No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Trump eyes troop deployment in Chicago-- for an insidious reason

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Trump is prepared to send troops into Chicago– and there’s a much more insidious reason for it than he’s letting on. Brian interviews Governor Wes Moore about redrawing his state’s maps, Tommy Vietor about Republicans disastrous town halls, attorney Norm Eisen about Trump’s latest loss in court, and Zach Wahls about his run for Senate in Iowa.Shop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Donald Trump is prepared to send troops into Chicago, and there is a much more insidious reason for it than he's letting on. And I've got four interviews this week. I speak with Governor Westmore about redrawing his state's maps, Tommy Vitor about Republicans' disastrous town halls, attorney Norm Eisen about Trump's latest loss in court, and Zach Walls about his run for Senate in Iowa. I'm Brian Taylor Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. The latest pronouncement from Trump is that he's preparing to send troops in the Chicago. And there are two reasons for this. Both of them are nefarious, but, one that is truly cause for alarm. The first reason, pretty clear on his face.

Trump is an autocrat, and autocrats want centralized power and control. By putting his boots on the ground in the cities, he can effectively co-opt power that would otherwise belong to the states. Anyone on the right who claims to be a constitutionalist while Donald Trump tramples on the 10th Amendment is like showing their entire ass right now. But then again, I know it's not exactly breaking news that Republicans are hypocrites. Now, he may very well do what he did in L.A., which was to send the troops in, knowing that doing so would incite

violence, it did, and he used that as a pretext to be able to retroactively justify his decision. Like, the guy's not looking to quell any violence. He is expressly looking to exacerbate it. But the second reason here is more worrisome. And if you follow my content, you know that this is something that I've been relentless about calling out. This isn't only about exercising power now. It's about laying the foundation to be able to do it during the election. Remember, Trump already tried to seize voting machines in Georgia. He already tried to block certification of the election in Congress. He already incited and insurrection. He already incited and insurrection. at the U.S. Capitol, but he didn't have the tools in place to be able to succeed.

Like, for as horrific as he was, Bill Barr called Donald Trump's stolen election claims bullshit. And of course, he had nobody in the states willing to carry out his plans. But we're in a different world now. Pam Bondi won't stop Trump from acting on his bogus stolen election claims. Neither will Dan Bongino or Cash Patel or Stephen Miller. And now, if he's got boots on the ground because he's deployed these troops to the states under false pretenses, and he asked them to seize the voting machines, what's going to be? going to stop them? And of course, the answer to that question may come to us soon.

Gavin Newsom is suing Trump in court in California over his troop deployment. He did try to get an injunction when the troops were first deployed and the courts didn't do that. But their refusal to offer an injunction back then doesn't offer any insight into how they're going to rule on the merits of this case. So it could truly go either way. But the point is that if Trump loses, then other states now have a legal framework to be able to challenge his troop deployment across the country. And by the way, if Trump appeals his loss and loses again in the appeals court, then that becomes legal precedent where other states could point to that, and that's even worse for Trump. And of course, on the flip side, Trump could win, which would establish a framework

for him to be able to justify his deployments elsewhere. So it's all very much in the air right now, but the point is that we have to defeat these efforts. We have to make noise about these efforts because they represent something fundamentally dangerous, not just to the people in these cities whose lives are being upended by these troops. But to our general autonomy, like it used to be a right-wing position that the people have to be protected from tyranny now they're the ones perpetuating it.

One note of hope here, when we fight these battles, we generally find that the law is on our side. When Trump brought 65 cases to court after the 2020 election, he lost all but one, which was nothing, shortened to ballot cure deadline in Pennsylvania.

So we will continue to fight, but the most important thing is that we are clear-eyed about his intentions here so that nobody's caught off guard. Next up are my interviews with Wes Moore, Tommy Vitor, Norm Eisen, and Zach Walls. I'm joined now by the governor of Maryland, Westmore. Thanks for joining me. Thanks, Brian. Good to see you, man. So the last time we spoke, it was kind of this theoretical discussion about maps and redistricting.

Texas had not yet moved forward with their new maps to grab five seats from the Democrats. That's all a reality now. Those maps have passed the state legislature. They'll be signed by Greg Abbott, I'm sure, imminently. And so in terms of what you're able to do to kind of counteract this power grab by Republicans in Maryland, what would be the impetus for some move forward? I know that you said you're open to it, that you've been speaking to the legislature, but what would it take for actual, like, to go from hypothetical or theoretical to actually, okay, let's get moving on this. Well, I think everybody in Maryland right now is looking at what's happening around the country.

And as the country continues to move in this direction, I think that means other states to include Maryland. We'll have to look to evaluate to make sure that our maps are fair as well. You know, and honestly, the thing about it, Brian, is like, like, I actually can't stand this. And I think it's actually one of the things that people don't like about politics is the whole gerrymandering and, you know, mid-cycle, you know, without any new data, without any new census data, people saying, oh, let's rearrange maps. But, but this is what the president is forcing. That, and again, the thing that gets me about it is, it's actually very similar to what he did in what he did in Georgia, where he calls up election officials. and says, hey, find me votes.

And now he's basically doing the same thing, except with your redistricting. And again, this was the thing that he did in Georgia that actually got him indicted. And now he's going around calling different states and saying, hey, can you get me X new congressional districts? Can you give me Y new congressional districts? So I think it's one of the things that there's just continue to be this feeding

into the thing that makes people absolutely exhaust about politics in the first place. And so I actually wish in an ideal world you get Congress, to actually pass legislation that actually bans gerrymandering, right? If Congress could do that, you could actually, I think, help to solve this thing where you say you cannot do mid-cycle gerrymandering of our congressional districts. However, if Congress is not going to do this and if Congress is not going to do the right thing, then 100% all options to be on the table and will be on the table in the state of Maryland as we continue to see how this thing continues to evolve.

Do you view Maryland's position as being there to neutralize if we see, see this kind of thing happen in Missouri, for example, or Indiana. If they move forward, does that very much in the same way that Newsom viewed his effort to neutralize what happened in Texas? Would you view Maryland's place here to be to neutralize what would happen hypothetically in Missouri or Indiana? I would look at Maryland's position as we're just looking to make sure that we have fair maps to.

