No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Trump commits major Thanksgiving mistake

Episode Date: November 30, 2025

Trump commits a major mistake over the Thanksgiving holiday. Brian interviews Senator Mark Kelly, California gubernatorial candidates Eric Swalwell and Tom Steyer, and PSA co-host Tommy Vietor.Shop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Trump commits a major mistake over the Thanksgiving holiday, and I have four interviews. I'm joined by Senator Mark Kelly, California gubernatorial candidates Eric Swalwell and Tom Steyer, and Pod Save America co-host Tommy Vitor. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. On Thanksgiving Day, Trump posted something that was consequential in more ways than one. So whereas millions of Americans were with their families, enjoying their company, making memories, eating food, Trump was hunched over his phone farting out screeds to the world

and one said screed read in part quote hundreds of thousands of refugees from Somalia are completely taking over the once great state of Minnesota Somalian gangs are roving the streets looking for prey as our wonderful people stay locked in their apartments and houses hoping against hope that they will be left alone

the seriously retarded governor of Minnesota Tim Walls does nothing either through fear and competence or both. So first off very holiday forward. Like Again, this post was on Thanksgiving Day. This from the leader of the party that has spent the last two decades bitching and moaning that the radical left isn't deferential enough to the holidays and has been waging a war on Christmas,

now they've got full control of government, not a single Democrat in power at the federal level, and they use those holidays to publicly call people retarded instead of spending time with their families. Is this the resolution to the war on Christmas that we've spent the last 20 years hearing about that conservatives just wanted to cast off their woke shackles so that they could call, call people retarded instead of spending time with their families? But all of that notwithstanding, the Post had two major immediate consequences. So first off, one Indiana Republican took to Facebook writing, many of you have asked my position on redistricting. I have been an unapologetic advocate for people with intellectual disability since the birth of my second daughter. Those of you

that don't know me or my family might not know that my daughter has Down syndrome. This is not the first time our president has used these insulting and derogatory references and his choices of words have consequences. I will be voting no on redistricting. Perhaps he can use the next 10 months to convince voters that his policies and behavior deserve a congressional majority. And remember, Indiana Republicans announced a special legislative session on December 8th or just a week or two away to yet again consider redrawing their map mid-cycle so that they can engineer permanent majorities for themselves in the House. And yet now, it looks like that effort is once again, on life support, all because Donald Trump could not control himself and decided that on Thanksgiving

day, he needed to come out and say that the governor of Minnesota is retarded. Like, I would say that he would have been better off spending time with his family than blowing up his own redistricting push, but I suppose that would require his family wanting to spend quality time with him. But there's another point worth noting here, in addition to losing himself the support that he needs to engineer a permanent majority in the house because he wanted to appeal to some in-cell loser Groypers. Think about the situations in which Trump needs to post something that he knows full well it's going to own the news cycle. It's when he needs to redirect focus. Remember, Trump wants chaos and dysfunction. That's where he thrives. You've heard the saying, never wrestle with pigs.

You both get dirty, but the pig likes it. When Trump is online calling people retarded is because that's his terrain. That's where he feels comfortable. He'll stoke outrage against the left. His own party will normally ignore it. And the partisan circus lives to see another day and he comes out on top. Of course, this time it was his own party that revolted, but more broadly, it is a reminder that Trump has something to hide. He doesn't need to do the distraction routine if things are going well for him, but they're not. Trump took a massive hit on the Epstein files, watching every single member of his party

to effect and vote for their release except for Clay Higgins. He took a massive hit on November 4th, with Republicans losing every single major race across the United States, including statewide in Georgia and Pennsylvania. And he's taken of massive hit. in his polling, hitting his lowest point ever in Gallup with a negative 24 point margin, largely on the back of his failed promise to deliver on his affordability agenda, instead presiding over surging prices in electricity, construction, housing, rent, groceries, clothing, food, and more.

He's well aware of that, which is exactly the reason that he needed to go to the greatest hits and dig into the old trusty playbook where Trump attacks a Democrat and everybody just retreats back into their partisan corners. Except now, even that isn't working. So look, I'm not here to tell you that we've got everything in the bag because the next year is going to take a shit ton of work, but you can find some solace in the fact that his old tricks aren't working as easily as they once did.

And that's because everybody, left, right and center, are starting to see the con that they've been sold at the hands of this president. Next up in my interviews with Mark Kelly, Eric Swalwell, Tom Steyer, and Tommy Vitor. No lies brought to you by Quince. Cold mornings, holiday plans, this is when I want my wardrobe to be simple. Stuff that looks sharp, feels good, things I'll actually wear. And for me, that's Quince.

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and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's Q-U-I-N-C.com slash B-T-C, free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash BTC. I'm joined now by the U.S. Senator from Arizona. Mark Kelly, thanks so much for taking the time. Good to be on again, Brian.

So you're a military veteran. You participated in this very banal, inocuous video saying that members of the military should refuse to follow unlawful orders, illegal orders, again, pretty uncontroversial. And yet, the administration took such issue with the suggestion that the Pentagon has now announced this week that it was reviewing whether you might have violated military law and raised the possibility that you could be court-martialed. And so first and foremost, your level of concern that as the result of this video, suggesting that members of the military should not follow

unlawful orders that you may be court-martialed. Well, my concern is not for me. My concern is the chilling effect that this has not only in the military, but throughout our country. I said five simple words. You can refuse illegal orders. That's it. Donald Trump's response was that I should be executed, hanged, prosecuted. Now Pete Hegseth and the Department of Defense coming after me under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, it's quite ironic. What we said, was reciting the Uniform Code of Military Justice and they're going to prosecute me under the Uniform Code of Military Justice

for saying what is the law in the U.S. military. So this is, on its face, this is ridiculous. But it does have a chilling effect. And I really worry about service members but also like anybody in the country, like everybody's free speech rights are in jeopardy when something as simple as what I said could get me executed.

