No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Trump STUNS with new ICE announcement

Episode Date: July 19, 2026

Trump uses a new ICE announcement to help himself in the next election. Brian sits with Jim Acosta live on stage as part of his book tour in Washington DC.Order THE DAY AFTER: https://www.harpercollins.com/pages/thedayafter Written by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Trump uses a new ICE announcement to help himself in the next election, and I chat with Jim Acosta live on stage as part of my book tour in Washington, D.C. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So there is a pretty stunning news story in the New York Times that unto itself is dangerous, but I argue has pretty monumental implications for the election that no one's talking about. So according to the Times, the FBI has quietly told field offices around the country that it will no longer investigate certain confrontations involving ICE agents, specifically assault on federal officer cases, which is the exact category of investigation

that is historically produced the evidence needed to hold ICE agents accountable when they shoot someone. And instead, that responsibility shifts to Homeland Security Investigations, which is a division of ICE itself, meaning ICE would be investigating ICE. In other words, the agency accused of killing people would be the agency deciding whether the agency did anything wrong. I'm sure you can see the problem here. And the timing here isn't a coincidence. This guidance reportedly went out just days after two fatal ice shootings happened within a single week. There was a Mexican man killed in Houston who officials claimed tried to run over an officer,

which is a claim that eyewitnesses dispute. And days later, a Colombian father of three killed in Bitterford, Maine. By some counts, this is at least the seventh, but maybe as many as the 11th fatal shooting involving ice agents. And that's not even counting the 22 people who've died in ICE detention this year alone on top of 33 last year. So when the accountability mechanism gets quietly hollowed out the same week that the body count is spiking, you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to connect the dots.

Now, DHS and DOJ naturally are calling this reporting fake. They're insisting that nothing has changed. But Borders are Tom Homan went on Face the Nation this weekend. Here's what he said. Let's be clear. You can talk to men and women at ice all you want. It comes on to one simple fact. these people fail to comply with law enforcement.

Even some of the major chiefs in this country who don't necessarily agree with this administration says you always comply with law enforcement. But the hateful rhetoric, that ICE isn't a real law enforcement agency, I see these signs they were resist. ICE are the, you know, let's abolish them. They're fascists. When you keep that hateful rhetoric up a year and a half,

there's going to be that percentage of that part, that left population, that it's going to be emboldened the table. take action because they're not real law enforcement. See, I should resist them. All they had to do is simply comply with law enforcement. If you don't like what law enforcement did you, then go to the court, sue, call the ACLU, do whatever you want to do. But you should always comply in law enforcement. If they did, they'd be alive today. That if only people had complied, they would be alive today. Meaning, there is zero

introspection happening when it comes to DHS and ICE, meaning they will continue to kill people and then retroactively pretend that they bear zero percent of the blame. But I want to zoom out here beyond the depraved killings that we're seeing at the hands of this rogue agency because I actually don't think that this is incompetence. I think ICE is doing exactly what Trump wants it to do, and here's why. So Trump has been asked repeatedly on camera whether he'll rule out ICE agents going to the polls. And every time he and his administration officials all have the exact same tell. They don't say no.

Caroline Levitt literally told reporters that, quote, she can't guarantee that an ICE agent won't be around the polling location in November. She didn't say we won't do that. She didn't say that's illegal. She just refuses to guarantee it. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, she's gone further. He publicly defended the idea, asking why anybody would object to ICE at the polls.

And once you see that, this FBI story starts to look less like the bureaucratic machinations of what an agency is going to do and more like what I think it actually is, which is preparation for November, because Trump and Republicans want you to fear ICE expressly because they will be able to act with impunity, and simultaneously wants to use those agents as a voter suppression tactic at the polls.

And fear only works as a voter suppression tool if it's credible. If ICE agents shoot people and there are real consequences, meaning real investigations, real prosecutions, then the threat of ICE at a polling place is just a threat. But if ICE can shoot people and simply investigate, itself and let itself off the hook, then there's no real accountability at all. And then that fear becomes real. It becomes rational. And specifically Brown and black voters who are deciding whether it's safe to leave their house on election day, they're going to take that into account because

now they're watching an agency that's operating on a documented platform. That's not a side effect of what's happening here. I think that is the point. Trump doesn't need armed agents at every polling place in America to be able to suppress the vote. He just needs enough fear. in enough communities that people who would otherwise vote against him decide that it's not worth a risk. And if that fear occasionally turns lethal, meaning if American citizens and immigrants end up dead in the process, that's clearly not a bug. It is a feature of a plan that they've calculated they can live with so long as it keeps the right voters at home in November. So no, this isn't like a story about FBI jurisdiction. It's a story about what a president is willing to let

happen to actual human beings in order to rig an election without ever technically touching a ballot. But here's what I keep coming back to. Fear only works as a strategy if it succeeds in making people stay home. And every single time this administration has tried that play from January 6 to the raids to the threats that we're talking about right here, the response from regular people has not been retreat. It's been resolved. Like Virginia lawmakers didn't wait around hoping this would blow over. They passed legislation keeping federal agents 40 feet from the polls. Election officials across the country are refusing to just take the White House's word for it. Reporters continue to dig, which is, by the way, why we know about this memo in the first place. None of that happens

if people just quietly give in to the fear that this administration is counting on. So if you take one thing from this story, let it be this. The goal is making you feel like showing up isn't safe. So the most powerful thing you can do in response is to show up anyway. and bring everybody you know with you who were thinking about staying home. Next up is my discussion with Jim Acosta. No Lie is brought to you by Factor. Now, I know that we've all been there where you're exhausted and starving and probably hungry. You go into the fridge and you can and should cook a healthy meal,

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Head to FactorMeals.com slash BTC 50 off and use code BTC 50 off to get 50% off and free daily greens per box with new subscription only while supplies last until 92726. See website for more details. Thank you so much, everybody. So we figured, because we do breaking news so often, that we would jump in by discussing a little bit of breaking news. Yeah, I don't see Mitch McConnell in the audience tonight. I was looking around with the crowd.

It's fine. I did talk to Scott Jennings. He had a 20-minute conversation with him. Oh, very good. It's all good. Excellent. And I don't know if you saw this, Brian. First of all, Brian's brand new book is right here, the day after.

