No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Trump’s FBI goes after another enemy

Episode Date: May 6, 2026

Trump’s FBI goes after yet another political opponent. Brian interviews Ro Khanna, Dan Pfeiffer, and Bobby laPinPre-order THE DAY AFTER: https://www.harpercollins.com/pages/thedayafter Sign up for Message Box: https://www.messageboxnews.com/Support Bobby LaPin: https://bobbyforbaltimore.com/Written by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Trump's FBI goes after yet another political opponent, and I've got three interviews, Ro Kana, Dan Pfeiffer, and Bobby Lepin. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. Another shock move by Trump's FBI, where the latest victim of his weaponized government is State Senator Louise Lucas from Virginia, whose office was just rated in Portsmouth, Virginia, along with the cannabis business that she's affiliated with next door. Now, it's important to note that this comes just days after Virginia was successful in passing a 10-to-one map, where she, Louise Lucas, was one of the leaders of that effort.

The Virginia redraw will be an important step in fighting back against the entitlement that Trump felt to add more House seats in red states in Texas, North Carolina, Missouri, Ohio, Florida, just to name a few. Now, the DOJ isn't offering any information right now. We don't have any information about any charges that have been filed, if any, normally in a situation like this, the responsible thing for me to do is to wait until we have more information. but I think it would be a fool not to point out that I don't think it's a coincidence

that Lucas is now in the FBI's crosshairs just two weeks after she dared fight back against Republicans redistricting overreach, especially considering weaponizing this Justice Department against his political opponents has become the hallmark of Trump's administration. We've seen it against James Comey, Letitia James, Adam Schiff, Jerome Powell, Tim Walsh, Jacob Frye, the list goes on and on. But this is what this administration does, takes action against. against anyone who dares fight back against this White House. So Trump can apparently say that he's entitled to five seats in Texas,

but as soon as Democrats fight fire with fire and seek four in Virginia, they sick the FBI on them. I mean, it's so obvious that even Obama brought it up in his latest interview with Stephen Colbert. The White House shouldn't be able to direct the Attorney General to go around prosecuting whoever the president of prosecution. Right, because technically it's under the executive branch. The norm is that it's independent. The idea is that the Attorney General is the people's lawyer.

It's not the president's con sigliary. Right, even when it's Bobby Kennedy. It's Bobby Kennedy. And so two of the core principles of a democracy. We can survive a lot. Bad policy, funky elections. There's a bunch of stuff that we can, you know, we can overcome, we can't overcome the politicization of the criminal justice system.

The awesome power of the state. You can't have a situation in which whoever's in charge of the government starts using that to go after their political enemies. And look, I could sit here and condemn the hypocrisy of the party that just last Congress convened a weaponization of government subcommittee because they claimed to hate weaponized government just that much? I could condemn Trump's actions without the hypocrisy of their past comments. I could complain about the fact that they want to abuse their positions to the ends of the earth and only complain when Democrats dare punch back. But I'm going to spare you because,

look, I think you all get it, right? At this point, I actually think that our time is better spent talking about the solution if and when we're in a position to solve this with full control of government, something that I will fight for so long as I can. I'm going to read an excerpt from my new book the day after. Restoring the rule of law starts with accountability for the corrupt officials who have perverted public service into a private profit machine. Inside the new Justice Department, there will need to be a special unit of prosecutors and investigators tasked with pursuing corruption charges throughout the Trump years, not just to deliver justice to criminals, but to deter future corruption in later administrations. There were hundreds of prosecutors involved in the cases surrounding the January 6th insurrection.

The corruption prosecutions for crimes committed during the second Trump term will surely involve similar numbers of prosecutors. However, they must move with more speed and determination than the Biden Justice Department. Merrick Garland put optics above justice. The opposite approach must be taken by the next Democratic AG. Now, if you'd like to support my work, please consider ordering my new book the day after. I'm going to put a link in the show notes of this episode. As you know, I never paywall a single piece of my content. I never will. But this one time I'll ask for some support and I really appreciate it. So look, I say this now because there will come a time when we're in power again. I don't want to see a single second of that time wasted negotiating among ourselves whether it's

worth it to take clear aggressive action. It is. Our lack of that kind of action before is what landed us here in the first place. We need to not only hold these criminals accountable, but deter them from doing this ever again in the future. Because look, you can have a democracy or you can have this banana republic weaponization, but not both. Next up are my interviews with Rokana, Dan Pfeiffer, and Bobby Lepin. No Lie is brought to you by Helix. So I sleep on the midnight Helix Elite, and I have to say, as a terrible sleeper, I love my bed. I think that for roughly my entire life, I have had trouble falling asleep.

