No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Republicans ramp redistricting fight up to a 10

Episode Date: August 10, 2025

Republicans just ramped the redistricting fight up to a 10 as Florida announces mid-cycle redistricting. Brian interviews JB Pritzker and Jasmine Crockett about the Texas power grab; Robert Garcia about compelling the release of the Epstein files; and Mehdi Hasan about whether Democrats finally found a will to fight.Shop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Republicans just ramped up their redistricting fight to a 10 with their latest move. And I've got four interviews this week. I speak with J.B. Pritzker and Jasmine Crockett about the Texas power grab, Robert Garcia about compelling the release of the Epstein files, and Medi Hassan about whether Democrats finally found a will to fight. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So Ron DeSantis's Florida has now thrown its hat in the redistricting ring with the announcement that Florida is now looking to engage in mid-cycle map redrawing

in an effort to squeeze out yet more seats for Republicans ahead of 2026. And this, of course, comes after we've learned that Indiana and Missouri are also likely moving forward with new maps and, of course, Texas, which means that we're looking at roughly a dozen seats so far that Republicans are looking to steal ahead of midterms. Will we see more states join in, probably? These Republicans clearly are not moved by any allegiance to the concept of democracy. So now that one domino's fallen, there's pretty much zero incentive to speak out

against this race to the bottom. They all want their little, you know, pets from Donald Trump, so they'll jockey for a position to see who can make him the most proud in their interminable effort to see who can nestle themselves the furthest inside of his colon. But that's all a given, right? Like, we know that Republicans are going to act anti-democratically, and anyone who's under the impression that they won't, truly, truly is not cut out for politics in this moment.

But, armed with that knowledge of who today's GOP is, that makes it quite clear what Democrats need to do at this point. First of all, we need to fight fire with fire. That doesn't mean look into it or convene a committee or find some focus group or wait for the polling. It means wake up, recognize that we're in the middle of an actual war to preserve democracy and start fighting the actual battle that we're in the middle of.

It means if you're a governor of a blue state or the legislature of a blue state, you got to move now to do your part. The Republicans are not waiting for you to respond, so you can either act or hand them the House in 2026. But here's the more important point. This is not just a tit for tat. This isn't okay. Texas wants five seats, so California does five. No way. This is Texas wants five seats and all of Trump's minions across the country are going to do that too, so we need to go all the way. If we're going to do this, we go all in. That means California enacts a 52-0-0. Illinois goes 17 to nothing. Maryland goes eight to nothing. We need New York and Oregon and Washington and Colorado. We need these people

to start fighting back with an actual will to win this fight. Fighting back in a way that actually offers a deterrent for Republicans. Part of the appeal for these Republicans to engage in these anti-democratic moves is knowing that the left is so often too afraid to reciprocate. We couldn't possibly gerrymander because, you know, when they go low, we go high. There's literally nothing to dissentivize bad actors pulling corrupt stunts. That needs to end now. The reality is that the window to fight back is closing, and if it closes, we can't get it back. The thing about gerrymandering is that once one-party rule is implemented somewhere, they've got all the tools at their disposal to ensure that they never lose power again.

It's happening in Texas, happening in Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, across the country. We can stop it now at this moment, but not for much longer. So we need the folks in charge, who are in positions of power on the left, to wake up and recognize that neutrality is not an option here. You don't have the luxury of sitting out. You can either fight back or capitulate. That's it. If you're listening to this podcast right now,

you know that I've been speaking to governors across the country to push them to fight. Newsom, Pritzker, Hokel, Moore. I'm going to continue to use this platform to push them. And if you're listening, you should reach out too, by phone, by social media, whatever it takes. Because whether we're ready for it or not, the fight is here.

We didn't start it, but we should sure as hell be prepared to finish it. Next step are my interviews with J.B. Pritzker, Jasmine Crockett, Robert Garcia, and Medi Hassan. No Lie is brought to you by Strawberry.Me. We spend, what, about a third of our waking hours working, and yet so many people feel stuck in jobs that they've outgrown or never really wanted in the first place. And look, I've heard it all. What if the next move is even worse? I've already put years into this place. I can't afford to take a wrong step. Who am I without this title? Isn't everybody kind of miserable at work? And look, those feelings are real, but they're also why so many people stay stuck. That's where today's sponsor, Strawberry.me, comes in.

They connect you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you actually want to be, whether you're looking for a change or feeling stuck or facing a big decision or just seeking professional growth. It's like therapy for your career. A coach helps you cut through the noise, define your next move, and turn vague goals into a real-world plan with the kind of accountability that keeps you moving forward. Plus, their coaches are thoroughly vetted and assessed for their qualifications. and expertise and come from a wide range of backgrounds, experiences, and specializations.

So don't leave your career to chance. Take action, own your future with a coach in your corner. Go to strawberry.m.m. slash BTC to claim your $50 credit and get started. That's strawberry.m.m. slash BTC. Stop settling, start building the career you actually want. I'm joined now by the governor of Illinois, J.B. Prisker. Thanks so much for joining me. Great to be here, Brian. So we have some new news this morning as it relates to those texts.

legislators who are in your state in Illinois and Chicago. Can you explain what the situation was with the bomb threat in their hotel? Yeah, well, let's start with last night a right-wing video blogger who has White House credentials, I might add, as a correspondent at the White House. I came to an area of Illinois where some of the legislators are staying and started videoing and reporting online. about it. And so that, he then put up a map and put a pin on the map and said this is where these Texas legislators are. So that started this. This morning, there was a bomb threat against the hotel that those Texas legislators were staying at. It had to be swept with a bomb squad and the legislators are safe. We are, we have brought in state police and other law enforcement

to protect them. So it's, you know, it's a dangerous. moment in the country, and now it's literally the physical well-being of those legislators is at stake. You know, it's not just the bomb threat. We've also seen other kinds of threats get waged by members of the right. John Cornyn had called for the FBI to go into the sovereign state of Illinois to be able to collect these Texas legislators. Can I have your response to that effort? I mean, that's just one of a number of efforts put forward by these Texas Republicans who seem increasingly desperate. You also have Greg Abbott, who is trying to get these folks vacated from their seats. Ken Paxton is also engaged in an effort in the courts to do exactly that.

The Speaker of the Texas State House is issuing civil arrest warrants, which, you know, that and 10 bucks will get you a foot long at Subway. But regardless, the point is that they are, that they are doing anything they can to put pressure on these folks, even if it means abusing the law. look i think one of the reasons that the texas house democrats came here to illinois is that we stand united in leadership in our state our attorney general our president of the the state senate our speaker of the house and as governor i have stood together with them that you know we're not going to let the the the bluster and threats from john corn and even from donald trump there is no federal law that dictates that these people should be, could be arrested.

Can they send FBI agents to, you know, try to threaten or, you know, create some scene? Maybe. But there is no federal law that allows them to arrest these legislators. And as you said, the civil warrant that was issued by the House leadership, the Republican leadership in Texas is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with Illinois. We don't recognize their civil warrants from Texas. Texas Rangers can come to Illinois and enjoy our lakefront, but they're not arresting anybody and taking them away. Yeah. To that point, you know, as it relates to these bomb threats and the

use of, you know, these FBI agents, do you have confidence that Donald Trump's FBI is going to be a trustworthy partner in investigating some of these crimes against Texas Democrats, given that their political ideology doesn't comport with the Trump administrations? I mean, Cash Patel runs the FBI and Pam Bondi runs the Department of Justice, drive any trust in either one of them to follow the law. They've demonstrated they won't and don't. So no, I don't have much trust in them. But again, we have a democracy still. We have a constitutional republic still. There are certain parts of the institutions of this country that still operate. And I have to rely upon those. and do everything I can in Illinois to bolster them in every way that I can.

That's all I have. You know, I mean, we're not going, you know, this is not going to be, there's not going to be a civil war. At least I don't anticipate that. And so the question really is, are people just going to buckle because of Donald Trump or Greg Abbott's threats? And I have to tell you, the Texas House Democrats, they're in no mood to buckle.

And I'm so proud to stand with them. remember what these people gave up, right? Their families, their jobs are, you know, literally aren't earning anything while they're in Illinois. It's costing the money to be there. It is. And they're protecting all of us. I mean, frankly, people ought to go online and give money to TexasHousedemocrats.org and to support the effort. And they are receiving a lot of support, but they need more because of all these threats. They have private security. We, of course, have state police now engaged because there have been public threats against them. And so we're going to do everything we can to protect them.

