No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Republicans fail spectacularly while attacking student loan forgiveness

Episode Date: August 28, 2022

Biden finally forgives student loan debt and the Republicans fail while attempting to capitalize off of it. Brian interviews the Secretary of Education, Miguel Cardona, about the details of that debt elimination and his response to Republicans who’ve attacked loan forgiveness even when they themselves benefited from forgiven PPP loans. And the Democratic nominee for Arizona Secretary of State, Adrian Fontes, joins to talk about his Republican opponent being a literal Oath Keeper, how that guy could weaponize the Secretary of State office if he wins, and Fontes' message to pro-democracy Republicans who’ve never voted for a Democrat.SUPPORT ADRIAN FONTES: www.electfontes.comDonate to the "Don't Be A Mitch" fund: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dontbeamitchShop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we're going to talk about Biden finally for giving student loan debt and the Republicans' disastrous failed attempt at capitalizing off of it. I interview the Secretary of Education, Miguel Cardona, about the details of that debt elimination and his response to Republicans who've attacked loan forgiveness, even when they themselves benefited from forgiven PPP loans. And I'm joined by the Democratic nominee for Arizona Secretary of State, Adrian Fontez, about his Republican opponent being a literal oathkeeper, how that guy could weaponize the Secretary of State's office. if he wins, and his message to pro-democracy Republicans who've never voted for a Democrat before. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So the White House has gotten the memo, gloves are off, and they're finally fighting back on all fronts.

Okay, so this is just my favorite thing. After Biden had released his long-awaited and exceedingly popular plan to forgive between $10,000 and $20,000 of student loan debt for those making under $125,000 a year, Republicans dutifully started attacking. And so all of these Republicans came out of the woodwork to talk about, you know, how unfair it is that these loans are being forgiven. But the problem is that the Republicans who spoke out against it also just so happened to have personally received PPP loans that were then forgiven.

Like Marjorie Taylor Green came out and said this. Taxpayers all over the country, taxpayers that never took out a student loan, taxpayers that pay their bills and, you know, maybe even never went to college. or just hardworking people, they shouldn't have to pay off the great big student loan debt for some college student that piled up massive debt

going to some Ivy League school. That's not fair. And so the White House Twitter account quote tweeted that and said, quote, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green had $183,504 in PPP loans forgiven. So when she, you know,

clutches her pearls over the government saying, okay, your debt is completely forgiven, while the government literally saw her debt and said, okay, your debt is completely forgiven. Here's another Republican. Vern Buchanan, who I've never even heard of, but if an AI bot had to create a Republican and name him, I swear he would be named Vern Buchanan.

He said this. A lot of families in our region, they've been talking about forgiveness of loans for the last four or five months are very, very upset. Many of them work two jobs to be able to put their kids through college and then to think that a lot of these loans are going to be forgiven is wrong. And they're very outraged about it. The White House Twitter account,

Quote tweeted that and said, quote, Congressman Vern Buchanan had over $2.3 million in PPP loans forgiven. Mark Wayne Mullen whined on Twitter about paying student debt. The White House Twitter account quoted him and said, Congressman Mark Wayne Mullen had over $1.4 million in PPP loans forgiven. It happened to Republicans Kevin Hearn, who had a million dollars forgiven. Mike Kelly, who had $987,000 forgiven. Even Matt Gates, who had $482,000 forgiven.

I mean, this was like scientifically engineered to backfire in the most spectacular way possible. You quite literally couldn't have worse spokespeople for this issue than if like Matt Gates became the spokesperson for child safety. I don't know if these Republicans didn't know that PPP loan information was publicly available or, you know, if they're just so used to lying in the most shameless way possible that it never actually occurred to them, the White House Twitter account would drag them with the most viral tweet of its existence, but either way, I don't think they're going to complain too much about loan forgiveness anymore. Plus, in terms of them complaining, there's also the fact that it's

hugely popular. Although I got to be honest, I don't exactly think that the Republican Party is interested in doing what's popular and being guided by what's popular. You know, I think that chip is probably sailed. The party is literally running on stripping women of their bodily autonomy. It's probably only slightly less popular than killing puppies as far as policy platforms go. So, I'm pretty sure that the fact that people want these student loans forgiven is going to have zero effect on the GOP. But taking a step back here and kind of looking at this from 30,000 feet as we head into November, what's striking is that all of this kind of came together at the right time.

