No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Trump caves on Greenland threats

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

Trump caves on his Greenland threats. Brian interviews Ro Khanna about a major update on the Epstein files in court, Wes Moore about major redistricting news, and journalist Adam Klasfeld about the end of Lindsay Halligan’s tenure as US attorney.Shop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Trump finally caves on his Greenland threats, and I've got three interviews. Roe-Kana gives a major update on the Epstein files in court. Westmore issues major redistricting news, and journalist Adam Klassfeld discusses the end of Lindsey Halligan's tenure as U.S. attorney. I'm Brian Taylor Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. In a major update, Trump has issued the following statement as it relates to Greenland. He took to two social writing, based upon a very productive meeting I've had with the Secretary General of NATO, Mark Ruddy, we have formed the framework of a future deal with respect

to Greenland. And in fact, the entire Arctic region, this solution, if consummated, will be a great one for the United States of America and all NATO nations. And he goes on to talk more and more. But when he was asked about this post, here's what he said. Does it still include the United States having ownership of Greenland like you've said you wanted? It's a long-term deal. It's the ultimate long-term deal. And I think it puts everybody in a really good position, especially as it pertains to security.

and minerals and everything else. How long would the deal be, Mr. President? Infinite. So let's talk about what's happening here because it's actually quite simple. Trump ramps up demands over the weekend that Greenland become a part of the United States. The market responds by plummeting.

Dow drops about 1,000 points, NASDAQ drops 600 points, S&P drops about 150 from Friday to Tuesday. Trump is super susceptible to the market crashing as the direct result of his own actions. and that was the case here. So what did Trump do? Well, he's playing make-believe that good news, we've formed a framework for a future deal.

Does that mean that there's a deal for the U.S. to acquire Greenland in the works? No, not at all. Trump is conceding defeat by pretending to have won. The framework for a future deal means nothing. It's fluff. It's empty calories. It is plausible deniability for Trump to be able to declare victory when all he's done is lose.

And if you're wondering how seriously, Trump takes frameworks? Consider the fact that Donald Trump said in 2024 that he had concepts of a plan to replace the ACA. That was two years ago. To be clear, there is zero replacement for the ACA. They've done a good job destroying the ACA, but there's no replacement. There's no plan. So when Trump says that he's got frameworks and concepts, he's bullshitting. He's hoping that people can't see the blatantly obvious reality that he's got quite literally no framework and no concepts. In fact, if you needed proof of just how much there is no plan, just listen to his explanation here. Getting back a lot of some of the nervousness we had in the last couple of days, the tariffs are off.

Nothing happens on February 1st. No, we took that off because it looks like we have pretty much a concept of a deal. A deal of ownership, a deal... Well, it's a little bit complex, but we'll explain it down the line. But the Secretary General of NATO and I and some other people were talking. the kind of a deal that I wanted to be able to do. Where does Denmark, did they weigh in on what they want, what they would agree to?

Well, I assume they did because he very much represents. He's a strong leader, Mark, you know, Mark, Wuta. And I assume he's been speaking to them. He's been speaking to all of them. Are mineral rights involved? Is ownership involved? Did the Golden Dome sway people? I don't want to say yet, but...

The Gold Dome was very compelling today when you talked about that. Yeah, the Golden Dome, and they're going to be involved? in the golden dump, and they're going to be involved in mineral rights and so are we. I have never been more convinced that nothing will happen than listening to Trump use all of those words to say exactly nothing. So look, who knows whether or not Trump is going to accept the fact that the U.S. is going to annex Greenland. He may use this moment as an opportunity to do what's smart and cut his losses and pretend that he's a winner and then move on to the next bullshit item on his list. Or, because he's unhinged and unmoored, he's.

may wake up tomorrow morning, channel his inner Napoleon and decide to just redouble his efforts. There's no way to tell because Trump doesn't have any longstanding values. He just has errant synapses fire in his brain and then words fall out of his face and that's what counts as policy in today's GOP. But this actually teaches us an important lesson because it shows that despite his best efforts to convince us otherwise, he's not immune to pressure. He's still very much responsive to external factors. The stock market and bond markets are one for sure. But the people, the people People are another. So when Trump tries to chill free speech, it's because he knows the power of that speech.

