No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Eric Swalwell on DeJoy facing charges for sabotaging USPS

Episode Date: August 16, 2020

Trump’s Postmaster General Louis DeJoy continues his efforts to dismantle the Postal Service and Democrats push back with force. Congressman Eric Swalwell joins again to discuss ensuring that the USPS gets funded, whether Trump and DeJoy have criminal liability for this scheme, and about the formation of a Presidential Crimes Commission after Trump leaves office.Written by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CAhttps://www.briantylercohen.com/podcast/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we're going to talk about Trump's postmaster general Louis DeJoy's continued efforts to dismantle the Postal Service and the pushback he's finally facing by Democrats. And my interview with Congressman Eric Swalwell, where we discuss how to ensure that the USPS gets funded, as well as whether Trump and DeJoy have criminal liability for this scheme. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So apparently Trump's efforts to sabotage the postal service are not going to be a fleeting story. Right? And on one hand, I'm glad that this is getting concentrated attention across every media outlet and isn't just some daily scandal that Trump pulls off and gets away with. On the other hand, the fact that it is getting so much attention is a testament to the fact that what's happening is really, really bad. Like, I've only seen this kind of prolonged and focused media attention on one thing a handful of times. like when Trump tried to repeal Obamacare, when he nominated Kavanaugh,

and obviously his failed response to the pandemic. All of these were major events and all wildly unpopular with the majority of the American people. So last week I spoke about the joy having consolidated power at USPS, pushing out two dozen top-tier executives. I also spoke about the Trump team having considered a bunch of executive actions to undermine mail and voting, like forcing the post office to not deliver certain ballots and stop it. election officials from counting ballots that arrive after election day. Those were bad. I called the situation a five-alarm fire, but what's happened this week just blows all of that out of the water. So this week, we learned that DeJoy has decommissioned

671 sorting machines, which accounts for 10% of the Postal Service's inventory. Those machines have the capacity to sort 21.4 million pieces of paper mail per hour. And this is happening at the same time that Americans are gearing up to mail tens of millions of ballots that need to arrive in a timely matter. There is no way that you could be a sane, rational person, and not recognize that the intent here, the sole intent, is to make sure that the Postal Service won't be able to handle election mail. And then, like clockwork, we learned that the USPS sent letters to 46 states plus Washington, D.C., warning that it cannot guarantee that all mail-in ballots are going to arrive in time for the November election. And not just a few million of the roughly 234 million Americans

who could vote by mail, 226 million are in jeopardy of being impacted. That leaves a whopping 8 million who are in the clear. So hey, nothing to worry about. You only have a 96% chance of being disenfranchised. Which brings me back to my first point. This seems like a really bad time to start decommissioning sorting machines, doesn't it? This would be like if we started sending all of our PPE to China just as coronavirus started spreading across the world. Like, the joke is that we literally did that. And finally, here's the kicker because then the Postal Service began removing mailboxes, physically removing them.

It's almost comical. Like, how much more on-the-nose voter suppression can you get than taking away the literal mailboxes? Not only are they fighting in court to prevent us from voting safely by mail during a pandemic, not only are they purposefully creating logistical delays in the mail delivery, but they are taking the mailboxes away. It's like the trolling phase of voter suppression that even if you do manage to get your ballot and fill it out and prep it to send back, good luck finding a mailbox because they stole them all. And by the way, we don't even have to pretend anymore that the intent of all this is anything other than sabotaging the election.

because Donald Trump, resident genius, admitted that the whole point of starving the agency of funding was to ensure that the USPS wouldn't be able to handle mail-in ballots for the election. They want $3.5 trillion billion for the mail-in votes, okay, universal mail-in ballots.

