No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - "Fled Cruz"

Episode Date: February 21, 2021

Texas' power grid fails, Texans are now contending with surging electricity bills, and Ted Cruz flees the scene. Brian interviews the host of Fox LA’s “The Issue Is” Elex Michaelson about whether this situation will have an impact on Ted Cruz’s future and whether polarization means that politicians can basically do anything without political consequences.Written by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CAhttps://www.briantylercohen.com/podcast/Follow Elex Michaelson on Twitter: @Elex_MichaelsonSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we're going to talk about the crisis in Texas and the surprise bills that Texans are now facing. Ted Cruz is less than ideal response. And my interview with the host of Fox LA's The Issue is Alex Michelson, where we talk about whether this situation will have an impact on Ted Cruz's future and whether polarization means that politicians can basically do anything without political consequences. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So let's start off with the crisis in Texas. An unprecedented Arctic blast has sent temperatures in the entire center of the country plummeting,

which Texas was the least prepared for because the state's power grid failed. It left Texans with no heat, water pipes froze and eventually burst, homes were destroyed, people were dying from hypothermia. So in a nutshell, what happened is that Texas is the only state in the country with a deregulated power grid because Republicans revel in deregulation. And so they failed to winterize their equipment, which regulation would have presumably mandated, and as a result, the equipment froze. And so far, the state's Republican leaders have blamed the Electric Reliability Council of Texas or Aircott,

I'm sure you've heard people talking about, the Democrats and the Green New Deal for their own failure to keep Texans safe. Here's a thing. Texas is a Republican state. They have a Republican governor, a Republican lieutenant governor, two Republican senators, a Republican state Senate, and a Republican state house. There is no Green New Deal. And if there was, I'm pretty sure that Texas wasn't the first state to volunteer. to adopt it.

Pretty sure the Green New Deal's pilot program isn't based in Midland. So to blame the Green New Deal that quite literally doesn't exist is a testament to how unwilling these people are to take responsibility for their own failures. They even blame renewables. Here's Texas Governor Greg Abbott trashing renewables during an appearance on Hannity. Sean, this shows how the Green New Deal would be a deadly deal for the United States of America. Texas is blessed with multiple sources of energy, such as natural gas and oil and nuclear, as well as solar and wind.

But you saw from what Trace said, and that is our wind and our solar got shut down, and they were collectively more than 10% of our power grid. And that thrust Texas into a situation where it was lacking power in a statewide basis that was power that was spread out by that ERCOT organization that you were talking about. As a result, it just shows that fossil fuel is necessary for the state of Texas, as well as other states to make sure that we will be able to heat our homes in the wintertime and cool our homes in the summertime. Only wind power accounts for less than a quarter of Texas's power grid.

And wind shutdowns only accounted for about 13% of total outages, while the vast, vast majority was thermal sources, meaning natural gas, coal, and nuclear. And beyond that, even the lost power that did come from wind came from the fact that the turbines weren't winterized. So not only was wind the smallest culprit, it, but its failures were based on human error and were totally preventable. But the fact that Republicans like Abbott and Dan Crenshaw and Rick Perry and these Fox News hosts

all decided to blame renewables goes to show that these people will never take responsibility for their own failures and will politicize anything and everything to try and absolve themselves. Like, to its credit, Texas has been one of the top states in the nation to adopt wind power. Texas passed its first renewable energy target in 1999, three years before California. And that law was signed by then-Governor George W. Bush, a pretty prominent Republican. Bush even campaigned on Texas's leadership on wind energy while running for president in 2000. So Texas has a longstanding and proud relationship with renewables. That is a good thing.

And it comes in stark contrast to the states that still rely on fossil fuels that are setting themselves up for failure in the future by refusing to invest in renewables now. So to then turn around and blame wind power when 70% of Texas's energy sources come from thermal energy and failed at greater rates is absurd. Wind actually did better than expected. Through the weekend, wind generation exceeded the greater operator's daily forecast. But the Republican Party is so hell-bent on owning the libs and blaming Democrats for everything that even when renewables did its job and was likely responsible for countless more people having some degree of power, still they'll villainize it.