When he tries to silence comedians, it's because he knows the power of those comedians. When he tries to get journalists to bend to his will, it's because he knows the power of those journalists. He is still susceptible to public pressure, which is why he tries so hard to misinform and censor the public, because he knows that it has a massive impact. All of which is to say, do not resign yourself to this idea that Trump is some all-presenting powerful ruler, right? That's a pretense he uses to compensate for the fact that he's not. He's actually weak. He's got a dismal approval rating. He's losing independence by massive margins.

And he's underwater on almost every single issue there is, from the economy to immigration, to inflation, Epstein, Greenland, you name it. And in a few months, he will lose his congressional majority, meaning he will be a lame duck president with a neutered legislative agenda. If ever there was a time to not take our feet off the gas, it's right now. Next up are my interviews with Rokana, Wes Moore, and Adam Klasfeld. No Lie is brought to you by OneSkin. So let's talk about New Year's resolutions for a sec. January used to be about totally reinventing yourself.

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at OneSkin.co slash BTC. That's up to 15%. sent off with code BTC. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. I'm joined now by Congressman Rokana. Congressman, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me back. So I want to speak about this latest update on the Epstein files. You and Thomas Massey have gone into court and asked a judge to appoint a special master. That effort was rebuffed. And so my first question here, given the fact that there is no standing right now to ask for a special master without a lawsuit, is the next step here going to be

for you and Thomas Massey to bring a lawsuit against the DOJ to actually try and give standing to the court to be able to rule on this issue? There were two important facts in the judge's finding. First, he said that Massey and I raised, quote, legitimate concerns about DOJ's compliance and a lack of producing documents. And second, he said that there is an avenue to the representatives to get involved, they should consider bringing a lawsuit. And we are exploring the options of motions and lawsuits to enter. And I know some of the survivors are exploring it as well. So there's definitely going to be a further action. So that there can be something of a belt and suspenders approach, would there be any interest in including some of the survivors as plaintiffs

in a potential case that you and Thomas Massey would bring so that even if members of Congress don't have standing, well, that's okay because we've also got survivors who are plaintiffs, and if you all don't have standing, they might. As you saw, there were two survivors who petitioned the court, Haley Rogson and Lisa Phillips, both showing extraordinary courage. And we are looking at possibly bringing a suit with survivors,

possibly bringing a motion with survivors. We're also looking at survivors, possibly doing it on their own initiative. All options are on the table. And Massey and I are still looking at our congressional power. We may bring inherent contempt or impeachment against Bondi. You had Representative Luna today in oversight talk about how upset she is, both with the judge, but also with the DOJ. I believe we would get Republicans on an impeachment. And that would be very significant if the Republican House voted to impeach Pam Bondi. Do you feel like Congress was conned by virtue of the fact that Donald Trump said that he was

going to sign this thing because he was going to offer some good faith effort to actually release these files? And now, you know, we're more than a month past the deadline of these files. And frankly, we haven't seen any documents get released in the last few weeks. And of the documents that they did deign to release, it's less than 1% of what actually exists. I'm saying, no, I don't think we were a conned. I think Donald Trump was forced into signing.

this. I mean, he didn't want to sign this at any step. We basically forced him to sign it because he knew he would lose the Republican votes in the House and the Senate. It was the most significant Democratic bill that the president was forced to sign. So I didn't think, Massey didn't think that there would be kumbaya after he signed it. We knew it would be a fight. Now, there have been some significant documents that have come out, one saying that Maria had complained in 1996 to the FBI and no one paid attention to her, proving that she was not lying and that this whole thing could have been prevented if law enforcement had acted. And we also know there are co-conspirators from documents that came out. Why does that matter? We now know there were other rich and powerful men, part of the Epstein class who abused these young girls.

But this is going to be a tooth-and-n-nale fight to get the documents out that we want to see, mainly the F-302s, the FBI statements that the survivors made, which named these other men. and Massey and I are prepared to fight this year to get as many documents out. At what point, if there's no documents that are being released, do the survivors just come forward and say, look, we have our freedom of speech? If the Trump administration isn't going to abide by the law, then we'll just come out and name the co-conspirators of this crime ourselves. Well, they are reluctant to do that because they already are facing threats. and, you know, they could face defamation.

