No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Major update on Supreme Court EXPANSION

Episode Date: June 28, 2026

Gavin Newsom signals openness to Supreme Court expansion.Please pre-order my new book, THE DAY AFTER, and grab tour tickets here: https://www.harpercollins.com/pages/thedayafter  Full interview with Gavin Newsom: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/and-this-is-how-democrats-lead-us-to-a-post-trump/id1798358255?i=1000774188185Written by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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in a post-Trump world. We had a great conversation about everything from climate to the economy, to Medicare for all, to holding Trump and company accountable for their criminality. But one issue on which there's been some disagreement between me and Gavin Newsom in the past is this idea of Supreme Court expansion. And that's also a major focus of my new book. And that's where things got interesting. So here's that section of our conversation. So you open up, you talk about blank checks and balance, as well said. And then this notion of the untouchable. And it has been the untouchables. It's according.

You, I've had this conversation. I'm kind of mixed on this. I'm open argument. I really am on this. Not an ideologue, but I have instinctual concerns about reforming the court in terms of its size. Good people argue differently. You do as well. But we agree on term limits.

We agree on ethic and code of conduct reforms. You lay them out in here. You lay out the why from Alito to the Kavanaugh, the shadow docket we can get to. Obviously, what's going on with, you know, who's the other one? Alito and the, you know, the insurrectionist, bag. I mean, Jesus, what the hell is going on with the Supreme Court? So let's talk about this. So my argument here is that we need court expansion.

It makes sense not just from a moral perspective, which I'll get to in a moment, but also there is historical precedent for it. The number of federal court circuits have always been commensurate with the number of Supreme Court seats. We've had six in the past, I think, in 1837. that's raised to nine. But now we have 13 federal court circuits and we still have nine Supreme Court justices. But from...

So that's the historical argument for this. It would make sense. It's also not in the Constitution that we should have nine. It's also, you know, not so sacrosanct that Republicans haven't changed that number in modern times.

Again, they kept the court at eight seats because they wanted to keep Merrick Garland off the court. That was almost a year. So we have very recent precedent for Republicans changing the composition of the... court to suit them politically. Now, imagine we're fortunate enough to have a Democratic president, Democratic House, Democratic Senate. We get some legislation passed, which already onto itself is a

Herculean task. Now we have this rogue branch of government, which is, you know, not, look, you look at Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas. These are not, these are not, you know, these, you know, apolitical, a neutral, arbiters of the law. This is Jim Jordan in a suit, right? In a robe, I should say. Jim Jordan, yeah, with a jacket on. Yeah, wearing something. I assume it, I mean, that would be a hell of a thing to see. So, you know, with the composition of the court as it stands right now, they have a permanent veto over any and all legislation that Democrats could put forward. And so we do all of this work and yet opt to leave in place just by virtue of our respect for norms and precedent, a six three conservative court that can and absolutely will

strike down anything that doesn't comport with their political ideology. I mean, this is a court that has just struck down the voting, the entirety of the Voting Rights Act. This is a court that will, in deference to their party, create provisions of the constitution out of whole cloth, like this idea that the president can act with impunity as it relates to criminal prosecution that will ignore the plain text of the Constitution, like Section 3 of the 14th Amendment that prevents someone from running for federal office again if they've engaged in or given aid or comfort to those who've engaged in insurrection. Donald Trump did that. That's not just me saying it. It is the Colorado Supreme Court, for example. And so they make it up as they go.

And so while we're making this whole argument about not just sitting on our laurels and and hoping that, you know, just by virtue of the, the arc of the moral universe bending toward justice, you know, through osmosis or whatever it is, that it's just going to happen. Good, like, the, the arc of the moral universe doesn't just bend toward justice. You have to push it. And so I think this is a perfect example of where you push it, leaving intact this court just out of, out of deference to stasis or the status quo. gives them a permission structure to strike down anything that you've, that all of these people

have worked to get by showing up and voting Democrats into office and, and, you know, you campaign on climate change and health care and a just economy and, and everything that gets people out of bed, everything that makes people believe in politics, but you know that you're just leaving intact voluntarily a veto for the other side with people who you know are not neutral arbiters of the law, people like Samuel Lido and Clarence Thomas. And so if we're, if we're adhering to this vision of, of recognizing that we have one shot here to really deliver for people. Like, Republicans fumbled the ball. They, they, 2024 was an incredible reversal of not just, not just political alignments, but, but culture. I mean, when I, like, when I was in college,

you, regardless of geological. regardless of socioeconomic status, you were for Obama if you were a young person. Like, it would be impossible. It would be social suicide if you're like, oh, no, I'm a John McCain guy. I'm a George W. Bush guy. Yeah, yeah.

