On Purpose with Jay Shetty - 2 Ways to Deepen Your Connection with Your Partner & The Key to Strong and Lasting Relationships

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Today, I talk to John and Julie Gottman to discuss how to strengthen relationships. Dr. Julie and John share their thoughts on why we should stop being the person who we think our partners like and start being our genuine selves, what can we do to build and/or improve intimacy with our partner, and how to deal with the changes you and your partner go through without losing the connection and stay committed to each other.  Dr. Julie Schwartz Gottman is a co-founder and President of The Gottman Institute and co-founder of Affective Software, Inc. with her husband John Gottman. For over 40 years they have devoted their life to the research and practice of fostering healthy, long-lasting relationships through the training of clinicians and the creation of transformative products for couples around the world.  You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon. What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 02:08 What qualities should we focus on when we start dating a person? 05:25 We are always molding ourselves in accordance to someone else’s preferences 11:09 The role of self-esteem and self awareness in healthy relationships 16:57 What happens when we limit ourselves in meeting people online 24:45 Why asking a ‘big’ question is important in building intimacy? 28:27 How do you deal with your partner and the constant changes they go through? 33:36 Finding new ways to stay connected with your partner 38:58 This is why you need to focus more on the positive aspects of your relationship 42:57 Expressing gratitude and explaining why you’re thankful ads more depth to the moment 50:00 Is there a way to know if a relationship can last?    Episode Resources The Gottman Institute The Gottman Institute | Facebook The Gottman Institute | Instagram The Gottman Institute | YouTube The Gottman Institute | Twitter The Gottman Institute | Books Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When my daughter ran off to hop trains, I was terrified I'd never see her again, so I followed her into the train yard. This is what it sounds like inside the box-top. And into the city of the rails, there I found a surprising world, so brutal and beautiful that it changed me. But the rails do that to everyone. There is another world out there, and if you want to play with the devil, you're going to find them down in the rail yard. Undenail Morton. Come with me to find out what waits for us and the city of the rails.

Listen to City of the Rails on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Or cityoftherails.com. Hey, it's Debbie Brown. Host of the Deeply Well podcast, where we hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your wellbeing journey. Deeply well is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be.

Deeply well with Debbie Brown is available now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Namaste. I'm Jay Shetty, and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Louis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw, real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that

they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. Before this relationship, try to remember a time when you were really happy. When you were feeling really fulfilled. What were you doing at that time? What were you thinking about?

What were you reading about? What were you feeling? The best-selling author and host? The number one health and wellness podcast. On purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow.

Thank you so much to all of you that are investing so deeply in your mental, physical, financial, emotional and spiritual health by joining in and tuning in to our conversations here on on purpose. I'm so excited because we're going to be adding a really special offering onto the back of my solo episodes on Fridays. The Daily J is a daily series on calm and it's meant to inspire you while outlining tools

and techniques to live a more mindful, stress-free life. We dive into a range of topics and the best part is, each episode is only 7 minutes long, so you can incorporate it into your schedule, no matter how busy you are. As a dedicated part of the on-purpose community, I wanted to do something special for you this year, so I'll be playing a hand-picked daily J during each of my Friday podcasts. This week we're talking about your relationships and how to create the most meaningful connections with the people that matter to you. Of course, if you want to listen to the daily J every day, you can go subscribe to Calm.

So go to Calm.com forward slash J for 40% off your membership today. And today we have guests who've been on before. There's only a few of them that have been on the show twice. And these are some of my favorites. Today's guests are none other than Dr. John and Julie Gottman. The governments of the nation's leading marriage researchers and educators. John and Julie Gottman are the renowned experts on marital stability, says the Atlantic. The Einstein of Love says psychology today and the Dean of Marriage Expert says the New York times. Today we're talking about their new book, Seven Days to More Intimacy, Connection and Joy, the Love Prescription. This is the book. We're going to put the book,

link in the captions and comments so you can go and grab your copy. John and Julie, it's so wonderful to see you. Thank you for making the time. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to sit down with you again. I'm really excited. Jay, you know, you should know that it's always an honor to be on your show and to be connected with your guests. So thank you so much for the opportunity. Yeah, I agree. Well, thank you both so much. I wanna dive in because whenever I see one of your studies published or a journal

or a new book, come out, I get very excited because you truly have just studied so many interesting, fascinating parts of relationships. And I guess the first question I wanna dive into straight away is when you're dating someone, what quality do you value? Or what quality should we be looking for when we first start that process?

Because I feel like one of the most challenging things right now is we all have different things we're attracted to because of how we were raised, what movies we saw, what perceptions we have about what is attractive, what is male, what is female, what is beyond gender, right? Like we all have certain perceptions and misconceptions. What are some of the values and qualities we should be looking for when we're dating someone, or when we're even looking for someone. So I think the very first thing you should look for is kindness and not only kindness towards

you, but kindness towards the people, for example, who bring you your food, who bring you your drinks, who bring you your car, the people that are all around you supporting that date that you're having with this new person, do they treat everyone with kindness? That's a marker of that person being respectful towards others and not being too class, not being racist, but being somebody who treats people with care and respect. So kindness is one. I think another is reliability. So does your dating partner actually show up when they say they're going to show up?

That's very important. Or are they always late and then they're making an excuse for being late? Maybe they don't even apologize. That's not a good sign. So reliability, they are who they say they are, they'll be where they say they'll be is very important too. One of the things that really impressed me about my son-in-law was that my daughter was completely herself with him. So, it's a little bit different than what quality did he have, but it was that she was really herself. There was no part of her that was being stifled.

