No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Ron DeSantis finally goes too far with fatal mistake

Episode Date: July 23, 2023

Ron DeSantis goes off the deep end with a defense of slavery. And Brian interviews the first Gen Z member of Congress, Maxwell Alejandro Frost, about his response to Ron DeSantis’ flailing campaign, the fact that home insurers are now pulling out of Florida due to climate change, what messaging is most effective among young voters, and of course: Barbie or Oppenheimer. Donate to the "Don't Be A Mitch" fund: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dontbeamitchShop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we're going to talk about the right going fully off the deep end with the defense of slavery. And I interview the first Gen Z member of Congress, Maxwell Alejandro Frost, about his response to Ron DeSantis' flailing presidential campaign. The fact that home insurers are now pulling out of Florida due to climate change, what messaging is the most effective among young voters? And of course, Barbie or Oppenheimer. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. Okay, so the Florida Board of Education approved new rules for teaching black history and public schools, including updated standards that now suggests that enslaved people, quote, developed skills that could be applied for their personal benefit. And of course, this is being universally condemned. The teachers

union there called it a big step backwards. Vice President Kamala Harris said that Florida Republicans were pushing revisionist history. And obviously the goal here for Republicans is to continue this project of dehumanizing people of color and whitewashing history. Like the same conservative movement that perpetuated slavery is now concocting ways to do. justify it so many years later, which, by the way, is especially ironic considering these people love congratulating themselves for being the party of Lincoln, right? The party that freed the slaves only to now fall over themselves figuring out ways to defend it in case you were wondering how they really felt behind the self-righteousness. But I would argue that just as bad

is that when asked about it, Ron DeSantis actually defends it. Here's what he said. But I think what they're doing is I think that they're probably going to show some of the folks that eventually parlayed, you know, being a blacksmith into, into doing things later in life. But the reality is all of that is rooted in whatever is factual. They listed everything out. And if you have any questions about it, just ask the Department of Education. You can talk about those folks. But, I mean, these were scholars who put that together. It was not anything that was done politically. Yeah, great, huh? You can parlay being a slave into being a blacksmith. I mean, God, this guy is such a piece of shit. And look, I really, really don't think that we need to sit here

and explain why slavery did not benefit slaves. I hope to God that we are not regressing that much that I need to have that conversation. Or at least I can find solace in the fact that I don't need to have that conversation with my audience. So let's just move forward with the assumption that this is a disgusting and indefensible position because it is. But what I think is telling is that this is the natural conclusion of a party that can't admit fault. Like, Republicans are so bought in on this Trumpian strategy of never admitting fault, no matter how bad the offense, that here they are, in July of 2023, pretending that actual slavery was good because, God forbid, someone says,

whoops, yeah, this is a shitty take, we fucked up, sorry. Instead, they just yes and it, right? All because they think that any backtrack, even on the worst things you could possibly imagine is a display of weakness. And if we know anything about Republicans, it's that they absolutely cannot look weak. These people are alphas. And the way that you know their alphas is because they'll tell you at every waking opportunity. And look, I really don't want to get too deep into this right-wing rabbit hole of their weird, fascist obsession with masculinity and toughness. But I will just offer this. What you're witnessing is insecurity wrapped in a facade of

masculinity. For the Ron DeSantis of the world, if you are secure in your manhood, you shouldn't need to strong arm your critics into silence. You shouldn't need to ban the acknowledgement of the existence of LGBT Americans in the classroom. You shouldn't need to bully your students into taking off their masks during COVID, which is what DeSantis did before one of his press conferences. You shouldn't need to stop kids from learning history or reading books written by black authors. But the reason that DeSantis and other authoritarian do it isn't because they're tough, it is precisely the opposite. It's because they're not. They're weak and scared and insecure. They can't win in the battle of ideas, so they have to issue edicts instead, right? They rule by force

because they're not able to convince anyone through their words. And look, I'm highlighting Ronda Santos here, but this phenomenon certainly isn't isolated to Ronda Santos. All of the big names in the Republican Party in Republican politics are following the same fascist playbook, and they're doing it for the same reason. Their ideas aren't popular, and so they have to issue woefully unpopular edicts, But then they pass those off as being strong. This is them being strong. But again, it is not strength to mandate laws and ideas that 70% of Americans hate. It's not strength to ban abortions.

