No Broke Months For Salespeople - The Mindset That Builds Leaders: John Donnelly’s Formula for Consistent Wins Part 2

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

In this episode of the No Broke Months Podcast, Dan Rochon sits down with John Donnelly, Executive Director of Sales at Service First Mortgage. John shares his journey from tech retail to leading over 100 mortgage professionals—and the mindset shift that helped him thrive during the toughest markets. Discover how a 12-hour walk led to deep personal insight, how servant leadership builds elite teams, and why now is the greatest opportunity in a down market. If you're feeling stuck in today’s real estate cycle, this conversation will reignite your mission and momentum.What you’ll learn on this episodeLeadership begins with leading yourself—then casting a vision others want to follow.The mortgage market volume has hit 1990 levels—but the survivors today are the leaders tomorrow.Success isn’t about silver bullets. It’s about doing the hard things that most avoid—again and again.A 12-hour solo walk helped John gain clarity, create a personal board of directors, and redefine “class act” leadership.If you’re still standing in this market, you’ve already passed the first test. Now it’s time to level up.The real estate downturn since 2022 has been a “slow burn.”Clarity of personal values leads to confidence in leadership.What you do now attracts who follows you later.Resources mentioned in this episode12 Hour Walk by Colin O’Brady : A book that inspired John’s breakthrough challenge to walk 30 miles in a day.The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter : The book that got him thinking about annual hard challenges.Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill : The original inspiration for John’s mental board of directors.LinkedIn: – Connect with JohnJohnDonnelly.com: Learn more about his leadership journey. To find out more about Dan Rochon and the CPI Community, you can check these links:Website: No Broke MonthsPodcast: No Broke Months for Salespeople PodcastInstagram: @donrochonxFacebook: Dan RochonLinkedIn: Dan Rochon

Here's the good news. If you're in business right now, if you're in real estate sales, if you're in the mortgage business or something associated with that and you're thriving, you're surviving. But I think if you're surviving today, I think you'll survive until the turn. If you made it this long, you made it through the worst of it. Welcome to the No Broke Months for Salespeople podcast, the ultimate destination for salespeople, business people, and entrepreneurs. As you immerse yourself in this show, you'll discover the secrets to unlocking consistent and predictable income.

We reveal the new way to persuade human behavior by mastering the art of the teach to sell method. Get ready to transform your approach and achieve unparalleled success. I think for the right mindset for the right people, when it gets harder, that's where the opportunity is. And you're able to for me, I got my real estate license in 2007 and 2008 2009. Those are tough days, right? But I was able to figure out 18

months after I got my real estate license, I bought the brokerage I worked for. Right now this is in a downtime in, because it was like, I didn't know any better. That's right. That's great. Sometimes. Yeah. I think that that Ignatius Bliss kind of thought is good for some

people because they overthink it. Sure. Now, how familiar are you with you in the 1990? Like what happened after that? Like how long was it? Do you know how long it was at that low volume or do you have that data? Yeah, I had some charts up earlier. I was just looking back while I'm talking to you.

It kind of fluctuated a little bit and then it started growing, right? It started, the volume started growing all the way until 2008, until the crash kind of hit. So what I'm asking that question because though it's a different economic cycle, it's a different, there's different things that were causing a 90 to be low volume versus today, but if you can look backwards, it can maybe say, how long do we anticipate to be in this low demand? Yeah.

I think that it's, it feels different to me. The reason I say that is interest rates in my career since 1997, for the most part, have just gone down almost the whole time. So I got a 30 year run of rates coming down. Now all of a sudden they pop up and everybody freaks out. This is an uncharted place for a lot of us that have never been in the business. And so I also got to experience the 2008 crash. It happened so much faster.

We had this meltdown. 2010 was the slow year, a lot of ways where it was, everybody was trying to figure it out. I kept saying back then there's going to be a lot less forks in the pie. As this thing starts to turn, you're going to get business, even though there's less of it because so many people are out. And it just forced everybody out immediately within a year. Well, we've been forcing people out now for two and a half years, I feel like. And so it's a slower, it's a slower death of a thousand cuts right now.

That's just different. And so it's a good perspective.'s a slower depth of a thousand cuts right now. That's just different. And so it's a good perspective. I hadn't considered that and you're completely right. So I've been through two downturns. Now the one when I got started in 2008 now and the difference was that literally that turn happened between November, 2007. You had the seasonal, you had the seasonal dip, which happens every single year. March 2008, it never came back up.