She had a boyfriend who didn't want her to sing, and she's a natural singer. She's a jazz singer. And my son and I just loved her singing, loved her being silly, loved her, being tired and crabby. She was completely herself. And I think it's an important thing if you can be completely yourself and feel accepted by this person.

Those of us such great answers, and John, I love that thought the idea that it's not a quality that someone else has, it's that they allow you to be all of your qualities, and they don't dampen or hamper any of those. I think one thing you touched on there, which really got me curious and intrigued is, I think more and more today, people

have been in relationships where they feel stifled or they feel controlled or they feel manipulated or they feel like their light had to be dampened. I think I speak to a lot of people. I'm sure you've spoken to, you know, God knows how many people over the years that have felt that way. Why is it, do you think, that it takes us so long to notice that sometimes? Sometimes we become so intoxicated

and enamored by another person, that until we actually leave or we get the courage to break up, when it happens, we think, oh my gosh, I just realized, I've been manipulated for my gosh, I just realized they've been manipulated for three years. I just realized I was controlled for three years, but we accept it, we tolerate it. Why do we allow that to happen to ourselves? And why do we also follow up question to that? Why do we allow it to happen to our friends and family members and people around us

when we can see it, but we're scared of telling them? First of all, nobody grows up without catching some baggage along the way. That baggage leaves us feeling insecure, feeling badly about certain qualities that we may have. And so when we first start dating, we try to be the best version of ourself that we can be. That's number one. Number two is that as we get to know this other person a little bit, what happens is that we start to psych out. Who do they want us to be?

Do they want us to accentuate our being athletic, but downplay our being intellectual? What fits who they are and we try to mold ourselves into this jigsaw puzzle piece that isn't being true to ourselves. And a lot of us have the experiences children of doing exactly the same thing. We realized that perhaps our father really didn't like it when we outmaneuvered him in a political debate. So we tamp it down, or our mother didn't like it when we dressed like an athlete instead

of like a very feminine stereotype. So who are we? As little kids, we figure out you only get approval for fitting somebody else's notion of who you should be. Then if we don't work through that, we don't process that and we don't acknowledge that who we are is absolutely perfect in every way, even though we have our strengths and we have our challenges, we go into a dating

situation where again, we're trying to mold ourselves. It's that same process of trying to figure out what's wanted of us and molding ourselves to that. Also, Jay, we live in a very critical culture. So at jobs, we are rated on a totem pole. Where do we fit higher low on the totem pole? Same thing in classrooms. Our own individual passions may not be honored. It's only how well do we memorize the capitals of states, right?

So we're always having to mold ourselves to fit somebody else's standards. And we have to work through the fact that all those others out there had very distorted mirrors of who we were and what was beautiful about each one of us. What we have to do is create our own mirror that, yes, of course, it will see the cracks, it will see the flaws, it will see the weaknesses or challenges that we need to continue to work on. Like mine is in patience, one of the most inpatient people I know. So I always have to work on that.

Always, you know, five steps ahead of where somebody needs to be. So I have to work on that. But at the same time, I can understand that a lot of things that I am that may have threatened of my parents are things that are actually strengths that are beautiful about who I am. Each one of your audience and everyone else has strengths, they have challenges. The work is to see your strengths without the distortions of everyone else's mirrors of you. That's a beautiful response and you're so right that so many of the things that

distort us gifts or gaps that we received from our parents where we you know are functioning differently based on how we were loved and how we were shown love and what's really interesting about that journey, and I'm focusing on that feeling stifled and restricted because I think it's just such a big theme and such an important thing that you raised. When someone comes out of that, when someone finally breaks through a relationship where they were feeling stifled, where they were feeling controlled. They can feel extremely lost in who they are and they can become confused about their

identity and about their value. And often people will say, well, I just doubt myself now because I was doubted or I have lost my self esteem. What are some of the building blocks you think and what is the importance of self awareness and self esteem? I mean, Julie, you just said it right now. You said, Hey, I know that I'm impatient and that's something I'm always working on, which means you have self awareness and you can still have positive self-esteem because you know it's something you're building on or working on. What role does self-esteem and self-awareness have in healthy relationships and how does

one redevelop them after a painful experience? Well, I love that question, Jay, because every single day I see clients who are in exactly the kind of pain you're describing, where they've come out of a painful, painful relationship where they were treated badly disrespectfully, they've been devalued, or they've felt invisible, unimportant. And they are lost because they've tried so hard to mold themselves into a paper doll that they've lost track of who the real person is behind the mask that they've displayed. So the building block of change is first of all seeking people and more connection with those people that you actually really trust, who care about you, who see the beauty in your heart, in your soul, and talking to them about your experience, asking them what was their perception of what was going on in the relationship. Does it make sense to them that they were being controlled or being

manipulated? Can they help you with their own objective eyes? understand what process you were involved in. Now that may be a friend, that may be a sibling or a relative, it may be a therapist or a healer, but somebody that you can trust who reflects, first of all, more accurately what was going on for you and who you really are. Then what you need to do is follow your own passions. At first it's really difficult to figure that out. What are my passions? I don't know anymore. So you go back to before this relationship, try to remember a time when you were really happy and you were feeling really fulfilled. What were you doing at that time? What were you thinking about? What were you

reading about? What were you feeling? So I have a client, for example, who was really controlled and manipulated by her partner and then her partner betrayed her and left her. So now she's very lost trying to figure out who she is. So we listed a whole list of potential passions and had her close her eyes and reflect on, okay, each one of those, how do they resonate with you, how do they resonate?" And she generated this very short list of things she loved about herself and she loved doing. There was sailing. There was learning about music and playing guitar. There was going swimming with her children, swimming in particular was something that she really, really loved to do. So seek out that passion, pull the thread, see what's at the end of it, and then expand that passion into something that becomes a regular part of your life. and not only that, but most passions include the participation

of other people. So if you connect with other people that share that passion with you, you then begin to feel like, ah, this part of myself that I've shut down, that I'm now recapturing is something other people love too. Hooray. And you go out to live those parts of you that you split off, but now you're reconnecting with. That's a brilliant answer. You've given us so many practical things that we can do there when we're in that position.