And now, whoever gets their news from Fox is going to turn around and think that the solution here is to step away from renewables and entrench their reliance their reliance. on these fossil fuels, when it was that very energy source that was responsible for the majority of these issues. It will make the people of Texas less safe, less safe, all because Republicans can't possibly allow the radical leftist Democrats to get any semblance of good optics, even if it means the people of their own state would have a better chance of survival. And as if the impacts of the weather weren't bad enough, Texans are getting bills from their electric companies that are as much as 50 times higher than normal. The New York Times did a profile of

of one Texan whose energy bill is almost $17,000. The prices for electricity companies in Texas are market-driven. And so in a situation like this one, where extreme weather causes energy usage to soar, wholesale power prices have been pushed up from $50 per megawatt hour to $9,000 per megawatt hour. And so yet again, going back to Republicans' desperation to avoid regulation to save money, they failed to take steps to protect their infrastructure, which led to that equipment failing, causing prices to surge, and because prices are tied to the market, consumers are going to be in the hole for thousands of dollars.

And so clearly, people should absolutely not have to pay these bills, and it's going to have to be the very Republican leaders who bred a system where they relinquished all responsibility who have to take the lead. Like, when you have a political party whose entire identity is predicated on making sure government doesn't work, then you can't be surprised when government doesn't work. Republicans are giving a clinic right now in why we need government

and the dangers that come from entrenching the power of party whose only aim is to ensure that it doesn't work. And who else exemplifies that small government pandering than Ted Cruz? Now, I feel like, politically speaking, the easiest thing to do if you're an elected official during a crisis is just to be there. Just show up and be present. See how you can help. Chris Christie did it during Hurricane Sandy, and he literally launched a presidential bid

from it. Giuliani did it after 9-11, and he also launched a presidential bid from it. I had a signed photo of Rudy Giuliani on my childhood bedroom wall in New Jersey from just after 9-11. Me. That's how much you can prove your leadership during a crisis. And yet somehow, miraculously, Ted Cruz, who already has presidential ambitions that dwarf any sentient being on this planet, not only managed to squander that opportunity, but may have actually ruined his chances at a presidential run. Because while the images out of Texas have been devastating, people are outright dying from hypothermia,

Supermarket shelves, no food, no water powers out. Amid all of this, Ted Cruz, populist Ted Cruz, the let's fight back against Washington elites, Ted Cruz, packed up his shit, slithered on over to the airport, and left to go to Cancun. And not just Cancun, the Ritz Carlton in Cancun, like, holy shit, just leaving is bad enough, but the Ritz Carlton, people's houses are literally crumbling to the crown. A point that I think is especially telling is that Ted Cruz and his family

were having a rough time. Their quality of life was suffering but they saw an opportunity on the other side of the border and so with a moment's notice they left because who wouldn't want their kids to have a better life if they could give that to them? You know what they call that a refugee? The same people who Ted Cruz has spent the better part of the last decade vilifying.

The same people who Cruz tried to keep out by signing on the Trump's border wall. You know what they should do for ask like Ted Cruz, implement a remain-in-America policy while his case goes through the proper channels. We could call it a complete and total shutdown while they figure out what the hell is going on. Come on. Now, the bigger question here is, will this matter? Will there be any political repercussions for Ted Cruz for doing this thing that any sane person recognizes should kill someone's political career? And I speak about this in the interview coming up with

Alex Michelson, but while of course I don't have the answer, I'm torn between thinking, on one hand, This is one of those moments where someone commits a violation so egregiously bad that he can't escape it. Like the dichotomy of those images of Texan suffering and Ted Cruz in the airport for Cancun are so damning. They so clearly show who this guy is. You know, not only an elitist selfish asshole, but a hypocrite for building his brand unexplicitly pretending he's not an elitist selfish asshole. So I can see a world where this is brought up on that debate stage in 2024 and in as an adjudic. ads in 2024 and in commercials in 2024. And yet with that said, I do want to caution a bit here because everything in the moment feels

like some inescapable story. And for whatever reason, maybe our short attention spans, maybe the polarization in politics today, it's usually not. Now, that's not to say that we can't do everything in our power to make sure that no one forgets this. And that's the part that we can control. And I have every intention of doing that. Like, if Donald Trump taught us anything, it is the power of repetition.

