No Broke Months For Salespeople - What 35 Years in Real Estate Taught Debbi About Winning in Any Market

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

About the Guest – Debbi DiMaggio Debbi DiMaggio is a Realtor® with The DiMaggio Betta Group at Corcoran Icon Properties, serving both the Bay Area and Beverly Hills. For over 35 years, Debbi has worked alongside her husband and business partner, Adam Betta, helping clients navigate life’s biggest transitions — from upsizing and downsizing to relocation and starting fresh. Her approach is rooted in collaboration and compassion, two values that have defined her career and her life’s work. Debbi is a proud member of the National Association of Divorce Professionals (NADP) and holds the Senior Real Estate Specialist (SRES) designation, offering clients both expertise and empathy during sensitive life changes. She believes real estate is never just about the transaction — it’s about people, stories, and the journey of transformation. A lifelong learner, Debbi consistently attends industry events, takes advanced courses, and participates in webinars to stay ahead of market trends and elevate the service she provides. She is also the host of the inspiring podcast Mastering the Art of Success, where she interviews entrepreneurs, thought leaders, and creatives who share insights on living with passion, purpose, and positivity. Through her work, Debbi continues to inspire others to dream big, take action, and embrace change with grace. Connect with Debbi: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/debbidimaggio/?hl=en YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhL7l7e6Koz18x0CGA6qHtlDxz0EwXgGh Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/debbi.dimaggio/ Website: https://debbidimaggio.com/ ________________ What you’ll learn in this episode: ● Why loving what you do is the foundation of long-term sales success ● How to build real relationships in a world of texting and automation ● Why uncertain markets create opportunity for strategic buyers ● The “Mindset in Motion” framework: Goal → Believe → Internalize → Share → Activate ● How to protect your goals from negativity and surround yourself with support ● Why activation — not just intention — separates dreamers from achievers ● How discipline and belief can help you accomplish goals you once thought impossible To find out more about Dan Rochon and the CPI Community, you can check these links:Website: No Broke MonthsPodcast: No Broke Months for Salespeople PodcastInstagram: @donrochonxFacebook: Dan RochonLinkedIn: Dan RochonTeach to Sell Preorder: Teach to Sell: Why Top Performers Never Sell – And What They Do Instead

You're listening to No Broke Months for Salespeople Podcast. In this episode of the No Broke Months for Salespeople podcast, Dan Rochon, sits down with Debbie DiMaggio to explore what it truly means to embrace change in business and in life. With over 35 years in real estate, Debbie shares how mindset, resilience, and authentic relationship building create long-term success, even in shifting markets. From navigating economic uncertainty to running a marathon at 60, this is a moment. This episode is a masterclass in belief, activation, and unstoppable momentum. Welcome to the No Broke Months podcast. My name is Dan Rochon. I help salespeople entrepreneurs

and small business owners to have No Broke Months. Today, we're going to talk about mastering the art of success, embracing change and purpose with Debbie DiMaggio. And she's a realtor with the DiMaggio Beta Group at Corkron Iconiqon Properties in the Bay Area, California, and Beverly Hills. So she's got around 35 years of experience. If you're listening to this on the audio, you would never believe that she has 35 years of experience because she doesn't look like she's 35 years old, but you can see this if you're watching the video. So anyway, she helps help individuals and families navigate major life transitions from upsizing to downsizing to relocation and new beginnings. Welcome, Debbie. How are you today? I'm great. Thank you.

Wow, I love the opening of your new show. It's fabulous. This is season two. This is season too. I love it. I love it. Reinvention is amazing. I love change. Most people don't. I know. Well, today we're talking about embracing change. And so I know before we jump into change, let's learn a little bit about you. So I know you've been doing real estate sales for a very long time. Lots of success. Tell us like what caused you 35 years ago to jump into real estate sales. Sure. So when I was growing up, I never knew what I was going to do. The only thing I knew I was not going to do was real estate. So it's kind of funny that I should end up here. The long and the short of it, my dad was in real estate. He was buying properties and holding them and flipping them. And he was always tied to the phone. So what's changed is we're not tied anywhere. I can take my mic anywhere. I can take my laptop and my iPhone and we have all those apps and tools that we can work anywhere. So it changed that way. So when I was 25, I still didn't know what I wanted to do.

