On Purpose with Jay Shetty - 3 Ways To Get The Most Out Of Therapy & How Therapy Isn't Only for Big Issues and Problems

Episode Date: December 30, 2022

Today, I'm joined by Haesue Jo, Licensed Therapist & Head of Clinical Operations at BetterHelp, with years of experience providing individual and family therapy in community mental health. Her current clinical focus includes working with individuals with a variety of presenting problems, including anxiety, relationship and family issues, trauma, community violence, gender identity, and depression.In this session, we sit down with Ulato Sam as he talks about the challenges he had growing up, the hardships that comes when migrating into a new country as a person of color, overcoming the pressure of preconceived beliefs other people have, and learning the necessary skills and tools to be able to fend for yourself and still have the heart to help others.  Disclaimer: Haesue Jo is not Ulato's actual therapist, and they are not in a therapist-client relationship.This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.What We Discuss:00:00:00 Intro00:02:32 Growing up in Jamaica00:06:06 Not fully understanding self awareness 00:14:33 Expressing your thoughts without perspective interference00:17:33 The reality of moving into a new place00:22:01 Motivation to overcome societal pressure00:25:16 Where did you learn these skills?00:28:01 The pressure of life never stops00:32:00 “You should eat so as not to get hungry.”00:36:45 We all grow up with different experiences00:40:30 Tools we need to survive and thriveEpisode ResourcesBetterHelpWant to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II? An opera singer who burned down an honorary to kidnap her lover, and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils, haven't comment. They're all real women who were left out of your history books. You can hear these stories and more on the Womanica podcast. Check it out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. The world of chocolate has been turned upside down. A very unusual situation.

You saw the stacks of cash in our office. Chocolate comes from the cacountry, and recently, Variety's cacount fought to have been lost centuries ago, where we discovered in the Amazon. There was no chocolate on Earth like this. Now some chocolate makers are racing deep into the jungle. To find the next game-changing chocolate, and I'm coming along. OK, that was a very large crack it up.

Listen to the obsessions while chocolate. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nuneum. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Neum, I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bon vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about.

And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner. We're kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

They're now instead of challenges or problems, they're friends that I can bring closer. And sit down and calm them down so that they don't rattle me because at the end of the day I'm still the one in control. My emotions are a reflection of the internal side But they're actually not what makes the decisions. That is the eye the the congruent eye in the middle of all of that with that. Hey everyone, welcome back to this very special episode of On Purpose. Thanks to our partners at BetterHelp for this episode. Today I'm joined with Hesujo, licensed therapist and head of clinical operations at BetterHelp. Also, I just want to remind you that just because you might hear something on the show

that sounds similar to what you're experiencing, but where of self-diagnosis. You want to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnosis if that's important to you. BetterHelp would like me to mention the following trigger warnings for racism, bullying, and relationships with food. Today, we're joined by a very special guest, Yolato Sam, who's going to be sharing his own experiences, his own thoughts, his own journey in the world and in life

through his lens. And our goal with these episodes is to show you the insights or the inner workings of what a therapy session can look like. So what we're going to be doing is guiding you a lot through some therapy questions that is going to help him reflect, share his experiences, share his thoughts. In a way that hopefully shows you that therapy is accessible, it's approachable, and I'm hoping that these give you a sense

of what a real session could look like for you so that if you've had any fears or any doubts or any challenges with finding a therapist or going to therapy that hopefully some of those will go away. And of course, hopefully you download BetterHelp and use it in your life to make therapy really accessible and affordable and approachable for you. So, hey Sue, it's always good to have you back in the studio. Yolano, it's good to have you in the studio. Nice to meet you for the first time. It was worth it. And for the few moments I've spent with you just now, I can tell that you are very thoughtful, reflective individual. And so I'm grateful that you've allowed

us this opportunity to be a part of this experience. Thank you so much for bringing me into this space. As always, curating a space of wellness is something that is really necessary but also difficult to do. So, already, the fact that we have this easy breath and, you know, the nerves and jitters aren't necessarily bubbling to the top. I'm really excited to be able to have this conversation with you both. I'd love to hear more a bit about you and then that can go further into what you would like to talk about today. First and foremost, I'll say, I'm from the land of Woodenwater, the birthplace of Riggade