And so it was literally over that winter cycle right there. It like, it flipped and it went down and until it bottomed out and call it 2009, depending on where you are and your geography. But here it's been two and a half years of just, it was really, really busy coming, coming right out of the pandemic in the early days of the pandemic. It was super busy. And then, you know, and then it just dissipated and disappeared. And now it's two and a half years later.

So man, like first I thought it was going to be, it was because of interest rates and then it was because of inflation and then it's because of the president and because of the economics and the tariffs and there's always, and it's, of the president and because of the economics and the tariffs and there's always and it's almost like one after another, a hit after a hit to be able to cause these backwoods a bit. It is and honestly, I feel like we're not quite out of the weeds yet. I think it's not till next year that it really starts to turn because tariffs and recession and all the things that are going on, job markets, a lot

of this stuff is just going to keep us people uneasy. It's going to keep people on. Well, here's the good news. If you're in business right now, if you're in real estate sales, if you're in the mortgage business or something associated with that and you're surviving, I don't know if it's going to get worse. I think I agree with you that it's going to be a second before it gets better and maybe it will get worse.

I don't know. And I will see. Right. But I think if you're surviving today, I think you'll survive until until the turn. If you made it this long, you made it through the worst of it. Right. There's a speck of light out there that and John, I wasn't talking to any of the audience when I just said that I was just talking to myself.

Just okay. Exactly. We all need it. Right. I wasn't talking to any of the audience when I just said that, I was just talking to myself, just saying. Okay, exactly. We all need it, right? I'm just talking to me. Yeah. Hey man, I get that. We need that self-taught too. Yeah.

All right. So let's, so let's go back to leadership. So thank you for sharing with us your magic ball and a little bit of the history of the mortgage. And as a leader, what's the difference? Cause you've led smaller organizations and larger organizations, correct? Yes. What's the difference?

Is there a difference? Depends on like, depends on the size. Yes. In my experience, I haven't led a nationwide thousands of people, but smaller teams and then large region of teams and multiple branches, a couple hundred employees type of thing. The difference is your communication style is one thing that really matters when it's a small branch or a small team. It's easy to have real casual one-off little conversations and communicate everything more effectively. When you have a large organization,

it's a lot, you gotta be systematized on how you approach everything from your communication to product rollouts to just how you support people, how you even get together. You gotta have a plan and a system for everything. The best leaders, they don't sell. They teach, they build trust, plan and a system for everything. your copy to visit www.teachtoselfbook.com. That's teachtoselfbook.com. And Clay Boatis says you're never gonna see again. Your future followers are waiting

because people don't wanna be sold. They wanna be led. And it's your time. Have you noticed that your voice gets amplified? Big time. Yeah, everybody's watching more than you think. They're watching every move you make. They're watching the word you say. I remember I was 25 years old.

I was a food and beverage director at a small luxury hotel. I had three restaurants and a marina that I was responsible in a bar that was responsible for the food and beverage service. And I had around 100 and some odd employees that worked for me. And one day I said, I was an off-handed thing, something like, we should get different silverware for this restaurant. And literally two weeks later, there's a big shipment of silverware. And I'm like, where did this come from?

I'm like, no, you said to get it. And I was just like, I was just talking out loud. I had a 25 year old kid, basically. That was like one of the first leadership lessons I learned. I'm like, gee whiz, that's not what I meant. Double check with me before you take action on that. But yeah, it's true because a lot of times it is just ideas and things you're thinking about

and you want to talk about it, but then people, your team will take action on it and you're not ready. And it's maybe not even after you sit on it a day or two, it's not even what you want to do. Sure. Yeah. Sure. So if you it a day or two, it's not even what you want to do, you know? Sure, yeah. Sure. So if you're a new leader today, what advice do you have for them?

That's a good one. I think knowing how you want to be seen and how you want to be perceived and getting clear on your leadership style and vision is interesting. This is something that I didn't actually think about until I did that 12 hour walk. I'm gonna have a little quick little story. I was thinking about the type of leader I want to be.

