No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Republicans issue dangerous response to Trump's disqualification from the ballot

Episode Date: December 24, 2023

Republicans try to foment violence in light of the bombshell Colorado Supreme Court decision keeping Trump off the ballot-- and it's working. Brian interviews Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg about the Republicans’ sham impeachment effort against Joe Biden and some huge wins that this administration has racked up recently in the climate and transportation space. And Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson joins to discuss the stunning new reporting about a recording of Donald Trump and Ronna McDaniel pressuring local officials in Michigan not to certify the 2020 election and whether there’s any new legal liability for them.Become an election worker in Michigan: michigan.gov/democracymvpShop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we're going to talk about Republicans trying to foment violence in light of the bombshell Colorado Supreme Court decision keeping Trump off the ballot and the extent to which it's actually working. And I interview Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg about the Republican sham impeachment effort against Joe Biden and some huge wins that this administration has racked up recently in the climate and transportation space. And finally, I'm joined by the Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson about the stunning new report about a recording of Donald Trump and Ronna McDaniel pressuring local

officials not to certify the 2020 election in Michigan and whether there's any new legal liability for them. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. Obviously, the big news this week was the decision by the Colorado Supreme Court to disqualify Trump from the ballot, given that he violated the plain text of the Constitution and engaged in an insurrection. And by the way, none of this is surprising. The Constitution has been around for a minute. It's not like Democrats sprung this 150-year-old amendment on Donald Trump out of nowhere. But still, that hasn't stopped Republicans from clutching their pearls and pretending that a court interpreting the plain text of the Constitution was somehow them

engaging in election interference on behalf of the Democrats, because apparently the courts are only allowed to enforce the laws so long as they don't disadvantage any Republicans. But part of that feigned outrage was a new push led by Fox News to try and foment violence as the result of this decision. Here's Laura Ingram and Jesse Waters. Now at this point, given what we're seeing in the courts, at the DOJ, and even in state AG offices, and given Democrats, Trump is Hitler rhetoric, is it not logical, at least to consider, maybe even to assume that some on the left are hoping to spark some type of civil unrest here, which would be followed, of course, by a mass crackdown on civil liberties, or the declaration of maybe a nationwide emergency, all as a way,

a protectual way, to usher in, I don't know, nationwide mail-in voting. It feels like the left wants violence because that's where this is going. We're being baited so their actions are justified. That's how it feels. The more the left overplays their hand, the scarier this gets. Okay, so let's get this straight. By quite literally interpreting the plain text of the Constitution, the GOPs decided that Democrats are trying to bait Republicans into reacting violently so that

In turn, that would give Democratic leaders a rationale to crack down on them. Like, I'm sorry, but what? These people are so desperate for violence that they are creating excuses for themselves in advance. Like, I don't know, here's an idea. Maybe be a fucking adult and don't engage in violence because a court found that a guy who engaged in insurrection was barred from being on the ballot because there's quite literally a provision barring people from the ballot who've engaged in insurrection. It's pretty simple. Of course, be an adult is going to fall on deaf ears here because we are already seeing exactly the violence of these.

Fox hosts are giving themselves cover for. According to Advanced Democracy, which is a non-profit, nonpartisan organization that conducts public interest research, there has been significant violent rhetoric against the Colorado Supreme Court justices and Democrats, most of which was in direct response to Trump's post about the ruling untruth social. They found that some social media users posted justice as email addresses, their phone numbers, and their office building addresses online. One user wrote, what do you call seven justices from the Colorado Supreme Court at the

bottom of the ocean, the answer, a good start. And that one is tame relative to the other post that showed up, which I won't repeat, but are just as brazen and dangerous as chilling as you can imagine. But let's be clear here. The pattern of violence on the right isn't a bug. It's a feature. This is a deliberate strategy employed by Republicans who know that the law isn't on their side and who know that the majority of the country isn't on their side. And so they figure that they're only shot at getting what they want is by using violence to take it. Like we saw that play out with these far-right militias in the states and the lead-up to the 2020 election

that were intended to intimidate voters and election officials. And of course, to a much larger degree, we saw it play out on January 6th, where Trump incited his supporters to descend upon the Capitol, where they threatened to kill Democrats and hang Mike Pence

