No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Democrats land bombshell good news in California court

Episode Date: September 7, 2025

Democrats land bombshell good news in court in California. Brian interviews Tommy Vietor about RFK’s disastrous Senate hearing, and Graham Platner, Abdul El Sayed and Rob Sand about their runs in Maine, Michigan, and Iowa.Support Graham Platner: https://act.link/gi-pl3btcSupport Abdul el Sayed: https://abdulforsenate.com/Support Rob Sand: https://robsand.com/Shop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We've got some bombshell good news in California, and I've got four interviews this week. I speak with Tommy Vitor about RFK's disastrous Senate hearing, and Graham Platner, Abdul Al-Sayed, and Rob Sand about their runs in Maine, Michigan, and Iowa ahead of 2026. I'm Brian Taylor Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So on last week's podcast, I spoke about the one court case that I was watching out above all others. It's the case in California, Newsom versus Trump, where the Democrats sued Trump over his deployment of, federal troops. And the reason that this is so important is twofold. First off, Trump is, you know, obviously looking to flex his autocratic muscles right now. And what better way to do that than by sending in a police force that's answerable to him in every major population sensor in America.

He's done it in L.A. and D.C., and he's now threatening to do it in Chicago and New York and New Orleans. And second, he wants to be able to normalize this idea of deploying troops so that if and when he does it during the election, it won't feel as anti-democratic as it actually is. is. And remember, he's tried this before. He tried to seize the voting machines in 2020 in Georgia. He tried to block certification of the election in Congress. He ultimately incited an insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. But back then, he didn't have the boots on the ground to be able to effectuate his plans. But imagine what a standing army answerable to him would be able to do the next time he issues his edicts. All of which is to say, there are some very obvious reasons why we need

to fight back against the legal basis for him to be able to deploy these troops. And we got exactly that ruling just days ago, where a trial court judge, Judge Breyer, ruled against Trump in his efforts to deploy the military for any reason other than basically guarding federal buildings. And of course, Trump was using them as his own police force. He was using them for law enforcement and so on. That's now illegal in California. So what happens next? Trump may appeal this case to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. That's not without risk. So right now, the ruling against Trump is a trial court ruling. And when you have a trial court ruling, that means it's not legal precedent. But if he appeals and loses at the Ninth Circuit, then it will be

legal precedent, which means that judges in Illinois and New York and Louisiana can take that ruling into account when prosecutors inevitably litigate against Trump's deployment into those states. So Trump can opt not to appeal. He could just take the L in California. And by the way, even though it's a trial court ruling here in California, the case still does offer a legal framework for other prosecutors in other states like Illinois and New York and Louisiana to be able to adopt the same argument that worked over here. So either way, whether he appeals or not, it's already not great legally speaking for Trump. And look, is this a silver bullet? Of course not. Donald Trump, of all people, has a way of exploiting and manipulating the legal system to be able

to bend to his will. But this is objectively a good development against the single most dangerous tool that he has at his disposal. And let's be clear, he's not shying away from deploying that tool. Trump took to choose social this weekend, writing, I love the smell of deportations in the morning. Chicago is about to find out why it's called the Department of War. So let's be perfectly clear about what Trump's suggesting here, that the Department of Defense, or the newly minted Department of War,

will now set its sights on the city of Chicago. In the United States, Trump is broadcasting that he is turning the U.S. military against American citizens. And the fact that he'll say this publicly, knowing how unpopular it is, knowing that there's no political upside, goes to show that he's not doing this to curry political favor. He is only doing it because he truly believes that he's a king for whom the rules don't apply. So look, this court ruling in California is undoubtedly a step in the right direction, but as far as the broader fight is concerned, this isn't the end, it's just the beginning. Next up are my interviews with Tommy Vitor, Graham Platner, Abdul Al-Said, and Rob Sand.

I'm joined now by the co-host of POTSafe America and POTSave the World, Tommy Vitor. Tommy, thanks for joining me. Brian, great to see you. So the talk of the town right now is Gavin Newsom and his press account that are just kind of driving Fox News, Trump, Republicans, up the wall. And so I'm curious, first and foremost, as we think about this, as we think about the effectiveness of this, beyond just, you know, is it funny? Is it getting retweets and likes and whatnot? If what you think about in terms of how really moving this kind of stuff is. Yeah.

Well, like, I mean, win number one, we're talking about it, right? Right. In the attention economy, that counts for a lot. Yeah, there have been stories in Politico. There was a big segment on CNN. I mean, people are noticing what Gavin Newsom is doing, and it is getting him a lot of attention. And I think it's happening at a time where Democrats are desperate for the Democratic Party to fight. They want a fighter.

They want someone to push back on what Trump is doing. They're seeing him deploy troops. to the streets of Los Angeles, where we live in Washington, D.C., and they're like, who was pushing back? And they see Gavin Newsom, this account, at least, like fucking with Trump all day, every day, and they like it. Yeah. And what do you think that this does in terms of an incentive structure for other Democrats to kind of meet the moment with the same urgency as Newsom is? Yeah, I think it's going to draw people into more fights, or at least like speaking out on more issues publicly, doing more interviews and just being more engaged. Because

Gavin Newsom feels like omnipresent the last couple of months. You know, it was like basically from the fires, which is what, eight months ago until now, he's been pushing back against Trump. He's pushing this big redistricting pledge to try to save us from what Texas is doing in Trump's efforts to basically rig the map so we can't win the midterm election. So I think like there's probably a lot of Democrats who are thinking about running for president in 2028 who are wondering, how do we catch up to this guy right now? Do you think that there is enough of an incentive structure that he's building? I mean, I know that we have some footage here from the polling as it relates to as it relates to Newsom's new press strategy. I think we can roll that clip.

I think it absolutely has been working in terms of generating attention, which is what he's trying to do, right? I mean, take a look here. Let's take a look right at the at gov press office followers on X. That's, of course, where you get those sort of the account where Newsom post those Trump-style mocking types of tweets. Get this. That account, get this. Up 450% in terms of the number of followers since mid-June. And it's not just on Twitter X where Newsom is gaining.

