No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Pete Buttigieg shreds Republicans over vote against veterans

Episode Date: August 7, 2022

Biden has the single best week of his presidency. Brian interviews Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg, who responds to Republicans voting against veteran healthcare, debunks Republican lies about the new Inflation Reduction Act raising taxes, and reveals whether it’s difficult for him to get booked on Fox News. And Pete’s former senior adviser Lis Smith joins to discuss her work for campaigns in the deepest red areas, the career moment that still haunts her, her response to the abortion vote in Kansas, and her book, Any Given Tuesday: A Political Love Story.Donate to the "Don't Be A Mitch" fund: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dontbeamitchShop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we're going to talk about the single best week of Biden's presidency. I interview Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg about his response to Republicans voting against veteran health care. He debunks Republican lies about the new inflation reduction act raising taxes and whether it's difficult for him to get booked on Fox News. And coincidentally, I'm joined by Pete's former senior advisor, Liz Smith, to discuss her work for campaigns in the deepest red areas. The moment that still haunts her, her response to the abortion vote in Kansas, and her book Any Given Tuesday, A Political Love Story. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So I usually take a deep dive into one topic each week, but I'm going to switch things up this week because Biden just had the best week of his presidency. So instead of focusing on one thing, which seems counterproductive, I'm going to tell you about all of them because, dear God, we have to celebrate the wins when we get them.

So first off, Republicans were basically falling over themselves waiting for a jobs report that was expected to show signs of a slowing economy. It was predicted that about 250,000 jobs would be added, which would be a major decline from the roughly half a million jobs that had been added since Biden took office. That didn't happen. The U.S. economy added a pretty staggering 528,000 jobs the most since February, and the unemployment rate fell to a 50-year low of 3.5%, which is great for Americans and bad for Republican officials

who very desperately needed some proof points that were in a recession. and record low unemployment doesn't really do the many favors on that front. Another economic indicator, gas prices have continued their race downward. Prices hit a more than 50-day low, with the median U.S. price now being below $4 a gallon. This is the second largest 60-day decline on record at just short of a dollar per gallon. On the legislative front, which for months had seemed completely DOA, I remember on this very podcast talking and saying, you know, the only thing it's going to look like we've passed during the entirety of Biden's administration

was an infrastructure package. Turns out the Democrats reached a huge, huge deal on a reconciliation package. It's called the Inflation Reduction Act. It's got the support of both Joe Manchin and Kirsten Cinema would be the biggest investment in clean energy in U.S. history. It would allow the government to negotiate lower drug prices, reduce the deficit, increase IRS spending to ramp up enforcement on wealthy tax cheats, and impose a 15% minimum tax on billion-dollar corporations that currently pay nothing in taxes.

Every provision of this thing is hugely popular. So, again, this would be the biggest legislative achievement of Biden's presidency so far. Beyond that, the Pact Act passed the Senate that would allocate funding to veterans suffering from toxic burn pit exposure. That vote was held up last week when a bunch of Republicans decided to retaliate against Democrats for announcing the Inflation Reduction Act by blocking a bill for sick veterans. That backfired. They got absolutely skewered from every end.

and ultimately voted for the exact same bill that they voted against when it came back up for a vote. Just some unsolicited advice here. If you're going to try to retaliate against Democrats by blindly blocking legislation, maybe make sure that that legislation isn't allocating funding for American veterans, currently dying of cancer and other illnesses, that they sustained while overseas fighting in wars for this country. That one's free. The Chips Act also passed that would fund the domestic semiconductor chip industry

and make the U.S. more competitive for China. all those delays that you're experiencing right now from computers to cars, those items all require chips that have to come from overseas. Making them here in the U.S. will mean not only more jobs here, but shorter weights and an easing of inflation. On the international front, Al-Zawahiri, the leader of Al-Qaeda, was ordered killed by Biden. This guy was responsible for planning 9-11 along with Osama bin Laden,

and his death was universally applauded across the political spectrum. And finally, voters in Kansas, of all places, showed up. to vote down an effort to strip the right to an abortion from the state constitution there. That vote was 59 to 41, which is a huge signal to Democrats to focus on an issue that Republicans have miscalculated to a massive degree. If there was any doubt that this will be the issue that defines the midterms, that should be put to rest. And already a bunch of pollsters have moved predictions for congressional races to the left, based on the trends that we're seeing right now because of this decision. Turns out predicating your entire