So I want to dig into that a little bit because, look, I was not in the military, but I presume that there's going to be a lot of pressure on members of the military to comply with orders, the legality notwithstanding if they're coming down from higher ups. And so can you talk about a little bit of what it's like in real life situations where a member of the military is faced with what I presume is a really difficult decision, which is ignoring an unlawful command from their superior versus. just, you know, recognizing that it's an order that was given to them, and so better to just keep my head down and follow orders. Well, Brian, I flew 39 combat missions in Iraq and Kuwait

during the First Gulf War. Never did I have any concern that any of the strikes that I was ordered to carry out were illegal. I think it's a very rare circumstance where something like that happens. And I think any reasonable person can tell the difference between what as a legal and illegal order. But I also think with this president, with some of the things that he has said, he's talked about sending US troops into cities using those cities as training grounds.

That means the citizens in those cities are what, props for military training. He has previously talked about shooting protesters in the legs. Fortunately, Mark Esper and Mark Millie were there to tell them that that is, you're not allowed to do. do that. On a debate stage in 2016, Donald Trump said, he said something that was clearly would be an illegal order. And Brett Baer, the host said, that would be illegal. The military will

not carry out those kind of orders. And Donald Trump's response was, the military will not refuse my orders. So we were just trying to show that for members of the military, we have their backs, we understand that they could be, they could find themselves in a challenging situation. I wouldn't say frequently, but somebody could. And it's a friendly reminder that the law says, not only do you not have to follow illegal orders, you're prohibited from following them. And this is such a big deal, by the way, that there's a plaque in a part of the U.S. Academy. It's it's sort of called Constitution Corner, where it says this specifically. I mean, it says that if the law and orders are in conflict, members of the military must follow the law.

And if I'm not mistaken, I think that Trump posted the plaque on his truth social. But either way, what is it? He did, just not this way. But like, what does it say that this guy is trying so hard to gaslight his supporters that he will oftentimes broadcast the truth, but then tell them that what they're looking at isn't actually what they're looking at and not to believe their lying eyes, to believe what he says these things say. Well, he thinks the truth is whatever happens to come out of his mouth at any moment. And he could, as we've seen, he can change his mind on a dime. I mean, very quickly, do a 180 on so many things. I mean, look at the Epstein files as an example.

intimidating people not to sign on to that discharge petition, do not release the Epstein files, and then suddenly, I'm all for it. I mean, this is who this guy is. But I'll tell you what, Brian, these actions that he and Pete Hegseth has taken against me, I spent 25 years in uniform, 39 combat missions, flew the space shuttle, married to Gabby Giffords. She nearly lost her life because of political violence, this president threatens me with political violence and he's trying to silence me. And that is not going to happen. I'm a member of the United States Senate. I'm on the Armed Services Committee. I have oversight responsibility for the Department of Defense. It is my job. What I did in that video is part of my responsibility as a member of the Senate.

You had mentioned something that I thought was important before that this will have a chilling effect. To what extent do you think that Donald Trump's plan to have that chilling effect might impact the upcoming 2026 or 2028 elections in the sense that if he takes, if he bristles so hard at the prospect of telling members of the military not to follow unlawful orders, recognizing that he may do exactly that come election time, whether it's to seize voting machines as he tried to do in Georgia in 2020 or or, you know, or have them. close down roads that will lead to polling places, whatever it may be. To what extent do you think that this chilling effect could impact the upcoming elections? Well, that's the issue. I mean, if something egregious happens, it could be related to an election or related to anything else. The military's involved in a lot of different things. But let's say something bad happens and somebody's thinking about speaking out and saying something. Are they going to remember that this president called for a U.S. Senator to be hanged because of what he said.

And then this Secretary of Defense is then going to prosecute him under the Uniform Code of Military Justice because of the words that came out of his mouth that are clearly just reciting what the law is. I mean, I'm a U.S. Senator. I served 25 years. I'm a retired captain. I flew in space for. four times. If they can come after me and shut me up, what does that say to the rest of the people out there? I mean, what's the message to them? I mean, this is also for like whistleblowers. I mean, we've got a process within this huge department where we want people to speak out when there's, you know, when there's corruption going on, when the taxpayers getting ripped off. we want people to speak up.

We want people to comply with the law. And I do worry that that person is just going to say, hey, I am up against this president, this secretary of defense. They shut that guy up. I better not speak out. And that's why this president and Pete Hegseth, Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth are not going to silence me. I'm not I've got I'm going to do I'm going to show up to work every day and do my job just I was going to do it last week and the week before and I will live up to my constitutional responsibilities as a U.S. Senator.

I swore an oath to the Constitution. I care about the Constitution. I don't think they really give a shit about it anymore. No lie is brought to you by Everyday Dose. Now I'm sure that I'm like a lot of people who are watching this in that. I struggle a lot with being able to focus and therefore being as productive as I want to be. Maybe you have ADHD. Maybe you're just suffering under the deluge of news or work, whatever it may be, and you're looking for better tools to help you. Everyday dose has a combination of coffee and neutropics and Lionsman that helps with focus and mood improvement.

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Eric Swalwell, congratulations first and foremost on your announcement that you will be running for Governor of California. Thanks, Brian. I'm in. I'm in. I'm excited to do it. And first four days have just been an overwhelming response as I've gotten across state. So let's talk about your race. There are already a few names that have thrown their hats into the rings. How would your race, how would your campaign be different from those other candidates that we've already seen thus far? What is the centerpiece of your campaign? I'm a fighter and a protector who is taking on this president in real time right now in the arena. And if you want to know how I will take him on, as governor,

you can just watch me day to day as I do it. And governor, you can just watch me day to day as I do it. And what I'm hearing from Californians is two things, that people are scared and prices are high. So I see it as the governor of California has two jobs. One, to keep the worst president ever out of our homes, out of our lives, and out of our streets. And two, to bring a new California that can take on the cost crisis in our state because we love to say it's the fourth largest country in the world, the fourth largest economy in the world. And California is the greatest country in the world.