Everything that's happened in the last month or so has served to really neutralize every single attack that Republicans have put forward. So Republicans claim that Democrats were ineffective. Okay, well, Democrats passed the Inflation Reduction Act. That's the biggest climate investment in history, lower drug costs, made the rich pay their fair share. They passed chips to bring the semiconductor chip industry back to the U.S., pass the PACT Act to give health care to veterans, past the American Rescue Plan, past the infrastructure package, past the first gun bill in decades, and of course, eliminated between $10,000 and $20,000 in student loan debt. Republicans claim that Democrats are bad for jobs. Okay, well, Democrats recovered every job lost during the pandemic, added the most jobs of any administration in U.S. history and,

brought the unemployment rate down to a 50-year low. Republicans claim that Democrats were bogging Americans down in high gas prices and inflation. Those things still exist, but for the last 60-plus days, they've been declining and moving pretty clearly in the right direction. Like even the attacks lobbed at Biden from the left, a lot of them justified, I should add, but, you know, that he's unwilling to criticize Republicans. That's been a big one, even for me. You know, it's frustrating to see someone give so much deference to a party that is seeking to undermine democracy in real time. But now he's holding rallies.

He's calling them out by name. Even his digital team is going on the offense. And this is so dumb, but like they've co-opted the dark Brandon meme from the right. Couple all of that with the inexplicable fact that now, months away from midterms, is when Republicans have decided to pull maybe the most politically unpopular stunt in modern American history with all of these abortion bans. And suddenly we're in an environment where Democrats have a chance to not only hang on to their majorities, but actually expand them. Like, think about it this way. New York's 19th congressional district.

There was a special election this past week. It was a Biden plus 1.5 district. That means Biden won it by a point in a half. In a midterm cycle with Democrats in power, where the opposition party usually sees a huge swing in their favor, a seat like New York's 19th congressional district is an easy pick up for the right. But not only did Republicans lose,

the Democrat, Pat Ryan, actually gained on Biden's 2020 margin. In fact, this is the fourth House special election in a row where the Democrat has outperformed Biden. And looking ahead to November, there are 222 seats in the House where Biden performed better than he did in New York's 19th. That means that if every congressional district replicates the same turnout performance we just saw,

Democrats are on track to exceed the 218 seats they need to hold the House. And look, that's not to say that this thing's in the bag. It's not to say that we're getting complacent. It's not to say that something can't happen tomorrow and shift the entire race, because, you know, we're all old enough to remember the difference between January 2020 versus,

is March 2020, but it is to say that we've got a fighting chance, that we have the chance to win. And if we can, that means codifying row, voting rights protections, banning gerrymandering, making Election Day of Federal Holiday, D.C. statehood, banning assault weapons, and taking even stronger action on climate. So we're close. We just have to stay engaged, hammer away at the facts, let everyone know exactly what Republicans stand for, and keep touting the ways the Democrats are delivering. Next up is my interview with the Secretary of Education. Okay, today we have the Secretary of Education, Dr. Miguel Cardona.

Thank you so much for coming on. To be with you, Brian. Exciting, obviously, to have you on here this week, the week that student loan debt was finally forgiven. This has been a long time priority for a lot of people. We have a lot to talk about with regard to what was actually done. But first, I got to get your take on the recent string of viral tweets that went out from the White House Twitter account.

Now, Republicans had lined up to attack student loan debt forgiveness from Marjorie Taylor Green to Matt Gates. And of course, those same people personally had PPP loans issued and ultimately forgiven. So what's your response to those Republicans who decided to attack the same thing that they themselves benefited from? You know, look, I love the approach. Call out hypocrisy when you see it. facts. Like, look, this administration is about substance, not sensationalism, but please don't

throw stones when you're getting more benefit from complaining about, please. Like, I love it. And I love the fact that it resonated with people. People are done with this nonsense. Let's get the American people facts. Let's help American people and call out hypocrisy when we see it. I love it. So let's get into the details of this plan here. What does the student loan forgiveness plan cover. Can you give a quick rundown of what the White House just did? Definitely. Look, I think I want to contextualize this too. This is one strategy, a significant strategy in a game plan of really making higher education more affordable, getting a better return on investment, and making sure we're opening doors for more people across the country to access higher education. So several parts to

