No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Texas abortion case stuns the nation

Episode Date: December 10, 2023

A dangerous abortion case is playing out in Texas that is certain to impact the 2024 election. Brian interviews Governor Gavin Newsom about his recent debate with Ron DeSantis, his thoughts on Sean Hannity’s obvious lack of impartiality, and how Fox News viewers reacted to it.Donate to the "Don't Be A Mitch" fund: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dontbeamitchShop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we're going to talk about a dangerous case playing out in Texas that will 100% impact the 2024 election. And I interview Governor Gavin Newsom about his recent debate with Ron DeSantis, his thoughts on Sean Hannity's obvious lack of impartiality, and how Fox News viewers reacted to it. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. There's something jaw-dropping happening in Texas that isn't getting the coverage it deserves. There is a young woman named Kate Cox, she's 31 years old, whose 20-week-old fetus has. trisomy 18, which is a fatal genetic condition that'll mean her child won't live more than a few days outside of the womb. According to the lawsuit, the pregnancy also puts her at risk for severe complications threatening her life and future fertility, including uterine, rupture, and

hysterectomy. So she's seeking an exemption in court from the state's abortion ban, which does have narrow exceptions, only to save the life or prevent substantial harm to the patient. But the language is so vague and the threat of prosecution so extreme that in the first nine months of this year, Texas recorded all of 34 abortions across the entire state. Back in 2020, before these restrictions were in place, there were more than 50,000. And so it might seem obvious that Ms. Cox is a prime candidate for that exception, and she was granted it by a district court judge in Travis County, who issued a temporary restraining order to allow her doctor to perform the abortion without facing civil or criminal penalties. The judge said in her ruling that, quote,

the idea that Ms. Cox wants desperately to be pregnant and this law might actually cause her to lose that ability is shocking and would be a genuine miscarriage of justice. And so this is pretty cut and dry, right? She's carrying a non-viable fetus, continuing to do so won't make it more likely that you'll have a baby that will survive, but it will endanger her ability to have a viable pregnancy in the future and it puts her own health at risk. But Texas's far-right Attorney General, that's Ken Paxton, who only just recently survived an impeachment effort from his own party.

That's the same Ken Paxton, by the way, who used his office to file a lawsuit seeking to overturn the election results in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and Michigan, that Ken Paxton. He appealed the ruling to the Texas Supreme Court, which on Friday halted the lower court's ruling so it could have more time to issue a final ruling.

Ken Paxton also warned both Ms. Cox's husband that he could be sued for helping his wife obtain an abortion under Texas's bounty law, and he warned the hospitals that they could be sued for performing the abortion, also under Texas's bounty law. Paxton wrote in his appeal, quote, Nothing can restore the unborn child's life that would be lost as a result. And he wrote that completely unwilling to acknowledge the reality

that the child's life will likely already be lost because the fetus has a fatal genetic condition. And so now we're in this limbo where this poor woman who is carrying a non-viable fetus is fighting for her life, literally fighting for her life. And this partisan hack of an attorney general has single-term her out and threaten prosecution if she dares have agency over her own body. And let's be clear, this isn't just about Kate Cox because there are tens of thousands of other women across the state who are seeing this play out and who are watching these

Republican officials throw the full weight of their offices behind these threats. And so that'll create a chilling effect where women who don't have the means or even the willingness to defend themselves in court or, you know, to fly to a different state will have to put themselves in danger to carry what may very well be a dangerous pregnancy to term. or just as valid to have a child when they're not ready to have a child, all at the hands of a political party that has the audacity to call itself the party of freedom. And so I know this is hard to hear. This is one of those stories that legitimately makes me sick,

but it's important to hear because this is the manifestation of Republican rule. It doesn't get much clearer than this. If they have power, this is what will happen. I mean, where they have power right now, this is already happening. We're already here. This is the dystopian future that all of us Democrats warned about while Republicans told us not to be hysterical. It took not decades, but months

before the worst-case scenarios in these states started playing out. Fucking bounty laws to put $10,000 price tags on the heads of those who help a woman get an abortion. I mean, my God, in America, in the year 2023. And so mark my words, if this is what they're willing to do in the lead-up to an election,

just imagine what they'll do after when they're not accountable to any voters. If this is what they're willing to do after losing elections predicated on abortion, in Ohio and in Kansas and in Virginia and in Kentucky, then clearly they are not concerned about the will of the voters. Clearly, this is about imposing their will on a population that doesn't want it. This is about dominance, it's about control, it's about power.