But that should mean something to someone when you say it, meaning they have a share in that, a stake in it, you know, skin in the game, so to speak. So I've taken on these fights as a planning commissioner, a city council member, a prosecutor, and certainly taking on Donald Trump for the last 10 or so years in Congress. And so I'm ready to bring the fight right here home to California to take on those issues. What is the biggest failure of democratic governance in California thus far that you would like to see rectified if you become governor? Yeah, so I'm running to bring a new California, especially on cost crisis to most young people, they think you should be able to take your first job, have your first kid, and buy your first home in the same decade. But right now, the average first-time home buyer is 40 years old. So I'm going to declare a cost crisis across the state, just as the governor has already done in the Palisades and Altadena to expedite home building. And so we're going to do that actually across the state. and every agency in the state who is sitting on or reviewing an application for a new home,

I'm going to give them 90 days to make a decision so that we have more certainty and just more homes on the market. Maxing out democracy. Democracy is under assault by this president. Any person who waits in line for 30 minutes, that's way too long. And we can't just be a little bit better than Georgia or Alabama. So I'm going to fine counties per person for every minute over 30 minutes. And also, I want us to be a state that really leans in to technology. And so where we can make it safe and secure, we will allow people to vote by phone, which, by the way, is already happening across the country.

It's happening in a secure way with an audible backup trail. And, of course, if you still want to vote in person or vote by mail, you can do that. But I want to expand the ways in which Californians can civically participate. And then small business growth, you know, we have the highest unemployment right now in the country. And we have some of the slowest growth as far as new small businesses in the country. I'm going to give a three-year tax holiday to any new small business. I want you to focus on getting your business plan together, getting not only revenue, but to profitability, hiring employees, creating business to business revenue for other businesses around you.

And then that will bring in long-term revenue for the state. So there's a lot that I think we can do to, you know, take on the cost crisis in the state. And that's what a new California means to me. So there has been some criticism leveled at the prospect of a vote-by-phone plan. And frankly, given the extent to which technology is fallible, hackable, whatever it may be, is there some concern? Or how could you be confident that enacting a plan like that would mean secure elections moving forward? Yeah. Only if we make it safe, will we make it happen?

And so what I want us to do is to put forward the most secure way to vote by phone. If we can't make it safe, we're not going to do it, but it's actually already happened. West Virginia, for example, they oversees military members vote by phone even in federal elections in West Virginia. Salt Lake City has had its mayor elected by voting by phone, and there have not been security issues. But if there are, again, you can see into it and you can see where any. compromise has concern. I just happen to think if we want to be the party that is expanding access to democracy, we should put it in people's hands the same way we do for banking, health care records, taxes, everything else that we do by phone. I want to put democracy there

too. In terms of California's leadership in the country, we have the unique positioning where if we can dictate state laws because of the size of our economy, because of the size of our population, that de facto becomes the standard for the rest of the country. We use it in particular in fuel efficiency standards. So California imposes high fuel efficiency standards. And if a car manufacturer wants to sell cars in California, which of course they will, it's the, again, the biggest economy in the entire country, then you have to abide by our standards. And that becomes the default standard for the rest of the country. In what other ways can you use California's position, population, economy size, to kind of shoehorn in good policy

that will kind of, again, by virtue of our position, make that the de facto position for the rest of the country. Yeah. And the rest of the country has benefited because California leads in that way. And so I also see opportunities, by the way, on AI. Look, I want us to be the AI capital of the world. But as a parent, I want to have the guardrails that protect our kids from AI that allows cyberbullying on steroids or that creates more privacy issues or that is continuing to create trademark and copyright issues for creators like yourself. I want AI to be a technology that creates more jobs than it displaces, but that means California has to lead on it. That's one example. I also believe when it comes

to food. You know, California recently was able to ban five of the worst chemicals for our bodies. And I want to continue to look at like, you know, what toxins are around us and what California can do, you know, to make our environment and our food safer for, you know, Californians. But also, as I said, democracy, as I pointed out with the waiting in line problem. And it's insane to me that anybody would have to wait in line for longer than 30 minutes. We also know Republicans weaponize that sometimes to suggest the lines too long and people maybe shouldn't go vote or have even in instances that's been reported to me that they will create the appearance of a long lines on college campuses so people think, oh, well, this is too long for me. So there's a lot where we can lead. But Brian, the next governor of California also has to be inventive with how we get resources because the president has taken away cancer funding. He's taken away funding for our research universities. He's taken away port security. funding. So I will create an ambassador program for a research fund in California and I will dispatch the best public and private sector leaders we have in a state to Asia, to Europe, to the

Gulf, to financial capitals all over the world to make the case that if you bet on California, Californians will pay lower costs and the return on investment to those who bet on California will be great. You had mentioned AI and making California the capital of AI. There is concern across the country as we see more candidates running against the prospect of having AI data centers in their towns or cities or wherever it may be because of the impact on local resources and also energy prices. And so how do you reconcile those two things? Yeah. So we certainly have, we have to meet the AI energy demands. And this is why I see an opportunity to expand, by the way, the clean, renewable energy options that we have, you know, in California that were taken away

by the Inflation Reduction Act. And if AI, you know, companies want California to be the capital, they have to be invested in the power solution, which can't just be a solution for them, but it has to be lower energy costs for all Californians. That's the bet. That's the deal that I will make. I will bring those folks to the table. But we can dramatically expand. And there's ways to do this across the state, the solar that we take on and put on to the grid. Again, especially with the president taking away this funding, a California research fund for this life sciences and energy is going to be the only way that we can do that. I'll leverage my relationships, not just domestically, but overseeing the CIA had the

