No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Trump suffers devastating unintended consequence of NY trial

Episode Date: April 21, 2024

Trump deals with the unexpected consequences of being on trial right now. Brian interviews the nation’s premiere voting rights attorney and my co-host for my YouTube series, Democracy Watch, Marc Elias, about the Supreme Court right now hearing a case that may serve as a gift to Trump and the January 6 insurrectionists.Donate to the "Don't Be A Mitch" fund: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/dontbeamitchShop merch: https://briantylercohen.com/shopYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/briantylercohenTwitter: https://twitter.com/briantylercohenFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/briantylercohenInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/briantylercohenPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/briantylercohenNewsletter: https://www.briantylercohen.com/sign-upWritten by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today, we're going to talk about the unexpected consequences of Trump being on trial right now, and I interview the nation's premier voting rights attorney and my co-host for my YouTube series Democracy Watch, Mark Elias, about the Supreme Court right now hearing a case that may serve as a gift to Trump and the January 6th insurrectionists. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. So I think we're finally starting to see why Trump so desperately wanted to avoid trial. First of all, there's the obvious one that he doesn't want to be a convicted felon, and according to the latest Reuters Ipsos poll from a couple of weeks ago,

when registered voters were asked that they would vote for Trump if he was convicted of a felony, only 24% said yes, while 60% said no. Even among just Republicans, 24% said they wouldn't, which is a huge number of voters in a party whose identity is solely predicated on allegiance to the God King. And now that the process of this trial has started and is actually moving quite quickly, this train ain't stop until it reaches the station. So we may see Trump become a convicted felon in the coming weeks. not exactly the resume builder you want ahead of an imminent election.

And granted, Trump will claim that it doesn't matter, that if voters don't care, that's bullshit. Look, most people aren't totally tuned in politics right now. I wish more people were, but they're not. But they will be more and more come November. And when those independents or those soft Republicans or those suburban moms do finally tune in only to find that the guy's been convicted of a felony, you are kidding yourself if you think that that's going to do anything but hurt him. Don't want to generalize here, but people aren't looking for felons to lead the U.S.

military. But aside from that one, because again, that's a gimmy, there's also the day-to-day optics of Donald Trump in the courtroom. He's fallen asleep three out of four days, which, look, I'm sure it's boring in there. But if your principal attack against your opponent is that he is literally sleepy, then your only job is to stay awake. If you have to fill your pockets with caffeine pills, if you have to wear a shock collar, you stay awake. But Trump, the leader of the Sleepy Joe movement, can't manage to do that, which objectively severely limits his ability to then go out in these pivotal last few months of campaigning and claim that Biden is tired. Biden is all over the country. Just this week, he's been to Philly, Scranton, Pittsburgh,

Delaware. The week before, he was in Baltimore and Madison, doesn't exactly square with the talking point that Biden's locked away in some basement somewhere while Trump is filled with youthful vigor, right? And when he does manage to stay awake, frankly, the guy looks weak. He's reduced to these sad little courtroom hallway press conferences where he prints. out a bunch of articles from Fox hosts, who he calls legal scholars, saying that this prosecution is wrong. He's whining every day about election interference, then he's going to miss Barron's graduation, which I'm sure was very much on his radar before he realized it could be the focus of a nice little pity party. He just looks weak. He looks pathetic. He's supposed to be strong,

but he's kind of just this tired old man who bitches and moans a lot. And it's embarrassing. It's not strong. And look, I think Trump's whole idea of a strong man has always been backwards. But I can at least see it from Republican voters' perspective. I could see how they would think that he looked strong and tough. The guy we're seeing now is just the polar opposite. And so without that, what do you have left? And granted, Trump's campaign is trying their best to spin something out of this. He did some campaign stop at Chick-fil-A and bought milkshakes, and right-wing media is just pretending like they found their messiah, like it was the most brilliant campaign move in modern American history, that after Trump was finished being at trial for 34 felony counts, he went to a