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who's in Trump's administration. Can you explain what the point of that hearing was first and foremost and anything remarkable that came out of it? Well, there turned out to be no point to it because Howard Lutnik basically lied throughout the deposition. No one who has come before our committee, in my view, has lied more. He was supposed to be forthcoming. He was supposed to tell us what he knew about Epstein. He was supposed to explain why he had told the American people that he never met Epstein

when it came out that he had taken his family to the island in 2012. And the reality is he basically lied. He said that when he told the American people that he would never meet Epstein after 2005, he meant just himself. He wasn't talking about going and meeting him with his family. I mean, can you imagine that? That he thought it was too disgusting to meet him himself, but he was fine to have his wife and kids go with him.

And then what was most shocking is I asked him, well, you know, you said that Epstein was, blackmailing people. You said that he was recording massages. And he says, I was just speculating. I said, okay, what did you base that speculation on? No, I was just speculating on a podcast. And then he says, now I don't believe it anymore. I say, why? Because he said, I now have consulted the Trump administration, and I don't believe it anymore. I don't think he engaged in blackmailing. So it was a cover-up. It was a lies. You know, Donald Trump would fire him on the spot if he saw that video. Should Howard Lutnik resign from his position?

Yes. The fact that he's not resigning is such an indictment of our nation. You know, here you've had the former Prince Andrew be prosecuted. You have Lauren Mendelsohn and Britain be prosecuted. It's literally bringing down Norwegian royalty. You have business leaders in France being prosecuted. And here you have a sitting cabinet member who's lied about his involvement with Epstein, who is lying about whether Epstein blackmailed or not in his contact with Ebstin. who is basically, if you saw the interview, if it was videotaped, you could tell he was sweating, he was mumbling, he was nervous, and he's still in the cabinet. It says that we're taking no accountability for what I call the Epstein class. People were caught up with this person and excused his behavior. I'm not saying that Howard Lucknick was involved in any way in raping or abusing young girls. I don't believe that based on the evidence, but I do believe that he knew much more about what Epstein was doing and he's covering up. Was that hearing under oath? I'm assuming the answer to that is no. And if not, is there a situation where he could be called back to testify, given that you think he was lying during this afternoon's

hearing and actually get him under oath so that there are some consequences if he decides to lie again? Well, there are consequences with a transcribed interview, not under oath by lying to Congress as a crime, under a transcribed interview. So a future administration could certainly look to whether he perjured himself. And he's put it out there where more things come out. It very well could be evidence of perjury. We should call him again to testify to the American people because his answers are so unbelievable. Look, if he had come out and he said, I said that I never met Epstein after 2005, I was wrong. We did have this trip. I was embarrassed to disclose it. That's the truth. I didn't want to subject my family to that disclosure. And I regret it. I should have been more

transparent. You know, I would have honestly come out and said, okay, he was introspective. He understood he messed up. But for him to be lying so blatantly saying, no, I didn't mean that my family couldn't meet Epstein. I was just talking about myself being in a room. For him to be saying that, No, I didn't mean that Epstein was blackmailing people, that Epstein was video recording people. It's just a cover up. And this is what infuriates folks, people who are powerful covering up for other rich and powerful men. And the victims, the survivors are the ones who are treated as dispensable. Two tiers of justice in America. Can you talk about the difference here between why Howard Lutnik was given a closed door deposition versus a public hearing? Yes, the Republicans are in power. They want to embarrass the Clintons and they don't want to embarrass

our Lutnik. This is not some law school class or any rational reason why one person was treated differently. This was the Republican majority protecting the president's cabinet member. There is absolutely zero reason this should not have been videotaped. And now I'm sure Comer thinks that was a great decision because I guarantee you, Brian, you were not. in the room, but you can ask any others who were if the American people had seen that interview, Lutnik would have been done. By the end of today, it would have been done. Would you be willing to commit to if Democrats are able to retake the House in midterms this year, that not just Howard Lutnik, but any of these other folks who were involved with Epstein in any way

could be called to testify publicly? Yes, because this is a personal cause for me. I get texts from survivors every other day. I, this has become. so personal to me to see these women go through what they have for decades, to see them treated as totally dispensable, and then to see powerful men lying, having no remorse, no introspection, I'm not going to let that stand. And I know some people say, move on, just talk about Iran, just talk about gas prices, but you can't do that when you've met these survivors, when you've seen their trauma, when you have people at airports come up to you and say, let me tell you about the trauma in my life when I was abused. So I'm 100% committed to calling Epstein,