opportunity to visit nearly 40 countries, meet with presidents, prime ministers, kings. I will leverage those relationships to have them make investments. in California's. So one of the issues that impacts the city where I live, which is Los Angeles, is, you know, this issue of the entertainment industry basically being exported, not just to the rest of the country, which we've seen over the last 10 years, but to the rest of the world now. Even Georgia, which took all of Marvel studios out of California, now Georgia's lost

that to the UK. And really there is one thing that every single person working in entertainment is looking at when they're choosing where to invest to make their film or television show, and that is what the tax credits are. And so where do you stand on the tax credit that California currently offers, and what would you offer? California has to be the easiest place, not the hardest place to film for TV, film, and content creators. Captain America should be filmed in America, and it's not. So, you know, just bond. bottom line, or I would call it above the line approach here is we have to go above the line on the

credit. That's what I would do. I understand this uniquely as a TV and film producer that there is a whole economy here that continues to shrink. And we're not talking about the people, the first, you know, 10 names you see in the credits on a film. We're talking about, you know, the last 500, you know, the people who do the work to make, you know, to help get these TV and films made and distributed. And so if you do an above-the-line credit, that's the best way to make sure, you know, that it's always made in California. And by the way, it's not just, you know, the 500 names below the line. It's also local businesses. It's local hotels. It's florists. It's, I mean, the whole industry is foundational upon whether there continues to be productions that are shot.

I mean, when I moved to L.A. 15 years ago, you could not drive, you know, five minutes without seeing one of those, those yellow placards that basically, say, you know, give an arrow to point to wherever a production is shooting. They were everywhere. It's virtually vanished at this point. And I think, well, I think on set you have like star wagons, right? And you have the catering companies. These are whole economies of, you know, working class jobs that are being lost, not just out of state, but overseas. Correct. And so right now are the film and television tax credit is $750 million. The only state that has a higher film and tax credit is Georgia right now. Even Georgia's tax credit, as I mentioned before, isn't enough to keep the jobs in state. And so my goal is $3 billion. My goal is $3 billion. Okay. Above the line, though, above the line. So that the difference is that, you know, when you go above the line, you can start to realize the benefit immediately.

As you start, you know, whether you're in pre-production, principal photography, or post-production, you get the benefit more quickly. And especially for independent films, that's critical, you know, for drawing investors and getting the film financed and made, which has to be the goal, you know, for all these jobs to be created and ultimately, you know, for the film to be successful. And again, these are not the first 10 credits that we're talking about. These are, you know, the hardworking folks who are a part of this industry that are so critical to the California economy. I'm going to argue against myself for a moment here and say that, you know, what about the criticism that would come from this, which is this idea that for everybody else in the rest of the state that isn't Los Angeles and to some degree San Francisco, because I know that there's some small entertainment industry contingent up in San Francisco as well. but for the folks in the rest of the state who are going to see this and say, like, you know, this is, this is typical that the glossy entertainment industry would get all the attention. But what about, you know, what about the farmers? What about this industry? What about that industry? And so, which is, which is standard anytime anytime any industry is going to get a tax carve out, it comes at the expense of something else. And so what do you say to the rest of the industry in the state of California in light of, of what, frankly, I hope will be the biggest tax credit that we have in the entire country.

Well, first, I'm a Bay Area producer, and there's a lot of talent across the state, you know, in this industry. It's not just in Los Angeles. And also, I would allow content creators to be eligible for this. And we have seen, you know, that it is horizontally distributed as far as, you know, content creators and where they're located in the state. But if overall, that credit means that there is more revenue coming back to the state, not just in Los Angeles, but back to the state that we can provide lower cost health insurance and lower energy costs, then to me, that is a bet that's going to pay off big time.

But you have to bet on California production first before it's a happen. And final question here. What about the plan in terms of there are areas of California where insurance is no longer offered because of because of the risk of wildfires or the prevalence of wildfires. And so what is the plan to make California insurable in light of these natural disasters that are becoming more and more prevalent? Yeah. So we need more competition. And so many insurers have left the state. And so I'm going to work to bring insurance.

back, and that is in part a regulatory fix because there's a 36-month penalty, essentially, once you leave, it takes a certain period of time to come back. We have to, you know, I think declare a crisis, waive that, get credible funded insurers back so that there is more competition. And then, you know, look at, you know, an overall, you know, I think look at increasing reinsurance and umbrella plans that can cover homeowners, you know, who are priced out. But this is going to a big priority of mine. And frankly, you know, making sure that you have qualified, credible, experienced individuals working on this, which I think has been a problem, you know, in the past, especially as the disasters have only escalated.

For folks who are looking to help your campaign, working they go. Yeah, thank you. Eric Swalwell.com, but at Eric Swalwell, across all socials. But find me. I'm going to be across the state. I was an orange County on Saturday. I love to do Ask Me Anything Style Town Halls, no screened questions. That one was at capacity. We had a wait list of about 500 people, so I'm going to continue to go across the state. I'll be in San Diego on December 2, December 14. I'll be in Fresno. So I'm going to get across the state, make my case for a new California. Excellent. I'll put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description. If you're listening on the podcast, I'll put that in the show

notes. Congressman, thanks so much for the time. Best luck on campaign trial. No Lie is brought to you by Aura Frames. We are in this moment right now where everybody's looking for the perfect gift. It is very difficult. I always don't know what to get from my own family. That's when I found Aura Frames. Orra Frames is basically the cheat code for winning the holidays. It's personal, easy, and unforgettable. So do you have anybody in your family who is notoriously difficult to buy a gift for? I do. And Aura Frames is perfect for that person because Now, instead of feeling like you've just given them some one-off gift that they may or may not like, they get to be a part of your life on a daily basis, see what you're doing, follow along with photos and videos.