Even on TikTok and Instagram, his followers are up over a million since January alone. My goodness gracious. And more than that, Laura, more than that. What about Google? What about those Google searches for them? Get this daily Google searches for Gavin Newsom up like a rocket. What are we talking about since June 1, up 1,300 percent compared to August 1st? Look at that, up 500%.

So is there a world? in which other Democrats who are seeking higher office, who are running for Senate, running for the House, running for president, don't see that and say, hey, maybe there's something to this strategy of not being safe, not being offensive, not being poll tested, not being focus grouped, and just go out there, do the thing as aggressively as possible, and we'll see, you know, we'll see exactly what we want to come out of it. I mean, look, I think the risk is they see what Gavin Newsom is doing and they do, like, an imitation of it, which that won't work.

Like, Gavin has carved out this lane. This is kind of going to be his thing now. We don't need like, we don't need everybody doing the all-caps tweets. No, imagine like Mayor Pete's out there. An army, an army of just like Trump imitators out there, just trip, Trump mockers, the whole Democratic Party. Party of trolls all of a sudden. No, I think what they're going to see is that Democrats want a fighter and Gavin Newsom is giving them that fighter. And I think that's very important.

But also like, look, the prediction markets, I'm not sure what to make of them in politics, but the prediction markets on who will get the Democratic nomination for Gavin Newsom, he went. from 11% in June to 24% now. So that means these odds makers think his odds of being the Democratic nominee for president have doubled. Yeah. And granted, I mean, again, you take that all with a grain of salt because, you know, what happens now

might not be anything similar to what happens a week from now or a month from now. I certainly didn't sit there in January of 2020 thinking that the world would look the way it did in March of 2020. So all of those caveats notwithstanding. Even though you were in Wuhan. I was. I was.

You know, I just, I love it. I love. I love farmers markets and I especially love pangolin and you know about, you know about how obsessed I know, I know. Wrong place at the wrong time. Yeah, pangolin. But, you know, I think what he's doing is smart for two reasons. It's not just, it's not just the trolling, right? I mean, that is entertaining unto itself and I do enjoy it unto itself, like in a vacuum. But I think it's smart because it's driving people to his pages. It's driving Google searches up for him. But he's He's wielding it in a way that's responsible because, look, we're facing an existential threat at the hands of Trump and this Republican Party. They are right now trying to redraw these maps mid-cycle to scientifically engineered Democrats out of office to make sure that we don't have the opportunity to ever win again.

So, yes, is existential for Democrats. Yes, is existential for democracy. He's out there making that case. And in large part, one of the only ones making that case. I mean, there are a few others who are doing it forcefully. I mean, Beto has been doing it really forcefully. James Telerico has been doing it really forcefully. J.B. Pritzker has been really good as well.

But there are not that many people talking about the threats that we're contending with right now in the same way that he is, certainly who aren't taking the action that he is, which counts for a hell of a lot more. But so I think that he deserves credit not just for figuring out a way to break through in this attention economy, which already is an accomplishment onto itself. But once he's got those eyeballs on him, he's wielding that attention in a responsible way. Exactly. Yeah, he's not just trolling for the sake of trolling. he's growing his accounts and getting tons of people to Google him at a time when he's about to embark on this campaign to get California to change the way we do redistricting and to do so in a temporary manner to fight back against a huge threat from Trump. So I think you're right, it's trolling with a purpose. And I think it's been very valuable. And I think what's most telling here is the extent to which Republicans don't know how to handle it.

They're freaking out. I mean, Fox News is freaking out. Let's throw to the clip of one Fox News host trying to netherly. navigate his way through attacking Gavin Newsom while at the same time ignoring the fact that what Gavin News is doing is imitating Donald Trump. Gavin News, meantam, posting this on X, Liz, using all capitals, of course, trying to mock Trump, use Trump style, has been doing this for a while now. He says, quoting, Trump, Trump just fled the podium with Putin, no questions, nothing.

Total low energy. The man looked like he'd just eaten three buckets of KFC with Vlad. Admit it, Donnie, Jay. You're terrified because this was the worst week of your life. because of me gavin c newsome i think he's trying to be funny i think i mean i don't know what he's trying to do but but it comes across as childish and what are you're the governor of the biggest state in the union what are you doing that's to tommy your your reaction to fox news simply not understanding what it is that

gavin newsom is trying to accomplish here we're not very self-aware over at fox news are we um i loved i didn't catch until just now that the eat he looks like he's eating three buckets of KFC with lead. Such a random swerp. It's called the weave, Tommy. It's called the weave. Yeah, it's great. Look, Fox has, how many times has Fox played like an hour long, just incoherent phone interview with Donald Trump where, you know, if you read the transcript, it would look just like one of those Gavin Newsomers. Yeah, and they're like, you know what, beautifully put by the president of the United States, we've got a new tone here.

He's really just, really just, you know, fitting into the job more and more on a daily basis. it's not just Fox that's getting mad. I mean, a bunch of White House spokespeople are like crashing out and lashing back and attacking Gavin Newsom. But when they do that, they just give him more attention. And that's not just like attention in terms of there's a back and forth and people like us notice it and read it. It's algorithmic attention, right? Like when you are fighting with Gavin, when you're responding to him, when you're retweeting him or yelling at him on Twitter, you are making it so that more people see the things he is tweeting out. Well, you know the rule. It's you you quote tweet. your friends, and you screenshot your enemies. Exactly. And these people don't know that because they're so butt hurt what Gavin Newsom is doing. I'm going to put an image right here on the screen of one of these latest instances of trolling. We've got Tucker Carlson, Hulk Hogan, and Kid Rock all kind of praying at the altar of Gavin Newsom. I would love to know.