They want $25 billion for the post office. Now, they need that money in order to have the post office work so it can take all of these. millions and millions of ballots. Now, in the meantime, they aren't getting there. By the way, those are just two items. But if they don't get those two items,

that means you can't have universal mail-in voting because they're not equipped to have it. Here's the thing. As Americans, we just assume that this kind of stuff can't happen here, right? Like, our schemas don't allow us to accept that this would be a reality in the United States of America. And so when we finally do come to accept it,

Trump's already 10 steps ahead because we spent so much time just coming to terms with it. What we have to realize is that just because the corruption happens out in the open doesn't mean it's less corrupt. So when Trump says on Fox News that he's going to starve the USPS of funding because he wants to make sure that the agency can't handle mail-in ballots, we have to be able to acknowledge that that is right out of the authoritarian playbook. And not only can it happen here, but it is happening here. It doesn't have to be behind closed doors or under the cloak of darkness.

Sometimes it's just right there on TV. So I want to switch gears here for a sec because I think some background is important. I want to talk about why the Postal Service is in the financial situation that it's in and how it's not an accident and how this didn't start with Donald Trump, although, you know, that doesn't in any way diffuse his responsibility. The Postal Service had been running smoothly from its inception until basically, until basically 2006, when the Republican-led Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act, and it was signed to law by George W. Bush, and it required the Postal Service

to pre-fund the next 75 years of its pensions. Pensions would normally be funded as they went, right? They'd pull out of their pension fund and add to it as retirees costs came in. But with this new law, the next 75 years of pensions had to be funded in full, and it had to be done immediately. Just so we're clear, this isn't done anywhere else. No one's pension in any company is pre-funded. You pay into it, just like you pay into your Social Security and you pay into your Medicare, just like you pay off your mortgage payments. Think of it like this. Imagine you were renting an apartment and your landlord mandated that you pay the next 30 years of rent up front. If you had 30 years of rent up front, you wouldn't need to live in an apartment. So it doesn't

make any sense. Just like pre-funding 75 years of retiree benefits doesn't make sense. The point of these funds is that they're added to over time. So even though no other entity has to pre-fund pensions and to do it 75 years out, no less, the Postal Service suddenly had to put away an extra $5.6 billion a year to do this. And lo and behold, it took all of six years before the USPS began defaulting on its obligations. By 2016, the Postal Service had lost $62.4 billion. Even its own Inspector General admitted that the cause of that was pre-funding its retiree benefits. And worse, the law also required the Postal Service to invest its retiree funds exclusively in government bonds,

which will give you the lowest returns of any investment. So even the insane directive to sock away billions of dollars was exacerbated by the fact that the Postal Service couldn't even make any money on those funds because the government forced the service to buy its own bonds. So they got doubly screwed over. But the purpose of these rules was to hobble the Postal Service because Republicans have always wanted to privatize it. And so they did what they always do.

They created a problem and then pointed to that problem that they themselves created as proof that the agency should be privatized. They literally governed by mismanagement. And here's the thing, too. even if the post office wasn't being sabotaged by Republicans by forcing the agency to pre-fund pensions 75 years out, the post office is not a business. It's a service.

It doesn't need to be profitable. The military isn't profitable. Libraries aren't profitable. Public schools aren't profitable. I know it's going to be tough for Republicans to wrap their minds around this, but not everything has to make money. Sometimes things can exist so that society, can function. Sometimes a billionaire CEO isn't necessary. I know that that's insane, right? Oh,

and by the way, while we're on the subject of DeJoy's efforts to turn the ship around and institute these absolutely critical changes at the post office, which again, have been running smoothly for over 200 years, you know how much all of these austerity measures like eliminating overtime and reducing transportation costs? You know how much they're going to save the agency? $200 million. That's what all of this is for, $200 million. The government spent $1.7 billion last year maintaining empty buildings. That's not a joke. Trump's golf habit alone has cost nearly $140 million.

But apparently, we're about to let the most popular service in the country fail 80 days before when we need it most because we need to save what amounts to basically a rounding error in the federal budget. completely insane, and none of this was lost on the American people or on Congress, which is why, finally, it looks like there are consequences for DeJoy on the horizon. The Post Office Inspector General is now reviewing DeJoy's policy changes and possible conflicts of interest after a request by Elizabeth Warren. Aside from that, there have been references to the U.S. Code, which states that it's a felony to delay the mail, and DeJoy will hide behind this excuse that, you know, he's not delaying it. He's making it more efficient. But just saying it's efficient when it's not doesn't make it true. Then you have House Democrats who are

threatening to use their inherent contempt powers to bring the joy in to testify. He's supposed to come in on September 17th, but I think it's been made abundantly clear that waiting another month isn't going to cut it. Democratic lawmakers are even calling for the sergeant-at-arms to arrest the joy if he refuses to come in. And I got to be honest, hearing Democrats finally use language that shows that they're willing to fight to actually fight is so welcome and so necessary. I cannot remember a time when Democrats didn't take the high road. When we didn't just sit idly by and watch as Mitch McConnell wrote the rules as he went.