if those people didn't capitulate to their demands. More recently, judges have endured a barrage of threats for ruling against Trump in his various prosecutions across the country. Judge Wallace, who is the lower court judge,

who initially found the Trump engaged in insurrection, but ruled that he could stay on the ballot, which of course was later reversed by the Colorado Supreme Court, wrote as part of a protective order, quote, I 100% understand everybody's concerns for the parties, the lawyers, and frankly, myself and my staff based on what we've seen in other cases. So to suggest that the violence isn't having an impact, when even judges are acknowledging it from the bench is ignoring the obvious reality. And Trump and his supporters and his mouthpieces in the media

know that, which is why they foment it whenever they can. But here's the thing. That is precisely why it is so important to shut this down quickly and decisively. Did it take way too long in these January 6th cases? Absolutely. But at the same time, we now have over 1,000 people who've been charged. And guess what? When Trump tried to foment another violent mob in New York after his indictment there, no one showed up because even the loyalists understand that their fealty to Trump probably isn't worth losing their freedom over.

And granted, while he doesn't care if they rot in prison, they probably do. So make an example out of these guys who both incite people to violence and who commit the violence themselves. Because if it doesn't happen now, then we're only assured to see more violence in the future. Next up are my interviews with Pete Buttigieg and Jocelyn Benson. Now we've got the Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg. Thanks for coming back on.

Thanks for having me back. So we've actually got a ton of transportation news and climate news. But first, let's touch on the impeachment inquiry that was just approved by House Republicans. How worried were you when you found out that Joe Biden committed the high crime of helping his son pay for a truck as a private citizen? You know, it really is, it just defies logic. They've been at this for more than a year.

They can't even decide what the supposed charges are. It's clearly a fishing expedition, but the thing that's really worrisome is there's a real opportunity cost to this. This is the same United States Congress that we urgently need to do things like reauthorize our FAA bill that's helping us keep air traffic controllers on the job. We need them to pass a railway safety act that is going to make sure that something like what happened in East Palestine, Ohio, never happened again. We need them for a budget, just the absolute basics. And the fact that they have time for this, and they don't

have time for all of that, calls into question what the priorities are for House Republicans. They're making the argument themselves that the point of this Republican House conference majority is the dysfunction in and of itself. But clearly, the whole point of this effort here is to offer up the optics of corruption as far as Joe Biden is concerned. What's your message to Republicans out there, especially those who consume right-wing media, about the disinformation that they're being fed by these folks who are desperate to hurt Biden politically? The bottom line is to look at the fact that this has not produced anything real. They are openly admitting that they are launching an investigation for the purpose of finding something that would justify an investigation,

which they can't. And in the meantime, they are wasting time and money that is very much needed for Congress to deal with things that actually have to get done. And if you are a conservative, if you are a religious Fox News viewer, you are going to be hurt just as much as any Democrat or independent sitting at home watching this play out.

You too will suffer if Congress can't even pass a budget or give us the resources to train the air traffic controllers who keep the system running or do any of the other things that we need Congress to do at a moment when there is enormous conflict and instability and pain in the Middle East, at a moment when there is democracy on the line in Ukraine, and at a moment when right here at home, we need to be investing more or not less in keeping this country running. It hurts all of us when they waste time and money on these kinds of political partisan adventures. To your exact point, I believe it was Troy Nells who came out when he was asked what the point of this whole thing was. He said

Donald Trump. And it kind of is evocative too of how in 2015, I believe, it was Kevin McCarthy who came on Fox News and admitted that the point of the Benghazi Select Committee was to hurt Hillary Clinton. So this is a well-trod path for Republicans. They saw at work in 2016 and they obviously saw the virtues of it and are trying the same thing now. Marjorie Taylor Green had suggested this past weekend that Lindsay Graham should be primaried because he dared concede that there was no evidence to impeach Joe Biden. What's your response to Green's comment? Well, look, there's a certain segment of the extremist wing of the GOP where even telling the truth is a crime, where they'll come out against you for telling basic truths. But again, this keeps coming back for me to the question

of what does any of this mean to somebody's daily life at home watching this stuff play out? And there's just no possible explanation for how any of this noise is going to make anybody sitting at home better off, especially when we have all the issues and problems that we do need to pay attention to and act on that we are as an administration. I mean, for example, right now, Congress could stop, congressional Republicans could stop blocking a measure that would bring $35 a month insulin to every American. We've already done it for seniors. They're stopping us from doing it for all Americans. Congress could change that right now. That's just one example.

