No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - A Republican congressman joins to talk January 6

Episode Date: July 9, 2021

An ExxonMobil lobbyist is caught revealing some closely guarded secrets on a recorded Zoom call, the effects of climate change are ravaging the US and Canada, and Pelosi decides to move forward with a House Select Committee to investigate the events of January 6. Our first Republican guest - Congressman Adam Kinzinger – joins to discuss that very committee and the future of his party. And Brian chats with the hosts of Swing Left’s podcast “How We Win,” Steve Pierson and Mariah Craven, about the Supreme Court decision limiting the Voting Rights Act even further and what Swing Left is doing ahead of 2022 and beyond.Donate to the Don't Be A Mitch fund: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dontbeamitchSign up for Indivisible’s Truth Brigade: https://act.indivisible.org/signup/indivisible-truth-brigadeWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CAhttps://www.briantylercohen.com/podcast/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we're going to talk about an Exxon mobile lobbyist caught revealing some horrific secrets on a recorded Zoom call, the effects of climate change ravaging the U.S. and Canada, and Pelosi's decision to move forward with the House Select Committee to investigate the events of January 6th. We have our first Republican guest, Congressman Adam Kinsinger, and we discuss that very commission and the future of his party. And I chat with the hosts of Swing Left's podcast, How We Win, Steve Pearson and Mariah Craven, about the Supreme Court's decision limiting the Voting Rights Act even further and what Swing Left is doing ahead of 2020. 22 and beyond. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So I want to start off with climate change because in just the last week or so, we've seen temperatures soaring across the country in the world. Last Sunday, Canada hit its highest

ever recorded temperature at 113 degrees. That record was broken only a day later at 116 degrees, and that record was broken a day after that at 121 degrees. Like, records aren't easily or often broken and never, never by eight degrees. An all-time record was reached in Oregon at 118 degrees. Spokane, Washington hit a record of 109. Portland reached 116. That was a record. Seattle hit 108, also a record. And Seattle sustained temperatures of over 100 degrees lasted three days, which is unprecedented. I could literally list out dozens and dozens and dozens of cities in the Pacific Northwest that hit record highs. And those temperatures are leading to fires breaking out. The town of Lytton and British Columbia Canada was destroyed, not unlike Paradise in California a few years earlier.

Just this weekend, hundreds of people were left dead amid the heat. Nearly 500 in British Columbia, 63 in Oregon, 20 in Washington, records being set every single day, all of it caused or exacerbated by climate change, which makes this news about ExxonMobil especially vile, especially depraved. Keith McCoy's a lobbyist for ExxonMobil. I thought he was talking to a job recruiter who wasn't so much a job recruiter as he was a member of Greenpeace, UK. And what we said was horrifying and explosive and, you know, the most cynical part of me would say not in the slightest bit surprising.

For example, in response to the fact that Exxon publicly supports a carbon tax, here's what McCoy's justification was. Nobody is going to propose a tax on all Americans. And the cynical side of me says, yeah, we kind of know that. But it gives us a talking point that we can say, well, what is Exxon mobile for? Well, we're for a carbon tax. What you said was just really interesting. so what so it's basically never going to happen right is the calculation yeah no it's not it's not it's not going to happen so this helps me understand a little bit why suddenly a lot of car a lot of

us oil majors are talking about a carbon tax because it sounds pretty uh well i i i i i i the cynical side of me they've got nothing else it's an easy talking point to say, look, I'm for a carbon tax. So that's the talking point. That is, in my mind, an effective advocacy tool. In other words, it's just a talking point that they deployed to give them cover while continuing to aggressively oppose other climate regulations. Like, they know it'll never happen.

And so that's why Exxon supports a carbon tax, because it's empty rhetoric and so they can get good press, all while knowing that they won't have to actually surrender anything. McCoy revealed how Exxon has fought against climate science. Did we aggressively fight against some of the science? Yes. Did we hide our science? Absolutely not.