I mean, Lutnik, and others. And I know Robert Garcia, a great ranking member, has the same passion. Congressman, there seems to be like an impasse here because we have three million files that still haven't been released. Todd Blanche has basically made it clear with Pam Bondi's departure that what went with it was any hope of having those three million files released. And so where do we go from here where they continue to be in violation of the Epstein Files Transparency which you co-authored with Thomas Massey and there just doesn't seem to be any movement or urgency or desire to abide by by the law you know as it as it relates to those other three three million files look people used to ask me is this going to have to wait till 2029 when we had a Democratic

president and he'd say no I think we're going to get there before that but at this point it's going to require a Democratic Congress. It's going to require Democratic Senate and ultimately a Democratic president to get justice, the true justice. But we're not going to give up now. We're going to push for more people like Bill Gates coming, other people who visited the island coming. Pam Bondi is coming to the committee. You do have a group of Republicans who I've worked with, Nancy Mays, Anna Luna, and others who are committed to at least getting more transparency. And we're going to fight inch by inch until more files come out. And none of the until people are held accountable. But I can tell you this, on day one, a new president is going to have

to commit to meeting with the survivors' lawyers, opening up investigations, releasing the rest of the files. And on day one, when we have the Oversight Committee, we need to be, I think, have an Epstein Select Committee where we just have a reckoning in this country with that Epstein class. And would you be willing to chair that committee if you were asked? Well, I'm happy to do it in a bipartisan way, but there are a lot of good people. I mean, I actually think that it may be good to have some of the women who have really been front and center for survivors. Summer Lee, Ianna Presley, they also get an opportunity to take the lead.

Yes, Massey and I passed the law, but this is beyond Massey and me. And I think maybe a bipartisan committee with one of the great women leaders, Summerlee, who got the subpoena passed in the Oversight Committee. She would be perfect. And last question here. in terms of the prospect of another or another iteration of the Epsine Files Transparency Act, one with teeth against a DOJ or an administration that seeks to violate it. Is that still in the works?

What are you thinking about that? Well, one, Katie Fang, I don't know if you saw brought a lawsuit that's very compelling. It says that under the Administrative Procedures Act, the Justice Department is required to give the files. The Administrative Procedure Act says that an agency cannot do things in violation of the law that harm the public. And one of those things is not being transparent. So you may have the files be released under that theory of the case. Of course, you can bring obstruction of justice and survivors can. Look, I wish Massey and I had included a private clause of action, but the reason we didn't is the numbers weren't there. You know the Republican attitude towards trial lawyers and plaintiff's

lawyers. I like them. And I believe they're critical to taking on corporate power. We just wouldn't have gotten it passed. So if we can do it now, I'm open. to it, but again, it runs into the dilemma of how do you get the Republicans on board. Well, I appreciate you taking the time today, and thanks so much for the work that you continue to do on this topic. Thank you, Brian. No Lie is brought to you by Zbiotics pre-alcohol. So I have to tell you about this game-changing product that I use before a night out with drinks.

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Zbiotics is backed with a 100% money-back guarantee. So if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash BTC and use code BTC at checkout for 15% off. I'm joined now by the co-host of POTSafe America, Dan, thanks for joining me. Hey, Brian, how are you?

Good. So, Dan, we have seen right now in the aftermath of the Supreme Court decision gutting the Voting Rights Act, this mad dash from a bunch of Republican Southern states Alabama, Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, where Republicans are either calling for or just straight up moving to redraw their state's maps. How worried should Democrats be about this kind of 11th hour, this last minute map redraw in a cycle

that had otherwise had pretty rosy prospects for Democrats? There's two ways to look at this, right? How concern should we be for the battle to take the House in 2026, then how, how how much should we be concerned about the longer-term prospects of the effect of this. So let's start with the House in 2026. Look, the Republicans are going to be able to pick up some seats they would not otherwise win, certainly one in Louisiana. You know, maybe they'll get these four seats in Florida, which predates the decision,

but it sort of legally sort of legally validates the redistricting map that Desan just did. Maybe they get four. Maybe not. It's not super clear. maybe they're going to get one more in Tennessee. We'll see. So it's a small handful of seats that they could pick up, they could help them. And in a very close election, that could be the difference.

Most of the modeling suggested that this should not stop Democrats from taking the House, given how everything else looks right now in May. But it's not great. Like we were in a great position before this decision. The decision has made things a little bit harder for 2026. No, but longer term now, because you had just spoken about midterms in 20, 26. Talk about the longer term implications here. Longer term implications are significant, right? This could end up in a Republican that's in adding 19 to 20 new seats. It could mean the elimination

of every Democratic district across this, almost a very Democratic Democratic district across the deep south. 30% of the congressional black caucus could be gone if they fully push forward here. There are some limits on what they can do because most of these districts already, most of these state's already gerrymandered to hell already. Once you start gerrymandering them more, there is risk of what's called a dummy mander where you end up making the map worse for you than it otherwise would be. But going forward, Congress is going to be whiter, more Republican. There's going to be less minority representation in our government. And Republicans are going to have a structural advantage in the house akin to the one they already have in the Senate and the electoral college. So not great,