They could renew a child tax credit and cut child poverty in half. We know that works because we did it, but then congressional Republicans pushed to allow that to expire. These are the kinds of things that would directly affect millions of Americans in concrete, measurable ways. And instead, they're indulging in this kind of nonsense

at the behest of extreme members, who I think most of the people elected in the House and Senate in a private, quiet, honest moment would tell you, they know deep down, this is nonsense. Right, you know, I know the inclination here is to mock Republicans who are advancing this whole sham effort, but the reality is that in the same way they pretended, to my earlier point,

that Hillary's emails was the biggest national security threat in US history, they're trying to do the same thing here. So what should Democrats do to rebut what will obviously be a major disinformation campaign moving forward? Well, in addition to the point to the fact that so many of what they say, or claim or insinuate is quickly and easily debunked,

which is exactly why, for example, this investigation hasn't yielded any actual true, actionable facts. It's getting back to the basics. I think what we need to do is have a split screen that shows the difference between what they're working on and what we're working on. We're fixing roads.

They're looking for some excuse for an impeachment inquiry. We're building bridges. They're banning books. It's very clear. the difference in priorities. And we're going to keep our focus on what makes people better off. Perfectly put. All right. So Republican dysfunction aside, let's talk about some major tangible wins in your department. So first off, can you speak on the first federally funded EV charging stations that are finally going into service? Yeah, we're really excited about this. You know, this has been more

than a year in the making. And it's all about making sure that there are chargers everywhere you need them. There's a lot of electric car charges around the country that have been already put up by private companies and private industry, but not enough. The president's vision is we've got to have half a million of these charges around the country by the end of the year. And that's not, by the end of the decade, sorry. And that's not going to happen without us making sure that they exist even in places where they're not yet profitable. And a good example is on a 50-mile stretch road, you've got to make sure there's going to be at least one charger there, the same way that if you get in a car, a gas car, on a road trip, you know there's going to be gas stations between

where you started and where you need to get to. So the very first of these new chargers federally supported with dollars from the infrastructure package was installed in Ohio, closely followed by one in New York. There are hundreds and eventually thousands and thousands and thousands more to come. And this is going to make a huge difference for convenience and have a positive climate impact because it's going to encourage more people to feel comfortable making that choice to go electric. And maybe the best thing of all, really stimulating a U.S. industry that's going to create a lot of jobs making and installing these chargers.

So this time next year, how many charging stations can we expect to see? You know, first we'll see hundreds more, then it'll go into the thousands, and we're going to need that. You know, we've seen tens of thousands of public chargers added already since President Biden took office, publicly available charges.

We need more where that came from. And again, it's all working toward that goal of half a million by the end of the decade. Now, there's another EV milestone regarding the number of electric vehicles sold in the United States. Can you speak on that? That's right. Yeah, more than a million sold, which is a new record, and it shows that every year there is more demand than the year before. The share of vehicles sold that are electric has tripled. There are going to be some ups and downs as there are in every market, but the direction has been clear and unmistakable. Part of what we're focused on is making sure that they're more affordable. That's why the Inflation Reduction Act includes those tax credits for new and used EVs. If you qualify, it's not for the most expensive cars or for the wealthiest Americans. for many vehicles and for most families,

you can qualify to get a big savings on the upfront price. And then after that, you're saving on gas or diesel because it's cheaper to run a car on electric than it is on gas and diesel. So we're really excited about that. And again, the other thing that's really big here is jobs. I come from the industrial Midwest. I know how helpful it can be to have auto manufacturing

in your region. And I know how terrible it can be if your region loses out. And that's what happened to my hometown, South Bend when Studebaker closed. We have got to make sure that the next generation of cars, which will largely be electric, are made in the U.S. Under President Trump, frankly, they allowed China to get the advantage on EVs. We're taking that advantage back to America from American workers and American consumers, doubling down on that work. And we're excited to see that continue