It's not strength to vilify LGBT Americans. It's not strength to ban books. And certainly isn't strength to defend slavery. If their ideas were popular, they wouldn't need to pass laws under the cloak of darkness to defend them. But they're not. And so here we are. Next up is my interview with Maxwell Alejandro Frost. Now we've got the first Gen Z member of Congress, Maxwell Alejandro Frost.

Thanks so much for taking the time. Of course. Thank you so much for having me. So let's start in your home state of Florida. Rhonda DeSantis's Department of Education will now teach students that some black people benefited from slavery because it taught them useful skills. Now, as a Floridian, as a former public school student and as a person of color, what's your reaction to this move? I mean, it really showcases what we've been trying to say for years. here in the state of Florida. This governor in his entire apparatus, not only do they want to

erase history, and specifically black history, which is American history, but they want to rewrite it. And they want to write it in a way that almost kind of gives a pass and praise to white supremacy because they want to change the way future generations think about the world and think about what white supremacy is because it is so important to their far right-wing fascist movement. And that is what's going on here in the state of Florida. They saw that last year in the midterms, Gen Z, over 70% of us vote Democrats because we want action on the climate crisis, gun violence, and want our rights to protect it. The right wing, they're wising up to it. And now they want to change schooling so they can change the generation.

But I think little do they know and that they'll come to find out, it's not doing anything to help them. It's actually just pissing young people off. Well, that's the thing. Like, if this is a 15-year strategy, isn't that going to, isn't that going to redound, like, to their disadvantage in the 15 years until that actually bears itself out? Like, people are in school right now. They can recognize what's happening. People in your generation, people who are students in high school right now, they all know the truth.

And so isn't this just pissing them off more than it's more than it's going to help them 15 years down the line when this actually bears itself out? 110%. You know, like one of the things that the Republican Party has done a good job of is creating long-term plans and waiting and seeing them out to fruition, right? We saw it happen with abortion rights. We saw it happen with the state legislatures. And I think as Democrats, we have something to learn there on long-term planning. However, when it comes down to young voters, they will use that plan, right? Well, let's make a long-term plan to change young people in this country.

But what they don't understand is we're pretty impatient as a generation for better or worse, right? Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's not good. But I think part of what that creates is a situation where we're going to want to see a lot of change in a small amount of time, which I agree with. We need transformational change in this country. However, as they begin to implement this long-term plan to change the way an entire generation thinks by changing their schooling, I think it's really going to backfire because they've

never dealt with Gen Z before, right, in this way. And I think they're going to really find out. And it's not just Gen Z. It's young millennials. It's the future generations coming after Gen Z. More and more, these younger generations are becoming more and more progressive, and they're staying progressive throughout their life. And I think it's really going to change politics in this country.

We as Democrats have to ensure that we're ready for it. The strength of the movement isn't once in TV or when everyone cares. It's when no one cares when it's talking about it. What are you doing on the ground? And that's how you build. So when you have these peak moments, and sometimes the peak moments are unfortunate moments, right? You have things like shootings that happen.

that bring people into a movement you have the trauma to bring to people who brings people to a movement but then also you have hope and when those things are there um what are we going to do to give young people a political home we can't take it for granted now ron desantis has also floated the idea of suing bud light um i'm not exactly sure why but the general rule of thumb with desantis is something something too woke uh is that what's finally going to save his flailing presidential campaign do you think you know i don't know what it's what's going to save it looks like he's had about i think it's three or four uh you know new starts or reboots to the campaign so i mean maybe when we're on the eighth reboot will he'll