And I started thinking about the individuals that are influential in my life. Like Tony Robbins has been somebody that I've listened to his tapes when I was young. And so I said, Hey, what do I had this board of directors of people that I'm trying to be like, and what kind of advice would they give to me? And it was just, you know, I was on a 12 hour walk, I have nothing to think about. So I started going deep into this idea. And what came out of it for me was, I want to be perceived as a class act. This is kind of my words. And

so what does that mean? So I had to start defining that. It means how I dress, how I show up in my own time, how my words are spoken, the things I do. And the reason I came up with that is because I tried to have conversations with these people in my board and get feedback. I know it's a little bit goofy to think about, but it was cool. It was a cool exercise. And I've used this filter. I'm trying my best to be this class act in all aspects of my life, through my parenting, through my leadership, through all that.

And so I wouldn't have given this advice if it wasn't for recently, but the first thing to think about is know who you are, the type of person you are, where you need to work on, the leader you're trying to be and get clear on that. Who else is on your board of directors? I've got Jesse Itzler, John Maxwell, Tony Robbins, Kobe Bryant, John Wooden, Teddy Roosevelt. We got a big group of people, like lots of all aspects are for different reasons. And then I've actually started breaking that down

a little bit as to why. And then I've started like reading up on some of these people to get to know them a little bit better, just as my own thing, just my own leadership journey. I also have a board of directors and you probably learned that from thinking Grow Rich? Is that where you get that from? Yeah, that kind of the idea of that. And then there's one more spin on it is I can't remember the book, but there was a picture this guy had on his in his office of the 10 leaders and he had it painted custom painted. And that's what actually I was thinking about the most

is that picture, who would be in my picture if I had it painted and how would they be interacting? But yes, back from thinking grow rich is where it gives the original evolution of it. But anyway, it's cool thought. So on that 12 hour journey, you talked to us about, walk me through that 12 hour journey, you talked to us about walk me through that 12 hour journey. I'm curious about that about that walk. Yeah. The first thing is you're not supposed to have people with you, no music, and you're just supposed to walk.

You don't have to go a certain distance. You just movement is good. And so can you have a notepad with you? I had a notepad. I had a phone and you're not supposed to have your phone alerts on you can use it for gps or whatever I use mine to take notes And so I spoke to it a lot But I had a notepad I had water snacks and I walked out my front door And I started going and what I quickly realized is the places i'm going go are places I can use the restroom so I needed I had to keep that in mind because I was in the city and so I was thinking about that okay if I go here I can go the restroom so I was a guide for me but ultimately I just

started walking in. What if the secret the top performance is not selling but doing something completely different? My new book, Teach to Sell, Why Top Performers Never Sell and What They Do Instead, is about to change the way you think about influence, leadership and success. Because it's not about pushing harder, it's about teaching people how to think so they choose you. Teach to Sell is being published by Post Hill Press and

distributed worldwide by Simon & Schuster in February 2026. We're in pre-sale now. When you grab your copy early, you'll not only be the first in line, but you'll also unlock exclusive swag you're not going to see anywhere else. So visit www.teachtocellbook.com. That's teachtocellbook. book.com preorder your copy today start leading the way the top 1% do. Teach to Sell isn't just a book it's a shift that will build your business and your life. There's immediate things that are on your mind when you start going that you start processing through well you know whatever those things are and then all of a sudden there's this dead time where you're like,

what am I even doing this for? And you go through this moment of challenging yourself. And then a couple hours into it, I don't know what happened, but I looked up and I had gone about an hour and I honestly couldn't remember the street I crossed or anything I saw. I was so deep in thought. I was like, wow, that was pretty cool that I can't believe I'm standing where I'm at right now.

And I was like, I'm tracking my distance. And I was like, if I just keep going, I'll go a marathon. I've never ran a marathon. And then I ended up just going. But what I did was I used an app called journal on my iPhone and I liked to talk to it while I was walking. So I just talked to it a lot. And then I compiled all my notes

together at the end. And some of the stuff you get to thinking about is nothing. And other is like real breakthrough stuff. And what was cool for me is I didn't really think about this 12 hour walk. I just did it. You know, I did, I just, I didn't have a lot of thoughts. I wasn't super prepared. I didn't even have a major problem. I was trying to sort out. I wasn't, I just said, yeah, I want to do this right now and see what happens. And that really resulted in me going, Hey, yeah, I'm turning 50. What does that mean?

And what does this look like for my family? It had to be 12 hours to get to the depth of the thought. If it was a two hour walk, I wouldn't have got there. But there was times you're bored out of your mind and you're just walking along and like, I don't know what to do right now. And then you just start thinking back. Yeah, maybe I need to work on this more. And it's just your brain just goes, you learn a lot about yourself. And I learned physically go back to that doing hard things. I walked 30 miles. I walked 60,000 steps. That's pretty crazy. That's a hard thing.

