No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Beto O'Rourke goes all in on Texas ahead of 2022

Episode Date: June 13, 2021

Republicans signal defeat in a major concession regarding one of the worst voter suppression bills in the country. Brian interviews Beto O’Rourke about what's being done to fix the problems from 2020 when certain Texas counties swung to the right and whether a run for governor is in the works. And Brian chats with Leah Greenberg, the co-founder and co-executive director of Indivisible, about a major new effort that the group just launched.Donate to the Don't Be A Mitch fund: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dontbeamitchSign up for Indivisible’s Truth Brigade: https://act.indivisible.org/signup/indivisible-truth-brigadeWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CAhttps://www.briantylercohen.com/podcast/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we've got some good news about one of the worst voter suppression bills in the country. I interview Beto O'Rourke about the moves being made to fix the problems from 2020 when certain Texas counties actually swung to the right and whether a run for governor is in the works. And I chat with the co-founder and co-executive director of Indivisible, Leah Greenberg, about a major new effort that the group just launched. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So last week we spoke about Texas's voter suppression bill SB7, and I interviewed a member of the Texas State. House James Tala Rico. And I want to give you an update about that because the last thing we left off on was James basically saying that while he was proud that he and his colleagues were able to stave off this bill for now, that it was unlikely they'd be able to kill the bill

entirely if Republicans bring it up again in the special session promised by Governor Abbott. But then he said this. Well, you know, thanks to people like you, we are getting a national spotlight on Texas. Everyone in the country is talking about SB 7 and the Republicans attempts to really destroy representative democracy as we know it. And that kind of spotlight, that kind of attention, I think will force Republicans back to the negotiating table. And hopefully, you know, I do think we're going to pass some type of voter suppression bill. But as Texas Democrats, our goal is to limit the damage that this bill will do to our democratic system. But in particular, the damage it can do to vulnerable communities across our state, in particular

our black and brown communities. So I'm hopeful that that this renewed attention, this controversy that has kind of spread across the nation, across the world will allow us to negotiate a much better version of this bill in the special session. That the spotlight in and of itself was the goal. And that was validated when Republicans almost instantly backed off from the 1 p.m. Sunday voting ban, all of a sudden claiming that it was a typo and that they meant to write 11 a.m. even though I'm not sure how you can accidentally get the numbers wrong

and accidentally write PM instead of AM. Also, small issue of the fact that they literally defended that time while debating the bill, meaning that it was never a typo, but even they knew that it was indefensible enough that they had to drop it and so they did. And then after that, even better news, one of the single most dangerous parts of any bill, Republicans dropped another provision that would allow judges in Texas to void an election, even if there were only thin allegations of fraud. In other words, Republicans wouldn't even have to prove fraud to have an election be overturned, a provision so egregious that no Republican would even admit to putting it in the bill.

It wasn't in the House or the Senate versions. It was added in some last-ditch effort. And now, on top of all of that, one of the sponsors of the bill is actually calling that provision horrendous. This guy, Republican Travis Clardy, said, quote, there was zero appetite or intent or willingness to create some low bar where a single judge can overturn the results of an election. That would be horrendous policy, and it would never be healthy for the democracy. Yeah, it wouldn't. And if it weren't for the Texas Democrats who literally walked off the floor, that would be the law. Like, imagine an arsonist who just doused an entire building in gasoline, still holding the gasoline can, saying,

yeah, setting this building on fire would have been really bad for this neighborhood's well-being. Yeah, Travis, you're right. Great observation, man. And all of this happened in the last week. Who's to say what other typos they'll find? Who's to say what other horrendous provisions they'll scrap? And so the point of this is to show how, you know, it might feel like a lot of doom and gloom

and just us screaming into the ether, but this pressure works. And if it wasn't for the fact that everyone knew what was happening in Texas, we'd still have that provision limiting Sunday voting. We'd still have that provision allowing a single judge to undo the election results. And that's not to say that SB 7 passing is a sure thing because it's not. But at the very least, if it does pass, it's a hell of a lot less horrific than it was before, and that's odin parts of the fact that people are paying attention.