be suing uh you know some other company and here's the thing i don't have problems with our leaders going after corporations for the right reasons right but these aren't the right reasons he's going after people because they're showing solidarity with a protected class or queer community or LGBTQ plus community, which is horrible in of itself. But I want to take a step back. It's not just, oh, I disagree with him because he's a Republican. He's an authoritarian figure abusing his power to subvert democracy to consolidate power. There's a word for that. It's fascism. I'm glad more people are talking about it because it's important. I'm not trying to fearmonger. It's not hyperbole. I'm just trying to define because it is scary. And look, even though things are grim for DeSantis right now in this

race, he'll be back, right? And maybe it won't be him. Maybe it's a different iteration of Donald Trump around DeSantis. And so we have to play close attention to this and not be scared and run away, but amp up our organizing to fight against it. But whether it's Bud Light or Disney or whatever is next, you know, I think what DeSantis and with the right wing, what they benefit from, and they've done this forever, creating a situation that doesn't exist, crowning themselves the protagonist or the hero in the story, and then telling their voters, give me more power and I'll deal with it. it used to be gay marriage now it's like taboo to kind of speak against that because we've evolved as a country so now they're you know they wanted to find other ways to get to it now it's trans

people and bathrooms and chance existence in general so they're bringing up this issue that really no one talks about as far as bathrooms are concerned and he's saying yeah yeah let me deal with this horrible issue your kids are at risk and if you give me the power i'll do it then we see he's doing a lot more with the power than handling the issues that he's created yeah these always need to find boogeyman. They've done it for generations, and they will continue doing it right now. I want to move over to the issue of climate change.

AAA and farmers have pulled out of Florida and won't offer coverage in the state. That's how dire the climate situation has become. Is there any acknowledgement from your Republican colleagues that pretending climate change wasn't real was a terrible move? Because massive insurance companies don't make decisions to pander.

They're not being activists. They're just doing it because it's no longer profitable. They only think in dollars and cents. They don't care about the politics. They care about the money. 110%. 110%. I haven't seen any, you know, changing of the Republican Party.

And when I say Republican Party, I'm talking about the leaders on the climate crisis. They're going to continue to find ways to not admit fault, right? That's like the first thing they can never admit fault because it really hits their credibility. And so they'll find other ways to talk about these issues that are going on. And you're 100% right. It's interesting. You know, corporations have really been in our. some of the worst actors as far as the climate crisis is concerned. But at the end of the day,

they're protecting the bottom line. And if it looks like, because of the climate crisis, that it doesn't make sense to ensure people in a state because they're making less money, they're going to leave and they won't, you know, care about the people left behind. And unfortunately, we have leaders who won't connect those dots, right? He's not going to connect those dots. He called them woke. He told the people of our state, you know, because there were questions. What are we going to do? Hurricane season's coming up. We just had Hurricane Ian last year that decimated like two cities. So what's the plan? And you know what he said? He said, knock on wood, there isn't a hurricane. And then he called the company's woke and he moved on because

he's running for president. And that's the leadership we have in the state. And again, it's not, this isn't about, oh, I don't like him because he's a Republican. I mean, we can have that conversation too. But it's about he's not even being a leader, right? He's not even doing what we need to do to get ready for these storms coming up. And actually, these storms have always been a place of bipartisanship, at least in our state, right? No matter what the storm is, you always saw Democrats and Republicans coming together to figure out how do we prepare for it and how do we handle the repercussions after. Unfortunately, he doesn't even want to work with anyone on that alone. So yes, knock on what there isn't a storm because our leaders aren't doing

anything about it. We're doing what we can in Congress. We're, you know, we're going to be knocking doors, doing hurricane preparedness canvases and doing what we can. But let's be clear, the governor of this state, the buck stops with him on hurricane preparedness. He has resources at his disposal, and he's not doing anything about it. Moving over to yet another issue, I would imagine that a big part of the reason that Republicans in Congress don't feel any pressure to pass gun safety legislation is because they're surrounded by people who haven't been in school in decades. So do you think that you're being in Congress? Congress and other young representatives being there will have any impact like that they'll have to look at people like you in the face and still have to vote against this stuff or am I just imbuing them with a sense of humanity that they just don't have you know yes yes part is yes I mean having younger people in Congress changing the composition of Congress is a good thing right and and it is because we get to speak with our colleagues even though the no part is I don't think that