political agenda on stripping Americans of their bodily autonomy while pandering to far-right Christian nationalist might not be a great mid-term strategy after all. You know, all in all, huge job numbers, record low unemployment, gas prices dropping, climate legislation, veterans' health care legislation, domestic chip production legislation, the leader of Al-Qaeda killed, and voters siding with Democrats in even the reddest of states. But what makes these things even more potent is when you juxtapose them with the Republican agenda. Where Republicans have power right now, they ban abortion. They're trying to ban contraception and interstate travel, trying to punish doctors. They're prohibiting the acknowledgement of the

existence of LGBT Americans. They ban books. They cut billionaires taxes. These things aren't theoretical. They're happening right now where Republicans have control. So if that's what you're looking for, the Republican Party's for you. But if you're looking for job growth, veteran care, manufacturing jobs coming home, climate projections, and reproductive rights, then I make sure I have a plan to vote in November. The choice here could not be more obvious. You know, this week was a really good start, but there's a lot more work to do. Next up is my interview with Pete Buttigieg. Now we have the Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg. Thanks so much for coming back on.

Good to be back with you. So I want to start in a bit of an unorthodox way here, since this isn't your professional area. But, you know, this past week, the Pact Act was finally passed after Senate Republicans took a beating for initially blocking it. as retaliation for Democrats introducing a reconciliation bill. So as someone who served in the military and who knows about all the sacrifices that are veterans have made, how does it make you feel not as a public servant,

but as a person when you saw Republicans vote against this? Well, you know, one thing a lot of veterans frequently feel is the sensation of being used as political props. And when you see people who don't hesitate to embrace veterans for a photo op or, politically convenient opportunity, but then not be there when veterans actually need you for something as important as protecting them when they've been exposed to toxins as a direct result of service in a war zone. It's infuriating. And better late than ever, I'm glad that they got

this done. It should never have been this hard. These same senators voted for it before they voted against it before they voted for it. And, you know, especially in a party that has a long tried to present itself as the more pro-national security party, although I don't think any party has a monopoly on that. It was a frustrating thing to watch. But also, let me say this, a real testament to the power of people with a lot of moral authority standing up for themselves. And, you know, you saw those vets out there on the Capitol steps day and night. And I think really did leave those senators, those Republican senators who had flip-flop, really left them with no choice, but to come in and do the right thing. Yeah. Now, this past week, Democrats unveiled the

Inflation Reduction Act, and recently both Joe Manchin and Kirsten Cinema expressed support. So barring any catastrophe, and I realize that, you know, that might be a pretty low bar these days, but barring any catastrophe, that bill is going to pass. First off, can you give a quick outline of what's in this very, very long-awaited bill? Yeah, so this is a big deal on many fronts. First of all, as the name suggests, the Inflation Reduction Act, it's going to help with the finances of this country, importantly, reducing the deficit. It's also going to lead to a fairer tax code. Right now, there are a lot of corporations that have paid zero on billions of dollars in profits. This would change that

without raising taxes on any individual American facing, you know, there have been some misleading stories that that suggested it would, but it doesn't do that. It's the most significant climate legislation in our lifetimes. I would argue ever, the only thing that's even comparable in terms of what it would do for climate is the infrastructure law that got passed last year that my department and I are working on implementing. It includes EV credits to make electric vehicles more affordable, used as well as new. We're excited about that because a lot of Americans could be saving a lot of money by owning an EV, but only if they could afford it, this makes it cheaper. And by the way, for a lot of people on Capitol Hill who have been criticizing EVs for being too expensive, now they have a chance to

vote to make them cheaper, and I hope they'll do that. Now, there are Republicans who claim that this will raise taxes on people. You obviously alluded to that before. Looking for a very clear answer here, will this bill raise taxes on families making under $400,000 a year? No, this bill absolutely will not raise taxes on anyone making $400,000 a year. Any bill that did that, the president wouldn't sign. It's been debunked repeatedly and swiftly. And, you know, it's worth note that this bill has support from economists, Treasury secretaries, from both parties. It is the right thing to do for the country. And it's going to make a big difference. Also, prescription drugs. So many things that Americans already know is the right thing to do. Now, whether you're talking about climate, prescription drugs, or fair taxes. Also, making sure that it's harder for wealthy people to cheat on their taxes. I've never met somebody who's pro letting wealthy people cheat on their taxes. So let's all come together and agree that we should do something about that so that the rest of us aren't picking up the tab. Yeah, well, that's probably because you haven't come face to face with Donald Trump in a minute. So what does it say about Republicans