Very, very cool. very, very cool. We'll talk about that. But I don't know if you saw this, but apparently Senator Ron Johnson was on one of these talk shows and said that he did not believe that this was Mitch McConnell. So we are now faced with the prospect of

who do we believe? Scott Jennings or Ron Johnson? Let's have a round of applause depending on which side you want to be on. Do you agree with Scott Jennings? No. I guess a lot of Ron Johnson fans in here, I guess. I never thought this kind of audience

I'll tell you what, I saw that picture. I am one of the least conspiratorial people out there. I saw that picture, and Mitch McConnell looked really good for a guy who was just in the hospital for like a month. Yeah, and Elaine was happy. She was like, hey, this is great. Apparently the hospital gown is like a nice pressed shirt from the gap. And then they had that little newspaper off to the side. I mean, how sad a commentary on a, on the, on the hospital.

the state of things that you need proof of life in a photo of Mitch McConnell, that he had to hold a proof of life newspaper. It's so true. And you and I were having this conversation the other day that Democrats need to sort of find their inner Mitch. Yes. That, you know, what would Mitch McConnell do if we had this Mitch McConnell situation going on? Yeah. And it's kind of true. It is true. I mean, look, I don't know. Yeah. I know that there are probably no fans of Mitch McConnell in this room, but I don't know that we would find anybody who doubts his effectiveness

in terms of what he's been able to do in the Senate. And so, you know, that was in large part a big impetus for writing this book. I mean, the book really talks about the way that Democrats need to wield power. We have watched Republicans abuse power for so long. Meanwhile, we have the Democrats who certainly mean well,

but have become the party of strongly worded letters. and that ain't going to cut it, especially in an era where we have somebody like Mitch McConnell and the rest of these Republicans who wield power so aggressively, so shamelessly, and that asymmetry has kind of landed us in the position that we're in right now. Yeah, and I mean, this is a great segue to your book.

Let's talk about the book, why you decided to go down this road. I mean, it's the question that everybody, it's one of the questions that I think everybody is asking, which is what the hell? do we do when this is all over? How do we fix this? Can we fix it? Yeah. I think it's important to have this conversation now because, you know, I've noticed that when Democrats have full control of government, to get majorities in the House, the Senate, the White House, already a Herculean

feat unto itself. And we have those opportunities that we contend with so infrequently. And so I want to use this opportunity right now, having that conversation and setting the state, so that if and when we get into power, we're not wasting time and paneling commissions that meet for 12 to 18 months and then come back and bring their findings, and then Democrats can make a determination in six months based on those findings, and whatever we determine will be put into place six to ten years into the future. I mean, like, you know, this is, Democrats have a proclivity to do that.

And I mean, an example of that is when we had, when Joe Biden was in office and we finally had the ability to negotiate lower drug prices for 10 drugs. And first of all, it was a limited group and they said that that was going to basically be the test group and then we can broaden it to other drugs. But 10 drugs out of God knows how many. And I don't think that it went into effect until years out into the future. And meanwhile, if Trump wants to give everybody $10, he sends it out on Tuesday,

slaps his name on it, puts a picture of his first. face on the check and everybody has it by the next week. And so I think there's a lot we can learn from how to not only etch these wins, but do it in a timely manner so we get credit for them and make sure that people know that you have Democrats in power who are actually willing to deliver. Yeah. And speaking about stuff that's in the news, I mean, it's just been reported in the last couple of weeks, Brian, that Trump made, what, $2 billion in 2025, much of it on crypto. Yeah. And And on the backs of people who were suckered by him, his own people. And I think it raises the question, you know, to help with this immunity thing that the Supreme Court came up with.

How do we have accountability in this country to clean up what's happening here in Washington? You know, I've spoken to a lot of folks who have asked the question because this book focuses on a post-Trump world, but we're also contending with midterms, which are just a few months away. And so more immediately, I've been posed the question, what does it look? like if Democrats are able to take control of one or two branches of government after midterms. And for the record, I absolutely believe the Democrats are going to win the House, and I believe they're going to win the Senate. But I think what we can do and what we have to do is use the power that we have. I mean, this, again, lends itself to what I wrote about, to use the power that we

have to make sure, at a bare minimum, even though we're in a position where we won't be able to pass legislation, to use that power to investigate all of the corruption that we're contending with right now. I mean, the fact that these people are using foreign governments to funnel money into World Liberty Financial's cryptocurrency is insane. The fact that we have Trump trading on foreign real estate in exchange for relief on tariffs is insane. And the fact that this is a Republican Party that sits idly by while this happens when they clutch their pearl. about Hunter Biden selling artwork is even more insane. Like, this is a political party that has groomed the country into believing,

rightfully, I would add, that any corruption at the hands of a president or their family members is absolutely disqualifying, but only up until the moment that it happens at the hands of the Trump family, only up until the moment that they're making money hand over fist, adding billions of dollars to their bank accounts, and then suddenly it's just crickets from these, from these defenders of the Constitution and anti-corruption?

Yeah, I'm old enough to remember a chance of lock her up. I'm old enough to remember references to the Biden crime family. I do have to ask on that. You know, there were a lot of these rallies that you attended, rallies at which those chance would take place. What was it like for you being in there? Did you ever feel unsafe? Did you ever feel like your life was in danger?