it. The pandemic, it wreaked havoc on the whole country. Some got impacted more than others, right? And the goal here is to make sure that post-pandemic, people are not worse off than they were before the pandemic. So the Heroes Act Authority allowed us to make targeted relief to those middle class and those who are struggling in low-income homes to, or low-income income, to get some relief so they can get back on their fee. Again, the goal is not to be worse off than before the pandemic. So people making under $125,000 can get $10,000 in loan relief. If you were a recipient of Pell, which means that when you were applying for financial aid, you were in a very limited income household or you struggle to make ends meet financially, if you qualify for Pell, you're

eligible for $20,000 in loan relief for a single person making under $125,000. Now, If you're part of a family, a home where there's more than one income, less than $250,000 you would qualify for this. We're excited about that. We're also excited about something that's not as flashy. Income-driven repayment is a game changer for the long haul. It's basically cutting in half loan payments because previously people had to pay 10% of their income on student loans.

Now we went down to 5%. And then we're capping it at 20 years of payment. And if you owe $12,000 or less, we're capping it at 10 years of payment. No more ball and chain for the rest of your life. That's going to open doors. For first-gen people, for people that want to go back to school, it's going to have an ongoing effect, positive effect for this country. Now, how many people is this plan going to affect?

Yeah. We're estimating 43 million people can benefit from this. And the kickers, 20 million people, about 40% of that. 20 million people, when they heard the president, realized that, their entire loan debt is going to be relieved, it's going to be canceled. Imagine 20 million people now thinking, I no longer have this debt and I can, you know,

buy a home or move on and help my children go to college. I talked to a teacher the day before yesterday who was talking about the loan forgiveness she got with the public service loan forgiveness, which is something that I really want to talk about a little bit too. This teacher said, now that $16,000 of loan was forgiven for me, me, I can help my daughter who was thinking about going to college. Let's not get into the

conversation about teacher salary, but she's going to be able to help her daughter go to college now. So it's a win, man. It's a win. And when will this all go into effect? Because I know a lot of people are seeing this and they're like, you know, checking their, checking their loans on their phone and everything. So when will we start to see some action here? You know, that's a great question. So there's some, you know, legal things that are going to require us to post things. And soon, right? Like, I think late September, we're going to be putting out the attestation. There's a period that we have to clear to put up attestations. We're going to get attestations. It's going to be simple of salary attestations, like what folks, who qualifies. So once we get

that information, we're going to process it. So I want folks who are listening just to, you know, breathe, be happy, know that we're going to be grinding between now and December 31st to get this stuff done. But go visit student aid. dotgov slash debt relief. Studenta.gov slash debt relief, register there for an automated email so we can reach out to you with updates. We want to move on this. We recognize that we have a lot of work to do between now and when the loan repayment restarts. And that's a game plan. We're going to do that. We're going to be very open and direct with the American people about the steps that we're taking. And we're excited. We're excited. We know a lot of people have questions. But

Studentate.gov slash debt relief is what I advise people to check into now. And we'll put that link in the show notes of the podcast and right here on the screen for the video version. You know, I know that student loan debt is held disproportionately by people of color, both as a percentage of the population and the amount of actual debt actually held. What are the implications here as far as racial justice is concerned? Yeah. You know, that's why I'm saying, you know, this strategy here is part of a bigger plan. that the president has to make higher education more accessible to more Americans,

to address inequities that existed before the pandemic, right? They were made worse during the pandemic. And we know this $20,000 forgiveness eligibility for those who are Pell recipients, we know black borrowers are twice as likely to be Pell recipients, right? So that's addressing some of the inequities in higher education alone and debt that we have.

We know that one in four black black borrowers is going to have their loans totally wiped out. That's significant. And the same is true for Hispanic and Asians, Asian Americans too. There's a benefit, an increased benefit for those in those communities too. So this is not only an effort to recover from the pandemic, but it's also addressing the inequities that were made worse in this country by the pandemic. Now, I want to take some time here to debunk some right-wing talking points that Republicans are desperately trying to make stick.