to develop, especially because I've seen the factories and the jobs that's going to create. Are there any projections on what the number of EVs sold in the U.S. next year would look like? Because I think it took like 15 years to get to a million. So when can we expect 2 million, for example? You know, the growth is going to be exponential. I don't have a projection for next year sales, but I think we are going to continue to see that growth. And the goal that we've set is to have it be about 50-50 by the end of this decade. Now, I should acknowledge, we don't expect, and frankly, wouldn't be ready for everybody to just

go electric overnight. If everybody wanted electric vehicle tomorrow, we don't have the grid for that yet. We're racing to build the grid to make sure the chargers are out there. So this is a process, but it is a swift process and one that will unfold a lot more quickly than the original development of the internal combustion engine 120 years ago. So another big win in the transportation sector is with high-speed rail, and that's happening in my state in California. What's happening on that front? Yeah, this is big. I think so many Americans, especially if you've ever traveled to a country that has high-speed rail, and then come back and thought, well, why can't we have this? I mean, why can't the United States of America have rail service that's at least as good as

what they can take for granted in, you know, not only Japan or Germany, but England or Spain or Morocco. We should be able to have this too. And we're getting this done now with the dollars in President Biden's infrastructure plan. We just announced two major rounds of funding, one, $3 billion headed to California high-speed rail, another $3 billion, headed to a line that's going to run between Las Vegas and Southern California. They have a very ambitious timeline. If they meet their timeline, the developers of that project will be done in time for the LA Olympics in 2028. And I think the sooner an American traveler experiences high-speed rail on American soil, the sooner people will say, we've got to do this nationwide, and there will be no

going back. So is there funding for more high-speed rail projects after this? Or, Is this going to be the test case for what kind of infrastructure funding could deliver and also the rationale to push for more in the future? We think these two projects are going to really be the ones that launch America into a high-speed rail era. But we're funding planning in Texas for a route that would go between Dallas and Houston. There's another proposal in the Pacific Northwest. There are many other places that could qualify for future rounds of funding. Now, to be clear, we're also investing a lot of funding in what you might call regular. speed rail, which is a great option if it serves your community and it's on time and reliable.

That's been a real problem, probably because the infrastructure has not been in good shape. So when you see us making improvements along the Northeast Corridor, some of the investments we're making to Union Station in Chicago or other locations around the country, I mean, everywhere from Montana to Alaska. We're also just making sure that in general, America has the level of passenger rail that we ought to and not the one we inherited. So let's finish off with this. There was also record-breaking airline news. Can you speak on what happened here? So we have just announced a record penalty against Southwest Airlines. This all has to do with the meltdown that took place about a year ago. Going into Christmas, there was enormous upheaval. There was a winter storm. Every airline got hit by it, but most of them recovered. Southwest melted down. Two million passengers were affected. 17,000 flights canceled, hundreds of thousands of people delayed. As a consequence, over the last year, we've been looking over their shoulder at their refund

and reimbursement process, making sure they take care of passengers and conducting an investigation into how they violated consumer protection and customer service rules. The bottom line is a $35 million cash penalty as part of a $140 million penalty package, the majority of which will go not in fine and fee dollars to the Treasury, but in dollars going back to passengers, $90 million in a full. fund that's being set up to provide vouchers and compensation for future delays, which I think will send a powerful signal, not just to Southwest, then they need to make sure this never happens again, but to the entire airline industry to take better care of your passengers.

Otherwise, we will hold you accountable. Do you have Christmas plans? Yeah, I do. We'll be one of those Americans who's both driving and flying. Looking forward to, I got drawn for the responsibility of driving the dog back to Michigan, So that'll be a nice long road trip for us and then spending a lot of time with family. How about you? Yeah, I'm heading out to New Jersey for a week for the Christmas holiday and then and then just laying low for as long as I can and trying to take advantage of hopefully nothing happening in politics. So we'll see what happens on that front.

Good. Well, it's been quite a year. So I think America has earned a restful holiday. Yeah, at least a few days, at least a few days. But, you know, famous last words. We'll see. Secretary Pete, thanks so much for taking the time. You too. Thanks very much. Enjoy the holiday.