And they all feel really tough and difficult in the moment for sure, but they're tried and tested. They work, They make sense. They align and, you know, anyone who's listening or watching right now has been in that scenario, recognizing what Julie was saying. Like, there was a you before this relationship and there will be you after this relationship. And the you that got lost during the relationship is the one you're trying to reawaken, rediscover and give an opportunity to rise for. So I think that recognition that you may have lost connection

with who you are, but you are not lost to you are not non existent, which a lot of people can actually end up feeling. If we move forward into we started with dating and then we went backwards into breakups and I'm kind of going back into dating again. But I think one of the biggest challenges today is the paradox of choice, right? Today there is more choice, there are more options, there is a quicker ability to say yes or no to someone on a dating app. You're not meeting people within a one mile radius or five mile radius of where you grew up. You're meeting people online through a picture.

You don't know their family. You don't know what school they went to. You don't know many of their friends. So the way we meet people today has drastically shifted in the last 10 to 20 years alone, what to speak of over time. And on top of that, there's this feeling that people have of like, well, if I'm not with someone who's perfect, well, then I can just drop them and find someone else because there's so many people out there.

So tell me about what you've noticed with the paradox of choice. And what can we do in our dating life to actually learn quicker and faster whether someone's right for us or not? What does that really mean? Let me say something about what modern researchers found in selecting somebody. It turns out that really nobody has been able to find anything to measure that determines whether you like somebody.

So you can ask people, even what are they looking for in a partner and to list all the qualities. And then you can select for those qualities and that person is unlikely to even like that person. So I get my answer to that is to find somebody you can trust. And trust is very different for everybody, but it's somebody you feel safe with. Somebody really makes you feel accepted as you are. And our best index for trust is to pick somebody who is able to think for two, not just for themselves, but can think about what benefits both partners and that person winds up being very trustworthy.

When we talk about choices of dating, part of the problem is that everybody is on the internet trying to find a match. But because basically the internet is black and white text, it gives people only a tiny little sliver, one dimension of who somebody is. You know, that's always a problem in my head. Because people will describe themselves in a way that doesn't include how they smell, what they really look like, what their history is, who they really are. So you're not going to find the perfect partner. What John was saying about find somebody that you can trust

in my world. What that means is somebody who makes you feel good about yourself. So one of the questions you need to ask is how do you feel about yourself when you're actually face to face with this person. So, you know, find, go out and look on the internet, see who appeals to you through the internet. But try to meet up with them, have coffee, you know, for 30 minutes, talk to them, see how many questions they ask you. And how do they respond to your answers? Did they just change the subject? Are they looking over your shoulder at somebody cute who's sitting at the back of the room? How are they responding? Or are they really focused on you and making you feel like not? That person seems to really get what I'm saying. They're understanding. They're responding not by interrupting me

and talking over me, but by really wanting to even hear more. And gee, I want to hear more about them. How self-disclosing are they? Are they self-disclosing appropriately, not oversharing every personal detail, but letting me know the basics of who they are, so that I can respond to them and slowly get to know them.

So, you know, I'm afraid all of we-internet users, when we limit ourselves to looking for somebody on the internet, we're really making a mistake. We've got to meet up with people face to face, see how we feel being with them, and how they feel being with us. Yeah, I think one of the greatest notes that I liked out of that from both of you was, I think trust is one of these things that just takes forever to build and you know, you hear about people who they've been with someone for 25 years and they feel they trusted each other and then the person after 25 years goes, I don't love you anymore. And then you know, you're dealing with that. And so the thing that really resonated with me was the idea

of safety. Like do you feel safe when you're with someone? I think that's a very current, immediate way of building trust. Because trust is this big thing, takes a lot of time, a lot of building blocks, so many other things. But do I feel safe with this person? Is something you can ask yourself right now? And you can know whether you feel safe around someone emotionally, whether you feel safer on someone physically,

or whether you feel fearful, or whether you feel unsafe, or whether you feel safe around someone emotionally, whether you feel safe around someone physically, or whether you feel fearful, or whether you feel unsafe, or whether you feel threatened, or whether you feel intimidated. And I think that's a really great question that people can ask themselves in the moment in a day. And of course, the insight of getting as quick as possible to meeting someone in person

is the only way that you can really start making better decisions in dating and dealing better with choice. and knowing that the research shows that there is no perfect thing to look for in perfect partner. I mean, that's very freeing. I'm hoping people hear that and go, oh, I get it. Like, there isn't just the perfect thing to look for. And there isn't a perfect formula and there isn't a perfect recipe, which means I'm going

to work with a lot of ingredients that don't make sense. And there are going to be things that are contradictory and there are going to be things that don't perfectly align. And that's okay, that's what the research shows, right? So I think that's a healthy way of approaching. I think the challenge I've seen is we're so focused on finding the perfect person that we don't create a process of creating something meaningful with the person we're with. And so we keep finding perfect, chasing perfect, chasing perfect, pursuing perfection, not thinking, oh, I can actually create, make and build something pretty good if I direct my energy this way. Let's dive into a few of the questions that you ask in the book.