I went to Cal Berkeley. I was like, wow, there should be some amazing pill that tells me what I want to do and what I'm going to be when I grow up. And there was not. So I was 25. I'd just gotten my license, but I was living in L.A. And I didn't really know. I didn't have a network because I didn't grow up there.

And I was just like, what am I going to do? What is my life? And I was engaged to be married, but I'm like, I'm not a housewife. Yes, I'm married and have kids. but I was like, I still have to have a career. Like, that's what you do when you grow up. And so I was 25 and I wrote in my black leather day timer what I liked. And so I said, I love meeting people.

That's why I love podcasting. I love meeting people from different places, from different backgrounds. I love helping people. I love travel. I want something that has a beginning, a middle, and an end like real estate. It didn't know what it was at the time that I was outlining. But real estate, when you're doing a deal, It has a beginning, a middle, and an end.

So there's closure. And I wanted homework, and I wanted it to be a lifestyle. I didn't want to be a nine to five or an eight to seven or whatever regular jobs are. It was I did not want to have a boss. I like to work hard. So I wanted to be rewarded for that. And I didn't want someone to have that over me saying if I can move up or that just made me crazy. So I got, I did a little bit of classified advertising and advertising sales and, you know, luxury home magazines.

And again, I had a boss there, so that wasn't going to work with me. I fell into rentals. I moved back from L.A. to San Francisco. I fell into rentals. I started renting to just coincidentally to movie people who'd be filming movies in San Francisco. So I got into that niche. I started working with relocation companies.

At the time, there was no Craigslist. This was all phone calls. There wasn't even text messaging. So we were getting listings for rentals, and then we were renting them, and it was fast. And it was great. And I was meeting tons of people and people were relocating into San Francisco a ton and they had so much relocation into the city. So I loved it.

And then later that transpired into selling real estate. And yep, I've been doing it for 35 years. Debbie, thank you for sharing all that with us. And so you are the host of Mastering the Art of Success podcast. And you interview thought leaders, entrepreneurs and creatives who, you know, share their insights on living. and you know, living with passion and purpose and positivity. And you yourself are a lifelong learner. And so you shared with us a little bit of your journey, you know.

And what I heard what you shared there was really about aligning your passions and your being with your vocation. Given the experience that you have, either through your own personal experience or from, you know, the lifelong learning of observing others or from interviewing and, you know, learning from others as well, What have you discovered is a common flaw that salespeople have, human beings have, that we have? What comes to mind when I ask you that? A common flaw that we have? I would say, if you're going to do whatever it is, whether that's real estate, mortgage, whatever it is that you're going to do in life, an artist, I don't care, whatever it is, you have to want to be there.

You have to want to work hard. and it has to be authentic to you and you have to be passionate about it. I get up still to this day every day at the list of things I want to do. 3.30 a.m. we learned that in the pre-show. My goodness gracious. This woman wakes up at 3.30 in a morning. My husband tried to take the laptop and phone from me at about 7.30 this morning and I said, no, give it back. So I clearly love what I do. And if, If people don't love it, let's just talk about real estate or anyone who's an entrepreneur, right?

Because if you're an entrepreneur, you've got to have the passion, the dedication, or you're going to just crash and burn. So if you don't love it, you're not going to stay in it. So what someone was on my podcast the other day and he's like, I'm not trying to be harsh, but if you don't love real estate or you don't love what that is you're doing when it's all about you having to generate the business, get out of it, just get out. not going to work for you because you have to love it regardless if you're making money today or in a month from now. You have to be in it. You have to do the work. You have to build your network.

You have to send newsletters. You have to meet with people one and one. I mean, you just have to do it. And it's, you don't get a paycheck at the end of every day or every week or every month, maybe. So do it if you love it or do something else. Yeah, I think that's smart advice for any vocation or any relationship or anything that, any hobby, if you don't love doing whatever the heck you're doing, do something else. I mean, that's, I think, wise words. Debbie, so we're talking today about change. And so over a 35-year, you know, really, you know, a long career, of a successful career,

of a career with a lot of experiences. Well, let me ask the question. Has there been changed in the industry? Oh, God, yes. Okay. Right. You knew the answer, right? But I'll let you answer it.