I would like to have been in the... And the best part is the so nice. So nice. He makes an AI image of himself and then thanks everybody for it. So nice. I would love to have been in the conversation. where they decided which three individuals to put behind Gavin. I think it was an inspired collection.

Yeah, I mean, divinely inspired, one might say. Yeah, oh, Hulk. As it relates to Hulk. Well, look, we're going to take this moment right now to point out the fact that Pod Save America's YouTube channel, as of this recording right now, is just shy, a few thousand shy of a million subscribers. These guys of Potts Save America are in large part why I do what I do. They are and always have been a huge part of my media diet.

And so everybody who's watching, if you are not, you know, you're not. yet subscribe to Potta of America's YouTube channel, go ahead and hit the subscribe button. It doesn't cost anything to do so. It's a great way to support not just their work, which is invaluable, but the independent media ecosystem, the progressive media ecosystem more broadly. Let's make sure that when people come onto YouTube to find news, that they're not automatically sorted into right-wing accounts, they don't fall into these right-wing rabbit holes right away. So let's elevate the voices of people who are doing good work, and it does not get any better than my friends over at Pod Save America. So again, hit the subscribe button

and make sure to support these guys who are doing the hard work, every single day. Thanks, Brian. And also, if you're watching this and you're not subscribed to Brian's channel, please do. Because I believe the fastest growing YouTube channel in the last quarter was Benny Johnson from TPUSA. I think you had like 2.2 million new subscribers in just those three months, which one suggests that they are buying subscribers somehow.

And two, though, like that is bad because when people search for normies, search for news on YouTube, they find that crap because the algorithm will promote big channels and big accounts like that. We've got to push back. That's exactly right. So for anybody watching, if you're not yet subscribe to both channels, I'm going to put the links right here on the screen. Tommy, appreciate your time. Great to see you, bud. I'm joined by a candidate for the U.S. Senate in Maine, Graham Platner. Graham, thanks for joining me. Hey, thanks a lot, Brian. It's good to be back. So we have some big news about your opponent, the Republican incumbent, Susan Collins, that just broke a couple of days ago in the Rolling Stone.

I'm going to put the headline right here on the screen. Susan Collins raked in Wall Street Cash before advancing Trump tax bill, Blackstone billionaire Steve Schwartzman gave $2 million to Colin SuperPack a day before she voted to advance Trump's one big, beautiful bill. So the reaction to the fact that you have this self-proclaimed moderate senator

who is just basically openly being bought by moneyed interest to be able to advance a bill that ultimately cut health care, cut food assistance to the poorest Americans, including the poorest folks in your state. I mean, to be honest, I'm not in any way, shape, or form surprised. I also don't think that many people in Maine are going to be all that surprised. Susan Collins has been the epitome of an establishment politician this whole time

to find out that she's receiving money from the groups and the interests that are going to benefit from massive tax cuts for corporations at the detriment to Medicaid and Medicare funding. I'm not, that is, I think, to be expected. I think it also, sadly, at this point, just shows why we are beyond time when it comes to replacing her as the senator from the state of Maine. 62,000 Mainers are going to lose health coverage because of the cuts to Medicaid and Medicare. in a state of 1.3 million. It's a lot of people.

Yeah. And those are not people who can afford these kinds of losses. We're not talking about wealthy people here. And the fact that that is all done in the service of tax cuts to the ultra wealthy, the fact that that is, that she moved this thing along after receiving that much money from the interest that benefit from it. I mean, it's not science rockets, but it's fairly easy to see where all this. comes from and why it all happens.

Well, I think that disparity between you, for example, and Susan Collins is why your campaign is garnering so much enthusiasm. You recently appeared at a rally with Bernie Sanders that had thousands of people in attendance that's really garnered national attention here. So can you talk a little bit about the feeling that you had in that room and why your campaign is standing out the way that it is? One was just the sheer energy of the people that came. I mean, it was a day off.

It was on Labor Day. Yeah. Um, people came down from, I was getting texts all day from folks who I know cross the state where we're like, we're driving down to Portland for the rally. Um, it, we, we filled out the stadium. It was 6,500 seats. It was packed. Um, and everyone in the room, very clearly is, like, has just been, in many ways, like, waiting to be engaged. And now that they are, like, it, like, we, it was palpable. I mean, I don't really know how to explain it. It was a very, it was like a physical feeling of being in the room. It wasn't just about giving a speech. It wasn't just about

being in front of people. But there was this energy in the room where it felt everybody was there and everybody was connected. It was quite spectacular. Talk to me about the partisan breakdown because, you know, that's something that's always nagging is like, okay, we see these rallies, but are they just Democrats? Are they folks who would vote for anybody who is, you know, not Susan Collins, for example. And so how does that break down? How have your conversations with folks who you've met across Maine,

not just at that rally, but elsewhere, give us some insight into the kind of people that your campaign's attracting. One, at the rally alone, I know, two people who I know have voted Republican in the past were at the rally.

Yeah. And they drove ways to get there. And they were amped. And that, honestly, that tracks with much of the feedback I'm receiving. As I still kind of move around like my small community, but also move around the state and interact with the folks, there is an, there are an immense amount of people who tell me that they voted for Trump or who tell me that they didn't vote in the last election,

who tell me that this message, this candidacy is the thing that is like, like reanimating them politically for a myriad of reasons. But I think primarily, it's the fact that it's I they know that I'm just a dude from like a small town in Maine there's clearly like a level of authenticity that like people can just kind of connect with I which is which is weird for me because I'm mostly just here being myself so I like I get it but I also that makes me feel like I'm doing something but I'm not doing something I'm not really how to sure how to quite explain that but um but there has been the just like this immense amount of feedback of people who, it is clear, had become so disillusioned

with politics that they had either voted for Trump in a hope to like get some big change that was coming that they're not getting. Or for a lot of people, and this is most like the independence and unenrolled voters, they just sat the last one out. Yeah. They, they really, I mean, they, and they're not, they didn't disengage because they're apathetic. They didn't disengage because they're not politically, like, curious or politically informed. In fact, in many ways, they're so politically informed that they just saw a political system that was not going to respond to their needs at all. And so they decided to just check out of the system.