So we talk about the seven days to more intimacy, connection, and joy. And I think one of the things you talk about that I love in this book is about asking big questions. And the reason why I like this idea of when you're in a relationship, how do you increase intimacy is that we've been wearing how long we've been in a relationship as a badge of honor, right? We look at the amount of time someone's been with someone as the success of a relationship. And we know that that's not factually true, whether it's a job, a relationship, a home. You could live in a home for 30 years and hate it every day. You could work a job the same day, same job every day in

your life for 50 years and hate your job or you could be with someone for a long, long time and not really enjoy their company. And I think what I've noticed is that the reason that happens is we think when we get married to someone or we move in with someone or in a committed relationship with someone, you almost have this little voice in your head that says, you already know them. That we wait till we know someone to make commitments. And now that we know them, there's almost unconsciously nothing left to know. There's nothing left to discover.

And so when you talk about these incredible ideas that you're sharing in this book, the reason why I really like them is this idea that you can always learn something new about someone that you've known a long time. So someone who's old in your life, there's still something always new to learn about them. And one of the ways you say is by asking a big question, can you describe what a big question is and why it's a great way of building intimacy. A good way to learn about a place is to talk to the people that live there. There's just this sexy vibe and Montreal, this pulse, this energy.

What was seen as a very snotty city. People call it Bozangilus. New Orleans is a town that never forgets its pay. A great way to get to know a place is to get invited to a dinner party. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Newdham, and not lost as my new travel podcast where a friend and I go places, see the sights,

and try to finagle our way into a dinner party where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out. I would love that, but I have like a Chihuahua who is aggressive towards strangers. I love the dogs. We learn about the places we're visiting, yes, but we also learn about ourselves. I don't spend as much time thinking about how I'm going to die alone when I'm traveling. But I get to travel with someone I love.

Oh, see, I love you too. And also, we get to travel with someone I love. Oh see we love I love you too. And also we could eat as much as we can. I love you too. My life's a lot of therapy goes behind that. You're so white I love it. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet we're constantly discovering new secrets. The depths of them, the variety of them, continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you,

stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. When I realized this is not just happening to me, this is who and what I am. I needed her to help me. Something was annoying at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt somehow that there was a piece missing. Why not restart?

Look at all the things that were going wrong. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1680s, a feisty opera singer burned down a nunnery and stole away with her secret lover. a feisty oppressing or burned down an unnery and stole away with her secret lover. In 1810, a pirate queen negotiated her cruiseway to total freedom with all their loot. During World War II, a flirtatious gambling double agent helped keep D-Day a secret from the Germans.

What are these stories having common? They're all about real women who were left out of your history books. If you're tired of missing out, check out the Womanica podcast, a daily women's history podcast highlighting women you may not have heard of, but definitely should know about. I'm your host, Jenny Kaplan, and for me, diving into these stories is the best part of my day. I learned something new about women from around the world and leaf-healing amazed, inspired, and sometimes shocked. Listen on the I Heart

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So a big question is a question that has a long answer. It doesn't have a yes or no answer. My favorite color is purple in a one word answer. It has a much bigger answer. Like what are you thinking about death and dying these days? You know you just turned 85. What are you thinking about it? What do you think about who you want our children to be? Especially growing up in this world where so many things really need to change drastically, quickly. Who do you want our child to be? So they have big answers to them, these questions.

One of the reasons that these questions are so important to keep asking is the following. We are not static. We are not like, you know, the fireplace in your home that never changes, that has the same form, the same bricks, the same wood, you know, that'll burn, replace it with a little warm wood. It's not the same fixture. We are not a fixed entity. We are constantly evolving. We are changing. We are moving forward. And we are being impacted by our world to shift our beliefs, our thoughts, our feelings about things, our hope or our hopelessness, we're changing all the time. So if we don't continue to ask those questions, then we may have a picture of our partner in our minds that's obsolete, that's 10 years old, and that person has been replaced by somebody totally different, but we won't know it.

So, the big questions keep us connected with this beautiful changing form. We are like the C.J. The C is never the same, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. The C is always changing color, wave forms, smoothness versus turmoil. It's always changing. Well, so are human beings. Inside of us, we have the C that's being influenced by all the powers and forces in our world. So how does that change us and our partner? And how can we stay attuned to each other? The big questions are the way to do that, to address who are you here and now today?

How have you changed? That's really special and I love the analogy of the sea and I feel like when you were saying that with the ocean, what I was thinking is that often a lot of us subconsciously are either scared of asking that question or we don't ask that question because we're fearful that someone may change in a way we don't like. And that's often what makes relationships so difficult is that two people, two oceans, as you beautifully described, are always changing. And then someone changes in a way that you don't like anymore and you go, well, I don't

like that. And when I ask you about it and now you start telling me about this new thing that you're into or whatever it may be. I don't vibe with that. That's not something I resonate with. How do we continue to build loving relationships with people we've committed to, people that we feel like is going somewhere, but then they get into something, whether it's like you said, it could be pain that changes who they are or something that brings them joy

that changes who they are, but that brings them joy that changes who they are but we don't quite like it we don't enjoy how it's changed them how do you deal with that I have a great example of this actually okay so I'm one of those people that looks at a piece of bread and games five pounds. That's why I can look at a slice of cake and be twice the width the next week. So I have to be really careful about what I consume and consuming carbs and so on is not necessarily a great choice for me. Okay, so what is my precious beautiful husband get into? Bread baking. This is a new passion that he has and he's got you know a pizza stone and he got the little like

curving baking pan for making multiple bad cats like I could eat three bad cats in one sitting so you know, he's going into a passion and he's baking bread, you know, whenever he has spare time. So is that my favorite passion for my husband to be baking bread that I can look at and, you know, expand myself in the wrong ways with it? Probably not. But the thing I have to do is to understand by asking more questions, why this? What is it about this particular passion, like it's Arling, that you really love doing? What part of you is this fulfilling, other than, you know, you're tummy. What part of you was this fulfilling?