fast food place. Really compelling stuff. Like somebody get this guy the nuclear football. So yeah, it's all just very pathetic and it's happening at the exact moment that election season is ramping up and November's approaching and people are starting to pay attention. And this is the Donald Trump that they're seeing. So that's not great. And then of course, there's the positive stuff happening from Biden's perspective. We've got a strong economy. Job growth is still defying the odds and surging. Unemployment remains below 4% for 26 straight months now. Stock market is still strong. Ukraine aid is going to be signed in to law this week. That's some great news. And finally, here's a great one. Organizers have managed to get

abortion on the ballot all over this country, and especially in swing states, Florida, Montana, Arizona, New York, and now Nevada, another major swing state. Republicans have basically found every rake they could and stepped on them over and over and over again, and it's all coming at the worst time. And look, I don't say any of this so that you'll feel like this is in the bag. The point isn't to feel complacent. The point is to know that there is some hope that if we continue to organize and donate and stay involved and stay informed that we've got the tools to win, that in a sea of what feels like constant bad news, there's at least some stuff to be hopeful about. Next up is my conversation with Mark Elias.

So Mark, Trump's first criminal trial is underway right now in New York. I want to point your attention to a tweet that's gained some attention on the right, and throughout the rest of the ecosystem as well, a conservative internet provocateur. His name is Clay Travis. He wrote, if you're a Trump supporter in New York City, who is part of the jury pool, do everything you can to get seated on the jury, and then refuse to convict as a matter of principle, dooming the case via hung jury. It's the most patriotic thing you could possibly do. Mark, is this instruction legal? Because it sounds like jury tampering.

Okay, so it's not the most patriotic thing you could do. It's the most illegal thing you could do. So, you know, I strongly recommend if you are listening to someone named Clay Travis, you probably need a lawyer, okay? Because you are not allowed to lie to the judge during jury selection. And the judge during jury selection will ask every prospective juror a series of questions. Some of the questions, the court has come up with, some of the questions the two parties have come up with, other questions will come up along the way. But fundamental to all of the questions are, can you be fair? Do you have an open mind? Will you follow the evidence? And are you able to render a verdict based on that evidence?

So to the extent whoever Mr. Travis is is suggesting to you that you do something other than that, don't do it, don't lie, get off the jury if you have, if you are unable to be open-minded. If you purposely get on a jury and have a closed mind, it sometimes comes up. The other jurors will actually rat you out during deliberations. They'll be like, this one juror wouldn't deliberate. So, a bad idea. Now, would this guy, Clay Travis himself have any legal exposure for suggesting as much? Now, do we know if Clay Travis is actually a real person?

You know, like, or is he just like an internet account? Right. But just like one of Elon's, one of Elon's manifestations. I mean, I've been dealing with this over the last few days. There's one guy who's like, you know, Mark, how does it feel to have lost that big case in the white when you worked in the White House? And I'm like, I never worked in the White House. Now he's fighting on the internet about with other people that he thinks I did work. in the way. But in any event, look, I don't think a judge is going to track down Clay Travis,

with all due respect to Mr. Travis's profile. He's just not going to be worth it. I mean, theoretically, he would have legal exposure for this, but he would say it's just First Amendment speech. But look, I think that really the liability here would be on anyone dumb enough to follow Travis's advice. Now, how confident are you that the prosecutors would be able to weed out any moles that did make their way onto a jury. Yeah, so it's not just the prosecutors, right? It's the judge. So don't over, don't overestimate the role of the parties in jury selection versus the

judge, right? They all play a role here. But, you know, judges have, have this judge in particular who's very experienced, has overseen the choosing of a lot of juries and a lot of juries and a lot of high-profile cases. And they have ways of asking and re-asking questions. that are intended to ferret out these kinds of moles, as you put it. They gather a lot of information.