And you were not in the cool club. No. And to watch Democrats have fumbled it to the point where it actually became more, like, became cooler, became more culturally beneficial to be a Republican, is a, is a coup for them. And for them to fumble the ball like they're doing right now,

we have an opportunity that we shouldn't, frankly, have. If they weren't so fucking incompetent, they wouldn't have given us this opportunity. But we have this moment right here. It's a brief moment that we can take advantage of. And if we use that moment by thinking that we can garner all this support and get like our one last shot, only to put it in the hands of a Supreme Court that we know

is going to strike anything and everything down, then we are not actually committed to the outcomes that we claim to be committed to. So you're talking about expanding to 13, and it's interesting. I mean, it is a great historical. And people forget it. The last time it was done, again,

was under Lincoln. There's no constitutional constraints on this. I would argue last time it was done, it was done under Mitch McConnell. I love the Merrick Garland point. That's an interesting and powerful point. The Supreme Court went down from nine to eight for a year. They changed the number of justice.

He did not screw around. And so nor can we. Now let's get to the other two component parts. Code of conduct, which is all the stuff with Thomas is off the charge. Before we go there, did I, did I, I need to know if I convinced you before we get to the code of conduct. I'm going to conclude with,

because I'm going to, I'm going to then fill in an additional. We're going to create, we're adding more ingredients. Okay. The overall reform here. So you're calling for code of conduct. That just seems to be a no damn brainer.

Right. Yeah. Code of ethics. Absolutely. More transparency, et cetera. That this notion of term limits. eight years you call for? Yeah.

Others have said 18. Why eight? I think, you know, look, I'm open to, I'm open. Oh, interesting. Now you're open argument. You know, I think we can both, I think we can both, it's a given take here. I think, you know, just with the way that these presidential administrations work, I think it's, it takes a lot of the, you know, the eventfulness of super, you know, the, the eventfulness of Supreme Court retirements out of the equation if they're done with more frequency. And you expect one or two retirements in the next days, weeks, even before the publication

your book? You know, I am holding my breath. Every day that we don't have the announcement of one of these Supreme Court justices stepping down, it's not even something that I often want to talk about because I don't even want to put it in the zeitgeist. We can keep it in for the pod. But like, you know, look, I am, I am holding my breath. We have, God willing, Democrats take control of the Senate in 2026. And then it's not something that we have to worry about. Unless, of course, there is some. They move ASAP and they go.

Unless, unless, correct. And frankly, they could. And I would be, I would be surprised if they didn't. But, but we'll see how committed, you know, how committed they are to trying to do that. Again, like they have a majority. And so, and so I'm hoping and praying that it doesn't happen. But that's, again, another, that should be another impetus to take serious reforms because otherwise we're looking at a Supreme Court that is not just 6-3, but 6-3 where we have a bunch of 40-year-old justices. So here's my prediction. You will be on this book tour and this will be the most focused part of your conversation with folks this chapter. You know, I've been asked what is the first thing that the left needs to do when it takes power again.

And I have said the first thing that needs to happen is court reform and court expansion. Yeah, look, you're getting me closer to your point of view. And you challenged me. I know we were talking, I was on your pod down in L.A. a few months ago. And this notion of 13 and then just looking at the district courts is that framework sort of anchor the old school, the ember of a traditional, you know. I mean, look, that's a... For a guy who recognized the urgency of the moment with Prop 50. Yeah.

And in fact, the only Democratic state to have successfully redrawn its maps ahead of 2026, that that is what I think is the natural, the natural evolution. God bless you. I'm with you. I'm done winning arguments. We got to win. Yeah. And we got to consolidate power. And again, this book is about power.

The subheadline, again, how to weigh. I mean, this is it. Weield power. Without it, it's all bullshit. Yeah. I mean, it's academic bullshit. No lie is brought to you by Factor. So we've all been in this situation.

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So the new book, the day after, is literally about pushing Democrats to fight harder on a range of topics. In a conversation about the book seeking to get Democrats to fight harder, I got to make the case to a very prominent Democrat, who may even be the Democratic nominee for president one day, about Supreme Court expansion to the point that Newsom says, quote, I'm with you, I'm done winning arguments, we got to win. So if that's not a testament to the potency of the book, I don't know what is. I mean, that is the lesson of the book playing out in real time. In an interview about a book seeking to get Democrats to fight, it sounds like I got

buy-in from one very prominent Democrat to fight. In other words, the blueprint works. So look, I'm going to ask here that if you think that this was an effective strategy, that you please grab a copy of this book, which is available right now for pre-order. Here's my case to you. The more books that I can sell, the more attention it gets, obviously. The more attention it gets, the more I'll be able to make the case to more Democrats about the importance of wielding power.

You already saw in just one interview what it looks like when I can make the case to one politician, the governor of California. I want to be able to do that with everyone. Because frankly, we don't have the luxury of having these debates once we're back in power. Because when that moment arrives and it will arrive, we need to move fast. We should spend this moment making the case so that when we win the election, we use that time to actually wield power, to pass legislate. to fix our broken health care system, to usher in a just economy, to take strong action on climate,

to pass voting rights legislation and shore up our democracy, to hold criminals to account for their corruption, and yes, to expand the court. So I'm going to put a link to pre-order the day after in the show notes of this episode, or you can go to bryantellercoen.com slash book. There you can grab the hardcover or the audio version. And importantly, at the same link is tickets to my book tour. So if you live in or around New York, D.C. or L.A., please come see me mid-July in person. I'll be in D.C., July 14th, New York, July 15th, and L.A., July 18th.