Or ask for you to answer it rather. All right, so if there's been change, some of it is probably been helpful. Some of it may be sideways where it's, you know, whatever. And some of it may, you know, push back on us. So yet I find, at least in my experience, I bet you would share a similar experience is when things are going against you, that's really where the opportunity is. And when things are going really, really easy, yeah, that's great. And we appreciate that.

But it's going easy for everybody. so you don't necessarily need outshine your competitors, you just need to ride the wave. All that being said, what comes to mind of the top few things of change in the industry, whether good, bad, or indifferent, that come to mind? Right. So let me, two things popped into mind. There's so much in that question. So the two things that popped into my mind. So right now, we're in a very weird time with the economy, with interest rate, with wars, with, you know, global. There's so many things going on. And so, buyers are really reluctant to buy because of what's going on in our world right now.

But this is the time to buy. You know, usually I've never felt so strong about something, but we're in California and we're in an area. People still, you know, people do love California for all its faults. But it is a beautiful place and people still come here. I mean, we have so many people who've come from so many places. I think we have all of Ohio here. I mean that was a view in Ohio listening today. Debbie is saying nothing but beautiful things about your state and your culture.

I have a lot of good friends from Ohio. They all come here. Anyway, where I was going with that was this is a time to buy. If a home, we have been in my, I've been in it 35 years up until three years ago for the longest time, multiple offers, 50, 100, 200, 300, a million over-asking. That's what our buyers endured. And some were able to get houses during those times. Some went on to rent.

Some just got out of the game altogether. So now, if a home has been on the market for more than 10 days, if it's on two weeks, if it's on a month, that is a lifetime for us. So that's how fast our market used to move. So if a home is on the market and the seller doesn't want to take it off the market, they're a seller. So that's the time to make the market. Now, to make the offer.

So what's going to happen if people don't take it? advantage of that now. Our economy will change again. We'll get into a better situation. Rates might come down some. People will realize I still have to get kids in school. I still need a place to live. It's still a good investment. So when all that happens, and let's say six months from now, there's going to be more buyers in the market and those houses are going to go up and they're going to be in competition and they're going to be saying, why didn't I buy when I should have? You can always, what they say in mortgage, what is it, marry the house, date the rate. So the interest rate will be what it is today, but refinance when they come down again, you know, down the road. So it's really a

good time to buy. And so even though we're experiencing this right now like we've never before, it is a good time to buy. I am predicting that the current Fed chair ends in May of 2026. And so I'm predicting that we're going to see a summer in 2026 of lowering interest rates. And if that were to be the case, then you can predictably predict that, predictably predict. That makes sense. You can predict that prices will then rise. You know, it's a direct correlation. And so as Debbie just mentioned, you know, depending on when you're listening to this, that you can, you know, buy now and refinance later.

But you can't do it the other way around, right? You know, you can't, you know, I guess you can you do that the other way around? Somebody help me out. I need some coffee today. Anyways, so when you buy now, then the interest rates go down and that's predictable, then the rate, you know, the prices are most likely to go up. Debbie, let's go back to change. So you talked about change economically in the marketplace. What have you seen change in the industry, like, from like you as a real estate agent,

as a professional. What have you seen change that's different today? I mean, you talked about earlier about like you were doing advertisement before Craigslist. Well, we're after Craigslist now, right? So not only, you know, like that whole thing, that whole Craigslist thing sort of came and went, you know, tell us what, what have you seen in changes? Well, let me just run it through my career. So there wasn't an MLS to search properties when I started. We were, that was just kind of starting. I mean, they're, good or bad, they're, they're becoming an MLS, good or bad. Oh, wait, so good. I don't know how people in Europe do it without an MLS.

We won't even go to European state. But we didn't have the internet. We didn't have Google. Okay. Good or bad for the industry. Good, a way to communicate. Although, it's good to have email and we didn't have texting. I'll tell you that texting story in a minute.

But it's good to have email and texting, but it's harder to build relationships. Because I'm seeing you now, even though I don't know where you live. I know who you are. I know what you look like. I can see you. So we're having a nice conversation of someone I'll remember. But when you email and text, you're in and you're out. So I spend a lot of time sending cards.

So people will have, it's usually some photograph of where they're from maybe or something of interest to them. and then a photo of me and my team, just so you can remember me because we were meeting a lot of people, but we're not seeing people in person. So anyway, then texting came along. I did a whole deal with the client, didn't know what texting was.