Now, he used it to try and manifest his lives. isn't reality. But as for us, we can and should use it to make sure that no one forgets exactly who Ted Cruz is. Next up is my interview with Alex Michelson. Okay, today we have my good friend and host of The Issue is on Fox LA, Alex Michelson. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, Brian. Great to be on with you. And if anybody hasn't seen the issue is, Our highest rated most watch episode ever is Brian debating Tommy Laren.

And so if you haven't seen it, check it out on YouTube. Trust me, if you like this podcast, you will enjoy watching that. You jumped on me because I was about to say, I was about to say that it was your show where I did that debate. So if you haven't seen that, I want to check it out, go to Alex's channel on YouTube to check those out. And that's E-L-E-X-Michelson. So shameless promotion aside, I do want to jump into the situation. in Texas. Ted Cruz breaks seemingly every rule of politics. The people of his state are out in the cold. Some of them are dying. And he heads off to the Ritz Carlton and Cancun. But Ted Cruz isn't up for

re-election until 2024. Does this have any impact on his political future? Well, it might. I mean, it is the sort of image that stays with you. So it depends on what the audience is that Ted Cruz is in front of. Is this going to dramatically hurt him with a Republican primary audience in Texas if he's running for Senate or if he's running for president again? Probably not. Is this the kind of thing, though, that a general election audience, if somehow Ted Cruz was able to win the Republican primary might remember, is it one of those ads and one of those images that you just can't escape for the average person in the middle? Yes, I think this is a that does break through. We have seen those happen ever so often where there are things that

are just so bad or so epitomize, a picture that epitomizes every potential negative about somebody that just sticks. You think back to like Michael DeCoccus with the tank back in 1988. You think back of images of John Kerry. They had an ad of him kite surfing going back and forth. You think back to Gavin Newsom, the governor of California. having a meal at the French laundry. The criticism of him, of course, is that he's too wealthy and out of touch and a hypocrite. And that, all those images lead to that.

And then you think of Ted Cruz. And what is the caricature of Ted Cruz? That he's out of touch, that he's a hypocrite, that he doesn't actually believe what he says, that he doesn't really care that much about governing, that it's all about sound bites for him, that it's all about an advertisement to be the next Rush Limbaugh, and that he doesn't think that government works anyways. And then he does something that proves all of that right. You know, I mean, I think it's hard to underestimate how disliked Ted Cruz is among his colleagues.

One of your podcast guests, Al Franken, said famously, I like Ted Cruz more than most senators, and I hate Ted Cruz. So he is not the most beloved guy. Remember, this is a guy who went into Congress and basically shut down the government so that he could have some good sound bites on Fox News that really annoyed a lot of the folks that have been in the Senate a long time. And a lot of his Republican colleagues were very irritated with the actions that he did to lead to January 6 and to exacerbate that problem.

So Ted Cruz has never been the most popular guy. in the room internally, never been the most popular guy in the room when it comes to the Washington Press Corps. But there has been a base of Republican primary supporters that like him and that follow what he has to say. Are they going to be moved by this? No. But I think this makes it hard for Ted Cruz if he ever really wanted to win a national election. And it might be hard for him to ever do that anyway. So to that point, I mean, when we are talking about a race in Texas, for example, are we beyond the point where just the worst behavior humanly possible can actually result in consequences? Like, are we just so retreated into our corner onto our

red team and blue team that even these politically suicidal events have no bearing? I mean, for a lot of folks, yes, I think we are in that point. I think one of the big questions, though, Brian, going forward, if you look at the demographics of Texas, Texas is becoming more blue. It's just a matter of when it's going to happen. I think there are a lot of folks on the left that were excited about the possibility. Maybe 2020 is going to be the year and Biden and Beto's help and everything we're going to get over the top. And it wasn't the year for that. And the demographics still are clear that Texas is a Republican state. But within our lifetime, within perhaps the next decade, certainly the next 15, 20 years, Texas is trending blue.