So, look, Massey and I. I mean, Massey is facing a primary challenge in Kentucky. I have upset some of the billionaires in Silicon Valley, not just because I've said they should pay more tax, but because I have said that the Epstein class needs to go. And Kara Swisher has pointed out that a number of people from Silicon Valley were on Epstein's Island. So we've taken on very powerful people and the survivors.

So I don't know if they will be wanting to go publicly and be sued. One thing, though, I should say is I know some of these survivors. I know they're lawyers. They're in consultation today with the Department of Justice about documents that are going to be released and making sure their names are redacted, which gives me some confidence than more documents are coming out. So I think you would see the survivors stand in front of the steps of the Capitol again if that process comes to a complete halt.

But behind the scenes, there have been conversations about. about further documents coming out. Was it a mistake not to include some punishment in the event that the Epstein files weren't released in the actual legislation? Like right now there's no enforcement mechanism other than the fact that it's just a law, but there's no deterrent effect. There's no consequences for the DOJ for not doing it. If you could go back, would that be changed at all?

Well, we did consider this when we drafted the law. And what we were told by counsel is that it would constitute obstruction of justice to violate the Epstein Transparency Act punishable by imprisonment, punishable by a huge fine. So we haven't seen that. I mean, the judge didn't rule that the Epstein Transparency Act that you could just violate it without consequence. He ruled that Massey and I didn't have standing and that he couldn't in this criminal case enforce the Epstein Transparency Act. But certainly someone could sue under that Epstein Transparency Act who did have standing, the survivors would, and the consequences could be prosecution in holding these people accountable.

And a future president could do that. But would it be up to the DOJ to be the entity that actually prosecutes, or is there some other entity that could prosecute to enforce the Epstein File Transparency Act? No, it would be the DOJ, and that's why ultimately we have to wait for a Democratic president and both to have the full release of these Epstein files and to have prosecution of those who violated the Epstein Transferencing Act. And people say, well, why does it matter?

Why does it matter? It's 20 years old. You know, this person has been dead. Why does it matter? Because it goes to trust. If you want to do what I want to do, Medicare for all, free public college, a living wage, a housing program, how can you do that when people don't trust government?

And the reason the Epstein Act is front and center. The reason that people are heckling the president as a predophile protector is it's a, symbol of a government that is protecting corrupt, rich and powerful men and that has lost the trust of the American public. When we release the files, when we prosecute those who have committed graham arms or were hiding files, then we will begin to restore trust with the American public. I want to talk about Dan Bongino for a moment. He has kind of swept back on to the podcasting space as if he's some like white knight, some crusader coming back from back.

What would your message be to the folks who tune in to Dan Bongino or who believed him when he built up his brand as this champion for accountability and transparency, recognizing that he did an entire stint as deputy FBI director did not release any of the files. In fact, was part of an administration that is right now continued to be engaged in a cover-up and yet still has the audacity to present himself as some hero when he goes back to podcasting? I'd love to get on Dan Bonino's podcast or have him come on yours and ask him some simple questions. Why aren't they releasing the witness memorandum where the survivors named these rich and powerful men? Where are they? We know where they are. Why aren't they being released?

Dan Bonjano, why aren't they releasing Epstein's emails and pictures that they took from the computer? You are the one who called for these files to be released. And now you've gone silent. Why don't you speak up? and now that you're on the outside and help us get these files release. And the interesting thing to me is I've not heard him answer those very simple questions. Yeah. Yeah.

To what extent do you think does the fact that, you know, we're seeing all of this increased activity in Venezuela, in Greenland, with ice, do you, is there any part of you that thinks that that is intended to distract from, you know, what was a pretty devastating story with regard to Epstein? And I don't ask this question to say that those. things aren't important or that they're just a distraction because I think that Donald Trump's desire to invade and annex a sovereign country is unto itself a pretty clear testament of just how depraved he is, just how lawless he is. So I don't want to diminish the gravity of what he's doing

there. But do you think to any degree that there's some complementary benefit, some tertiary benefit for him is that, okay, every day that we're talking about Greenland or ice or whatever it may be is a day that we're not talking about the fact that he's implicated in the largest pedophile cover-up in American history? I believe what Trump is doing in Venezuela and Greenland is motivated out of American arrogance. He wants to have wars not of liberation, but wars of conquest. He wants to literally take land. He wants to take resources from other people. And he wants to rid this country of immigrants who come from Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, and Stephen Miller and that have that project. So that is an ideological project of gunboat diplomacy, of an imperial foreign policy like the Monroe

