No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - One of the reddest Senate seats is suddenly in play in 2022

Episode Date: January 2, 2022

Biden is presiding over a record economy but not getting credit for it; Brian discusses how we can fix that as we head into midterms. Brian interviews Missouri Senate candidate Lucas Kunce about why he thinks that red state is in play in 2022 and how he can win. And Twitter phenom Aaron Rupar joins to discuss how to balance covering the most attention-seeking members of the GOP with not accidentally elevating them, and how to message most effectively for midterms. Support Lucas Kunce: https://lucaskunce.com/Subscribe to Aaron Rupar: https://aaronrupar.substack.com/Shop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we're going to talk about our record economy and why Biden's not getting credit for it and how we can fix it as we head into midterms. I interview Missouri Senate candidate Lucas Coontz about why he thinks that that red states in play in 2022 and how he can win. And I'm joined by Twitter phenom Aaron Rupar about how to balance covering the most attention-seeking members of the GOP with not accidentally elevating them and had a message most effectively for midterms. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen and you're listening to No Lie. So first of all, happy 2022. I would say that I'm excited for this year if for nothing else but the fact that it can't be as bad as 2020 or 2021.

But if I've learned anything, it is to stop thinking that each subsequent year can't be worse than the last. So instead, I'll just say that I hope this year is fine. I just wanted to be fine, decent. I'd be more than happy with that. So as we head into what is now a midterm year, we obviously have two major challenges facing us. The first is legislative and convincing Manchin and cinema to support a carve-out on the filibuster for voting rights and also in general passing some iteration of billback better. And the other is messaging.

And because we have less control over what Joe Manchin does or doesn't do, I'm going to focus on what we do have more control over. And that's how Democrats are selling their accomplishments and should plan to sell them ahead of this year's election. And those accomplishments should be easy to sell. Like Democrats got a $1.9 trillion COVID relief package passed. 72% of Americans are vaccinated, a one trillion dollar infrastructure bill, 40 Biden-nominated judges confirmed the most since Reagan, a record high stock market, 4.2% unemployment, jobless claims are at the lowest point since 1969, child poverty's been cut in half, over 6 million jobs

created in less than a year, and GDP growth forecast it hit 7%. And yet, despite all of that, the fact remains that Biden's approval ratings in the low 40s, and he's largely failing to get credit for any of this. And look, there's obviously an inherent difference between this White House and the last administration where Trump could tie his shoes in the morning and he would have six interviews lined up back to back, congratulating him on being a very smart boy who could tie his shoes. And so I think that the point as far as this White House is concerned is to purposefully draw that distinction where we don't need to stroke our own egos all day long. We don't need to beat our chest and tell everyone how great we are because we're just going to legislate and let that governing speak for us. And I get how in theory that sounds right because it's everything that Trump's White House isn't. But in practice, it just doesn't work.

It doesn't work because people just don't pay attention to the day-to-day intricacies of what's going on. They don't know the processes. And frankly, they don't know what the slogans actually mean. Like, I get how Build Back Better sounds nice. But if it was between Build Back Better and lower drug prices or permanent child tax credit or universal pre-K or affordable child care, guess what? people are going to opt for the one that actually tells you what the thing is. What Republicans have learned is that simpler is better, and then they repeat that simple message over and over and over until it is seared into everyone's memory.

Build the wall is a perfect example. We need to do that, but for our platform, that is actually popular. And that's not to say that we have to be like Donald Trump, but the fact is that Biden's presiding over a historic economy and yet polling in the 40s and getting no credit for it. So if Republicans can successfully message a woefully unpopular agenda item like building a wall on the southern border, then there is no reason that Democrats aren't able to message the fact that there's 4.2% unemployment and a record stock market and over 6 million jobs added and a surging GDP.

Now, there are two reasons why this message isn't getting out. The media and the Democrats themselves. So first, the media. Now, the difference is that right-wing media, Fox News, OAN, Newsmax, they exist to promote Republicans, period. They do it openly and shamelessly. The other media, media that's been branded the liberal media, is so concerned with being viewed as neutral that it actually bends over backwards to prove that it's not liberal. And so Republicans wail about gas prices and then every media outlet on the quote unquote left wails about gas prices. Republicans well about inflation.

And so the liberal media covers nonstop stories about inflation. Now, this isn't new, right? Republicans, uh, they pretended Hillary Clinton committed the gravest national security sin in U.S. history by using a personal email address to conduct government business, it was plastered over every so-called liberal media outlet. And yet, when Ivanka Trump did the exact same thing, suddenly no one seemed to mind. When Republicans pretended that four Americans dying in Benghazi was the greatest international failure in American history, the liberal media helped them amplify that message. And now, a few years later, when we have a 9-11s worth of America, Americans dying every single day from COVID, primarily those who are unvaccinated, and there

is a political party that is brazenly fomenting anti-vax sentiment, suddenly the deaths are no big deal. Four Americans dying was front-page news when Republicans dictated it, but the biggest mass casualty events in U.S. history owed largely to Republicans who, to this day, opposed nearly every safety measure, and, you know, it is what it is. So the next time someone tries to tell you that the media is liberal, think long and hard about who's bidding that liberal media is actually doing. And so when people like me complain that the media isn't covering the successes of the Biden