that, you know, they're likely going to unanimously vote against allowing the government to negotiate lower drug prices and to make our energy cleaner and cheaper and paying down the debt? all things that they've lauded in the past and yet suddenly want to prevent it from becoming law. Look, I guess what I would say is they have an opportunity to put their vote where their mouth is. And I know experiences thought us not to be too hopeful about this, but I don't think there's any reason why a few of them at least couldn't cross over. By the way, you know, I want to say on the law that has most shaped my work this year, the bipartisan infrastructure law, we had a lot of Republicans cross over to join. Democrats and the president and vote for that legislation that we are now using to enhance transit and improve airports and build bridges across the country. So it can be done. They can

physically do it. And we would love nothing more than to have bipartisan support for this bill. There's nothing about it that has to be a party-line vote, especially since it does reduce the deficit. It does strengthen America's energy future. It hits on so many things that are wildly popular we would be American people, and at least on paper, have been things that conservatives say they believe in, too. And on top of that, if I could add, they're probably going to take credit for it anyway, so you might as well just vote for the thing. Okay, so let's transition now to exactly what you were speaking about, the bipartisan

infrastructure law. You know, one major element of the Inflation Reduction Act is the funding for rebates for electric vehicles, like you mentioned, which brings me to this broader work of the bipartisan infrastructure package which is another major legislative win for this administration. So first off, because transportation is a huge contributor to emissions and because the transition to eBs is going to be so important, and because that transition is so reliant on easing range anxiety, how is it going on the charging station front? Yeah, this is really critical. Like you just said, this is a big part of the climate challenge. If you care about climate change, you've got to take a look at

transportation because it's the biggest sector in the economy emitting greenhouse gases and the biggest part of that is the surface side, the cars and trucks. So making sure that we reduce emissions from cars is critical to meeting the climate challenge. There's two pieces to that. One is making electric vehicles more affordable. They're getting more affordable because the manufacturers are making more and more of them and they get better and better at it. But there's still often a higher sticker price than a comparable gas vehicle that's causing some people to hesitate to buy them. That's why the Inflation Reduction Act is going to make a big difference. But then we have the law that already passed.

That includes funding for charging stations across the country. And we just actually got the applications. And the way the funding works, the first piece of it, is that the states put together their plans for how they're going to make sure that there's a network of charging stations along our highway system, every 50 miles or less, making sure there are charging stations. So the same way that today, if you're taking a road trip on the interstate, you know there's going to be gas stations between where you start and where you're going. Now, we get to where we have the same thing for electric.

The president's vision is half a million charging stations by the end of this decade. And with the funding that we have here, we can help make that a reality. Now, what are some other tangible impacts of the bipartisan infrastructure law? You know, it's incredible what's happening right now because more than one major announcement the week is happening. And by announcement, I don't just mean a single project. I mean a program with dozens of projects. A few weeks ago, we announced an airport terminal program,

85 different airports around the country getting improvements. And for those of us who dealt with the summer travel seasons, you see those long lines, getting better baggage claim, bigger security checkpoints, whole new gates and terminals in some cases, making them more accessible, a big, big deal, and just the beginning on that. You can look from that airport work all the way through to making transit stations more accessible for people with wheelchairs, which makes everybody better off, is if you're not a wheelchair user,

if you've ever pushed a stroller or pulled a suitcase, you know the benefits to making sure that we have more accessible transit platforms. Just on Monday, I was in New Jersey at the Portal North Bridge. This is a critically important bridge. It carries 200,000 rail passengers a day, more than 400 trains. Its economic significance is so great that if it were

to become out of service. You'd be feeling the economic impact of that, you know, the Midwest where I'm from. But that bridge is 111 years old, and it's a moving bridge. It swings in order to allow boats to pass by on the Hackensack River under it. It is so antiquated that sometimes when they swing it back into place so that the trains can go across it, they have to use sledgehammers to get the rails back into alignment. Obviously, not the kind of thing you want on a major, major access point for a critical part of the Northeast Quarter that millions of people count on.