Now we've got the Michigan Secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson. Thanks for joining. Thanks for having me. Great to be here. So we have some bombshell news regarding Trump's recorded phone call to some Wayne County canvassers. But before we get to that, just one general question here. In light of the Colorado decision, the Colorado Supreme Court decision, keeping Trump off the ballot, has your office made any decisions one way or the other the other in terms of whether or not to put Trump on the ballot? No, nothing's changed for us.

I mean, we, frankly, I wasn't surprised at all that the California process, I'm sorry, the Colorado process played out the way that it did. It doesn't change our view of who should decide that for Michigan, which is the Supreme Court and ultimately the U.S. Supreme Court. And I think that's still the path that we're on. It's still certainly the path that the nation is on and we'll see ultimately when the U.S. Supreme Court makes a decision. We would love to see that sooner rather than later because everyone needs clarity heading into the primary season, voters, election officials, the Republican Party. And so we'll see how it plays out. But I think it's all important for us to remember this is one state court's decision. And we'll see what

ultimately holds for the entire country. Now, on to the major report from the Detroit news that Trump and RNC chair, Rona McDaniel, were caught on a recording pressuring Wayne County officials not to sign the certification of the 2020 presidential election. So, first of all, Rana had said during the call, if you can go home tonight, do not sign it, we will get you attorneys. So, and this was alluded to in the article, but if she offered something of value, in this case legal protection, in exchange for these canvassers not doing their jobs and helping the Trump campaign, does that not create legal exposure for McDaniel for potentially engaging in some type of bribery? Sure, potentially. I mean, look, there's

no shortage of investigations happening right now at the state and federal level into everything that unfolded in the post-election time of 2020. So I imagine this, or I should, would anticipate that this new revelation, and again, we weren't, we were well aware that, that President Trump at the time and his team were actively seeking to interfere with the Wayne County certification vote. The fact that there was a recording of that interference was, was, was unknown to me until the Detroit News broke the story. And I don't know of those investigating all of these activities who, who has what? And my job is to simply continue cooperating with all of the relevant investigations into looking at all of the potential crimes that were committed. And perhaps this latest

revelation will be added to those investigations. We certainly know they're all ongoing. What steps are being taken, if any, to prevent something like this from happening in the future in Michigan? Well, I think first, since 2020, we work to change the law. law to clarify the clearly ministerial role that our local canvassers and the statewide Board of Canvassers had. It has for every election. It's important to remember that these folks are appointed by the political parties and especially given the fact that Michigan's Republican Party is now chaired by a very open election denier who still has, not only has she not acknowledged the true results of the 2020 election in which Biden won Michigan, she hasn't even acknowledged the

fact that she lost the Secretary of State race in 2022 by 14 points. So I'm not holding my breath for revelation that somehow the party will start, you know, looking at truth and facts to rule the day and maybe appointing people to these canvassing boards that similarly will act in furtherance of conspiracy theories as opposed to the law. So in all of those fronts, we have strengthened our legal protections in Michigan so that we can seek court orders when the law is violated, but that doesn't necessarily impact or change or, you know, in many cases, deter people from trying to break the law to begin with. So we're preparing for that as well by making sure people know what the law is and continuing to be transparent in affirming our election results

and making sure we all know that there are people in these positions who may try again to gum up the certification process to further a political agenda. We're not going to let them win in the short or long term. And ultimately in 2020, it was people showing up to these certification hearings speaking the truth and cogently requesting and demanding that their votes count that ensured indeed the vote and the election rule the day. Well, you'd mentioned that the new steps would ensure that these roles are ministerial, but even with that being said, I mean, that's not going to stop certain Republicans who would want to overturn the election results from trying to exploit those positions anyway. So I guess what consequences would

there be, if somebody does try to exploit some of these ministerial positions to kind of go beyond what their job actually allows them to do? Well, there would be significant ones, certainly fines, perhaps even jail time, certainly if they are attorneys, as some of them are, they could lose their license. And so it would depend on the court and the severity of the violation, certainly, but there are, you know, greater deterrence in place now than there were in 2020. And what's also important about that is that we're also all much well more aware of the tactics that individuals could wrongly try to deploy here. And so we're able to speak out about them beforehand, which we did successfully in 22,