So I get that there's a lot of bad news, but there are wins in here, too, and we should take them where we can get them. I've been saying for weeks that SB 7 is the most dangerous photo suppression bill in the country, but now the most dangerous parts of the most dangerous bill are gone. That's a win, and it's something we should be proud of. Still coming up, a chat with Indivisible co-founder and co-executive director Leah Greenberg about an awesome new campaign being rolled out. But first, my interview with Beto O'Rourke.

Today we've got Beto O'Rourke. Thanks for coming back on. Hey, it's a pleasure to be with you. I'm transmitting from Denton, Texas, where we just had a big community conversation here last night on democracy and voting rights. We had about 800 people who came out, which is a great showing for something that's not necessarily on the ballot

and not connected to a candidate or a campaign, but obviously people care about. So great event last night. Now we're going into South Dallas to hold a similar event in that part of the community. Well, you know, you were the first elected official that I had on to this podcast. We just celebrated our one-year anniversary. And actually, the date that I had you on was June 8th, 2020. So by the time that this episode's released, it'll be almost a year ago to the day.

So, you know, thank you for supporting me back then and for coming back on now. Happy anniversary. Thanks. Let's jump in here. Now, we've got this issue of Joe Manchin now coming out against the For the People Act. And so, you know, I've been oscillating between being outraged because his decision is almost unilaterally helping Republicans try and destroy democracy and trying to reconcile that with the fact that, you know, he's a Democrat from maybe the red estate in the country.

And so what's your take on this issue and what would be your message to Joe Manchin? Look, I'm grateful for the fact that Senator Manchin supported the Four of the People Act. I believe he was a co-sponsor of it in 2019. I know that he supports the principle of voting rights, and he wants to make sure that this democracy that so many men and women have put their lives on the line for, and so many of them have lost their lives in service to this country and defending our Constitution,

and this democracy of by and for the people. I know that he wants to do the right thing. And I also know that he's compelled by the idea of bipartisanship, and finding that common ground. And frankly, I think that's a virtue. I know it's probably an unpopular one in both of our parties, but I'm grateful for the fact that he has tried to pursue that. I'm holding out the hope that after he exhausts every avenue of bipartisanship,

and let's hope on one of those, he finds those 10 Republican votes necessary to get voting rights passed. But should he not, I would love for him to come back. And I would love for all of us to welcome him back into the fold of support of the For the People Act. And what I know Senator Manchin knows, and Brian, I know you know this as well. Major civil rights and voting rights legislation is always a tough process to pass and very rarely has been done on a bipartisan basis. The 14th Amendment was passed on a party line vote. The 15th Amendment to the United States Constitution after the Civil War was passed on a party line vote. It may very well be that for the people, which will guarantee and expand voting rights in this country,

the most significant piece of voting rights legislation since the 1965 Voting Rights Act, coming at a time that democracy is under attack, unlike any time in American history, it might require a party-line vote. And so for those who are despairing over Senator Manson's recent statements that he won't support this, and he won't abolish or amend the filibuster. This happens all the time in tough negotiations, in tough situations. One party will walk away from the table. They'll tear up the contract.

Your partner might leave the house and say they're never coming back. And then over time, you reconcile it, you find that common ground again, and you maybe compromise, get to a consensus position, and you move forward. And I'm hoping that we can do that with Senator Mansion. and, you know, there's a lot of hope resting on him. But there's one other important person, Brian, that I don't think we bring into this conversation often enough. And that's President Joe Biden.

You know, he said he'll sign this. I know he believes in this. He's fought for it during his Senate career as Vice President of the United States. Now as president, he said this is one of the most important issues before us. But I'd love to see him do more. I'd love for him to bring the country together in a national speech and say, you know, men and women of America, voting. rights are under attack in 47 different states, 360 pieces of legislation. The Citadel of

democracy, or United States Capitol, was violently attacked on the 6th of January, and tens of millions of our fellow Americans believe in a big lie that the 2020 election was fraudulent, even though Donald Trump's own Secretary of Homeland Security called it the safest and most secure election in American history. People of America, Republicans and Democrats, let's come together to secure our democracy and to pass voting rights. We need that. We need that speech right now. We need that leadership from Joe Biden. And I think that will do a lot to help Joe Manchin get to the right place. Well, you know, building on that, Texas Democrats in the State House had inspired, you know, the whole party last week when they walked out to deprive

the chamber of a quorum and killed SB 7, which is the Texas Republican's own voter suppression law. Now, Governor Abbott had promised to bring SB 7 up again for a vote in a special legislative session. I interviewed a member of the Texas State House, James Telerico, last week, and he did mention that ultimately they would be unable to kill SB 7 when it comes back up for a vote. So I guess the question is, what's the move here? How do we stop what would arguably be the most severe voter suppression law in the country from taking hold? I think the metaphor or the analogy that comes to mind in answering your question is we're in this battle, this war for democracy across many fronts.