I'd say. Now, in terms of a longer-term solution to all of this, you know, I've been thinking about, like, okay, what do we need to do? We need the stars to align so that Democrats can win the House, stars to align so Democrats can win the Senate, stars to align so that Democrats can win the White House. Even then, we need the stars to align so that we have enough Democrats who are willing to eliminate the filibuster. If that happens, we need the stars to align so that we can actually pass a new Voting Rights Act, so that we can, you know, ban partisan gerrymandering nationwide, for example, so that we can try to rectify some of these structural issues. But even in that case, even if, as I said, all the stars align,

we have the same six three conservative court waiting in the wings to strike anything down. And so to what extent do you think that, you know, if we're really looking to solve this, the idea of court reform has to be top of mind as we head into, you know, should we be so lucky, a government where Democrats have full control to actually make sure that some of the, the reforms that we put in place have a half-life longer than just the amount of time it takes to sue and get it up to Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.

I've been a long-time advocate for Democrats to embrace court reform. There are sort of three legs to court reform. One is the very basic and very popular idea of a code of ethics, which the Supreme Court does not have, as you can see, and all the corruption involving Clarence Thomas, questions about Sam Alito, others, like, we need a code of ethics. Like, they need to be how to kind of all. That doesn't solve this problem. second piece of that is turn limits. Now, we can get term limits in place. There are constitutional

questions on that, but there are many very smart constitutional lawyers who believe there's a way to write it that would work, where you could essentially move justices to senior status, much like they do on the federal district court level, as opposed to just making them lose their lifetime federal job. So there's their option there. And then the next, and that is quite popular as well. And then the probably most impactful, but unfortunately, it's popularly is court expansion would be to add justices to the court to essentially nullify or give Democrats an opportunity or give anyone an opportunity to have more voices than, because now we're at this point where we're not many people at much younger age, so they're serving for 30, 40 years after they were

appointed, creating this long-tail effect where, you know, and I used to use an example all the time, is that when, back in 2021, when Brett Kavanaugh was Ruth Bader Ginsburg's age, my four-year-old daughter was going to be in her 30s. So this is what we are staring at from the long-term consequences of this. And so we should push for court expansion. Because the other thing I'd say, what we should do is we should do court expansion. We should run on all the other things, but let's get there and then figure it out. Okay.

So that's interesting that you say that because I asked Gavin Newsom this exact question a few days ago during an interview. And it was surprising because he kind of backed away from overtly embracing the idea of core expansion. And for somebody who's built his brand on being a fighter, like he's the guy who made Prop 50 happen and probably breathed life into it as far as Virginia was concerned. And frankly, we'll hopefully have set off a domino. effect when we see the same thing happened in New Jersey and New York and Illinois, Colorado, Washington, Oregon. But that wouldn't have happened. I truly believe it wouldn't have happened if it didn't first happen in California. And yet for him to have kind of kind of shied away from overtly embracing it, why do you think he did that? I think it's unpopular. It's the least popular

of the things we'd push for. The Republicans want to run on it in 2026. Trump does this all the time. Democrats are going to put 30 justices on the court. So embracing it. it now and calling for it now does nothing because we can do nothing with that power, even if we take the House and the Senate, we can't expand the court. Like my advice to Democrats is keep it on the table and let's see if an opportunity arises where we can actually do it. I think in a different world with a different makeup of the Senate in 2022 and a different Democratic president in the White House, there might have been an opportunity to do it after the court struck down Rubey. But because Biden, a post-court expansion, because we had

cinema and mansion that was not on the table but just here's keep it on the table as an option as we deal all the things and then because embracing it now and running on it now we can't do anything we can't do anything with it with it right and it just gives it gives republicans it an issue to attack us over that once again if we get elected we cannot implement so let's let's let the presidential let's talk about if they want to talk about it in 2028 26 we can do nothing with it just as like kind of just to just to play devil's advocate for a moment. Yeah, of course. Is what the Supreme Court's doing popular enough as it stands for, for Democrats to

kind of get hurt by running on the issue of court expansion? Like, isn't this Supreme Court so unpopular that there would be many people for whom the idea of disempowering Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito will actually be kind of an affirmative factor in getting them to vote? The Supreme Court has never been... less popular or less trusted that it is right now. That is 100% true. I haven't seen polling on court expansion recently, but it's always been underwater. And a lot of it is not, is what people don't really understand like what it means, how it would work. Like it's,

it's confusing to people. There's an argument to make for it and I'm happy to make that argument that I think actually does work. Is that the 13 court circuits? I mean, like the, the number of, the number of justices on the Supreme Court has always been, has always been in line with the number of federal court circuits, dating back to the early 1800s. There were six federal court circuits. Then there's six Supreme Court justices that number went to eight, I believe, in 1837. Then there were eight Supreme Court justices. Now there are 13 federal court circuits, but there's still only nine Supreme Court justices. The argument that, yes, that argument works. The other way to do it is the number nine is not in the Constitution anywhere. We have changed the number of justices on the court many times, including adding justices after Andrew Johnson was impeached but not removed from office. And so, like, you can, like, the number changes all the time. There's nothing dirty pool about it as something unusual or extraordinary.