And when Texas becomes blue, if in fact that happens, it is impossible to imagine a way that a Republican can win the presidency because there's no map when you add Texas to the blue column and take it away from the red column. And so then you could see a dramatic, complete realigning of politics all over the country changing and the way the whole presidential campaign is done and a change in Texas politics in terms of. what is okay. I mean, it's clear that Democrats are right there. Ted Cruz barely won re-election against Beto. So you change that demographics in Texas just a little bit over the next 10 years. All of a sudden, Ted Cruz is not winning that race anymore. And so you're seeing that change, just change you're seeing in Texas is happening all over the country. That's why Democrats are winning a place like Georgia or Arizona. And so if they were able to pull that off this cycle, a cycle, a cycle two from now, they're able to pull off Texas,

it's, you know, game over for the GOP. Right. And I think what makes it even more difficult for them is that the ideology that they've retreated into is this Trump, Marjorie Taylor Green, Matt Gates, Jim Jordan ideology, where it's more about, you know, owning the libs than actually doing any good work, any actual governing. And it does appeal to this crazy wing of the party, the lunacy of the right. And so I think that's going to make it even more difficult when they finally find themselves in a situation where they're not going to be able to win that electoral map if Texas goes blue. And they have to suddenly appeal to people more in the middle in this country. And all of a sudden, the people

that have become the spokespeople for the right are the crazies. Right. And if you think about the godfather of the modern Republican Party, of course, is Ronald Reagan, who famously said that government is not the solution of the problem, government is the problem. So if that's the foundational way you look at the world, that government is the problem, then you don't think that government is in the business of solving problems. You know, there are a lot of people, and that, by the way, not every Republican believes that, but there are, I think it is fair to say there are more Democrats that get into public service with the idea of serving the public. Not all of them do. Not all the Republicans do. And there are Republicans that get into it for the right reasons. But if your fundamental

belief is that government doesn't work, we want to shrink this. We don't want to have power. We want to maximize power for corporations. We believe that business does things better than government does. So we want to loosen regulations on business. We want to give business more power. We want to take away government. We want to starve these agencies. We want to get less taxes. If that's the way you think, then it's not a huge surprise that government stops working when you don't fund it. And that is what's happening. You're creating your own reality here. And so that is a fundamental. That's sort of what we see here. That's why Ted Cruz and Ben Shapiro and others, their natural reaction to Ted Cruz leaving in the middle of a snowstorm is, well,

what is he supposed to do? He's a senator. That's a state issue. And because that's the way that they see the world. And it's a fundamental different belief in what the job itself is. And that's part of the problem. It's one thing, and that's part of the problem, a bigger problem for where we are as a country. It's one thing to think, okay, well, I want the tax rate to be 39 percent. I want the tax rate to be 35 percent. Let's make it at 37 percent. It's another thing when the person says, there should be no taxes. It's just like, you're not operating on the same planet. And And that's part of the information chasm that we see between the two parties. Because clearly, if only people on the right listened more to the Brian Tyler Cohen podcast,

they would have a better understanding on where most liberals are thinking. That's it. That's it. Well, I appreciate that. Going back to you, you speak to a lot of politicians on both sides of the aisle. Based on your interviews, what seems to be more important to the people that you speak with? Is it getting something done or is it, you know, the fight and owning the other side on Twitter and scoring a viral clip? Or is there a change by party, depending on who you've spoken to? I mean, I think it depends on who the person is. I will say that a lot of the folks that have been there longer are more interested in getting things done because they come from a different place.

I mean, you think about the U.S. Senate when Joe Biden got there back in. the 70s. It was an entirely different world. Part of that was because they spent a lot more time in Washington. They spent a lot more time together. There wasn't as much primary power. There wasn't as much money in politics. And so there was more incentive to getting things done in the middle. And so that's the way they think. That's why you look at a lot of people on the right and the left. They don't want to get rid of the filibuster because they are a big believer in minority rights and they've been around long enough. There is a newer generation that comes of age with social media, that comes of age with a different incentive structure that is looking more to score points.

But I also think that crisis reveals people. A crisis is an opportunity to lead in a powerful way. It's why you're seeing somebody like Anthony Fauci accedes so much. It's why you've seen certain people step up. And in crisis moments, there's a great opportunity. And it also has revealed, I think, who isn't necessarily in it for the right reasons or isn't looking to lead as well. Yeah. And I mean, you see that. I know I know that you can't say it, but I will. And that's that, you know, you have in Texas itself, you have the losing Senate candidate in Beto O'Rourke, who's now called, I believe, I mean, we're looking at upwards of a quarter of a million wellness checks for seniors. And even AOC, you know, AOC has gone there and she just announced

as of this recording that she's raised $4 million for relief for Texans. And again, compare that with what we've seen from the winning Senate candidate. Yeah. And that's another thing that we have seen. You know, the governor of California, Gavin Newsom, on Saturday morning, putting out a fundraising appeal to his donors asking for money for Texas. That is one thing that Ted Cruz could do, and that these politicians who spend years constantly asking the wealthiest people in this country for money for themselves. In the situation where how do we get a bunch of money really quickly, how do we get the most powerful, richest people that have access to supplies really quickly, oh, I know,