administration, they're half right and half wrong, because on one hand, they are happy to allow Republicans to dictate what they do cover and to do so for bullshit political scandals that exist only to serve their partisan agenda. Like, if you don't think that the New York Times and CNN and these major media outlets with very, very smart people working there, can't suss out that Hillary's email was not a legitimate scandal, then you're kidding yourself. So let's not pretend that when they want to,

that they're not willing to promote one party's political agenda. But with that said, they are right in the sense that the onus is also on the actual Democrats to sell their agenda first. The media should, of course, cover it. But to have something to cover, we need Democrats to give them something to cover. And that means that just like we see Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley

and Devin Nunes and Matt Gates and Jim Jordan on TV and podcasts and radio shows every single day, even if they're outright lying, even if they're only there to build their own brands, Democrats need to match that. And right now, we're not, not even close. And granted, I get that the job of a legislator shouldn't have to be showing up on TV every single day, but it is. Like, we've tried it without messaging, and it's not working. So by default, the job of a legislator has to be showing up on TV every day, has to be showing up on radio shows and podcasts. We have superstars on the left. We should be hearing. We should be here.

from the Katie Porters and Stacey Abrams and Barack Obamas and Jamie Raskins and Raphael Warnock's and AOCs and Elizabeth Warrens. We need to be everywhere. We need to be driving the conversation, not reacting to it. Think about the last time Democrats controlled the narrative. That was in 2018 between Republicans trying to eliminate Obamacare and just Trump's mere existence, Democrats went on the offense. They controlled the narrative and they took 41 seats in the House. They won by 9.7 million votes, the biggest midterm margin for any party in history. That is what happens when we control the narrative. So at this point, we have a choice.

We can allow 2022 to be a continuation of 2021, where the entire year becomes a referendum on, you know, critical race theory, which isn't even taught in schools, and high gas prices, which are already down 15% from their peak, and inflation, which is not only transitory, but a global issue thanks to a global pandemic. or we can make a referendum on the policies that Democrats stand for, which are popular, like the fact that everyone has a free, life-saving vaccine available to them, like the fact that child poverty has been cut in half, that every parent's getting a $300 check, that your roads are getting fixed,

that you'll have broadband internet, that the stock markets at a record high, that unemployment is close to being at a record low, that we've just added the most jobs in the least amount of time in U.S. history. If we go on offense instead of surrendering it to the same tired narratives about migrant care and socialism and gas prices, then we'll have our best shot at winning. That's what I want to see in 2022. I'll do my part, but I hope that every elected Democrat does the same. Next up is my interview with Lucas Coons.

Today we have the Senate candidate from Missouri, Lucas Coons. Thanks so much for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me, Brian. I'm excited. So, Lucas, what's your background? How do you end up running for Senate in Missouri? Yeah, you know, I grew up down in Jeff City, Missouri, born and raised there, working class neighborhood. I don't know, like this magical, magical place.

Kids ran in and out of each other's houses, everybody taking care of each other. And, you know, we had some good things happen to us that made me really just want to serve that community. And so when we were paycheck to paycheck growing up, like I remember watching my mom, right, the checks at the grocery store and asking the local grocery not to cash them until the end of the month. And then my little sister was born. she had to have a heart surgery. You know, my parents, they got married. Like, my mom was 19. When I got married, had a bunch of kids.

And then when she was born, she had to have her heart surgery and a lot of people around our country, it's not possible for a family like that to handle the type of expenses that come with it. And so, you know, we went bankrupt. And I just, like, I know I said at the beginning that good things happen to me. I'm getting there. It's just the way that that community came together. for us. You know, I remember when my parents were up in St. Louis for months on end with my sister,

everybody took us into their houses and took care of us other three kids. When my mom had absolutely nothing left, they passed the plate down in church with her for her so she could go buy stuff at the store. You know, I remember like more lasagna and cassero rolling through our front door than we could eat at certain points. You know, that's the beauty of places like that. And I always wanted to serve that community. And so I thought the best way was through the Marine Corps. So, you know, I joined the Marine Corps. I went to Iraq once.

I went to Afghanistan twice. I led U.S. arms control negotiations out of the Pentagon with Russia. And you know what? During that time, I go back to my old neighborhood over and over again, visit my parents, visit people. And it just kills me that I thought I was serving everybody back home. And I watched our country spend $6.4 trillion, supposedly, you know, nation-builds. overseas in these other countries for nothing. And, you know, I go back in the first house I ever lived in is now an empty lot in that neighborhood. The one I joined the Marine Corps out of

is just falling apart. The two houses next to it are abandoned. The corner stores boarded up, the grocery stores that they let us flow to check out are gone. And it's just, I don't know, it just really burns me up that we're willing to spend so much money overseas. And like, we squabble over every nickel that we spend here at home in communities like the one that I signed up to serve, you know, are just getting absolutely. neglected and abandoned. And so for me, it's what I'm running because I want to fundamentally change who has power so that it's not these massive corporations that buy off our politicians to strip communities like the one I grew up in for parts. And so that's the theme of the campaign.

It's what I'm running on. And it's just, it's really truly what I want to do because I think it's got us in a really bad spot. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really inspiring story. Well, if you look at a state like Missouri, this is a state that I think when you tell a lot of people today that Claire McCaskill won with like 55% of the vote in 2012 would shock them because Missouri is, for all intents and purposes, a red state. And so in this era of extreme polarization, what have you seen in Missouri that gives you confidence that voters there are open to voting against a Republican? Look, everywhere I go, no matter who I'm talking to, a Democrat or a Republican, what everybody feels is that they just have no power.