down, Saul and the fastest man and woman on the planet. Not other than Kingston Jamaica, so you have to represent, you know. But outside of that, growing up, I've always been into athletics and I come from a really unique family structure. My mom's from England, but my brother and I born and raised in Jamaica. And on top of that, we have this eclectic sense of family. And as I was maturing, my mom sort of saw an opportunity where my mental health was concerned, moving from spaces and schools where there were so many things brought together all at one time. Growing up in Jamaica, you realize that once you get to a particular school, probably high school, which starts in grade seven,

there are so many communities that come together all at one time. It's not as spaced out as a United States, so on an island, you can have someone that lives two, three parishes over that starts their journey to school at 5 a.m. in the city where we were. And I just happened to have a challenging time where my mental health was concerned. And that was when I met Dr. Agri Irons. It was a really unique experience because I was so young, I didn't even know what therapy was,

but in this space, not only were we dealing with anxiety and depression, but we were also dealing with family structure. How can I show up as the best version of myself so that I can be the best brother that I can be, older brother at that, and then also simultaneously be the best son that I can be older brother at that. And then also simultaneously be the best son that I can be because that was my first sense of duty that I can really think of. Outside of being my own individual, I realized I had this other title. I had son. And then soon thereafter I had big brother and I really started to find out what those two terms meant through sitting down with Dr. Irons.

Really connect with other people and I see that identity is really tied to context of you in relationship with your family. Yeah, family is where it starts, I believe, and then we open from that to culture because then the wider scope or the wider lens looks at the fact that this really nuanced and I would say it was somewhat of a benefit that was offered to me and my brother wasn't something that a lot of people around me

had the opportunity to experience. And I thank my mom for working so hard for that because it's been something that has shaped the relationship that I have with both of them to this very day. And so in those spaces, I realize that relating to other people is not just something that you do to survive or to move yourself forward, but it's something that's actually necessary to humanity. We can't sort of exist isolated and finding ways of communicating are super important as we've learned over the last maybe two and a half years as well.

So I'm glad that those skills have sort of stuck with me. Skills of being able to communicate relate with other people. You mentioned your mom saw an opportunity that's the way that you mentioned. To get you into, you know, a lot of people will say services into therapy, you were struggling. What would you say you remember about your own struggle? Not what your mom noticed about you, but what did you feel? And if you even remember that kind of thing? I can honestly say in the simplest form, the things that I remember are being exceptionally

present with myself, but not fully understanding what that meant. So there are these things happening internally. There are these thoughts that are running a little faster than I can keep up with. My body is responding in particular ways that I'm not able to check and really bring back. And before I knew it, I was competing heavily in track and field. It's something I did all the way up through college, ran internationally as well. And I found myself constantly in this, not just a space of doubt, but then also saying, I'm not the biggest on the field.

And sometimes when you perform in like a space like Jamaica, where we have like the biggest high school track and field meet in the Western Hemisphere, high school champs, there's a lot of pressure because, again, we're a nation where this is one of the ways that you can make your way out.

Big up to you saying, bowl to soft a pawl, hands apartments, those are some of the people that I had the fortune of whether being able to watch train or being part of a high performance track team with Fitz Coleman. Those individuals brought me into a space where I saw what was tangible and I put a lot of pressure on myself, not just to perform, but then also to make a mark, my desire was to make a mark on the world. And that was the first way I understood it. And combination of

like just being in high school, going through puberty, and then also performing at a high level in a sport, put me in this intersection of, well, who's helping this athlete to process what he's feeling on and off the track. And I think that's the opportunity that my mom saw because there was a big moment in high school where I just, everything froze. And it was my actual, my first absence seizure that I realized that I had. And that was the impetus to say, hey,

he's not having the craziest of physical responses. And that's how I ended up in my first therapy session. And in that session, I imagine you had a lot going on. You said something really pointed here about like being extremely self-aware, but not understanding what that means. And now you're reflecting on that later in life. You've gone through a lot of things, including that therapy. So what do you understand about yourself now that's different from then? When I was small, there were the doubts, the pressures. The, as my favorite author, Anthony C. Winkler,