But they need support. And I think all of us in every walk of life, if you care about this country, this is the moment. This is the moment. And this is a cause for you to stand up and fight for. Why was it important for you? I mean, you know, in theory, there's not a lot of like there's no relationship between Texas Democrats and the state. of Illinois, why was it important for you to make yourself in large part a face of this fight? Well, this is about fighting for our country. I mean, I, listen, I helped to build a Holocaust

museum. I led the effort to build the Illinois Holocaust Museum. And what I know is that in 53 days, the Nazis tore down the constitutional republic in Germany in the early 30s. It doesn't take much. And we're seeing pieces of that sort of activity, you know, the authoritarian activity happening right now in this country. And there's only one way to stop it. And that is if people get up, stand up, and protest, use their microphones, their megaphones, and very importantly, we have to win in 2026. So they got to go to the ballot box. You want to preserve this democracy. You want to preserve this republic.

you've got to show up and vote in 2026. In terms of what you would ultimately like to see from this effort, I mean, I think there's no doubt from both sides that if Texas Republicans engage in partisan gerrymandering and further rig their map so that they can add five seats at the behest of Donald Trump, and California responds, and Illinois responds, and Missouri responds, and we continue to have this race to the bottom, which, by the way, was not started here. I mean, a number of states, Republicans have been gerrymandering for years, including Ohio, Texas, Florida, North Carolina, Utah, they just gerrymandered. So there are plenty of examples. Wisconsin is another one that has been gerrymandered for years.

What is the ultimate goal that you would like to see from this effort? If there were any good to come of this, what would you like that to be? There ought to be an independent commission or independent commissions in every state. We need a national law that allows that to have. happen. But the fact of the matter is that doesn't seem like it's possible, at least not right now. And so, you know, we have to recognize that even though, you know, I'd love to see it for the state of Illinois, but we're not going to unilaterally disarm when Republican states are drawing maps, crazy maps. I mean, look at North Carolina what was happening there. And as you said, Wisconsin,

we've seen Republican states doing this. And now you see J.D. Vance going to Indiana. today. Missouri is considering it. This is Donald Trump, tearing the nation apart, changing the rules in the middle of the game, cheating. He's the ultimate cheater, right? The guy is, he defrauds people out of their money. He's been doing that for years. He's doing it even now as president. He cheats on his wives. And now, frankly, he's cheating on the American public and taking their votes away. And one last thing. In Texas, you know, it isn't just five Democratic seats that he's taking away in Texas. These are five Democratic seats that represent black and brown people. And when he tries to take those away, when Greg Abbott tries to take those away, well, he's violating the Voting

Rights Act, which the Constitution upholds. And we've got to do everything we can to fight back against this. This is the crumbling of democracy before our very eyes. So when people say, well, gee, what's happening in Texas? How does that really affect me? It does. Because this is the beginning of the end. If you don't have a representative Congress, truly representative of the country, then, you know, and you've got a president who's an authoritarian, what very little left of democracy after that. Right. And finally, let's finish off with this. What would your message be to other governors around the country, Democratic governors,

who may have the opportunity to join in on this fight on behalf of these Texas Democrats, to join in on the fight on behalf of fair maps and ultimately some type of systems, where everybody is represented by, you know, independent redistricting commissions or whatever it may be, but but who don't know whether it's worth it to kind of dip their toes into this water right now because of how acrimonious all of this is. Yeah, except remember that, you know, your future is bleak if you don't stand up in the moment when it really matters. And so I do believe Democratic governors, and I've heard from many of them over the last two or three days, they stand with these Texas Democrats. They're beginning

to speak out about it. I just heard Josh Shapiro talk about it yesterday. I really believe that there is a momentum that is coming from this because of the sacrifice that these are heroes. I mean, we've got 35 or so of them here in Illinois, but they're, you know, 60 of them. And they're heroes. And we all ought to be standing with them. They're truly on the front lines. You know, I'd like to think I'm also standing with them on the front lines. But these folks gave up everything to do what they're doing. So I just, I would say to leaders across the country who care about the future of this country, this is the moment. This is the fight. Stand up, speak out and do something in your state to better the situation and bolster the institutions that make up

our constitutional republic. Well, I appreciate your leadership on this front and for bringing this fight to the Republicans. Also, one reminder for anybody watching, I'm going to put the link to donate to these Texas Democrats right here on the screen and also in the post. description of this video. If you're listening on the podcast, it'll be on the show notes. Highly recommend that you help these folks out. These are not wealthy, national political figures. These are folks who are making $600 per month, $7,000 per year, and putting it all out on the line. So again, that link is on the screen and also in the post description. Governor Pritzker, I appreciate your time. Thanks, Brian.

No Lie is brought to you by Everyday Dose. Now, a major problem is that everybody wants to get all the supplements they need, but they're expensive and they're hard to keep up with. Everyday dose is affordable and covers all of your bases just in a cup of coffee. It takes 30 seconds to make and you get a cup of coffee plus a bunch of supplements with vitamins, minerals, and amino acids. Everyday dose is coffee plus benefits. It combines 100% Arabica coffee with powerful ingredients like Lionsmane and Chaga, collagen protein, and neutropics to fuel your brain, boost focus, and give you clean, sustained energy all day long. No crash, no jitters, just clean, sustained energy.

Two products to highlight. Coffee Plus and Coffee Plus Bold. Coffee Plus is a mild roast, light and smooth, low acidity, which is easy on sensitive stomachs and it has mellow energy. Coffee Plus Bold is a rich blend of medium roast 100% Arabica coffee, robust and full-bodied yet smooth, extra boost of energy. Both are 100% Arabica coffee, have functional benefits and are mold-free. Everyday dose does do third-party testing.

Get 45% off your first subscription order of 30 servings of Coffee Plus or Bold Plus. You'll also receive a starter kit with over $100. in free gifts, including a rechargeable frother and gunmetal serving spoon by going to Everydaydose.com slash BTC or entering BTC at checkout. You'll also get free gifts throughout the year. That's Everydaydose.com slash BTC for 45% off your first order. I'm joined now by Congressman Jasmine Crockett. Thanks for joining me. Absolutely. So I want to talk about what's happening in your state of Texas because these Texas Republicans have targeted you, among other of your colleagues that in the House right now, your reaction first and foremost to folks like Greg Abbott, John Cornyn,

Ken Paxson, Donald Trump, and the Speaker of the Texas House for going through with this plan to deprive you of your ability to represent your constituents. Yeah, so that was a long list of losers that you just laid out. And essentially, that's what it is. They're like, you know what, we know we're losers. And so the only way that we can win is if we cheat. And that's exactly what we are enduring. But I've got news for them. It doesn't really matter where they draw the lines, I will be able to win a district in the state of Texas because I feel like I have strongly represented for my district. So congressional district 30, while they drew me out of my seat, they drew me actually into Mark Visi's seat. What is most alarming, though, is we have three

Democratic reps in North Texas. And that's myself, it's Mark Visi, and it's Julie Johnson. What they have decided to do is in super blue Dallas, Texas, in super blue, not only just super blue Dallas, Texas, but super blue like DFW area, as well as super diverse. Like, let's talk about the diversity. There's so much diversity in this area. They have decided that they were going to chop and screw these districts to the extent that those diverse voices would be diluted.

When we did the math, if you aren't, an African-American in the state of Texas, and Texas has more African-Americans than any other state, than your vote only counts one-fifth as much as an Anglo in the state of Texas. You are a Latino. Your voting strength is only one-third that of an Anglo in the state of Texas. And that is what we are talking about. We are talking about the fact that Republicans are now saying, you know what, we don't trust those diverse voices because we know we have a white supremacy agenda. So therefore,

we are going to make sure that they don't participate because they are not going to go along with this anti-diversity, equity, and inclusion agenda that we have, that is defunding health care, that is defunding access to capital for small businesses, that is defunding education. That is why they don't want us to be able to speak up and have our own voices. Do you have any confidence that other Democratic governors, like Governor Newsom in California, Governor Pritzker in Illinois, that them pushing back might have something of a deterrent effect? Or do you think that these guys are just, you know, blinders on, you know, continue going

and there's nothing that's going to stop him at this point because Trump said jump, they say how high? I think if they were reasonable, I think that if they cared about the work, I think if they listened to the people, then, yeah, they would care. But that's not who these people are. They could care less. All they do is they take. the power and then they ignore the people that put them in power. What they do instead is they

pledge their fealty to some idiot who obviously is struggling mentally, whether it is mental decline or whether it's not he's ever had the capacity. They have decided that they're going to do whatever it is that he wants them to do instead of doing what's right for Texas. One of my colleagues, Sylvia, continues to say, I never thought I'd see the day that a Texan, would bow down to a New Yorker, right? Like, we know how Texas has this next level pride the same way that New York does. But that's exactly what we see happening.

So the only thing the Democrats can do is they can decide that they're going to sit there and be the nice guys that we have always been, the ones that always want to take the high road, or they can decide that there is a fight that is being waged. And while we didn't start it, we will finish it and make sure that we finish it on behalf of the American people and democracy.