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wirecutter by using promo code BTC at checkout. That's A-U-R-A-Frames.com promo code BTCC. This exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best of the year, so order now before it ends. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. I'm joined now by candidate for governor of California. Tom Steyer, Tom, thanks so much for joining me. Brian, thanks a lot for having me. So first and foremost, California has emerged as the principal weapon to wield against Donald Trump. We've seen that at play in the redistricting wars. Donald Trump thought that he could issue his clarion call and that Texas and all of these other Republican states would just redraw their maps and deliver a scientifically engineered majority to Republicans in the House.

California stepped up and neutralized that effort by Trump and Republicans. When we've seen California also lead the way in terms of first suing Donald Trump when he deployed those troops to Los Angeles. So on issue after issue, California has served as a bulwark against the worst successes of the Trump administration. And so how do you view California if you become governor as an obstacle, as a weapon to wield against an administration for whom rules don't apply? Well, Brian, let's start with California.

California is the biggest most populous state in the country. It's got the most dynamic economy. We have a value system that is very, very different from this administration, and therefore it's incumbent on us to lead and to stand up to Donald Trump and his administration at every step of the way. And let me say that I've been doing that for a long time. In his first administration, I organized a group type called Neen to Impeach. It got 8 million people to support the impeachment of Donald Trump, including a million Californians.

In Prop 50, I give it tons of credit to Governor Newsom for initiating that, for getting it on the ballot. But I continued my efforts to stand up to Trump in that by running ads saying clearly, he's trying to steal another election, we have to stand up to him, that's our job. The only thing a bully understands is strength, and we need to be strong and stand up to him at every occasion. And honestly, that's what California's role must be, and that's what I've been doing for a long time. Let's talk about climate, because I know that that's a principal issue for you. And so how do you view California's role in terms of combating the climate crisis, recognizing that this is a federal government that isn't interested in doing anything to combat climate change and in fact is

exacerbating the effects of climate change. And frankly, because this has become a cultural issue, you have half the country that's not going to view climate or tackling climate change as something worth doing. Well, Brian, as I'm sure you know, I've been working on this energy climate issue for a really long time. And in fact, with George Scherner, I led a proposition against the oil companies that we won 70-30 to make sure that California stayed in the forefront of this energy transition. But let me say this. I also wrote a book, which is the answer to your question, which is I wrote a book a year

and a half ago called Cheaper, Faster, Better, How We Win the Climate Struggle. And that's my point is, when we look at what's going on in energy, when we look at what's going on in emissions. The first thing we have to know is for it to work, we have to have an alternative that is cheaper, faster, and better. And the good news is we do. If you look at the cost of renewables, they are much, much cheaper than fossil fuels. Technology is on our side. California is leading in terms of developing the new technologies and implementing them. So when we think about the climate struggle, when we think about the energy transition, we're going to have to make it work from the standpoint of business and serving Californian citizens.

Look, we are in a affordability crisis. We need to drive down the cost of electricity for Californian citizens because it's double the national average. But we also need to drive down the cost of electricity for California businesses, because to the extent that electricity is a major cost in your business and you compete with businesses outside the state and outside the country, it's critical we drive down those costs. The good news is we absolutely can. We have to change the way we're structured. We are depending on monopolies right now for electricity, which are famously inefficient and expensive. So when we think about climate, we've got to remember first and foremost, it has to work for California families. It has to work for California businesses. And the good news is it does work

right now, California is leading the way. We have to prove this is the way to go. It's much better for everybody. What is one thing that the Newsom administration has done the best and one thing you think the Newsom administration has done the worst? In terms of climate? In terms of anything governing. Look, I agree with Gavin Newsom's values and policies in a great number of ways. And I think that the thing that Californian citizens as a group appreciate the most in what he's done as governor, particularly recently, is standing up to Donald Trump as a representative of the state and as a representative of democratic values. I think that everybody really appreciates that. I think it's also true for us to address the affordability crisis, we're going to have to do things differently.

We're going to have to take on some of the structures and some of the status quo, special interests that are in charge. And I think for that to happen, we're going to have to have somebody who owes no allegiance to them, who is simply representing the working families of California, and who can get results. And let me say, I don't have, I don't know anything to those people. I don't know anything to those companies. And over the last 15 years, I have taken on the oil companies and beaten them. I have taken on the tobacco companies and beaten them. And I have taken on out-of-state corporations, huge out-of-state corporations that were paying lower California income taxes on their California earnings than California companies. So I believe that I have a history

of being willing to take on the structural problems in our state that are bedeviling working families, getting results, and really producing billions of dollars a year for California education in health care without charging Californian citizens a nickel. I think that's what we need to be on spine. Can you talk a little bit about your stance on housing? Because we have seen an exodus of Californians to other states, oftentimes red states. And as we head toward the 2030 census and subsequent censuses, we're going to see the extent to which having a population that is not growing as fast as other states is going to have

some impact electorally speaking as well. We've already seen California lose electoral votes to other states that continue to grow faster than this one. And so in terms of housing and building enough of a supply for people to actually stay here, can you speak about your stance on that?

Absolutely. Look, I love California. Californians love California. The problem for Californians is they can't afford to live in California. And that starts in a major way with housing. Why are rents so high? Because we don't have enough houses. Why is it so expensive to buy a house? Because we don't have enough houses. And why do we have this huge homelessness issue? Because we don't have enough houses. So when you look,

what I've said is we will build a million houses. Right now we're averaging 88,000 a year. That's not nearly enough to meet the demand. And so let's talk about what is getting in the way from us building houses that are affordable for working Californians. And I think people have starting to realize that part of this is overregulation, multiple jurisdictions, multiple permits, and zoning problems. I can say, like, I have friends, by the way, who are just trying to build a house here where I live in Los Angeles, and they'll have to wait 14 to 16 months just for, just for, I think it's called the SICA, SICA, CQ, CQ. California Environment Quality Act, CECA.

