall in love with that they give the kudos to, or does it matter? Do I need to be the one that they fall in love with, that they

give the kudos to, or does it matter? It's not about, it's not about me. It's about the standards that I represent within my business, within my sales business. And as long as that client, we have a client today, this morning, in our CPI coaching community that we meet every single morning, Monday to Friday. And we start the day off with, you know, inspiration and training, et cetera. And this morning, Jolene, who's been with me for six years, we start the day off with tell me something good. And Jolene says, you know what? Talking to the group, there's 25 or so agents there. She said, here's something good. I had a client that called me last night and says, I'm having trouble writing your positive review. How do I do this? Can you help me? Right? Like reaching out to her, right? Now, me as the agent,

that's what I want. That's the standard that I represent. It doesn't have to be me that they're singing the kudos about. It just has to be that they are freaking, you know, like joyful and that we've exceeded their expectations. We've over communicated with them. We've taken the time to teach to sell so that they understand what to expect throughout the process. And that's what's important to me. And so Janine, as we wrap up here, I want to mention your newsletter in the driver's seat, which is on Substack. How does somebody get that, by the way? You can just Google Substack and there's a paid version and a free version. And I put, I'm doing one later today, hopefully. I do personal and professional things that I'm working on. Either I'm single, divorced with three kids.

You know, if I have some challenges in the dating world or challenges as a single parent or as an entrepreneur, as a business person, as a leader. Or if I find out something really like I found out something about a year ago now called REA, right ear activation, which I never heard of REA. So if there's ambient noise around, then we lead with our right ear can grab information. So if you're at a networking event, watch what ear leans in to hear. I think someone just talked about teach to sell. That's my friend, Dan Rochon's book, you know, that's his system. And you kind of hear something that grabs your ear. Pay attention. It might be your right ear activation. So when I found that out, it was for a court TV segment. I did a ton of research and then I did a newsletter on it. And so anytime I'm learning something new or I'm teaching something to one of the clients that I mentor or as a coach or, you know, something

that I have with friends like you or or Frasier, or my sister, a conflict or an opportunity, I will write a newsletter on it and teach people. So you're learning what I'm learning. Maybe today I'll do feminine and masculine energy, since you said you're not overly familiar with it. And it's really interesting because they both have strengths and they both have weaknesses. And there's a time and a place to both men and women can tap into both. So maybe I'll do my newsletter today. So go to Substack, Google it, In the Driver Seat with Janine Driver. I'm also going to be launching a podcast soon, hopefully in the next two weeks called In the Driver Seat, of course, with Janine Driver, putting you in the driver

seat of your own life. If you want to be a co-host, I'm going to have a different co-host every time. Let me know and let me know how I can help in any way. I appreciate being a guest on your show. Hopefully people learn something new or if they didn't learn something new, they revisited something old. And if I pissed people off a little bit, that might be a good thing too, because I like to say, you know, the Marines say this, to get gold, they heat the gold. So the impurity comes to the surface and they take off the impurities and what's left is really powerful. So hopefully you've walked away with some gold today to help you be better at sales,

to have no broke months. And of course, remember, teach the self. Because when you share information, that's when people begin to invest more in you. Thanks for bringing me on, Dan. And thanks for listening, everybody. And Janine, thank you for being here. And everybody, as always, have the best day of your life. Be grateful.

Make good choices. Go help somebody. And Google in the driver's seat, Substack with Janine Driver and sign up. God bless you. Thanks so much for listening to the No Broke Months podcast today. Until the next show, I invite for you to be grateful, make good choices, help someone, have the best day of your life, and go find a listing. This is Mitch Steven. You know, I had the pleasure of meeting and interviewing Dan Rochon. Dan is a

top team leader in the DC area with Keller Williams. And he breaks down his journey. He's somebody that, you know, struggled for the first six months, like so many real estate agents do. And then something clicked. He helped me tremendously, specifically with creating systems in place. It's very important to have a process in place that works, not just for you, but for also the client.