So could you first address this idea that student loan debt forgiveness is a giveaway to the richest students? Yeah. You know, it's a giveaway? The 2017 tax bill, $2 trillion, right? And so we did the math, right? 85% of the money there went to people making over $75,000. That was in 2017. team. You know, the bailouts for the wealthy. This one here, 90% of the money going into this

is going to go to people making less than $75,000. All right. So we're targeting. It's targeted loan relief. People making $75,000 or less are going to get 90% of this. All right. So it's really targeted to address the fact that the middle class right now is taking the brunt of the pandemic and folks that with low income are taking the brunt of it. So those are facts. You can't argue with that. Just like you can't argue with what happened in 2017, two trillion dollars that never was made up. You can't argue with the facts. What about this idea that it'll add to inflation? We know that the president with the Inflation Reduction Act is expected to reduce the deficit by $300 billion. Right. So there's work being done by this president to reduce

deficit, I think we're on track this year to reduce it by over a trillion. So the president is working on both ends to make sure we're reducing the deficit, but also the policies are pretty much inflation neutral. So loans are going to start up again in January. And I think, you know, what we're factoring in is, as people are making their loan payments again, it's going to lower whatever inflation increase. It's going to offset that. So, you know, independent economists are also saying that there's pretty much a wash with regard to the loan forgiveness and the increase that folks are going to have to pay when the loans do resume in January. And by the way, these loan repayments have been paused for basically the better part of two years.

So if there hasn't been any inflationary pressures from this specific instance anyway, it's not like all of a sudden inflation isn't going to skyrocket because they're continuing to not pay off these loans. Finally, can you speak on the talking point that it's unfair to those who've already paid off their loans. Look, again, let's remember why we're doing this. The Heroes Act gives us authority to ensure borrowers are not worse off after the pandemic than they were before. No different than the work to make sure our businesses stay afloat with the PPP, right?

We're going to make sure that we're keeping our businesses up and open during the height of the pandemic when they weren't getting customers. Now we're helping Americans. We're reinvesting in Americans who fell on hard time. So, you know, I don't have loans either. I'm happy for my neighbor who's now not going to suffer default, which would hurt my local economy, right? So I'm happy that I'm in a position where my loans were paid off and that somebody who's

struggling, especially because of the pandemic, can now get back on their feet and buy a home and contribute to my local economy, right? And to the people that say, look, I didn't go to college because of the cost. Well, with income-driven repayment now, we're making the pathway easier. like you can now go to college. And also, if you don't have college loans now, or if you didn't go to college, you might know someone in your family who's struggling with loan debt. You know, you might be paying off the loan of your child who's struggling with loan debt. And we're going to make it easier for you. So this helps everyone, especially when we're reducing the number of people

that are going to go into default. Republicans are attacking this thing because, well, because that's what partisans do. But can you talk about what student loan debt forgiveness will mean for their Republican constituents and red states more broadly? Let me make this analogous to what I know has happened over the last year with the American Rescue Plan dollars, right? Under $30 billion went to 50 million students across the country. We didn't say blue states are going to get this much and less states are going to get this much. We want those impacted by the pandemic to get help.

This is not partisan. We want to support our schools, get our schools open, help students catch up, right? give them the social emotional support that they need now, given the pandemic. Half of Congress voted for it. Not one Republican. Yet, all states are benefiting from the funds. Similar here, you know, loan, 43 million Americans are going to benefit from loan relief here, all right? 20 million are going to get it canceled altogether.

Republicans and Democrats, it's going to help them reinvest in their communities, open up small businesses, buy a home. It helps everyone. And I think it is hypocritical. It is hypocritical, just like it was hypocritical with some of the votes on the infrastructure plan. You know, you vote no, but now you're touting, you're getting a new bridge. Come on. And people see through this, we're helping the American people. We're reinvesting in Americans. We're getting folks to look at higher education as an option again with our income-driven repayment plan. Public service loan forgiveness. If you're a public servant and you serve for 10 years and you paid your loan for 10 years, you deserve loan forgiveness because that's what Congress passed in 2007.