So, I mean, 16 months of just shouldering, carrying costs just so that they can build one home where a previous home had already existed is, you know, a little bit missing the plot. Absolutely unacceptable. Absolutely unacceptable. And so that's what I'm talking about. we have got to change this. We have gotten to shorten the time. It's incredibly expensive, not just for your friends building a single family house. How about for somebody who's trying to build a multifamily apartment building? Right. He's going to, he or she is going to rent out. It is absolutely, we are so over-regulating. We're regulating the point of the perfect is the enemy of the good. We've got to change that. We've got to change outdated zoning rules. But the other thing

that's really true here, Brian. And there is no. one silver bullet here. There are multiple things that have to be done for us to get the results we want. But the other thing we need to do is we need to be using new technology, new innovative waves of building houses to drive down the costs. And so my pledge was a million houses during the four years that I'm governor. And that will be a case of zeroing in explicitly on all the things I just described. And more than that, thinking creatively about how to do this. And I have a lot of ideas about how to build within the existing footprints so that all the permitting completely changes and do it in a way that is more attractive for people like

your friends, better deal for them so that in fact we get the houses built that we so desperately need and that is plaguing California citizens. So really, they're getting. the people who built and run this state make it work on a daily basis are getting run over by the cost of house. And finally, the last issue that I want to talk about is something that's really close to my heart is why I moved out to L.A., which was to work in the entertainment industry. And I've watched over the last 15 years as I've lived here, the industry die down to the point where it almost doesn't feel like an industry town anymore.

And I've watched my own friends who are in the industry move to Canada, move to Georgia, move to Louisiana, move to New Jersey, all because, you know, those states recognize that when you're doing something right, it's worth trying to invest to try to take that industry away. California's been super slow to offer up the same incentives and tax credits that other states have. We've watched our industry dwindle to the point where there's virtually nothing left. This year, luckily, we had the $750 million TV and film tax credit that was extended, putting us still behind Georgia. But frankly, you know, Georgia is still losing industry to the UK, which has more attractive tax credits, and Canada, which has more attractive tax credits. So not only are we not leading in the country, but, you know, frankly, the rest of the world is even beating out the best state in terms of these tax credits.

And so what is your plan to lower business back into Los Angeles and San Francisco? basically to bring it back into California so that the industry that really exports culture to the rest of the world can once again thrive in the state that gave birth to it. Well, Ryan, the first thing that you're talking about is putting in the subsidies that let us compete with the subsidies from other states and other countries. And it is critical that we support our businesses. Look, the film industry is a perfect example of a business that has led the world. It has been the best that has created amazing outcomes, amazing value, great middle class jobs, and has been an absolutely critical part of Los Angeles, California.

And it is critical that we support that industry so that they can compete with other states and operations and other countries. But it goes beyond that because this is very, very comparable to what I was talking about in terms of building. houses. Because yes, it starts with some of those structural political things, but it is also about how long does it take you to get a permit to do production? What are the rules of the road which are dictating what your costs are, both in terms of timing and in terms of technology? And so to a very large extent, there's been an assumption in California that our businesses are so good we don't need to take care of them and support them. And that's not true.

we do. It is critical for us that our businesses support. The film industry, as I said, is one that has supported middle-class jobs throughout L.A. And so from my standpoint, particularly now when L.A.'s had some tough times over the last year, it is critical we support those industry, that we support those working people, and that we understand the job of government. It's not just to deal directly with people and make sure that we're giving, we're solving the affordability crisis for working families in California. It's also solving the affordability crisis for businesses, because this is the best place to start a business. This is the best state in the world to grow a business. It's also the most expensive place, and we're going to have to deal with

that structural. In terms of specifics, do you have a plan in terms of what you would be looking to back in terms of some type of tax credit or subsidy for the entertainment industry? Let me say this. We are going to have to, when I become governor, everything is going to have to be compared to everything else. So when we go and look, what I will do is go line by line on the costs of production in Los Angeles, California, and look to see where are the places without getting rid of necessary regulation, but the places where we can reduce costs dramatically to see where people are doing out competing us and make sure we change those, Brian. But that is going to be a job

going in. I looked at what was past this year, which was $750 million, and I understand that. But to me, in every one of these instances, it's a change in the way we view the relationship between government and Californian citizens and their need to be able to afford to live here and government and California businesses where you have to understand, we want to We want them to be good citizens of our state, and we want to support them by providing an ecosystem, an atmosphere that lets them succeed on a global basis. You know, I'd asked Eric Swalwell this question, and he backed a $3 billion tax credit. I've personally been in favor of an uncapped tax credit. There was an impact study done by L-AEDC after the $350 million tax credit, so not this iteration of the tax credit.

one, and it showed that for every dollar that was invested, that was, every dollar that was offered up as part of the tax credit, that it returned a dollar seven. And that wasn't as expansive a study as I think the state would have liked, because it doesn't show full downstream impacts. It's not just, you know, above the line and below the line performers and producers and writers, actors, whatever it may be. It's also local businesses. It's also restaurants and its florists and its hotels. All of that kind of flourishes as the result of investing in this industry. And so is there a world where, depending on what things look like, you know, looking at impact studies, depending on what things look like when you do your

research into this, that you would support something in the ballpark of what Swalwell is suggesting, which is $3 billion, or even what I'm suggesting, which is an uncap tax credit so that we can bring all business back? We can all make up numbers in the air. And it's easy for me to agree to something. But the truth is this, when the time comes, we're going to have a specific budget, we're going to have a certain amount of money. We're going to have to look and see what the competing needs are. But I will say this, do I consider it a critical aspect of Los Angeles's success to make sure that the entertainment industry continues to be led from Los Angeles, that it continues to provide the kind of middle class employment that it has

traditionally? Absolutely. And will I, but to me, it's a question of, Just subsidies is just a start. You know, from my standpoint, looking at all the costs and changing the way we do business as a state government and local governments to make it more, less expensive to produce entertainment in Los Angeles is critical. So the idea of throwing out a big number, I consider to be superficial.