What's your message to those state reps who've fled the state and look, who are getting fined $500 a day, even though their salary is $600 a month, who are right now living in not exactly optimal conditions and contending with bomb threats right now as this last line of defense to stop this special legislative session from moving forward? I think that this is indicative of where we are in this country. I first want to say to my former colleagues in the state house, you are the real superheaval. Rose. I will never stop championing what you're doing because I understand what that sacrifice looks like. I obviously broke quorum in 21. But when we broke quorum in 21, it was definitely about kind of ringing the alarms specifically on things like this. We were trying

to signal to the rest of the country that it was so important that we get engaged. And so we went to D.C. We wanted them to pass the Freedom to Vote Act, which if the Freedom to Vote Act had passed, then Elon Musk couldn't have bought the presidency. We were trying to push them to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act, which if it passed, then we wouldn't be in this situation as it relates to redistricting right now. We would have squashed all of that because those bills deal with these issues, right? And so we were trying to ring the alarms at that moment. But for a lot of people, I think that they saw the fight as like, oh, this is over voting rights and it's a Texas issue and that kind of stuff and whatever. But the fact that these Texans decided

that they were going to leave their homes, that they were going to be bullied by cowards who want to arrest them. I mean, they are going harder on elected officials that are simply trying to make sure that their constituents' voices are not minimized than they're going on, say, getting the Epstein files. Like, we know that y'all know how to move clearly

because y'all have called in the FBI and everybody else trying to go after not pedophiles, right? Because we know that seemingly the commander-in-chief has a soft spot for pedophiles. Because next thing you know, we know that Ms. Maxwell was transferred to a cushier existence in a federal system, penituary system, right? But now you want to go after lawfully elected people whose constituents are not upset with them at all because they dared to do what democracy says we should do, which is to represent. So for those that don't understand, in our Texas Constitution, it specifically provides for breaking quorum. And this is one of those circumstances. And they're not doing it because they are the ones whose districts are on the chopping block. They're not doing it because they're concerned per se about individual congressional members. They're doing it because this country is on fire. And it is time for people to see that we have a fire in our belly. There are Democrats that are willing to weigh. a ridiculous fight if it means that we're going to protect democracy. So I love them. I thank them and I stand with them. Perfectly put. You know, I think I think what you said about the fact that

these Republicans are showing us that if they want to get something done, they can. You've got the Speaker of the State House issuing civil arrest warrants. You've got John Cornyn going to the FBI. You've got Cash Patel saying, yeah, the FBI is at your disposal. You've got Greg Abbott and Ken Paxton going to the courts to try and deprive these people of their seats to vacate their seats. And so if there's a will to get something done in the GOP, clearly these people are showing that they are not, that there's no stone that they won't leave unturned. And yet when it comes to the Epstein files, something that they themselves have been barking about for years and years and years when they finally have the chance to substantiate what they themselves have been saying,

their hands are tied. There's nothing they can do. They're not even willing to hold Pam Bondi to account, even though she said the files were on her desk. And so it goes to show when they want get something done they can and when they don't, that's a conscious decision that they're making too, which I guess leads me to this question here. The oversight committee has compelled the release of the Epstein files and that should be done within two weeks. How confident are you that they're going to comply and that these files will be in your hands by the time that that deadline approaches? I'm pretty confident. I mean, this is a subpoena that came from the Republican chair. There was a bipartisan vote in one of our subcommittees.

on oversight that is led by the amazing Summerlee out of the state of Pennsylvania. And so when they thought they were getting everybody out of D.C. in time, again, I tell people all the time that they may have the muscle, meaning that they have the numbers, but we definitely have the brains. So they are all brawn and we are all brains on this side. And so we were able to outmaneuver them because that's what we do. We actually think. And so, you know, this is a subpoena that then the chair of the entire oversight committee then had to send out because there was, you know, the vote. And so this is coming from Comer. So this is coming from another Republican. Now, you know, whether or not DOJ, you know, gives us a trickle down or, you know,

how they treat it and that kind of stuff, who knows, we know that they are spending so many man hours on redacting Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if they come up with some Trump. up reason to explain why any of the documents that have anything to do with him cannot come out. I mean, they will make up law. They will go to the courts that belongs to them. Like, they will do a lot of things. So I think that we'll get something. But I think that, you know, they will only give us what they want us to have versus fully complying with the subpoena itself. What's your message to those Trump supporters who stake so much of their support for Donald Trump on this idea that he's going to finally do what so many other politicians

wouldn't do, which is to expose this deep state cabal of elites who are above the law who can operate with impunity and do heinous, vile things, who now very much seems to be entrenching the very system that he promised to expose. You know, what I really want people, whether they're a Trumper, a MAGA, Republican, independent, or former Democrat, right? Like, what I want them to do is evaluate, number one, what is government for, right? And evaluate how it is that we are choosing our elected officials. Government is not for enriching the people that are elected, right? This is why it is wildly popular to stop members from trading stocks.

This is why, you know, there should be more outrage at the fact that, you know, probably at this point, at least 50% of Donald Trump's wealth has come just since he's gotten into office. Like, we should all be disgusted because we should have a government that has transparent and honest leaders that are strictly focused on us and nothing else. But honestly, when you have someone that consistently shows you that he has no relationship whatsoever with the truth, you got to start calling him out. You got to start understanding that there is a reason that he is constantly lying to your face. You've got to say we deserve better. This is more so about what we deserve. We are supposed to be a government for and by and of the people. And let me tell you right now, from all of the foreign government, interference that we've got going on

ever since his first administration from all the intermingling that he does with his businesses, with foreign governments and his family, from the crypto schemes. Like, we should be concerned because it is clear that he is not putting America first. It is clear that he's not putting Americans first.

The fact that we're in this crazy tariff war that is only hurting us domestically, like this is a problem. Like, I don't want, you know, what I would wish if I could, like, wave a magic wand is if people would literally not look at the R or the D in front of somebody's name, they would just look and have like a little snippet, a little paragraph of what the people have done. Tell me about the bills they filed. Tell me about how those bills impacted people. I can tell you that I have worked on things such as the Democracy Restoration Act. I can tell you that I've worked on bills around. protecting reproductive access. I can tell you that I have filed criminal justice reform bills that would make sure that we never had to worry about the crack cocaine disparities. Like, I can tell you things that people can look at and say, you know what, I agree with

this or I disagree with this. And then you can look at somebody who says, I wanted to make sure that I gave tax cuts to billionaires at the expense of health care to people that needed it. I can say, you know what, this person decided they wanted a $200 million ballroom. and this is at the expense of USAID and impacting our soft power around the world. Like, I just need people to look at the substance of who people are instead of consistently following anybody, anybody, Democrat, Republican, or independent blindly. That is why democracy is supposed to be so great.

It's because we are supposed to be the voices. We are supposed to be the ones that are running it. And right now, we've got a minutia of people. I mean, it is such a tiny group of people that are controlling all of us instead of the majority of us controlling our elected officials. Yeah. And that was perfectly put. And I think the most egregious part of all of that is that this guy ran on a populist platform. He ran dangling promises all the way going back to his first term of infrastructure, of middle class tax cut, of a jobs boom of a manufacturing renaissance, a health care plan that was cheaper and more comprehensive of cheaper groceries. and eggs and housing and rent of free IVF, he hasn't delivered any of that. The only thing he's expended his political capital on is a tax cut for millionaires and

billionaires both times. And now he's looking out for himself to the tune of $200 billion for a ballroom. He gave himself a billion dollar retrofitted jet that not a single one of these feckless Republicans could lift a finger to say, hey, maybe you don't get to keep a jet that costs a billion dollars to the taxpayer. For all you have Carolyn Levitt applauding the fact that he's donating his paycheck. So I think his paycheck would be like 33,000 gross. So the guy donates a 33,000 paycheck and hands himself a billion dollar jet paid for by American

taxpayers. This guy is so clearly not looking out for any of the people who he conned into voting for him, all of the rubs that he conned into voting for him while he continues to heap more benefits, more wealth unto himself. The guy doubled his net worth in like six months. I don't know how many people watching out there have gone from $2.5 billion to $5.1 billion in the last six months, but I presume it's not most people. And finally, let's finish off with this.

Donald Trump's DOJ just announced that it's going after New York Attorney General Letitia James. And so we're seeing one more instance of the weaponization of the federal government at the hands of Donald Trump going after his political opponents. So can I have your reaction to that move? Yeah, you know, I mean, you could see this a mile away, right? Like even a blind man could see it coming because we know that this is a guy of the campaign and said, I will be your retribution. And that really translated into him seeking his retribution if he were to get into office. And what is so frustrating is that we have a guy that decides that he wants to say he's all about law and order, but if anything, he is the most lawless person that we have ever had. And this is not by any stretch of the imagination considering the fact that he is the only president we've ever had that has been convicted of 34 felony convictions on top of the fact that he had so many other outstanding cases. So to have the audacity to believe that he should go after someone who is duly elected, who has never been accused of a crime, who, truly you are trying to trump up charges on.