them looking us in the face is, you know, going to change their vote. Their mind is on their re-election. Their mind is on the pressure they'll get from their party. You know, some of them lack humanity. Some of them are just cowards. Some of them don't care. And so, you know, it's different for everyone. So I don't think them looking at us in the face is going to change that. I mean, the reason I say that is because, you know, I come from the gun violence movement. And so for me, if the murder of people in schools, children in schools, doesn't change the way you think about a situation. Right. What will? Yeah, what will.

And so that's why I'm actually pretty heavy on, you know, elections and giving us the opportunity to change what Congress looks like. I'm all about changing the hearts and minds of the politicians once they get in office. But I find it a hell of a lot easier to just, you know, work to kick them out. So, and get better people in there. And that's what we need. You know, I was just speaking to a group of young people about Congress and someone brought up, it seems like it's hard to change things. It's like impossible.

It's so out of reach. And I was telling them about how we vote. And you know, how we vote. We have a card and we walk up to this machine. It's behind every seat. We put the card in there. We click yes, no, or present. And sometimes when I'm voting, I'll just look around and I'll look at the board and say,

wow, you know, 10, 10 more buttons. And we save, you know, of DEI in schools, you know, 50 less buttons and we could have stopped this horrible thing from happening, you know, 80 more buttons and everyone has health care. And I love thinking about it that way because that's what it is. It's people pressing buttons that impact our life. And I feel like when you bring it down to that level, I can do something about that. You know what I mean? We can do something about changing the people who represent us. And so I always try to bring it down for people. It seems out of reach and in a lot of ways it is.

but we do have a great opportunity to change it. And it's going to take time, but I'm here for it. And by the way, like we've endured some really far right houses and to think of the difference between some of these houses that we've had in the very recent past versus the Congress that we just had in the Democratic-controlled Congress where we passed the American Rescue Plan and the Inflation Reduction Act and the Pact Act and the Chips Act and the Gun Safety Bill and the infrastructure package.

I mean, when you realize what we can do just with, know one or two elections time it really does kind of put this into perspective that a lot of this stuff is super achievable and it is just a matter of finding you know switching out a few people here and just a few buttons to your point and and we can accomplish a lot so we are recording this on friday as of this recording a trump has not yet been indicted in the january 6th case but we expect that it could happen any day now if not by the time people are actually watching this and listening to this can i have your reaction to what would be trump's third indictment and the fact that your colleagues are still falling over themselves to defend the guy i mean he's making history

the bad kind of history um you know i'll say i i don't have much the comment on this besides like let's you know see how the legal system plays out um it is important that when people break the law they're held accountable and especially with our leaders you know our country has a long history of criminalizing people because of the color of the skin or how much money they have in the bank and a long history of rich white men getting away with it. And when you look at someone who did incite an almost insurrection on our nation's capital, there has to be accountability or else it gives a pass to the future. And it gives a pass to the future people who might want to do a similar thing. And because the far right wing, you know, neo-fascist movement is growing so

quickly in this country we need to do everything we can to stop it accountability as part of that so we'll you know respect the system there and we'll see how plays out it's incredibly sad whether you're democrat or republican you know you shouldn't be hopping up to defend someone who blatantly broke the law and challenge the integrity of our country you know we need to stand together as a country here and do what's right for the people now it's right for the party you know is there any acknowledgement maybe behind the scenes from these republicans that they are sticking their necks out for a guy on arguably one of the least popular issues there is. January 6 doesn't exactly pull well.