Those tickets are selling fast, so please grab yours while they're still available. I'm going to wrap up here with another segment for my interview with Gavin Newsom from his podcast, which is called This is Gavin Newsom. I highly recommend you listen to it in full and subscribe so that you can hear more from him. That link is going to be in the show notes of this episode. climate change is something. It's almost foreboden. People are not talking about it.

They're not writing about it. You wrote about it, and I appreciate you writing about it. Because, huck, there's no Democratic thermometer. There's no Republican thermometer. They were getting mugged by reality every goddamn day. It's an insurance crisis. It's a housing crisis. Directly connected.

It's a financial crisis because it's becoming uninsurable to build homes, let alone insure your home. Correct. If I get kicked off my insurance state farm in California, I won't be able to get reinsured. Yes. By state farm. If you are not already benefiting from insurance that was grandfathered in, you're not getting it.

And you think it's bad here. Go to Florida. Go to the Gulf states. Go to Louisiana. Even go up to Montana. I was up in Montana. I didn't realize what a crisis was even up there. Look, I got involved in politics because of climate change.

That's my number one issue, which is, which is, you know, I guess uncommon today. And I understand. Like, I'm fortunate enough to be in a position where health care is not my. number one issue because I'm contending with some, you know, because I'm, I'm immunocompromised and and need access to health care that I can't get. I recognize how fortunate I am so that climate change can be my number one issue. But that is what drew me to politics. And the notion, I mean, talk about tinkering around the edges. Like, we're having thousand years storms six times a year at this point. And so what are we doing? You know, like the thing that I think is

so ironic is a lot of these Republicans, especially these like Christian national, Talk about the preservation of like of of their heritage and and the white race. So you want to talk about preservation? Like we we like the planet's on fire right now. That is that is the issue that you should that you should be. Traditions, lifestyles, places, run off the map. Memories. Yeah. Greenville, California and you know, Grizzly Flats, Paradise, California. Yeah. I mean, places, lifestyles, traditions. Thank you for using. that language because it's exactly right. It's about our tradition. It's about our heritage. It's about our history. And then if you have a creator bone in you and if you believe in the spirit

and you believe in something bigger than yourselves, I mean, talk about what we've been endowed that connects us to 10,000 generations. Yeah. I also think like, you know, for obviously a major issue that has that had a huge impact in 2024 is immigration, you think that that issue is not going to be exacerbated by climate change. You think it's bad in 2024?

wait and see what it looks like in 2028, wait and see what it looks like in 2032. So, I mean, we are like, you know, I know that I'm advocating against tinkering around the edges. There is no issue where tinkering out around the edges has more consequences than when you're dealing with climate change, or I should say not dealing with climate change. And then it is this blind deference to, you know, I would watch like, don't look up. And it's the perfect allegory to what we're dealing with. saw it again. I mean, just monetizing our demise is is what we're doing. I mean, like, by heaping more tax subsidies and entrenching our reliance on fossil fuels at a time where, at a time where we need to,

we need to have transition to renewable energy yesterday. We need to have transition to renewable energy a decade ago. Abundant, less costly, doesn't have to go through the straight of her moose. Yeah. The sun does not raise in price. Yeah. We can capture the wind. We can store the sun. And batteries are the game changer, large scale batteries. I mean, like, you want to talk about a generation of leaders.

We, somewhere out there, we have the next state of Democratic leaders. Because I know it's not going to be Republicans who are willing to do this. But we have a slate of Democratic leaders who are going to save the world. And I don't even mean that hyperbolicly. Like, right now, we're trending in the wrong direction. and someone's going to step in and take a big swing and do what needs to be done and not worry about what it looks like to focus group this stuff before it happens. I love that, man.

Yeah. Thank you. And that's the point. I mean, I guess I'm reiterating. I was sort of triggered. I've been triggered by the lack of consciousness and focus, at least our conversation and focus in my party on this fundamental issue. And meanwhile, this guy, this son of a bitch, Trump is now literally subsidized with

your money, my money, you're collectively our money. These companies that had deals on wind programs that now are getting paid to back out of those contracts and double down on stupid. Yeah. On dirtier, cleaner, less efficient and effective technology that has literally geopolitically put us in this quagmire in Iran. Yeah. I mean, the idea that we'd ever do business with those companies ever again is beyond me as well. But anyway, forgive me, the issues as well of geopolitical security in the context of China kicking our ass. dominating the electric vehicle place,

dominating the supply chains. It's statecraft. They're flooding this all around the globe. All of the solar companies, top solar companies are Chinese, all of the renewable energy companies. And Biden was making progress on this. He was moving the needle on this.

And this guy is, and Democrats are complicit now because we're not screaming and yelling about this. We're not writing about it, but you are in the day after. No Lie is brought to you by Helix. So not too many people know this, but for about 10 years, I was a certified personal trainer. I dedicated that time to making sure that my clients were healthy.

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Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating in a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to bryantilercowen.com to learn more.