It, and it became now easy. If you say, can you walk 30 miles? But yeah, I can do that. So not hard now. And not only that 20 miles is a freaking cakewalk. Yeah, exactly. Piece of cake. I would have told you 20 miles was like a long freaking way before.

Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'll walk pretty regular, but not that kind of distance, three miles, four miles, not 30 miles. And so that was cool. That evolution changed the way I challenged my kids, the books I read, the journeys I'm on, vacations I want to take, where I want to go in my company or my personal leadership, I decided, I was like, Hey, how do I increase my influence? my company or my personal leadership.

I decided, I was like, Hey, how do I increase my influence? Maybe I should share my story and get on podcasts and, you know, write articles and do different posts about it. And just doing things is what's attractive. That's what I attract to. I thought about that. Like, what do I attract to another people? It's the success they're having in the things they're doing. The things they're doing now, not the things they used to do 20 years ago,

like the things they're doing now. things they're doing now, not the things they used to do 20 years ago, like the things they're doing now. That's what's attractive to me. And so I'm trying to do things that are interesting. I love it. How long ago did you take that? That walk? It was the last April. So it's been a year, one year.

Okay. And I was saying, yeah, go ahead. You said you didn't really prepare for it. What you just had to thought you found the book and you just did it. I read this book called Comfort Crisis and it's a great book and it's kind of challenged you to do something hard every year, a misogi is their term for it. Right. And so I had read this book and I was telling a friend of mine who lives

in Oklahoma about the book and he goes, oh, you're going to love the 12 hour walk book. Have you read that? I was telling a friend of mine who lives in Oklahoma about the book and he goes, oh, you're going to love the 12 hour walk book. Have you read that? I was like, no. And so I downloaded it and I listened to it like a few days. Like I loved it. It's easy to read. It's stories about this guy, Colin O'Brady's, all these hard things he's done. And it's just motivating me. I was like, man, I'm doing this. I'm walking. I'm telling my wife, I'm going on Sunday. Like I'm doing this right now. And I told her and she's like, you're going to do what? I said, I'm leaving at 5 30.

I'm walking out the front door wherever lives. 360 says at 5 30 tonight, you're picking me up and don't be late. Wherever I'm like, wherever I'm at, I don't even know where I'm going to be. And she's like, all right, it's fine. And so it wasn't, but I had this ideas of this misogy or doing something hard. I'm turning 50. All that was in me already. It just brought it out of me. And then, I don't know, John, have you heard for your 50 first? Have you heard about the 24 hour

walk? I can do it. I can do it. But yeah, I don't know. The older you get, the longer these walks go. I'll be walking for days, but no, it's just cool when you discover something like that, especially when it's unexpected. I love it. Well, John, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us today, sharing your market insights about the mortgage and especially about the leadership and a little bit about your journey.

How could somebody learn more about you? How can they find you? I think the best way to find me is go and connect to me on LinkedIn. leadership in a little bit about your journey. How could somebody learn more about you? How can they find you? I think the best way to find me is go and connect to me on LinkedIn. The John Donnelly is I'm on LinkedIn, pretty active on there. And JohnDonnelly.com is a website of mine that I use

and I can connect with me there, but I'd love to connect with you on LinkedIn. All right, I'm gonna send out a request to be your LinkedIn pal here in just a second. That's awesome, I appreciate you, Dan. It's been great. And John, nice to meet you and God bless you everybody. Have the best day of your life. Be grateful. Make good choices. Go help somebody and God bless you. We'll see you. Hey there, NoBroke Muts listener. I've got some exciting news. We just passed 375,000 downloads for the No Broke Month Podcast and I could not have done

it without you. I am beyond grateful for every single listener who tunes in daily, takes action, and shares this journey with me. Now, with you and I, let's take it a step further. If this podcast has helped you, imagine what it could do for another salesperson who might be struggling. Share the show with them, let them know there's a way to create consistent and predictable income.

Because no salesperson should ever have another broke month again. And hey, while you're at it, don't forget to like, subscribe, and leave us a favorable review. Your support helps us reach even more salespeople who need this until the next episode have the best day of your life be grateful make good choices you'll help someone and share the show with a friend God bless you