Later, I found something in my phone, which I didn't know what it was, and that was a text message from that client. And I'm like, thankful she didn't fire me because I wasn't responding because I didn't know what text messaging was. But yes, it's good to have you. No key of phones where you have you. I hit like the one, like two times to get to the B. I have no idea.

Oh, my God. I mean, it is good to have texting and in emailing. But it's also, I just want to just impress upon everyone. Picking up the phone is very important to have a conversation with people because we can't answer every single real estate or whatever industry you're in. It sometimes takes a little more finesse and a little more Q&A back and forth for the client to understand. So don't hide behind that. You know, DocuSign, of course, has been great.

You can be anywhere and you can, you know, you can do a deal. You know, you just like when I'm in L.A. And Adam shows a house and then I'm, you know, writing the offer. You can be anywhere. And all the different tools we have, except for we have gotten inundated with so many tools and so many people selling us, trying to sell us something. It really is time consuming and it's hard to weed out what the good stuff is from the bad.

So it's a little agents are for sure. a little bit on overload from being hit up by so many things. So what I think in my head you have to go back to are the pillars, the pillars of building relationships, getting in front of people, keeping top of mind. But really engagement is number one. And then of course, all the other things, open houses and being seen and being present and building your community.

But you really need to remember it's we're in the relationship business. You've got many clients through, you know, you know, major life changes from divorce to relocation and starting over. What do you think makes real estate such a personal and emotional journey? And this is where I say AI cannot take over and take over a real estate agent, at least, is that right now I'm working with a 96-year-old woman. She lied to me. She told me she was 85.

I busted her when we were at the retirement community, and the manager was asking her questions for her application. and I said, what did you say, Velma? I said, what did you just say? You're 96? You didn't tell me that. Listen, when you're 96, you have permission to lie about your age. I'm just saying. Oh, gosh. But then it made me worry. I'm a total mother. So then I'm like, oh, God, and she's living alone. We've got to get her into this community home. Anyway, so I have been spending, I mean, for the last 10 years. I rented one of her properties years ago, but then when I moved to this area where I live. She must have seen me at an open house. So we reconnected just, you know,

and we'd go to lunch once a month and spend time. Well, over now about the last 10 or 15 years of just being friends, I'm helping her now to transition and downsize. And it has been so stressful for her. I've introduced her to a financial planner. I had to have a trust attorney read her trust to her. I mean, I'm the realtor. I have experts around me, but I don't do all of that. So I connect her with all the right people. She refused to work with a packing and moving company. She wants to sort through every last item of hers. I've gone probably seven times to sell books with her where she has her books packed up. We drive into Berkeley. She gets her little trolley. She takes them in and she might make $10 or $15. And this is like what we do week to week

to week. We're just doing this with her CDs. And it's super stressful. But I, been spending a lot of time with her and she's now nervous that she's moving in. I know when she gets in though, she's going to like it because when we it's she's forgets when we go there and we're around the people and she's saying hi to the people, she's having a good experience. But then she goes home and she's like, I'm not going to like it there. So it's just a big change. Yeah. Big change especially for, I mean, no matter what age, it's moving is a big change for anyone. But I take pride in helping people through that. And no way I would, you know, could spend the kind of time that I spend on helping people, you know, just listening to them and helping them through it and driving them around or whatever it takes or introducing me to them to the right people that they need.

They don't even know what they need until I'm hearing them talk about something. I then I'll say, oh, you need to speak to blah, blah, blah. So anyway. What goes about the mindset and emotion method. I know you wrote a book on or you're finishing up a book. So mindset and emotion method, what is that? This is my fifth book. This is a book that I just really, really want to get out there.

What I did was, so it's called the working title. Well, the whole method is it's called the mindset and motion method. And what I did was I reversed engineered everything I've done in my life. So I always want to help people conquer their goals. It's possible if people want to really learn and focus and do the work. So it's the first thing is you have to have a goal. You have to dream, whatever it is, have a goal. Like right now, if you're listening, grab a paper and write five things that you want to do.

What are your goals? What are your dreams? But don't limit yourself saying, oh gosh, how am I going to get there? Write it down. Don't you see the picture of my yacht in the background? That's my soon-to-be yacht. So I'm manifesting right now. I've got a Viking boat right behind this screen.