So is there any recognition that they're basically tying themselves to someone who will likely be a four-time convicted felon by the time the election actually rolls around? I think it shows that the Republican Party is in deep trouble. You know, they are being completely taken over by, again, far-right neo-fascist, you know,

part of their party, what, you know, maybe it makes up 30 to 40% of the party of the true believers but it you know that number almost doesn't matter because when the other you know 50 60 percent enable it it's just as bad and that's what's going on in congress right now with there are moderate republicans in congress but you wouldn't know it if you look at the voting because they're voting the same way as the freedom caucus because they're you know either scared or they don't care or whatever it's a different reason for everybody and i think it's important to know that and we're seeing the same thing with the republican party

have some people sticking their neck out. I have respect for people who, you know, walk the different direction from the rest of the crowd. And all those, all the people running for president on the Republican side, by the way, are not good people who have done horrible things to this country. But, you know, you look at someone like Chris Christie who's just giving it the Trump. And I think he really is trying to save his party. I don't like Chris Christie at all, to be clear. But you have a few people in their neck out. But other than that, I think you're going to see Donald Trump become the primary candidate for the Republicans. I think he's going to lose. I think he might cost them. I think we're going to take back the House. And I think he might cost

them the Senate. And let's be clear, our Senate map is hard. We have a hard job next year. And it's difficult. But I see this light at the end of the tunnel because it's just craziness on their side. And I think that craziness is going to backfire. Okay. So let's look ahead. You know, we've got a lot of messaging heading into 2024. And obviously, different messaging. works on different demographics, what have you found is the most effective message to turn out young voters, like Gen Zs like you and millennials like me? Yeah, well, obviously, I always hesitate to speak for the whole generation, but I think what the numbers tell us is pretty simple, like young people, this generation is the most

progressive generation we've seen in the history of our country. They want healthcare for everyone, you know, housing, ending gun violence, ensuring that money is going to our communities and we have equity in the system. And that gives me so much hope. You know, I remember I was on a March for, I used to be the organizing director for March for Our Lives, the movement that came at the shooting that happened in Parkland. And I remember I'm on a call, like explaining an event, someone unmuted. It's like one of our youngest volunteers.

I think she was like 13, 12, and started asking me questions about how people with this specific disability would be able to access the event or if you didn't have a certain type of internet, how could you access? And I just remember thinking, I wasn't thinking like that at 13. And I'm Gen Z. And that gives me so much hope. it's not about guilting people right it's not about making things harder for society but it's about making things equitable for everybody and this younger generation most i speak with they want

everyone to do well and you know we've we've our country has really grown up with this scarcity mindset because our country was birthed out of revolution and when you come out of revolution like that scarcity is a thing when now we have abundance and i think our country is in this tug of war with what kind of thought process do we want when we sit at the table to make decisions? Is it if I'm getting something, you must be losing something and vice versa, which is the scarcity mindset? Or is it we have enough for all of us to have what we need to live our life? And even though that might sound like a radical thing to say, it's not.

And especially because I really believe that most of this generation is in line with that, even if they have different, you know, they're different on the ideological spectrum. And that gives me hope. So talking about the issues, not focusing on what we're against, but focusing on what we're for, talking about the bold solutions. I think that helps us win. Bold Progressive Solutions, that's what gets young people excited. And look, you can always say, it's going to take us time, but I want you to know, this is the North Star. This is where I believe our country should be.

And we're going to get there when we work together. And that mentality of, it's, yeah, I always tell people in my district, yes, I work for you, but more importantly, I work with you. And when you work with someone, it creates that team, the team work that you need to make the difference. And I think young people just want to be a part of the team. I think this scarcity mindset point is so important. And it especially presents itself in the student loan debt cancellation argument because Republicans are saying, well, they can't get student loan debt even with these predatory rates. And even though it's kind of dragging down an entire generation, we don't want that to happen because we had to pay our loans. And like, when you really think about it from a different perspective, it's like, wouldn't