The critical question is, are we providing enough money and an environment for them to compete? and succeed worldwide. And that would be my goal. I think the idea of knowing exactly what the right number is, is sibling. All right. Well, we will leave it there. Tom Sire, thank you so much. And for anybody looking to donate to his campaign, I'm going to put the link to the website right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. Best luck in the campaign trail. Thanks, Brian. Thank you very much.

I'm joined now by POTSafe America's Tommy Vitor. Tommy, thanks for joining me. Great to see you. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Almost. Almost. Yeah, we're almost there. So, So, Tommy, we just saw a big expose that seems to be rubbing Trump and Republicans the wrong way. A lot of rubbing. From the New York Times saying that Donald Trump is slowing down, that his age is catching up with him. So first and foremost, to what extent, walk us through a little bit about what this expose showed. And I want to talk about whether you think it actually matters. Yeah.

Breaking news, Brian. Trump is old. The headline was Trump faces realities of aging in office. Can you imagine a headline that will piss him off more, by the way, like an insecure man who just like can't grow up? So a couple specifics in this story that are worth noting. Trump recently had an MRI, and we have zero information about why, what it was for. When asked about it by reporters, he said, I have no idea what they analyzed. But whatever they analyzed, they analyzed it well.

And they said that I had as good a result as they've ever seen. So does that seem credible to you? I'm convinced. I'm persuaded. No further questions here on the defense rests. They did an analysis of his schedule. Basically, he starts at noon and he ends at five. which doesn't seem like a full work day to me.

It's giving, it's giving sleepy Joe. It's giving very sleepy Joe, sleepy Joe. Sleepy Don. Trump's total number of events has decreased by nearly 40% from 2017. That's a lot. And then he's got the weird thing on his hand. Yeah. That we don't know what it is.

You know, I think the irony of all of this is that we really wouldn't even be talking about it, if not for Donald Trump himself, making the age of the president, the principal issue that this country has to contend with. And so after four years, a Republicans hammering. hammering away at this over and over and over again, that's why this has become such a potent topic of discussion is because of these Republicans themselves. This is them getting foisted on their own pittard, right? Is it foisted? Yeah, foisted away. And so I just think that's that the only reason that we are sitting here talking about this right now is owed entirely to Donald Trump, who at, what was he, was 77, 78 years old when he was making these attacks

against Joe Biden, recognizing that of course he was going to try to run. run again. Like, how is this not setting himself up for failure in just a couple of years when he would be the new oldest president this country's ever had? Donald, you know you're going to age, right? Not a long-term thinker, as we learned. Although, Joe Biden has a chance to do a really funny tweet here. He tweet out the article, maybe a link to some Depends, you know, like, Welcome to the Club. Donnie, we all age. It would be very funny to kind of wrap your heads around him. Look, I do think, I don't think most voters think Trump is old in the way they thought Biden was old, just because Biden's decline was so visible.

There was a lot of, like, shuffling and their communications issues. I do, though, think it's worth thinking about one of Trump's strengths as a candidate as a politician is that he just projects, he projects as strong and decisive. And, you know, people think he's make strong decisions. And, you know, if they start to think, like, oh, maybe not. Maybe he's lost his step. Maybe he's getting weak. Maybe he's slowing down. Like, that'll chip away.

Yeah. And especially given the fact that there's not, like, some. else can just, you know, come up and fill the void left by an increasingly slowing down Trump because he doesn't want to allow that. He doesn't allow anybody else to get the attention. And J.D. Ben sucks. And J.D. Van sucks, which doesn't help things along either. But it's not like he's going to make way for, like, his heir to come and, you know, be the spokesperson for this administration. He wants it to be him. It will always be him. And so we're stuck in a situation or they're stuck in a situation where they've got somebody who's slowing down, who's becoming

increasingly, I mean, you know, and like he's always, he's always been kind of incoherent, but increasingly incoherent off of the already low bar that he said for himself. And everybody's so afraid of him because he is, he is so relentless in his attacks against anybody who doesn't show blind deference to him. And so no one has the courage to step up. I mean, even, even Ted Cruz just barely the other day when he was asked if he was going to run in 2020, it was notable in the sense that he didn't just come out and say, no, no, I couldn't possibly do that. Donald Trump is my leader today, tomorrow, and always. You know, he didn't do that. But even still, I mean, like, you know, Trump is a lame duck president. And the fact that even

still, Ted Cruz was too afraid to just come out and say, yes, I'm going to run for president. And, you know, it's going to be a long road. And we have a lot of stuff to fix in this country, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But even still, he couldn't do that because of the way that Donald Trump operates. Yeah, because Trump is still kind of soft. off-floating this third-term thing, despite it being completely unconstitutional. Thereby freezing the whole field against his own party. Yeah, and he'll be like kind of anointing Rubio, but also anointing J.D. Vance and sort of having to fight it out. It feels very, it feels very Logan Roy. Oh, yeah. It's Don and Eric. Is it going to be, is it going to be, is it going to be, you know.

They're all hateable characters, though. That's the moral of the story. Yeah, Donald Trump, he is the center of the MAGA universe. He's the son they all revolve around. He is him, but he increasingly needs hymns. So, you know, we'll see how this goes long term. Did you just try to do a plug for hymns in the middle of the show? Yeah. They're not even a sponsor. I don't know. The pun works. All right.