would say, like, the little pastor that's in your head, that's telling you right from wrong, the voice that isn't yours yet, the voice that is probably society's or your families, that is there to guide you, but no one necessarily sits down and allows that process to be a very present one where we detail like, how are you feeling actually? What are you thinking about and how does life feel for you in your little body right now as you continue to develop. And so in

reflecting now, I realize that I'm more skilled with these techniques. I'm more patient with them as well. As a kid, you sort of want to understand, you want to do, you want to get done. And yet at the same time, you don't have the understanding of how to process all of that. And you might center yourself under all the isms and schisms that are around you. And so now I found that I give myself a bit more space to breathe, give myself a little bit more time to relate, not just to myself, but to my environment. And then I'm able to like analyze a bit more. And that allows me then with even some of the things that I still deal with today that may not have disappeared. But they're now

instead of challenges or problems, they're friends that I can bring closer. And sit down and calm them down so that they don't rattle me. Because at the end of the day, I'm still the one in control. My emotions are a reflection of the internal side, but they're actually not what makes the decisions. Hey, Sue, I just wanted to maybe just share a few observations for our views and listeners back at home or wherever you are. What I love about watching a therapy session in this way or a conversation with a therapist is you get to notice the really attentive listening that Jesus has of like

finding like something very specific that you said and using that as an opportunity to ask a follow-up question which we don't always get in our day-to-day life. I was thinking about if you were sharing your very honest truth on an everyday basis, sometimes our friends and family that they can be really well-intentioned, but it's really hard for them to ask a question that does justice to what you just shared and to really create a space of listening very attentively. And I could see what Jesus was picking out. And I'm sure you felt it

too that you you had to sit and think, Oh wow, yeah, I just said that. Like, what does that really mean? And I think that that's one of the beauties of therapy as well that you actually have someone who's sitting with you who is listening far more attentively and skillfully than most of the people we meet every single day. And then I was also just reflecting to what you said, I think that a lot of our listeners will be able to empathize with what it feels like being a young person who has pressure on them.

So whether it's sports or athletics or whether it's dance or gymnastics or whether it's swimming or whether it's, you know, whatever it is that any of us did when we were young, I think everyone can empathize with that experience of feeling like I'm not big enough, I'm not fast enough, I'm not skillful enough. And I can't even imagine what it begins to feel also when you feel that that is a method in

your nation to create some impact in your life. If you add that layer to it, that's a really remarkable layer. So I just wanted to share some of those reflections quickly from what I was hearing as well through this session. So if you're listening or watching right now, I hope you're appreciating and taking in all of these cues. Thank you. I mean, you're noting, I think, a very key difference from talking to people that you care about, that care about you, your friends, your family,

the folks that you generally want to turn to first when you're going through something. Oftentimes when they respond, when the folks that love you are listening to you speak, they're trying to respond in a way that's kind of like emotionally tied up in who you are in the relationship. So you're listening to respond with you in that response. What therapists are generally doing are listening to respond to you with you in mind I'm not responding with like anything that has to do with my life or trying to connect it to something about me And that's what people do. That's what friends do with each other is I'm gonna respond in a way that helps us connect on this friend level So I'm gonna bring it back to like all that reminds me of a time when I was in high school and I was running

track, like, you're going to find that therapists generally don't do that very much because the focus should remain on the client. So that is something that is intentional and something that somebody can expect when they go to therapy is this person is here with undivided attention to you, which most of us don't get in our everyday life with anybody. Definitely, yeah. You know, it allows for a relationship to form, but it is different.

It's different than what you're gonna have with your friends, you know, your loved ones. Yeah, like it's like that small bridge between maybe like a sympathetic relationship relationship versus an empathetic relationship Which the sympathetic to my understanding is oh, I've experienced that too I know what that feels like whereas what we're noting now is just sitting down with the person and being like I actually heard what you said and you mentioned this Would you like to speak more about that? I actually heard what you said and you mentioned this.