Yeah, I mean, it was totally crazy. And, you know, what would happen is Trump would go into these events, and there would be 10,000 people, 20,000 people, and he would whip everybody up into a frenzy not only against people like Hillary Clinton, but against us. I mean, before the term fake news and the enemy of the people, he called us the disgusting news media, the dishonest news media, liars, scum, and it would get so heated that we would have his supporters

coming up to us in our press cage, as we lovingly called it, because they put bike racks around us to protect us. us, they would call us traitor and everything else, and they would be screaming at us as we were racing off to our cars after the events were over. And all of that has stayed kind of baked into our politics ever since that time. And I guess that's the other part of this, is how do we drain that poison out of our politics? You know, I've thought about that a lot. I actually don't think we're going to get into a world where the most die-hard MAGA supporters, you know, like in, what was it,

stranger things when you kill like the main, the main alien and the other aliens just like die off because now the spell is lifted. Right, right. That's not going to happen when Trump is out of office. But I do think for a lot of people, you know, Trump was a vehicle for not only anti-establishment,

anti-status quo sentiment, but a vehicle for, and not everybody, because I do think there are people who just liked the toxic brand of politics and, you know, just the shitty things you would say. And those people are going to be die-hard MAGA anyway. But I do think for another portion of the population who voted for him,

he kind of rode on this anti-establishment, anti-status quo sentiment. And I think that may have worked for a little while. But now when you ran a campaign predicated on reducing the cost of housing, reducing the cost of rent, reducing the cost of groceries, he got so granular, so faux-populous that he was talking about the price of eggs, only for him now to have launched a trade war where he raised the price of everything, where he engaged in a foreign war that he swore he would never engage in, where he failed to release the Epstein files, and instead engaged in a cover-up of the Epstein files,

where inflation's 30% higher than public enemy number one of inflation, Joe Biden, and even refused to sign the housing bill that he campaigned on. I think suddenly, you know, the veil is lifted for a lot of people who view the money. him as their vehicle to usher in a new kind of government that actually works for working-class Americans. And so, you know, I think that we're going to have a rare sliver of time here, if and when Democrats take control in the aftermath of 2026 and 28, where we can pick up the mantle and actually start creating a government that delivers for people and doesn't let institutions and norms and traditions and the parliamentarian and the filibuster and any little

speed bumps stand in our way from actually delivering for Americans. Yeah, and it seems to me, you know, if and when the Democrats take over in 2029, that feels a long way off. I'm guessing that in your book there is no loving reference to Merrick Garland. You're not calling for another appointment of Merrick Garland as Attorney General in this country. No, no, shockingly, Merrick Garland, Merrick Garland's tenure did not age well, at least in the eyes of this book. Look, I think in large part, the failure of Merrick Garland to hold Donald Trump and Republicans to account has kind of created the atmosphere that we find ourselves in right now. The only reason Trump feels emboldened, and the rest of these Republicans, by association,

by extension, feel emboldened to commit the crimes, the actions that they commit right now is because they have this idea that they can do this with impunity. And frankly, they're right to feel that way because there's been a bit of it. no reason not to feel that way. Merrick Garland refused to do his job because he was more focused on preventing the optics of politicization. God forbid we did anything to prosecute, to properly prosecute any Republican because then we might politicized.

And I would argue there is nothing more politicized than a DOJ that refuses to prosecute people because they haven't are next to their name. And obviously Republicans got the message, and now the corruption that we're living through today, I think it's a direct response to Merrick Garland's DOJ's failure to hold these officials to account when they had the opportunity to do so. Yeah. And so I have two proposals in terms of who I think might be a good replacement for the next Democratic administration.

And I want them to stand up. and and we have them right here so if Mark Elias and Glenn Kershner the men in black men in black you know what I think this moment calls for something

a little bit different so this will be our first ever co-attorneys general we'll go Mark Monday Wednesday Friday Glenn Tuesday Thursday Saturday day. And what do they do with those Trump banners that are on the Department of Justice exterior?

Do those stay up or do they come down? What happens? Do those go in a closet somewhere? Burn it. Yes. You guys are tough, man. I'll tell you, the first thing that I want to see done is have the ballroom renamed the Barack Hussein Obama presidential ballroom. You can even leave in the Hussein so that you have to have.

have a little nod to Donald Trump. That'll be our homage to Donald Trump. That'll be his contribution. That'll be his contribution. That's right. And by the way, I know I had these guys stand up, but a huge thank you to Glenn and Mark for the work that you all do. I am beyond proud. So true. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Beyond proud to be partnered with both of you, beyond proud to be able to call you guys my friends and, you know, on behalf of everybody here. and everybody in this country, thank you for the work that you do to protect this democracy. So thank you. No, I is brought to you by Helix.

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Go to HelixSleep.com slash BTC for 27% offsitewide. That's HelixSleep.com for 27% offsite wide. Helixleep.com slash BTC. Glenn is obviously busy these days with his excellent podcast, Justice Matters, and Mark Elias with Democracy Docket. Mark is going to be very busy potentially on Thursday night. You heard about this prime time address to the country that he wants to give, which I'm sure will be completely factually accurate.

As it always is. And the fact checkers' brains will not explode. Yeah, poor Daniel Dale. Poor Daniel Dale, my gosh. I think my lexapro dose is high. Crack open a cold one for him. But we should talk about that moment. We should talk about that because he's, you know, don't get him time.

Hey, he's not going to be running on my show, or Bryan's, that's for sure. But, I mean, he wants to talk about election integrity, which is obviously election BS and conspiracy theories. So I think that Thursday is going to be the culmination of a lot of different exercises that Trump has been focused on. For example, we've seen the Director of National Intelligence now end up in Fulton County, Georgia, where they seize those ballots. The only reason for the ODNI to be there is if there is some international implications. Meanwhile, we know that Donald Trump is engaged in all of this scheming with Nicholas Maduro, who's now in the United States and his replacement in Venezuela. And so there's some concern that maybe they cook up some deal, some agreement with Nicholas Maduro or some other world leader

and basically come out and say that there was election interference in 2020. Now, we all know that that's complete bullshit, but the merits of this stuff don't matter. Trump just needs some thin veneer of truth, some pretense to be able to say that this is what happened. Remember, in the aftermath of the 2020 election, we now found out, thanks to the January 6th subcommittee, that Donald Trump said, you know, just say the election was rigged and leave the rest to me and these Republican congressmen. So he doesn't need it to be true. he just needs a thin veneer of pretext to be able to say that it's true. And so there's some concern that he's going to do this by saying the 2020 election was, in fact, rigged.

And as a result, we have to take extraordinary measures to prevent this from happening again. Again, this is not a real thing, but doesn't matter. And so that could mean a number of things. I mean, we already know that he's trying to ban mail-in voting. Luckily, that was blocked in court. Something that he does. Something that he himself takes advantage of. We know that the administration refuses to rule out sending ice to the polls.