Did we join some of these shadow groups to work against? some of the early efforts, yes, that's true. But there's nothing illegal about that. We were looking out for our investments. We were looking out for our shareholders. And you're not going to be able to just switch to battery operated vehicles or land for your electricity. And just having that conversation around why that's not possible in the next 10 years

is critically important to the work that we. do. So, and that's at every phase. That's, that's in the Senate, that's in the House, that's with the administration. Something like climate change, there's some forest fires, there's an increase of, you know, 0.001, you know, Celsius. That doesn't affect that people's everyday lives. Right, yeah, no, it doesn't affect people's everyday lives. 500 dead in British Columbia, 63 dead in Oregon, 20 dead in Washington, towns and cities wiped off the map. Droughts, hurricanes, wildfires, that is what these companies are perpetuating. That's what they're causing by virtue of entrenching our reliance on fossil fuels

and refusing to accept the science behind climate change, all in service of money. Not my words, his words, ExxonMobil's words, from the horse's mouth. And further putting this all into practice, here's what McCoy said about the latest infrastructure bill, which most Democrats were pushing to include major provisions on climate change. We're playing defense because President Biden's talking about this big infrastructure package, and he's going to pay for it by increasing corporate taxes. You stick the highways and bridges, then a lot of the negative stuff starts to come out.

Because... For you guys. Because there's a germaneus, right? That doesn't make any sense for a highway bill. Why would you put in something on emissions reductions on climate change to oil refineries in a highway bill? Why would you put in something on emissions reductions on climate change to oil refineries in a highway bill.

That's what McCoy just said. Now listen to this statement by Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn on Fox News. What they're wanting in their bill is money for the Green New Deal, money for unions, money for electric car subsidies. They want money for bike paths and hiking trails.

And what the American people want and certainly what Tennesseans want is to see money for roads and for bridges and interstates and railways and airports, they want to see money for broadband. But all of these other things, all of this that is human infrastructure, that does not belong in a surface transportation or an infrastructure bill. Yeah, sound familiar?

So that we're clear, it's the American Jobs Plan. And while infrastructure is the theme, jobs is the goal. But Republicans made up the idea that this is strictly a hard infrastructure package and then argued based on that false premise, using talking points sent down directly from corporate lobbyists whose sole objective is to enrich shareholders and their own bottom line. And by the way, while it's Republicans who overwhelmingly tow this line, let's not pretend for a second that it's only Republicans.

Who's the crucial guys for you? Well, Senator Capito, who's the ranking member of the environment of public works, Joe Manchin, I talk to his office every week. He is the kingmaker on this because he's a Democrat from West Virginia, which is a very conservative state, and he's not shy about sort of staking his claim early and completely changing the debate. So on the Democrat side, we look for the moderates on these issues.

So it's the mansions, it's the cinemas, it's the testers. Other ones that are talking about is Senator Coons, who's from Delaware, who has a very close relationship with Senator Biden. So we've been working with his office. As a matter of fact, our CEO is talking to him next Tuesday. Manchin, Cinema, Tester, Coons. Just a shameless display of corruption. While they're making the conscious decision

to trade in the future of this planet, their own children's and grandchildren's futures, all for a check, for a re-election check, even while admittedly denying the science, even while admittedly funding shadow groups to muddy the waters about the effects and impacts of climate change. And of course, Exxon CEO, Darren Woods, condemns McCoy's comments and called them,

quote, entirely inconsistent with our commitment to the environment, transparency, and what our employees and management team have worked towards since I became CEO four years ago. And look, coupled with the knowledge that their outward positions are predicated on supporting only what they know won't be possible, we know that this is complete bullshit.

The fact is that these temperatures are going to continue to spike. The storms are going to worsen, the death tolls will rise, and one day, probably in the not too distant future, people are going to look back to today when something could still be done about the worst existential crisis to ever face humanity and wonder what the fuck we were.

are thinking. If climate is not at the core of anything and everything we do, then we're making the conscious decision to allow these catastrophic events to continue. If climate's not at the core of every candidate we elect, of every position they stand for, of every policy they propose, then they're missing the plot. Like, in a way, I'm glad that we heard this recording, even with its almost comic book level villainy, because now we'll know just how little the posturing means, and we'll know exactly who to put pressure on, because all the campaign donations by ExxonMobil in the world won't mean anything if the people voting know that you're full of shit. Now, I want to switch gears to a different topic.

Nancy Pelosi's decided on moving forward with the House Select Committee to investigate the events of January 6th. The House voted 222 to 190 to create the panel, with only two Republicans voting to support it, Liz Cheney and Adam Kinsinger, who I'll be talking to in a moment. Those two Republicans are a pretty far cry from the 35 who'd originally supported the bipartisan commission. And yet, somehow, for those 35 people, they've decided now that. no committee is better than a House select committee,

even though they'd acknowledge that a committee was necessary. And, you know, of course it's because Republican leaderships had time to ramp up the pressure and beat them back. But the forward-facing excuse is that it'll be too partisan. In other words, because their own party blocked a bipartisan commission, the obvious answer here is to let Trump off the hook by having no commission at all. That's the logic here. Democrats offered a fully bipartisan solution.