And it is real and it's happening in states across the country where Republicans are in charge. The fact is that we will have one shot to reverse this tide. If Republicans are repudiated in 2024, then Democrats can undo these draconian laws and they can codify row at the federal level. But if Republicans win, they will take that as permission to plow ahead, knowing that there won't be any political penalty for stripping women of their bodily autonomy.

And then it's off to the races. So I'm covering this now because it is not normal and I'm not willing to accept it as normal. And I'm certainly not willing to allow Republicans to normalize it. But I also know that if we don't talk about it or if we lose hope, that Republicans can ride that disillusionment to more power in 2024 and beyond. And then what's happening to women like Kate Cox in Texas will seem quaint compared to the stories that we'll hear moving forward. So please, pay attention to stories like this one and share stories like this one, because if we don't do something about it now, we might not

have the chance to do it in the future. Next step is my interview with Gavin Newsom. Now we've got the governor of California. Gavin Newsom, thanks so much for taking the time. It's great to be with you. So I do want to talk about your debate with Ron DeSantis, but first, Sean Hannity gave this whole monologue prior to the debate about how he would be a fair and impartial moderator. If Hannity was any more in DeSantis's corner, he would have asked Ron to, like, tag him into the match. That's how obvious it was. So what was your reaction to Hannity's not so impartial debate performance? I've been around long enough to, I shouldn't have been surprised, but it is what it is. And it was what it was. And I'm still glad I did it.

And I think it's important. Look, you know, Box doesn't get alternative points of view very often. And it's this doom loop, and I thought it was important to get in there however we could. And to have 90 minutes interrupted, can't say it was uninterrupted, was I think at the end of the day, net positive regardless. Now, it's worth noting that DeSantis was like one of those pulstering dolls when it came to repeating the line about how many more Californians were moving to Florida. But you said that per capita, more Floridians moved to California than Californians are moving to Florida, and PolitiFact rated that as true.

So what's your reaction to knowing that DeSantis' most post? potent attack against you was actually a lie. Well, I appreciate it. That wasn't the only one. I mean, it's just, it is remarkable. And I think it is, it's the nature of, it's interesting you bring this of not just that issue that per capita last couple years, more Floridians have moved to California than the other way around, which is, again, completely contra to his entire narrative

and point. But it was many other points that he just simply said were a lie or untrue or things that he asserted, which were lies or untruth, that, that, frankly. you get away with in politics nowadays because how many people I appreciate you bringing it up how many people read political fact followed up after that they just move on to the next thing and so folks get away with this I even saw a Republican Party debate just the other night same thing people just asserting facts that are not in evidence that don't exist that are not true yet you get away within it in that environment so it's stubborn and it's hard at the same time you don't want to

necessarily be in a debate where every single moment everybody pauses and says well hold on we're going to fact-check that and we'll be back after this commercial break. So I don't know what the right solution is to this, but it's a big issue. When you find yourself holding up a poop map, as Ron DeSantis did, do you think that generally comes from a place of strength? I'll tell you, you know, I honestly, I look at not making this up, literally not making this up, because I had brought Ronald Reagan up earlier in the debate. And, of course, I walk into his office, his old gubernatorial office every day.

I looked at him, I said, I just said, this is the guy that wants to be president of the United States. And he looked like a guy running for city council. Yeah. Just kidding. District 2 in San Francisco, Board of Supervisors.