doctrine, and of trying to rid us of immigrants from what they believe are the wrong countries. So I think it's something so much more sinister and deeper than just distracting from a terrible scandal. That said, the Epstein scandal isn't going away. And it's probably the thing that gets under the president's skin the most. It's the only thing that, you know, a lot of people don't understand Venezuela. They don't understand candidly ICE. They don't understand the older dispute about Greenland. You know what they do understand rich and powerful men raping girls? And they understand that they got away with it. And they hate pedophiles. And so you have people like a factory worker in Michigan saying, Mr. President, why are you protecting pedophiles?

And this gets under Donald Trump's skin because this is the one thing that is broken through the common culture. You know, when the Super Bowl comes, you talk to the folks there watching the game and you ask them for their detailed views on Madero or on Greenland. They may not know, but they'll all have an opinion on the Epstein files and who were on Epstein's Island and who was on that plane and why they aren't being prosecuted. And that's why Donald Trump is so afraid of this. And finally, when can we expect some news with regard to next steps? in court. Again, we had spoken at the top of this interview about the fact that there wasn't standing for this particular, you know, court situation. But when can we expect some next steps, be it a lawsuit or something else? Over the next two weeks, you will probably hear of what Massey

and are going to do next legally, what we're going to do in terms of inherent contempt or impeachment. and then the upcoming testimony of Pambani on February 11th at Judiciary, and let's see if she comes to oversight, as well as Maxwell's deposition in front of the oversight committee. So like I said, this is not going away. I expect more documents to be coming out from what I've been told by Survivors' lawyers or been consulted on some of the release. So we also will be monitoring what they release next. Great. We'll leave it there. Thank you, as always for your leadership on this issue, for not letting this thing slide by the wayside. And thanks for taking the time today.

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I'm joined now by the governor of Maryland, Westmore. Thanks so much for joining me. Of course, man. Great to be back with you. So you have a big announcement as far as redistricting is concerned. This is an issue that we've spoken about at length, but now there is new news here. Can you explain what that news is? There is. I mean, this has been a high priority for me, where I said in this moment, we are not just going to let democracy die. and we are not going to let Donald Trump determine what our democracy should look like. And as these other states, these Donald Trump handpick states are going through mid-decade redistricting, I said, well, Maryland's not going to sit on our hands while this is happening.

So I said, you know, I said, and I called for a governor's redistricting advisory commission that has now spent the past months listening to Marylanders all across the state where every Marylander had a chance to have their voice heard to ensure that we can have the type of maps that represent the people. And just last night, the Redisting Advisory Commission came back with their recommendations of what new maps could look like. So I'm really excited because these maps are not just going to make it make it more competitive, but it's going to make sure that our voices are actually heard and give us an opportunity to push back against this threat and this theft of democracy that we are seeing from Donald Trump right now. And I've taken a look at the maps. It seems that

the closest district would actually be D plus eight. So this would in, in theory, be an eight to nothing Democratic map. So what are next steps in this process? And do you expect that it'll be in place by 2026's midterm elections? Yes, I'm thankful because the work of the commission put this in place so there is time to be able to have this in place by the November elections. And so the next step is now it's going to go in front of the Maryland General Assembly. And so, And so the Maryland House and the Maryland Senate will have a chance to debate, we'll have a chance to make adjustments if they see fit, but then they will have a chance to vote. And because any type of changes need to happen with the authorization of the Maryland General

Assembly. So the ask that I and the ask that all of us have right now is call a vote. If you believe that if you believe in democracy, it's not just about preserving democracy from Donald Trump. what that looks like by having a vote in your own chamber right now too. Does this go to the chambers before it goes to the people of Maryland? Can you explain a little bit of the process in terms of who actually gets a say on this? Absolutely.