So we broke around on the repairs to that on Monday, a replacement of that bridge. So those are just a few examples of what we're up to. It's such an exciting time if you believe in upgrading American infrastructure. Feeling a lot of pride right now for my home state of New Jersey with that explanation. You might have just answered my next question, but in going around the country and helping allocate funds for this law, what was the most dilapidated piece of infrastructure that you came across? Yeah, no, we've seen it everywhere. I mean, that region, also the Hudson River tunnels, which was some of the finest construction engineering of 1910, but needs an upgrade.

grade, went on a riverboat in Pittsburgh to look at the condition of the bridges there. There's one that has mesh netting hung up in order to catch pieces of concrete that fall off of it from time to time. We've seen that underinvestment, a lot of times in rural and smaller communities, too. One of those airports that we did out of those 85 I was just talking about, we announced an award for an airport in Chamberlain, South Dakota. Right now, their general aviation terminal is a mobile home. We're funding them to have a permanent structure.

So it really is, you know, from $1.5 billion to get a major bridge on the Northeast corridor to an investment that might look small in one of our biggest cities, but is going to mean the world to the kind of community that's that it's serving. These things are going to make a difference everywhere. The calculus has changed as we now head into November in that Americans are seeing more clearly than ever the extent to which Republicans are trying to take our rights away. You know, they did it with abortion rights and then immediately turn the their attention on to interstate travel and contraception and even same-sex marriage.

Now, you're married to Chaston. You've got twins who are very soon turning one, so congratulations. What's your message to those Republicans who somehow feel that your marriage is an imposition to them? I guess the message is if you're pro-family, be pro every family. Be pro my family. My family's bedrock, cornerstone, of course, is my marriage to Chaston, which is the foundation for a loving family where we are raising two amazing children, our twins. And millions of families are now wondering if our rights, if our freedoms, our protections are going to be taken away.

And so far, their position, most of them is, yes, they'll take that away. There was a vote in the House of Representatives. Most of the Republican representatives voted no on marriage equality, which I think is a real warning sign for a country that might have thought once the vast majority of Americans came to believe in this right, that that right was secure. But, you know, they meant it when they said they were going to take away the right to choose. And when they say that they are against the right to marry, I believe them. On the transportation front, the president signed an executive order a few days ago protecting. travel for abortions, that's going to be challenged by Republican officials who can't lunge to the far right fast enough. How do you anticipate those challenges are going to play out?

And what's your message to Americans more broadly as they watch these draconian efforts from the right play out? Well, first of all, to make your voices heard. Look, Americans don't have to take sitting down the withdrawal of their rights. And I think you're right. We're going to see more attempts, even over and above what we saw already with the Supreme Court decision. that took away the right to choose as a national right. Now, state after state, we're going to see different encroachments on this, very concerned about proposed attempts to restrict people's ability to travel interstate. We're watching that very closely in accordance with the president's executive order.

And the thing we've got to remember, of course, is that most Americans are with us. It's a deeply felt complex issue, which for the last 50 years, we've decided as a country would be handled by, by whoever's actually facing the choice instead of some government efficient. And I think that remains where most, I know that remains where most Americans believe we ought to be. It's where the president believes that we ought to be. And it's time for people to speak up. Look at what happened in Kansas.

Extraordinary results in an initiative where voters got to weigh in directly on the right to choose and made it very clear that they did not want to go back on that. So you can see the power of people speaking up. And that's something that, you know, is going to be really important to the future of these rights in this country. Perfectly put. You know, historically, Transportation Secretary hasn't been the most visible job in the cabinet. But, you know, you have the opportunity now to serve at a time where you're helping remake the face of America. What do you hope that your legacy is going to be at the end of your time in the cabinet?

Well, I hope people are going to be able to look back at this period. say, first of all, that our country built good things well, which is hard to do, even when you do have the funding. We got that part through under the president's leadership. Now we've got to deliver, and that's not a simple thing. I also want people to be able to look back and say that during this time, travel in our country got safer. You know, I happen to be flying today, and we don't take for granted that this is a country where in a mode of transportation that involves millions of people being shot through the air at very nearly the speed of sound in a metal tube and then return to Earth, there have been most recent years zero airline crash fatalities that didn't just happen on its own. We've got to maintain that and in other areas, notably roadway deaths, where there is, I know the word gets overused, but truly a crisis. If you look at the number of people getting killed on our roadways, something that we're used to. We talk about it like it's normal. It's not normal. It's not inevitable. is happening far too often, and we have to act on that.