No matter who they vote for, they have no power. And I mean, Missouri is a state where people will vote for both tickets. Like it comes across this red, but this state's got a crazy independence streak, right? Like when Donald Trump won by 17 points and this seat was up in 2016, Jason Candor, the Democratic candidate only lost by 2.8, right? Like that many people are willing to switch ballots. You mentioned Claire McCaskill. You know, when she lost in 2018 by about five points, our Democratic statewide candidate for Auditor won by the exact same amount. And, you know, Missourians have really just been trying to take back power anyway that they can. And I mean, you see that in ballot measures that we've passed. I mean, we increase the minimum wage, $5 above the federal level. Like, does that sound like a state that doesn't want to look out for the people and change U.S. power? You know, with respect right-to-work legislation, like 68 to 32, which is crazy, expanded Medicaid over the state legislature, passed medical marijuana.

Like, the state has a very populist streak. I am a populist. We're running a top-bottom campaign. not a left-right campaign. It really is about changing who has power. And frankly, it's perfect for the candidates who are on the other side, because we've got a slew of criminals and people who have been selling out and stripping our state for parts for the better half of a decade. And so, you know, our message is perfect for them. They are all corrupt or, you know, like I mentioned before, criminals, although I guess, you know, the governor pardoned one of them,

so he's not a criminal anymore, I suppose. Fun little workaround. Fun little work around. But, But yeah, that's what we've got going on here. And so it's just, you know, we're meeting people where they're at. We're hitting the biggest issue that we're facing right now, which is who has power and what it's been doing to our state. And frankly, Missouri's been gutted. And it's time that someone stood up for the state and the everyday people that we all grew up with.

Well, having a campaign that is focused on populism and not tribalism, how is that being received so far? How is your campaign going so far? I mean, I'm telling you, like, everywhere it's about people are upset about power and whether it's you know if i'm at a farm in palmyra missouri with a bunch of hog farmers you know what they talk about is how they have no control over the crops anymore they have to buy from one massive supplier who is now owned by germany by the way or they talk about how in just a just a generation they saw 90% of missouri hog farmers wiped out by a monopolist company called

smithfield and then then when smithfield felt like they'd take all of this power and all these assets that they just basically stolen through monopolistic behavior from all these people, they decided they'd want to cash out on that and sell themselves to China. Well, Missouri had a law on the books that said there's no foreign ownership of agricultural land allowed in Missouri. And so Smithfield went to the state legislature, bought off Democrats and Republicans to change that very law and sell themselves to China. And so now all these hog farmers who see, you know, their land and their profits and everything else taken. They see their towns destroyed because the supply chain is vertically integrated, and nothing's bought locally anymore.

Now they see all that profit going to a foreign company, and it's just infuriating for them. Or, you know, you go to Urban St. Louis in a black community where I met with a woman who runs a place called Southside Wellness Center. She's been running it for like 40 years. It's an old folks home there. And she talks to me about how, you know what, for so long, we would take the money that the state gave us for our Medicaid patients, and we would buy everything locally, we'd buy the food locally. We had a chef on deck. The chef would make local food, local cuisine that everybody liked.

People were happy. And then a big company came in that convinced the corrupt politicians and the people running the government that now everything needs to be bought from this monopolistic food provider. The food comes frozen out of like Florida. It's highly salted. People don't like it. The money leaves the community. And everybody's blood pressure is going up because they're getting too much sodium.

She's like, how's that right? Like we used to invest in our own community and now it's disappearing because we have no power and these massive corporations do. And so it's like, I can give you story after story after story like that around the state. And it really, it's a tragedy and it's sad and it's why nobody trusts any institution anymore. Well, to that point, you know, you have a state like Missouri that right now ranks 42nd in health care, 30th in education. Is there something that I'm missing as to why the people of your state aren't knocking down the representatives' doors demanding, you know, the specific elements of, build back better, for example, demanding universal pre-K and college grants and lower insulin prices

and health care costs capped a $2,000 a year for seniors, and on and on. Yeah, I can tell you exactly what. Like, it is a lack of trust in the institutions. And this is, again, when I talk about Democrats and Republicans feeling like they have no power, no matter who they vote for, that's how they feel. And so like, when they hear about these big bills, they, like, I can give you example what people think about. They think about, well, okay, well, what about all that money we spent on the bailout in 2008, 2009, 2010 that everybody said was going to help the Missouri economy. And then a couple years later, everybody was saying, oh, the economy's solved. The housing market's fixed. Well, look, like my dad was trying to sell

our old house in Jeff City during that time. It sat on the market for two years. He got $43,000 for a house that he owed like 70-something on. And so that story, and I don't, that's not like, I don't give you that as like a personal story, but that is a very good example of what everyone in Missouri feels. They're like, well, every time this money gets spent, it gets captured by people at the top. All these banks were foreclosing on us. When I was in the Marine Corps at the time, I was serving on a Marine Corps base, and I had Marine after Marine come into my office and say, you know, sir, I don't understand like we just bailed these companies out, these banks out, to try to help the housing market. Why, when I'm deployed, are they illegally foreclosing on me

in violation of the service member civil relief act, which they were all doing. And, you know, you know, we got them for it. They eventually paid a fine as a cost of doing business, but all these people still lost their houses. And so it's another example is Afghanistan, right? People just don't trust anymore. Like for 20 years, politicians from both sides told folks in the Midwest and who believe them, you know, send us your sons and daughters, spend this trillion, you know,