I mentioned there's 47 state legislatures that are considering or have passed voter support. suppression legislation. One of the major fronts in this battle is Texas, which is already the toughest state in which to vote. Our voter ID laws, our racial gerrymander, the hundreds of polling place closures concentrated in black and Latino neighborhoods. It's already made it the toughest place in America to be able to exercise your right to participate in this democracy. And they tried to make it a lot harder in the regular session of the Texas legislature. But James, Tala Rico, Jessica Gonzalez, Michelle Beckwith, these amazing Texas House Democrats, who, Brian, were in the minority, were able to stop it. And their ability to frustrate the Republicans' effort to clamp down on democracy in Texas purchased us some time to expand the fight on other fronts, including most importantly in the U.S. Senate.

But Representative Tala Rico is absolutely right. If we cannot get the Senate Democrats who, in contrast to the Texas Democrats, are in the majority, to do their job and to pass this voting rights legislation known as the For the People Act or H.R. 1 and Senate Bill won't. Then this sacrifice, the struggle, this victory in Texas will be for not. And so it's imperative that over the month of June, which may be the month that we have before the legislature is called back into a special. session that we make the most of it. And that's why you have me and many others traveling this state, rallying people to the cause of democracy and voting rights, asking them to pick up the phone and not waste their breath on Senators Cruz or Cornyn, but to go right to the White House, to the most powerful person on planet Earth, Joe Biden, and asking him to use that

extraordinary power to bring democracy home to this country. So we've had this reprieve in in the fight for a moment here in Texas, and now we've got to focus all of our force on the U.S. Senate and on the president. They've got to come through for us at this moment. Now, speaking of Texas Governor Greg Abbott, I know you won't say whether you're running for governor or not, but is there anything that would prevent you from running for governor of Texas? This fight that we're in right now for voting rights in Texas, for democracy in Texas, is the most important thing that I can think to do. As I hope I just made. made the case that our democracy's on the line and the window of time within which we could save

it is quickly closing. And so there should really be no other consideration. I hope for any of us other than doing that. And on this question of running for governor for me or anyone else, I don't know that it will matter if we fundamentally lose the right to vote in this state. I think the odds become that much longer, the playing field that less even, the odds that much more stacked, the game that much more rigged. We've got to make sure that we have free and fair elections. And then when we mount campaigns and support candidates, we know in good faith that we have a shot at winning at the end of the day. And especially in Texas, especially in Georgia, we're on the eve of her 2018. campaign, Stacey Abrams was witness to the purging of hundreds of thousands of voters from those

roles. They just passed and signed into law under a painting of a plantation, no less, some of the most restrictive voter suppression legislation in the country. So we need to win this fight. We absolutely must win this fight. It is existential, not for Democrats, by the way. It is existential for democracy. So let's see this through. And then if there is some other capacity in which I can serve, either as a candidate or supporting great candidates, I'm all in. I'm in for the distance for Texas. Great. Well, a lot of the work that you do does intersect with the work that Stacey Abrams did in Georgia.