And I'll be out. I mean, I, that was not my answer, but I don't blame anybody for that. I can understand that feeling. The amount of folks who've come up to me just in the past two weeks, who have expressed an interest, in re-registering as a Democrat so they can vote in the primary, even though they don't even have to because Mayan has open primaries. But it is clear that a lot of folks were just looking for the energy and for the kind of message that they wanted to see.

And in many ways, are the message I wanted to see. And that's why we're here. And the feedback has just been, yeah, it's like overwhelming how positive it's been. Talk to me a little bit about the things that Trump promised these people. And granted, we know in retrospect the extent to which this was a bill of goods because this guy ran on promises of – I mean, he was talking about the cost of eggs. Literally, like the cost of an egg. So this guy was cosplaying as a populace, talked about groceries, about rent, about housing,

about these issues that actually impact people, got into office, surrounded himself with gold plating in the oval, moved forward with a $200 billion ballroom, started hosting crypto dinners and ultimately passed a tax cut where the rewards are disproportionately heaped onto millionaires and billionaires, all the while stripping away Medicaid from 17 million Americans and cutting food assistance to the tune of $350 billion. And so talk about what he promised these people, how they're reacting to it right now and just a broader sense of like, are these Trump voters, are these Republican voters, or are they still up for grabs? I think a lot of them are up for grabs. And I'll just say this, like, here in this part of man, at least the part of man that I spend most of my time in, people were told that tariffs were going to somehow create all this money

that was going to then get injected into the government that was somehow going to, without any kind of explanation, bring the cost of everything down. Yeah. And that it was going to pay. for all these programs. Of course, I mean, we know that that's... Right.

I mean, the irony is that the tariffs unto themselves are a consumption tax. And so inherently, those will bring the prices of everything up. Well, and that's the thing. I know a lot of folks who are in construction, in contracting. Yeah. They are watching costs go up 20, 30, 40 percent. And the people that are... are selling them, the goods are telling them that it's because of the tariff uncertainty.

I know several people who are definitely Trump supporters. I know they've told me that they're Trump supporters. And all they tell me every day I see them now is Trump is destroying this country. Yeah. Because prices are going up. And they were told prices were not going to go up. They were told prices were going to just go through the floor and everything was going to be affordable again.

What is important for us, I think, as Democrats, what is important for, for us as the opposition when it comes to authoritarianism, when it comes to the rise of fascism, we need to be there ready to give people the actual answers as to why their material existence is getting worse. And that, I mean, in many ways, that is the core of my campaign. Things are going to get worse. Here in Eastern Maine, we have a hospital system that is hanging on by a thing. thread and that thread is Medicaid and Medicare. And that thread just got cut. Yeah.

So things are going to get worse. And as they get worse, as the material conditions of people's lives continue to get worse, we need to be there with a real answer, not just as to why it's happening, but also how we are going to fix it. And it needs to be understandable. It needs to be clear. I mean, that's why I'm a big Medicare for all person. We need, the days of playing around on the margins with vague language are over. We cannot do that. People think you're lying to them because often you are. You're trying to tell them you're going to make it better without telling them how you're going to make it better. We need policy. We need very clear, concrete policy to point to, to say, this is why your life is bad and this is how we are going to make it

better. If we don't do that, I fear that as things get worse, people will continue to be able to be sucked in by right-wing populism, by blaming minorities, blaming immigrant groups, blaming those that can't protect themselves. Because that's just how this works. I mean, that's how right-wing populism thrives. And I think those people are getable because I hear from them all the time that like they're they know what's going on they're aware of it they're just looking for somebody to give them an answer and they will respond positively when they get one why do you think it's okay acceptable encouraged and even rewarded when republicans and trump specifically promised to upend the system and yet democrats often don't run that way i mean democrats will figure out some

position that is so safe so unoffensive so circumspect that it that it offends the least amount of people that once it's poll tested and focus grouped into oblivion and, you know, again, doesn't have, is not controversial and sanitized within an inch of its life that, you know, we end up with policies that are often just, you know, some small, some small incremental continuation of something that we've had before, or even worse, just deferring to upholding norms or institutions. So why that asymmetry and how is your campaign looking to break through that. The reason that the stuff worked

from the Trump administration, the reason it worked from Republicans, is that at its core, they at least told people that something that they knew was true was true. What people know is that they live in a system that is not built to represent them at all. They know that.

They can feel it. They can see it every day. If you go around, the United States, you go find any working person, Trump voter, Democrat, progressive, conservative, go find anybody that works for a living and you ask them, do you think that you live in a political system and an economic system that has your best interest at heart? Nobody says yes. Everybody says no. Everybody knows that they're living in a larger system that is built to screw them. Yep.

At least Trump and the Republicans hold people that was true. Right. And when you tell people that a thing that they know in their bones is true is true, they're willing to forgive a lot of other stuff. Right. And I think the problem that we have been finding and that I think is, and it's a problem because we've done it to ourselves, is that when people say, this system is screwing me,

and we say, no, no, no, no, no. Actually, what we need to be doing is protecting these institutions. We need to be, and I'm utterly convinced that when Democrats talked in the last election about protecting democracy, a lot of people out there heard protecting the status quo. And people don't want to hear that. People want to be told that the thing that they know is true is, and that that is they live in a system that does not represent them. And they are right, by the way. they are right that the system does not represent them that's why we have a health care system that is built around extracting money out of poor people instead of providing services that's why

that exists and people know that's why it exists and i think that the the success of our of our campaign thus far but i also think the future of the democratic party is to run candidates and run campaigns that can speak to that angst with real solutions that are based in the reality that people find themselves living in. And when you focus group and poll test and you go so far into trying to come up with solutions that will not offend or bother anyone, you wind up with solutions that won't fix anything. Yeah. And you got to take risks. The big, One, though, is that we need to turn the Democratic Party into a big tent party that is welcoming to essentially everyone except for billionaires, unless they are okay with paying some more taxes,

in which case party on, in corporate interests. Yeah. And we also need to make sure we are not a party that is going to abide racism, homophobia, any of the progressive things that we have fought for for generations, we are not taking any steps back on that. But as long as you think that taking care of people and building community is what we should be doing as a society, then you should have a place in our party. And the only people that shouldn't have a place are massive corporate interests. And I would like them to just go back to being represented by the Republican Party, which is how it once was. Yeah. Perfectly put.