Afghanistan $2.3 trillion in Afghanistan building it up. We're building something real and lasting here. Trust us. We're doing something good with your money. And what did we see happen? It collapsed in less than two weeks, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that what we're at right now is when a lot of people see build back better, they just think that they don't see the benefits it can provide. They say, you know, we know who's funding these politicians. Who's going to actually get this money. It's just going to be captured again. And so that's why like our campaign is, you know, we're not taking any money from corporate PACs. I want to abolish corporate PACs altogether. I want to make. it so family members and members of Congress can't own stock so that we know that they're making decisions based on what's good for the American people rather than their stock portfolio. Like we need to do a bunch of trust rebuilding exercises right now. I also think we need to, don't get me wrong, like, I think we need to invest in America. Like I saw spend $6.4 trillion overseas and to see them squabble over every single nickel,

the same people that were willing to vote for that money over and over again, squabble over every nickel they're going to spend here at home, I think it's a tragedy. I think it's a catastrophe. feet, I think it's bad for America. One of our key things is a Marshall Plan for the Midwest, where we invest here in the Midwest again. But I think that the reason you don't see people banging down the doors on things like that is just because they think it's going to be captured. So I've spoken to a number of candidates lately, and I like to ask this question because I think we can get stuck in the Beltway feedback loop regarding what's working and what's not

working as far as messaging is concerned. So for you on the campaign trail, what's been the most effective message? What are people most receptive to? I mean, for me, it's just we want to truly fundamentally change who has power. And the way we do that is by breaking up massive corporations so that we have a free market economy again, making it so investing here locally in the Midwest, making sure that that money is not captured by the elites at the top, and really breaking the link between money and politics and politicians. And frankly, of both sides, who've been taking money from the wrong people, Wall Street, big tech, you know, pharmaceutical cartels, you name it, and never doing what they say they're going to do. I mean, like, how many people,

like I got to say it's got to be 535, maybe 534 members of Congress run every single cycle on lowering the price of prescription drugs. Right. And it's never happened. So, I mean, that's where we're at right now. It's really about power and trust. That's what we've got to rebuild. So taking safe blue seats out of the equation because I don't think we can run a campaign in Vermont the same way that we need to run one in Missouri. What's your advice to Democrats looking to break through in other states like yours? I mean, I think that we need to be truth tellers. I think that we need to reject the wrong type of money. We need to stand for something real. We need to be warriors for working people again. And, you know, the Wall Street checks,

the Wall Street friends, the big tech friends, like those are not friends for us. the Democratic Party went astray when we just, when, you know, our leadership decided to start taking that money, it took us away from our roots. And until until we break that perception that we're just going to do whatever it takes for our funders, like we are going to struggle to be the party of working people. And the other, the other party doesn't pretend to do that, right? So, like, they don't have the same problem there. Right, because they don't even have, they're not even trying to pretend that they don't. Right. But like, honestly, honestly, it's worse to look like you're pretending. Yeah, I completely see that. Now, I feel like with,

the stakes so high in the Senate right now. You know, we look at someone like Kirsten Cinema who nobody could have imagined would almost unilaterally be blocking filibuster reform and therefore voting rights and so much more of our agenda passing, and yet here we are. And so I do feel like it's important to do my due diligence here and ask, if you were elected to the Senate, where do you stand on the filibuster? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think we need to take the filibuster. I mean, it's standing in the way of making our country stronger. It's standing in the way of making sure everyone can vote. I mean, this is like civil rights issues of our era that it's holding up. So I think, you know, we have broad, popular agenda. We need to get rid of the filibuster to pass it. And like,

dare people to come back and try to get rid of it. Because you know what, when we pass things that are popular, they put money in people's pockets that help normal everyday people, not these massive corporations that are buying everyone off. I mean, people are going to see that. They're going to understand it and they're going to want more of it. They're not going to want the other side or anyone else to take it away. And so, like, right now, what I see the filibuster being used as is a tool by, you know, elites basically, and people with a lot of money to maintain the status quo, whether they're using a Democrat like Kirsten Cinema or a Republican, you know, it's not even really partisan. It's a great tool for the people with the most money to focus that money

on just a couple people to make sure that the normal everyday people we all want to serve don't get the things that they deserve. And so for me, we get rid of the filibuster to break the status quo and to break the power that these, you know, these elites and these very select individuals have. Right. Great. Lucas, what's your New Year's resolution? I'm going to try to sleep a little bit more. I know it's not, I know it's not political. I really, I know it's going to be a challenge, but I want to try to get through the winter well because I know that that next summer and fall are going to be even more madness. So I got to get the strength in the tank.