So there is honestly nothing I like seeing more than Democrats threatening to use every lever of government available to them for once. So regardless of what route is taken What's clear here is that this isn't going away That the Democrats are completely unified in their efforts to address this And that both the joy and Trump have criminal exposure here And those are all good things But with that said, I know a lot of you feel really discouraged Like it doesn't matter anymore

What's the point? Or votes aren't going to count They're not even going to get there But for Trump, that's the point That's what he wants. He wants so much distrust and chaos that you don't believe that voting is going to make a difference. He's relying on you giving up. So I would just say, don't give him the satisfaction. Don't validate his entire strategy.

You got to remember that no matter how much distrust and confusion and pandemonium the guy causes, when your vote arrives, it's going to get counted, period. And if he loses, he's out, period. Forget the threats of calling it a rigged election. forget the calls for delays, forget all of his bullshit. Underneath all of it, just know that they will count those votes and a winner will be named. And if it's Joe Biden, then Trump's term expires on January 20th, 2021. And he will no longer be president.

He wants you to think that it's futile. But I promise you that his temper tantrums aren't going to have any material impact on the election results. So for us, we have a job. And I will repeat this every week if I have. have to. If you're voting by mail, request your ballot as soon as possible, and when you get it, fill it out and stick it right back in the mailbox. Or bring it to a drop box if your locality has them, or bring it to the election office and drop it off in person. No matter how inconvenient they make it, you make sure you vote. And you make sure your family does

the same. Be responsible for your entire household. You make sure that every one of those ballots ends up where it needs to end up. That is our last final job. And they're going to make it seem impossible, but it's not. It just means that we have to stay focused. Next up is my interview with Congressman Swalwell. So we'll talk about what Congress is doing to ensure that the Postal Service gets funded, whether Trump and DeJoy have criminal exposure here, and his new announcement about a presidential crimes commission

and the impact that it will have on Trump after he leaves office. Okay, today we have Congressman Eric Swalwell. Thanks so much for coming back on. Of course, of course. Thanks for having me back. So Title 18 U.S. Code 1703A says that a U.S. postal officer who delays any letter shall be fined under this title or in prison not more than five years or both. What Louis DeJoy is doing is a delay. The mail is being delayed. He can pretend he's making it more efficient, but saying those words doesn't make it true, right? Our mail is already being delayed. So how is this not a crime? The postmaster general is enabling a corrupt president right now. And it's more. than simply mail-in ballots that are going to be affected. And don't get me wrong, mail-in

balloting, you know, which is at the core of our democracy, it enables everyday citizens to have their voices heard. That's important. However, 330,000 veterans who receive their VA prescriptions every single day are threatened by this. And I'm getting a flood of calls from my constituents right now who are saying that their prescription drugs are being delayed. So, I mean, this is truly it's life and death for our democracy, and it's also life and death for our personal health. And it's not just medications. It's business owners rely on the mail for timely delivery to their customers. Bills have to be paid by a certain date. Otherwise, people incur late fees. I was just talking to a small business owner this morning who told me that they are

reimbursed by insurance companies for the services they provide. And they're worried about, you know, what these delays are going to be. So yes, I mean, it is so much a part of, you know, our day-to-day lives. This is one of the oldest and longest standing and most trusted agencies of our government. They've gotten us through the Civil War, World Wars. There's no reason they can't do this now. They need to continue to fully operate. By the way, I think I just wanted to point out that when Trump points out the fact that we've always been able to vote in person during World War I and World War II, why wouldn't we have been able to vote in person? during World War I and World War II, those wars didn't occur on American soil.