Other than, you know, you're tummy. What part of this are you loving? You know, help me understand this, gosh, he's so cute. And so I want to understand him. This may not be the favorite evolution of mine that he's going through, But because I love him, because love means accepting everything about your partner, even the things that are challenging for you, I want to get to know this part of him too. Even if it's something that doesn't fit with man, who says, I'm the center of the universe and everything has to revolve around my life and dislikes. I'm not. So I want to remember her is to learn to be a baker

of V&E's pastry. And that's where I'm going. Oh my God, we're headed to V&E's pastry. Jay, can I move into your house? I bet you have really healthy ears. I think you have really long been used. No, and thank you, John, for sharing that insight about why you've got into baking. I mean, that, you know, when you hear it from that perspective, you're like, wow, that is, wow, that, you know, I can only understand how meaningful baking is to you. So what a beautiful, you know, description to share that. And, and Julie, I thought that was a great example because it's the same with, with me and my wife, like, so I'm someone who's very certain about my passions,

my purpose, my, you know, what I, what I'm doing on this planet and what I care about. And I've developed that over time. It's not that I just stumbled upon it yesterday and it's always evolving and growing. And of course, it changes and moves. And my wife, someone who is very talented and gifted, but she's often trying to figure more out. And she's more open to this fluid version of herself and discovery. She's in a space of discovery. And so when you have certainty and discovery,

And so when you have certainty and discovery, it's very important that there's massive flexibility and adapting in both people. It's not just me to her or her to me. It's both, right? It's what I'm hearing you say. It's like she has to be adaptable to the fact that she is married to someone who's super certain about what they want in life. And I have to be open to the fact that I'm with someone who enjoys a lot of different things and figuring it out and being in discovery mode. And that encourages me if I see it that way, to spend more time in discovery. And me being this way encourages

her to spend more time in certainty or discovering things that are more certain. But that requires a lot of flexibility and adaptability and maturity to be able to do it in a more certain. But that requires a lot of flexibility and adaptability and maturity to be able to do it in a healthy way. And that's hard. It is hard work, right? This is not easy to do. It is challenging. It is difficult.

It can be painful. How do we build that flexibility? Because I feel that most people I speak to today, there's a lot of like well this is the way I am and this is what I want and this is not what you're providing me right especially when it gets to bigger things then what we're talking about so how do we develop that flexibility and adaptability because I think people have very clear plans or parts of how they want their life to go and your partner kind of changing tack to a changing track and maybe of, you know, derail you sometimes. Right, you know, I think it

goes back to John what you were seeing earlier, which was you have to think for two. You have to You have to think for two. You have to think about, you know, if you really love this person, what is going to benefit them? And how far can I stretch myself outside my own ego, my own way of doing things, my own rigid path? How far can I stretch myself beyond my own rigidity to adapt to my partner's path and can we talk through the differences between us, the new path that my

partner may be following, and find some in between. I'm thinking about an interesting example of somebody who was married and had had a fairly kind of athe quests and those brought him to a very different place than they had been to get there philosophically in terms of more of an atheistic set of beliefs. And fourth thing, I mean, she had a heck of a time. She did not know how to accept this aspect that her partner was evolving into. And she felt abandoned by his journey. So what was really necessary was to establish that her journey, even if it maintained an atheistic framework, was still a value, was still important, that he was He was very happy to continue to support that belief system and that it wasn't an abandonment of her to go into a spiritual journey himself.

It was a pathway leading to a deeper part of himself. It wasn't about her. And in fact, what he could do is why his new spiritual perception to understanding who she was, you know, from a very different place than he had before. Understand from a spiritual perspective, why she made the choices she did, who she was, and both could be embraced within a sphere of love. There was no abandonment, the love to grow, because each panel gifted the relationship with different new but very beautiful ways to still stay connected. Staying curious about your partner has your partner of changes. And that's what I'm saying that I think people are scared of that curiosity because it may lead to something they don't want to discover because it can be so emotionally destabilizing

personally. But I think you're right, Julie. I appreciate that response because the Understanding is the only thing that's going to help in that moment. Like, you know, and what the thing that stood out the most was you said You know, realizing that it's not a journey you have to go on, right? Like it's it's not a joint journey if someone needs to go down this journey for themselves, you're going with them on their journey, but it doesn't have to become your journey. And I think that's often the pressure that couples put on each other where it's like, well, if I'm going to do this, then you need to do it too. And that's where it starts to become unhealthy, where our journey becomes projected onto our partners. So, in this book, you also talk about

some really practical things around saying thank you more to our partners. And you talk about how we always notice the bad things or the mistakes they make. And we all know that, right? Whether it's not having the dishes done, whether it's not cleaning up the house, whether it's the shoes left at the door, whether it's

whatever it may be, right? In your own home, I'm just naming things my wife doesn't like that I do. When you look at those things, there's so many things that we point out as mistakes and criticisms and negatives consistently. What does the research show around a the amount of positive versus negative communication we have with our partners and b how negatively do those critical comments affect a relationship and then I'll come on to the next part which is all about how do we really say thank you in a deep way but let's start with that. Well there's a wonderful study by two two women Robinson and Price and What they did that was so interesting was they put observers in a couple's home