That if these other states are looking to have fair maps, then Maryland's going to have fair maps too. Okay. So there's no like trigger mechanism or anything like that. More broadly, how do you view Maryland's Supreme Court as possibly playing into this? Would if Maryland's officials did move forward, if you did move forward with maps to kind of counteract these paragraphs that are happening on the right in the national environment, how would the Supreme Court possibly serve as an impediment to these efforts?

Yeah, well, it is something that the Maryland Constitution does matter in all of this. And I think it's something that the state legislature are the members of our general assembly are going to have to align because, you know, it is something that the general assembly has to be involved with with the process. The general assembly has to make sure that there is legal grounding and legal standing to be able to make sure that everything is, you know, everything is above board and can happen. But I also know that that's something that they are actively talking about already, that, you know, that we are that we are in communication with them on it because we have to make sure. that we don't have something where elected officials are choosing their voters, voters have to choose the elected officials. And at the same time, in the absence of Congress saying that there is going to be no gerrymandering in mid-cycle, it means that our state is very clear that we are watching, we are observing, and all options for us to be able to respond around the table.

Okay. Moving over to a different topic, Trump had actually focused in on you this weekend, attacking you for daring, say something critical of dear leader. And one of the things that he threatened because you didn't heap praise onto him, as is expected by Donald Trump, is this threat that he's going to revoke funding for a bridge in your state. So first and foremost, can you talk about where that funding did come from? Because he made it sound as if he's responsible for heaping this funding onto you and just as easily as he gave it to the state of Maryland, he can take it away.

Yeah, I was actually fascinated about the, level-over visionist history that we continue to see from our president. And yeah, he talks about how he gave me all of this money for the bridge. And as a reminder, that we had on March 26th a year and a half ago where a ship the size of free football fields slammed into the iconic key bridge in Baltimore. And it shut down 13% of our state's economy. It meant thousands of workers were laid off and we had six construction workers who were fixing potholes in the middle of the night who lost their lives. And we said that very first morning that we would stop in nothing to make sure that we are both going to make sure that our workers were supported and our small businesses

were supported, that we would make sure that we could bring closure and comfort to the families. And it took about five weeks, we were able to bring all the bodies and return all the bodies to the families. And also that we would reopen the Francis Scott Key Bridge. and clear the federal channel. And when people told us it would take 11 months, we got it cleared in 11 weeks, really put up on a case study on how to work together

to be able to respond in tragedy. And it was a bipartisan group from Congress who actually passed the legislation and made it a stat, put it in statute, that there was going to be 100% cost share. So a cost share between the state of Maryland and the federal government to ensure that we could speed up the process

of rebuilding the Francis Scott Key Bridge. And we have honored that promise, where we have moved faster than expected, not just to clear the federal channel, but also complete the demo and start the rebuilding process. And that bill was signed by both Republicans and Democrats in Congress and then eventually signed by President Joe Biden. Donald Trump was not involved in that.

His signature is not on the statute. So a threat of being able to, quote, unquote, take away funding for the key bridge is a very empty threat because it's not his signature that made it happen in the first place. And so I tell the people of our state, you know, don't be concerned about someone taking away something from you when they didn't give it to you in the first place. And that's exactly what the situation is.

What does it say more broadly, notwithstanding the fact that he was not involved in the allocation of this funding, but what does it say that his beef with you personally? Because, again, you didn't heap praise onto him, which is what he expects from everybody in this country, that his response here is to her. hurt an American state and American citizens who live in that state because he didn't get, you know, like the amount of loyalty that he expected from one person. And so he's going to

hurt everybody else as the result of that, despite the fact that his job as president is to keep this country as prosperous and as safe as it can be. Yeah, I was very clear, Brian, when he first won the election, I said to people my state, listen, I will work with anyone, but I will bow down to no one. I'm not built that way. And the people of our state, know that. But I look at his decision and what he said recently about the Key Bridge. And what I say is it tracks because this is the same person that has taken away that is now pulled back hundreds of millions of dollars and previously allocated capital to the state of Maryland. This is someone who has pulled away resources from NIH. This is someone who's pulled away research from Social

Security. This is someone who's now responsible for firing over 12,000 Marylanders who are federal workers, people who are doing things like making sure that our food is safe and making sure that our critical infrastructure is protected. This is a person who is denied federal support to our folks in Western Maryland who suffered historic floods. And then FEMA has, despite the fact that we not just hit, but exceeded the benchmark on what is required in order to apply for federal relief funds, that FEMA then turned around and said that no support of Maryland is warranted, that this is a person who was decided in the middle of a press conference without speaking to anybody about it,

nor to actually a Congress or a GSA that put it in place that the FBI building was not coming to the state of Maryland. So this is a person who these are not glancing blows at Maryland. These are direct shots that have happened ever since he has become the new president of the United States.

And what's really wild about it is when you're talking about doing things like declining FEMA funds to Allegheny in Garrett County. When you're talking about things like saying, I just pull back bridge financing, which is going to most impact communities like Dundalk, do you know they all have in common? They all voted for the president. And now these are the communities that he is deciding to go after and leave behind because he has a personal beef. You know, this is the level of vitriol and childishness that becomes so tiring and exhausting for people when it comes to politics.