That system was broken when we came into town. All right. 98% of the people were denied. It's fixed. 10 billion people have gotten loan for 10 billion dollars has been provided in loan forgiveness on this law that was sitting in the books that someone chose not to implement it the way was intended to be implemented. Borrower defense, we're working on that, too, to make sure we're going after those places that have taken advantage of first-gen college students. We're pushing to double Pell grants to make sure that more students have options. And another thing, too, that I want to really throw out there, we're increasing accountability in higher education. All right? I don't want to be in the same position five years from now. I want to make sure that this loan forgiveness is

happening, but we're fixing the root of the problem. And at the Department of Education, we are doing that. We know the system is broken. We know that college costs have gotten out of control. We're going to start putting pressure on states to make sure that they're doing their fair share, to pay higher education so the cross go down. We're going to push colleges to prove their return on investment because right now we can't afford to have students go to college end up in so much debt and then be in a position where they can't buy a home. We're working on reversing that. The system is broken, but we're on it. The president is about substance, not sensationalism, getting things done. let's finish off with this what has the response been like has there been any moments with

people in particular that have stuck with you um you know as this plan was announced definitely i uh i had a conversation with someone yesterday uh first generation college student um him and his brother uh attended college and they were kind of on their own in terms of figuring it out right um he didn't even know if he was a pell recipient he was like it was all a blur for me i i don't you know my brother and I went to college and we kind of supported one another, but it was tough because we didn't have anyone to fall back on to give us the guidance or apply for this or buy for that. Well, he was telling me with tears in his eyes almost, we both qualified for $20,000 in long forgiveness. This is going to change my life. This is going to change my life. And now he's

thinking about, well, now I can do things that I couldn't have done just yesterday. That's what this plan is about. Let's not forget. Look, we could talk at the $50,000. of you all day, we're changing the lives of people who are impacted by the pandemic and giving them another chance. And that's what's happening. We got construction workers who would have been paying $150 a month with the payment plan that they had now signing up for the income-driven repayment and paying maybe $40 a month. That's making a change in their lives and making college more accessible, opening the doors to higher education and more people to address some of these inequities that our country has, has had for decades. So it means most to me when I hear

stories of families whose lives are going to be changed based on what the president did. He's delivering. He promised $10,000. We ended up with 20 for those who qualify for Pell. He gets it. He's focused more on education than any president. I've been in education for over 23, 24 years. This is the most of one year than any other president combined over the last 20 years. So I'm honored and humble to be serving a secretary of education at this time when the president and vice president value education the way they've shown. Well, that's, that's perfectly put. And I do want to, I do want to, you know, really stress that point that even for those people out there who, who don't agree with, you know, with this individual decision because they themselves might

have paid off their loans. I mean, everybody does benefit from this. You know, we, if you bring all of these people into the economy, that that is, that's money that's going to go toward travel, towards small businesses, toward restaurants, that money stays in the community. It goes to your friends and families and loved ones that isn't going to loan sharks and predatory businesses. I mean, this really does benefit everyone. They say a rising tide lifts all boats.

This is just the epitome of that. So thank you for your work. I'm so glad to have you here on this week of all weeks. Secretary Cardona, I appreciate you taking the time. Great to be with you. Thank you. Now we've got the Democratic nominee for Arizona's Secretary of State, Adrienne Fontes. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me, Brian.

So just to give some indication to people listening as to who you're running against, could you talk a bit about who Mark Fincham is, your Republican opponent for Arizona's Secretary of State? Yeah, I think the important things to know about Arizona is, first the context is we are a state that has used mail-in balloting for a very, very long time and well over. 85, 90% of our folks vote by mail. He wants to kill ballot by mail. He wants to make everybody vote just at their polling place on election day only instead of having vote centers where you can vote everywhere in the state. He wants to make sure that we do hand counting the first time around eliminating all of the technology that we use that's much more efficient and much more accurate

than hand counting. He literally has no idea how to run elections. But it goes further than that. He is an oathkeeper. He is a white nationalist. He is a January 6th attendee at the riot, the insurrection in Washington, D.C. And he's an all-around not so great guy. And so, you know, there's a lot of specific stuff and there's a lot of big stuff, but we've got to make sure to beat him in November. Yeah, I mean, can you talk for a moment about what it means more broadly that we have a member of a far right extremist group running for a, not just, any position because I think there's no doubt now about the extent to which this specific position, the Secretary of State position, is so important. Well, it couldn't be more stark of a difference