One person observing the husband one person observing the wife. These were only heterosexual couples and just observing Positive things that one person did for the other. And they trained the husband and wife to do that as well. And what they found was that in an unhappy relationship, people miss 50% of the positive things that a partner is doing. So, initially people thought,

well, what has to happen to make a relationship happy is that people need to be more positive to one another. But what they found was that people were already being positive to one another, even in an unhappy relationship, it's just that their partner wasn't noticing 50% of that positivity. So that suggested that you need a habit of mine in a relationship that's gonna work, where you notice what your partner is contributing to the relationship, rather than focusing on your partner's

mistakes or what they're doing wrong. Focus on what they're doing right. Focus on what really is happening that is positive in the relationship, and then that changes the relationship, that ability to have that different mindset where you're noticing what's going right. When you're focused on the negative, it turns out it actually affects your own health in a very bad way. You wind up being more irritable, being more vindictive and less cooperative, and you wind up

living less, this is an Israeli study that shows that people who respond during traffic to somebody who wants to cut into their lane by thinking, you know, that guy's not going to get into my lane. I'm not going to let that happen. That sort of angry response, viewing this behavior in a negative way, reduces their lifespan. So this positive habit of mine really is very powerful at increasing the amount of positivity and the relationship. Yeah, that's amazing. That's study about missing 50%. I mean, that's a big number.

That should not be forgotten at all. And I guess with that, the second part of my question was, how do you show appreciation effectively in a relationship, too? Because I think what happens up happening is there's so much familiarity, there is so much negativity, and most people have kind of walked down the negative path and now they're trying to rewire, right? So you've already built up a relationship over a few months or years maybe where you've just repeated the negative patterns. And now all of a sudden you listen to this podcast,

people read your book and they go, oh, wait a minute, I need to start being a bit more complimentary and noticing it. And now their partners are like, well, this just feels artificial. Or sometimes when you start being positive towards your partner, they also don't have to receive it because they don't think

they're worthy of it. So often I've found that where you can say, thank you to someone for something, but they don't know how to receive a compliment. They don't know how to really accept that. And so you keep saying the compliment day after day after day after day, but they never really digest it. So if you're making a switch in your relationship

from negative to positive, how do you say thank you in a deep, meaningful way that it will be received? And how do you do it when your partner struggles to receive compliments? Like you might say to your partner, hey, you look beautiful today or you look great in that. And they always pull a funny face or they go, well, no, I don't, I look like this. So I look like that because they are struggling themselves with that area of their life. A compliment doesn't solve that. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save a retirement? Well, you're not alone

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and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our 20s. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg, now streaming on the iHotRadio app, Apple podcasts, or whatever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Romani and I am back with season two of my podcast, Navigating Narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere, and their toxic behavior in words can cause serious harm to your mental health. In our first season, we heard from Eileen Charlotte,

who was loved by the Tinder Swindler. The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me, but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did. And that's even way worse than the money he took. But I am here to help. As a licensed psychologist and survivor of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissist in your life.

Each week, you will hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing, and the process of their healing from these relationships. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So first of all, let's discern between compliments and gratitude. Those are two different things. So, you know, giving somebody compliments is seeing something positive about your partner, some quality about your partner, that you are commenting on and saying,

wow, you look beautiful. Wow, that was a smart thing you just said. Wow, that was hilarious. That story you told, right? So that's a little different than saying, thank you so much for making the coffee. Thank you for doing the dishes for me when it was my turn and I was feeling really tired. So most people are much more able to hear, thank you.

But when you haven't said thank you for a really long time and all of a sudden you're saying thank you. It's like, oh yeah, right now you tell me. Yeah, right, sure, sure. What do you need? Are you, you know know setting me up to manipulate me to get something else You know, so they'll be distrust at first because it doesn't feel real it feels artificial But the way to make it real is don't exaggerate it You know in other words don't drop on your knees and say you know, oh my God, this is the best coffee I've ever had. Thank you so much.

You got to make it realistic, right? So, thanks for making the coffee. You keep it attuned to where the person is, what they've actually done. And if they've done something that's really meaningful to you then you tell them why it was meaningful to you. So you know you might say something like thank you so much for doing the dishes when it was my turn but I was just wiped out in time because, you know, here's what meant to me as a kid, I never got off doing my chores, whether I had a fever, whether, you know, I hadn't slept

all night, it never mattered. I always had to do my chores. So the fact that you had some compassion for me and you took over doing the chore, that means a lot to me. So thank you. You see, so when you accompany the thank you, especially if it's a bigger one, with why it has meaning to you, that's going to give it more weight, more impact, and enable the other person to hear it in the atmosphere you want it to be given. Well, let me say something about that because I think the changing from a negative habit of mind

where you're really noticing what other people are doing wrong and trying to fix them, to noticing what's going right and feeling gratitude about it, is a process of changing yourself. So don't focus very much on other people and how they're receiving it. I know that when I was in a very negative place, where I was experiencing anger, driving, people who were driving badly. I noticed that I had that negative mindset in general, and it took me a long time to change my own self so that I was noticing all the positive things that were happening around me and feeling grateful.