And I remember when Maryland, when Western Maryland had its floods, we were some of the first boots on ground. And I remember never once, even when people say those are deeply, those are Republican areas. You know, I reminded them, you know what I never once asked a single one of my soldiers when I was leading soldiers in combat? What's your political party? But it's very obvious that this is something that the pain that they want to inflict on Maryland, it is petty, it is partisan, and it is punishing. And it is deeply unfortunate. Because when we're seeing how this continues to show itself, seeing how hundreds of thousands of Marylanders are now about to lose their health care because of these decisions, how Marylanders

are watching the price of everything go up from their energy rates to the clothes they're buying to the food that they're eating. This is petty. It is partisan and it is punishing. And frankly, unfortunately for this president and this administration, it's par for the course. well another another testament to exactly that is within those you know threats against you he he suggested sending the military into baltimore as well very much in the same way that he's done in my city of los angeles and that he's done in dc and so can i have your reaction first and foremost to the prospect of him using the u.s military uh to not to be sent overseas but to go into the streets of yet another american city and i told them and i was very clear that

that I would not authorize the usage of our National Guard being able to be deployed to any of our cities or others because, you know, I said not only is this something that is not sustainable. I mean, the American people need to know this is a deep waste of taxpayer dollars. There's well over a million dollars a day that is now being spent on having members of the National Guard go and patrol communities in a way that they are not trained for and in a way they not sign up for. I've said that we were not authorize it because it is not scalable. You're not going to send the National Guard into all America's major cities, especially when, frankly, a lot of the people who were patrolled and deployed now to Washington, D.C., are actually from states that have

higher crime rates than have some of the highest crime rates in the country. So who's going to deploy their cities when they're actually walking around Washington, D.C.? And I told them it is unconstitutional, because this is a direct violation of the 10th Amendment and this is deeply disrespectful to the members of the National Guard. And as someone who's actually worn the uniform and deployed overseas, I actually take my responsibility to them seriously. And I take my responsibility to their family seriously. And to ask them to go and do activate for a mission that is theatrical and to a mission that they are not trained for is deeply problematic and frankly, deeply offensive to. me and to a lot of other people who have actually worn the uniform in this country. And so,

so I, you know, I have said and I will continue to say that I will not authorize it. And if there's one thing that I know, I know the constitution and I know the oath that I took and I plan on standing by both. What do you make of the fact that he continuously threatens or actually follows through on these threats to deploy the military into blue cities and blue states, but refuses to do so when it comes to red states where there are cities that have, you know, objectively higher per capita crime rates than in those blue states. I think it just goes to show how completely partisan this decision is. These decisions are not data-backed.

These decisions are not consistent with fact. And I say especially when you're talking about coming into places that have actually, for example, if you look at what's happened in Maryland, Maryland's had amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States over the past two and a half years. Now, when I first became the governor, that Maryland saw over a 10-year period before I became the governor, how the homicide rate had nearly doubled, the non-fatal shooting rate did double. Baltimore City went eight straight years of 300-plus homicides. In 2022, the year before I became the governor, Baltimore is averaging almost a homicide a day.

Now, since our inauguration, we've had amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America, that the last time the homicide rate was this low in Baltimore, I was not born yet, and that we've done it by working together with the mayor, with our state's attorney, with local law enforcement, with community groups, to be able to say, we know we have more work to do, but no one is watching faster drops than what we are seeing in Baltimore and what we are seeing in the state of Maryland right now. And so I, you know, so my invitation, when I invited the president to come, come to a safety walk with us, uh, that I, I guess, offended him.

But the reason is because he can learn something. And instead of spouting ignorance from the Oval Office, come be educated about the things that are actually working, about what it looks like when people on the ground are actually collaborating and working together on these issues and stop making theatrical political plays that frankly just serve as distractions of the fact that your economic policies are just making life harder for every single America. Well, you say that his decision is not data-backed, but, you know, it's very possible he could just fire the person he was giving him actual data and replace them with somebody who gives him the data that he actually wants, and then suddenly it's data-backed. Okay, last thing, I'm going to play a clip of something that Donald Trump said today.

Baltimore is a horrible, horrible deathbed. It's a deathbed. I know Governor Moore said, oh, he wants to take a walk with me. He mentioned it a derogatory tone. I said, no, no, I'm the president of the United States. clean up your crime and I'll walk with you. But it's tremendous crime. But he was trying to be derogatory. He doesn't have what it takes. But he's trying to be derogatory. And I met him at the Army Navy game. They said, oh, there's Governor Morehead. He'd love to see you. He came over to me, hugged me, shook my hand. You were there. He said, so you're the greatest president in my lifetime. I said, but it's really nice that you say that. I'd love you to say it publicly, but I don't think you can do that so it's okay. But you're doing a fantastic job. I want to just shake your hand. Thank you very much, Governor. That was it. And then every time I see him on television,

he's knocking the hell out of me, but that's all right. It's called politics. So apparently, you had a conversation where you privately told Donald Trump, sir, because it's important that you include the sir, sir, you're the greatest president of my lifetime. Gov, care to explain? I literally laughed out loud when I saw this. You know, it's, you know, and I'll tell you the story. So he comes up, and first, he was the one who asked and requested to meet. So as he pulls up, as we're at the Army Navy game, because I'm there. And, you know, I'm not, I don't, you know, I don't miss Army Navy games, especially when they're in my state. You know, he comes up and and Amelia said, welcome back to Maryland, you know, Mr. President, and he says, you're a good looking

guy. That was the first thing that came out of his mouth. And then, and then I told him about how we need to make sure that this bridge gets financed and we're on track to get it done. And he said, we're going to help you out. And I said, thank you. And that was the conversation. And what he took out of that was you telling him that he's the greatest president of your lifetime. I mean, it is just, you know, it's, you know, people ask, you know, what do you think? And it's just, it's just difficult to have any, any answer. Besides, as I've always said, you know, don't let, don't let things that don't matter too much, matter too much. you know i'm a person who believes in my integrity uh and i can tell you right now that imaginary

conversation that he revealed from the white house uh not only did not happen but unfortunately it's just a consistent thread and a consistent theme that we are seeing from the president of the united states which is just a deeply sad state of affairs yeah just a recurring pattern where he is trafficking and nothing but delusion um okay well with that said i appreciate uh the time today appreciate the work you're doing in maryland and uh you know as this i'm sure this this this map fight is going to continue ramping up. This map cold war that we're engaged in right now at the hands of Donald Trump and these very obsequious Republican governors. I'm sure that this isn't the last that we'll speak about that. So, Governor Moore, appreciate your time today.