So looking back, I want people to say that, you know, we stepped up to make this a safer country, that transportation was a big part of the answer on climate, that our country became more equitable and fair because we used transportation to connect people and to connect people across the economic and racial lines that have been used to divide them. And above all, that in order to do all of those things, we took the resources that were entrusted to us by the American people and built good things well. All right. I'd be I'd be a fool not to ask this last question, but is it getting harder for you to get booked on Fox News? You know, so far, they're still having me from time to time. And look, there are a lot of people who tune into that

network in good faith. And I can't blame them for not understanding our positions if I don't go on there to tell them about them. So as long as they'll have me, I'll continue to go from time to time and talk about what I believe in and hopefully connect with some people on things that shouldn't have to be that ideological. Well, there's no better messenger than you. So Pete Buttigieg, thank you so much for taking the time and good luck as you continue to crisscross the country here,

you know, kind of like I said before, remaking the face of America. Thanks very much. Great being with it. Thanks again to Pete. Now we've got political strategist, former senior advisor to Pete, and author of the new book, Any Given Tuesday, A Political Love Story, Liz Smith.

so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. But you know, when you introduce me, you have to say author of the new New York Times bestselling book. Yes. Any given Tuesday. Yes. Well, there you go. You've done my job for me. So let's start off with Pete. Obviously, I'm not going to ask him about recent polling, showing him edging out all other presidential contenders for 2024. Why not? Why not? But I can ask you. It would be sort of fun. It would be fun. I'm not because probably because I'd actually like an answer on it. You know, I should caveat this with the fact that this is one poll for something two and a half years away. But what was your reaction to that poll?

I mean, my first thought was, wow, there's going to be some awkward cabinet meetings going forward. But I'm not completely surprised. New Hampshire was a great state for Pete. He had the closest second place finish in New Hampshire primary history. but I don't put too much stock in it. I am someone who believes that Joe Biden is going to run for president and that he will win re-election. So I understand that a lot of people in Washington, D.C.

love to, you know, chat about all these possible scenarios and if Biden doesn't run. But I really think Biden's going to run and I feel very confident in his reelection prospects. If you had to predict, like right here in August of 2022, where Pete ends up at the peak of his, career. Where would that be? Man, you're trying to get me in trouble. Look at you. Look, I don't have a crystal ball. I cannot predict the future. I can tell you where I would like

to see him end up. I would love to see him end up as president. And he ran an incredible campaign that no one thought was possible. The idea of an 37-year-old, openly gay, mayor of a town of 100,000 people going from 0% name ID to winning the Iowa caucuses is something that really isn't in the American political imagination. And I think he's done an outstanding job as Secretary of Transportation and shown a lot of leadership, maturity, seriousness, thoughtfulness. And so, yes, I can't predict the future, but I personally, I would obviously love to see him as president one day.

In your book, you focus on campaigns that Democrats don't usually win. You know, you've worked in Missouri, Kentucky, Ohio. What is it about taking on the least enviable campaigns in America that draws you to them? Well, like, if you only work on winning campaigns and you only work in the bluest of states, you really don't get a sense for how politics works. And you really, I think you learn a lot more from the campaigns you lose than the campaigns that you win. And my experience is working in these tough states in South Dakota and Ohio and Kentucky and Missouri. And for the record, Claire McCaskill won the race that I worked on for her in

Missouri. But is that it led me to understand that there's no one way to be a Democrat, right? And we sometimes have this view in the Democratic Party that you have to check all of these boxes. You have to meet every ideological purity test to be a nominee or to win an election and get Democratic support. And that's just not how the world works. You know, I started out by knocking doors, you know, in South Dakota for Tom Dashel. And the majority, not only of voters, but the majority of Democrats that I talked to, their top issues were, one, they were pro-life. And two, they were anti-marriage equality, anti-gay marriage. And so that was not at all the Democrats that I was used to growing up in New York or even dealing with in New Hampshire.

And it taught me that we need to be a big 10 party. We can't be a majority party if we expect everyone to think like people like me in New York and the West Village do. And that there's no one way to be a Democrat. And working on all these tough races really showed me that. And I think gave me a broader perspective on this that frankly I wish more people in Washington had. I do think that people see are seeing right now, or at least I hope that people are seeing right now that it's not going to, you know, that the Democratic Party is not a monolith. And if we expect to have a big tent party, then we can't just have monolithic candidates. So I do think that people are recognizing that.