So he points to those things as if it's some like gotcha moment that like, oh, we've been able to vote during World War I, like, were we worried about shrapnel from Normandy, hitting people in, you know, in New Jersey? That's right. But the Civil War, right? I mean, the mail still functioned during the Civil War. And actually, mail and ballots, you know, were allowed, you know, for troops serving during the Civil war. And a soldier in Afghanistan has been able to vote through mail-in balloting. And as you know,

that goddamn president of the United States votes with a mail-in ballot. And so it's so hypocritical that if it's good enough for him, he thinks it shouldn't be good enough for you. And that's just frustrating. And the difference between this president and other presidents who have faced re-election is he's probably the first one who will likely face criminal charges. if he is not reelected. And so the incentive to sabotage the election is very, very powerful. And that's what we're seeing play out right now. I do want to speak about that with regard to Trump.

But before I do, I want to stick with DeJoy for a minute. Do you think that DeJoy will face charges? Well, let me say this, because I think a good question that I'm seeing from my constituents and people on social media is what is Congress going to do. So I hope we have hearings within the next 72 hours that, you know, when, the new week starts that we are able in some way to, you know, get some folks from the post office before Congress. I hope we can vote also in the next week, you know, to fully fund the post office. You know, I know things are moving fast and our leadership is considering what the best

course of action is. But we hear you. I hear you. And I know my colleagues, you know, are talking about, you know, what is the best way to respond to this. Now, the obstacle, of course, is we could do all of that. But Mitch McConnell has refused in every effort we have made through COVID relief, he has refused to fund the Postal Service. And the president has also said he won't do it in earlier this week. He said, well, if $25 billion means they can do mail and ballots, I'm not going to do it. So, you know, we can do all of that. But people really, really need to call their Republican senators and really get in front of those senators and force them to convene because we've already actually passed in the Heroes Act funding for the Postal Service. So it really is on

the Senate. But as to your question, could he face criminal charges? You know, I think in the next administration, we need a presidential crimes commission made up of independent prosecutors, and they should look at anyone who enabled a corrupt president. And this, to me, is almost exhibit one. With the board of governors who are basically responsible for ensuring that Lewis DeJoy would keep his job, do they have criminal liability in keeping him in his position in that he's actively undermining the goal of the post office? Yeah. So, you know, That's an interesting question. Again, I'll go back to, I don't want to be the one, you know, determining, you know, what the crimes are. I was a prosecutor. I mean, there are different theories of, you know, liability when you know, enable corruption. But I just, what I want to propose is that we look at everything and sabotaging the mail and anyone involved in it, I do think, you know, should be considered, you know, for prosecution. And at least have objective prosecutors look at what they, engaged in. I mean, the mail is so essential to our daily lives and for a president to weaponize it

for his own political fortune. I mean, that's the height of corruption in a democracy. Right. And I think, you know, the part that's going to make it a little bit more difficult for them to claim that that's not the case is that Donald Trump, in his infinite wisdom, admitted it. Yeah. Admitted that that was the goal. That's exactly right. So, but we're not helpless. I don't want people, you know, to just panic and think there's nothing we can do. Again, there's a lot Congress has to do immediately, but there's a lot that we all can do, including, as I said, registering friends and family, having that plan to vote, save this country. It's worth redeeming and it's worth building better. So I know there's a, you know, a $25 billion stimulus bill in the

pipe. Regardless of the specific bill, the point is that relief has to be passed for the American people. Like there's no way that we can go on with zero relief as we're as we continue to be mired in this pandemic and economic recession. So knowing that, regardless of what bill it is, whether it's, you know, the Heroes Act or or a new bill, is there any way to attach USPS funding to this bill along with guardrails that basically mandate that any money should go to paying overtime for for USPS employees, for example? So yes. And again, that is essentially what the Heroes Act does. And in the Post Heroes Act, because it passed, you know, over three months ago, negotiations, we've continued to insist that we fund the post office now. We also believe that as we