But, you know, in this last election, whereas Georgia went blue, Texas hit some snags. So what's being done to rectify the issues in Texas, especially with the Latino population and that, that, that, Latino vote actually swinging to the right in places like South Texas in the Rio Grande Valley? Yeah, a couple of things. One, really important for all of us to remember that this is a state of 30 million people. And so to put it in relative context, on the first day of early voting in 2020, as many people voted in Harris County, where Houston is, as voted in the entire state of Georgia. So our 254 counties are extraordinarily diverse population, geographic. and otherwise requires a monumental effort and investment if we're going to produce similar

results to those that we saw in Georgia in 2020 and in those amazing Senate wins in 2021. But a lesson that we can pull from the example that Stacey Abrams and the New Georgia Project, Fair Fight, and so many other grassroots groups set, is this. Stacey reminds us that her goal was not so much to convince someone, to vote for a Democrat, but to convince a Georgia voter to vote at all. After decades, generations of voter suppression, that is no small feat. And she and others were able to pull that off. And I think that's the secret of so much of their success. Here in Texas, Brian, this is hard to believe. But in 2020, the most important election of our lives, perhaps one of,

if not the most important elections in the life of this country. Seven million eligible Texans did not vote. Seven million did not vote. So they'll tell you it's a red state. We know it's a non-voting state. Convincing or listening to those seven million Texans as to why they did not vote and helping them to come to a conclusion that voting actually matters, that their voice actually counts, and that we're listening to them is the game.

It's how we do this. if we have free and fair elections to begin with. And so that's why you see empowered by people, our organization. It's why you see the Texas Democratic Party. It's why you see Move, all these amazing organizations in this state. The Texas Organizing Project is another one out there now in 2021, not waiting for 2022, talking to and most importantly listening to voters to bring them out. So I think that is a really important example that Stacey Abrams.

that others have set in Arizona, in Georgia, in states where we saw significant success in 2020. We've been working on this many of us for many years in Texas. We're getting a little bit closer every election cycle. We need to bring it through in 2022 and in 2024. Take some time, take some effort. And if you're watching this and you're interested and you want to be part of this fight,

join us at powered by people. It's poweredxpeople.org and we'll put you to work. Certainly if you're in Texas, we'll have you knocking on doors. If you're outside of the state and you want to help us, we'll put you on the phones and we'll have you texting. There's a way to help out in Texas, and we'd love to have your support to do it. I'm really glad that you brought up powered by people. And before you go, I do want to let you know that about a month ago, I started the Don't

Be a Mitch Fund. That was to raise money for voter outreach and voter registration organizations in the eight states with the closest Senate races in 2022. And the goal was to focus now on getting people educated and engaged and registered, you know, basically to build the foundation now so that we're not just, you know, shelling out cash for attack ads in September, October, and election year. And so I partnered with a lot of outstanding organizations, the New Georgia Project, Action Fund, Pennsylvania stands up, black leaders organizing communities or block in

Wisconsin, Florida Rising, and a number more. Now, I'm going to keep this fun going until it's time to vote in 2022. But the goal was that if we could hit $100,000 in the first month, that I would add a new partner. And as of today, just a month into this fund, we've exceeded that $100,000. We've actually raised more than $250,000. And that was thanks to the amazing people watching and listening right now.

So I'm going to keep my word and I'm going to be adding a new organization to this fund. And that will be your organization powered by people. The work you do is beyond inspiring. It's what I wish we had in all 50 states. And so, you know, I'm thrilled to be able to spend the next year and a half helping support the you do in Texas. Brian, that's amazing. Unexpected and such an awesome surprise. And so thank you to you, but also obviously thank you to those who follow you and watch you and take your guidance as gospel because they're the ones who are funding this, these great campaigns and grassroots efforts

in other states. And now it sounds like powered by people here in Texas. I'll make this commitment to you and to your viewers, we will make the most of what you contribute and put into the effort. We have traveled just over the last six days to eight different communities, to register voters, to bring people into this fight for democracy and voting rights, and we're not going to the bluest of places, at least not yet. We've been traveling to some of the reddest counties on planet Earth, and we've had folks come out in the hundreds who want to be part of this effort and this fight. And your donations will support them as they become volunteer deputy registrars to get people onto the voter rolls. Your support will help us to back these state legislators

who are fighting the good fight here in Texas. And your support will help us to win elections in 2022, 2024, and beyond. So, Brian, I cannot thank you enough. Of course. Well, we're happy to do it. So Beto, I know that you're, you got to get back on the road here. So thank you again for taking the time. I appreciate it. It's always great talking to you. grateful likewise thanks again to Beto O'Rourke now I'm joined by Leah Greenberg the co-founder and co-executive director of Indivisible thanks for coming on the chat great to be here so I'm sure everyone's heard about Indivisible but give me the elevator pitch for those who haven't well Indivisible got started shortly after Donald Trump was elected in 2016