And if the priority here is winning, which I think people are also seeing, you know, is the most. important thing as democracy hangs in the balance, then you're not going to always get what you want if you have a candidate running in a place like Ohio, right? And it's fascinating. Right. And no, it's a great point. And frankly, we need more people like you out there saying us because I know that you have a very progressive audience. But look at John Federman in Pennsylvania. He's winning back white working class voters, you know, people that a lot of Democrats said, oh, a lot of national Democrat said that we should just write off. And he's someone who is pro fracking. He rejects the idea of the Green New Deal. So he doesn't meet every litmus test. You have Tim Ryan in

Ohio, who obviously is not like pro Medicare for all and who recently rejected the endorsement of AOC because he understands that that is like the kiss of death in the Mahoning Valley. And so if we want to be a majority party, we need to give people. space to be who they are and to represent the values of the people they want to represent. And to win Ohio these days, you can't just win with Democratic votes. And that's why Tim's being really smart by going on Fox News, running ads on Fox News, featuring Tucker Carlson praising him, which I'm sure makes a lot of Democrats like vomit in their mouths. But you got to win. And you can't win by being, you know, by being AOC.

in some of these places. In your book, you also talk about getting in the mud in the New Jersey gubernatorial race against Chris Christie. You write, quote, too often politicians and their handlers talk themselves into the value of taking the high road and running a clean campaign. So I have a couple questions on this. The first is that the DNC took a lot of flack lately for basically running ads, promoting Peter Meyer's primary opponent.

Meyer was one of the only Republicans to vote against Trump's impeachment. And so obviously, it's a bit controversial for Democrats to both lament these shitty Republicans and at the same time fund an election denier. So I'm curious what your thoughts are not just on that race, but absolutely on that race, but also the idea of playing with fire, basically, elevating more extreme candidates who will be easier to beat in the general, but also who may get swept into office. Yeah. So, well, anyone who has read any given Tuesday, and if you haven't read it, you're insane. But anyone who's read it knows that I love to play with fire. So I'm maybe the wrong person to ask this question of. But to your question about

Meyer, that one didn't sit right with me that Democrats spent money against him. And it wasn't just because we were like lifting up an election denier. We are doing something that I think is fundamentally counterproductive, which is taking away sort of the permission space, the permission structure for Republicans to take reasonable votes that go against the party line. And you think about the, you know, the handful of Republicans across the aisle to vote for the infrastructure bill. Are we going to go in and run ads against them? Then if you are a Republican, what is the incentive to be bipartisan if the Democrats reward you by rat fucking you with all these ads. And more than lifting up an election denier, I think it signal, it's just a bad faith move from

Democrats. And we need, I don't want to help the Republican Party out, but like I don't think that we need to punish and take these things out on people who do the right thing. And the reality is that Meyer would have lost that primary anyway. So why did we even waste money on it? Because I think the message it sends is a really bad one. Now, I do to say, agree with some of the criticism of, like, the Democratic Governors Association running ads in some of these races. Like, let's take Pennsylvania as an example, where they did run ads. I think it was either them or Josh Shapiro's campaign ran ads talking about how Doug Maastriano was the most conservative Republican in the race. Like, there were no moderates in that primary. There were no Tom Ritches.

The second place candidate was Lou Barletta, who was a fake electorate. for Donald Trump. So that's a little bit of a different situation, you know. And it is important, too, for Democrats to make Republicans own they're crazy. And Republican voters are not children. And the Republican elites sometimes treat their voters as if they are children and talk about them as if they are children. But if they vote for the candidates that they see these ads about, like, that's on them. and they're all human being. They're all grown-ass human beings. Right.

Okay, I got a two-parter here. Up to now in your career, what was the moment that you were most proud of and the moment that still haunts you? Most proud of was Iowa with Pete. That night was like indescribable because, and I'll be quick on this. But when I went to go work for Pete,

I had talked to other people who were going to run for the president. who had tried to recruit me to work for them, much bigger names, I would say. And I remember one of my friends, when I took the Pete gig and told her about it, was like, did you, like, lose a bet or something? And it was such a joke to people. And it was a joke to friends, friends in politics, reporters. Reporters, and I write about it in my book this one time that I was sitting down with reporters

and Pete, and one of them was like, Liz, what are you doing? Why don't you go work for Beto? And there are so many slights like that over time, but I just knew that Pete had what it takes. So winning Iowa really was just, I mean, electrifying. The thing that haunts me the most, you know, it would probably be the Cuomo stuff, you know, that I helped advise Cuomo. on his sexual harassment scandal because I thought I was doing the right thing. You know, it was someone I loved, trusted. He was a mentor.

He was a father figure. And I am someone who understands what it's like to be in the middle of a PR crisis and understands how people in politics are the most opportunistic, soulless motherfuckers, right? They are cut and run artists. They are there for you. when you're at your peak and then nowhere to be found the second you encounter any trouble.