I appreciate yours and go Ravens. I'm joined now by the co-host of POTSave America and POTSave the World, Tommy Vitor. Tommy, thanks for joining me. Brian, great to see you. So the talk of the town right now is Gavin Newsom and his press account that are just kind of driving Fox News, Trump, Republicans, up the wall. And so I'm curious, first and foremost, as we think about this, as we think about the effectiveness of this, beyond just, you know, is it funny? Is it getting retweets and likes and whatnot? If what you think about in terms of how really moving this kind of stuff is. Yeah. Well, like, I mean, win number one, we're talking about it, right?

Like there are a bit... In the attention economy, that counts for a lot. Yeah, there have been stories in Politico. There was a big segment on CNN. I mean, people are noticing what Gavin Newsom is doing, and it is getting him a lot of attention. And I think it's happening at a time where Democrats are desperate for the Democratic Party to fight. They want a fighter. They want someone to push back on what Trump is doing. They're seeing him deploy troops to the streets of Los Angeles where we live in Washington, D.C.

And they're like, who was pushing back? And they see Gavin Newsom, this account, at least, like fucking with Trump all day, every day. And they like it. Yeah. And what do you think that this does in terms of an incentive structure for other Democrats to kind of meet the moment with the same urgency as Newsom is. Yeah, I think it's going to draw people into more fights or at least like speaking out on more issues publicly, doing more interviews and just being more engaged because Gavin Newsom feels like omnipresent the last couple of months.

You know, it was like basically from the fires, which is what eight months ago until now, he's been pushing back against Trump. He's pushing this big redistricting pledge to try to save us from what Texas is doing in Trump's efforts to basically rig the map so we can't win the midterm election. So I think like there's probably a lot of Democrats who are thinking about running for president in 2028 who are wondering, how do we catch up to this guy right now? Do you think that there is enough of an incentive structure that he's building? I mean, I know that we have, we have some footage here from the polling as it relates to, as it relates to Newsom's new press strategy. I think we can roll that clip. Yeah, I think it absolutely has been

working in terms of generating attention, which is what he's trying to do, right? I mean, take a look here. Let's take a look right at the at gov press office followers on X. That's of course where you get those sort of the account where Newsom post those Trump style mocking types of tweets. Get this. That account, get this. Up 450% in terms of the number of followers since mid-June. And it's not just on Twitter X where Newsom is gaining. Even on TikTok and Instagram, his followers are up over a million since January alone. My goodness gracious. And more than that, Laura, more than that. What about Google? What about those Google searches form? Get this daily Google searches for Gavin Newsom up like a rocket.

What are we talking about since June 1, up 1,300 percent compared to August 1st? Look at that. Up 500 percent. So is there a world in which other Democrats who are seeking higher office, who are running for Senate, running for the House, running for president, don't see that and say, hey, maybe there's something to this strategy of not being safe, not being offensive, not being poll tested, not being focused grouped, and just go out there, do the thing as aggressively as possible, And we'll see, you know, we'll see exactly what we want to come out of it.

I mean, look, I think the risk is they see what Gavin Newsom is doing and they do like an imitation of it, which that won't work. Like, Gavin has carved out this lane. This is kind of going to be his thing now. We don't need like, we don't need everybody doing the all caps tweets. No, imagine like Mayor Pete's out there. An army of just like Trump imitators out there, just trip Trump mockers, the whole Democratic Party. Party of trolls all of a sudden. No, I think what they're going to see is that Democrats want a fighter.

And Gavin Newsom is giving them that. fighter. And I think that's very important. But also like, look, the prediction markets, I'm not sure what to make of them in politics, but the prediction markets on who will get the Democratic nomination for Gavin Newsom, he went from 11% in June to 24% now. So that means these odds makers think his odds of being the Democratic nominee for president have doubled. Yeah. And granted, I mean, again, you take that all with a grain of salt because, you know, what happens now might not be anything similar to what happens a week from now or a month from now. I certainly didn't sit there in January of 2020,

thinking that the world would look the way it did in March of 2020. So all of those caveats notwithstanding. Even though you were in Wuhan. I was. At that wet market. You know, I love farmer's markets, and I especially love pangolin. Pangolins, and you know about, you know about how obsessed I have to be. I know.

Wrong place at the wrong time. Yeah, Pangolin. But, you know, I think what he's doing is smart for two reasons. It's not just, it's not just the trolling, right? I mean, that is entertaining unto itself, and I do enjoy it unto itself, like in a vacuum. But I think it's smart because it's driving people to his pages. It's driving Google searches up for him. But he's wielding it in a way that's responsible because, look, we're facing an existential threat at the hands of Trump and this Republican Party.

They are right now trying to redraw these maps mid-cycle to scientifically engineered Democrats out of office to make sure that we don't have the opportunity to ever win again. So yes, it's existential for Democrats. yes, is existential for democracy. He's out there making that case. And in large part, one of the only ones making that case. I mean, there are a few others who are doing it forcefully. I mean, Beto has been doing it really forcefully. James Telarico has been doing it really forcefully. J.B. Pritzker has been really good as well. But there are not that many people talking about the threats that we're contending with right now in the same way that he is, certainly who aren't taking the action that he is, which counts for a hell of a lot more. So I think that he deserves credit,

not just for figuring out a way to break through in this attention economy, which already is an accomplishment onto itself. But once he's got those eyeballs on him, he's wielding that attention in a responsible way. Exactly. Yeah, he's not just trolling for the sake of trolling. He's growing his accounts and getting tons of people to Google him at a time when he's about to embark on this campaign to get California to change the way we do redistricting and to do so in a temporary manner to fight back against a huge threat from Trump. So I think you're right. It's trolling with a purpose. And I think it's been very valuable. And I think what's most telling here is the extent to which Republicans don't know how to handle

it. I mean, Fox News is freaking out. Let's throw to the clip of one Fox News host trying to navigate his way through attacking Gavin Newsom while at the same time ignoring the fact that what Gavin Newsom is doing is imitating Donald Trump. Gavin Newsom, meantime posting this on X, Liz, using all capitals, of course, trying to mock Trump, use Trump style, has been doing this for a while now. He says, quoting, Trump, Trump just fled the podium with Putin.