I have an email list of all of them. of all of their contact info. So that is one of the things that people can do is to tap into their professional networks of big donors, Beto doing it also using the grassroots online approach, which was part of what powered his campaign too, but there also are those big dollar donors. And there is an opportunity to engage with those people. And that's one of the things that a senator, especially a senator with so many donors like Ted Cruz, would have the power to do in a crisis situation. But yeah, you bring up crisis. situations. I mean, President Trump, you know, I think if he would have taken a different approach to

coronavirus early on, if he would have said, yeah, we should wear a mask. I don't know if it looks the best on me, but it's important for science. Yeah, you know what? We've gotten into a lot of fights before, but this issue is bigger than any of us. We're going to come together on this. I'm going to highlight other people. I'm going to take control. We're going to conquer this as a country. He would have done a lot of those steps early on. There's no doubt in my mind. I'm he would have won re-election because it would have elevated him to a higher level. Instead, he did the opposite on everything. He leaned into a lot of divisiveness and he missed his opportunity. And then the crisis of the coronavirus ended up consuming him, overtaking him, and I think was a

large reason why he lost. Yeah. I mean, it was this fatal short termism where he thought it would be more important to pretend that the virus didn't exist because he didn't want to impact any of his numbers or impact the stock market or anything like that. And so all that did was allow the virus to explode unabated through this country. But the weird part then is to see that these Republicans, even after seeing the impacts that it had on Trump's campaign, continue to dig in their heels, even after it ended his presidency. You know, you still have these Republicans who refuse to wear masks. I believe it was the leading Republican candidate for Virginia's gubernatorial race is still showing up on the state Senate floor, if I'm not mistaken,

and she has to be surrounded in a plexiglass container, basically, because she refuses to wear a mask. Well, and some of this gets to one of your earlier questions, which is how do you view the world? How do you view governing? Donald Trump spent no time in government. He did not view things in terms of the long view. He spent his time in media with all about TV cycles and winning ratings

and the cable news 24 hours machine and changing the lead and changing the story. So in that scenario, attention spans are short. Most people aren't remembering what you did this morning, much less yesterday, much less two weeks ago. And so if you are just focused on winning the next news cycle, you know, that is a way that he had survived and succeeded. Other folks, including Barack Obama, who hated the news and didn't watch it, almost to his detriment.

say now he made mistakes because he wasn't engaged in the way that most people were consuming information. But he didn't view the world that way. He spent most of his time reading history books. So it was thinking in terms of long term, what's the long play? How do we win this over years? It's a difference in philosophy. And it's interesting now to see Joe Biden in the presidency, somebody who has so many decades of experience, has seen the presidency more up close than anybody who has ever been in that job and some of the lessons that he's learned. You see now on the coronavirus relief that Joe Biden is saying, we are going to do this on our own because a year or whenever Barack Obama was in there, I shouldn't say, in 2009, they tried

so hard to get Republican support for stimulus. They tried so hard to get Republican support for health care and ended up not getting there. felt like it was, you know, Charlie Brown and the football, like they, like they just kept going for it. And I think the lesson that Biden learned because he's been through it before, more than anybody who's ever been there is Republicans are not negotiating in good faith. They're not going to be there anyway. So if we have the votes, go for it. That's something that Mitch McConnell did, by the way. That's how he got Amy Coney Barrett on the court. It's like, if we got the votes, go for it. And I think Democrats for so many years were afraid to go through.