That's all we're seeing. The same thing with going after Jack Smith, right? The same thing with firing all of those that participated in the legal and lawful investigation of his wrongdoing while they were at the DOJ. Like people that are following the law, they're following the evidence, they're following the paper trail of documents that you took and stuffed into your gaudy bathroom and ugly ballroom. Okay. Like, that's what they're following. Like, they didn't make this up out of thin air, you know? And so it is frustrating, but I absolutely knew this was coming.

I absolutely see that there will be other political opponents that he will go after because this is the only reason he wanted to be in office was to number one, stay out of prison. And number two, do his best to try to muddy the water and pretend like the real lawless people were the people that were actually doing with their oath prescribed versus him, who basically it's just a sexual deviant, I'm going to call him, who, you know, is obviously been found liable for, you know, being a little less than truthful, more than once in civil context, as well as criminal. Yeah.

Well, as always, I appreciate your fight and you take the time today. Absolutely. Have a good one. I'm joined now by the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee, Robert Garcia. Congressman, thanks for joining me. Yeah, happy to be here. So you've got some breaking news here as it relates to a subpoena for the Epstein files. Can you explain what just happened in committee?

Yeah, I mean, this is big news. Obviously, it's good for transparency for the American public. James Cumber just put out the subpoena today that is actually going to get the subpoena files to Congress and to the Oversight Committee. This, of course, is because a couple weeks ago, Democrats forced a vote in a subcommittee of the Oversight Committee where we got a couple Republicans to join all the Democrats on the committee to actually make that motion to release those files. And so we've been waiting for KOMA to get the subpoena out. Of course, Republicans didn't want to do this, but we forced that vote. And now the subpoena out is out. It's a full files, any documents, anything that

the DOJ has, we are now going to be in possession of. The request has been in the next two weeks. So we hope that DOJ complies with that timeline. What is the timeline here? How long do they have to wait? Because we've seen that every chance they have to actually put forward these delay tactics they will. Right. I mean, obviously it's in the DOJ's court right now. We've questioned the files in two weeks. And so either we're going to get those files, or they're going to try to stall in some way. And so we're going to push back on that, of course. What is Donald Trump hiding? He should want to get all these files out. He campaigned on it. Apparently, they're sitting on Pam Bondi's desk. Like, let's get these files over to Congress. There's been a bipartisan subpoena. Let's

stop with the lies, let's stop with the cover-up, let's stop protecting all these powerful people that harmed clearly women and young girls, and let's get the truth out there. Congressman, how confident are you that the files that you would get are even the full tranche of files? I mean, like, to suggest that everything that comes is going to be exactly, exactly as it was in the initial files, is to basically say that you believe Donald Trump, Pam Bondi, Cash Patel, and Dan Bongino are actually responsible stewards of this stuff. Well, if they didn't hand over everything they have, it's not just irresponsibility. It is immense corruption, highly illegal, and unconstitutional. And so I think that it is concerning.

Look, I don't trust anything that Donald Trump or the Department of Justice enforce or their actions. So I think we should be clear about that. At the same time, the subpoena is out there, it's bipartisan, it was sent by a Republican majority in the House. And so let's see what we actually get and what they send over and what that timeline actually looks like. So I will give them the benefit of the doubt in this moment, but in no way do I trust Donald Trump's Department of Justice. In the same committee, there was also a vote about compelling or subpoenaing the testimony

of a bunch of Democrats, of the Clintons and James Comey. So can you give us some understanding of what way not? on that front and what we can expect with that subpoena? Yeah. So, I mean, Republicans, obviously, they have a majority in the committee. So they made a motion and they wanted to subpoena all these other folks. And they can subpoena whoever they want. I mean, they have the votes to do so.

And so they did that. We wanted them to go further and subpoena other folks in the Trump administration. They didn't want to do that. That's on them. At the end of the day, our motion was about getting the files because we know that the truth and transparency is going to come when we actually center the victims, protect them, and get justice for them. And that means getting those files out to the public and exposing whoever caused the harm.

This isn't going away. And I think that, you know, Republicans and Mike Johnson and other folks continue to trying to hide what's happening here. This is only going to snowball, as we know. And so it's in their best interest to get this to the public, to us, and for us to go ahead and release. And look, the release is about censoring the victims and getting justice for them. That's what this has to be about. Was this just like so that the Republicans can, feel like they have something to bring back to daddy Trump? Like, we're, okay, yes, we may have

compelled the release of these Epstein files against Trump's wishes. But, but don't worry because we've also done our part to help perpetuate this bogus theory that, you know, Hillary Clinton brush a gate. I mean, I legitimately can't even stay on top of what the new scandal is right now. But is this just to, to feel like they got one also so that they can perpetuate the distraction from the Epstein stuff? I mean, probably. I mean, I think, look, they're, they create a new conspiracy theory every day. And obviously they're trying to create a new one with the Clintons as it relates to Russia and all these other just bizarre accusations that they like to make. So yes, I'm sure a lot of it is about just creating smoke and mirrors. But they're also trying

to hide the fact and dismiss the fact that the scandal here is the cover up at the White House around the Epstein files. And that's, I think, where the focus needs to be. And while we're pushing for this release, I think we all, certainly Democrats, I think the American and public at large, we've been saying, we don't care who's in the files. We don't care how powerful that you are, what political party that you were in. Right. Or if, if there are Democrats, like, we don't care. We're not here. Like, there is no culture and personality here. If it's Democrats that are impacted or Republican, who cares? If you did harm and you're abusing and causing violence and trafficking, then you need to be exposed. And I think all of us

should be united around that. Okay. So aside from the, from compelling the release of the Epstein files and this subsequent vote so that Trump could feel like he got one, too. There was also the impending matter of being able to subpoena testimony from Galeen Maxwell herself, and that deposition was going to take place on August 11th. There was an update as far as James Culler was concerned. Can you explain what happened with him? Yeah. So there's a couple things, pieces of this.

I mean, one, there is, of course, this deposition that we're seeking for Gleine Maxwell. That's a piece of it. That was done through the Oversight Committee. Galeigh Maxwell is working with James Comer. Essentially, that deposition has been postponed until after her Supreme Court appeal. We oppose that. Now, they did agree with us as Democrats that they wouldn't get the questions in advance. She wouldn't get immunity.

But the postponing of the deposition is concerning. The second piece of this, which is happening in real time, is we also know that Galeen Maxwell then, of course, meets with Donald Trump's Department of Justice. And not only her Department of Justice, her former, Donald Trump's former attorney, right? Todd Blanche used to be his personal lawyer to Donald Trump, and she's meeting on the side with him, and now that testimony might get released. But all of this is honestly is really concerning because Donald Trump injecting himself. She wants a pardon. She wants to reduce sentence.

Republicans want to protect Donald Trump. And so she is not a trustworthy person. She's a convicted sex trafficker. And we've got to remember that so that all this information that she puts out has to be viewed in a way that's very, very skeptical. And knowing that she's someone that is not a good person and her best interests are not the victims. What benefit does she derive by virtue of waiting for the Supreme Court to weigh in? Well, she wants Supreme Court to essentially to reduce her sentencing. And so that's, for her, that's key to key.

She doesn't want anything to get in the way of her trying to get out of prison. And now, of course, she's been moved. I mean, Trump's Department of Justice clearly was involved in moving her and encouraging the Federal Bureau of Prison system, less, you know, a place that's essentially less secure where she has much more movement where she is much more comfortable. And that is not, that is not right. That is not a way of holding the truth of what she did and harming these young women and girls. You know, from the outside, it very much looks like if you're getting preferential treatment, it is, it's a reward for something. I mean, with that, am I off base to think that if you're moved from a higher

security prison where she was in Florida to a low security prison where she is, is now in Texas, that it doesn't just, I mean, this stuff doesn't just happen in a vacuum, right? And so my off base to think that that could very well be the reward for something, perhaps that she discussed with Todd Blanche. I mean, I think that's the concern. I think the fact that she's getting a cashier,

essentially a prison in place, in place to spend her time. Yeah. It's concerning. And look, we don't know what happened in that room. We don't know what she's been promised. We don't know what she has said. But what I do know is that she's not trustworthy not a good person and should not have been moved. And so all of this is continuing to snowball.

And there's a lot of information out there. It's complex and complicated. But we have to remember one thing, which is Donald Trump campaigned on releasing the EPSC files. He has now decided not to do so. And instead is trying to take our attention into different places. We're not going to let up. The subpoena is out. Donald Trump, we know, is also in the files per the Department of Justice and reporting that you know, Pam Bondi has told him, hey, you are in these files, but we don't know what that looks like, so we've got to get the trip out. And finally, what would your message to Trump supporters be out there who staked a lot of their support for the guy on the fact that he said he would be the one to expose, you know,

this, this tranche of deep state elites who are able to act with impunity, even when they commit the most heinous of crimes. And now, far from keeping true to his own word, he's actually entrenching the very system that you promised to fight against. I mean, I would say those Trump supporters, that he's betrayed you. I mean, Donald Trump has betrayed you. I mean, he's lied to you about Medicaid. He's taken away health care.