No questions, nothing. Total low energy. The man looked like he'd just eaten three buckets of KFC with Vlad. Admit it, Donnie, Jay. You're terrified because this was the worst week of your life because of me, Gavin C. Newsom. I think he's trying to be funny. I think, I mean, I don't know what he's trying to do, but it comes across as childish. And what are you, the governor of the biggest state in the union?

What are you doing? Tommy, your reaction to him. Fox News, simply not understanding what it is that Gavin Newsom is trying to accomplish here. We're not very self-aware over at Fox News, are we? I loved, I didn't catch until just now. The, he looks like he's eating three buckets of KFC with lead. Such a random swerp. It's called the weave, Tommy. It's called the weave. Yeah, it's great. I mean, look, Fox has, how many times has Fox played like an hour-long, just incoherent phone interview with Donald Trump where, you know, if you read the transcript, it would look just like

one of those Gavin Newsom. Yeah, and they're like, you know what, beautifully put by the president of the United States, we've got a new tone here. He's really just, really just, you know, fitting into the job more and more on a daily basis. And it's not just Fox that's getting mad. I mean, a bunch of White House spokespeople are like crashing out and lashing back and attacking Gavin Newsom, but when they do that, they just give him more attention. And that's not just like attention in terms of there's a back and forth and people like us notice it and read it. It's algorithm. attention, right? Like when you are fighting with Gavin, when you're responding to him,

when you're retweeting him or yelling at him on Twitter, you are making it so that more people see the things he is tweeting out. Well, you know the rule. It's you quote tweet your friends and you screenshot your enemies. Exactly. And these people don't know that because they're so butt hurt what Gavin Newsom

is doing. I'm going to put an image right here on the screen of one of these latest instances of trolling. We've got Tucker Carlson, Hulk Hogan, and Kid Rock all kind of praying at the altar of Gavin Newsom. I would love to know. I would like to have been in the little... The best part is the so nice. So nice.

He makes an AI image of himself and then thanks everybody for it. So nice. I would love to have been in the conversation where they decided which three individuals to put behind Gavin. I think it was an inspired collection. Yeah, I mean, divinely inspired one might say. Yeah. Oh, Hulk.

As it relates to Hulk. Well, look, we're going to take this moment right now to point out the fact that, Pod Save America's YouTube channel, as of this recording right now, is just shy, a few thousand shy of a million subscribers. These guys of Pottsive America are in large part why I do what I do. They are and always have been a huge part of my media diet. And so everybody who's watching, if you are not yet subscribed to Pottsave America's YouTube

channel, go ahead and hit the subscribe button. It doesn't cost anything to do so. It's a great way to support not just their work, which is invaluable, but the independent media ecosystem, the progressive media ecosystem more broadly. Let's make sure that when people come onto YouTube to find news, that they're not automatically sorted into right-wing accounts, that they don't fall into these right-wing rabbit holes right away. So let's elevate the voices of people who are doing good work, and it does not get any better than my friends over at POTSafe America. So again, hit the subscribe button and make sure to support these guys who are doing the hard work every single day.

Thanks, Brian. And also, if you're watching this and you're not subscribed to Brian's channel, please do. Because I believe the fastest growing YouTube channel in the last quarter was Benny Johnson from TPUSA. I think you had like 2.2 million new subscribers in just those three months, which one suggests that they are buying subscribers somehow. And two, though, like that is bad because when people search for normies, search for news on YouTube, they find that crap. Yeah.

Because the algorithm will promote big channels and big accounts like that. We've got to push back. That's exactly right. So for anybody watching, if you're not yet subscribed to both channels, I'm going to put the links right here on the screen. Tommy, appreciate your time. Great to see you, bud. I'm joined now by the founder of Democracy Defenders Fund, Norm Eisen.

Norm, thank you so much for coming on. We have major news right here that really shook up the entire economic world because it puts at risk the independence of the Fed of our entire monetary policy. And that is Donald Trump's decision to try and fire Lisa Cook, who is one of the Fed governors. So can you explain the pushback that's happening at the hands of Lisa Cook right now? Yes, Brian. As you know, the bedrock of our prosperity as a nation, and really the kitchen table strength of American families is that we have a strong dollar, we have a reliable dollar, we have a federal reserve that is in charge of managing issues like inflation. If you attack the independence of the Federal Reserve, their ability to do their job, you weaken the prosperity of every American. And that's just what happened when Donald Trump baselessly announced last night sent a letter saying that federal governor Lisa Cook, the first Federal Reserve governor who's an African American woman in the history of that instance.

institution was being terminated. He claims that it meets the legal standard of four cause, but that's a joke. There's no basis that's been established in law for this termination. Immediately, the dollar weakened, the dollar got worse on exchange rates. That hit all of our pocketbooks. That's the meaning of Fed independence. It keeps us prosperous as a nation. And once again, like with his tariffs, like with the big brutal betrayal, the tax cuts for billionaires taking away health care from average folks, he's hit us in the wallet again, almost as if he intends to harm the American consumer. So I got to ask first and foremost, the only way that Trump has a legal basis to go ahead

and fire Lisa Cook is, as you know, for cause. Now, he's trying to gin up some scandal about mortgage fraud, which is a claim that this administration has leveraged not just on Lisa Cook, but also on other people who they view as political opponents, including Adam Schiff. But can you talk about the legitimacy of this claim as it relates to Lisa Cook? It's utterly ridiculous as to Lisa Cook. The same is true with very similar claims that are being made about Donald Trump's adversaries, Adam Schiff and AG Tish James. In the case of Lisa Cook, what you have is the head of the federal agency that regulates mortgages, a sharp Trump partisan and campaign donor, Bill Pulte, who has launched these smears against these three adversaries of Trump.

Of course, Donald Trump has a historical grudge against Adam Schiff for leading the first impeachment, where I was at counsel, Tish James, for prosecuting his own mortgage wrongdoing. And here with Lisa Cook, it appears what he wants to do is get one of his cronies on the Fed, undermining the independence so it can do what it wants. But as a legal matter, Brian, pause means doing something wrong on the job, inefficient. Neglective duty, malfeasance in office. It's all job-related stuff. Here you have a tweet from Bill Pulte, the Trump partisan, alleging that Lisa Cook did wrong. That is not a legal basis for cause. No wonder she and her lawyers are saying they're going to litigate it.