I mean, that's an interesting campaign strike. It wasn't just the poop map. It was the porn map. Yeah. And, you know, of course, we couldn't even bring in our own pens. And he brings him to the poop map. I'll spare you the nuances on that.

but, or the particulars on that, but it was just, it was, it was sad, I thought. I mean, again, and the whole premise of the debate, what's this guy doing? Why you, I even said that. I said, I know why I'm here, but Ron, why are you here? You're running for President of States. I'm not. I'm a governor of the state of California. And you're spending 90 minutes talking about things, the parochial things like that. And so I thought it was a missed opportunity for him. And he just, it just reinforced why he's not qualified to be President of the United States. Well, you know, there was a moment where you explained. how Florida taxes low-income workers more than California taxes, millionaires and billionaires.

And DeSantis' response was to warn Americans about exporting the California model. But one of the most popular issues in America right now is taxing the rich. So I feel like it pulls like at 80%. So what does that say about DeSantis' political acumen that that's the issue on which he's going to attack you? Or even the Republican Party, they talk about high-tax states. Look in the mirror. Look at states like Texas.

I mean, Texas is really, Texas, even more than Florida. Florida, and what you said is absolutely true. They tax, these states, these red states, overwhelming majority of the red states, but substantively, Florida, taxes, low-wage workers, full-time workers more than we taxed millionaires and billioners. And they call us a high-tax state. How can you claim that? It's who are you for? And it's exposed in this. They talk about this populism and how for the working folks in the middle class, they're not.

Look at who they tax. Look at their policies. Look who they benefit. And I say Texas is a master case, a class case is this, because it's like 70 or 80 percent of Texans pay more taxes than a state like California. Yet again, when you read the Wall Street Journal editorial board, when you watch the doom loop at Fox and One American News and Newsmax, you hear exactly the opposite. Again, another reason I thought it was so important to get in on that platform and express some real truth. And can you just building on that? Can you speak on the fact that these states that kind of beat their chest about not taxing people and not and not being like high tax states like California and New York are actually the ones that are the most reliant on federal subsidies and tax dollars from the federal government? I mean, you've you've driven home that message a number of times. Can you just speak on that? I mean, seven of the top 10 most dependent states, dare I say, taker states are red states. I mean, you look at infant mortality. You look at. look at maternal mortality, you look at life expectancy, you look at the gun death rate, the murder rate, seven of the top 10, murder rates in the United States are in red states. In every category, these guys are on the back end, the wrong side. You want to compare blue versus red, 71% of the nation's economic output, 71% of the GDP in the United States America come from Biden counties,

come from blue counties in the United States. I mean, in every country, category, red versus blue. It's to me not that complex. The problem is they have the surround sound, doom loop, anger machine. And that's our great challenge, I think, for Democrats, is that we have got to counter that. And for me, my iteration with this, I don't know, good or bad, people may be different or indifferent about what I did. I just think it's important to meet people where they are and at least try to get in there and to try to go toe to toe to with these guys, because otherwise we continue to live in these filter bubble. And theirs is a very dangerous one because it's leading us down a path of illiberalism. It's leading us down a path where, again, as I said the other night, education is being used as a sword, a sword for cultural purge, attacking minorities, attacking vulnerable communities, attacking, not just the LGBTQ community, women, but also the black community. And one thing that I wish I could have discussed a little bit more in the Hannity debate and DeSantis' debate is what running. You had to write on the Hannity debate part.

Yeah, I know. It was the Hannity and DeSantis debate. But I mean, you know, it's this talk about cultural purge. I mean, these guys are rewriting history, sensory and historical facts. They banned AP African American studies in Florida. This is a guy who literally doubled down that somehow slavery was some workforce development program. I mean, it's an extraordinary, extraordinary thing. And they defend it and they assert it as a point of pride. Right. And also you had called him out on banning Tony Morrison books. And he pretended that that wasn't. the case. It absolutely was the case that was proven true, again, after the fact. But again, there won't be any fact checks during the debate. And if there is a fact check, it won't