that process. And now you're seeing a very different legislative strategy because Joe Biden has been burned so many times before. Yeah. And it's ironic because Joe Biden comes from that same mold as the Joe Mansions and the other moderate Democrats out there. And yet he does seem to finally have understood that, you know. And yet, you know, especially with this filibuster fight, we still have people that are holding on to the institutions of the Senate just for the sake of holding on to the institutions of the Senate without any regard for what that actually represents. Yeah. I mean, there's a real debate there, though. I mean, there is the danger if you get rid of the filibuster that then when Mitch McConnell goes from being minority leader Mitch McConnell to

majority leader Mitch McConnell again, and he's got 50 votes or 51 votes, whatever he needs, then you could have no way of stopping all of this legislation. So that is why a lot of people that have been there a long time, if you really talk to them, that have been in the majority and the minority, that know that it goes back and forth, are wary of creating a situation when you're in the minority, you're powerless. Because that's basically what the situation is right now in the House of Representatives. If you're in the House and you're not in the majority, you've basically got nothing. It's not a very glamorous job being in the House with no power. In the Senate, that everybody has something in part because of some of the rules. And if you get rid of that

entirely, I mean, Mitch McConnell may be able to pass an agenda and Democrats just have to stand and watch. That's what he did with judges, right? Because they moved that vote from 60 to 50. You saw what happened. It was like a stampede, like out of the Lion King. Like they just kept coming and coming and coming and coming. It was like, you know, killing people in it. And that could happen on the other side. And that's where I think folks like Joe Biden, who have done this a minute, are concerned about that future long game thing. Although in the moment, it feels good, feels good in the moment to try to pass some of that stuff. You know, long term, it might not be the smart way to go. Well, if the filibuster isn't nuked, then we won't be able to accomplish

some of these democratic reforms that would ensure Democrats even have representation in the future. So I'm talking like, you know, statehood for D.C. and a Voting Rights Act and without those things, which won't pass unless the filibuster is nuked, then it'll be unlikely we'll be able to keep majorities anyway because of the efforts by Republicans to just completely create this anti-democratic society through voter suppression. And, you know, we won't even have the opportunity to be in the majority anyway because of because of how the map is going to be so redrawn. Well, there needs to be several more Democrats elected before you even have the votes in place to get rid of the filibuster because Joe Manchin is on record saying he doesn't support it. Kristen Sinema from Arizona on record saying she doesn't support it. Joe Biden says he doesn't support it, which means other people might follow him along there. So the Democrats don't have the votes now to do it. So it's almost a moot point unless you saw the Democrats have some pat.

I mean, that's the real challenge in trying to legislate right now with a 50 vote majority. You look at this week, Joe Manchin announcing, I'm not going to pass Nira Tandon. And then because of that, one guy, there's no pad because Nira Tandon has put worse insults on Twitter than you even do. Which is an accomplishment. Yeah, I mean, calling Mitch McConnell Voldemort is not the way to get his support, even though many people listening. to this probably would use other words than that. I was going to say, if you don't want to be called Voldemort, one good step might be to not be Voldemort.

Yeah, this week when I did an obituary for Rush Limbaugh on the news, I said, I was trying to be, you know, kind because it was the day that he died. I said, President Trump used the word legend to describe him, and liberals are using several other words. Yeah, that's one way to say. Just left it care. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, Alex, thanks so much for taking time. It's always great speaking to you. And again, let my audience know where they can watch you. Okay. So the issue is is a show airing on every market in California. So if you want to watch it on TV, go to the issue is show.com. You can also catch it at my YouTube page, YouTube.com slash Alex Michelson. We're also on Tobey, which is.

is a new streaming site for free where you can watch all the shows on demand. And it's in podcast form. Just search for the issue is. And I hope you'll connect with me in social media. My name is E-E-L-E-X-M-I-C-H-A-E-L-S-O-N. Congratulations, Brian, on the show. I just will say, as a point of personal privilege as a friend, I remember going to lunch with Brian, and he said, I want to launch a podcast.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to ever get any guests. I don't know how this is going to go. but what do you think? And I was like, you're going to be the best. Everybody's going to want to talk with you. This is so exciting. I'm excited to be on the ground floor of this. I'm so proud of what you have accomplished. You have had all the biggest guests possible on your show. Somehow now you're stuck with me this week. But your achievement with this is awesome. You've got a great and loyal audience. And as a spokesperson on behalf of all of them, Brian, thank you for the good work that you do. Keep it up. Thanks again to Alex. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie,

interviews captured and edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nicholas Nicotera, and recorded in Los Angeles, California. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app. Feel free to leave a five-star rating and a review, and check out Brian Tyler Cohen.com for links to all of my other channels. Thank you.