For folks who are watching right now who are looking to donate to your campaign to help you out, where can they go? So gramfor-senate.com. And, you know, we definitely, even though we're seeing massive success, we need all the help we can get. It's been made immensely clear to us that there will be no help from on high. We're not taking super PAC money. We're not taking, we're not taking corporate money. And for that reason, we're relying on individual donors. Please donate what you can. I'm a guy that works with my hands. I know that even a buck to five bucks can sometimes be a lot. If you can give it, please give it. But the big thing that we need is you and your time, especially if you live in the state of Maine. So if you live in the state of Maine, or if you live elsewhere and you want a phone bank,

You want to help with volunteering behind the scenes. However it is, we need your help because we are trying to build legitimately a movement of people here, not just an old-fashioned political campaign. So, grant for Senate.com, donate what you can, but please volunteer if you can. That for me is the big one. Awesome. I'm going to put that link to your website right here on the screen and also in the post description. Highly recommend for anybody who's watching, who's looking to help, who knows that they're going to help in the 2026 election anyway. Do it now.

do it early. Give Graham the opportunity to define himself to the people of Maine before his opponents define him for him. So this is important to do it right now to get this money out right now when it matters most. So again, that link is on the screen and also in the post description. Graham, I appreciate your time. Best luck in the campaign trail. Hey, thank you, Brian. I really appreciate it. I'm joined now by Candidate for the U.S. Senate in Michigan. Abdul El-S. Ayyad. Abdul, thanks so much for joining me. Brian, it's always a privilege just not with news like this. To that point, have gotten news that Florida is going to work to eliminate all childhood vaccine mandates in the state. So first and foremost, your reaction to this move. And right off the top, can you give

folks who are watching who don't know you a little update in terms of your background? Yeah. So, Ryan, I'm a physician, epidemiologist. I rebuilt Detroit's Health Department as Health Commissioner. Most recently served Wayne County's Department of Health Human and Veteran Services and it's 1.8 million people leading public health for communities across our state. And as a former health director, here's the thing I want everybody to understand. But, you know, I could come at you as a public health doctor, but really just as a dad. When kids are born, their immune systems are not fully developed. And we can't even immunize them for these diseases that we protect folks from via vaccines, things like measles or mumps or rubella or polio until

they've matured to a certain level. And so we require people to be vaccinated because we understand that these are killer diseases and that when more people are vaccinated, the probability that people who cannot get vaccinated, whose immune systems cannot protect them, are protected against these diseases because of what we do as a society collectively. And for anybody in the name of public health to eliminate vaccine mandates is literally putting our most vulnerable people at risk of diseases who decades ago our grandparents would have looked at and said, oh my God, what are you guys thinking? And, you know, I think about my own grandparents who lined up for the SOC vaccine for polio. And I think, imagine what their parents would think

that if half a century later, their grandkids and their great caring kids would be turning against these incredible forms of technology that have saved literally millions and millions of lives. It makes zero sense to me. What do you attribute the hostility to? I think there's a profound amount of disinformation out there about vaccines. I think that that much is obvious. But I think what you've got is a movement of people that want to tell you that the things that protect you are actually dangerous and the things that can hurt you are actually benign and safe. You know, it's interesting. You think about somebody like Joseph Lado, and you think about what he is trying to warn you against. This is a guy who went to Harvard Medical School. He knows better.

But he's trying to tell you that somehow the vaccines that have protected. your parents and your parents' parents and should be protecting your kids or hurting you. And I don't see him talking about alligator alcatraz and the fact that our government is currently making it possible to kidnap you off the streets without telling you who they are or why they're kidnapping you just on the assertion that perhaps you may not be here legally. And the notion that as a public health official, you want people not to have to get vaccinated, but you're perfectly okay with involuntary detention of people in your own backyard, says everything I need to know about your values and your understanding of what it means to live

in a society where we protect ourselves and protect each other. So I want to put a clip right here on the screen of the Florida Surgeon General, who you were just alluding to, a comment that he made in an attempt to justify this move. Every last one of them is wrong and drips with disdain. and slavery, okay? Who am I as a government or anyone else? Or who am I as a man standing here now to tell you what you should put in your body? So his claim here is that somehow the vaccine mandates are akin to slavery. Can I just have your general reaction to this?

Yeah, slavery is when somebody can force you to do things with your body that you have no choice to do. And this is about protecting everybody as a collective from diseases that killed millions of people. Those two things are not the same. And the tell here is that slavery is about things like involuntary detention or forcing people because of the color of their skin to work in servitude to other people. And this very same individual has said not a peep about the ways that ICE is being used to steal people off the streets, mainly based on whether or not they fit a profile, which is of course, about the color of their skin. And so I find it not just disingenuous, but insulting to

the memory of slavery, that you would compare vaccines, that we developed as a society, and that have protected millions upon millions of our children so that they could live out the length of their lives and have the full ownership of healthy bodies throughout the length of their lives, that you would compare that to slavery when you're failing to take on the way that government is now literally robbing people of the use of their own bodies as a function of whether or not they fit a profile and the color of their skin. It says all you need to know about what values are driving this.

What do you say to folks in other states who may look at this and say, okay, well, at a bare minimum, at least this is just happening in Florida. And so, you know, whether I live in Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, or whether I live in New York, New Jersey, or California, I'm probably okay because look how far away this. is. What would you say to those folks in light of the move that we're seeing in Florida right now?