Would you like to speak more about that, which allows for the person that's actually going through something or the person that is coming for help to actually express what they need without this other perspective interfering and not to say that it isn't helpful sometimes because I do believe that in these sessions, there are obviously moments of the, oh, I know what you mean by that. Yet at the same time, they come even at more specific instances. And so it's really a pleasure

because also as a man of color, having these conversations too can lead to some very nuanced moments where those lines sort of get blurred for one or many reasons. So this definitely feels great. I am Mi'Allah, and on my podcast, The R-Spot, we're having inspirational, educational, and, sometimes difficult and challenging conversations about relationships. They may not have the capacity to give you what you need.

And insisting means that you are abusing yourself now. You human! That means that you're crazy as hell, just like the rest of us. When a relationship breaks down, I take copious notes and I want to share them with you. Anybody with two eyes and a brain knows that too much Alfredo sauce is just no good for you. But if you're going to eat it, they're not going to stop you. So he's going to continue to give you the Alfredo sauce

and put it even on your grits if you don't stop him. Listen to the R-Spot on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, it's Debbie Brown. And my podcast, deeply well, is a soft place to land on your wellness journey. I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers And my podcast deeply well is a soft place to land on your wellness journey. I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness and mental health

around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your journey. From guided meditations to deep conversations with some of the world's most gifted experts in self-care, trauma, psychology, spirituality, astrology, and even intimacy. Here's where you'll pick up the tools to live as your highest self. Make better choices. Heal and have more joy. My work is rooted in advanced meditation, metaphysics, spiritual psychology, energy healing, and trauma-informed practices. I believe that the more we heal and grow within ourselves, the more we are able to bring our creativity to life and live our purpose, which leads to community impact and higher consciousness

for all beings. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you deserve to be. Deeply well as available now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Big love. Namaste. I'm Eva Longoria.

I'm Maite Gomez-Rajon. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast, Hungry for History. On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages, from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Corner flower.

Both. Oh, you can't decide. I can't decide. I love both. You know, I'm a flower tortilla flower. Your team flower. I'm team flower. I need a shirt.

Team flower, team core. Join us as we explore surprising and lesser known corners of Latinx culinary history and traditions. I mean, these are these legends, right? Apparently, this guy Juan Mendes, he was making these tacos wrapped in these huge tortilla to keep it warm and he was transporting them in a burro, hence the name the burritos. Listen to Hungary for history with Ivalongoria and Maite Gomez Rejón as part of the Michael Tura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So speaking of connecting things back to something you just color, black men and women, for the longer

sessions that I've been able to commit to. And I say to commit to because there's a reality that therapy isn't always as affordable or convenient with the world that we live in. And so we're trying to, through something like this, make it feel more tangible and more accessible to people. But then, being in America, I have found that if I do happen to work with a therapist that may be of a different ethnicity or a different race, there are sometimes where depending if I haven't done enough research or we haven't had enough time together, those lines of like, well, I don't get to talk about this often.

That's actually in-resigate this when the this that they're investigating isn't what's most important to me. It's the that. And the only reason I'm able to have that a little bit extra of awareness is because my experience lets me know that I should be able to speak about the that and not the this. And if I'm understanding it sounds like you've had experiences where the person in front of you is focusing in on something, but that isn't necessarily what you wanna talk about.

But it sounds like you're over there kind of taking care of this other person too, thinking like, oh, I can understand why you would want to focus on that. So then you go with that, which takes the focus of that. So what is the that for you right now? What is something going on with you right now? I'll share, this is actually a genuine concern of mine.

I've recently moved into a new apartment. The first time it's me, my one bedroom, one bath, taking care of myself. Congratulations. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. And one of the things I had to ask myself recently is how safe I am in my apartment. We know the context of what it means to be an American, thanks to Morehouse College, my undergraduate experience, that the world isn't as fair sometimes. And we have seen the stories on the news. We hear it on the radio, we see the social media posts. But Breonna Taylor's experience resonated with me in a very different way. To know that you can be in your home, in your bed, fast asleep. That was something that it was real, but now that I am 100% on my own, sitting in that space, I ask myself,

how do not even how do I prevent that. But is that a reality for me? And the sad answer in some senses is yes, there is the small chance that if I haven't introduced myself properly to my neighbors, or if I leave at different hours, if I wear particular things, I might be seen as suspicious instead of mysterious and cool. I always want to be that low-key sexy neighbor like, oh my gosh, he's leaving. He's like, oh, he's coming back, you know? But the reality that I also have to navigate