pierce the hermetically sealed bubble that is right-wing media. But to that point, what has the response been like for you? Have you heard from any Fox viewers, for example, in the aftermath of that debate? Well, yeah, I heard from my father-in-law. They said, I've got a chance to watch me because he said, look, it was interesting. Someone told me, it was an aside. I don't know if it's true, but I was literally, I woke up this morning and looked at my email and someone said, hey, that debate you did with Hannah, he got more views than even the Republican primary debate the other night and obviously different networks. But the point is a lot of folks tuned in, including a lot of Democrats, not just traditional Fox news viewers. And I think what we saw was a long tail. And I appreciate

you highlighting some of the, some of the points of the debate, it was the social media side of it. And it was the clips that were like 10x, 100x of the actual viewing audience. So, look, I think it did break through. A lot of it was in the silos and the lanes that were already in. And, you know, the punditry was, as you predict, sort of through the prism of red versus blue. But look, I think it's important for Democrats to show up. I think it's important for Democrats to go on the offense. I think it's important for Democrats to try to shape the debate as opposed to being shaped by the debate.

D-E-I-E-S-G-C-R-T, anything with three letters, IRS, I mean, FBI. I mean, it's just we're constantly on this defense, even though we have the goods, we have the facts, we have the vast majority of American people on the side of our policies, our principles, our values, the things we believe in, but we just have to be able to promote them across platforms and not just in our silos. believes that his strength is derived from punching down on large swaths of Americans that don't agree with his political ideology. What does it say that you have a guy who only knows how to attack broad swaths of the electorate who is also running to represent those people as president of the United States? Well, that was a thing about just the California bastion.

I mean, it's the 10th of American economy. 27% of all American jobs, 27% last month came from the state of California. We'll do the math on the $199,000 that came out today. Again, another argument in favor of Bidenomics, 14.1 now million new jobs, almost 14.2 million jobs. It's 10 times, now 10 times more than the last three Republican presidents combined. You look at, by the way, just on the jobs score, I think it's so important for Democrats out there to understand this. Since the end of the Cold War, since Reagan left office, there have been 50 million American jobs created. Forty-eight million of them. I'll repeat that. eight out of 50 million American jobs been created under Democratic administrations, not Republican

administration. The last three Republican presidents have one thing in common. Recessions, the last three. I can't believe we've been debating the issue of jobs and the economy in comparing to contrast the Republican Party. So look, again, all of this is, you know, it expresses itself in terms of the work we have to do to lift up the work that Biden and Harrison, in the Democratic Party have broadly done, and then obviously get things ready for the contrast. And the compare contrast is where we're going to excel. And that's why I have great confidence going into 2024, not just on the basis of 2023 and 2022, 2020, 2018, where we've outperformed Democrats consistently, but also on the basis of our ability to compare and contrast with the

likely Republican nominee. And I'm sorry, Ron DeSantis, that's not you. That's Donald Trump. You know, you brought up the idea that Republicans, how they present themselves as the party of jobs, jobs, jobs. And yet in the last 30 some odd years, they've created 4% of the jobs while the Democrats have created 96% of them. Can you explain, like, did that inform your reason for going on this debate stage and debating Ron DeSantis? Because there are those who say, well, why isn't Biden the one to go out there? So what kind of what led you to be the one to kind of take this mantle? A little frustration. I mean, now I'm getting trouble, but I mean, we got to show up for this guy. He's shown up for us last three years. The American people, the most significant economic plan. I said it in the stage. I'll say it again to you since FDR, the Chips and Science Act, the infrastructure bill, the most significant investments in infrastructure since Eisenhower, $1.2 trillion, $550 billion new investments. I mean, we're seeing the benefits of that. California, we just announced this morning, the $6 billion coming into my state. and the tens of thousands of jobs being created just on our first in the nation high-speed rail program

because of that infrastructure investment. I mean, he's doing things Republicans dreamt of. I mean, Donald Trump, every week, the punchline, you talked about it, at nauseam. We all have that punchline that was infrastructure week. The lowest black unemployment in American history. The lowest unemployment for women in 70 years. The lowest Hispanic unemployment in American history. The lowest poverty rates for African Americans in American history.

the highest insured rates. I mean, across the board, if any one of those things, remember you hear Trump all the time talking about the lowest black unemployment under me. He lost, by the way, 2.9 million jobs. That was Trump's and close to $9 trillion of debt. I mean, in the fact that they're selling that somehow was a renaissance and prosperity in the United States, Biden's actually delivered, but we need to deliver that message.