And of course, as we continue to watch these ice agents kill Americans with impunity and kill people in the streets with impunity, that becomes an increasingly dangerous prospect. It just happened in Maine days ago. And I think that's in large part by design. I think that the administration actually benefits from the administration. having people feel afraid of what ICE can do. And the fact that we don't see any accountability for those folks also lends itself to this idea that if they're at the polls

and shit goes sideways, then there's not going to be any accountability for that. We also know that they're trying to get the voter rolls. And, you know, again, a big thanks to the work that Mark Elias's law firm is doing. They're now 13 and 0, 15 and 0. 15 and 0. 15 and O in court preventing states from preventing the federal government

from being able to seize private voter data from the states. And this is 15 out of 31 cases so far. But that's not for lack of trying by this DOJ. And then of course the Save America Act is another effort by the administration

to basically nationalize elections which for the entirety of our history have been run by the state. And it would basically allow the federal government to be the authority that offers up the documents that you need to vote. It would force the states to hand the voter rolls to the Department of Homeland Security. And they would be the arbiters of who gets to cast ballots. And then, of course, it would effectively eliminate mail-in voting except for a narrow list of exceptions. So not for lack of trying.

I mean, there are a lot of things that this administration is trying to do. And I actually think just a few days ago, Trump's refusal to sign the housing bill, a bill that he himself advocated for on the campaign trail, a bill that his own party passed, a bill that was so popular that they had planned a whole celebration in advance of its signing, I think that his unwillingness to sign that, because he was so hell-bent on instead using it as a hostage to pass the Save America Act,

is really instructive because people saw that and they said, you know, this guy is just giving up on the midterms. There's no way that you bail on your own housing bill if you care about the midterms. But I disagree. I don't think he's giving up on the midterms. I just don't think he's trying to win the midterms

on the merits anymore. I think he's trying to win the midterms by the Save America Act shows us by just rigging the rules of the game before a single vote is even cast. And so that is his priority. He's so fucking ham-handed that he put it on full display

And so instead of the housing bill, which would have, you know, at least offered him some pretext of populism, he instead said, no, I just want to pass the Save America Act where I can rig the rules of the game in my favor. So I think that that's what they're looking to do. And again, none of this, none of his failures are for lack of trying. Yeah, you would think if he cared about housing that much, you know, he put Bill Pulte over at the Director of National Intelligence, you know. One would think he cares about housing a little bit. But I will say, as an aside on the prime time address, shame on the networks, shame on the news networks in this country. If they carry that for shit, why?

There is no way, and I assume what they're going to do, I assume what they're going to do heading into Thursdays, they're going to say, oh, well, now he's going to talk about Iran a little bit. They'll put like a, you know, like a little sheen of something that resembles normalcy at the beginning of the speech. and then he'll just dovetail right into all of his crazy nonsense. But, you know, we talked about ICE for a little bit there. I did want to go back to it for a second because I don't see how you could have a future in the Democratic Party without talking about abolishing ICE,

without ending ICE as you know it. I don't see how you get the nomination. No, you can't. And I think that having the courage of your convictions and being able to come right out and say it is going to be absolutely essential moving forward. I don't see how you are a Democrat who can waffle on the idea of abolishing an institution that is so broken, so beyond repair. Which is not to say that you can't have immigration enforcement, but ICE ain't it.

There is no way to salvage anything with that agency. Yeah. That's it. By the way, we were talking about the housing bill just a moment ago. What about the fact that Donald Trump decided to come forward and see. say that Lindsay Graham's last words were that he really wanted the Save America Act passed. Yeah. He said, come closer, Donald, and I came closer to the phone, and he said a little bit closer,

and I came, and he said, I really want you to pass the Save America Act. That's my dying wish. Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean, talk about a heartfelt, you know, note that he, you know, left for Lindsey Graham and all of these different network interviews. He made the rounds and all these network interviews, and each and every one of those, he would chastise the anchor when they would try to go on to other topics.

But yet he was bringing up the Save America Act. And I think I... He's like, how dare you leverage exploit Lindsay Graham's death for your own partisan gain? That's my job. That's my job. That's what I do. And I seem to recall one network where he went on one network

and he said, you know, we're trying to move you in a normal direction. Did anybody see that where he said that about CNN? Did you see that from it? So not only did I see it, I was seated across from Jake Tapper. Oh, you were? You were there at that moment. It was the first time I've ever done. First time I've ever done Jake Tapper's show.

So I'm out here. I'm based in Los Angeles, but came out here, obviously, for the book tour. And so I was on that panel, and we're supposed to have our hit at, you know, 40 past the hour. I actually can't remember what hour it was, but 40 past the hour. And then all of a sudden they said, we have the president calling in. And so obviously, you know, you get. you get bumped for the president. And I was kind of fascinated at the chit-chat because that's what I was, you know, the regular

conversation was going to happen on air and everybody would be able to hear it. But I was really interested to hear what he would say to Jake, you know, on the earpiece that everybody's wearing. And it wasn't much. He was just basically like, oh, we have to get together one of these days. Yeah. Yeah, he doesn't like those guys. And I seem to recall some of that.

Yeah. So, but then, you know, it was funny because when he said that Lindsay Graham not only wanted to pass the Save America Act but is starting to really think about abolishing the filibuster. Lindsay Graham is like the ultimate institutionalist and he's like, you know what?

Even abolishing the filibuster was something that he told me last night. Never said it publicly, but he told me last night. Everybody at the table just rolled their eyes to the back of our heads. But you're right. I mean, just like, fully exploited this dead man before his body was even cold

to advance his political interests. Yeah, and it's because he has nothing to run on. I mean, this is what you were, I think, alluding to earlier, Brian, is that what is he supposed to run on heading into the fall? Of course he's going to try to turn the midterm election cycle into a 52-car pile up. He's got the pedophile vote.