Republicans block it. And then even those members of the GOP who acknowledge that investigation was warranted, decide to reward the obstructionist by voting for zero accountability. Tell me how that makes sense. Now, Kevin McCarthy, House Minority Leader, said, quote, it seems pretty political to me, which, again, is a hell of a thing to claim after his party voted against the bipartisan commission. And especially ironic in the wake of reporting that McCarthy had threatened to strip Republican

members of committee assignments if they accept an offer from Pelosi to serve on the commission. Why? Because McCarthy needs it to look as partisan as possible so that he, and Trump and the rest of his party can undermine it as what else, but a partisan witch hunt. But sure, what the Democrats are doing seems pretty political. Got it. And of course, we'll see if McCarthy's threat actually comes to pass, considering Pelosi has appointed Republican Liz Cheney to the commission.

She joins seven other members chosen by Pelosi, all Democrats, who include Adam Schiff, Benny Thompson, Zoe Lofgren, Pete Aguilar, Stephanie Murphy, Elaine Loria, and Jamie Raskin, who's been on this show twice now. There are still five slots that McCarthy can fill in, consultation with Pelosi, meaning that she can veto his selections, which probably bodes well if you don't want to be subjected to Jim Jordan ranting about how we shouldn't be wasting time investigating an insurrection when critical race theory is the real enemy here. But with that said, I discuss this very issue and more with Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger.

Today we've got the Republican Congressman from Illinois 16th Congressional District. Adam Kinzinger, thanks for coming on. Yeah, what's up? First of all, a lot of credit for you for coming on to do the show. You're the first Republican that I've interviewed, you know, a lot of the left and right exist in separate media ecosystems. And I know you didn't have to do this, so I do appreciate it. Yeah, you bet. So the House has voted to establish a January 6th commission by a vote of 222 to 190. You and Liz Cheney were the only Republicans to vote in favor of it.

And so clearly the point from your colleagues is to be able to undermine the commission's legitimacy from the get-go. So what do you say to those members of your own party who've already dismissed the January 6th commission as, you know, a partisan witch hunt? Well, I mean, you know, I, this is why I've been hopeful that we could do the bipartisan commission that we voted for out of the House. They got blocked in the Senate. And this is why I tell my Democratic colleagues, like, do not do, you know, basically try not to make this partisan. It'll be partisan.

And, you know, my side will definitely try to discredit it, but just try to stay above board. Because the thing I'll say to my colleagues on my side is like, look, you know, if we'd have just admitted after January 6th, what happened? took a full inventory of it. We could be moving on now. We could be saying, look, let's never let that happen again. Now it's time to deal with issues. But, you know, you hear Tucker Carlson say it's the FBI. You still have people out there basically saying this thing never existed. And we had the best shot for a fair shot at the bipartisan commission that failed. This is the last opportunity. So I tell them, you know, look, if you didn't vote for the January 6th thing, then you really have no reason to blame, you know, me or Liz for voting for this.

we need answers. Because every day that goes by without answers, we'll get to answers ultimately through these court cases. But every day that goes by, in the meantime, a new conspiracy theory is created. Yeah. Yeah. Would you want to serve on the commission? I don't really want to, but, you know, if ask, I'd consider it. I haven't thought a ton about it because, you know, I haven't been asked. But if it's, you know, again, if it comes before me and I consider an important part of what I'm doing here in my duty, then I certainly wouldn't say no outright. Do you think that Trump should testify? And is that something that you would push for if you were on the commission? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, to an extent, I think if we needed him to,

yes, I think it's not important to necessarily just bring him in front of the committee, you know, for the show of it or anything. If we can get to the information through other people, he is still a former president, regardless of how you feel about him. But we do need answers. you know, I think there's a lot of people that know what Donald Trump was doing while the insurrection was occurring. There's a lot of people that know, you know, was he told to send the National Guard and he never made a call? You know, there's a lot of information that I think Kevin McCarthy can provide. So I think bringing as many people before us as we can, and I'd like to do, yeah, I'd like it to be done a little behind closed

doors as much as we can to keep the spectacle of it, but at the same time, you know, people have a right to see. So I want to switch gears. a little bit here. Why are you still a Republican? You know, you've been clear about the party's behavior as it relates to Trump, to the insurrection, to the non-existent fraud in the 2020 election. You know, this is a party that largely can't even admit that a fact is a fact. Like, we're supposed to be debating taxes and the GOP can't even acknowledge that the sky is blue. And the last person who actually stuck her neck out and deigned to acknowledge objective reality got banished from leadership. So why not leave? I think it's a couple of things.