And if it's not someone else, then I just said, okay, if I'm not going to see other people do this, I appreciate Pete's been doing great. A lot of people do an amazing job. Like they're out there for this guy for our, for team Biden. But I think we need to get more of us. We need to reinforcement with pride. We're not pulling teeth here. We've got the record. I mean, they don't. They have rhetoric. They say, well, we're going to lower interest rates. Really? How are you going to do that? We're going to, inflation's out of control. Well, what are you going to do about it? They got nothing. They have, I mean, literally nothing. I read Rhonda Sandus plan. I wanted to get into it in the debate, we didn't have enough time. He didn't want to talk about his plan. He

doesn't have a plan. That was like on the debate stage tonight. We're going to repeal and replace Obamacare. I mean, can't make it up. Did you hear DeSantis's answer? It was literally laughable and what was more laughable is that the moderators didn't even follow up saying, was that an answer or was that a joke? Yeah. I mean, this is serious. Tens of hundreds of millions of people's lives can be disrupted if these guys get their way. I mean, DeSan, has tried to pull that off 14 times you voted against Obamacare. You got Trump now campaigning on. I mean, this is serious stuff.

And so for me, yeah, I'm going to keep showing up until Biden folks tell me to stop or no one, no one wants to hear me anymore, which I get. But I don't want to be the only one. And we're not. I mean, we got some great governors out there, great mayors, great leaders out there and Congress doing good work. But we need more. We just do.

We need surround sound because this is, it's liberalism versus illiberalism. It's pro-democracy versus a guy who tried to light democracy on fire. This is a consequential, profound moment. You got guys, I was highlighting DeSantis' extremism by trying to criminalize women. How about this guy, Paxton, out there after getting away with being, you know, a criminal case against him? And now he wants to criminalize and prosecute doctors in Texas. This is a red state, blue state. This is serious rights regression.

And states are on the front lines of this rights regression. and Democrats in legislatures matter, Democratic governors matter, Democratic local leaders matter, and our president matters. And I'll tell you, if we can't have the back of the guy who's done more in three years

than any president in my lifetime, Democrats, I don't know what we deserve. Guys, he really, this is a man of character, decency, honesty, integrity, and he's produced some extraordinary results. We have a lot of work to get inflation down further. I understand people's stress. I understand what interest rates

mean and don't mean, but we're going to see interest rates start coming down next year. We're moving in the right direction, and we have no peers. America has no peers globally, which only reinforces Biden's leadership. Yeah, I think that was perfectly put. You know, this isn't going to be Rhonda Santis' last time on a debate stage. So, and it looks like he's going to be going, he's going to be going at Nikki Haley, who is, for all intents and purposes, eclipsed him because this race was his to lose, and he did exactly that.

So do you have any advice for Nikki Haley? Haley as she will prepare to take the debate stage against Ron DeSense. What is his biggest weakness on the debate stage as he moves forward? I think you saw it on display. And it was interesting. I saw some clips. I'm assuming you're not talking about his his effort in trying to smile. I want to be fair. That's for me, not from you. Some have suggested there's an inauthenticity that we're, look, here's the interesting thing. And I don't mean this is a personal slide. I meant when I said at the end, he seems like a wonderful husband, I mean, and a great father. He really does. And I admire his service and is willing to sacrifice in terms of his public service

by getting in the ring. And none of that's easy. And you see that on his face. This has been hard. I mean, it's been hard. It's been humiliating. He's belly flopped. Yeah. I mean, this was this guy, he was here. And now he's down, as I said, 41% in his own home state against a guy who is 91 plus counts against him and is likely to be convicted once, twice, three or four times. That's hard. And Nikki Haley, accordingly, is now moving past him. So I was hoping, and here's the long-win-up point,

I was hoping between those takes before the debate, after the debate, to see another side. So I could be like, I appreciate. Like, you know, like takes the guard off. It's the opposite. It was even more. I mean, I think you saw some clips. in the Republican debate sort of in between the commercials, he's even more stiff.