Well, he's about as popular as Jeffrey Epstein these days, so that goes hand in hand. But, you know, to me, it does raise this question as to what do we do about him, you know, when this is all said and done. About Trump himself. About Trump himself. Look, so I actually, I dealt with this question a lot because while I was writing this book,

and I wanted this to be a blueprint for what democratic governance looks like in a new era of democratic politics, there was kind of what felt like these conflicting ideals, one of which is like, we just have to look forward and have a proactive agenda. And there are a lot of people in this country who do not give a flying fuck what happens in the political arena. They just want to make sure that they can put food on their, table and afford their medical bills and and pay their rent and be able to stay in their house and just live their lives. And in large part, that's what fueled Trump and Republicans to victory in 2024. And I think that's important. And at the same time, we have all of this corruption that's

happening right now. And I think that there is a lot of risk in ignoring it. And I just explained how Merrick Garland's unwillingness, his inability to confront these things is what set the stage for so much rampant corruption in Trump 2.0. But I think the answer, the only answer is that you can and must do both. You have to absolutely have a proactive agenda and be willing to deliver for people on all of the issues that we spend so much time talking about, on health care, on climate, on voting rights, on making life more affordable in this country, on making sure we have a minimum wage that's livable and on. But at the same time, nobody can have faith in a government that is so steeped in corruption that you don't even know if they're acting on your behalf

or on behalf of some foreign country or some billionaire or some donor or some path. No lie is brought to you by Zok Doc. Have you ever put off making an appointment due to phone anxiety or endless phone tag only to finally call and find out that the next opening is months away? I don't know why I'm newly surprised every time, but it is a fact of life that certain doctors are not available for a really long time, which is not great because generally when you're looking for a doctor, You're looking for one right away.

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And you can even score same-day appointments. And ZockDoc is free to use. Your health matters and taking care of yourself should not be this complicated. Find in book The Right Doctor with Zockdoc. Head to Zock.com slash BTC to get started and check that appointment off your to-do list. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com slash BTC. What do we do with the Supreme Court? It's the Supreme Court that gave Trump this immunity decision that, you know,

when you hear the experts will say, well, it's not total immunity. there's a little bit of this and a little... And it's like Donald Trump took that immunity decision and said, yes, I have absolute... And not only does he want absolute immunity from the Supreme Court, he tried to cut this crooked deal with the IRS when he was essentially suing himself. And he said,

you know, Trump, you really screwed me on that IRS thing. You know, Trump, you're right, I did. So, how about I just give you the whole bank? We just open up the bank and you just start loading gold bars into the back of a truck. I think that sounds really good. I think I should do that. I mean, you know, like the Supreme Court just totally... open the floodgates to this, it seems to me.

The answer, in my opinion, is you absolutely must expand the Supreme Court. That is the only answer. Here's why. First of all, nine justices is not sacrosanct. Nine justices is not in the Constitution. Throughout the entirety of our history, the number of Supreme Court justices has comported with the number of federal court circuits. In the 1800s, I think 1837, there were six Supreme Court justices, and we had six

federal court circuits. Eventually that number went up to nine, and we have nine Supreme Court justices, nine federal court circuits. Now we have 13, but we still have nine Supreme Court justices. So it would make sense. It would lend itself to reason that we can raise the number of Supreme Court justices up to 13. It's also so not sacrosanct that even in modern times that number has changed. Mitch McConnell brought it from nine to eight when he was holding that seat open for an entire year to prevent Merrick Garland from getting his seat. seat on the U.S. Supreme Court. So not only is there historical precedent, there's precedent just in the last few years in our lifetimes. But then there is a moral imperative to do so as well,

and that is if Democrats are able to win the House, which is difficult, win the Senate, which is difficult, win the White House, which is difficult, and actually pass progressive legislation, which is difficult, all of which, tough to do, then if we decide not to expand the Supreme court, we are making a conscious decision to leave in place a veto on any and all legislation that makes it up to them. And mark my words, they will 100% shut down or strip or gut any legislation that makes it in front of them. They did it with Roe, even after all of those people swore up and down that they respect precedent and stare decisis, and Roe is precedent upon precedent, and we wouldn't possibly, we couldn't possibly do that.

How dare you even insist that we could do such a thing? And as soon as they had the opportunity to do so, gutted 50 years of precedent. They did it with the Voting Rights Act. Another thing that was precedent upon precedent. And now we're at a point where Republicans immediately jumped off and started drawing black members of Congress out of these districts. And I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years

we see no black representation in Republican-led. states in the south. In fact, not just the south, there are going to be any Republican-led states that benefit from opportunity districts who won't have any black representation or brown representation. So, again, if we do this, if we allow this 6-3 conservative court to stand as it stands right now, then we're basically saying, you know what? We know everything is going to be struck down, but hey, at least we tried, right? At least we got caught trying. At least we have a symbolic victory. And that's not good enough. Like, we have done symbolic victories. We've done messaging wins in the past. And in an era where people are already disillusioned with government

and its ability to deliver, it ain't good enough for me to just say, hey, I tried. So if we want meaningful, lasting change, change that's going to persist even after a Supreme Court gets its hands on it, then the only option to do so is to expand the Supreme Court. Yeah. Yeah, and it takes me back to our earlier conversation about Mitch McConnell. I mean, I remember I was at the White House when Ruth Bader Ginsburg passed away, and I had left for the evening, and I ran back so fast that I dropped my tie outside in Lafayette Park, and I was on the air that evening without my tie on.

And it was Mitch McConnell, who reportedly was the one who was really pushing. the White House, let's get Amy Coney Barrett in as fast as possible. The same Mitch McConnell who said, we can't do this during an election. So, I mean, to me, we're past the point of saying, you know, I were talking about this backstage, giving the other side the benefit of the doubt. Right. And, you know, that is, I think, the most frustrating part

is for so long it feels like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown, like this idea that if only this time, we confer goodwill to the Republicans, if only we decide to compromise with these people, if only we offer up something, then they'll reciprocate the next time, and the reciprocation never comes, and we keep saying,

let's just keep being good governance partners with the Republicans, but the Republicans never are good governance partners back, and we're just in a position where not only do we not get anything done, not only is there this massive asymmetry, but frankly, you lose the support of your own base who fails to view you as an effective vehicle