So if I left, there wouldn't be, you know, me and Liz. It would just be Liz. And then if she left, it would be nobody standing up and telling the truth. That's easy to isolate us and say, we're crazy when it's only two of us. But I think that's the first part is people need to tell the truth. They need to hear it, particularly in our party. The other thing is, I really have been consistent in what I believe. Like, I'm not the one that's changed over the last 10 years.

I was a Republican far before Donald Trump. And so I think it's a party worth fighting. for because I think it's realistic to assume that the Republican Party is going to be around for a while. And the question is, what's that form? Now, if this continues to go down the road and get worse and become more conspiratorial driven, you know, at that point, there's a decision I'll have to make. But I think it would be wrong of me to just walk away now without really giving it a fight. And that's the important thing to do. Donald Trump's only been out of office now for seven months, seems like forever, or it seems like no time at all, depends on your perspective.

You know, and so we have to, we have this limited window to try to pull people back that have been lied to and abused, and that's most of the Republican base. You had spoken about, like, the Republican Party more broadly, and, you know, this, this idea of Republican principles, at what point do they stop being Republican principles if 99% of Republicans don't actually espouse them? Like, we hear about fiscal responsibility, and yet the debt grew by $7.8 trillion during the last Republican administration, we hear about states' rights, and yet a number of Republicans tried to file a lawsuit to overturn election results in a bunch of states that voted for Biden. We hear about family values, and yet the

party is led by a guy who's paid more money in hush money payments than most people make in a decade. So how long can Republicans continue to claim that they stand for values that they don't actually live by? Yeah, I'm not sure how much longer. I think your point's accurate. it. You know, when I think of Republican values, I think of the party that I joined, you know, the party that was about a strong defense, you know, fiscal responsibility, et cetera, obviously we have not followed through on that largely as a party. And that's why I think the fight is to try to bring it back. But I agree with you. I think it's hard to really pinpoint nowadays what it is Republican. Republicanism is besides like kind of on the left and anti-wokism and whatever

the latest culture war is. And we have to have a party. that's not about division in uniting. And, you know, there may be a day where the party becomes a lost hope. I hope that doesn't happen, but, you know, we'll have to see. You know, you have someone like Trump who's being rewarded for spreading the big lie

by right-wing media, by Republican leadership, by efforts to block the January 6th Commission like we just spoke about, by Republicans insisting that there were irregularities in the last election, by, you know, these crackpot audits like the one we're seeing in Arizona. If Republicans know that the only pushback

they're going to get from people like you and Liz Cheney is the equivalent of a strongly worded letter, why would they change their behavior? Like, there's no actual threat from those of you who acknowledge objective reality, but why not take action to actually give yourselves leverage? Yeah, the problem is there's just not, there's really no options out there.

I mean, the only action we have, what would be to leave the party or go independent, and honestly, they'd probably be happy with that. Because every time we say anything, you know, it makes it uncomfortable for some of these people because they'll be on a meeting and somebody says, Kinsinger says the election wasn't stolen. And then they have to, the vast majority of them,

knowingly dishonestly, counter that. And it makes it uncomfortable for them. I think, you know, speaking out is probably the most important thing. Because, again, it's constantly putting into that field of vision, particularly of Republican voters who are in a kind of a media silo, the alternate opinion. If we left, that would actually just make it far easier for them and probably be a reward instead of a Republican voters,

instead of a punishment. So, but there's no way we can actually compel any kind of action because we just don't have the numbers right now. Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. Do you believe that a Republican-controlled Congress would allow a Democratic nominee for president who wins in 2024 to take office? It's a question I've actually asked myself, because my ultimate concern by the objecting to the election, you know, not even talking about what happened on the insurrection is, okay, what happens next time? You know, I've been out here when you have these pushes that just grow legs because it's all over the internet. Everybody jumps on board. That's what you saw with January 6th. I think initially maybe 10 members were going to oppose certification and

then it grew to 138 because they didn't want to have to say that they weren't going to. And so what happens next election? Does that become the floor baseline of resistance, right? Does that become, well, you have to object to the election, and then we have to step it up even more. And quite honestly, I wouldn't blame the Democrats if they did the same thing. Because the thing in Washington, D.C. is once a kind of a norm or a standard is broken, it never comes back. And that's why I think it's so important to arrest this now to be clear-eyed about it. And I think ultimately, you know, we're going to be able to expose all this. but it's certainly a dark moment right now, seemingly.