He's lied to you about supporting working people. He's given away your money to the very rich. He told you he was going to release the Epstein files, and he's lying to you about that as well. He has betrayed his base, and I think his base, a lot of them understand that. And so they're also out there and they're causing hell to their own members of Congress and Republican districts. And we're going to keep fighting and ensure that these files get released to the public. Yeah, I think that's a great point.

I mean, look, his whole presidency, the pattern here, has been promising his supporters one thing and delivering something that is completely the opposite. And his first term, he promised, you know, a jobs boom, manufacturing renaissance, an infrastructure law, a health care plan that was more comprehensive and more affordable, didn't deliver on any of that. He gave himself a tax cut for millionaires and billionaires. Now, this term came in promising to end the Ukraine war on day war on, promising to bring down costs, promising to bring down inflation, promising to make IVF free. promising to bring rent down, none of those things have happened yet again gave himself a tax cut for millionaires and billionaires,

and in fact, when he promised to be the guy that would defer to his supporters, defer to regular people, he is instead, again, protecting this, this, you know, trunch of people at the very top who are unaccountable to our laws. So I think it's a great point to bring that up. It's not just as it relates to the Epstein files,

but everything that he's done in his president, So with that said, I appreciate your time today. Thanks for continuing to fight this fight and looking forward to seeing what happens when it comes time to actually release these files. Congressman, thanks so much. I'm joined now by the founder of Zateo, Medi Hassan. Medi, thanks for joining me. Brian, good to be back. So I want to start with some breaking news that we saw today, and that is that Donald Trump

has allowed his FBI with the help of Cash Patel to now go after these Texas legislators who fled the state to go to Illinois. So first and foremost, can I have your reaction to the fact that this is, you know, despite what Cash Patel said in his confirmation hearing about not wanting to weaponize the Department of Justice, that's exactly what we're seeing right now. It was inevitable, Brian, that this was going to happen. This was the very reason that Cash Patel was picked to be the yes man. Donald Trump has wanted Cash Patel in a position of national security intelligence for a while.

You'll remember after the last election he tried to make him Deputy Director of the CIA. Gina Haspel at the time career CIA official said she would quit if that happened. He bided his time, got convicted, got re-elected, and brought back Cash Patel to a compliant Republican Senate that knew he wasn't qualified to be FBI director, knew he would be a yes man, knew he would politicize the Bureau in a way that they've always accused Democrats of doing. And this is what he's doing. By the way, Brian, we're speaking on a day when actually Cash Patel was supposed to be at J.D. Vance's house today, chatting about Epstein.

And then that leaked out, so they canceled the whole thing, and Vance has been denying it in the Oval Office today that it was ever going to happen. But it's funny that they went straight from being one kind of politicized FBI to be like, all right, I'll do something else today, political. I'll go off to Democrats in Illinois. Like, that's what his day job is to serve Trump. Medi, do you think that what we're seeing right now from some of the Democrats out there? There are a few governors who are vowing to fight back

against what Texas Republicans are doing. We see Gavin Newsom, J.B. Pritzker. You know, we've seen, to some degree, Kathy Hochel in New York, although, you know, she's limited by what New York's Constitution allows them to do. Although I would also make the argument that Republican states have been limited

by what they're able to do, and they've done it anyway. We saw unconstitutional maps enacted in Louisiana and Alabama, and still they did that at such a late time that even though the courts noted that they were unconstitutional gerrymanders, it was too close to the election for them to change it. They relied on the Purcell Doctrine. So I think if there was really a desire to get this stuff done, we don't have to look far to see what it looks like when those Republican governors get it done. But that notwithstanding, do you think that we're seeing something of a sea change among

Democrats who have for so long been the party of strongly worded letters. I hope so. I'm going to reserve judgment until I see some actions back up those words. Illinois Governor Pritzker, New York Governor Hokel and California Governor Neutral and California government have all said the right things. Now they've just got to do it. As you say, there are some limitations, but these are the same limitations that Republicans overcome all the time.

You and I at the Zateo event in L.A. talked at great length in front of the audience about the Senate parliamentarian and how Senate Democrats deferred to the parliamentarians and said, well, she said we can't do a minimum wage increase. She said, we can't put this in our bill. Republicans came along and they refused to even meet with the parliamentarian when they did their big, ugly-ass bell. So that is the difference in the two parties. I hope, and I've said this before, to you and to others, I hope Democrats learn the right lessons from this period of opposition, that when their opponents get into power, they're not limited by conventions or norms or all the other things that now seem so quaint and

antiquated. And you can't play this whole moral high ground game. Well, you know, they're going to do this stuff, but we're going to stay pure. It doesn't work like that. You do that and you lose. And it's worse than just losing. You do that and you abandon your constituents who need you. Many, we've spoken about this idea that what the future of the Democratic Party is going to look like is not necessarily whether progressivism wins out or a more moderate posture wins out, but rather this idea of Democrats who are actually going to stand up and fight. Do you agree with that? Do you think that the future of the Democratic Party is not so much like the monolithic nature of your political ideology,

but rather just your willingness to like go balls to the wall? Yeah, I've been saying that for a while. I said that when Democrats are in office as well. I think, you know, the left-right dimension is still important in policy terms, for sure. But in terms of saving American democracy, standing up to a Republican body, it's less relevant. It's about who actually has the balls, the backbone, the ability, the desire, the communication skills to actually take the fight to the other side and fight on their terrain, not your own terrain. I would say someone like Zoran Mamdani, who is the New York Democratic mayoral

candidate, is a perfect mix of those two things. He's shown that you can't actually have progressive radical policies, you know, shake things up, tax the rich, look after your constituents, freeze the rents. You can have a Bernie-esque, if we want to call it that agenda. But people forget, he's also the guy who showed up at Albany to protest Tom Homan in person a few months ago, right? He was there on the front lines. Like, he didn't, he didn't just write a sternly worded letter or say, I'm going to do X and Y when I met. He turned up, put his body on the line, got grappled by police officers, and heckled, rightly so, the fascistic homan, the border chief. So I think, I think Zoranmanani has walked a great line on this in terms of making sure he's standing up to

Trump, standing up to Trumpism, calling out Republicans, but also doing what constituents and the Democratic base wants right now, which is more progressive policies, less corporate friendly policies, less pro-rich policy. I think you can do both. One thing I would say about the governor so far is, again, we need to say if the actions match the words, we need to say what they actually do. And I think the key when we get to 2028 is, yes, are you going to take on Trump rhetorically, or are you going to do it actually with actions, with policies, with positions? I'll give you one example. Corey Booker gave a 20, what is it, 25, 26 hour speech, whatever it was earlier this year, broke the record for Senate speeches.

I believe that speech is now a book, and he's going to be doing a book tour. He went straight to the top of the class in terms of opinion polls. You saw those polls, Brian, suddenly he was like in the top three presidential candidates, people were saying to me, oh, Cory Booker's going to be a favorite. I was like, come on, we're three and a half years out from 2028. No polls now have any meaning. Let's see what happens going forward. Immediately, his poll numbers dropped.

Why? Because liberals were upset with him, because he voted to confirm Charles Kushner-Jarid's dad as ambassador to fronts. I believe he was the only Senate Democrat who did that. And the left is really upset with him because he then went and signed off on another set of weapon sales to Benjamin Netanyahu in the middle of an ongoing genocide. And now, suddenly, it's gone downhill. People don't like him so much anymore.

So this thing, you know, between now in 2020, you and I and many others, again, have a lot of conversations about who's up, who's down, and ultimately it'll be, it's not just who's saying the right thing, but who's doing the right thing. Right, right. I completely agree with that. Why do you think that where a lot of the energy,

like we, okay, so we just, We just spoke about how it's not necessarily progressive versus moderate. That's going to be the thing moving forward. But so much of the energy is in the progressive wing of the party when you look at Bernie and AOC doing their tour, when you look at the success that Zoran Mamdani has had in New York. And so what would be your advice, I guess, is the question to these more moderate members of the Democratic Party. Again, knowing that like representing a moderate district like Marie Galusen-Camp, Perez or Jared Golden, we want those people because the alternative to them is going to be

some Republican. So when we have these conservative Democrats, like part of being in a big tent is being in a big tent, right? It's being tolerant enough that even when there's somebody whose ideology doesn't comport 100% with ours, that's okay. Because again, like part of being in a big tent is being tolerant of those people who have views that aren't directly ideologically aligned. But what would your advice be to those folks to get the same degree of, I guess, passion or excitement behind them as we're seeing from these members of the progressive wing of the party.