It's like right behind your head right now. So I've got a Viking boat up there for my manifestation. All right. Great. Love it. A few million dollars. So you have to believe it. You really have to believe that it can happen.

Don't let practicality get in the way, but believe it. Then you have to internalize it. You really have to feel it and just really live with it. And then you have to share it. But share it with supportive people. Do not share it with people who are going to be naysayers or going to question your goal. That it's only with supportive. of people, and I'm going to give you an example in a minute. And then you have to activate. You've got to do

the work. I've coached many people and they want, they have all those other things, but when they get to the activate, they don't want to do the work. So sometimes I save them from maybe spending a lot of money. I was helping someone with who wanted to launch a product. And we worked side by side together, loved being with her. She loved being with me. And by the time it was time for her to activate after like two months, there were the things she didn't want to do. And so, you know, I saved her a lot of money because if she did put all the money into what and then not do the work, it would have been a waste of time. Anyway, so I let's talk about what I did before I turned 60 last year. I think it was. I was about to turn 60 and it was right before that in the December of 24. My son and my family,

we were sitting in St. Bartz at a beach club playing dominoes and listening to music and having a great time. And my son comes out, he was 28 at the time or 27, and he said, I'm going to go to the military. I'm going to go to O Officer Candidate School. And I was like, what's that? And he's like, the military, the Marines. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, I felt like I was having an out-of-body experience. We've never, just where we're from or our history, we just don't have anyone in the military. Thankful for them for sure, but that's not been part of our family or growing up. So anyway, I was, of course, like two seconds later, I started crying and I'm like, oh my God, he's going to die. And I was just like, you know, total mom panicking. And then of course,

I was like, well, I have to be supportive and stuff. So what I did was I immersed myself in the Navy Seals, books, YouTube. I learned I covered to cover officer Canada school went through that website. Like I've never gone through a website before. I was just immersed myself. I listened to a book on Audible, which at the time, I actually did not know who this person was. He was, he's super famous. I did not know that. I said, I'm going to go to the hardest of the hardest. I'm going to learn how does a Navy SEAL have that mindset. It's got to be, there's something. Not everyone, you have to have a mindset to go out there and all of a sudden you change who, you know, like you're going to be shot at. Like, it's, you have to endure these

horrible conditions and things. So it was December 31st and I said, oh, when I asked Chase, why are you doing this? And he said, well, I want a challenge. And I said to him, is that because you watch that show the challenge with your sister all this time where it's this crazy show where they do crazy things. And he said, no, I want to challenge myself. I go, okay, I don't really understand what that means. So I tried to, like, in my mind, like, understand what that meant. So I just one day put on my tennis shoes on December 31st, 2024, and ran out the door and ran two miles and listening to music and just going, just trying to absorb the whole thing. And then I decided I'm going to run a race. So I was going to run a race. So I was going to run a

5K, then I decided to run a 10K. And before Chase left for officer candidate school, I said, come do the race with me. I said, I'll, you know, if I can only run 5K, I'll run 5K. If not, I'll run a 10K. It doesn't matter. Well, I ran the 10K. And then after that, I did another one throughout the year. I did three Spartan races. I did a half marathon trail run. And then one of the things I did not tell anyone was, you know, I'm going to do a half marathon by the time on 60. And then by that March, and I remember I just started running in January and actually I wasn't really training. I do two miles here and there. By February, early February, I said, I'm going to run the marathon. Why bother with a half? I'll just run the hole. Like if I can't do it,

I won't do it. But that's what I'm going to do. So I signed up. Didn't tell anyone because people were going to say, oh, you're going to be 60. Oh, you don't even work out. Oh, you don't even, like, do you even know what it means to run a marathon? Of course, I knew nothing. But I, I don't want to tell them because in my mind, it was mindset. If the military people and anyone in those, you know, who's a normal human being and goes in and is in war and does all these things, like there's no way. There's got to be its mindset. So I wanted to prove it. And the book I read was, you can't hurt me by, what's his name?

David, David something. Yeah. David Goggins. Yeah. Yeah. I immersed myself in that. And that was like, that guy should have been dead. like the officers or the higher ups hated him.