Since you've bucked the party on these issues, you know, from Trump to the capital insurrection, what's the response been like in your district? And if it has been positive, what does that tell you about the ability for Republicans to not have to be lemmings for Donald Trump? So I've always been fairly independent. And, you know, voting on different things and still winning primaries very big, you know, was always interesting. And that, to me, was always a lesson to others.

Like you don't have to be in this kind of the monolithic right wing blob, you know, blob, right? Whatever, you know, Rush Limbaugh says at the moment, this is something different. So the base is actually pretty ticked off at me. And, you know, you see that in any polling around the country. I don't have polling from my district because the district's going to change. But, you know, 30% of Republicans get the, get the thing. They understand what's going on. 70% are watching people like Tucker Carlson compellingly saying it's the FBI because,

you know, all you have to do is listen and it sounds compelling until they actually research it. But the district itself, we can sometimes get in this trap of thinking of the district is just our base. The district itself is pretty happy with what I'm doing and saying, but the base isn't. The problem is in the system, you got to get through a primary. With that said, do you plan on running for the house or running for different office in 2022 or beyond? Yeah, my intention is to run for reelection in the house. I had actually looked at the possibility of running statewide, but after January 6th, really kind of my focus. was just defending the party.

And I think, you know, if you run in any other office or statewide, you'll be expected to get through a primary by reciting the same kind of garbage you're seeing everywhere. And I just refuse to do that. You know, so for me, every decision every day is literally day by day, which it's rare for a politician that doesn't have a 10-year plan in his or her mind. But I really don't. My thing is, you know, every day is a battle that's worth fighting and defending.

and we'll just see what leads, what the next thing is. Well, Congressman, again, thank you for coming on. You know, I know that we likely don't agree on policy, but you get full credit for having a spine when it comes to the anti-democratic behavior that we're seeing right now. So thank you. You bet. Let me just say, look, people should disagree.

If we didn't have disagreement, we would not have a healthy democracy. The problem now, the number one issue we all have to fight is an erosion of our democracy, because if that continues to happen, we won't have a right to disagree because the people in power will just stop your ability to have a different opinion. Thanks again to Adam Kinzinger. Next up, I'm joined by the co-hosts of Swing Left's podcast, How We Win, Steve Pearson and Mariah Craven. Welcome.

Thank you so much. Thanks, BTC. Great to be here. Thank you. So we're going to talk about Swing Left and the work that you guys are doing. But first, I did want to get your take on the latest Supreme Court decision. limiting the Voting Rights Act even further. So basically, the court ruled six to three along partisan lines

against blocking voter restrictions that would have a disproportionate impact on minority voters. There was one quote that I thought was especially telling from one of the conservative justices where he said, quote, where a state provides multiple ways to vote, any burden imposed on voters who choose one of the available options cannot be evaluated without also taking into account the other available means.

In other words, voter suppression is, okay because you can still figure it out some other way right so do you think that this will be enough to get these Democratic holdouts to budge on the filibuster or even amid the assault on voting rights in broad daylight that they're still going to defer to protecting the institutions of the Senate surprise surprise that the court that has the stolen seats that the Republicans got would rule in favor of Republicans trying to suppress the vote right to continue to entrench the very system that got them on the bench in the first place.

Exactly. We all saw this coming, but it's hard to watch it actually unfold. I love the question that you've set up. I don't know that this is going to motivate anyone around the filibuster issue. I think that they're going to cling to not just tradition, but kind of, I think that some folks are thinking, you know, there but for the grace of God go I type situation. I'm not convinced that this is going to change anything. in that regard, but I do think it might motivate some people to say, listen, the only

thing standing between voters and Republicans trying to suppress the vote is now the federal government. So maybe we can get some legislation passed. Yeah. I mean, it's, as we're recording this, I haven't heard anything from the two Republican senators on how they feel about this ruling that obviously is centered around the laws that were passed in Arizona. Cinema does seem pretty dug in on her opposition to reforming the filibuster. And she seems to not care what anyone else thinks about that. But this strikes them right where they live. So I'll be interested to hear those statements.