imagine what it'll be like if an entire generation of people is allowed to participate in the economy, is allowed to spend their money in restaurants and stores and on vacations and in hotels and like, you know, travel destinations. Like, doesn't that benefit everyone? Won't even the people who are complaining about this? Well, they see some benefit when the economy gets such a, such a boon to it by virtue of all these people in infusing their money in? to it like doesn't that help the stock market won't that help your 401k like we have to think about

this stuff from a different perspective it's not always about this idea of like of like you know somebody else's gain is to my detriment and i think that's what's missing out of uh you're a hundred percent right and the student low debt you know i made this point on the floor um a few months ago when we were voting on vetoing um president biden's action on it thank god that failed but the but the uh what the point i made was this argument of because I paid mine off, you should have to do it too. It's just not how we legislate. Like, why would we use that logic on, you know, we cherry pick the issues they want to use that logic on. It's basically saying keep things bad because I had to suffer and so everybody else

should too. It's like if there's a cancer treatment that just got released, it's like, well, I had to suffer through cancer, so nobody else should be treated. Exactly. It's just not, it's not how we legislate. That's not the logic we use. If that was a lot, I mean, you know, I wouldn't be able to vote, right? You know, and so either way, it's just, it's, and we have to call it out for what it is. It's really a kind of bigoted logic that's really seep in the scarcity mindset. And in fact, when I said bigoted logic on the floor, Virginia Fox, you know, was working to have my words taken down.

She was so offended about it, but it's true, you know, we want to talk about progress. How are we going to do better? And the case in student loan debt, young, this young generations are in debt, not because they live beyond their means, but because they've been denied the means to live. And we understand that the cancellation of student debt is a Band-Aid, of course. But we're bleeding. We need the Band-Aid. And then let's talk about how we create a society where we don't need to do as many Band-Aids. I agree. It's a lot of money for our government to shell out, but it is necessary and required in this moment. And then we talk about how we make sure we never need to

take out that Band-Aid again. That's how progress works. Exactly. You're 26. in a body where I believe the average age is 102. I think that's the number that we're dealing with here. It might be 101. 101, yeah. What is it like being on the house floor? What's it like being in the gym there? I guess what's it like being surrounded by colleagues who are so much older than you?

Yeah. Well, I'm flattered. Do you think I go to the gym? So thank you. I don't. But, you know, on the house floor is interesting. And, you know, I will say, you know, I made the headlines as the first Gen Z member.

This class, though, this Democratic class is the most diverse Democratic class in modern history. It is also the youngest Democratic class in modern history. A lot of my classmates are pretty close to my age, early 30s, later 30s. I mean, if you're under your 50s in Congress, that is considered very young. If you're in your 30s in Congress, you're considered like a child. I'm considered like a fetus. So I'm like the very, very young. But either way, I have a lot of friends who are super young in Congress that, you know,

we're building this movement of younger people getting elected. And there is a lot of solidarity with older folks, too. I think oftentimes you like to look at things in a very binary way. If you're old, you're not advocating for young people. I've been pleasantly surprised with some of the older folks there who all they do is talk about the children and talk about future generations. And they're in this fight with us, too. so it really is a multiracial cross-generational movement of people we just need more it's not that our

numbers aren't there yet to pass the bold legislation that we need right right now and i think we have a great opportunity to change that yeah i mean if you look at some of the the older folks i mean senator markey senator sander senator warren like these aren't uh young bucks exactly but uh but obviously one of the most progressive or some of the most progressive members of uh of the senate just onto themselves. Okay, let's finish off with this. What I think is the most important issue of the moment, and that is Barbie or Oppenheimer? I just, I saw Barbie last night with my girlfriend, just on the theaters. So I would say Barbie. I haven't seen Oppenheimer yet, but, you know, I need to watch it soon. All right. All right. Well, Congressman, thank you so much for taking

the time. I appreciate it. Of course. Thanks for having me on. Thanks again to Maxwell. Okay. That's it for the episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, interviews captured and edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nicholas Nicotera, and recorded in Los Angeles, California. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app. Feel free to leave a five-star rating and a review, and check out Brian Tyler Cohen.com for links to all of my other channels.