So the next step is actually it's going to go in front of the chambers. So the Maryland House and the Maryland Senate will have a chance to have their debates. Depending on the legislation that they will put forward on it, we can then have legislation that is accepted, that is passed, and then incorporated into the legislation that they will put forward on it, into the primary and the general elections that we will have later this year. So the next step is the General Assembly, the ball is in their court,

and we're hoping that they move accordingly. And can you give a little insight into what you've heard from members of the General Assembly in terms of the likelihood that they'll adopt it? Well, the great thing is that when you talk to the individual members, the individual members that we've had a chance to speak to, they want to see democracy upheld. They respect the work that actually happened

from the Registering Advisory Commission who really put countless hours over these past months to be able to hear from Marylanders. And they now have a unique opportunity to make sure that they can put their stamp on history and their pushback against this absolutely brutal takeover that we are watching Donald Trump try to do

on our democracy, where he's trying to alter the rules and rig the rules all across the country in order for him to win an election because he can't win on fair terms. And so the reason that I'm anxious, for the vote is regardless of what party bosses might say the people, even the members of the delegation that I have spoken to, they're excited for a vote and they're excited to have their voice heard. Are there any public holdouts for this legislation? Well, no, I think it's been, you know,

publicly reported some of the challenge that the Senate president, William Ferguson, has had on it. But the great thing that we know is the way democracy works is one person has one vote. And so what we're hoping for is that for the other members of the Senate and the other members of the House, that they will be able to have their voice heard and be able to make sure that our democracy is sustained. And I think even for President Ferguson, you know, he understands the threat that we are seeing here. I just know that when I'm thinking about this moment, there's a certain measure of urgency. There's a certain measure of fearlessness that we've got to move. And some of the opponents that I have, that I've heard from, it just keeps, it seems like

they keep moving the goalpost as to why they can't do anything. And my point is, stop spending energy on why you can't do it and spend your energy on why we must do it. I think that's especially important in light of the fact that it would have been that easy, for California Democrats to say, oh, we can't do it because X, Y, Z. It would have been that easy for Virginia Democrats to say, oh, we can't, we can't do redistricting in our own state because of X, Y, Z, which would be bad enough unto itself, this idea of, okay, how do I get to know instead of how do I get to yes, but especially to try and get to know in light of the fact that Republicans are not looking

for ways to get to know. Republicans have sparked off this process in Texas, in North Carolina, in Ohio, in Florida now. And so the asymmetry here is especially dangerous, given the fact that they're going full speed ahead with this effort that, again, was sparked off by Donald Trump saying out loud that he was entitled to five seats in Texas and getting it done. And so in light of that, that should be all the reason

that you actually fight fire with fire and not just completely surrender all of your power here to a Republican Party that's lawless in theory, but also while we're watching ICE agents, you know, this rogue secret police agency shoot people while we're watching the president of the United States, completely unencumbered, unburdened by his own party, try and invade sovereign countries, NATO allies. If that's not the kick in the ass to go ahead and try and take some power back, I don't know what is. And I'm telling you, in this moment, I refuse to be meek and I refuse to be weak.

When we are watching this assault that is taking place on all of our communities, you know, and everything that you mentioned about those individual districts, this redistricting process that Donald Trump has inspired and that Donald Trump and J.D. Vance are leading. There's another thing, too, it's the Voting Rights Act. The Voting Rights Act is going to fundamentally be the biggest point of political redlining that this country has seen in its history where black leadership is being targeted. And so when I think about this in this moment, I stay in. here is the nation's only black governor. I see there's only the third African-American ever

elected governor in the history of the United States. And I stand here as someone who understands the power of our voice, the power of this moment. And when we're watching everything taking place in our neighborhoods that you've just correctly laid out, how we're watching an administration who's using the Constitution like it's a suggestion box, there is no way my response in this moment, my responsibility to our communities, to our state, to our ancestors is going to be to sit in our hands and watch this happen. It cannot happen on our watch. In terms of legal scrutiny, that's obviously an ever-present concern. I think Republicans have tried six times right now to undermine the California map. They've lost every single time.

They're at their last ditch effort trying to elevate some doomed case up to the Supreme court. What are your thoughts in terms of this map withstanding any scrutiny, legal scrutiny by Republicans? This map stands on solid legal ground. It was something that was fundamental in the process. It was something that was fundamental with the redistricting commission. And we should remind people that not only was this a bipartisan commission that was pulled together, one of the members of the commission is the former attorney general. This process has all been done with and in conjunction with legal experts, with some of the best legal minds, both in the state of Maryland and around the country. And so we know that any argument that somehow this will inevitably

fall or that you will have them come back with new maps and other maps and will lose seats. It is just, it's scare tactics, it's fear mongering. There is no basis to it. We know that what was pulled together by the commission, it stands on legal grounds. And that is, that is why, we believe that they should also move forward on this. Maryland has both the authority and the responsibility to be able to move on this. So we have seen numerous instances where this administration watches Democrats, fight fire with fire, watches Democrats fight back, and inevitably retaliates. And Trump will retaliate with whatever tools he has at his disposal.