Look, I really wish that were true. But ideas, as the internet has shown us, also go viral. And what this does is it platforms a disinformation about, quote unquote, risk when it comes to vaccines that is furthering the kind of disinformation we saw really take hold during the pandemic, which is telling people that they should not vaccinate or that maybe they don't have to. And when that happens, more people all over the country choose not to vaccinate. And when that happens, we're creating space for the spread of viruses. You think about measles outbreaks, right? The idea that fewer people are going to get vaccinated in Florida increases the probability

that you have measles outbreaks out of Florida. Now, we all know that viruses travel pretty quickly, particularly in the era of air travel. And now that you have folks across different communities who are listening to this disinformation and potentially making really hazardous choices, the probability that a measles outbreak in a place like Florida can then travel and infect susceptible people in your community and therefore expose your kids, that just went up. And so unfortunately, infectious diseases teach us that we're all connected. And the thing that increases, the probability that viruses go viral is the mis and disinformation

that has gone viral, that has told folks that somehow the way to protect themselves is not to take vaccines that were developed specifically to protect people from these exact diseases. So you're obviously running for Senate in Michigan. How would you use your place in government if you're elected to push back against this kind of, you know, this whole new slew of disinformation as it relates to medicine and vaccine specifically? Yeah, you know, this move in Florida comes on the heels of great destruction of the CDC that has been dealt at the hands of RFK Jr., a guy who literally you wouldn't want to have to partner

with in science class because he's more likely. to light his own hair on fire than actually achieve the goals of the experiment you're supposed to do. And the Trump administration writ large and the destruction of our public health agencies, that is a national security issue that we are not soon going to recover from. And so as a U.S. Senator is the only U.S. senator who's a who would be a physician epidemiologist who's served as the health commissioner in a local community, I recognize that, A, we have to hold RFK Jr. accountable. I can't wait to haul his ass up and, A, ask him how he got our brainworm, but B, ask him why the hell he thinks it's okay to put us all in great harm by

devastating the public health infrastructure that has protected us in so many ways for so long. And then B, once we beat Donald Trump in 2028 in the MAGA movement, we're going to need leaders who have the understanding to be able to build what we need. And let's be clear, right? HHS hasn't been what it ought to be for a very long time. It hasn't been purpose fit. The answer isn't to destroy it and to try and lead according to some brainworm ideology instead of science. The answer is that it needed the kind of purposive reform that it deserves, that the American public deserves. And I think if there's any silver lining in this cloud, it's that we have an opportunity to build the kind of HHS, the kind of food and drug administration, the kind of

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the kind of national institutes of health that we as a country need for the 21st century. And I believe that my skill set puts me in a a good position to be able to lead at the helm of doing that. Now, as a country, we have to decide that science has given us a lot of pretty great things. Like, I get to talk to you from a room in Michigan and you're in a room in California. We get to talk in real time. That's because of science. And that's the same scientific process that delivered vaccines that teach our immune systems, how to defeat measles or defeat polio the minute we might be exposed to that virus. It's the same scientific process. And so the other part of this here is just fundamental science

literacy, right? And as someone who spent a lot of time in school, I think one of the big challenges we've had is that we have not really invested in the kind of science literacy that everybody should have as a function of graduating from high school in this country, graduating from sixth grade in this country. And clearly, RFK Jr., that both missed him, but it should be missing our kids. And so investing in the kind of education children need and deserve, I think that's part and parcel of building the kind of America where we understand the value of science rather than destroy scientific institutions. You'd mention that if you're in the U.S. Senate, you would be the only epidemiologist in the

Senate. There is another physician in the Senate, and that's Bill Cassidy. And ironically enough, he voted to confirm RFK Jr. when he had the power had he opted not to vote for him to prevent our health and human services sector, the CDC, and all of the other agencies beneath it from being under the leadership of RFK Jr. And so in light of what we're seeing right now, how do you think of this physician and senator who opted to hand over control of the entire health and human services sector over to somebody like RFK Jr.?

You know, the last time I was at the U.S. Senate, I was invited to testify about medical debt erasure. And I got to meet Bill Cassidy. He's a smart guy. And he is a trained physician. and he knows better. And so when people know better and still make a bad decision,

to me, it comes down to one thing, which is political cowardice. And we've seen that kind of political cowardice fully take over Republicans in both houses of Congress. But I gotta wonder, right, if you're somebody who spent four years learning how to be a caretaker of people

and an arbiter of scientific fact, how you sell that away just because you're afraid of what Donald Trump might do in your office, how you put somebody in a position of power whose ideology you know is inconsistent with everything you've ever learned and everything you've ever practiced, and you put them in a position to do something like destroy the incredible public health infrastructure that we have in this country. I'll be clear. I definitely disagreed with the way that the CDC led

during the COVID pandemic. I did not think that they were providing the kind of leadership to the level that I knew they could. But I also know all the other things that the CDC does. And all the ways they protect us in ways we don't even see. All the folks working in the biolabs to understand the infectious diseases that could affect us. All of the folks working in emergency response to take on measles outbreaks all over the country when they happen. All of the folks in the epidemiology intelligence service who are out there providing incredible insight to people who do public health on the ground in communities like Detroit and Wayne County where I served. And the notion that once in a lifetime pandemic, right? We could have wanted more from the CDC should be a reason you invest more

in the CDC and provide it with even better leadership, not a reason why you tear it down. Because guess what? It's not like the infectious diseases are back there thinking, ah, well, we already gave them COVID, so maybe we should wait a while. That's not how these things work. And so we are at risk. And I would tell you, we are far worse risk today than we were in December of 2019. Right. And I think that should give us all pause. Like I said, this is a national security issue. And somebody like Bill Cassidy should have had the wherewithal to put his training, his knowledge, his understanding, and his commitment to the American people in the oath that he took over putting somebody like RFK Jr. in a position to take a wrecking ball to an agency as important as the CDC.