And I never, ever wanted to be one of those people. And so I thought I was doing the right thing by trying to help them out. But what I realized, and it was a tough lesson for someone who has been through so much and should have known better, that like loyalty isn't always a virtue and that blind loyalty is absolutely not a virtue. And then that, that loyalty needs to be a two-way street because, one, Andrew Cuomo did not give us the truth about all the allegations. He said, you know, nothing more would come out. Two, he asked so many of us to put our names or reputations on the line for him. And three, it's when he resigned, it's not like only his career ended. I know so many people who lost their jobs,

lost their reputations, lost board seats, whatever it is, because they were. We're just, went out and put their name on the line for him. And what haunts me is I'm fine. I'm now a New York Times bestselling author. But like, these people aren't fine. And I don't even know if he lost a minute of sleep about any of that. And I write about that. That was one of the most difficult parts of my book to write was, you know, obviously writing about my dad dying was really tough, but was writing the part about all of the collateral damage and all the harm that it did to other people, putting myself aside, because those are the people that I think about the most. Okay, so let's move over to what's happening today. Let's have a more uplifting

conversation. Well, I don't know if it's going to be more uplifting, maybe. You know, I don't know if current politics is ever uplifting, but we'll try. In these red areas, you know, the conventional wisdom is always to focus on kitchen table issues, the economy, gas prices, jobs. But the thing I've wrestled with is like those things seem so small in the face of these attacks on democracy. And yet at the same time, for a family of four in Ohio trying to get by, I realize that attacks on democracy could be too nebulous, right? So in these swingy areas, how do you reconcile the Trump of it all, the, you know, anti-democratic factions of at all with the standard economic issues as far as what Democrats should be talking about?

That's a very, very good question. And it's a question that I know a lot of campaign strategists wrestle with. Because the reality is that the discussion that you see on cable news every day, which is January 6, January 6, January 6, January 6th, January 6th, is very divorced from the discussion that most people have around their kitchen tables to the extent that, you know, know, people still gather on their kitchen tables these days. Who knows? Are you suggesting that the family isn't getting together and asking what they think about the Christopher Miller memo? Exactly, exactly. But you can do two things at once. And a great example of that was,

and I write about this in my book, Any Given Tuesday, is the Obama 2012 campaign. In 2012, when Obama was running for re-election, people said he was doomed. They suggested he should be replaced at the top of the ticket by Hillary Clinton, which in retrospect, whoever made that prediction, did not get it right. And it's the funny thing about predictions and politics is that all of these people, they'll predict things wrong every single day. And they're all still like bring right back on TV. You know, all the people that are still saying, you know, where is DeSantis is a

apology and Clinton's the there's still people writing today like in 2022 that Clinton's going to be that Hillary Clinton should be running anyway that was just keep dude I know I know and that's why I refused to make that prediction with you before because after 2016 you know I'm going to do a part two on things that haunt me in 2016 on TV I said that at some point I think I said that Donald Trump had like a zero percent chance of winning so that haunts me So I don't make predictions anymore. To your question about that is so on the Obama campaign in 2012, what we did was, you know, no president had been reelected with unemployment as high as it was. So the economy was a really big issue.

And we realized that if the race were just a referendum on Barack Obama and his economic record that he would lose. So one, we went really, really hard at Mitt Romney over his record as CEO of Bain and his business. poor record as governor of Massachusetts, where the state was like 47th in job growth. And, you know, as you can imagine, his job at Bain was like buying companies, you know, sucking all the profits out of them and laying off all the workers. And that stuff does not play well in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, all the states that you need to win. So we did that.

And that was important to talk about the economic stuff. But we also made sure to communicate about, you know, the Republicans' extreme turn to the right on issues of contraception, abortion, and immigration. And this is a little bit different from what you're asking about, about January 6th. But Dobbs, I think, is going to be a bigger factor than January 6 for voters. And we, frankly, we saw that in Kansas. where turnout was through the roof and you don't exactly associate Kansas with being socially liberal. So you can communicate about the economy, but then you can also talk about how the Republicans want to take away your fundamental rights. They want to undermine your elections. And let's just

use the example of Doug Mastriano in Pennsylvania. Yes, so prosecute the economic case against him. But then make it, make January 6th, not about the past, what happened. you know, two years ago, make it about the future that if you vote to elect Doug Masteriano and a Democrat wins Pennsylvania, like, they're not actually going to win Pennsylvania because he will work over time to invalidate your vote. And he wants politicians and not voters to pick the next president. And so that's how I would communicate it, make it less about the past and more about the future and how they want to take away your rights. That's a great point. You mentioned Kansas. In Kansas, you know, clearly the issue of protecting reproductive rights resonated with people. But in that election, there was a clear separation between that issue and the candidates who espoused their beliefs on that issue. So do you think that when you aren't able to separate the issue and the candidate that those pro-choice conservatives, you know, who, because there were conservatives in Kansas came out and voted against the Republican position on there, do you think that those pro-choice conservatives are going to be able to vote for Democrats?