to get anything done because only one side is compromising. Yeah. And I think part of the reason why they have packed the court themselves is because they are beholden to interests that are not in line with the Democratic Republic. They're beholden to corporate interests. You have people like Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court who, you know, he might as well have hard. We have some fans.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, you know, the point I'm making, though, that you can feel free to chime. I'm in on is that, I mean, listen, you have a situation right now where the interests of the people are not being taken into consideration, it seems to me, over at the Supreme Court right now. And so how else are we supposed to accomplish this? How else? And when you have issues like dark money flowing through our politics, pack money, I mean,

we mentioned Glenn and Mark. We have another hero here tonight. Harry Dunn is here tonight. Harry's here tonight. We love Harry. ran for Congress ran for Congress twice was, you know,

met with an avalanche of dark pack money. Yeah. That made it extremely difficult to win those races. And so how do we get folks like Harry into Congress when you have those kinds of forces aligned against him and you have a Supreme Court who will protect them? Right. And I think that, you know, it's

going to require the courage of our convictions of a new class of Democratic politicians and the help of an activist base who, you know, who has to demand it at this point. Because, you know, the reality is that we have seen the extent to which this, this flood of outside money, and it's only going to get worse with the, Mark, help me out here, what is the decision, the FEC decision, NRC versus NRC that will basically open the floodgates

for even more. And I always have Mark around just to just to something. Yeah. Fine. Yeah. Yeah. We'll fly back to L.A. tomorrow and I just, you know, walk around the house and just Mark grabs, grabs court names, court case names for me. Yeah. But no, we've talked. Yes, exactly. And we talked about legislative reform. We've talked about Supreme Court reform. The executive branch is kind of the whole ballgame. And this, and, you know, the Republicans, MAGA, their allies on the Supreme Court, they really are pushing this notion of a unitary executive and all-powering.

executive branch of the government, contrary to what the founders envisioned, to the point where Trump thinks he can knock down part of the White House and do whatever he wants. And how does that get solved, do you think? What I think would be a very important place to start is reform of the pardon power. I think that we have seen the extent to which... Totally out of control. It is so abused. I mean, it is, you know, how can any... have faith in what government does if you know that everybody can commit as much criminal

behavior as they want and there is a pardon waiting for them at the other side of this thing. And do you think that Trump is going to pardon everybody on his way out? Yeah, I think he is. I think he's going to try to imagine every possible person. I think he said something like whoever is within 150 feet of the White House, you know, or is it 350 feet like the gash in the reflecting pool? I don't know. It's one of those numbers. You know, my concern for those people is if he said anybody within 150 feet, you know, or is it's a hundred and 50 feet of the White House, it's come to our attention that he doesn't have a great grasp on measurements. Yeah, that's right. It's only going to be like three people at the end of the day.

Yeah, but size matters. That's a different part of that whole conversation. Although I think Stormy Daniels put a gabash to put it into that. She had something to say there. That's true. I had a couple things to say about that. But no, I think you're absolutely right. I think he is going to try to, I think he's going to try to pardon himself. I think he's going to pardon his sons. I think he's going to pardon. Stephen Miller, obviously. The question becomes, you know, whether or not, yeah, exactly, please, should we just take a moment of silence to piss at Stephen Miller?

Yeah. They're not saying, go Stephen. They're not saying, boo earns. Go boo. No, but it does raise the question of whether states and state attorneys general should be conducting these kinds of investigations. I think there's one happening in Wisconsin. And there was a news article that came out today that Wisconsin is looking at going at somebody in the Trump circle.

So maybe that's where this heads. And they have to. And frankly, yeah. No, I mean, we should applaud for that because these state prosecutions are going to be really the only avenue that we have in the aftermath of this stuff. And frankly, the ways in which Trump benefited in the aftermath of, you know, the whole 2020 cycle, where he was able to run out the clock on the Georgia prosecution, for example, the New York prosecution, because he became president, and OLC guidance suggests that you can indict a sitting president, that won't apply anymore because Trump will be term-limited,

and I think it's going to be incumbent upon these states to take aggressive action to, even if they've pardoned themselves at a federal level, for the states to step in in the absence of the federal government and actually seek some accountability for what they're doing right now. Yeah. And I do know that, by the way, I've spoken to Letitia James. And, you know, there is so much corruption in the stock market where, you know, we'll see this big pop of short sales or whatever it may be on the market. And then all of a sudden Trump comes out and makes some announcement that sends the market surging or crashing. You know, that is all under the jurisdiction of the New York Stock Exchange, which is under the jurisdiction of the New York Attorney General. So Lettie. James, she's probably going to be pretty busy for the next few years after Trump leaves office. Yeah, because a lot of investors got hosed. I mean, if you weren't in on which stocks to buy and when, because, you know, Trump was limiting that to the people around him, you probably lost some money,

and you got defrauded in all of this. There's no question about it. And the other thing that I think will take place in addition to what happens at the state level, we saw a glimmer of this, is kind of out of Glenn Kirchner's wheelhouse where the judge down in, I think it was at federal judge just recently said, was it yesterday that this so-called slush fund was just a crock and crap and that the attorney for Trump should refer to the local bar. And that, you know, that gets attorney's attention. You know, that's another one. It's an interesting point because Donald Trump really is where law licenses go to die. And so true. I mean, Johnny, Smith, Jenna Ellis, Rudy Giuliani. So, but, but, but I mean, you know, good on, good on these judges.

That has been one surprising bright spot. The lower court. The lower courts and the appellate courts. Not so much of the Supreme Court. Not so much there. But the lower court judges, I mean, even Trump appointees are ruling against him in a raft of these cases. And so that has been the one pillar of government

that's held up to a lot of the attacks that we're seeing right now. No question about it. Well, all right, so we've reached the portion of the program where we go into audience questions, And I have some questions that have been submitted in advance from the audience. And as the late John McCain once said, questions, comments, and insults. So they're all in here.

No, just kidding. They're just questions that are in here. And I've got to get my glasses out where else this is going to be not good at all. This is a good one. I thought this was a good one to get into. This is from Douglas. What messaging can sway people who voted for Trump who are independents, MAGA Republicans, or the religious right?

what message could sway them back to the real world, I guess. Yeah, I think that's a great question. And it's something that we're going to be contending with over the next couple of years because I think those people are going to be getable. And, you know, the question is, just look at what you're contending with right now. Are your food bills cheaper? Is your electricity bills cheaper? Is health care more accessible or more affordable?