So, again, I think it comes back to like, what do we call left and what do we call right? I mean, some of this stuff is just, I mean, now we use the phrase populist standing up to the establishment, which can be populist right, populist left. You mentioned Jared Golden. If memory says we correctly, Jared Golden

supports Medicare for All. He sees that as something that helps his constituents, even though, as you say, he's in a very conservative front-line district. I think Zephyr Teachout did a call quite good study of frontline Democrats who are in these swing seats and are seen as conservative or moderate or whatever it is. And actually a lot of them ran in 2024 in the congressional elections on a very populist platform, anti-big business, anti-price gouging, anti-big farmer.

You can run in conservative districts on populist platforms because guess what? Conservatives don't like big farmer or big tech or big oil either, right? Republican voters tell pollsters every day they don't like rich people being too rich. They don't like corporations. not paying tax. They don't like the fact they don't have health care. So I think the pushback, the pushback to that is going to be that people are going to say, okay, you say the Republicans say that they don't want all of these things, but they'll vote for a party that consistently heaps benefits, heaps subsidies onto fossil fuels, that continuously cuts taxes for millionaires and billionaires. And so the difficult part for me is like,

yeah, when you understand, you understand this stuff and you understand what they have told pollsters and you look at the numbers and, you know, 90% of Americans want to cut taxes on, uh, I'm sorry, 90% of Americans want to impose an additional tax burden on the wealthiest Americans. But half of those people consistently vote for a party that does the complete opposite. Well, I'll say two things to that. Number one, it's because Republicans have now successfully reinvented themselves as this kind of fake populist working party. So you can with a clear conscience as a working class American say, well, I'm voting for Republicans and Trump because they're sticking it to the man and they're giving me no taxes on tips. that bullshit that's been sold to them as some kind of populist agenda, and you ignore the

tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires, you ignore all the gifts to corporations and the deregulation and the doge stuff. So that's one issue is that the Republicans have successfully done that. And the way they've been able to successfully do that, Brian, aside from just brazenly lying, is the Democrats left the space open for them. Let's just be very honest about that. The only way the Republicans were able to occupy that pro-worker, anti-establishment platform that Donald Trump came up with in 2016, which he never believed in and never acted on, is because the space was left open. Nature abhors a vacuum, right?

The Republicans would never have occupied that space had Democrats not vacated that space. And I think most Democrats would probably agree with that analysis now. Maybe not five years ago. I think pretty much entire party leadership now accepts that is true. That's point number one.

Point number two, the Republicans are very good as you know better than me. You're in entire, but they're cynically switching attention, deflecting culture wars, right? So they know, and this has been the trick since Reagan and even before Reagan, Nixon, that they know they can't win on the economics.

They know that the American public consistently for decades do not support wealthy people avoiding taxes. They do not support corporations getting away with murder. So what they've done is they say, well, let's talk about abortion, let's talk about DEI, let's talk about trans kids, let's talk about Mexican immigrants, let's talk about Sharia law, right? They've been the masters of switching, getting people to vote against their own material and economic interest because they think they're voting for some higher cause for God, for country, for morality, or bullshit, but they've successfully done that. They've raise the salience of cultural war issues while, you know, ignoring or deflecting or side-playing

the economic stuff. And I think Democrats need to find a way. There's no simple solution to this. I'm not pretending it's easy. But they have to find a way to both, A, win the culture wars, because I don't think you can run away from culture wars, but also B, bring attention back in the way that AOC or Mamdani in New York did. Or Harris did. Let's not forget, Kamala Harris, in August of last year, was leading in the polls. She had all the momentum. She was talking about price gouging and greedflation and all of that. And then after the DNC, she stopped talking about all of that. Some people say it's because her brother-in-law from Uber persuaded her not to.

Who knows what happened behind the scenes. But we know the campaign markedly changed from going after those populist targets. And that didn't help her. Yeah. I think also, if you look at the massive advantage that Republicans and right-wingers have in the alternative media space, which is a space that you and I occupy, that allows them to drive the conversation. If we just simply do not have the number of voices that they do, eventually they're going to win out. Eventually, if they just have more voices, they are louder, they are going to win out.

And it doesn't help that they have unlimited funds that can put money behind that stuff so that, you know, turning an entire election into a referendum on transgender reassignment surgeries in prison becomes the issue when Kamala Harris didn't even mention it one time in this entire campaign. But if Democrats, but if Democrats go back to your point at the beginning, Brian, had fighters. I agree. You can't do it about the media of playing. what it is. That is the way it is. They have an advantage. But it doesn't help that not only do they have a advantage, they also are up against a party that is not ready for a fight, is not

willing for a fight. So, you know, how many, what, how many members of the House are there? 200, how many Democratic members of the House are around? 200 and something. 13, something like that. Yeah. Okay. How many of you and I heard of, we do this for a living? I couldn't, I couldn't name half of them. What are they doing? Where are they? They're not all over your TV screens. They're not all over your social media. They're not all over your town halls. Most of them are living a quiet lie, keep their head down, put their heads up for election time. To be fair, to Republicans, as much as I loathe a lot of the people in the House right now, they're everywhere. You can't blink. There's some new, some new provocative member of the House pop. I could probably

name to you more Republican House members than I could Democratic House members, because they're all over everything. And that's because they want to have a fight, right? And by the way, they also have amazing message discipline, right? Once the, once the dictat has come down from Trump or Bannon or whoever it is Miller, that's it. They all go, this week is DEI Week. This week, we're only going to talk about trans, right? Democrats don't have that. We know that. You and I have banged out against walls saying, where is it? Like today, I'll give you one example. This morning I wake up to the NPR story that Donald Trump put a man from January 6th, who said kill cops on camera. He said we should kill cops at January 6th. He's now an official at the

Department of Justice. Now, only did Trump pardon him, he gave him a job at the Justice Department. Now, a few years back, Black Lives Matter protests, some random people not associated with the BLM leadership said pigs in a blanket, fry them, some line about the police. Republicans ran endlessly on that one quote. It became a household quote in every Fox watching household. Every Republicans are Democrats a pro-killing the police. Black Lives Manor must be disowned. And by the way, Democrats went along with it and said, yeah, yeah, we disown all this. Are we going to see, Brian, you answer the question for me. Are we going to see Democrats do that with this NPR story this morning? Yes or no. No. No. It'll be

gone by tomorrow. Yeah. Well, and And look, like, I think you can go all the way up to today. I mean, you have, you have even the Sydney-Sweeney thing. I mean, like, you have a few, the right-wing media ecosystem is so coordinated that you have a few accounts on TikTok and Instagram who have spoken about this issue that no national Democrats have weighed in on. And it goes all the way up to the president of the United States because they know that if you can traffic in these culture wars, that's going to be better terrain for them.

And so even if they have to pick some anecdotal thing from some random person on TikTok who is not an elected official, they'll do it because it helps them. them and they understand that. To that point, I want to move over to to an issue that has broken through on culture, and that is the Epstein issue. And you and I spend so much of our time trying to get an otherwise pretty apathetic population to pay attention to politics to understand why this stuff is so important. And every once in a while, an issue like Epstein rolls around where it actually breaks through in a way that you'll never have for a discussion on Medicaid or food assistance or the intricacies of our gun laws or whatever it may be, even though

those things are much more important. But on this issue of Epstein, I'm curious to your thoughts here, because we've seen it breakthrough, because we've seen Shane Gillis talk about this at the SBs, and we've seen all of these podcasters talk about it. And my friends and families who are not political, they talk, they understand what's going on. Do you think that this has staying power? Or, I mean, we still are in a new cycle that moves very quickly. Yes. This has been a month-long story. Is this going to be the kind of thing that sticks around or that will eventually dissipate like everything else does. The cynic in me says the latter.

It will eventually dissipate. I hope I'm wrong. This is the first Trump scandal, which was driven by Trump voters, not by Democrats. It's so funny when you see Trump in the Oval Office saying, was it yesterday, today, I've lost track of days, where he was asked by a reporter about Epstein and he says, oh, this is just a Democratic hoax. This is pushed by the Democrats. I wish.

Democrats have come very late to the party. They're rightly being accused of hypocrisy by Republicans who are like, you know, I see Democratic members talk about Epstein and then some Republican the replies says, You never said anything about Epstein until 2025. It's like, probably true, but I'm glad they're saying it now. At least they've realized the salience of this issue. But look, this was driven by Republicans. Trump cynically, you know, Trump, Vance and co,

they cynically use this to get their base out, to get their base worked up and enraged. And now they can't deliver on it, or they won't deliver on it. And I don't know. I mean, I'm torn on this one hand, there's enough anecdotal evidence to suggest parts of the base are still furious about this, are still angry at Trump,

have not let it go. But then the polling shows Trump hasn't really taken a dent at all in his approval ratings from his base. So I don't know. And you see people like Charlie Kirk and I see you've been mocking him online, being a very good boy and telling Donald Trump that I'll do, you know, I trust Trump. He told me not to talk about it. So I'm not talking about it. And Dinesh D'Souza and a bunch of others right-wing influencers, we trust the White House. Time to move on.