And he started as a 300 pound man. And then he was just like crazy. So, and again, I didn't know who he was at the time. And I was listening to this story and I'm like, this is insane. This is mindset. I could do this. Like I had a really great upbringing.

I'm healthy. I'm like, there's nothing that could stop me. If that freaking guy could do that and coming from his shit background. So I told my husband in about a week or maybe, probably 10 days before, I said, you have to come to L.A. with me. I'm going to run the L.A. Marathon. He knows me, so he didn't question me. I said, don't tell anyone. I don't want to hear from anyone. I need to get to that starting line. And, you know, I don't want to have anyone negative in my head. And so, and that's why I say, share with supportive people. So as I was, he dropped me off at the train station, then from buses

took us to the start line out. There's his young man who was sitting next to me. He's like, oh, I just ran like the San Mateo Bridge the other day for my training and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, please don't ask me what I have done. I woke up for breakfast this morning. Oh, let me tell you what I ate the night before. I said, I'm not changing anything because I was superstitious. I had a Caesar salad with chicken. I had a couple glasses of wine.

I just had a normal, it wasn't a normal night for someone who was running. Actually, a friend was down there and he was having a party. So we went, I was having a glass of wine. We were going to go home early, but I was having a glass of wine. and this woman who was so thin and she looked at me and she, Adam said, oh, she's running the marathon tomorrow. And the woman looked at me and she's like, oh my God, you have to get home. She grabbed the wine. She's like, go home and have potato chips in your pockets. You need the salt. And she started like, like just downloading about what I was supposed to do. Anyway, so I got to the,

I got to the start line and it went off and I completed the race by about halfway through. I was actually about mile 18 and I was my husband came up to I didn't know if I was going to hurt my ankle I kind of hurt it so he said bring me an ace bandage just in case I can slip it on so I was up on sunset and and I was to the last holly when I was you know it wouldn't stop I was jogging I took the thing from him I was still great at 18 and then I continued on but after a couple more I was like to am I doing and in my mind I knew the whole like tray I knew the whole map so I'm like oh god I still have to go through Westwood and Brentwood and then come back to Century City. I was like, wow, that is going to, I mean, in a car, it takes long. I crossed the finish line. I burst into tears, not because it was like

really a goal of mine. It wasn't something like, oh, I really want to do this. I was doing it to prove a point, but I burst out into tears. I guess I was shocked that I had done it. And the only thing, well, I did have, the only thing that hurt was my upper thigh hurt because I had been pumping them for hours. Sure, sure. So anyway, what I say about that is mindset is so important and whatever it takes to get you in the right mindset, whether it's a book, whether it's something someone said, how could you be inspired? Look for that inspiration and then chart your path. But so it's the, you know, have that goal, believe it, internalize it, share it with supportive people and activate. You have to activate. Love it. And then one morning, you're,

sitting at the starting line of a marathon, two glasses of wine the previous night, and some potato chips for the salt, getting ready to run 26 some miles. Congratulations. What did you learn from that, Debbie? You can really do anything. You set your mind, too. I love it. I love it. So, that's a good way for us to end today. So you can do anything that you set your mind to. Debbie, how can someone get in touch with you? You can call me anytime. I will pick up that phone. Text first, so I know you're calling 510 414-6777 and Debbie DiMaggio.com, D-E-B-B-B-I, no E-N-D-E-N-D-B-E. I changed that in kindergarten, D-E-B-B-I-D-I, capital M-A-G-G-I-O, as in Joe DiMaggio, third cousin. So Debbie DiMaggio.com, thank you guys so much. This was always so fun to see you. And where do

you live? Do you live in Ohio? No. You live in Northern Virginia, right outside Washington, D.C. Okay. Debbie, thank you. so much for being a blessing and for being with us today. Audience, thank you for being a blessing, and I wish that you have the best of your life. Be grateful, make good choices to go help somebody, and God bless you. I love you today. This is Dan Rocheon, host of No Broke Months. Do you want consistent and predictable income with No Broke Months?

My new book, Teach to Sell, Why Top Performers Never Sell, and What They Do Instead, is being published early 2006 by Simon & Schuster. You can pre-order now at www. www. teach-to-sellbook.com and unlock over $10,000 of free bonus training. Don't wait, go to www.com and grab your copy today. That's teach-to-sellbook.com.