And right now, the favored tool at his disposal is obviously this rogue ICE agency. Do you have any concerns that Trump is going to deploy ICE in, into Baltimore, for example, as a way to retaliate against what's happening here in Maryland? I will never flinch when it comes to defending my people, ever. And I think that the president of the United States has seen that and knows that. And everybody who has ever interacted with me sees that and knows that. I will never flinch when it comes to fighting for my people. And our state will not flinch inside this moment. And for people who have a fear of what Donald Trump could do to the state of Maryland. I just want to remind them about what he's already done.

I want to remind him in the past year that we've seen how 25,000 Marylanders who are federal workers have been fired by the Trump vans administration, which by the way is a higher number than any other state in the entire country. I just want to remind people that not a single state that did not vote for Donald Trump has gotten a dollar in federal disaster relief. And that includes my people out in the state of Maryland in Western Maryland who had historic floods and have not seen a dollar in federal disaster relief. For people who think that, no, oh, he'll be able to come after us. What about the fact that he tried to pull away food from people to use it as a negotiation tool? And we actually had to tap into our fiscal responsibility fund, which is a fund that was built out with capital gains taxes,

and to say, I'm going to deploy $63 million from our fiscal responsibility fund to make sure that people's SNAP benefits are not being disrupted, despite the fact that. that the presidents of the United States has decided to try to star people to make a political point. Yeah. So, so I just, I do not understand the argument of, oh, but what if he comes after? He already is, guys. Yeah. Our job now is to fight back. Perfectly put. Well, look, there are not that many Democratic governors who've actually seen this thing through to fruition. So I want to thank you on behalf of myself and everybody watching, who's paid particularly close attention to this issue for stepping up and making this happen and actually fight.

fighting fire with fire and ushering in what I hope will be this new democratic era of meeting the moment with the urgency that it deserves. So thank you for your leadership on this issue, for making this happen. And on a slightly different note, I also have to thank you for one more thing, and I know that you know what I'm talking about here. So it's going to be a great season with Coach Harbaugh next year. So just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for giving us at least one gift from the Baltimore Ravens to our hapless New York Giants. Well, and listen, I love coach. Hopefully he can bring, you know, something to you that he wasn't going to be able to bring to us.

And listen, every, I have mad respect for Coach Harbaugh. I mean, every NFL coach would dream of having a career like John Harbaugh had, right? I just know that in this window, we have one of the most unique talents in NFL. history under center. That window for Lamar Jackson is a three to five year window. We had to make an adjustment and make a move to make sure that in that window, we need a ring. And so I'm happy for y'all. But I'm also hoping and hoping that we don't have to see Harbaugh on the Super Bowl.

That's right. All right. Well, Gov, thanks so much for the time. I appreciate it. Thanks, man. I'm joined now by All Rise News as Adam Klassfeld. Adam, we have a rare concession of defeat. by the Trump administration, specifically his DOJ. Can you explain what just happened out of the

mouth of Pam Bondi? Pam Bondi has announced that Lindsay Halligan, the former masquerading U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, is out. That this follows a federal judge's ruling that Halligan, remember, is the same person who brought the failed cases against James Comey and Letitia James and was brought on to the Eastern District of Virginia, specifically for that purpose, after fighting tooth and nail to keep a first time unqualified prosecutor in that position, they finally bit the bullet. They blinked and she is out. Why would the Trump administration do this? This is an administration that has staked so much of its credibility on this idea that they're never going to accept defeat, certainly never going to concede defeat. And so in this

instance, why was it so important to them to say, you know what? The court says that Lindsey Halligan was improperly appointed, so we're going to just kind of lay down our arms and take her out of this position. Well, it's the laws of gravity, Brian, because what we've seen throughout Trump's second term is that when the courts stand up to a bully, the bully folds. And we've seen that in the case of Kilmarrager-Garcia, for example. Kilmer-Bringer-Garcia, it took five court orders to get him out of an El Salvador prison, Seacot. They said that he would never, ever step foot on U.S. soil after they brought him to U.S. soil. They had him after he's in criminal detention, he wins pre-trial release.