Just we have not cars that. Congress has the power to do it. They just haven't used that power in a very long time. It's something to say that they can't. But, like, ultimately, I think here is what I would encourage Democrats to do. is to run against this corrupt Supreme Court that is gooded voting rights act, has given power to corporations, as hurt working people, is Phil was doing the bidding of people who financially benefit justices like Clarence Thomas and make the case against it.

And there's a menu of options you can do to reform the court. Expansion is one of them, but it's not the only one. And let's run against that court. Let's make our voters aware of how important it is, particularly for, for the Senate this cycle, like to understand what a role the Supreme Court plays. Because if we take the Senate, Donald Trump will not be able to put a justice on the court for the remainder of his presidency without the sign off of Senate Democrats. And that's a very, very powerful thing.

And then if we're ever in power again, fingers crossed, God willing, we can figure out how to specifically deal with the problems of the Supreme Court. But right now, like, we can't, we can't fix that problem. What we can do is talk about, is trying to win these races we have. We can make the case against Republicans, make the case against Supreme Court, fire up Democrats. Because one thing that does, we've seen this in response to voter suppression before, is trying to take political power away from people. Often has a backlash effect against the people doing the voter suppression,

trying to take the political power away. And we can do that a way to jet up turnout and to ensure that we actually send a message to the public's Supreme Court that they cannot silence our. voices. Yeah. I mean, and we again, like to go back to how we started this conversation, there's no better example of that than literally just erasing, uh, the ability for black and brown Americans to have representation in Congress by eliminating all of these opportunity districts across the entire deep south. I would also just add, you know, yes, we can go back to the 1800s to point out instances where the, the size of the Supreme Court has been, has been changed,

especially for political reasons. But it happened, uh, what, like, like a few years ago, when the Republicans and Mitch McConnell refused to give Merrick Garland a hearing, and the Supreme Court was set at eight justices, and it was supposed to be nine. Mitch McConnell shrunk the court. They shrunk the court in a way to ensure the Republicans had more political power in this country. And had he not done that, then, you know, Roe v. Wade may it still be the law of the land. Yeah. So I want to zoom out a little bit here because as we look at, you know, this is,

this issue being one of many. Like we also have the Iran War. We have, you know, the, the rampant corruption that's taking place. We have the fact that Trump is focused on his ballroom and his walkway to the Oval Office and the Rose Garden being paved over and all of his gold encrusted everything. We have the fact that health care has been gutted, food assistance has been gutted, that prices are rising on everything as the result of these trade wars. There are so many instances where either promises have been broken or this administration is engaging in some behavior or activity that's either illegal or grossly unpopular, we fall into this trap every time Trump is in office where there are a million different directions to look in. And in this mountain

of possible talking points we could use ahead of an election, it feels like there's so many that we get lost in them. And so, you know, there is no better messenger on the left than you. And so as we head toward this midterm cycle, what do you think we should do in terms of picking and choosing between all these things, which, you know, in a normal world, one of them would be enough to sink a candidate or a party, but we have so many that we actually risk getting lost. I think I would take a step back from all of it because too often, I think this has been a real problem with Democratic messaging over the last 10 years. The laundry list?

Yeah, it's a laundry list, but we think you win elections by specific issues, specific slogans, specific incidents. And what it really is is you need a clear, compelling story about why not Trump, why not the Republicans, and why us? And I think the way to do this. And then once you have that sort, and I can talk about what that story is, then all the things that happen on a daily basis, you now have this strategic framework to decide which of those things fit your story. And then you use them as data points to prove the larger story you're telling, not to be individual pieces of evidence in separate cases against Trump. And so the argument here, and I think it's pretty simple in this election, is that Trump ran on lowering prices and making your life better.

And he's doing everything other than that. He is focused on helping himself. He is focused on helping his rich friends. He's focused on helping corporations. He is spending money on ballrooms, wars in the Middle East, on himself. and instead of health care for you, lower prices for you, child care for you, food assistance for people. It is Trump is thinking about himself.

He's not thinking, Trump of the Republicans are thinking about themselves, not thinking about you. Everything that fits under that story. And corruption is, you know, John Osloff has this campaign video he put out last couple of days, which really shows how corruption can be the overall framework for this because all of this is under corruption, right? why aren't you getting health care? Corruption. Why aren't you getting food assistance?

Corruption? Because the people who are getting, who are doing well are the ones who have the most, who need the least and are closest to Trump. So to that end, I want to take this opportunity for folks to know that if you want to read more from Dan, you have to subscribe to Message Box. I do.