is that before they get to meet me, there are might actually be, I guess, colored by the hue of my skin. And it's something that I have to be aware of regardless of where I am. And it just so happens that I live here. And so all the contextual matters of like what it means to be black in America, like sort of came back to me all at one time. So thank you for sharing that. For many other people who are describing to folks, like I just moved into my first place

of my own, the first thing that a lot of people are going to think is like, that's awesome. Congratulations, that's amazing. And then you continue to share that actually you also have to be concerned about your safety. This is not something that many people have to think about. And as you're speaking, I also have a lot of my own emotional reaction to hearing you because our homes are supposed to be our sanctuaries. Our homes are supposed to be the safest place where we can let our hair down, where we can feel comfortable, where we don't have to be on edge about anything.

What I'm hearing is that for you that is not always the reality. Yeah. And you want me to believe in this progress, right? And yet at the same time, on the news, I am able to literally see a physical representation of my features going through these extremely traumatic experiences, right? I'm seeing it not only represented by people advocating for it, but also

sensationalized and debated as to whether, oh, it's just or not, when in reality there are so many faces that look like mine, that dream like I do, that sound like I do, that are slowly absorbing all of that information. And without proper resources, without spaces like this, the discussion around empowering you in the face of that adversity is somewhat lost. And that is probably one of the goals of being a more houseman. It's to be a candle in the dark to represent that even though I know this reality is around me, this shadow might be following me. That's a lot of pressure for yourself again. A lot of pressure to be light in a very dark world. of pressure to be light in a very dark world. So what are the things you'd say in your life that continue to motivate you to overcome that pressure, to meet that pressure? I think of my granddad that recently passed. Again, we go back to family. So I need to say my mom,

my brother, my grandmother, my family. But outside of that, in the world, we get some small glimmers of hope. And one of the ideas that I constantly have is, what's my hope? And that happens to be my art. What gives me hope is a great story, but a story that doesn't reflect a lot of the stereotypes. I don't know if you all watched my favorite movie of the year this far. Everything everywhere all at once. Really fantastic movie. Outside of that, I love the world championships. You were earlier this summer, you know, a big of shalean phrase of price, Elaine Thompson, big of answer part, the whole. Like anytime I can see people like thriving, it's always big for me. I noted that there must be an immense pressure to continue to share this light that you have inside

of yourself with other people on top of also having to wonder if you're safe in your own home, if you're safe in any space like you said. And it's hope that you come back to that allows you to move through this world, continue navigating. It gives you kind of the freedom to continue to see beauty in the world. What about times where it doesn't feel so easy to do that? Well, this is where the skills kick in, is it not? And so it's going to the skills that I have or taking a moment, grounding myself.

And when I say grounding myself, sometimes it's the difference between a shallow breath and an actual deep breath. And knowing the difference in my body of like, what that actually feels like. There's a lot of people don't know what it means to breathe, you know, below their ribcage. And it's something that's uncanny to me because as an athlete, I was also never taught to breathe. I learned about it. It was like an important thing to me.

It's a very important thing. I learned about aerobic and anaerobic respiration, but no one ever gave me an exercise to expand my lung capacity. I'm putting my body under duress, I'm putting my body under stress. I like to use sports as an analogy sometimes for life. And yet still, the one process that is going to go whether or not your body is under that. The part that fuels you is not so much so expounded on. And so the skills really come into play when I'm not feeling my best. I typically in those dark moments either go to art, go to my loves, or go to my family. It's all still about connection, relationships, you know, being together, interconnectedness,

and it's making me think of intersectionality, how things in all of our lives meet each other in some way. It's clear that you're a person of the world that is absorbed. You said that, you know, life is an active choice that you're doing all the time, that you have these skills that get you through the more challenging times. Can you share where you started learning these skills? If nobody taught you how to breathe, where did you learn how to do that? I happened to be in these really amazing spaces, collaborating with these great people, and