Well, to that point, what can we do to help? Well, I'd love it if everybody went to Lucascoons.com or followed me on Lucas Coontz, M.O. on Twitter, or, you know, Instagram, Facebook, whatever you like. I really just want to get the message out there, get the grassroots out there. We are, you know, update on the campaign. This is miraculous, but like last quarter, we outraised every single Republican candidate, which is super exciting. But yeah, we're trying to, we're trying to fund this grassroots campaign and stay true to our message, which we're going to do. And just a fun note for

everyone, like last quarter, we had the single highest percentage of grassroots donations of anybody in the country. That's $200 and under. More than like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, John Fetterman, you know, everybody you think. We're doing it right here in Missouri. We're doing it with a message of fundamentally changing who has power and anyone who would like to contribute, I'd love to have helped join the fight. Great. And I'll put that link to your website in the episode notes of this episode here. And we'll definitely have you back on as we continue to progress into the campaign season. So, Lucas, thank you so much for taking the time. Happy New Year and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks for having me, Brian. Happy New Year to you.

Today we've got someone whose video clips have become ubiquitous on Twitter. He's probably unilaterally responsible for bringing some of the most absurd events from the right-wing ecosystem into the public consciousness. He's the author of the Public Notice newsletter, Aaron Rupar. Thanks so much for coming on. Yeah, thanks, Brian. Pleasure to be on with you. So I want to talk about, you know, the biggest scandals of today.

So I guess where do you want to start between Kamala Harris refusing to use, earbuds and Fox News is Christmas tree burning down. Oh, boy. You know, it's been kind of a pleasant little break for me here over the holidays. I've been a little bit tuned out. So I think I'm familiar with both of those candles from previous weeks. But, you know, there's a chance if there was something on Fox that people were losing their minds over this week, that I may have missed it.

But, yeah, I mean, if you were to do a December in review on Fox, you know, if you got your information earnestly from there and we're watching it, yeah, those would be. be the two biggest political stories, you know, in your mind. So I can't blame you for highlighting those. Well, look, if anybody listening has Twitter, you've seen an Aaron Rupar tweet, how'd you fall into that role as probably the most prolific and followed video clip threader? Yeah, it was really kind of a total accident, honestly. I was working at Think Progress, RIP, which was the job that brought me out to D.C. I got hired there in early 2016. So actually, I started right when Trump was kind of consolidating control of the Republican primary that year when he was sort of

consolidating his victory. And in the fall of 2017, we had a training on a software called Snapstream, which I still use today, which records basically cable TV, including cable news, and allows you to post clips and things like that. And I happened to be sitting at home one night, when John Kelly, who at that time was the White House Chief of Staff, was on, I believe, with Laura Ingram. And if you remember, it was kind of an infamous interview because Kelly in this interview defended Confederate generals, basically saying that they were honorable men who fought for a cause that they thought was a good one. And, of course, at this time, this was a big story in the news because it was post-Charlottetville and all that stuff. But I happened to see this interview in real time.

And, you know, of course, we had just had this training on Snapstream. So I sort of had the thought of, boy, I should clip, you know, like a 40-second fragment of this interview and posted on Twitter and see what happens. And I did that and it ended up overnight doing like two or three thousand retweets. It was by far the most viral thing I had ever posted on Twitter, despite working at that point as a reporter for like, you know, six or seven years, including almost two years at that point covering national politics. So, you know, it just kind of opened my eyes literally overnight to the fact. that there was such an appetite for news clips and for highlights. And from there, pretty shortly thereafter, I started doing kind of live tweeting of the White House press briefings, of Trump's speeches, congressional hearings, all that sort of stuff. And, you know, it was kind of exponential

growth in terms of Twitter followers throughout all of the Trump years. And I'm still kind of at it today. So, you know, I really kind of stumbled into it. But, you know, that discovery that there was such an appetite for that stuff really kind of made my whole career. Yeah. And I mean, it's proven helpful for people like me who need these clips, who rely on these clips to know what's happening, especially as somebody who doesn't even have cable news. So I, you know, personally, thank you for what you've done. Now, what's the response from Republicans been like on your threads? I mean, you were literally retweeted by Trump. I'm sure that sent some special kind of audience your way. Yeah, well, I was retweeted by him at least three different times. And each time I think what happened was he or whoever was running his account at that moment was searching for like a specific clip and probably just entered search terms into Twitter. And, you know, mine were towards the top because I had videos that got a lot of views. And I ended up getting retweeted, I think, without him even really being aware that I was one of his most prominent critics on Twitter. So it was kind of a strange deal. But, you know, honestly, the Trump years in my mentions were, such an explosion of, you know, it's just a never-ending stream of people replying and retweeting and stuff that honestly when Trump retweeted me, it did not really, it wasn't anything out of the norm in terms of activity in my mentions or like people following me, things like that. It was more just

kind of a surreal thing to see my tweets appear on his timeline. But in general, I mean, the response for Republicans has kind of been what you would think. I don't think I have a ton of fans over on that side, but, you know, there are Republicans who have good relationships with and who on occasion I'll DM with or, you know, Trump critics who are conservative, that sort of thing. But, you know, certainly that the type of accountability journalism that I do is more focused on Republicans. That's kind of been my beat even going back to when I was working in Minnesota. You know, I devoted a lot of energy to covering the Republican Party here. And, you know, I think since they've kind of pushed our democracy to the precipice here and, you know, since we sort of

have this sense now that every election is an existential threat because authoritarianism has become so embedded in the DNA of the modern Republican Party. I mean, I don't feel uncomfortable about that, that, you know, I tend to focus a bit more on what Republicans are up to rather than what Democrats are up to. But, of course, doing this newsletter, public notice, you know, I do cover Biden as well. And so, you know, I try to be fair in terms of giving credit where it's due and criticizing where criticism is warranted. But, you know, I would say that my audience, by and large, are liberals, progressives, who want to understand what's going on on the right and kind of view me as someone who can filter that and explain it for them. And so I'm sure I have some