I think it was the first newsletter that I ever subscribed to. It is the single smartest analysis that you will find online. So I'm going to put the link to Substack in the post description of this video. But Dan, I want to give you the opportunity to talk about something else you're doing beyond MessageBox that I think is going to be really, really helpful. So a couple of weeks ago, I launched something called MessageBox Pro, which is a subscription consulting service for people who work in politics and communications at any level, right?

People who sign up get weekly strategy memos, polling analysis, message guidance, a community of people to share best practices with, to get my input on your account, campaigns, your initiatives. And I did this because we've been hearing for years from people who listen to Positive America, who maybe read my newsletter to essentially serve as a consultant to their campaign or their organization because they can't afford a pollster, they can't afford a consultant, they're not getting the attention from the national party. And the people who, you know, who are on the front lines who need the most help are getting the least. And so I wanted to try to fill that gap by setting up Messagebox pro, which you can sign up for at messageboxpro.com.

Great. And I'm going to put that link in the post description. as well. If anybody who is working on a campaign or who is connected to a campaign is watching, could not recommend this more highly. To that end, Dan, thanks for the work that you're doing. Thanks for taking the time today. Awesome. Thanks, Brian. It was great to talk to you. No Lie is brought to you by Donors Choose. Teachers are supporting students in their classrooms every day, but how many schools lack the resources to make sure our kids reach their full potential? And look, I have many teachers in my family, including my grandma who taught for about 50 years. I myself taught for two years after college.

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Bobby, I wanted to talk to you today because we have just seen the Supreme Court gut the Voting Rights Act. obviously in the immediate aftermath of that move, we saw a cavalcade of deep south red states begin the process of redrawing their maps. And I presume that the end result of this is going to be that every black district in the deep south will ultimately be eliminated. And so that raises the importance of making sure that Democrats can actually fight back, given the fact that this is already happening. Whether or not Democrats respond, this is already happening.

And in your state of Maryland, there is the opportunity to redraw the maps. And yet there's one person standing in the way of all of that. And that's the state Senate president, Bill Ferguson, who you're running against. And so I want to ask first and foremost, has this Supreme Court decision and the subsequent moves by all these Republican states, Louisiana, Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina, has that moved Bill Ferguson at all? No, I have to be honest, I don't think it has. although so many folks here in Maryland are calling on the governor and both the Speaker of the House and the Senate president, who Bill Ferguson is, to call for a special session to actually get redistricting across the line. I mean, in the end of the day, if you look at South Carolina, they're going to redistrict one seat.

North Carolina already redistricted one seat. I mean, this is basically a tactical defense of democracy for Maryland to to follow suit in protecting American freedoms. What a lot of people don't realize is what the game here is. The game is this, and it's Project 2025. And I've spoken about this before. We have seen what Project 2025 has done so far. We've seen armed police in our streets,

terrorizing our neighbors, killing American citizens. We've seen the federal government just gutted. We've seen money taken away from the Department of Education. We've seen witch hunts against the press. and Trump's political opponents. In the end, this redistricting thing, which was started by Texas, let's remember Texas started this, it's literally a power grab. It's a power grab for a president who was literally putting his face on everything he can

possibly touch to include a passport. We have never been in this situation in the history of this country. And redistricting, while in a perfect world, it would be good to have an independent redistricting commission for the entire country. for each state, we do not live in a perfect world, nor do we live in ordinary times. And extraordinary times require extraordinary measures. And while every other state is redistricting, so they can take away reproductive rights from women to privatize Social Security, so working people won't have a nest egg when we retire,

to define marriage as one man and one woman, while every red state is redistricting to give this president that power. the Senate president of Maryland, a Democrat, well, he just didn't understand the assignment, I guess. And so there has been no movement here, even in light of the fact that, frankly, it's not that this is just the morally right thing to do. This is actually existential for Democrats right here, because what Republicans want is to engineer themselves permanent majorities

by not only gerrymandering, but gerrymandering knowing full well that there's going to be Democrats who rely on this kind of archaic idea of good government, of just good governmenting ourselves into obscurity because, God forbid, we don't always take the high road, even as Republicans are basically just running roughshod over the left. You know, and I agree with you. I agree with you, Brian. But to be honest with you, I don't honestly believe this is a Democrat versus Republican issue. And here's why I say that. I believe this is really a battle for the soul of our nation.