Now, whether the base moves on as well, I don't know. I mean, Marjorie Taylor Green is one person who has refused to move on, is still causing a bit of a stir on some of this stuff. But I think in general, like if I believe the Trump movement, the MAGA movement is a cult, which I do believe, then I have to also believe that they will fall along with this. I mean, I interviewed Mick Mulvaney recently. He did make a good point that, look, Donald Trump came out and said publicly a couple months back. Maga is what I say it is, right? And the Epstein story is a test of that claim, right? Because if he's right, then they will move on.

And Epstein is no longer a issue for the MAGA base. If he's wrong, then MAGA is beyond Trump. But they say, no, no, no, Epstein and Peterfile scandals and Q and QAnon is key to who we are. are. I do think, again, Democrats have to keep pushing this. The media still have to start asking questions. What the left and liberals don't seem to understand, which the right understands is these scandals, these controversies, this is not organic. This doesn't just happen spontaneously. You need people to be pushing it, right? Especially for the media. We often say, you and I will rightly say, oh, New York Times isn't covering this story. It's not on its front

page. But to be fair to New York Times, the New York Times needs kind of, quote, unquote, permission to do that. And the way they get permission to do that in our system is, they need a senior Democratic politician to hold a press conference and ask questions or hold a hearing in Congress. Then, I mean, you look at how Jim Jordan and James Comer, they give endless supply, endless oxygen to their insane conspiracy theory written. Yeah, Fox doesn't operate in isolation. It's all coordinated. And the Democrats don't understand that, but I see a lot of, especially on the blue skies, a lot of liberal Democratic parties, people say, oh, the media is just ignoring the story. And I'm not defending the media. I'm the last person to defend mainstream media. But you also have to

ask questions about the Democratic Party. If the leadership of the party is, you know, not pushing this at the same time, it allows the media to move on. So you do need your Chris Murphys and your Brian Shots as others to keep bringing this stuff up, not just Epstein, but the multiple other scandals that are going on. Right. You know, take one other scandal, you know, the plane from Qatar that he's now spending a billion secret dollars that they put in a budget when no one was looking to retrofit this plane that he's going to take with him into his private life. Like that, again, if the media doesn't cover that going forward, you still have to, again, I'm sorry, blame politicians. We need Democratic Party politicians talking about this all the time.

in every media hit they do, bringing up Trump's corruption, bringing up the examples of corruption saying, let's not move on. I can't believe we've moved on from January the 6th. That kills me. That should be the center of every Democrat who goes on television should begin every interview saying Donald Trump pardoned 1,600 criminals, 1,600 rioters, 600 of whom attacked police officers. That should just be something you say at the beginning of every interview. There is something we can learn from Donald Trump in terms of repetition of his message over and over and over again until it's seared in the cerebral cortexes of everybody who is listening. And he repeats this stuff so frequently that it has to be in the news

because that's what he's spoken about that day. I think there's this sense of like, okay, I want to treat my audience, you know, speak to my audience at the height of their intelligence and not repeat something I've already said to them. But the reality is that, first of all, most people aren't listening. And second of all, you have the ability as an elected official to drive the conversation and so use every opportunity, limited though they may be,

to drive the conversation in the way that you want it to be driven. And you're exactly right, this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's not just going to, I think there's this sense that, like, we can all wait for this to just stay in the news, but we have agency here. We're in charge of making sure that it stays in the news. By the way, quick point, Peter Mandelson, who was Tony Blair's main spin doctor, main advisor, helped create new labor, the three election victories in the 90s and 2000s. He had a line, which I put in my book about debate, he talked about repetition. you, as a politician, if you, only when you get bored yourself of saying your message, are you even halfway towards where you need to be in message?

Yeah, yeah. And it's a great point. I mean, how many times has Trump said, build the wall, lock her up, make America great again? There's a reason that we remember all of this stuff. There's a reason that people, even the people who have been duped, who have been gullible enough to fall for his bill of goods, that they think that's what he stands for is because he says it so many times. On the point of the media, we have seen, to switch topics here, we've seen,

Benjamin Netanyahu suggests that he's going to look into waging a defamation lawsuit against the New York Times for reporting about starvation in Gaza. Can I have your reaction to that? Good luck, is what I would say. Good luck with that. It's an insane position. It's interesting how many foreign politicians are now coming to sue people in the U.S. I know that Macron's are suing Candace Owens. The U.S. famously was a place where you couldn't sue people, right? The First Amendment. I come from the U.K., which is libel tourism home, right? That's where you go to sue people because the courts are very friendly to the plaintiffs, not to the defendants. In the US, it's supposed to defend a free press.

Let's see. Obviously, we've been seeing a very authoritarian attack on our free speech and on the First Amendment. Look, he's doing this to distract from what everyone knows, which is that the Israeli government is carrying out a genocide in Gaza. We just published a poll today, Brian, from Data for Progress, which shows that Americans by a 14-point margin say what is happening in Gaza is a genocide. This is no longer a debate.

The American public believes it's a genocide. the top genocide scholars in the world believe it's a genocide. The International Court of Justice continues to investigate Israel for a genocide. And the Israelis keep saying genocidal things. So good luck, Benjamin Netanyahu Su in the New York Times. That would be a great bit of discovery that goes on there. Although I would say they don't need to do any discovery. What's hidden in Netanyahu's emails that they haven't said publicly?

Every member of the Israeli government has said something genocidal at some point or another over the last year and a half. The heritage minister, Brian, said last week that we're going to take over Gaza and make it Jewish again. These are the words of the heritage minister last week. The settlements ministers, we don't care about the hostages. Not about the hostages. It's about taking back Gaza.

Benjamin Netanyahu himself has talked about the Palestinians being Amalek, which is biblical code for kill everyone, including the donkeys and the children. So the stuff from the Israeli government has been horrific. It is one of the great tragedies in American history and one of the great stains on both our political parties that two presidents, Joe Biden and Donald Trump, gave Benjamin Netanyahu pretty much everything he wanted.

And Biden did that disastrous hug him, close strategy. We hug Beebe, and then he'll do what we want him to do. He did not. In fact, Benjamin Netanyahu used Biden, got everything he wanted out of Biden, $17 billion of weapons. And then he opened, he just waited down the clock to get Trump to get even more from Trump. And by the way, Donald Trump was asked yesterday, what do you make of Benjamin Netanyahu's plan to take over the entire Gaza Strip? And he said, well, it's up to Israel to do what they want to do. No, it's not. We fund Israel. We fund Israel. We have a right to say no. You know, that that strategy of hugging these politicians in hopes that they'll reciprocate this goodwill is a recurring theme in the Democratic Party.

I mean, it's what we so often do to confer goodwill onto the other side and maybe they'll reciprocate. I'm curious what your... Chuck Schumer does it in the Senate. Yeah. I'm curious what your reaction was to, you know, the Bernie Sanders Amendment blocking arm sales to Israel garnered, I think, record support among the Democratic. caucus in the Senate. Still obviously not enough to pass, but some of these even long-time pro-Israel Hawks decided to vote in favor of that amendment. Can I have your reaction to that? I was stunned. I was actually in a debate which our mutual friend Tommy Vita was moderating

on Crooked with Jeremy Ben Ami, the head of J Street, the liberal Zionist group. And Jeremy was saying, look, look, Democrats are shifting. And I was like, there's not going to be a majority. And to be fair to Jeremy, they did get a majority of Senate Democrats for one or two of the bills. Remember, there were two votes, Brown. One was on offensive weapons and bombs. The other one was on assault rifles. And some people like Ossov, I think, voted on rifles, yes, but not on bombs. But anyways, it was symbolically an important vote. Is it as many as I would like to see? No. By the way, we should remind everyone, every single Republican voter who was there. Every single Republican senator present voted to send arms to Israel. I have been very critical of the Democratic