approach, you know, government funding, because by September 30, the government funding will run out and we're going to have to, you know, plan post-September 30. As we have those budget talks, we're going to, again, use the power of the purse and leverage the majority we have if we haven't solve the problem by then. So, you know, we're, we're going to continue to press on this. But right now, we need to make sure we protect USPS whistleblowers and give them the space to come forward and tell the public, you know, what they're seeing, but really, really call on Republican senators to bring this to a vote. And, you know, I can only speak for myself and obviously try to echo a lot of the voices that I see online and people that I know. But I do hope that you

guys all hold the line on that, because whether it's a bill or whether it's regular funding for the government, that will likely be our only chance to save the postal service. And if it's passed without USPS funding or a mandate on how to use those funds specifically, that could basically mean conceding defeat and letting the election get sabotaged. And obviously, Republicans know that. They do. And also, they know that by putting this issue front and center, even if they don't actually shut down the Postal Service, they are creating confusion right now. And the fact that people may wonder, will my ballot be processed? Maybe I won't fill it out because all of these issues. Maybe I just won't participate. That's a success in and of itself for the president. And he knows that.

Yeah. But what Republican, again, like, just ask yourself right now, take a step back from your, you know, fidelity to Donald Trump. Ask yourself, how good does it feel to know that a senior's medication is being delayed because you want to help the president win an election that he probably is going to lose otherwise. I mean, I can't imagine that that feels good and that they're willing to go that far in their loyalty to Donald Trump to enable his corruption, that they're going to let people literally not get their medicine, especially our veterans. It's just sick. I don't think you have a better reason to eliminate this entire slate of Republicans than for that right there. I mean, these people have shown, you know, they've proven behind a shadow of the doubt,

while attacking the constitutionally enshrined post office that there's no lengths they won't be willing to go to protect Donald Trump. So, I mean, this Republican party, this Republican caucus is completely tainted, like beyond repair. They don't have principles anymore. They have, you know, just further aiding and abetting, you know, of his crimes. That's what they're doing. And they're abandoning, you know, their prior beliefs for the latest, you know, tactic of the day. to protect Donald Trump and they're going to pay a price. Again, it's just a matter of do people have access, you know, to be able to vote. But get your voting plan together now, you know, really have a plan.

If the Postal Service is functioning and you want to vote from home, make that your first priority. If it's not functioning because the president has sabotaged it, you know, find out where you're polling places and find out how you can, you know, budget the time to get there and take friends and family members as well. But people really need to get a plan right now because, You may have to go two or three levels down from what you thought it was going to be because of the efforts underway to keep you from voting. And something that we've seen in, you know, if you look at Wisconsin, for example, when you have egregious outright Republican efforts to undermine voting, we've seen that it backfires on Republicans. You look at the Supreme Court race in Wisconsin where they closed all, but I think it was four polling places in Milwaukee in an effort to, you know, suppress the votes of Democratic voters.

Look how that turned out. We have a Democrat who just took the Supreme Court. Yeah, people, Brian, they're going to turn out, especially in the year that we've lost John Lewis and are reminded, you know, what people have sacrificed for the right to vote. People right now, I think, you know, will, you know, walk over glass, crawl through fire, do whatever it takes. They just need to know where to go. And that's why, you know, we need to have a, you know, multi-layer plan. in case, you know, what we typically expected is not available. And so, but we're going to fight like hell right now to protect the post office. And as I said, I hope congressional hearings in the

next couple days, I hope at least, you know, in the next week that we could have a vote on the House side just on postal service funding. But there's a lot we can do. So speaking of John Lewis, why not make this a big spectacle? Why not host a sit-in like the one that John Lewis led protesting guns on the floor of Congress? Like force Republicans to go on record. and defend sabotaging agency that 91% of American support. This is the mail. Like, you and I both know that the GOP would grind the government to a halt if the roles were reversed.