Well, on that great segue, I want to move over to one more topic that a lot of us have been focusing on, and that is Margie Tiller Green, who is one of the few people who is willing to speak out against dear leader. And so today, in the aftermath of Mike Sernovich, kind of, I guess, needling her. her. He's this right-wing provocateur commentator, needling her and saying that she needs to serve out her full second term. She took to Twitter, quote tweeted that, and wrote, and I'm going to put that right here on the screen, oh, I haven't suffered enough for you while you post all day behind a screen. Do I have to stay until I'm assassinated like our friend Charlie Kirk? Will that be good enough for you then? Shit posting on the internet all day isn't fighting. Get off your

ass and run for Congress. I fought harder than anyone in the real arena, not social media. put down your little pebbles and put your money where your mouth is. I love that. I mean, zero fucks left to give Marjorie Taylor Green. I got to ask first and foremost on this front, what impact do you think that this is going to have that her kind of feeling unburdened, unrestrained may have on other Republicans who have, you know, all thus far felt like they were just kind of under the thumb of Donald Trump.

You can't say an ill word of the God King. now to see his most loyal foot soldier come out and so thoroughly, freely rebuke him. Do you think that has any impact? Or is everybody else just saying, like, nah, I just, you know, she's retiring. That's good for her. But I want to keep my job. And so fuck that. I'm just going to keep quiet.

Yeah, it's a good question. I do think, look, he looks weakened because of the whole Epstein files fiasco. And that's not over yet, right? I mean, in 30 days or however, you know, whatever the clock's run down already, we are going to see some sort of release of new files. And I assume another fight about what the administration is withholding. So Trump is weakened on that front. I think that courage begets courage in politics, like there's strength in numbers.

If a bunch of members see Marjorie Taylor Green willing to speak the truth, maybe that will make them feel like they can too. Also, messengers matter in politics. Like Marjorie Taylor Green and Rokana can say the same thing, but like audiences are going to hear it differently. Yeah. And if Marjorie Taylor Green is out there... She has clout with her audience. She has clout and credibility, and they listen to her, and she gets fed into their algorithm in a way that, like, you and I never will. And so in the long term, like, I think this could do some damage.

No, I mean, I think it's important. Look, politics makes for really strange bedfellows. And, you know, as far as Marjorie Tilly Green is concerned, because I know that a lot of people have a lot of trouble accepting the fact that it feels like there should be an alliance between Marjorie Tilla Green and Democrats right now. I think look at it this way, if Marjorie Tellegrine is agreeing with us, it's not like we're agreeing with her. It could be that Marjorie Telle Green is agreeing with us. And if that's what you have to tell yourself so that it feels more palatable. But again, like, you know, this isn't about purity test. This is about figuring out what coalition you can, you know, cobble together to persuade a few people and to your exact point, if Marjorie Telle Green is able to reach people that you or I or any

Democrats are not going to be able to reach, then you take what you can get. But you're right. I think her coming out and saying that this is an administration that's not focused on affordability, this is an administration that is not fulfilling its promises, this is an administration that's tried to suppress the Epstein files. That's going to at least give some insight to an audience that's otherwise kind of protected, insulated from all of this stuff. I mean, you and I have spoken at length about the extent to which Fox and right-wing media

are this hermetically sealed bubble around the people that consume that kind of stuff. And often, I mean, it's like a joke at this point, but oftentimes when some major news is breaking, like the Epstein files, getting voted on in Congress, you know, in the House or the Senate, it'll be like CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, all talking about the Epstein files getting voted on to release.

And then Fox News will be like, here's how to, you know, brine your turkey for the holidays. Exactly. Special report. Nine hours of coverage on how to bring up. grind your turkey. Yeah. And so I think when you have instances like this where you do have someone who has direct

access to these people and you can get good information to shine through, then you take those opportunities. Yeah, you have right-wing media is these hermetically sealed bubbles, you know, a little submarine or whatever. But, you know, if MTG lets one rip in the submarine, you know, it's going to smell extra bad. It's going to be extra potent. And I think that's what's happening here.

Yeah, just silent the whole time cooking that one up. Silent but deadly. Marjorie Taylor Green. And listen, to your point earlier, like, you can say that you liked what Marjorie Taylor Green said about X without endorsing what she said about Y. We're all adults here. Politics is a game of addition, not subtraction. Look at what Rokana and Thomas Massey did. They built a coalition around the release of the Epstein files. And they created a process that has been more damaging to Donald Trump than maybe anything else Congress has done. So I think that's a model we should all try to follow. And you're so right there to the point. where Trump even tried to reduce this to just a D versus R thing. Like, he tried to make it, like, all the Epstein files are about Bill Clinton and Larry Summers and Reed Hoffman and J.P. Morgan Chase, that very Democratic bank, you know, classic Democrat bank. And thinking that politics for everybody else works the same way as politics for him,

which is to say, you know, if you have your, you know, somebody in the Republican Party, all of his cult members will jump to his aid. And so he thinks that if he can just invoke Bill Clinton's name, then all of the Democrats will just jump to Bill Clinton's aid. And like, if Bill Clinton did something wrong, fuck Bill Clinton. If any of these people did something wrong, fuck those people. And so that backfired. But you can see how he was trying to reduce this down into just a partisan squabble

so that it could fall into the same, you know, fall into the same trap that everything else falls into. And you're right. I mean, the fact that there was Thomas Massey there lent a lot of credibility and credence to this thing that otherwise would not have. existed if it was led by like Rokana, Jamie Raskin, Shifty Adam Schiff. Yeah, Chuck Schumer, exactly. Yeah, it's good news.

Good work by them. And, you know, it's nice to see little cracks. Little fissures, yeah, we'll take it. With that said, also important to create more of these fissures is to continue to build up progressive media. So for folks who are watching right now, if you're not subscribed to Podsafe America's YouTube channel, I'm going to put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video.

Tommy, as always, thanks for the time. Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for having me. Also, please, if you're not subscribed to Brian's channel, what are you doing? The button is literally right there. Just click it. It's free content. It's great stuff.

Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Gobble, gobble. Thanks again to Mark Kelly, Eric Swalwell, Tom Steyer, and Tommy Vitor. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie,

and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating in a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to Brian Tyler Cohen.com to learn more.