Well, not just the oath he took as a U.S. Senator, but also the Hippocratic Oath, which is to first do no harm. And putting somebody like RFK Jr. in charge of our nation's health apparatus does the exact opposite. And that's playing out very predictably as we're seeing right now. Yeah. I took the same oath. And, you know, it's an amazing thing, right? Like, you expect a doctor to take that oath and take that oath seriously, certainly when they're seeing their patients. But almost every doctor I've ever met who's run for office, and I've met several of them by virtue of the fact that I'm a doctor who's running for office. They see their political work as a logical extension. We see our political work as a logical extent. We see our political work as a

logical extension of the work that we do taking care of people in our communities. And the notion that somehow you would put your worries and your anxiety about what Donald Trump might say about you ahead of that commitment, betrays. It betrays the reason you ran for office in the first place. And I, you know, someday somebody's going to have to explain to me what's so great about being a U.S. Senator. I mean, part of me is like, you know, I'm going to have to go hang out with people like Bill Cassidy and Chuck Grassley. Like, I don't see that as a walk in the park or a joyful afternoon. So, like, what's so important about keeping your seat that you're going to literally

give up on the reason you took the seat in the first place, which is to protect the public's health, which is to invest in a better, more secure America? I can't understand it. Well, look, I know that I speak on behalf of everybody who's watching right now in saying, like in a world where all of the headlines betray so much insanity as it relates to health care, to hear you speaking about this in a way that is sane and rational and reasonable is a breath of fresh air. And I know that the crazy voices often rise to the top because that's what breaks through in our media ecosystem. But it is exactly listening to you in a moment like this that kind of restores a little bit of faith in humanity.

And look, I say that as the son of two registered nurses. So I appreciate the time today. One last thing for folks who are looking to help your campaign, what can they do? Yeah, they can go to abdul for senate.com. And Brian, I appreciate you ending on that last note because your parents want to work every day to take care of people. And we owe them a debt of gratitude for the work that they do. And we owe them not to make their jobs harder and more dangerous. And I worry that that's the other side of it, is that we are making it harder to provide care

when we create a world where people are more likely to get sick. And that's the reason I'm running, which is I would rather live in a world where when people get sick, they get the health care they need, but that we are doing the work to protect them from getting sick in the first place. I think that's the thing that brings us to this work. And so I just really appreciate you, appreciate you creating a platform to have a sane and honest conversation about what this is and what the risks are. And I'm grateful always to get to join you in conversation. Thanks so much. Again, for those who are watching right now, if you'd like to donate, I'm going to put the link right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. Abdul,

thanks again for your time. Thank you, Brian. I appreciate you. I'm joining now for candidate for governor in Iowa, Rob Sand. Rob, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me. Happy to be here. So we have seen a lot of really exciting moves in Iowa as it relates to these recent special elections. The latest one showed the Democratic candidate Caitlin Dre winning by about a 20-point margin different from what we saw in 2024. So first and foremost, what's happening in Iowa and is it as red as I think we've been led to believe? Yeah, two really good questions, and I've got some very specific answers to them. As state auditor, you can imagine, I'm kind of a numbers guy, so I'll give you some numbers.

But credit to Caitlin, number one, right? She worked really hard. Yeah. But we've had a couple of really hardworking candidates. And Iowaans are fed up is the bottom line. And so a lot of people are reading about the race that Caitlin just won more than a 20 point overperformance from the expectation from the presidential race last fall. But that is the fourth race, the fourth special election in Iowa this year, and every single one of them have seen that 20 point over performance, every single one. which I think, and somebody should audit me on this,

I think that puts us as having four of the top five over performances in the naked, and we've only had four special elections. So, and I think that goes to say, you know, like Iowa isn't a state where people want to be defined by a color. We are a state where, you know, people look at the map and they're like, oh, the Republicans won,

but we lost the closest congressional race in American history in 2020. We lost the closest congressional defense for an incumbent Democrat in 2022. And then we had the highest overperformance, closest loss for a Democratic challenger in 2024, right? And then for the statewide down ballot races out of six races for state office, statewide state office in 2022, me and the attorney general and the state treasurer all hit at least 49% of the votes. So half Iowans went for three Democrats, three Republicans. This is not a state where people are allergic to voting for Democrats.

And so with the recent announcement from Senator Joni Ernst that she's not running for her Senate seat, what does that say about the broader environment right now in Iowa? I think she can read the writing on the wall. Yeah. Right? And I think that she understands, like, people here are fed up, people are fired up. I don't have a window into her thinking, but I think it's a good sign in general, you know, as you know, open seats are an opportunity for voters to really think about direction. You know, someone's saying, I'm hanging it up. Well, you got a real choice to make. And I think that's, I think that's good.

In your conversations with voters, and I'm specifically interested in folks who didn't or don't usually vote for Democrats, but how have those conversations gone? And I ask this because so much of how people think about voting, their political affiliation is often so closely aligned with their own identity. And I think that's by design, right? Like politicians want people to think like, okay, I'm an Iowan, I'm an American, I'm a Republican because it makes it that much more difficult to pull them away from just voting for any Republican, any person with an R-next their name when they get to the ballot box because that's who they are. And so how has that kind of manifested itself in your conversations with voters? So I always go back to this. You know, people say, oh, how did Iowa change after going for Barack Obama twice to go for Donald Trump three times? Iowa didn't change.

Those two guys have one important thing in common. They're both people who challenged their parties orthodoxy and said that they were going to do politics differently. And that resonates with a lot of Iowans. We actually have a pretty proud tradition in Iowa even going back past that with government reform things. or we have said, we don't like politics as usual. And so when I look at that, when I'm talking to Iowans, we're seeing people come out of the woodwork saying, we like Rob Sands campaign for governor.