So it's really focusing on yourself and going, wow, you know, this is really quite a wonderful world in a lot of ways. And I've been looking at the glasses being half empty when actually it's half full. And it took me really two years to change myself from this negative habit of mine to a positive one. And then suddenly I wasn't walking around being irritable all the time. I was walking around saying, wow, you know, life is really quite nice. I'm very, I'm really a lucky person and you know, all these wonderful things

are happening in my life. So, you know, my advice would be don't focus so much on how others are responding. Really focus on yourself and realize that you're changing the way you're viewing the world and being more grateful for what really is wonderful about your life. Yeah, the great thing about that habit is that it has a big knock on effect on your entire life. Like we just, you know, it's like we, the fact that you're saying we miss 50% of the good things and then, Julie, your description of how to say thank you based on why it's meaningful to you. I think that is such great insight for your partner as well. Like, you know, you just saying, oh, thanks for washing up versus thanks for washing up because it gave me a

little extra time to catch up on that thing. I was trying to finish off for work or, you know, thank you so much for cleaning up because I was feeling quite anxious today. And that's made me feel really calm. Like those kind of insights are so much more powerful for your partner to not only remember, but to repeat that act of kindness and for them to recognize how meaningful it is to you. And so I think that's super practical. And the idea of just shifting our thought management of,

it's so easy to sit there and look at all the mistakes your partner makes or anyone makes, but to acknowledge that in light of the positive actions they're making, that to me is just great thought management because, as you rightly said, our thoughts are just constantly being dragged down into the dirt, the dirt, the studies that I've seen show we have 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day and 80% of them are negative and 80% of them are repetitive. And so it's not even like you're having a different bad thought about your partner every day, you're having a different bad thought about your partner every day.

You're having the same bad thought about your partner every day, right? So it's not even like there's any variety in it. But we would rarely have the same good thought every day. It's easier to get lazy about saying thank you for breakfast every day, even though that happens every day. But if someone doesn't clean up every day, that easily becomes a recurring thought that causes a lot of pain. I want to go more macro. We've been focusing on compliments saying, thank you. These are incredible insights. You're given this book. I want to go a bit macro as well and zoom out and say, how does someone know if a relationship is going to last and that they feel like this relationship has a future.

How do you know that? Is there a way to know that? Yes, there is. And it really has to do with commitment and what commitment really is. And one of the name Carol Rusbalt, who did this research for 30 years on commitment, showed that the important thing is to cherish what you have and magnify what you have in life with this partner. And to not constantly make comparisons and think that you can do better. So when the chips are down and your partner is kind of grumpy and irritable, to focus on

what you have with this person, their positive qualities, turns out to be very, very important. People who magnify the negative in their partner and think after an argument or after, you know, breakfast doesn't go very well or something, that they can do better. They're always shopping. They're always comparing their partner to real or imagined alternatives. Those people have relationships that don't last. And what Carol Ruspo showed was that in an argument,

you know, when they're unhappy with their partner, instead of talking to their partner about what they're upset about, they talk to somebody else about how they're being persecuted in that relationship. They don't go to their partner and say, you know, hey, baby, you know, I really missed, you know, having adventures with you. We used to do that and we haven't done that in a long time. They go to some nice person at Starbucks and they say, my partner, she's so dull that we don't have adventures.

Carol Ruspo showed that commitment is something that is inside you that you can control, you can really focus on what you have and how lucky you are to have this partner in your life. And then the relationship is much more likely to last, particularly if both people are doing that. On the other side of that is how do I know my partner is going to make that commitment? How do I know this relationship is gonna last? And I think there are some indicators of that. You know, one is consistency. Is that person consistently showing up? Is that person more or less consistently empathetic

with me whether I'm happy, sad, defeated, triumphant, you know, how are they responding to these different parts of me? Do they seem to treasure these different parts of me that as I feel safer and safer, I'm showing more and more? Are they allowing themselves to trust me? Are they allowing me to hold their heart in my hands? Because they trust me that much and to be vulnerable with me. Then, you know, that's telling you that, wow, you know, this person really does seem to get me.

They love these different parts of me. They can laugh with me about, you know, the crazy parts of me without judging me so harshly. So, and does that happen consistently? Or does something happen where all of a sudden your partner goes to you or, you know, they disappear for a couple of weeks and then you asked them hey where were you what happened and they say oh you know I just I needed you know whatever I just needed some space how come they didn't tell you they needed some space so that

you could talk about that a little bit and then provide them with that space with knowledge. The other big question is how does that person make you feel about yourself? It's not only how you feel about the other, but how do they make you feel about yourself? If they They make you feel valued, feel golden, feel funny, make you feel treasured even when you're crabby and they can laugh with you. I think it is a big piece of it. Then that relationship looks pretty darn good. That's those are some good signs. Let me add something to that.

You know, the phrase, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Well, a marriage is about putting all your eggs in that basket. It's really scary to do, to really trust in this relationship and invest everything in it. That's part of what Carol Ross Boltautus, when you commit to somebody, you're putting all your eggs in that basket. That person's health, that person's longevity, that person is your treasure. And if they know that, and you feel that about, you know, them, that they've put all their eggs into this basket, then that relationship lasts. Because something very special has happened. You know, your partner is saying, you are the love of my life. You're it. You know, I have nothing to offer anybody else. I mean, you have my whole heart for my whole life.

And that's what makes a relationship last. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that comes to my mind is that idea that things only lost if you want them to and if you make them, right? It's like me staring at a tree that I love in my garden and going like, will this tree last? And it's like, it's only gonna last if it's taking care of.

It's not just gonna last because it's gonna last. And so I think sometimes we ask questions that are kind of outside of ourselves. Like, is this relationship gonna last? And it's like, well, it's gonna last if you really wanted to, if you're willing to put in the work and so often, I think we sit there with that checklist of like, is my partner loving? Are they understanding?