between he and I, particularly here in Arizona. Let's not forget. I was the Maricopa County recorder who built the system that beat the cyber ninjas. He was in the Arizona legislature that brought the cyber ninjas and the stop the steel movement onto the scene. I mean, this is really the A versus B, if ever there was one. And it's very problematic because his entire motive is based in a lie. And everything that he wants to do is to subvert American democracy through sort of just the destruction of our election systems, which worked very nicely, by the way. And so you couldn't find a bigger difference between two candidates.

And the Arizona Secretary of State's office is really ground zero for the battle between authoritarianism and democracy advocates who support this republic. This is the race nationally that really, I think, exemplifies the battle that this whole country is facing right now. So now what's your platform? Why are you running this race? Well, like I said, I was the Maricopa County recorder who built the system that beat the cybernigms. I am a Sierra certified election administrator. That's a certification that comes out of Auburn University in the election center. I'm an attorney. I'm a Marine Corps veteran. I'm a dad. And I've actually run elections.

I've actually made sure that folks can vote. And I was even the chief deputy recorder in Pima County down in the Tucson area as well. So I know what Arizona's election systems need from a chief election officer in the Secretary of State's office. On the other hand, we've got someone who, you know, just wants to make chaos. He's like the joker. He just wants to watch it burn down. And nobody really knows what the rationale or the reasoning is.

because there isn't anything based in reality that he's advocating for. So I'm running for Secretary of State to protect the Republic, to protect our democracy, and to make sure that my three daughters have a future that they can rely on. What would Arizona's 2024 election look like if Fincham were to win this election? Well, if he were to win this election, he's already talked about not certifying an election that Donald Trump did not win. And that's just kind of it, right? There's nothing more to it.

It is one of his proposals was that the Arizona legislature would determine whether or not the election was fair. In other words, in Arizona, if he's the Secretary of State, your vote won't matter. It'll be somebody else that decides the outcome of the elections, not yours. That's not how this country is supposed to work. So for 2024 and Arizona's 11 electoral college votes, we are a swing state. We are a state that could really go either way. we've got to have integrity in our systems. And if somebody is that willing to talk out loud about putting his thumb on the scales, he's unfit for this office. And we've got to keep him out of it.

As it stands, how could a Republican weaponize the Secretary of State's office in Arizona? Well, there's a whole host of things that can be done behind the scenes. For example, the elections procedures manual is provocated out of the Secretary of State's office. That's the rulebook where the 15 counties run their elections from. The Secretary of State has the bully pulpit as the chief election officer and could cause chaos and doubt the way he has done from the state legislature, but it would even be more pronounced because this is the one person who actually makes sure that all of our elections go well. The dangers are multi-fold insofar as influencing legislation and seeing to it that certain people, certain systems don't get certified.

And if the secretary doesn't certify our election systems, the way he's indicated that he might not, we could end up with no election systems. And then what happens? Because the secretary actually does what's called logic and accuracy tests on the actual equipment. And so if he becomes Secretary of State and he just decides willy-nilly not to certify perfectly good systems, we won't have elections in Arizona. And then what? It's absolute chaos that he presents and we have to stop him.

So are there any guardrails to prevent Republicans from refusing to certify an election just because, you know, just because he doesn't personally like the outcome? Yeah, we're the guardrails. The voters are the guardrails. You know, we've discovered over the last couple of years the fragility of democracy itself and the capacity that a few people in the right positions of power, the possibility that they have, if they all decide together to act poorly, we could have serious issues. The guardrail is the election. in November to make sure that Republicans and Democrats and independents elect a Secretary of State here in Arizona who not only has faith in the Americans who run elections, but believes in American democracy in the first place. We cannot depend on the courts. We cannot depend on the legislature. We can only depend on the American public.