So why not go to the wall for this? Like, if we can't win legally, why not at least win in the court of public opinion? Yeah, and you're right. And what I'm doing is I'm going to, you know, a local post office to, you know, tour it and also hold, you know, kind of a physically distanced rally around the Postal Service. I know my colleagues are planning those. as well, you know, in the coming weeks. But I do think we have to, you know,

keep everything on the table as far as, you know, what we can do to elevate this issue. So DeJoy is set to testify before the oversight committee on September 17th. I hope that's sooner. Yeah, I hope that's sooner. And what's the goal of this? What do we expect to come out of this testimony? Yeah, you know, sunshine is the best disinfectant. And so being able to shine a light on, you know, corruption, that brings awareness, you know, for the American people.

It also answers questions, you know, that we've had. And, you know, also between now and whenever he does testify, we're getting more and more whistleblower accounts so that we can call out, you know, any bullshit excuses that they're giving for why they can't perform the duty of delivering the mail. You know, the people who work at the post office, whether it's a, you know, postal worker, you know, at a facility or a letter carrier, they take so much pride in what they do. They treat your mail as if they are delivered.

delivering it to their own family. And, you know, we really need to support them and give them, as I said, the space to come forward and tell us the truth about what's going on in the inside. And by the way, we just heard that one of the postal workers unions with 300,000 members has just come out in support of Biden. So, I mean, it just seems kind of counterintuitive that Donald Trump would attack the very people who are in charge of making sure that those ballots are delivered on election day. Like, if ever you've had a vested interest in making sure the mail gets delivered, it's fighting against the guy who is, you know, attacking your very livelihood. That's right. And again, Donald Trump's vested interest is always Donald Trump. And as I

said, what we have to understand, unlike any president under, unlike any honest election we've had in the past, he is motivated by also not going to jail. That is what most dictators are motivated by. Rachel Maddow had a wonderful segment a couple nights ago where she pointed out that there are no ex-dictators, that there's no off-ramp from, you know, presiding corruptly that is one where you would enjoy, you know, freedom and liberty. And I think the president knows that, that he is exposed to crimes. The Manhattan DA's office is, you know, pursuing criminal charges against him. He is individual one. Mueller described 10 different crimes that he committed. Who knows what else we will learn. John Bolton described crimes in his book. And so he will

desperately try to hold on to power just like any other dictator prior to, you know, our times and those who serve so corruptly right now. And that's what we're up against. That's why it's so important that we all have a plan to make sure our voices are heard on November 3. So that's a good segue into what you were speaking about earlier, the Presidential Crimes Commission. Can you expand a little bit on that and what that would cover? Yeah. So I believe that for any administration official who has enabled the president, you know, to commit crimes to be held accountable, it has to be perceived by the public as legitimate and independent and free from politics. It can't be perceived as retaliatory. And so my hope is that we can stand up a commission of independent prosecutors

to look, to take an MRI to all the crimes that potentially have been committed. and make recommendations on, you know, prosecutions. I do believe you're going, it may take a little bit longer, but it will have the weight of independence, which is going to be so important, because the last thing I think anyone wants is for, you know, the next administration to politicize the Department of Justice in the way that this administration has. Right. And would any prosecutions that come out of this commission, would they have teeth or does this have to be just kind of investigated and then referred to a U.S. Attorney's Office like SDNY. Yeah, so what I'm looking at right now is, you know, how functionally this would work.

You know, would it be hand and glove with the DOJ or would they make recommendations and DOJ could carry them out? You know, I hope to have a recommendation to my colleagues, you know, in the next a couple weeks on that. But I do believe, you know, people in the administration right now need to know if you are committing crimes, we are not going to look the other way when this administration, you know, when the sun sets on this administration, that you will be held accountable. And again, I don't want politicians to decide what, you know, what the crimes are and who the

people are. I do think there should be independence and prosecutions. But when you look at what independent prosecutors have already recommended that the president can't be charged with because he's sitting in the Oval Office, it's clear that, you know, there's a lot of exposure out there. I think making it clear that it's independent is especially important because you know that Republicans and Fox News are just going to pretend that it's, you know, the left hates Trump and not because he committed a slew of actual and legitimate and proven crimes. That's right. And I don't want to go anywhere near any commission like that. Again, I want them to