Hard to say. So I think with Dobbs that it has two effects. One, it gets Democrats who are maybe not enthused. Democrats are not great midterm voters, especially when our party's in power. I mean, Democrats are amazing in 2018. But the Republicans are much better at turning out their voters in the midterms than we are. And that's just historical fact. But I think that for the Democrats who were like, Oh, why am I going to vote? Joe Biden didn't cancel all my student loan debt, that now the stakes are raised and it's like, wow, fundamental rights are on the ballot. So I need to get up and I need to go and vote. I need to give money. I need to knock on doors, whatever it is. And then the other group that I think Dobbs effects are what I call the Biden-Yunkin voters. You know, the voters who turned out for Biden in 2020, but then in the first gubernatorial race in 2021, voted for, you know, Glenn Yon because, you know, they were dissatisfied with Joe Biden. They didn't think he, you know, they didn't like his handling of Afghanistan. They didn't like inflation, gas prices, whatever it was. Now, for a lot of those people, this has got now a bridge too far, the abortion, the Dobbs ruling. And it's going to be a lot harder for them to go vote for a republic. who wants to take away their rights.

And especially when you see that, like, these are not Republicans who support exceptions for rape or incest or health or life of the mother. They want complete and total bans on abortion. And that is a position that is not only outside the mainstream of the American public, but is outside the mainstream of Republicans. The majority of Republicans believe that we need to have, um, certain exceptions for abortion, rape, incest, health, life of the mother. And so I did see that in Kansas, but I do think ultimately that it's going to be really, really hard for people who

even call themselves pro-life to cast a ballot for someone who would implement a full, complete ban on abortion. Let's finish off with this. What's next for you? What is next for me? So I've got this book tour thing going on and I'm thrilled about it and I'm so happy that I got to write this book. It was a book I wanted to read when I was getting involved in politics when I was 18, 19. And so I want to get the word out about it. I want it to get inspired more people to get involved in politics. But then before I go on that magical vacation that I'm envisioning, I'm going to work my fucking ass off. to get as many Democrats elected as possible.

And I am helping out a number of Democrats across the country. One of them who is an absolute star, and I hope all of your listeners tune into, is Mallory McMorrow in Michigan. I don't like to make big predictions, but I do think she could be the first woman president. I think she is amazing. She is one of the Democrats' best communicators, and she is working to, flip the Michigan State Senate. And Democrats need to start doing what Republicans did, which is not just focusing on the presidency, not just focusing on Congress, not just focusing on Senate races, but focusing on building up our party from the bottom up. And Dobbs didn't

come out of nowhere. Dobs came out of a 50-year Republican campaign to elect Republicans at every level of elected office. And if, you know, a Republican president didn't give them exactly everything they wanted within the first year of their administration, Republicans didn't say, oh, I'm done. I'm sitting on my hands. I'm not going to vote in this election. They went out and they voted. And they kept voting. And they kept voting for Republicans at every level. And that's how we ended up with the Supreme Court that we have. And so if we want, want to get our rights, protect our rights and do all that, we need to have the same commitment and understand that Joe Biden is not a magician. He is a president. He can't like flip a switch

and do everything that everyone wants and satisfy every need of every American. But like he's a hell of a lot better than what the alternative is. So so that's what I'm going to do next is, is really help Democrats where I can. And I really do want to help bring a focus, especially to state, level races. That's great. We'll leave it there. The book, again, is any given Tuesday, a political love story. I get books all the time. This was absolutely one of my favorite reads. Your stories are so interesting. Thank you for sharing them. Congratulations on the book, and thank you again for coming on. Yes, thank you. And tell Pete. Well, I guess you already interviewed Pete, but anyway, I love Pete. So, and I loved this interview, and I'm looking forward to

talking to you again. Thanks again to Liz. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellsey, interviews captured and edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nicholas Nicotera, and recorded in Los Angeles, California. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app. Feel free to leave a five-star rating and a review, and check out Brian Tyler Cohen.com for links to all of my other channels. Thank you.