After he wins pre-trial release, they put him in immigration detention. And after all of this noise saying that we're going to, to that the courts cannot control this. You cannot order us to let him be on U.S. oil. He's currently awaiting trial in U.S. oil. And why Lindsay Halligan, why give up the ghost in that fight now? They ran out of options. Her temporary tenure ran to a close. It's supposed to be a 120-day interim tenure. Even if she were legitimately appointed, which she was not, there was a binding court order disqualifying her. They tried an interpretation of that order that would allow her to remain in that office after her humiliating defeats for the entire purpose that she's there to prosecute two of Trump's enemies. And after that fails, and after a judge warns not only Halligan, but Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche that they can all face professional discipline if they all continue to insist that she is.

acting as a U.S. attorney when she is not legally allowed to serve on that basis. That's when they give up the ghost because they ran out of options. Gravity caught up to them. They had to fold. Do you think that there was any sense from Lindsay Halligan herself that imperiling her own law license might not be worth just this fool's errand of continuing to serve in this position where all of her prosecutions would get swatted down anyway? I mean, The reality is we know that no judges were buying anything with her name signed on it. And so it was symbolic as it was. But now she was dealing with the increasing threat of her own law license for the rest of her life getting taken away.

And that's her livelihood. I'm sure that she knew if she continued in that position, she faced a virtual certainty of a referral for disciplinary proceedings because a federal judge told her that that day. And on the same day, just hours before that ruling, when a federal judge said, if you persist in masquerading, I'm using his language now, masquerading in this charade, that you are a U.S. attorney, that you will be referred for possible discipline, that he will initiate disciplinary proceedings. That that happened today. And hours before then, the chief judge of the district posted a job listing for her replacement. So I think that the double whammy of that,

the writing couldn't have been more clearly spelled on the wall. And Pam Bondi gave her a really lofty send-off about the wonderful jobs she did in that district in 120 days when she blew their two most high-profile cases, humiliated herself in court again and again, didn't know basic grand jury. procedure to the extent that she let most of the grand jury out of the room before they can attest to the actual indictment, their votes on the indictment, it's humiliating defeat after humiliating defeat followed by certain danger. So I want to talk about whoever is foolish enough to take over her position. We know that that position was filled solely because

Lindsay Halligan would present herself as some lackey, perfectly willing to count. to Pam Bondi and Donald Trump and try to engage in these vindictive prosecutions, there is a lot of risk for a prosecutor to engage in this stuff, knowing full well that even if they were appointed properly, which she was not, that they would face almost certain defeat because the case for vindictive prosecution against Letitia James and James Comey and on and on is so strong. And so does that make it less likely that there's going to be some hack prosecutor who's willing to step up and fill this void, knowing that they're basically just going to, you know, this is like the equivalence of just putting yourself on the front lines in like World War I

and expecting to survive. So is it going to be less likely that there's some prosecutor who's going to be willing to do that? Or on the flip side, do you think, based on what you've seen from this administration, that there's always some hack prosecutor that's going to be drawn in by proximity to power, who's going to be perfectly content to, you know, sacrifice their own livelihood, their own reputation, their own law license so long as they could spend a few minutes groveling at the feet of dear leader Donald Trump. Moth always loves the flame until it's too late. I mean, let's just look at the history. And it's as old as Trump's first term. You had Michael Cohen. You had, you know, you have Rudy Giuliani. How many people have incinerated their careers?

I mean, John Eastman, Jenna Ellis. And that's just, you know, that's the attorneys. Then you have Gordon Sondland, Kaylee McInney, Marjorie Taylor Green, Mike Pence, Rex Tillerson, all of these people Trump is thrown onto the bus the moment they lose their political usefulness. And these are people who hitch their wagons to the Trump train only to watch themselves fall out of favor with him the moment that they can no longer be of use to him. The thing that I would think, I would advise people to keep a close eye on, especially in light of