Are they this? And it's like, well, are we any of those things, right? Like are we bringing that to this relationship or we committed to that? Are we consistent in creating adventure? That's what we're missing in the relationship. If we're missing a sense of intimacy, are we creating opportunities for intimacy, right?

Because if we're not doing all of that, we can sit there waiting for someone else to have a brainwave, but chances are that what's happening in today's society is people are so distracted, bored, just dull or have some numbness to themselves because of their own pain in their life. That if you're having the brainwave, if you're having the intuition, chances are you're going to have to inject a bit of that into a relationship, rather than hope, wish, and want, and wait for the other person, is somehow magically create something. And so, yeah, I really resonate with what you said, and that was just what was coming to

my mind. John and Julie, you've been such a pleasure to talk to again today. The book for everyone who's been listening is called The Love Prescription, Seven Days to More Intimacy, Connection and Joy. I highly recommend getting this book so you can talk, discuss, break down the seven. We only dabbled with a few of them today that I asked John and Julie to expand upon. And of course, if you haven't read any of their other work, I'm a big fan of all the books from the Gotman Institute. So please make sure you check those out as expand upon. And of course, if you haven't read any of their other work, I'm a big fan of

all the books from the Gotman Institute. So please make sure you check those out as well. John and Julie, I'm so grateful to have spent this time with you. I think we shared some really, I really enjoyed this discussion today because I feel like with you being such experts and you get it simplifying things, we could go off in so many different tangents and directions. We spoke about breakups, we spoke about control and manipulation, we talked about dating, we talked about questions, I mean, we talked about so many different aspects of a relationship. And I thank you both so much for your time, your space, and your energy and all the best on launching this book.

I hope it goes really, really well. And grateful to support you as always. Thank you so very much,. I love the wisdom and the depth of your questions, which you always bring to your interviews. And we really love receiving that depth. And real opportunity to explain our own thinking. Thank you. Thank you both so much. Thank you. I'm excited to share this with everyone. At some point in our lives, we all feel lonely. It can be one of the most painful things to experience. Of course, the strongest

antidote to loneliness can be our relationships. But here's the catch. Not all relationships actually help. The next seven minutes are about your connections and identifying the ones that don't actually serve you. I'm Jay Shetty, welcome to the Daily J. First, let's center ourselves with three deep breaths, inhaling, feeling your energy rise Exhaling the tension away. Expanding and releasing. Bringing awareness to this moment and settling in. Now for a little story. A traveler is wandering alone in the desert.

He's lost, he's tired, but most of all he's parched. Then suddenly he encounters a mysterious nomad. Hello stranger, the nomad says, you look thirsty. I can offer you two options. The first is cold water on the condition that you help me build a sand castle. The second is this bright sparkling elixir, which you can have for free.

The traveler is dehydrated and exhausted. He wonders why anyone would do work when the elixir is free. So he eagerly drinks the turquoise liquid, and it's delicious at first. But after a while, the traveler realizes he's still thirsty. In fact, he's even thirstier than he was before. The nomad says, don't worry, I've got plenty and gives the traveler more to drink. He keeps drinking but it only intensifies his thirst. Time passes and the traveler remains stuck in the desert,

still drinking the elixir and wondering why he has no strength. Now I'd like to tell you about a different traveler. He's in the same situation, tired, thirsty, lost. He runs into the same mysterious nomad and receives the same two options, build a sandcastle for cold water or drink the elixir. Construct a sandcastle he ponders. That takes effort. I don't know if I have it in me. But he feels like something's off with the elixir while he knows that the water is exactly what he needs. So he gets to work and as promised he's ultimately rewarded with ice-cold water.

Feeling rejuvenated, he has the strength to move forward and find his way out of the desert. Time passes and now he's back home feasting. Loneliness can feel like a desert, a wasteland that saps you of your energy. And when you're looking for connection, it can be tempting to rest your head on the first shoulder that comes along. But you need to carefully assess who they are and what you need. Some people may be demanding others selfish or draining. Some relationships may look appealing, but you need to evaluate what's truly nourishing.

I know it can feel like work to forge the foundation of a strong new relationship, especially when you're lonely. The idea of building something can seem exhausting, but the results are worth it. The right relationships are cold water when you're parched. They'll provide you with the strength and nourishment to find your way out of the desert. Now let's take a moment to meditate and then reflect on your relationships. Start by getting comfortable wherever you are, giving your body permission to find a position of ease. Closing your eyes if that helps you settle in or leaving them open.

or leaving them open. And now I'd like you to scan your body to check in with how you're feeling. So bring your attention to your head, noticing any sensations there, even the sensation of nothing. Move your attention to your face, softening the muscles, and seeing what you find.

Now scanning down your neck, and back. and back. Shifting your awareness to your arms. All the way down to your fingers. Try opening and closing your hands. Observe how that feels. Scan down through your legs, to your feet, even your toes.

And finally, bring your attention to the natural rhythm of your breath. Now let's open this up. Think about the relationships that quench your thirst and those that don't. and those that don't. Do you find yourself settling in moments of weakness? Going forward, can you prioritize the relationships that nourish you and avoid the pull of those that don't. Hopefully, the Daily J can help you quench your thirst. Please share this message with someone who needs to hear it,

and I'll see you tomorrow. The one you feed explores how to build a fulfilling life admits the challenges we face. We share manageable steps to living with more joy and less fear through guidance on emotional resilience, transformational habits, and personal growth. I'm your host, Eric Zimmer, and I speak with experts ranging from psychologists

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Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions. Like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the IHART Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.