But this and everything else just, you know, for me, reinforces like how it, how important it is that we stay engaged in our work to reach out. to voters because we have a lot to overcome. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just harkening back to something that Mariah had said, in terms of this being a method to get people engaged, you know, we've, we do have reason to believe based on recent history that this is the kind of thing that does get people motivated. You look at in Wisconsin when they had that Supreme Court race and they tried to make it

so that there was only in person voting right in the heart of the pandemic. And Republicans tried to do that to salvage that one. seat on the court and they ended up losing that race. Same thing in Georgia. I mean, that entire race was predicated on this idea that Republicans trying to rig the system by saying that the election was fraudulent and that, you know, I mean, the whole thing was predicated on lies about this election. Right. And they ended up losing both of those seats in a red state, you know? So with that said, I mean, that can't, that can't be enough. We can't just keep hoping that as Republicans keep continuing to do worse and worse and worse things,

that that's going to be, that we'll just have to rely on enthusiasm as a result of that, because at some point, what they're doing is going to eventually start to, you know, compensate for even the high turnout, even the engagement. Yeah, it's a, it's a great point. I mean, you raise the most money and turn out the most voters when you have the scariest boogeyman coming after you. That means that we have to do. do the work to make voting and engaging around issues and elections, something that people do all the time, not just when they're fearful or something is going to be taken away from them. The best and worst part of the Trump administration was we'd never seen so much engagement

in the political and campaign world because, you know, it was that wake-up call that got everybody motivated. Now the challenge is keeping the momentum. I'll just add to that. We have on our show, we do a reason for hope segment every week. And a couple of weeks ago, I talked about the Supreme Court. Not that I have a whole lot of hope in the Supreme Court and this just reinforces that, but it was about them upholding the ACA and all the great work that activists have done to protect the ACA. And then I think it was last week, the week before, I was talking about Merrick Garland and the lawsuit against Georgia, the Justice Department put out. and how that gave me some hope. This Supreme Court decision is going to make it a lot harder for that lawsuit to go forward, for sure. So shame on me for putting anything hopeful into this Supreme Court, but, Steve, what have you done? I remember when you said that I was like, what? I was like, hear me out.

Let me talk this through. It's a bold take, the reason for hope being a 6-3 conservative court. Nothing like pinning our hopes on Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and Amy Coney Barrett. I clearly don't know what I'm talking about. Well, look, if this tells us anything, it's that it's not enough to just sit here and hope that the courts are going to do what's right or hope that elected officials are going to do what's right. You guys recently spoke with Jamie Harrison about his 10-year plan to kind of take matters into our own hands. Can you walk us through what that conversation was like?

It was a great conversation about what the DNC's plan is. is for the next 10 years. And this is something that I feel like we're seeing with a lot of democratic and progressive organizations, they're taking a step back to strategize long term. And the most exciting part of their 10-year plan, I think, is this investment in all 50 states. So, you know, if you listen to this episode of the podcast that just came out on how we win, Mr. Harrison or he's he's had to call him Jamie so I'm going to call him Jamie so chair Harris so Jamie says you know the the DNC for a while got away from supporting the local state parties and we saw the impact of that you know in 2016 when there was no investment in these parties they didn't have the the support and the means to run a good ground game and as a result weren't able to turn out as many voters as usual.

We saw the opposite of that happened in the 2018 midterms when there was all this energy and money and volunteerism pouring into local parties and they had folks knocking on doors and putting out flyers and doing ads and look what happened as a result. So the idea now is that the DNC is going to invest something like $23 million into local democratic efforts, which is you all are going to see a huge difference in your home states because of this. Yeah. And you would imagine that these local organizations are going to have a much better feel for what actually works in each of these specific states or districts than like, than the, you know, the behemoth that is the national DNC. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the secret sauce that we've seen work really well for Democrats has been tapping into these local organizations that are on the ground, primarily led by

people of color or indigenous people, organizers in Georgia and Arizona and Texas, and we saw it in Virginia when they won the trifecta there. It's a long-term strategy for building our democratic power. And when we support those organizations that are there year-round, that's how we build our power and that's how we win. And so I was really excited to hear Jamie talk about, it feels so name-droppy when I say it that way. When I hear Jamie talking about his 10-year strategy, it's really exciting to me because Swing Left just put out our 10-year strategy,

which aligns really well with that. And it involves working on gubernatorial races for the first time, where we have a chance to push back on some of these Republican-led legislatures by having a Democrat in the governor chair and investing long-term in these state houses so that when the next redistricting opportunity comes around, we're in a stronger position to take back those states and draw some fair lines and push back against all this voter suppression. And we just see, obviously, this morning, how difficult that task is