today's news and Pam Bondi and excuse me, Lindsay Halligan's replacement, look at what the judges of the Eastern District of Virginia do in the coming days because right now they're trying to fill Lindsay Halligan's position and the line prosecutors of the Eastern District of Virginia, they could not find a single person in the district to take the cases against James Comey and Letitia James. All of them didn't want to touch this with a 10-foot pole. And right now, the judges are looking for her replacement. Do they replace her with a qualified person? And if they do that, does Trump fire that person and start the process again? So I think her replacement, you know, maybe we'll see a competent prosecutor in the Eastern District of Virginia with the judges in charge. And knowing the actual

stable of prosecutors who are not political appointees, but career civil servants who have been there from across multiple administrations. Will the judges have their say? And if so, will Trump try to muck it up? So I want you to dig into that a little bit because I'm actually unfamiliar with this process. Is it the judges who choose U.S. attorneys for each respective district and then Trump has to either fire them or leave them in place?

Or is it Trump who appoints? these U.S. attorneys, and then the judges get to vote on whether or not they want to keep those people in place. So the most U.S. attorneys are appointed by the president of the United States, but they need to have the advice and consent of the Senate, something that Trump could never get for Lindsay Halligan and the other U.S. attorneys who have been disqualified. Now, Trump likes to complain and claim that, oh, he can't get the blue slip in blue states like Virginia, that it's Democratic senators who are holding this up. But let's get real. In Trump's first term, it was never a problem to get bipartisan support across the Senate for qualified candidates because in other administrations,

we saw U.S. attorneys as people who would follow the law and not be political hatchetman. Trump's real complaint, the reason why the advice and consent of the Senate is so hard for him is because he is trying to appoint the likes of Lindsay Halligan, his former attorney, his former White House aide who has no prosecutorial experience, people who would not get support from the Senate. And so why are the judges stepping in? because that is essentially the reserve manner in which you can appoint a U.S. attorney. If the interim appointment fails that, you know, the interim appointment is supposed to last, it's interim for a reason. It's supposed to last 120 days, at which time either that candidate gets the approval of the judges of the district or the advice and consent of the Senate. if neither happens, then the judges can decide.

The judges can appoint someone. But that is, we're only at this stage because Trump has failed to put in qualified people in offices where he's installing people to be his hatchet men and women. Adam, you know that if the Trump administration had to swallow this loss, that they're going to fume about it. They're going to be irate about the fact that Lindsay Halligan wasn't allowed to continue in her role. And it's not like the Trump administration to just say, oh, well, them's the rules. And so we'll just have to, you know, abide by them and hopefully the next time it works out better. These are people

for whom, if the rules don't work, then you change the rules. You obliterate the rules. You, you know, flip the rules on their head and you make up your own rules. And so as we proceed into this process, recognizing the importance that the Eastern District of Virginia has, especially as it relates to these vindictive prosecutions that Trump wants to engage in, do you presume that Pam Bondi and Trump will just kind of cross their fingers and hope that it all works out well next time? Or do you think that we're going to see some upending of the rules here and them try and shoehorn in some prosecutor in some other way, even if they can't get what they want through regular course of order?

I think that they're going to try some shenanigans. But I also talk about the law that I mentioned earlier. law of gravity. They have tried their bag of tricks. They have tried to a large extent to go on the attack against the judge for whose order led to the ouster of Lindsay Halligan, basically writing a legal brief that went on the full attack against him, said that he was leading an inquisition, said that he made rudimentary and elementary errors in the law. As a matter of fact, in the ruling that had warned Halligan about disciplinary proceedings being opened up against her, if she kept masquerading as a U.S. attorney, he had mentioned that this legal brief, which was

co-signed by Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche, this legal brief, he said, was more fitting for a cable news talk show, that it was so full of vitriol in his words, that it's not something that he expects from litigants in his courtroom, let alone the Department of Justice. So to answer your question, Brian, do I think that Todd Blanche and Pam Bondi are going to see the error of their ways? No, but they are seeing that their options are getting increasingly limited in this particular fight. Well, look, we'll take the good news where we can get it. And more good news is that Adam covers all of this stuff on his newsletter, All Rise News. So I'm going to put the link to All Rise News right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video.

If you want to hear more from him, stay up to date on the most breaking legal news as it breaks. I highly recommend that you subscribe to All Rise News. Again, that link is right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. Adam, as always, thanks for the time. Thanks, Brian. Always a pleasure. Thanks again to Rokana, Westmore, and Adam Klassfeld. That's it for this episode. Talk to you this weekend. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen.

Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to bryantellercoen.com to learn more.