They ask them a lot of questions. It doesn't mean that once in a blue moon, they don't get through. But between the judge's questions and the ability of the prosecutors to strike jurors who just give them a gut sense, you know, each side gets a certain number of what are called preemptory challenges, which is basically you get the challenges. for no reason, as long as it's not a legal reason, you know, just based on a gut sense. The prosecutors who also have done a lot of jury selection in Manhattan in New York City will have the ability to strike those people as well.

Now, moving on to day one of the trial itself, Trump was complaining that the judge wasn't allowing him to attend his son's high school graduation. First of all, that's not true. The judge didn't even rule on that question yet. But more broadly, what's your reaction to this sense of victimhood from the guy who's charged with committing 34 felonies. That's, I mean, look, this guy is sleeping through his own trial, Donald Trump. He's not an off and sleeping through his own trial. Could you imagine if he actually went to Barron's high school graduation, how much sleeping he would do?

He'd catch up on like an entire, like, he'd get an entire mid-afternoon nap. Yeah. I doubt that Donald Trump actually intended or intends to go to Barron's high school graduation. He doesn't seem to be an overly involved father. You know what I mean? Like, school auditoriums doesn't seem like his vibe. Yeah. But look, as you point out, like, he is already complaining about having to miss his son's

graduation. He's also complaining about missing the Supreme Court argument. He's complaining about not being able to campaign. He's complaining. He's complaining. He just wants to complain. The fact is that a criminal defendant is, is, a criminal defendant is, you know, is out on bail as a privilege, okay?

Like, he's not in custody right now because, you know, he has met the requirements to not be in custody. But as a criminal defendant, there are certain obligations you have, and the minimum one, the absolute minimum one, is to show up to your own trial every day. Right? Like, you cannot, like, it is not an optional event. It's not like, oh, yeah, this day seems really boring,

and I'll skip it. He has to show up to trial every day. That is actually a requirement. the judge actually had to read him his warning that said if you don't show up to trial we will issue an arrest warrant and you will be you know you'll be arrested so so look you know he is not he the judge has not yet actually denied the request to go to his graduation but but I think the judge will deny it because as you know he can't miss the trial and it would mean meaning that the jury is inconvenient because the jury would then have to take that day off. So I think Barron will have to live with the indignity of Donald Trump not sleeping in the audience during this trial. There is also some irony in the fact that all of this is happening. This trial right now is happening because just weeks or months after Baron himself was born,

Donald Trump decided to have an affair with a woman named Stormy Daniels, who he then would pay hush money to in an illegal campaign finance scheme. and that is the very issue that he's on trial for right now. So, I mean, like, spare us the father of the year routine. Yeah, it's also, by the way, really interesting. And I don't know if you've noticed this. It hasn't been widely reported, but I think it's really important for people out there who are watching the trial to note is, as far as I can tell, neither Melania nor Barron nor any of the other Trump kids have actually shown up to stand by their father at the trial, which is like the bare minimum of, like, criminal defendant's sort of posturing, right?

Which is that when you are on trial, the least you want is your family sitting behind you so that the jury and the judge and everyone sees that there is someone in the world who cares about you, like your wife, your children. He apparently can't even muster that. So I don't think that, as you say, he's going to win father of the year award. And I think his family seems to be voting with its feet. Yeah, exactly. You know, Trump is also claiming that he's heard many legal scholars, because, as you must know, Mark, Donald Trump is very attuned to the intricacies of the world of legal scholarship.

He hangs out with legal scholars. Hangs out with legal scholars, that this case shouldn't have even been brought. Can you discuss why this case should have been brought and why it is especially strong? So I actually saw this post, not tweet, whatever it is that he posted and then he said it orally this morning. So I went actually looking for the legal scholars. Like, I was trying to figure out like, who the hell he's even talking about. So it's like Jonathan Turley, he mentioned. Of course, of course.

The rubber stamp for any conservative position, you just find Jonathan Turley and pluck him out of it. Jonathan Turley is just Mike Lindell with tenure, right? Like, like, if Jonathan Turley made pillows and didn't have a guaranteed job at George Washington law school, like you'd be like, you'd be like, yeah, yeah, right? Like, which one is like somewhere below overstock.com guy? would be Jonathan Durley. Like, look, there is no legal scholar who knows anything about campaign finance law, who knows anything about New York criminal law, who thinks that this case shouldn't have been wrong.