That's where we're at, unfortunately, and that's why we got to turn out every single voter of every political stripe for reasonableness and for consistency and predictability in our elections. systems. Yeah, exactly. I think that's perfectly put. Adrian, are you, are you heartened by the attention that that your race and Secretary of State races more broadly are getting, or do you feel like they're still not getting their due attention, given, you know, given the threats that we're facing right now? Well, look, I'm kind of a, I'm kind of an old-fashioned guy. I'd rather that folks just kind of move along when it comes to these races. But unfortunately, the the fragility of our democracy is exposed through these kinds of races. And the fact that it is so critical that we

keep people like Mark Fincham out of these offices brings an appropriate attention to it. It's something that folks have to pay attention to, and particularly here in Arizona. I mean, also Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, Georgia, the governor's race in Pennsylvania, nationwide, there's a whole bunch of important races. But this is the one symbolic race, I think, that stands above them all because of who Mark Finchum is, what he represents, who I am and what I represent in the stark difference there. So the attention is welcome because it's a critical moment. I just wish it wasn't the critical moment that it is. So it's sort of a mixed bag when it comes to whether or not we ought to have the attention that we have. Okay. So what would your message to pro-democracy

Republicans and independents out there who may never have cast a ballot for Democrats be? Well, look, as far as my race is concerned, it's very easy. In 2020, I administered the election that brought about my own electoral loss. And I called the balls and strikes just like they should have. And when I wasn't successful, I passed the torch to the next guy. This is the kind of integrity and honor that I represent in this office. And I will tell you this, there are several Democrats running for these offices around the country who I believe would do the exact same thing. because our democracy in this country is more important than our personal political ambitions. Our democracy and preserving the republic that is served by that democracy is far better served by

people who would be good losers and good winners and make sure that we get the elections that we deserve. That's what's critical. So folks of all political stripes can believe, particularly in this candidate, that you've got someone who's just going to do the job regardless of what the political outcome is at the end. Let's finish off with this. have any stories from the campaign trail that were especially memorable for you or that kind of highlight like why this race is so important well i will say i was in cayenta up on the navajo nation on the first day of early voting 27 days before election day here in arizona and i talked to a woman who lost her son he was a marine corps veteran like me but she lost him to PTSD and some of the

surrounding circumstances because they didn't have the services uh in her community that she she needed. The elections have consequences that go far beyond potholes and water reservoirs and other sorts of things. Elections can have personal consequences for families, just like yours and everybody else's. We need to pay more attention to the folks that we're putting into office, not just because of the flashing the pan logos, but because it matters to families across the country and particularly families who've sacrificed unnecessarily to make sure that we have freedoms that we have. These are critical. And for me, it's about family. And the American family needs to support itself with reasonable politicians, reasonable candidates who are just going to get the

job done. Adrian, how can we help your campaign? Well, we are in the battle for our democracy. And folks say that this is the most important election of our lifetimes. Unfortunately, this could be the last election of our lifetimes given the South Carolina case that's going before the Supreme Court soon. And so supporting candidates like myself and like some of the others that I mentioned is critical. You can go to electfontes.com. That's electfontes.com and contribute financially. You can also sign up to volunteer. We've got phone banks, text banks, postcards, help. If you're in Arizona, door knocking is always a good way to go. And we're cooperating with a lot of folks across the United States of America. In fact, one of my volunteer coordinators is in Pennsylvania.

She just moved out of state, but she's sticking with us. Any, any, any little. little bit helps, but the financial contributions really will help us get the message out and will help us support those volunteers out in the field. Yeah, and I would just reiterate for anyone watching or listening, you know, this do not sleep on this race. These secretary of state races may not get the attention that the gubernatorial races, the Senate races, or even the House races are getting, but, but, you know, this is, this is all the marbles, basically.

So, Adrian, good luck on the campaign trail. We'll do anything we can to help on our end. I'll also put that link to your website in the post description here. and thanks so much for taking the time. Appreciate it, Brian, and I'm glad to be the first one on this fancy new set of yours. It's really cool.

I like it. Thanks. Thanks again to Adrian. One quick note, if you're just tuning in for the first time, please hit the subscribe button and also feel free to take a quick second to throw me a rating and a review.

Okay, that's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, interviews captured and edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nicholas Nicotera, and recorded in Los Angeles, California.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app. Feel free to leave a five-star rating and a review, and check out Brian Tyler Cohen.com for links to all of my other channels.