Party's record on Gaza, on Israel. On Netanyahu, you heard me just criticized Joe Biden. Having said that, never forget the Republicans are worse. And we see that in these votes. at least some Democrats in the House and Senate are willing to take a stand for human rights, for justice. For American law, Brian, I should remind everyone, sending arms to Israel right now is a violation of two separate U.S. laws, the Leahy law, which senator, the former senator from Vermont, Patrick Leahy passed, which means you can't send weapons, American weapons, to a military that's clearly involved in human rights abuses. That's the Lehi law. The other law is the Foreign Assistance Act, which says you can't send weapons to a country that is blocking American aid,

which again, Israel is doing in Gaza. So I would, would like to see every Senate Democrat come out and vote against these weapons. Sadly, the likes of Cory Booker just won't do it. John Fetterman has become this kind of pro-genocide ghoul who some of us are counting down the clock to be primary. Sadly, he's got a lot more years in the Senate. Never has there been a bigger bait and switch, a bigger fraud, a bigger liar in the Democratic Party than John Federman. I'm ashamed to say. I supported John Federman's Senate candidacy and Senate run. I defended him against Republican attacks on his health after he was elected to the Senate and here he is cheering on a genocide happily every day. So I think there are a lot

of Senate Democrats who still behave in a shameful way. But I'm glad many of them are following Bernie's lead and credit to Bernie Sanders for leading on this issue for the last decade. But not a single Republican. Not a single in the House, Thomas Massey, yes. Marjorie Taylor Green amazingly came out on the right side of something for once. But in the Senate, not a single one. They're all pro-genocide in the Republican Senate. Medi, it's clear where Joe Biden stood on this issue. And so Democrats don't have a ton of political capital here. Prior to the 2024 election, there was this, or during the 2024 election,

there was this sea change, especially among Muslim Americans who had voted, you know, historically Democratic, who moved over to Donald Trump. Because of, because of, as a response to the way that Joe Biden comported himself with Benjamin Netanyahu. I'm curious how, how, how, like, where do we stand right now? Because obviously, obviously Biden didn't build up any political capital with that community. What Trump is doing, I think we can all see is, is to the endth degree falling off the cliff worse. And so where is this, is this a community without a home? Like, how are you thinking about this in light of, in light of the move for that community in the 2024 election? And then

these new developments, which are just so, I mean, you know, this, this relative to the Biden administration, you know, this is a whole different animal here. It's a good question. We should just be clear that it was the Muslim community. It was young Jewish anti-Zionists. It was progressives. It was people of color. It was black pastors in Georgia, hundreds of whom wrote to Biden saying, we can't get our congregations to vote for Democratic Party if you carry on this genocide. It was a bunch of different people across the board who came out and said, we cannot do this. We can't, we can't hold our nose and vote for a party that supports genocide. And that was a completely understandable position. I made that argument. You and I discussed it before the election. I said

it very clearly. I said, I think Trump is worse than Harris, but I totally understand. I would never berate someone to say, well, somebody in Michigan who's lost 20 members of their family in Lebanon or Palestine, say, well, you've got to vote for the party that just helped Israel do that. Yeah, I totally understand why people stayed at Hungom or held their noses or voted for Jill Stone or even voted for Trump. Trump, I think, got one in four Muslim votes or more, depending on which poll you look at. It's funny you mention historically democratic, because if you go back to 2000, Brian, in 2000, George W. Bush won a majority of the Muslim vote, right? And then Iraq happened and 9-11 happened and the Democrats never looked back. I'm sorry,

the Muslims never looked back. Muslim Americans all went to the Democratic vote, 80-20. It switched from 80-20 Republican Democrats, 80-20 Democrat, and now I worry that the Gaza issue, Biden handled it so badly, and Harris refused to disown Biden, refused. to distance herself. She had so much goodwill from that community and then refused to budge an inch on Gaza policy. And I hope it's not a long-term sea change effect. I do hope that people can see what's happening to what Trump is doing is a complete betrayal of everything. He went to Dearborn Michigan, the home of Arab America Trump, and he said, I am peace. Kamala votes with Liz Cheney. She's campaigning with his Cheney. She'll take you into endless wars. I'll bring

back our troops. And then what did Donald Trump do became the first American president to bomb Iran? on behalf of Benjamin Netanyo, something even George Bush didn't do. He's obviously given Benjamin Netanyar who can't blanche to ethnically cleanse Gaza. He's presided over the worst famine we've seen. So clearly he was not better for Palestinian, so I hope people can see that. But look, people are not stupid anymore, whether you're Muslim, Jewish, Christian, atheists, whatever, whatever background you are, people, to go back to the start of our conversation about, you know, Mandani types, walking the both sides, people want delivery.

People want to see that you're acting on your words. You're not just making promises in the air. We can have lots of Democrats say all sorts of things now about, oh, we support this and we support that. What are you going to do when you have power, when you get back control of the Senate or House? When you get back control of the wife. Is the next presidential candidate going to say that, you know what? No more forever wars in the Middle East. I'm going to take that line back from the Republican Party that stole it and never meant it.

Are they going to say no blank checks for Benjamin Netanyahu and his fascist in Israel? That's going to be a question in 2028. people like Rokane are almost certainly going to run for president. And they're going to put this issue on the table, even if the other, even if the Newsoms and Pritzkis and Whitmers want to run away for this issue and be like, we want to talk about kitchen table issues. There are going to be people bringing this issue up. Let's just be very clear about that. Gaza will not disappear come 2028.

It's just too major an issue. And I just think Democrats are going to have to think long and hard, not just about reckoning with Biden's awful record, but what they do now going forward, what promises and pledges and action plans they can make to change our horrific foreign policy, which most Americans don't support, whether they're on the right or the left. Let's finish off with this. In light of what we're seeing at the hands of Trump's FCC, at the hands of Trump himself,

as it relates to all of these media companies, the way that he's leaned on ABC News, to see them capitulate, leaned on Paramount and CBS, to see them capitulate, leaned on the Washington Post, the LA Times. I mean, outlet after outlet after outlet, all of whom had said, you know, been so quick to hide behind these slogans

of democracy dies and darkness when it wasn't challenged. But the moment that it does get challenged, they all fall immediately and start heaping millions of dollars to Donald Trump, heaping him positive coverage, whatever it may be. And so how are you looking at Ziteo's place in this ecosystem in light of what we're now seeing is a pretty feckless, a pretty castrated media ecosystem from all of these legacy outlets? To borrow a line, if Zateo didn't exist, we'd have to invent it.

I mean, I'm thinking back now. I created this company over a year ago. But let's say I hadn't. I'd be creating it right now because I may have created it a year ago, but never have we needed independent journalism, not just a table, what you do, what others do. We need this more than ever before because in the last few months, we have seen the American media,

and I didn't think it was possible to be even more craven, even more of a letdown, even more of a rollover, even more complicit in authoritarianism than we see. The last six months have been a horror show for, I mean, I mean, we're speaking, Brian, on the week where the CEO of one of the world's most powerful tech companies went into the White House with a 24-carat gold gift for Donald Trump and then gave a speech in which he bathed Trump with sycophantic praise.

Tim Cook of Apple, the man who's name Trump can't even remember, called him Tim Apple. Tim Cook went into the White House and this billionaire CEO of Apple stood in front of the cameras and assembled some weird plaque or prize for Trump and then gave it to the president. This is where we are. This is North Korea style moment that we're in. And I just think to myself, Apple and Bezos on the Washington Post and all of these. Now David Ellison, son of Larry Ellison, who was part of all the election denial meetings in the White House with Donald Trump back in 2020 allegedly. David Ellison is now owning CBS and Paramount. Like this is where we are now. We We always talk about corporate-owned media, but this is worse than just corporate-owned media.

This is corporate-owned media where the corporations are run by complete weaklings or cowards or pro-Trump fascists. And this is the world we're in right now. So, yes, we do need independent journalism. I would urge everyone watching to get behind independent media because, unfortunately, our corporate-owned media has let us down far too much in recent months. You even look at the Smithsonian, which was literally rewriting history in deference to Trump. All of these once revered institutions are actually just betraying how weak and willing to capitulate they really are.

But the annoying thing, Brian, is like the Smithsonian, you can even make a case for that. Okay, it is weak, right? It is scared of the government. There will be consequences if they try and stand up to Trump. In a sense, as much as they are cowards, I kind of get the cowardice. What I can't forgive is the cooks and Bezos of this world. What is the people who have all the money in the world? As the phrase goes, Brian, what is the point of having fuck you money if you don't say,

fuck you, right? Why be a billionate? Why be the second richest man in the history of the world, Jeff Bezos, but run to the inauguration and stand and heap praise on Trump and wreck the Washington Post, which, you know, it's just so depressing to watch and so infuriating and so unforgivable. Well, look, you have been, I think there's nobody who doubts the fact that you have been absolutely fearless in speaking out. I highly recommend for everybody who's watching right now. If you're watching on YouTube, please make sure to go subscribe to Zateo's YouTube channel. I'm going to put the link right here on the screen and also in the post description. If you're listening on the podcast, it'll be in the show notes.

Please help support build up independent progressive media. Very important. It does not cost anything to go subscribe to the YouTube channel, but it helps elevate voices like Medi's, which are so needed right now. Medi, as always, I appreciate the time. Thanks, Brian. Thanks again to J.B. Pritzker, Jasmine Crockett, Robert Garcia, and Medi Hassan. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week.

You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, Music by Wellesie, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating in a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels,

or you can go to Briantellercoen.com to learn more.