have independence. And if they say there were no crimes committed, great. I hope that's what they say. But if they say that, you know, there were, I hope that people are held accountable. And I hope that the postmaster general really, you know, looks himself in the mirror and asks, you know, do I really want to have to answer for what I'm doing right now or should I do the honorable thing and allow the hardworking men and women at the Postal Service to do their job and help the seniors who are counting on them? So Americans feel helpless right now. We've persevered through all of the bullshit. You know, the kids in cages, the destruction of our alliances, the coddling of dictators, the pandemic, the recession, all of it. Our last vestige of hope basically comes from the

promise of a free and fair election. And now we're watching that basically. you know, be put in danger, get taken away. So what can we do? What's your advice to, to kind of Americans around the country who are scared and feel discouraged? I harken back to John Lewis, you know, do not drown in a sea of despair, you know, believe that if we're all up, you know, for causing that good trouble, that change will come. It may not be as easy as it should be. But as I said, count on your representatives, you know, continue to communicate to your representatives, keep the pressure on us to do something in the short term. But, you know, for the next 80-some-odd days, you know, put your own plan together, how you're going to register others, how you're going to

find your way, you know, to the ballot box because that's where all the change is going to come. But I'm still hopeful that we are resilient. We know what's at stake. And we see, you know, the light at the end of this darkness. And it is a better America. And we will get there. And finally, I want to talk about Kamala Harris as the vice president. nominee, what do you think that the choice for Kamala as VP means for the race? Well, it's a historic choice, but beyond, you know, the history of, you know, her background is the first, you know, African-American, Indian-American woman to be nominated. She's also immensely qualified to be a president if she should have to be.

I saw in California when she was attorney general of the largest state in the country during the worst economic time up until the pandemic, that she fought for homeowners who were defrauded by mortgage companies and was responsible for securing the largest settlement in the country on behalf of those homeowners from the banks that defrauded them. And she was tough. She was patient. She was determined. And she got a better deal than other attorneys general who negotiated settlements far less than what she was able to obtain. And that says a lot about who she knows she's fighting for. And so I'm excited for her candidacy, a personal point of pride. She and I both started our careers in the same district attorney's office,

the Alameda County District Attorney's Office, where the creed in that office was essentially we don't seek wins, we seek justice. You know, winning and losing was not as important as making sure that justice was served, even if that meant dismissing a case or resolving a case, you know, so somebody, you know, could get a second chance or going hard at a case because somebody needed to be held accountable. That was, you know, the creed of the office. She knows that. I've seen that, you know, in her throughout her career, and that's going to serve the country well. And I also think it's a unity ticket, right? Whether they were rivals on the primary stage or Joe Biden's first job right out of law school, public defender. Kamala Harris's first job, prosecutor. I mean,

it's unity in every way. And also, I think, you know, to speak to that point, Republicans and Trump in particular can't wrap his mind around why somebody, Kamala Harris, who was critical of Joe Biden, why he would bring her on. And that just kind of speaks to the fact that all Trump cares about is loyalty, whereas Joe Biden recognized that Kamala Harris is a fighter and she's somebody worthy of getting on that ticket. And if she was tough on Biden, just imagine how tough she's going to be on Trump. That's absolutely right. Again, he doesn't see things through the lens of what's good for the country. He sees them through what's good for Donald Trump. And if you insult

Donald Trump or you even question his judgment, you are not good for Donald Trump. Yeah. And you're out. And I have to say, you know, Joe Biden called me right when I dropped out of the presidential race. And, you know, during the debate, I, you know, made a case for passing the torch to the next generation. And for him to call me and say, look, my promise to you is that if I'm president, I'm going to do all I can to enable young leaders so that we do pass the torch of leadership. That says a lot about who he is. He doesn't have an ego. And I know he was sincere when he said it. I know he will do it when he puts his team together. That's really well said. Well, Congressman, thank you so much for taking the time. Of course, I've got a lot of work to do until November. So thank you,

Brian. Thanks again to Congressman Swalwell. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wells, interviews edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nick Nicotera and recorded in Los Angeles, California. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app. Feel free to leave a five-star rating and a review and check out Brian Tyler Cohen.com for links to all of my other channels.