It really is a battle for the freedoms and the liberties that for decades and decades, civil rights organizations, women's rights organizations, LBGTQ organizations have a fault for. This is literally we're fighting for that. And I believe the reason why the Republicans are so apt to follow this strong man in the White House is because here is a person who has made the wealthy, more wealthy than they've ever been in the history. of this country. And for him to lose power, for the Democrats to have power, we would fight to end that wealth. So in the end of the day, I think this is really a fight between the haves and the have-nots, a fight for the soul of this country. And that power, the power, whoever has power

in Congress, is so very important to fight this person who is the cause of the rise of authoritarianism in this country, the rise of white nationalism in this country. Literally, we are, losing America. The very little bit of America that's good, we are losing it. And every state, regardless of party, should fight to protect that. Bobby, we have been talking a lot about not just fighters versus those who decide to run, not just kind of like the old guard versus the new, but the establishment versus like these these grassroots populist upstarts. And that's exactly what this campaign is. And so I'm curious, as you run against, you know, this is not just any, any state senator. This is the president of the state Senate. I'm sure if ever there was a

machine behind somebody, it's probably behind Bill Ferguson. A lot of machines. What is it like to run against the state Senate president as someone who, you know, you're a regular guy. Like, you, you haven't run for political office before. And so what has been thrown at you from Bill Ferguson. Well, I think every working person out there will understand this when I say I feel like I'm being beat down every single day from every single direction. You know, I have corporations who are just funneling money into his campaign so he wins. The establishment has circled the wagons to make sure that he wins and keeps power in the state Senate. We have randomly, we have Republican dark money that is flowing in from some pollster in Florida that we can't seem to track down,

putting out push polls, saying that Bill Ferguson is the greatest thing since sliced bread and calling me a criminal, a communist Chinese sympathizer, a former chair of an extremist anti-abortion organization, of which I am the pro-choice. I've been endorsed. I am the pro-choice candidate in this race. it just feels like every single day, the powers that be are trying to beat us down in this campaign. But what's amazing about people power is that the people can see through that. When people have taken this survey, whether on the phone or it was via text, they've come up to us, they've emailed us, they've seen me on the street because I'm always out here.

Obviously, I'm out here right now today and said, man, you won't believe the survey I just got from Bill Ferguson. and what it really didn't make me angry. And this is what people are tired of in America, you know. We're tired of politicians saying one thing and doing another. We're tired of politicians that go in office simply to serve the rich. Bill Ferguson, right now in Maryland, we are facing rising utility costs, which is probably most of America. I'm already because of Donald Trump, we're facing rising fuel costs and rising grocery costs.

And for years and years and years of all these costs have risen, Bill Ferguson, taking tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from corporations while doing little to nothing to protect, you know, working people in this state. And redistricting is yet another example of that. He drug his feet on protecting the reproductive rights of women when literally the national organization of women came to him and said, look, Roe v. Wade is going to be overturned. The state of Maryland needs a constitutional amendment to protect our rights, and he dragged his feet. Roe v. Wade was overturned, and the women in the state went almost an entire year without protections. He drugged his feet on protecting our neighbors from ICE and from the terrorizing of our streets.

For five years, more than 130 civil rights organizations have been asking him to pass the Community Trust Act, which would cut any relationship or cooperation between Maryland, law enforcement, and ICE. And he drugged his feet until this year when he has a challenger. And redistricting is yet another thing where he drugged his feet. And now when for months I've been begging him to do it, for months, people have been begging him to do it. For months, we've warned him, Bill Ferguson, if you do not redistrict, voting rights could be crippled by the Supreme Court. And people will be left defenseless. And it happened.

And here we are. I just got out of a press conference earlier this morning where I was calling again for a special session. So we can not just protect the people of Maryland, but protect every American in this country. country. We are a United States of America. And in a perfect world, like I said, we would have independent redistricting commissions. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to be fighting ice in our streets. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have military occupying American cities. I mean, heck, in a perfect world, the Orioles would go to the World Series. But we do not live in a perfect world. We live in a reality, in a reality where if we do not act, fundamental civil liberties

could just be erased in this country. And that's not what I fought for as a soldier. That's not what I fought for as an activist. That's not why I'm running this race to protect those freedoms and to protect my neighbors. And I have no clue what the hell Bill Ferguson is doing because he's definitely not doing that. Bobby, Bill Ferguson aside,

what is your priority? What do you want to see different that isn't happening right now that would be your priority if you were to win this race? Man, just like every other American out there, get the corporate money out of politics. Can we please just for once have elected officials that just answer to the people and not answer to the corporations, have elected people that actually make choices that support small businesses, that support families, that support those who are struggling?

Like, there is a dream in America, right? This American dream where everyone can own a home and they can work hard and they can, you know, raise a family. and be safe in their possessions and their person, the dream is gone. I mean, I'm sure everyone watching this feels that way too. We might look back in the past or when we talk to our parents or grandparents about what America was. Look, we have never been perfect, but this dream that we all share of the greatness America can be when we start treating people with equality, when we start treating workers with

dignity when we start taxing the rich properly so we can fix our potholes, fix our schools, lower our bills, lower, you know, fuel prices. You know, as a veteran, looking at just the war in Iran right now, it's yet another example where poor kids are being sent off to a foreign country to kill other poor kids. We have poor kids in our own country in my city of Baltimore that we need to take care of. And that's what I think I truly want. That's what I'm fighting for. a legislature, the politicians to actually be responsive to the people, not to the corporations or to the special interests or all those who for too long have held a boot on the neck of working people. I, you know, to bring up a quote, I am just sick and tired of being sick and tired.