This is a relatively straightforward case, which is why Donald Trump is so panicked about it, because as you pointed out, it is pretty much without doubt that he had an affair with Stormy Daniels, as you point out, the timing of it is somewhat inconvenient for the Father of the Year award, that he also, let's not forget, had an affair with another woman. That other woman was paid hushed money by the National Inquirer. How do we know that? Because the National Inquirer will say, a publisher will say that that's what happened. And Stormy Daniels will pay hush money. How do we know that? Because there are checks to Stormy Daniels signed by Donald Trump and Michael Cohn will testify to that. So the underlying facts around this are actually not in dispute.

So I don't think that he's going to win on the legal scholar front. I suspect that his lawyers are going to have to come up with something better than that, whatever it may be. Can you also speak on the fact that Michael Cohen went to prison for the same scheme that was directed by the guy who's currently the defendant on trial right now? Yeah, look, this is the one place where I actually can't believe I'm going to say I agree with Michael Cohen on something. but it's it's really shameful that the federal prosecutors didn't prosecute Donald Trump. You know, I'm not going to join into the whole like where it was Merrick Garland because I actually don't think this had anything to do with Merrick Garland. I think this was the Southern District of New York.

They make their own prosecution decisions around this. But it is inexplicable how it was that Michael Cohen, who was the lawyer who arranged for these checks to be delivered, wound up being. being prosecuted, but Donald Trump, who was his client and who actually signed the checks, wasn't, I think that there is, that that is going to be, history is going to look back on that and not just find it curious, is what are going to say, that that was actually kind of like the original sin of failing to treat seriously the crimes of Donald Trump had committed, because that case should have been, that case could have been brought a long time ago,

and it would have been a slam dunk. We got to finish with this. I need to get your thoughts on, uh, on drowsy Don, falling asleep mid-trial? I mean, okay, first of all, the fact that he is falling asleep in the middle of afternoon now a couple of days in a row, you know, I think tells you everything you needed to know about his. Which one might think would be a pretty momentous occasion for a normal person, but this guy

is so steeped in his own criminality that he can't even stay awake for being on trial for 34 criminal counts. Right. So that's the thing, right? Like, so look, he's, he's an old man. He is suffering, obviously, from some mental decline. And he's very low energy, right? He's very low energy.

Jeb Bush looks at him and says, you are very low energy. But what is sort of shocking about this is that usually a criminal defendant on trial at the beginning of the case. You know, like when they're doing jury selection, there's a lot of adrenaline rushing. Why? Because you're sitting in a courtroom while people are sitting across you answering questions about whether or not they are going to decide whether or not you go to prison or not. So usually this is a very high adrenaline motion. Usually the problem, and I've tried criminal cases, you know, so I have first-hand experience with this, you know, usually the problem as a criminal defense lawyer is keeping your client

sort of in their seat. So like if you had asked me, where would, what would have been the problems on day one and two, it would have been that Donald Trump was like mouthing things or like jumping out of his seat or insisting on objecting. Instead, he's, he's following. asleep he's drooling he's like nodding off and drooling i i really think something must be medically wrong with him uh because it's literally his criminal trial yeah um so there you go yeah well mentally add that to the to the long list of uh of issues with donald trump right here i know of course

well he started doing this thing also where he like starts down a road and he doesn't get lost so much as he just like starts making up words so it'll be like i went to north carolina and then pensus zittlerbba and really little above like it's and he has too much of an ego to ever correct himself so he just commits to the to the absurdity and just gets lost on this like track of just not even sounding like a human being yeah thanks again to mark that's it for this episode talk to you next week you've been listening to no lie with brian tyler cohen produced by sam graber music by wellsey and interviews edited for youtube by nicholas nicotera if you want to support the show please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to Brian Tyler Cohen.com to learn more.