and how important it is that we all stay engaged year-round. You know, the important thing about those gubernatorial elections, too, is like we're seeing in these state legislatures, these Republican state legislatures all across the country that the governors are really the only check against these far right radical legislatures in places like Pennsylvania, in places like, you know, North Carolina. So, so thank God that we have people like Tom Wolfe in Pennsylvania vetoing legislation that would otherwise turn, turn PA into into another Georgia or Florida. or Texas, you know? Right. Yeah, exactly. And I think another, another common thread that we're hearing about these long-term plans is this is, of course, it's about building a strong bench and getting great people elected. But the big picture idea is that this is about protecting our democracy. This isn't just about participating in an election, you know, the six, the last six weeks before election day. This is about making sure that our rights and our country are protected. And I really

am drawn to that sort of big picture idea. So I know that this is a long-term plan. And I mean, it's such a necessary and good idea. And by the way, we are, you know, I've spoke with Amanda Littman who co-founded Run for something. And she's been very adamant about the fact that, you know, Republicans are on year 40 of a 40-year plan, and we're on year four, you know? Yeah. So, and the fruits of their labor have already borne out. Like, we're just, you know, we're on this constant track of playing defense against these Republicans from all these local races all the way up.

So I'm really, you know, heartened and encouraged to hear that this long-term strategy from the DNC, you know, from the very top all the way to the, to these great activist organizations like you guys are all focused on these long-term things. But I know, you know, obviously we have a five alarm fire right in front of us in terms of 2022. So what are your goals for 2022 specifically? They actually start in 2021 because they start with Virginia, which is, you know, coming up soon. And, you know, we know how hard won that trifecta in Virginia was. And we also know all the great legislation that they've been able to pass there that affect

not just Virginia, but it's affected the entire country, too. It's refreshing to see a state actually passing laws to make it easier for people to vote instead of restricting access to the ballot. So, you know, it's just essential that we hold on to that trifecta. And that's also a bellwether for the enthusiasm and the volunteer engagement that we have coming into the midterms, too. Virginia always acts like that. So we really want people to get involved in Virginia. you, we have weekends of action starting the weekend after this. You can go to swing left

dot org and sign up for an event or sign up with a group or just plug in online, however you want to get involved. It's our return to in-person contact. There's actually going to be some canvassing. That's really exciting. Maybe for people who didn't want to knock on doors before, maybe they'll just be so excited to get outside that they'll actually do it, like start knocking on doors with us. That would be pretty dope. And by the way, I should just mention that all of the, all of the wins that we had, you know, in this in this previous election cycle, I mean, getting Donald Trump out of office, making him one of the first presidents and, you know, in decades to be a one term president. That was all done without any of that. You know, Democrats largely avoided canvassing. They, they, you know, they were able to forego one of their, one of their most effective tools, you know, in deference to public health, which was the right thing to do. But Republicans didn't. And yet still, you know, obviously there's a lot, you know, we, we, We did lose seats in the House and, you know, who knows how the Senate would have turned out. But, yeah, the state house is that we were working on.

We really wanted to grab a hold of some of those so we could have a better grasp of the redistricting process. And that was a disappointment. But, you know, every time we're competitive and we reach out to voters and we, you know, increased turnout in these red, purple states, we're building that power base for Democrats and we're building the scaffolding for future elections. So all that works important. And it's a great point. We had historic volunteer engagement in the middle of a global pandemic, which led to historic voter turnout in this election. And so, like, I, as you know, because I'm the idiot who was throwing SCOTUS into my reason for hope segment.

But I'm a very optimistic person. But I know that we can overcome these deficits if we all get involved. But it is going to take us all showing up to reach out to voters because we have a lot of voter contact, voter education that we have to do to overcome these deficits. Yeah. And we talk every week on the podcast about actions that people can take, like Steve was saying, we were starting up in-person actions again. But we're going to keep doing the virtual stuff as well. So I think that's actually a positive. It is harder to connect with voters that way. But for some. you know, volunteers, that might be the only way that we can get them engaged and you never know who they might reach on the phone or on social media or with one of the millions of letters that we're sending out. So lots of options as people are thinking about their own

personal strategies. Well, I want to ask one more question. Clearly, after this past year, people are tired of campaigns. I mean, the 2020 campaign and the election and the subsequent an insurrection and all of the rest of that bullshit that followed really wore people down. I love all the emails and texts I get every day. I mean, you're talking to two political nerds who are like, the head of the D&C said, we call him by his first name. Well, look, with a group like Swing Left, with an organization like Swing Left, how do you reconcile having to jump right back into campaign mode for 2022 with the fact that there might be a lot

of campaign fatigue out there? I'll jump in real quick on that. because first of all, we want people to rest if they need to rest. Like this is, you know, when we're talking about a 10-year plan, when we're talking about the importance of being involved in civics and doing the work of a citizen year-round, then that means you've got to pace yourself a little bit, right? And not go full bore all the time.