I was walking around in a mall and had a guy who had never voted in his life. He's 28 years old. He said, I'm going to register to vote for you because I believe in the message that we should be bigger than Democrats versus Republicans, which is the heart of this campaign. I mean, if we've got a slogan, and it's not redder or bluer, but better and truer. There's a man who was in Governor Kim Reynolds' cabinet until very recently, who was

recommended for that job by U.S. Senator Joni Ernst, who wrote an op-ed about how disgusted he is with a state of politics in America, but he says, Sands' campaign for governor is talking about doing something about this in a way that even me, even as someone who's cynical and frustrated, thinks is very real and very genuine. And he's right. And then after the special election, you know, the Iowa Republican Party criticized the local Republicans. And they stood up for themselves. They said, no, we've worked really hard. And a county supervisor from up there, a Republican, put a video out and said very plainly, whether you're Democrat, independent, or Republican, the policy that's coming out of Des Moines is garbage. And he spoke for two minutes about the gutting of the auditor's office, right? We had found a record amount of misspent money in my first term as the state auditor. And the answer to that from the insiders in Des Moines was literally pass a law to make it easier to hide misspent money from the auditor's office. And this guy's just going off on that. And he said he thinks I'm going to

win the race. I just think that people have been looking at what's going on in Des Moines with 10 years of Republican control and they are fed up. And that's not exclusive to Democrats and Independence. It's a lot of Republicans too. And I think the way I think about it, it tends to be more of like this is really a question of insiders versus outsiders or public servants versus politicians and people are starting to, I think, see it more as that rather than just the Democrat or Republican piece of identity that you're talking about. You mentioned this idea of doing things differently. What does that look like for your campaign? I mean, number one, this is differently than most politicians, but I've been doing it every year since I ran the first time. I do 100 public

town halls every single year. I tell people in advance that we're coming. And so this year we actually announced all 100 stops on the same day like a rock band. Here's our tour all the way through October. And, you know, we say Democrats, independents, Republicans, everybody's welcome. We start the events by actually having people raise their hand for their party affiliation. We clap for each other and then we sing the first verse of America, the beautiful together. It's really wonderful. But the bigger piece of that to me, I think, is the way I've done the work in the office of the state auditor. The most senior positions

in the office I filled with an independent and a Republican who had made campaign contributions to my opponent. But I want to have people around who think differently than me because I think that's actually helpful. We have done more to criticize

people in my own party or defend people in the other party when it's the right thing to do than anybody else in the state. And I think people notice that. So if you ask Iowans, how's the state auditor doing? Two-thirds of them will have an opinion of that. And of the people who have got an opinion, 80%, say they like the work that we're doing. Yeah. Rob, how does this moment in particular in the aftermath of the Biden presidency, but also watching, you know, a lot of a lot of septagenarians and octogenarians either

announce their retirements or pass away in office, I mean, starting from Ruth Bader Ginsburg to Jerry Connolly. Obviously, you know, Biden's age was a huge issue in this last election. How does the idea of generational change make you think about this moment that you're in right now? I think people are ready for it. I'm one of the people that before Biden announced his plans, I said, we should have age limits. And the age limit that I picked, yes, would have made him too old. And the Iowa Supreme Court, when you hit 72, they say it's just mandatory retirement. Thank you for your service. Enjoy your retirement. You know, we should do this. that. And I think people are fed up. I think they're ready for the next generation of leaders.

And I think a big piece of that is just sort of having this sense of like wholesale brokenness for the political system. And when people look at that, I do think they understand that some of that has to do with the people who are there who have been there for too long. And I talk about this too in terms of the Democratic Party, right? I don't like the idea that we can only have two choices on our ballot. And it leads to complacency. It leads to people who feel like, oh, I'm in entitled to this elected office just because I have the right letter behind my name and I live in the right neighborhood or the right county. And so I'm just going to have this. And then they don't have to solve our problems because there's no real competition for the job. I think that's one of the

biggest problems that we face right now. It's like the base level problem. Pick a problem, right? Mental health issues, education issues, our economy. The reason that we don't have more effective, more frequent addressing of those issues is because elected officials know as solving problems is hard, demonizing my opponent to get reelected as easy. In your conversations with voters, and I'm asking this question because so much of what we see is dictated by Beltway journalists and pundits, in your conversations with folks in your state, what's been the most resonant issue? What are you hearing kind of like on the most constant basis is the thing that is moving voters

one way or the other? I do really think that high costs is a focus of real concern for people affordability. I keep hearing about people whose health insurance premiums are going up double digits. Beyond that, in the state of Iowa, I think there's three issues that here are pretty unique, but resident. People are concerned about water quality. Here in the state of Iowa, we've got very high nitrate levels. People are concerned about education. We just passed this school vouchers bill that has no oversight for hundreds of millions

dollars that's getting spent. Yeah. And again, I go back to just this sort of red flag of ridiculousness of, oh, the auditor's doing his job, let's make it harder for him to find that money. It's like, it just, people's faces turn when you tell them about their bill, that bill. You know, they're just, they're so angry about it. And it's not a thing that they think about all the time, but it's something that when you remind them of it, you're just like, right, these people are done.

Throw the bums out. Yeah. Rob, how can folks who are watching? listening, help your campaign. RobSand.com. If you want to join us and pitch in, that's great. We'd love to have your support. You can volunteer.

You can donate at robshand.com. And I would just echo that for anybody who's watching, something is happening in Iowa. If ever there was a cycle to usher in some real change here, this is it. Also important to donate early. If anybody's considering donating and you're wondering whether it's worth it to do it now

or to do it closer to the election, the closer we get to the election, the more expensive everything gets, everything gets, the more saturated everything gets, the more inundated everybody gets, and the more time the other party will have to define Rob. So offering up these contributions now, donating to his campaign now allows him to define himself so that there isn't a vacuum created where his opponents can define him. So again, I'll put that link right here on the screen and also in the post-scription of this video. Rob, thanks for taking the time. Best luck in the campaign trail. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having

Brian. Appreciate it. Thanks again to Tommy, Graham, Abdul, and Rob. That's a for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating in a review.

And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to Brian Tyler Cohen.com to learn more.