Are your rent payments, your mortgage payments lower than they were before? And the answer to all of this stuff is no. There are no material conditions in this country that are better right now under Donald Trump than they were under the previous administration. And the previous administration was, according to Republicans, so disqualifying that it warranted voting for Republicans in the first place. So if that was bad and this is worse,

what does that say about the Republicans' ability to be able to campaign here? So I think you don't have to talk about some theoretical ideas. All you have to do is ask people to look at what their own lives are. like. And the reality is, Donald Trump has been so singularly focused on himself that on, on his ballroom and his reflecting pool and his arch and encrusting the Oval Office in gold and making money for himself and World Liberty Financial and opening up real estate ventures overseas, he's done all of these things that he hasn't done a single thing for regular people. And even when it was delivered to him on a silver platter, as the housing bill was, he refused to sign it

because he was so focused on consolidating power and consolidating control of government for himself. And that is all an easy story to tell people. And especially given the fact that we have been groomed, the American people have been groomed to recognize that that is the litmus test issue. Yeah, no, I agree with you. It's so true.

And that leads me to this question, which I think is actually a very important question and something that is direly or very much needed. This is from Kelly. Are the Democrats coming up with an action plan that they can begin implementing in January, assuming they flip the House and or the Senate, is their agreement on how they will convince the American public that they have solid plans to fix the avoidability crisis? And this, I think this is a great question.

I don't think we've heard enough of this from Democrats. And it sort of brings me back to, and the folks who are a little bit older in the audience, remember this. This was in the 90s when Newt Gingrich had his contract with America. Remember that whole thing? And it's, and yeah, please. But I think they called it a contract on America, I think is what. folks call it. But it sort of reminds me of this project 2025 question that comes up from time to time.

Why don't Democrats come up with an array of policy proposals that they can put out there to the American people? And I don't think the Democrats have done that up until this point. There's talk of this here and this there, but not a, hey, we're doing, we want to do all of these things. Vote on this. Yeah. And I think, look, in large part, that's what I seek to do with the book by putting putting out into the zeitgeist a lot of the stuff that I think Democrats should run on. I understand why we haven't seen it yet because I think in large part it is so difficult to break through with a forward-leaning agenda, a proactive agenda, when everybody is just contending with the cavalcade of shit that is falling on us on a daily basis from this White House. But, you know, after midterms, I do think that Trump is so unpopular and Republicans who let him

do everything he's doing by offering no check on his power. All of these people are so unpopular that I think at least up until midterms, that will be enough. But I think after midterms, if there's no proactive agenda, it's not going to be enough for people

for whom anti-Trump has been the prevailing theme. I think... Well, I appreciate it, but I don't think so. I cover these people every day. They're out of their they're out of their minds. I would never subject myself to that because then I would have to deal with

people like me. Yeah. And me. And you, yeah. Nobody wants that. Yeah. But I think, I think, you know, in large part, it's, it's, on every issue, we, there are things that Democrats can and must do. I think on the issues of democracy, me, I talked about expanding the court, I talked about passing a, a new iteration of the Freedom to Vote Act. We need election day to be a national holiday. We need to ban partisan gerrymandering nationwide. We need to make sure that we have automatic voter registration, and we need to make sure we get this shit done because that is the foundation of our democracy

on issues of health care. I advocate in this book for Medicare for All. I think it is crazy that in the richest country in the world, we don't have universal health care, but we have $125 billion to go to war with Iran again in the aftermath of a campaign where they campaigned expressly on avoiding foreign wars, forever wars in the Middle East?

I think just two days ago, Trump posted on truth social that we're going to be the guardians of the Hormuz Strait. That's what he said. Okay, so we're going to be the guardians of the Hormuz Strait. To be the guardians, that means you have to have a presence there permanently. And Iran is a hostile nation compared to the United States, which means we are basically, what he's saying is effectively that we need to be in a forever war.

So it is just crazy that we have. have money for this stuff. It's crazy that we have money for a ballroom that, by the way, we were told we wouldn't have to pay for, and lo and behold, we're paying for it. It's crazy that we have money to pay for the retrofitting of a Qatari jet that Donald Trump gets to keep after he leaves office. That he can't even fly in because it's not safe. Yeah. We always have money for this bullshit, but we never have money to pay for the thing that actually impacts regular people. So I think we are so far past the point where we can say, how do we pay for it, when the reality is how can we afford not to pay for something like that?

Yeah. I'm with you. I don't know how anybody can argue that the health care system in this country is working. I mean, you get these bills from your doctor's office and it says the insurance company took this part out and this went out over here, but now you owe $65 and $84. Does anybody know what that $65? None of it makes any sense. And so I think that's another one of those issues where Democrats are getting out there on the candidate. campaign trail and they're not talking about universal health care in this country. I mean, what are you doing? And I think people are tired of the half loaf.

A hundred percent. And I think Trump has been instructive in that sense because, again, when you have somebody who has shown zero deference to institutions, he's shown how easy it is to blow through this stuff. Now, he does it, again, to get what he wants. But I think that there is less adherence to any of our institutions, of which our health care system is one. So I was in favor of and appreciated this getting into the conversation, into the national discourse, in the 2020 election. I think Medicare for all, I mean, look, also

2016 was another instance in which we were talking about it. But I think that's an idea whose time has come. And I think we are in a moment where we are going to see a major political realignment. the rebuilding of our government and our institutions, and I think health care is a major component of that. And so I do think that that is an idea whose moment has come. Yeah, no, I agree with you 100%. I think this is another great question. This is from K, this gets into what voters can do.

Other than standard things like campaign donations, voter registration, phone banking, door knocking, letter writing, what are other things citizens can do to elevate impact? I hear this question all the time. What do you think? You take this one. Well, I will tell you, And I was thinking about this during our 250th birthday in this country.

I know people were down in the dumps because Donald Trump was the president during our 250. Like, do we have to really have this guy for our 250th birthday and so on? And the thing that I came up with, and it really is just the bare minimum that we need to ask everybody. And I would love to see a commitment from everybody in this audience that you just say to yourself, I can outlast this moment. You just say to yourself, we can get through this. No more it's over. No more it's all going down the tubes.