So if you need to step back and take a nap, hydrate, do all that stuff, then absolutely do that. But what we're seeing from our groups, what we're seeing from our volunteers is actually still a lot of enthusiasm. I mean, people aren't saying, God, I'm tired of working in elections. They're like, what's next? What do we do? They're thrilled to see that we have a new direction. They want to work on Florida.

I think the reason for that is people who get involved in campaigns and start volunteering and become part of this community of activists, These are, it's an awesome community to be a part of. And it's so fulfilling, not just because it's important work and we're saving democracy, but it's great for your own sanity, for your own peace of mind, to know that you're able to make an impact and make a contribution. So I'm actually seeing people who are still raring to go. That's very encouraging. I don't know, we need, there's always going to be fatigue. So, you know, definitely pace yourself.

But, you know, there's lots of important work to be done. I would also recommend that people kind of try things out and, you know, find, find what their jam is. Because when you find the right fit, it becomes enjoyable. And like Steve was saying, you build a community. And this is a group of people that you get to hang out with every Saturday and knock on doors and go have a drink afterwards, which is, you know, I saw that plenty. Or people that you hop on Zoom with, you know, every Thursday evening and write letters together. And, you know, that building a community and seeing the impact and the results of your work

can be energizing for some. Yeah. I think, I think, too, I mean, look, like a lot of people don't want to see all of their hard-fought wins get overturned or just, or be for not. I mean, like, the 2020 election was obviously massively important. It was the most important election arguably in American history. But like, you know, it could, so much of that can be undone in just two years. I think a lot of people for all the time and energy and blood, sweat and tears that they put into it in 2020,

don't want to see that just undone in 2022 by virtue of, you know, getting shalacked in the House of the Senate and basically giving Republicans an avenue to then allow the next election to be overturned by a Republican Party who's already broadcast that that's their intention. Yeah, every election from here on out is the most important election of our lives. And I know that that sounds like hyperbole because it is what every campaign says, you know, forever. But it's really true. I mean, we can't go back. When we see, you know, Trump may be gone, but this is the party of Trump. The GOP has gone off the rails.

I don't need to tell Brian Tyler Cohen this because you do a great job of spelling this out every single day. You know, we cannot let our guard down and let them slip back into power because the results will be even more devastating. than what we were four years ago. You know, ironically enough, even in the conversation I just had with Adam Kinsinger, even he said that a major worry of his is that this is the new norm, that people will have adapted to this kind of thing where you deny the legitimacy of the election results, and then it just gets worse. You, like, build upon all of the bad things that have happened before,

and that just becomes the norm for these Republicans. And so next time, of course, they're going to deny the legitimacy of the election. So, you know, this is just something to keep, in the back of our minds when we move forward, that it's not like, okay, we've defeated Trumpism, we've defeated these authoritarian tactics. It's all good, we can move forward in our happy democracy. If even a Republican is willing to admit

that that's the Republican intention, then that's definitely something that we should keep at top of mind. Yeah, it can't be the norm. Absolutely cannot be. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you for the work that you're doing. And for anyone listening, take a listen

to Swing Left's podcast, How We Win. Thanks, Brian. Thank you so much. Thanks again to Mariah and Steve. And finally, the Don't Be a Mitch fund has passed $370,000. We're coming dangerously close to our halfway point, which, you know, since we have nine groups and the goal is $100,000 per group, is $450,000. So if you plan on donating in the 2022 cycle anyway and you recognize that the way we flip

Georgia was to engage people early, please consider donating to this fund. This is how we get people engaged and registered. Like, I know a lot of politics today can make you feel helpless, but this is how you can make a difference. This is how you can help. This is how you can support the people on the ground doing the work. Okay, that's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, interviews captured and edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nicholas Nicotera, and recorded in Los Angeles, California. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe

on your preferred podcast app. Feel free to leave a five-star rating and a review, and check out Briantylercoen.com for links to all of my other channels. Thank you.