to both assure voters that their vote will still count. The law will prevail, even if we have to go to the court. And also to send a message to those who might be thinking of breaking the, the law, but not do it because you're not going to succeed and you ultimately, you know, find yourself facing accountability and justice as a result, and you won't be successful in your nefarious attempts to overturn election results that are real and accurate. Okay. What vulnerabilities still do exist in Michigan that need to be shored up to prevent them from being exploited? In 2020, democracy prevailed because of people, because of election

workers on both sides of the aisle, clerks, officials, state canvassing board officials, and and various other individuals who did their jobs with integrity, even state lawmakers who allegedly were called to the White House by Trump and pressured to do what they could to interfere with our elections. Everyone by and large refused to go along with that plan and stood guard. So our vulnerabilities are also our strength, which is people. The greatest vulnerabilities are if a bad actor gets into a position of authority and then is able to use that position to allow election subversion to happen. And of course, our greatest strength is the people who are in those positions and won't allow it.

So my job is to make sure people understand the consequences of breaking the law, deter those bad actors from election subversion, and shore up those vulnerabilities as a result by putting stronger people on both sides of the aisle in place where we can to protect the process and protect every vote. Just I guess for clarity here, what would have happened if these two Republican canvassers who were named in the article were able to rescind their votes for certification and kind of blocked up the whole process? You know, that night, as I've spoken publicly about a few times, that night of the Wayne County Board of Canvester's meeting was the lowest point for me in the post-election season because we knew how much damage could be done if these two members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers who were appointed by the local Republican Party did not do their duty and instead voted not to certify. And clearly the former president did as well because that was why he and the party. National Party chair were trying to pressure them to not certify. Had they not certified,

this would have given the Board of State canvassers cover to not certify the entire state's election, which could have given the state legislature in Michigan cover to vote an alternative slate of electors pursuant to the independent state legislature theory into Congress. And that would have given Congress cover on January 6th to select the Trump electors from Michigan. So it was a clear plan that all began that night. in Wayne County. And that's why the former president, I believe, called these individuals because they were the first domino to fall in this national scheme to block the will of the people. And, you know, of course, the Board of Camasters did certify. Ultimately, then, the Board of State

Camasers certified. And to its credit, the legislature in Michigan did not attempt to disenfranchise the voters of the state. Certainly, we still saw the tragedy unfold on January 6th before Congress at the U.S. Capitol. But that effort did not succeed. either and ultimately democracy prevailed. But it was because people at every step of the process did the right thing and stopped the dominoes from falling. You know, to that point, like, what was your reaction to knowing that Donald Trump, then the president of the United States, was so involved in the minutia of this election theft

scheme, literally on the phone with local officials and, like, steering their day-to-day actions? Yeah, it was really, I mean, look, it's the president of the United States, right? Every time he attacked me or my colleagues, you never lose. of that, even though you know the attacks are rooted in lies, even though you know you're doing a good job and doing everything right and by the book, the fact that the leader of the free world, the so-called leader of the free world is attacking you or interfering with your elections, is gut-wrenching. It's awful to have to deal with. And it's scary because there's, you know, the power differential is just so great. So that's why to me it was this moment. I remember

sitting down and coming home and thinking, I can't do anything. I'm out. I can't do anything to stop this particular process from playing out other than go to court and force the certification after the fact. But it was really tough to know we were up against such a powerful cohort of people and not know what, but only believe. So I told my team at the time, look, the facts and the truth are on our side. The law is on our side. And at the end of the day, in our democracy, the facts in the law are far more powerful than any individual, even the president of the United States. and that's really why we've seen democracy prevail and everything play out as it has sense. Now, for posterity, because, you know, we've seen these attacks in 2020, we're certain to see

them again in 2024. Are there any election integrity issues in Wayne County or Michigan more broadly? Well, certainly, again, it all gets back to people. Are we going to have enough people to staff our early voting sites? In Michigan, we have nine days of early voting for the first time in all three of our statewide elections. Are we going to see election subversion again or people attempting to work elections and perhaps try to, through an insider access, mess up the process or wrongly gain access to voting machines. So we have plans in place to protect against that, to either deter it or rapidly respond to any inside effort to harm the integrity of our elections. And I'm confident we'll succeed there. I think the bigger thing also that I'm concerned about