my husband and I put a guide to congressional activism to organizing locally to resist Trump on the internet. To our total surprise, it went viral, and then thousands of people around the country started to form groups called indivisible groups dedicated to both putting the guidance action and more broadly to promoting progressive policies and a progressive vision of our country. We formed an organization to support them and to bring together all of this incredible energy into particularly national strategies for impact and have been working in partnership with this movement ever since. That's fantastic. So you've launched an effort now that's called the Truth Brigade. So can you explain what that is and how it works? Invisible's Truth Brigade is a

team of thousands of volunteers who are trained in disinformation fighting and who work together to share and amplify positive, authentic counter messaging. The program really came out of needs and concerns we were hearing from indivisible leaders around the country, especially folks in red and rural areas about the impact of disinformation in their communities. Our team dug into the research, the organizer for Colorado, Jody Rain, on our team who went into the research and tried to contact a bunch of experts and figure out what could a decentralized network of locally led groups and individual volunteers do to combat disinformation. And what we came up with was this idea that fundamentally, you know, this is not a problem that is going to be solved by,

an app or an algorithm alone. But one thing that can have a really powerful impact is people organizing and messaging within their own networks in ways that dispel damaging narratives and replace them with positive, authentic counter messages. So that's the Truth Brigade. So basically, where do the edicts come down? Like, how do you decide, okay, this is the piece of disinformation that we're going to focus on? And where does the fact check basically come from?

Does it come from, like, the top? Well, we work with folks who are tracking what is bubbling up in the right-wing ecosystem and, you know, what are narratives that are particularly damaging and particularly in need of countering. So, for example, a lot of work recently has been focused on starving the big lie. So, you know, counter messaging related to concerns about the integrity of the 2000 election and the ongoing efforts like the Arizona fake scam audit, so-called audit. But also things like spreading positive and messaging around the American Rescue Plan and what's in it, dispelling false narratives around HR1, the for the People Act, talking about COVID myths and, you know, spears around Dr. Fauci. It's a lot of different pieces that are really about kind of what's the world that people perceive around them.

Do they understand and have trust in society and their networks? Do they understand the good parts of what is coming out of Washington right now and the needs for change? And, you know, are they equipped with tools to dispute or to contextualize some of the biggest Republican false narratives that are coming out? Yeah, it seems like there's no shortage of disinformation campaigns to choose from. Unfortunately, no. With that said, what was the straw that broke the camels back for you to go ahead and create this effort? Was there one disinformation campaign in particular that you felt like the media more broadly couldn't handle and that spurred you to step in? I don't know that there was one individual thing.

I think we've all been seeing this rising tide over the last several years and, you know, racking her brains with how to fight it. I do think that it's certainly been the case that since the pandemic, pandemic, the acceleration of series of conspiracy theories around both COVID and, you know, around the overall Q&N phenomenon elevated for many folks, the urgency of this. And, you know, many people were coming to us and saying, like, what are we going to do about the fact that when we make calls in our community, we're getting Q&N stuff back at us. Well, I think this is a great idea. And it's also the basis for a lot of what I do. I mean, my, my channels and everything are

really focused on debunking disinformation. But at the same time, I'm wondering, is it really tenable to have to do this when we're up against systemic disinformation from bots and even right wing media, you know, real right wing media and right wing elected officials? Like, isn't there a part of you that recognizes that we shouldn't have to create an army of thousands of volunteers just to get back to zero here? Just like none of this benefits us. This is just to level the playing field. Absolutely. I mean, look, this is, we are fully. aware that this should not be the responsibility of individuals to combat. There have been real failures in regulation. There have been real failures of leadership in the tech companies

that have gotten us to this point. They are, they've consistently kind of, the tech companies have consistently declined to recognize that they have real roles as media companies. They function as such. They have really absolved themselves of responsibility for many of the damaging things that happen on their platform and Washington has failed to act in a way that would encourage them to do so. So I don't think anybody feels like this should be the responsibility of organizations like ours or volunteers like the Truth Brigade leaders, but it is where we are and we're trying to figure out, you know, how can we have the biggest impact possible and how do you, how do you have that impact on a local level, right? Fundamentally, what we know is people are more likely to resonate or