Republican readers out there, but, you know, when I do hear from them, it's typically, you know, people trying to drag me or criticize me in some way, shape, or form. Right. And just, you know, digging into that, that whole Twitter phenomenon and working online, you know, has that been discouraging? Has that had any impact on you at all? Like, I personally have gotten caught up in the right-wing media ecosystem from time to time. And no matter how thick your skin is, you know, getting piled on by thousands of people does still have an impact. Yeah, it definitely does. You know, and there are a lot of people on the right who seem to kind of have it out for me, or if there is a tweet that they can criticize as being in their eyes, you know, out of context or

misleading or something like that. You know, there's certainly people who are very eager to kind of instigate pylons or take part in pylons. And so, you know, part of it is that you really, to do this kind of work, have to have really thick skin and not take things overly personally. And so my rule of thumb that I sometimes, you know, forget, but I try to keep in mind is that it's almost always a bad idea to fight with people online. So, you know, if someone's really coming after me and I don't think there's any merit to what they are saying, I'll just try and ignore it. But sometimes you also have to be willing to take an L, you know, from time to time if there's a take that doesn't age well or if, you know, there have been tweets like all of us have posted, you know, where it's something that you end up regretting for one reason or another. And I think it's important to be kind of transparent about that when the situation warrants. But, you know, by and large, these instances where there have been big pylons over something that I've posted are usually people who just have it out for me anyway. And so, you know, I try to keep that in mind and just try to remain above the fray at this point. Um, you know, it was a little bit different when I was earlier in my career and sometimes getting into a kerfuffle with someone on Twitter, especially when, you know, it was coming from

a position where my criticism was warranted or, you know, there is a reporter that I was criticizing who wrote something that I thought, um, fell short in some way. I mean, sometimes you have to do that, you know, and that's just part of, uh, you know, of operating in this online space. But in general, I think it's good to turn the other cheek and, um, you know, like I said, try and kind of remain above the, you know, the gutter fighting that can sometimes take place on Twitter. Yeah, yeah. And there is a lot of merit, I think, to what you said about just taking the L and admitting when you're wrong in the events that it does happen. I think people do appreciate that a lot more than they would disparage you for having made, you know, that statement in the

first place. And, you know, I've done it. Everybody's done it. But I think the difference is whether you're willing to admit that you've done it. So, you know, a lot of why we have Trump or why why we had Trump in the first place is that the media pretty blindly gave him every minute of attention that he craved, right? Like the same is true for a lot of the worst actors in the GOP now. We have people like Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Bobert, Madison Cawthorne, and yet now I feel like there's kind of been a reckoning about how to deal with these people who clearly do stuff for attention, you know, who benefit from the outrage cycle. So how do you reconcile not giving oxygen to the worst actors on the right who so desperately crave it with the fact that, you know,

these things that they're saying are still happening even if we don't elevate them. How do you reconcile those two things? Yeah, it's a really good and difficult question to grapple with. And I think, Brian, you're totally correct that, you know, like Marjorie Taylor Green these days will hold a news conference and it's like every political reporter that I follow is like live tweeting it, you know, and just lavishing attention upon what she's saying. And so I tried to to, you know, as kind of a general rule, disentangle the signal from the noise. You know, there's a lot of tweets that, like, the Boberts of the world in particular, will post where it's almost like they're looking for you to get, you know, quote unquote triggered by it, to quote, tweet it,

dunking on her. You know, it's almost like the attention is kind of the point. And so, you know, I try to not kind of indulge those bad actors when they're just out there fishing for attention or holding these news conferences that don't really have a lot of news value. But for instance, you know, when Bobert made her comments recently about Ilhan Omar that were extremely Islamophobic and, you know, it became this topic as to whether or not Congress would try to, you know, Democrats essentially would try to take away her committee assignments or censure her in some way. I mean, I thought that that was a very newsworthy thing because it kind of symbolized a deeper rot in the GOP where this sort of bigot has become acceptable and something. for which there is no accountability. And so to me, you know, that was the type of outrage that I thought kind of rose to the level of being something that was highly newsworthy, whereas every tweet that Marjorie Taylor Green