They should because, as has happened so many hundreds of times, if this matter goes to court, The courts are going to say, what? Again, first Adam Schiff, then this James, now Lisa Cook, give me a break. The courts are going to be very skeptical. As of right now, practically speaking, is Lisa Cook fired? Is she showing up to work? What are we dealing with in terms of the logistics of actually going to her job? Donald Trump's pronouncement that she's fired has no legal basis.

In my view, it's null and void. She says she's going to show up for work. She should show up for work. And of course, she should litigate this matter because what Donald Trump is doing once again, he's abusing the rule of law. He's turning us into a police state, not the United States. We don't have presidents who criminalize their grudges against their political adversaries. That's not what America is about. It's like something out of the nightmares of the 20th century. So that's why the courts have rejected him so often. He's lost another big case today where he sued the entire federal judiciary of the District of Maryland. And a conservative judge, it was not a liberal Democrat, said this is laughable through the case out.

that Donald Trump is doing the same thing with Lisa Cook. There is no pause based on a tweet from Bill Pulte. And so what are next steps now from a legal standpoint? Is her legal team seeking some type of injunction or temporary restraining order so that we can have some clarity here in terms of what happens tomorrow when she tries to show up to work? They've said that they're going to go to court to contest this. And unlike some of the other cases we've seen, The Supreme Court just said that the Federal Reserve is different, is entitled to more protections because it's a uniquely structured quasi-private entity that follows in the distinct historical tradition of the first and second banks of the United States.

What that means is Congress has more power based on the Constitution in our history to protect the Fed. They've done that with Fed governors by saying terminations must be for cause. This is not for cause. So unlike some of the other cases, I think that Lisa Cook and her lawyers led by the brilliant Abby Lowe, I work with him often, his colleagues at Lohlin Associates, they quit big law, they set up on their own to fight for democracy, and they've got themselves an important case here. And I think this is one where there's strong recent Supreme Court precedent from the Roberts Court that helps them. Norm, does it surprise you that as it relates to

Bill Pulte? This guy is in his position solely to offer Donald Trump these baseless predicates to be able to launch attacks against his political opponents. Like, that's what this guy's entire job boils down to. Well, the Trump administration is full of people who, instead of their qualifications for the job or providing their independent judgment, giving their best effort, qualification is loyalty to Donald Trump. But Pulte is taking that to a whole other level by weaponizing mortgage applications against the perceived enemies of Donald Trump. I don't think the courts are going to stand for it. It stinks to high heaven. The judges of every party, Brian, as you know, 200 times. Judges appointed by Bush and Trump, judges appointed by Biden and Clinton and Obama,

have rejected illegalities of this administration. They're trampling the rule of law. But these attacks, criminalizing the political opposition to Donald Trump, are some of the worst abuses. I think the courts are going to see through that. Nobody knows for sure. But it's a noble fight and it's one that must be waged. And those day and day of fights, you and I often talk about them. We've covered so many different cases here. They are how we are going to hang on to this democracy of ours. Norm, can you talk about why Trump is so hell-bent on being able to replace legitimate

members of the Federal Reserve with his own appointed lackeys? He has the idea that if he puts his people on the Fed, that they will lower interest rates, never mind the inflation risk, which is substantial, and that it will goose the economy. He's panicky about the 2026 midterms and the backlash. So he's thrashing about. He tried to find five extra seats in Texas. California's checking him on that.

God bless Governor Newsom and the Californians for pushing back on that. So now he's looking for something else to get him out of this bind that he's created with his rule of law violations and his giveaways to his billionaire cronies. By the way, he likes to take these outrageous actions because it changes the subject from his biggest fear. The Trump Epstein files. We just filed a lawsuit to get a hold of those Trump Epstein files. He wants to change the subject, but he also thinks he's going to help the economy. but Brian, he's hurting the economy, not helping it, because by undermining the functioning of the Fed and the independence of the Fed, he's weakening the dollar.

That means we're all going to pay more for things, and it weakens the economic position of the United States. It puts us all in jeopardy. The strength of our country is being undermined economically by Donald Trump's behavior, plus the tariffs, plus the tax cuts that took away the health care and other benefits from average folks. He's destroying the economy instead of as he thinks goosing it. And you know what? The American people see through him, 37% approval rating. They know what he's doing. They're actually smarter than the elites at times. You know, I think that's such a great point about

his efforts to kind of turbocharge the economy that ultimately are having the complete opposite effect. I mean, this effort to boost the economy by filling the Fed with his own self-appointed lackeys is going to send inflation higher. That's the whole reason the Fed isn't doing it right now, which, by the way, used to be important when Republicans spent the last few years railing against high inflation. It was the whole reason that Joe Biden's approval rating was as low as it was, was as low as it was. And now Donald Trump's approval rating, to that exact point, is as low as Joe Biden's was with inflation rising every single month since March. And so he's only going to exacerbate the very problem that he himself campaigned on fixing. And that's to say nothing about the fact that he's also promised to lower costs and instead has sent them surging with his misguided trade war and has said that he would protect, earn

benefits and entitlements only to cut Medicaid for 17 million Americans and food assistance to the tune of $300 billion. So it really does go to show how Donald Trump just pulled a bait and switch on his own supporters by promising them one thing when he wanted to manipulate people for the money. their votes, but then once he got into power, he's just more interested in the optics that he's doing well, as opposed to actually helping the economy. And of course, if we see any numbers that aren't to his liking and that don't lend themselves to his grand vision that Donald Trump has for himself, he'll just fire the statisticians or anybody who gives them. Kill the messenger.

Right, right. Kill the messengers. That's exactly right. You know, Norm, I do want to take this opportunity for folks who are watching right now. If you're looking to support the invaluable work that Norm and his team are doing on the front lines, which is in the courts. Please, I'm going to put the link to Democracy Defenders Fund right here on the screen. If you'd like to donate, these are the folks who are fighting, again, on the front line. So if you want to be able to donate and help these folks out, you can click the link right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. Norm, I appreciate your time.