And I think that most Americans feel the same way. We obviously are seeing a lot of races come to the forefront. Everyone's got limited resources. Everybody's asking for money. Talk about what a dollar gets you in in the the state senate district 4046 that's different from these larger national races these gubernatorial races whatever it may be well i mean if redistricting is any sign um all politics is local you know um the person that has the most impact on your life is your city council person or your state senator or state delegate i mean i'm up against a guy that has almost two million dollars in his bank account, unlimited amount of money. He could spend up to $1,000 per vote to beat me, the working person, to quiet our voice. I could maybe spend three bucks a vote,

you know, with yard signs and mailers and so on and so forth. When I started this race, I promised I would never take corporate money because I believe in that. I believe it's almost impossible to overturn Citizens United. So we just need to have people that, you know, stand up and say, well, I'm not going to take corporate money. I'm only going to answer to the people. And that puts me at a deficit, not just at a deficit against fighting the machine, but at a deficit of how I can raise money.

Most of my campaign contributions, the over 4,000 individual contributions that we've had have come from working people across Baltimore, across Maryland, across this country. Our average donation size, I believe, is $26.80. My opponent's average donation size is more than $1,300. We're proving something here. This isn't just a race between Bobby Lippin and Bill Ferguson.

This is the same type of race that Zoran ran in New York. This is the same type of race that Graham is running in Maine. This is the people standing up saying, we demand our voice to be heard, and we're not going to take it anymore. I fear if I lose this race, obviously redistricting one happened in Maryland. they'll be more of the same. And working people are kind of used to more of the same. We're used to being on the losing end of the battle.

We're used to the powerful always trying to squeeze us as hard as they can. But if we win, which it looks like we have a real possibility of doing, it's the same movement that is happening all across America. We're holding those in power accountable, and we hold those who are wealthy. who have been beating us down all the time. We're holding them accountable to and you're going to make them pay up.

I can't tell you how important it is just for this race that that happens because it sends a message not only to the people in Baltimore or the people in Maryland, but across this country. I mean, this has become a national race simply because of redistricting. Because I'm going against the most powerful politician in Maryland for all of his sins and all of his faults.

and, you know, when people ask me, just real quick, what's the difference between you and Bill Ferguson? And I say, well, have you ever heard of Chuck Schumer? And they'll say, oh, yeah, of course. I'm like, well, you know, he's Chuck Schumer and I'm Bernie Sanders. And that pretty much is the reality of the case. You know, I am a veteran, a former firefighter, a former schoolteacher, going door to door, thousands of doors I knocked on all the community events. and I'm running against a guy that writes strongly worded letters to a dictate. Yeah.

I mean, nothing is going to change if we don't change ourselves. No one is coming to help us, but the good thing about that is that there's no one standing in our way. If we really want to prove that working people matter, if we really want to prove that our voice matters, we're going to win this race. And I'm hoping folks out there, if you believe it too, chip in some money because obviously I'm going against a Goliath and I'm a David with a slingshot and I need more rocks. Bobby, what website can people go to to donate?

Makegoodchange.com. Make goodchange.com. If everybody, if a thousand people on this, I mean, all the people that watch this, and this is a real, this is not just, hey, I need money, I have a deadline. I'm telling you this is real. We need to raise another $85,000 between now and two weeks, $85,000. And if everyone on here just goes and chips in $25, $27, whatever they can, we can win this. And we can show the powerful that their days are numbered.

Well, look, I don't speak with many state legislative candidates just because of the sheer number of candidates who are running across the country. But Bobby, I believe deeply in your campaign. I believe in you as a candidate. Highly, highly, highly recommend for anybody looking to donate to contribute to a campaign. I'm telling you your dollar goes far in a state legislative race like this. And it will have a huge impact because there is one person in a democratic state that is standing in the way of redistricting. And that could be the difference between a Democratic Speaker of the House and Mike Johnson as Speaker of the House.

So this race matters a ton. And so I'm going to put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description if you're watching on video. if you're listening on the podcast, I'm going to throw it in the show notes. And again, highly recommend that everybody who's watching right now contribute what they can to this campaign. Bobby, as always, best luck in the campaign trail. Thanks for taking the time today. Hey, Brian, thank you.

Thanks for all that you do. And to everyone out there, don't lose hope. Remember, we're in this together, and we can win. Thanks again to Rokana, Dan Pfeiffer, and Bobby Lepin. That's it for this episode. Talk to you on Sunday. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie,

and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating in a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to bryantarcoen.com to learn more.