Post isn't necessarily meeting that bar. And so it is kind of a case-by-case thing. But, you know, I try to always be mindful of statements or events that have kind of a broader significance for our politics rather than, you know, someone who's seeking attention in just saying things to get attention. So, you know, there isn't like an absolute rule of thumb, and it does kind of boil down to particular cases. But, you know, those are the principles that I try to keep in mind. And I try to use to inform my judgment on those things. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a, I think that's a great

point. Now, you've covered, you know, this stuff daily. Your, you're, your neck deep in the, in the rot of the GOP. Is there any moment that still shocked you even after the numbness that comes with covering the Trump administration and Republicans? Is there something that just totally stood out, that even amid, you know, all of the, how much you've adapted to the shitty, toxic political environment that we're in that just still struck you? Yeah, I mean, the one that leaps to mind, and this is, I guess, a little bit unsurprising at this point is obviously January 6th, you know, just watching what unfolded at the Capitol that day and sort of being in a state of numbness that, you know, Congress was literally under attack because they were trying to certify the

election that Joe Biden rightfully won. So that's the one, you know, obviously, I think for most people, that kind of stands out. You know, in terms of Trump specifically, I mean, the other one which is closely related to that, that I think has gotten a little bit forgotten, although, you know, it still comes up from time and time. It's just the rally earlier that day on January 6th and watching Trump's speech, you know, which was very incendiary in which clearly he was encouraging his supporters to, you know, if not attack the Capitol to, you know, aggressively kind of confront lawmakers there to try to bully them essentially into not certifying the election. Of course, you had Representative Mo Brooks talking about, you know, it's time to start kicking asses and

Rudy Giuliani kind of saying similar things. And so that whole rally kind of had the vibe of like a scene from like a fascist nation basically in a way that even though I had watched pretty much every speech that Trump had given going back to 2017 if not 2016 there was just a vibe of kind of aggression and grievance that permeated that whole day you know that I remember being stunned watching those speeches in the morning and then of course stunned watching the attack on the capital later into that afternoon. So, you know, it's obviously something that if you talk to, you know, 100 political reporters and ask them that that same question that you asked me, 95 of them would probably point to January 6th, though. Yeah. I'm off the top of my head. I sort of regret

that I can't come up with something different, but just to enter the question, honestly, I mean, that whole day, starting with the rally that morning, all the different speakers. And then even the night before, because if you recall in January 5th, there was a rally in downtown D.C. where Alex Jones spoke, where some of these more fringe characters who obviously were quite influential than the Trump White House, but, you know, were kind of these fringe right-wing media characters. You know, it was very clear that something wild was going to happen that next day on January 6th. And so, you know, I just kind of pinpoint that whole sequence of days as something that really sticks with me where something very unusual and dark was happening in our country.

Yeah. You know, you'd mentioned having covered every Trump speech, from basically 2015 on, does not having Trump in office, not having him have the platform that he used to have, has that had any benefit for your mental health since he's been out of the public eye? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, for my mental health, I'm not totally sure about that because, you know, I always viewed covering Trump as,

it didn't really, like, personally get me down in that way because I viewed it as very newsworthy events that I was covering kind of in my performance. professional capacity. And so obviously there was a lot of dark, you know, there's a lot of darkness that permeated that whole movement and still does permeate that whole movement. And so sure, I mean, did watching all those speeches take a toll? Absolutely. But I also kind of viewed it as something where I had a skill set that allowed me to kind of decode what he was saying in those events in a way that other people found useful. And so I, you know, it wasn't something that I

like dreaded per se. I mean, it might have been a little bit different had I actually been physically at these events and, you know, had to endure some of the abuse that, like, a Jim Acosta had to at those rallies or, you know, other reporters who maybe felt more directly physically threatened by what was going on there. I never actually have attended a Trump rally. I have always just watched them, you know, digitally on my computer, on TV, that sort of thing. So I don't know if it really had any impact on my mental health, but, you know, I think one thing that has been kind of interesting that has gotten a little bit lost in the shuffle of, you know, the political news these days is that I think Trump being kind of, you know,

leaving office and then being banished from social media, if anything, in a way, I think it's almost kind of helped him because it's sort of imposed more message discipline on him in a way that if, you know, if he was tweeting every day and the way that he was kind of constantly putting his foot in his mouth and reminding everybody how terrible he was, you know, now it seems like, obviously he still releases these statements that people, you know, largely ignore, including myself, but I think there's been kind of a weird benefit that's accrued to him by the fact that he's not out there, you know, weighing in on every political development and saying terrible things. And so, you know, there has been kind of a degree of discipline that that has imposed

upon his political operation that wasn't a thing previously when he was in office. And so, you know, that's kind of a side point that's different from sort of the mental health implications. But, you know, I will certainly say that watching a Biden speech compared to a Trump speech. Generally, I emerge from the Biden speech kind of feeling better about the world in a way that, you know, when you watch Trump speak for 90 minutes, yeah, I mean, you're kind of shaking your head in despair that this is what the country has come to. Certainly I don't feel that way watching Biden speak, you know, on the frequent, you know, the days frequently where he's weighing in on the pandemic or on what's going on in Congress in a way that's

much more professional in what we were used to with Trump. Yeah, less, less calls to poison control centers emerging after a Biden speech here. You know, I find that just by virtue of being so immersed in messaging all day probably gives you a good perspective of what works and what doesn't work. And now, you know, as we're in 2022, a midterm year, what would your advice in terms of messaging be for Democrats as we seek to hold the House and grow our Senate majority? Yeah. My advice is that I think Democrats sometimes don't do themselves any favors by kind of shying away

from framing these elections in their appropriate context, which is really that the GOP has been taken over by this authoritarian movement with Trump at its head. And so there's this aspect of every election kind of being an existential threat to democracy right now. And I think that Democrats sometimes sort of want to shy away from that and really kind of frame things around kitchen table issues, which, you know,

not to denigrate the importance of those issues on people's lives, because obviously it's very, very important. But I think that, you know, the appropriate context to think about this upcoming midterm and then to think about 2024 is really this kind of struggle that we're experiencing in our country