Brian, so many people are rightly concerned about the direction of our country. It's so terrific to come on with you and your viewers and listeners to say, hey, there is accountability. The American people are figuring it out. And the courts are an important part, not the only part, but are a very important part of doing that. So have me back any time. Donald Trump is going to fail. And I'll tell your listeners for the for the umpteenth time. that they and your viewers are the ones who represent the hope for this country.

So keep on going, folks. I'm joined now by candidate for the U.S. Senate in Iowa. Zach Walls, thanks so much for joining me. Thanks, Brian. So we have some major news out of Iowa that really did capture the entire attention of the country. And that was that there was a state legislative seat that was flipped a 20-some-odd point flip from red to blue from the 2024 election when Trump won that district by about 11 points to when Caitlin Dre won that district just this week by about 10 points. So a major flip.

And so how does that make you think about Iowa as you're running right now in terms of, you know, I know a lot of people will write the state off? How are you thinking about the state given what we've seen in the last 24 hours? Well, Brian, it's really exciting for a couple different reasons. First and foremost, even though this is probably what got a lot of the audience's attention, given the fact that this got national headlines, this is actually the fourth consecutive special election with a 20-point Democratic overperformance in just the last six months. This is the second state Senate seat that we have now flipped in Iowa that was won by Donald Trump in 2024. So needless to say, there's a lot of excitement and enthusiasm, and including the fact that

Caitlin actually broke the Republican supermajority by winning this seat. Our campaign had the opportunity to the campaign with her this past weekend during Get Out the Vote. Our support has raised over $7,000 directly to Caitlin's campaign to help make sure that she could stay competitive in the media wars, and it was a real honor to have the chance to get to know her during the course of the campaign and to knock doors with her this past weekend. Talking with a lot of Iowa voters were really upset with the fact that the Trump administration has not brought down costs like you promised they would, and the fact that Republicans have been a rubber stamp for his agenda, including Senator Joni Ernst,

that has actually made cost of living higher for most Iowans rather than lower. Now, as it relates to Joni Ernst specifically, I'm going to throw a clip right here on the screen of a comment that got her a lot of national attention. So can I have your reaction to that comment? I know that it's a couple of months old by now, but I think the sentiment probably still remains if you're Joni Ernst. Oh, absolutely. I mean, that comment has really put her on the back foot, and I think really put this race on the map, not just here in Iowa, but all over the country. There's been a real groundswell of support for our campaign against her, because Iowans, I think, saw, and so many of us all over the country, saw just how out of touch she is. I don't think it's a comment that she necessarily makes 12 years ago when she's first running for the U.S. Senate. I think it's a clear example of how she's really gone Washington, and I don't think Iowans are happy about that. I think it just demonstrates just how out of of how out of touch she is and the fact that, you know, she's no longer the person that she once

was. As it relates to your race specifically, there was some polling out that tested a bunch of Democratic candidates against Joni Ernst. You scored the highest. And in this hypothetical matchup, you scored 45 to 44 against Joni Ernst. So how are you thinking about that polling in terms of when you're speaking to folks in that state? And the reason I ask is because, you know, a lot of times when we have these states,

that have consistently voted red. And I think the last time Iowa voted for a Democrat, if I'm not mistaken, was 2008 for Barack Obama. Is that correct in the presidential? 2012. 2012. Okay. So it's been a minute.

And I think that we think of a lot of these states as like not worth expending energy and resources in places that are just trending in the opposite direction. And so what did that poll result tell you, you know, despite kind of the common knowledge that people might have about your state? Well, I think one thing that's really interesting in that poll is that Joni Ernst favorability lags 17 points behind where Donald Trump is. So there's an enormous number of the number of people in the electorate who still approve of Donald Trump, but have an unsatisfactory view of Joni Ernst, which tells me that there is an enormous number of Iowans who are willing to give anybody a second look is not Joni Ernst. But our message is clearly resonating with people, which is why we're the strongest candidate to defeat Senator Ernst next November. We were the only candidate who, when voters learned more about the folks who are running,

actually moved ahead of Senator Ernst in a direct head-to-head matchup. We know that she's vulnerable, and we know that the agenda that she has voted for is uniquely bad for Iowa. Tariffs have been devastating for our farmers and for our light manufacturers. The cuts to Medicaid are going to have a devastating impact for rural health care providers. Mass deportations are not going to be good for our state. And cuts to snap are not only going to hurt struggling families, they're going to have a devastating impact on farm incomes, grocery stores as well.

And so we know that Joni Ernst has been a rubber stamp for this agenda that is actually raising costs by doing things like ending investments in clean energy that are going to increase utility bills by hundreds of dollars a year in our state. So from my perspective, I think it shows conclusively that Senator Ernst is very vulnerable in 2026. And the only thing I would add, Brian, is that Iowa, despite being perceived as being more Republican over the last few years, as late as 2020, We had three of our four members of the U.S. House were Democrats back when we had Abby Fincanauer, Cindy Axney, and Dave Lobsack. Our state auditor, Rob Sand, continues to hold statewide office. He's a Democrat

who was consistently won statewide elections. And Iowa is, in fact, the third most likely state in the country where voters split their tickets between Democrats and Republicans. And so there's no doubt that Donald Trump has been popular in our state. He's won this state in 2016 and 2020 and in 24. At the same time, Joni Ernst has never had to run in a cycle where the environment is better for Democrats. She's consistently been underperformed Donald Trump in 2020 and the Republican candidate for governor in 2014. So this would be the first time where she's ever had to face voters in this climate that's actually positive for Democrats. And we believe that we are building a coalition that cannot just bring new people into the Democratic Party, but can actually

win over independence and Republicans. That same poll. So on me, winning independence by almost 20 points. In fact, even winning 7% of voters who voted for Donald Trump in 2024 more than any other Democrat in the race. So we've spoken a lot about kind of the negative attributes of Donald Trump and Joni Ernst and the case against those people. But I think, you know, it's important to recognize that there has to be an affirmative case for you as well. And so in terms of what your affirmative case is for voters, that's not just how bad Trump and Ernst are, what has been most resonant in terms of the message that you're bringing to voters? Absolutely.