believe material that's coming from within their own community. So the message matters, but sometimes the messenger matters just as much. And that's what Truth Brigade brings is real, genuine messengers located all around the country. So I'm on every platform. But the platform that I noticed that conservatives have really overtaken, you know, probably on purpose and with coordinated help from that platform is Facebook. So obviously the Facebook audience skews older, you know, that that's the Republican base. Those are more reliable voters. And presumably they would be the easiest marks for a Republican Party that needs marks. Do your efforts pay particular attention to Facebook over the other platforms? You know, Facebook is quite often the primary platform where

folks are sharing this content. And yes, we recognize the same thing that it plays a very disproportional role in the spread of misinformation. By the way, what do you think of Facebook's decision to revisit Trump's ban in two years? That sounds painfully well-time for the 2024 election. So I don't think much of it. I would say more generally, I think that they're really abdicating their responsibilities here again. Leaving the door open to a return is completely inappropriate and incommensurate with the reality of what Trump did, which was attempt to incite a coup. That's not a two-year timeout kind of thing. I was going to say, apparently the punishment for attempting to an insurrection on the U.S. Capitol is 24 months. So what else are you

guys doing ahead of 2022 more broadly within Indivisible? Well, look, right now we are in the middle of a democratic trifecta. These do not happen very often. They are, you know, once in a decade, once in a generation sometimes. They are the moment when you actually can really deliver at the federal level and show people why democratic governance makes a difference in their lives. We've already seen that with the American Rescue Plan, you know, didn't get everything we wanted, but it was a groundbreaking transfer of wealth to middle and lower income folks. It was dramatically reduced child poverty, as well as obviously turbocharging the vaccination effort that is helping to get many of our lives closer to normal. Right now, the biggest window of opportunity we have for a generation is for us very much as passing structural democracy reform, right?

We all know that we didn't get Trump out of nowhere. We've been witnessing a systemic Republican assault on the rules of the game in this country, on the basics of our. democracy on the freedom to vote for a very long time. It's, you know, everything from targeting and suppressing voters of color to going after labor unions, to rigging the courts, to gerrymandering their way into power. It's really everywhere they can think of to rig the roles of the game, they're going for it. And, you know, if we don't use the power that we have right now to make our democracy fair, more inclusive, and more resilient against these attacks, then we're just going to keep playing this same rigged game. So for us, we are just all in right now on fighting for

the Four of the People Act. We're all in on fighting for the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and for D.C. statehood, because these are the kinds of reforms that we need to actually make our country genuinely a representative democracy. So how can we help both the Truth Brigade and Indivisible more broadly? Well, we hope that you will join us in the Truth Brigade if you are interested in volunteering to spread authentic positive counter messaging to fight disinformation in your own community. And we hope that you will join us in taking action to convince Congress that this is a once-in-a-generation moment to pass game-changing structural democracy reform that will actually help to make our democracy fair and more inclusive. And there's no time to wait and you need them

all into. Leah, thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you for the work that you're doing and for this new project as well. You've got a lot of people behind you and supporting what you guys are doing so thank you thank you thanks again to lea now one last note before i sign off and that's that now that powered by people is officially part of the don't be a mitch fund if you haven't yet donated please consider making a donation i really want to be able to show betto and the folks in texas how much of a punch we can pack so far we've raised almost three hundred thousand dollars in just over a month that is beyond anything i could have imagined but these organizations are already working they're already doing their part they're knocking on doors their phone banking

and text banking, they're contacting voters, and they're getting people registered. Even if you're not out there volunteering, you can help support the people who are. So please, if you plan on donating in the 2022 midterm cycle anyway, your money will go the furthest by donating now. The link to the Don't Be a Mitch Fund is in the episode notes and also on my website at brian Tyler Cohen.com. Okay, that's it for this episode. Talk to you next week.

You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, interviews captured and edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nicholas Nicotera and recorded in Los Angeles, California. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app. Feel free to leave a five-star rating and a review, and check out Brian Tyler Cohen.com for links to all of my other channels.