No more are we actually going to get to the other. No, you just say to yourself, I can outlast this moment. I can get through this. I think that's a good place to start. We can worry about all the other stuff, bringing people to the polls and driving a bus to make sure everybody at the nursing home gets to the polls and so on. and getting out on No King's Day and those kinds of things,

but can you just at least, at the very least, not give up? That's what I say. That's what I say. But maybe you have more to offer on that. I think another idea is, you know, when I was during the pre-order period of this book, I made a decision along with Mark Elias that I would donate a portion of the proceeds to the free election fund.

The free election fund is Mark's 501C3 that focuses on election litigation. We were just speaking about the fact that the courts have been the last bulwark for democracy. And in large part, these attorneys who are showing up every day and fighting these battles and winning are why we're still in a position where we can succeed. The work that Mark does, the work that somebody like Norm Eisen does, these are folks who are out there fighting these battles on the front line right now. So I think, you know, in terms of looking for places to offer up

you know, some contributions for those who are looking to help, the free election fund is something that I think is particularly important in this moment, especially as we get closer and closer to midterms, where we see that the Republicans are throwing everything they have at these cases. Yeah, you know, you're so right. Mark's group is terrific. And you mentioned Norm Eisen too. Norm Eisen defending the man who's been falsely accused of vandalizing the reflecting pool.

I just went down there today. There is no gash in the middle of the reflecting. I just hope everybody understand. I know that comes as a surprise that Donald Trump was lying about this. But I went down, I was like, I should just go. The pool has been drained. I couldn't, first of all, I couldn't believe they drained the reflecting pool. Because I was like, if you drain the reflecting pool,

we're all going to see that he's been lying this whole time. And as it turns out, he has been lying this whole time. I wonder if driving a 7,000-pound cavalcade of SUVs over the 9,000. not yet dry reflecting pool had any impact on the reflecting pool's inability to dry properly. Yeah. I tell you. It's so true. If they're looking for the elusive vandals, I think we found them. Yeah. But no, but it raises a good point in that, I mean, we've seen up until this point the Justice Department being weaponized and going after people like Jim Comey and Letitia James and so on. But now they're just going after people like David Hearn. Now they're just going after an Olympic

canoeist because they have to prove that the dear leader is right and that they're have been people vandalizing the reflecting pool when that's not the case. Doesn't that piss you off? Doesn't that make you mad? It makes me so mad. I mean, even Kilmar-Abrego-Garcia, that whole situation where they knew they fucked up. They even had a DOJ lawyer come and say that this was done as the result of an administrative error. But because they needed to make an example of them, because they are fueled solely by ego,

they continued to prosecute this guy and make this guy's life a living hell because it's It's not about the merits, it's just about making sure that the thin skin president has his win. And so, yeah, I mean, the extent to which the DOJ has been weaponized, and this federal government has weaponized even regular people. I mean, hell, if you go on whitehouse.gov, you'll find my name under the media offenders list. Yeah, oh boy. And I'll tell you what. Yeah. Welcome to being one of the enemy of the people.

That's right. I'll tell you what. Once that happened, I promoted the everlasting shit out of that because I was like, I'm selling shirts that say media offender on my website. If anybody wants to buy them, I wanted to make it so that that would become such a backfire for this administration that it becomes so toxic. I use that to promote the hell out of myself because I wanted them to know that if you're going to try and chill content creators into silence in the same way that you've been effective at doing so

with law firms and universities and tech CEOs and legacy media companies and all of these people who presumably have so much power and so much money and so much influence and yet they bend over backwards and capitually to Trump the second they have the opportunity to do so because they are leveraged by the federal government,

we're not. Independent media doesn't answer to anybody. Like, I don't need anything from the White House. I know you don't need anything from the White House. And so... Thank God. The question is, what's the point of having fuck you money if you can't say

fuck you to this administration? Good point. And the interesting thing is, in the aftermath of that moment where I just wore it as a badge of honor publicly as much as I could and I know my friend David Pakman

did the exact same thing. He was also on that list. They didn't add anybody else to the list. There was no broader campaign to create a whole faction of content creators who they were going to target because they realized that all we're getting is free publicity. All they're doing is giving free publicity to the critics of this administration.

So the list just stands at like three people right now. Yeah, as I used to say, where do I send the check? You know, where do I send the check? I mean, they're not taking it down because I think that would be an admission of defeat and the last thing this administration is going to do. So now I just have a living memorial to this administration's temporary effort

to target independent media. Well, on that note, I just want to say, Brian, it's been an honor for me to be here with you this evening with all of you this evening. And there has been an expression that courage is contagious. Brian, you bring so much passion to the table to this subject, to rescuing our democracy, saving this country, saving this country from a very dark moment that we're in the middle of right now. I just hope that the passion you bring to this is infectious, is contagious, and that all of you have picked up on some of this tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you. Best of luck. Thank you. I want to thank you, Jim, for being here and taking time out of your schedule to help me out tonight. And, you know, I know you have fans in every single person in this room. They're all paid. I pay them all. Not just for the work that you're doing right now, but also for being a voice for so many people throughout the entirety of this administration. It was, it's an honor to be able to sit here with somebody who stood up to this administration when they were fighting against media figures in the early days. and you were chief among them. So thank you for the work that you've done.

Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Brian Tyler Cohen, buy his book the day after. Yes, there will be a day after. Don't worry. And Brian's going to show us how. Thank you, man.

I want to say one more thing if I can. Yeah, one more thing. Thank you to the team at Six and I for making this happen. And thank you to you all for being here. I know that there are a million reasons to check out with the despair that I think is purposefully engineered

to make us feel. So the fact that you all showed up, took time out of your busy schedules, and are staying engaged and involved in this stuff, is the singular thing that gives me hope for the future of this country. So thank you to everybody for doing here. Thank you. Well said. Well said.

Thanks, guys. Thank you. Nice to see all of you. Nice to see all of you. Thank you. Thanks again to Jim Acosta. That's it for this episode. Talk to you on Wednesday.

You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to Brian Tyler Cohen.com to learn more.