between democracy and authoritarianism. And I think, you know, kind of appropriately framing that choice in a way that will make sense to voters is a good tactic for Democrats to take. And I think, you know, we saw in 2018, obviously it was a different circumstance with Trump being in office,

but, you know, that election really became... all about Trump in a way that was very beneficial for Democrats and led the big blue wave that year. And, you know, again, every circumstance a little bit different. I mean, we saw recently in Virginia where the Democratic candidate, McColliffe, really tried to make that election about Trump in a way that was unsuccessful because, you know, his opponent, you know, was able to kind of parry the attacks, you know, it was able to successfully resist the effort to make the election all about Trump and was good at not talking about Trump. Trump. And so, you know, every circumstance is going to be a little bit different. But to me,

you know, sometimes when I see Democrats kind of getting lost in the weeds of policy in a way that I think kind of goes over the head of a lot of voters, I wish they would invest more effort in really kind of framing the stakes of these elections and kind of the stakes of the broader conflict that we're experiencing in our politics these days in a way that I think is accurate and compelling. And so, you know, that's kind of my, you know, 30,000 foot view on it. Again, with the caveat that I think every situation is a little bit different. But in general, that's kind of my overarching messaging advice. Yeah. And by the way, I would agree completely with that. I mean, my thing from the very beginning is to focus on voting rights because that's, you know, so much of that is

foundational. And if we don't have that, then it doesn't matter where anybody stands on women's reproductive rights. It doesn't matter where anybody stands on climate change. It doesn't matter where anybody stands on health care because we won't have the opportunity to enact any legislation anyway. And so with these attacks on democracy, whether it's being able to get rid of nonpartisan election officials or pass voter suppression legislation or partisan gerrymanders, whatever it is, if we don't focus on this stuff, on these threats toward democracy being perpetuated by a Republican Party that is anti-democratic, small D Democratic, then it's not going to matter what comes next. So I completely agree with you on those points.

to end with this. What, what drove your decision to ultimately leave Vox where you were and start a newsletter? Yeah, there were a few different factors. One was that, I mean, this is kind of, I don't know if this is like too inside baseball, but there was a ton as people who follow Vox are probably aware of turnover following the election last year where, you know, Ezra Klein left, Matthew Iglesias left, Laura McGahn, who was the political editor there left. And so, you know, there was kind of new editorial leadership that was coming in. And it felt like as a publication, there was sort of a move happening away from sort of the daily coverage that's been my bread and butter for many years now to more kind of magazine style feature length. Journalism, which I think is really important work.

And so I, you know, don't begrudge them for kind of making that shift. but it just felt like the fit for me was getting a little more tenuous. All the people who had hired me had left, and it was kind of a whole new team. And, you know, I was looking, heading into this midterm cycle. I plan on covering a lot of debates, a lot of speeches, you know, kind of diving in and out of these state and local races that I think kind of speak more broadly to what's going on nationally in our politics. And I, you know, I wanted to do that in a way that I was comfortable with.

And, you know, so this newsletter format that I'm working with now, I thought was a really good fit for that. And so, you know, I just kind of felt like after three years, it was time to move on and Substack provided a great opportunity for me to kind of continue to do the sort of work that I love doing on my own terms. And, you know, there's kind of this cliche with Substack. Oh, there's no editorial guidance. People are just kind of posting whatever they want. No, that's not true. I do actually have an editor that I work with. Yeah.

So it's not just me kind of ranting and raving into a newsletter. there is someone, you know, helping me and editing the stuff that I write. But, you know, again, it just kind of felt like in this world of political media that I'm in, you know, three plus years had a job is kind of a long time. And the opportunity to sort of be my own boss, be self-employed, and cover politics on my own terms was very attractive. And, you know, I'm blessed to have a large following on Twitter that kind of made the economies of scale work for it. You know, there's a lot of talented reporters that don't have the level of following. that I do. And so going solo is more of a challenge because it's just harder to find kind of a base

of people to drop them for subscribers. And so for me, you know, working with kind of a large audience to begin with that I, you know, obviously spent a lot of years growing. It just made the whole situation workable in a way that might not be the case for other political reporters. And so far so good. So, you know, at 2022, like I said, I really plan on intensively covering the midterms, intensively covering the extent, you know, Trump to the extent to which he's campaigning for Republican candidates and also Biden to the extent that he's campaigning for Democratic candidates. And so, yeah, I'm anticipating that it'll be a big year for political news. And so, you know, people are curious to read the stuff that I'm writing and to follow my

coverage. Check out public notice. It's aaronrupar.substack.com. Or you can just Google Aaron Rupar Public Notice and you'll find it in your Google results. Yeah. And we'll put the link to that in the show notes of this episode as well. So I would definitely recommend people subscribe to that. And if you're not yet following Aaron on Twitter, definitely give him a follow. It is one of, if not the most useful accounts that we have. So Aaron, with that said, thank you so much for the work you're doing and looking forward to continuing to follow you as we head into this midterm year. Yeah, thanks for having me on, Brian. Thanks again to Aaron. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week.

You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, interviews captured and edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nicholas Nicotera, and recorded in Los Angeles, California. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app. Feel free to leave a five-star rating and a review, and check out Briantylercoen.com for links to all of my other channels.