And so my advice to him is, be yourself to the extent you know thyself. And just, you know, I get he's very, he's wound up. And I'd be wound up to getting Trump by Trump at this level. But I'm wound up as well because I don't like his record and I don't like, as you suggest, demeaning vulnerable communities and building an entire career out of knocking other people down to make them small, try to make him appear big. And I'll tell you, one thing I've learned in life, people that try to bully other people

and make them smaller, they don't get bigger. They diminish and they disappear. Yeah, you know, on your advice of being yourself, I fear that that is the advice that Ron DeSantis has been following. That might have landed him in this spot where he's at in the first place. Let's finish off with this. Is there anything that you regret or wish

went differently from that debate? Yeah, look, of course. I mean, I can go back, just the whole format. A little more neutrality would have been nice. But no, look, hey, that's for me, you know, you miss 100% of shots you don't take. You know, I don't want to dream regretting. And the fact that I was willing to go on Fox in a red state in his backyard where a super PAC is, you know, is struggling to figure out their role in responsibility, but against a presidential candidate

on their terms, you know, I was pretty proud of that. And look, you know, you can go back and go, could have would have a should have and wish the questions were a little more balanced and all that no one cares and it doesn't matter. I was able to make the point, points that I made. And there were additional things that poppics, we didn't get a chance to discuss in more detail. It doesn't surprise me on mental health and health care and broader issues that I think matter than American people, gun violence. They don't want to talk about those things. And things that young people in particular care about deeply. But we'll save that for another time, another opportunity.

out to you about debating you in the aftermath of that DeSantis debate? Well, not surprisingly. I mentioned some of my family members, Republicans, and I have a lot Republican friends. And I don't, you know, my goal is, I have to represent everyone. I represent the largest state size of 21 state populations combined. It's the fifth largest economy on planet Earth, soon to be fourth, likely, very likely. And I represent everybody. You don't have to like me, try to recall me, disagree with me. A deep respect. because we all, at the end of the day, we all want to be loved. We all need to be loved. I talked to the end of the debate about everybody wants to be protected, respected,

connected to something bigger than themselves. And so, yeah, I had a lot of Republican friends call. And if nothing else, they said, good for you. But any politicians reach out about getting in the ring with you? Well, no, I didn't get anybody saying me next. But so look, I don't know if I took that. That's a compliment or not. But look, hey, I'm ready. I enjoyed that, and I said at the end, let's keep going. That was fun. And as I said, we got a lot more in the tank.

So I'm looking forward to getting back on the stage for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, getting back on the stage for Team Blue, getting back on the stage for our values, which I think are universal that are shared by the vast majority of Americans, and get on the stage for the next generation that deserves better than the Republican Party. And just, I know we're getting close to the end. I cannot impress upon you more how consequential this moment is. We, you know, I began that debate by talking about these guys putting America in reverse.

That's not exaggerated. They do want to bring us back to pre-1960s world. They're very intentional about it. And voting rights, civil rights, LGBTQ rights. It's not just, as I said, access to reproductive care. I mean, it's also access to just simple things like contraception that these guys are coming after. It's a very, very meaningful moment. And I know we may have some different points of view on a lot of.

complex issues, Democrats. I love that about our party. We express ourselves in different shades of blue. But I hope at the end of the day, we all get on board and we recognize our responsibility to meet this moment in this campaign head on and go to bat for this guy and our president and this administration. Well, I appreciate you bringing the fight to their home turf and reaching those voters where they are. Governor Newsom, thanks for taking the time. It's great to be with you, as always. Thanks again to Governor Newsom. That's it for this. This episode, talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, interviews captured and edited for YouTube and Facebook by Nicholas Nicotera, and recorded in Los Angeles, California.

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