for everyone, including here in Michigan, is that this is the first election cycle where we will see three global superpowers, Russia, China, and Iran, who are fiercely anti-democracy, have a direct interest in who wins this presidential election for their own goals globally. Certainly Putin's role in Ukraine is the best and most clear example of that. And so with that greater incentive that they have to interfere with our elections, how will that play out and how will we need to ensure we protect the voters here in Michigan, here in Detroit, from those international attempts to either interfere with the process or confuse voters and deter them from participating at all, which we know is another tactic that they'll deploy.

For those people who you're looking for to staff, like election volunteers, is there any resources that my viewers who live in Michigan, for example, might be able to follow if they want to help staff the election systems in Michigan? Yes, you can become one of democracy's most valuable players, as we call them, the MVP's of democracy by signing up to be an election worker through our website. It's Michigan.gov slash democracy MVP. And from there, you can sign up, put in your information, and if you're eligible to serve as an election worker, you'll get a phone call and training, and then you'll be deployed to an election location on election day or during early voting

in one of our three statewide elections. And we do hope people sign up now because we've got a statewide election, our presidential primary on February 27th. And so preparing for that is front and center right now for all of us and people who sign up now can still be a part of that election. Yeah, and I would echo those sentiments. Highly recommend anybody watching or listening right now if you have the ability to kind of staff one of those positions, then definitely do that. Finally, let's end with this. This is kind of a wonky question here, but about nine Republican states have left Eric, and that's the interstate voter information compact, where states share information with each other to keep the voter rolls up to date. And those states left largely in response to a debunked gateway pundit article that fearmongered

that Eric is some George Soros project intended to help the Democrats. Now those states are in the position where they're paying more money for a fraction of the same information that they got when they were in Eric and their voter rolls are less accurate. So not exactly accomplishing the whole voter integrity thing that they were seeking to do. What's your response to that move by your Republican counterparts in these other states? Well, I don't think they were ever actually truly trying to seek or further election integrity by leaving Eric. I mean, it's nonsensical that anyone would leave really what was the most successful statewide, national, bipartisan collaborative to share voting data and registration data with each other so that we could collectively ensure the accuracy of our voter registration rules. Leaving that consortium only makes your state less secure.

And they were aware of those states were aware of that as they left. yet public, they chose instead to cave to public pressure, even though they all knew that it was rooted in lies and misinformation. And it was really disturbing to see, but also, again, when the truth is on your side, the truth prevails. And what I said at the time when I'll say now is any of those states, now that they've seen how truly less secure their systems are, how much more money they have to spend of state funds to get a fraction, as you said, of what they got when they were part of Eric. They're welcome back anytime to restore their relationship to continue to be a part of the system. And we're committed as part of Eric to working with every state who wants to be part of

this collaborative to ensure we achieve our common goal rooted in truth, in fact, that our elections remain secure and our voter registration lists are accurate. Secretary Benson, any holiday plans? Working. Look, 2024 has begun. I mean, I'll be excited to spend some time with my seven-year-old and seeing Christmas through the eyes of a seven-year-old is always fun. But in addition to that, we have got an election in February and our first statewide early voting in February. So I'm excited for the year ahead. And preparations have already begun and will continue throughout the holidays. Well, thank you for the work that you've been doing and in advance for the work that you're going to have to do in 2024. You are, you know, on the front lines of

democracy here. So with that said, Secretary Benson, thanks again for taking the time. Happy holidays. Oh, thanks. Happy holidays to you, and thanks for everything you do to shine a light on the work that we're doing and encourage others to be a part of it. Well appreciated. Thank you again to Pete Buttigieg and Jocelyn Benson. Merry Christmas, everybody. I hope you all enjoy some time off, and I'll be back next week with our last episode of 2023. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, interviews captured and edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nicholas Nicotera, and recorded in Los Angeles, California. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app.

Feel free to leave a five-star rating and a review. And check out briantylercoen.com for links to all of my other channels.