Well, some of your audience may recall a speech that I gave back when I was a college sophomore about marriage equality and defending the freedom to marry for my two moms and for all Iowans. And I brought that same level of courage to my entire work in politics and over the last seven years of serving in the state Senate. I think Iowans are looking to people who have the political backbone to take on leaders in both parties when they're not working for Iowans, whether that means, standing up to your own party when it's necessary, pushing for our party to do better and actually

be more effective in representing our constituents, or be willing to stand up to Donald Trump when that's what it takes and he's pursuing policies that are bad for Iowa, like the tariffs, where Joni Ernst, on the other hand, has been a total rubber stamp. And so from my perspective, we are laser focused on Joni Ernst. We are focused on the fact that she's been a rubber stamp for an agenda that is increasing costs, that is not growing paychecks. And she has become a part of the problem that she said she'd solve. Back in 2014, she's, ran for office, said that she would only serve two terms in the U.S. Senate, and now she's gearing up the launch, her campaign for her third term. It's exactly the kind of typical

Washington, D.C. behavior that people in Iowa are sick of, and that's why they're ready to make a change. When you have gone around the state, have you had the opportunity to meet with or talk to Republicans or independents, Trump voters, whoever it may be, who are kind of disillusioned by what they're seeing from the Republican Party, which is this, you know, very clear bait and switch. Trump came into office, promising lower costs, lower groceries, lower housing, lower rent. All he's done is launch a trade war that's exacerbated all of those costs. He promised to release the Epstein files. Now they're engaged in the biggest cover-up in American history on that.

They promised to end the Ukraine-Russia war on day one. That hasn't happened. Promise to make IVF-free. That hasn't happened. And yet they always managed to find enough political capital to give millionaires and billionaires tax cuts. And so there is this very massive bait-and-switch happening at the hands of people like Donald Trump and Joni Ernst.

Have you heard from the actual voters, though, kind of echoing that sentiment? Yeah, absolutely. So we're talking about exactly the issues that you just outlined, Brian, and I'll tell you, that is resonating with people. We aren't just reaching out to Democrats for the events that we're hosting, whether they're in big cities or small towns, we're reaching out to those independents, and we're reaching out to Republicans, because in order to defeat Joni Ernst in this state, that is what it is going to take.

And there are enough people who are frustrated by all the chaos and the fact that Washington, D.C. is more focused on things that are not lowering cost for Iowans, that they are coming out to our events. They are endorsing our campaign. We're the only campaign so far to have received support from across the political spectrum. And we were the first campaign to receive grassroots donations from all of Iowa's 99 counties. And not all of those donations came from registered Democrats. We are building a new coalition that is going to bring to people together, defeat Joni Ernst, and bring some real generational change to Washington, D.C. If I'm elected, I will be the youngest member of the U.S. Senate, although I will be a little older than Senator

Ossoff was, and he was first elected back when he came into Washington. And so we feel like there's a lot of enthusiasm for the campaign. And it's not just coming from Democrats. There are a lot of independents and even some Republicans who are ready to make a change. Zach, what would it mean more broadly if Democrats are able to win in this offensive opportunity in what is otherwise a pretty dismal Senate map that we're contending with? Yeah, absolutely. Getting to 51 seats in the U.S. Senate this cycle. And we can't just get to 50 because J.D. Vans can break the tie. We need 51 seats in the U.S. Senate. And getting to 51 without Iowa in this cycle is going to be exceptionally difficult. It's part of why we're trying to build a strong 99-county grassroots

campaign that learns the best lessons from the Obama campaigns in 2008 and 2012 that puts a real emphasis on meeting voters where they are. And in some respect, just kind of getting back to the basics, of actually talking with our neighbors, our family, our friends, the people we see at church or at coffee or at the grocery store about why this campaign matters and then trying to actually make Iowa a better state along the way. One of my favorite things that we're doing in our campaign is that is when we distribute our yard signs in the communities that we are visiting. We ask folks, we reach out to the community service agencies in those areas. We ask what supplies do you need? And then we ask our supporters to bring those supplies in exchange for a yard sign. We've gathered

nearly a thousand pounds of supplies to community service agencies across Iowa that are unfortunately in desperate need of the supplies because of where things are with the economy right now and the cuts that are happening in Washington. So we're not just waiting for election day to build a better state. We're getting to work right now. And finally, you know, there are going to be a lot of people asking folks for funds and donations. And so why is it important that they donate to a state that they would otherwise have in their mind is redder and more difficult to win than some of the easier pickup opportunities. Again, to get to 51 seats in the U.S. Senate, we have to be competitive in Iowa, and we have to defeat Joni Ernst. And we're not waiting until the primary

is over next June to get to work on building out the statewide operation. We're starting today because if we wait until next June, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, and it's too late. But because this message is resonating with people and because we have some of the early resources that we need to begin that work, we're asking people for their support. They can go to our website, Zach Walls.com, to learn more about the campaign to make a contribution and to get involved. We've got lots of grassroots volunteer opportunities all over Iowa, and we're looking for support because that's what it's going to take to build a grassroots operation that's strong enough to go toe-to-to-to with Senator Ernst and her billionaire and corporate backers.

We made the decision on day one. We're not taking a dime of corporate PAC money. We are 100% people powered. Something that I wear with a badge of honor. And I think when we talk about cleaning up the political corruption and being willing to stand up to the establishment and both parties. This is a great example of putting your values into action, but we can't do it alone. We're counting on grassroots supporters all over Iowa and across the country to make this work possible. And so if this resonates with you, we would love to have your support and I hope that I can count on folks who are interested in learning more to go to the website and chip in. Awesome. I'll put that website right here on the screen and also in the post description.

If you're listening on the podcast, it'll be in the show notes. Zach, appreciate your time. Best luck in the campaign trail. Thanks, Brian. Thanks again to Westmore, Tommy Vitor, Norm Eisen, and Zach Walls. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating in a review.

And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to Brian Tyler Cohen.com to learn more. Thank you.