I ended up working with after grad school. I ended up working with this wellness brand. And while we were there in that space, that was my first introduction to probably mindfulness, in that extent, sound healing, those types of things. And that was where a little bit of interest started to develop. But while I was pursuing my masters, I was conducting research. And what I found is that all cultures across the world

what connects us to the Eurobar, the Greeks, the Ashtex, is the fact that we all have the same instrument. Can you actively make the decision to go to your breath? Can you actively make the decision to just relax your shoulders, relax your forehead, stop biting on your jaw? These are all the things that we don't realize that we're doing, but no one is ever saying to you, hey, take a second and actually stop bracing because people think bracing means this. You going out there and grabbing the bull by that, you know, what I'm hearing is like, even when maybe you were conscious of it or not, people weren't teaching you

things, but you went out to be taught by the world. In some way or another, you're an active student of life. It sounds like in that that a life partner. And I'm also seeing that this lifelong learner has taken all the beauty that he's found and you really want to share it with other people. You you mentioned your family a lot and you mentioned art and art is something to be seen. Art is something to be experienced and something to move other people and sounds like you've to be experienced and something to move other people. It sounds like you've been moved. Do you want to move other people? I definitely do.

How can I do my work so that my cup is somewhat full so that I can water the next person, so that I can give just a little, not everything, because I need something for myself, but I can't start until I've poured something as we've heard the ageal saying into the cup. My mind keeps going back to something you said earlier. The pressure that, I don't know if it's a pressure that you felt for yourself, but a lot of people in your community felt when you're in high school to achieve,

to perform in a particular space in order to get out. I'd be remiss if I don't ask, like do you feel that kind of thing still present in your life? Do you feel like there are pressures to get out of something? Even if I do happen to make it to the place where I'm financially free and I'm able to protect and provide for my family, there's also this question,

which I'm sure both of you have asked yourself, how can I help the wider world, the wider community? It's through things like this, definitely. But the beautiful aspect of it is that I don't think it ever stops because my reality is until I see things changing the world around me, that means that they're still work to be done. And the question that I beg of myself is, what can I do? You've said so many things that I want to continue exploring with you, but really it's like you've done quite a lot of self exploration is what I'm hearing. It's interesting hearing you both Continue in the conversation. I think a lot of the time people have an assumption that

Therapy or conversations around therapy end up being like these deep dark secrets and these deep dark holes where it's like I always feel like sometimes people feel they have to invent a huge problem before a therapy session. And people feel like, oh, if I don't have a really big problem in my life, then I don't need therapy. And what I'm hearing today and hearing this conversation is actually, we're speaking to

someone who has a great set of skills, has some good ideas and good thoughts, but we're getting, and I'm hoping you're feeling this way, and you're the only person who can really tell us this, but there's a sense of like healthy reflection in and of yourself, of your own ideas. Jesus is asking you questions that are making you pause and stop and really think about where some of these strengths are, where they're not. So I start looking at it so much more of a wholesome discussion as opposed to like, I'm like in an emergency situation where I have a problem and I need a therapist to solve it, which is often a feeling I think

people have with, they're like, I'm not going to go to therapy because I don't have that, or I only go to therapy when I have something that extreme. Yeah, and people have shared with me that they get stressed out before sessions because they think that they're supposed to be prepared with this big problem that they're supposed to bring up or, you know, I've been asked, like, what am I supposed to bring to you? Am I supposed to become prepared with something? Do I need to have a topic on hand? And I've shared with folks, like, it doesn't always have to be that way.

Of course, if you have a topic on hand, that's something we're going to explore and dig deep into, but you're right. Therapy can also just be about digging deep into you, into something that's going on now, relating something that's happened in the past to the present. And it doesn't have to be deep and dark, although that does happen in therapy. But it doesn't have to be that way. It's not about like pathology or what's wrong with you or what's wrong with your mother or what's wrong with anything.

Sometimes it's so refreshing and healing, even if there's no wound there necessarily at the time, but it's like a refreshing thing to be able to just look in word and rediscover your values, what's important to you. Because being able to reflect on this stuff externally, I think, on a regular basis allows you to continue nurturing your sense of self. And when you don't have a strong sense of self, what seems like you have a, like, what's stronger than strongest, you know, like a strong sense of self, it is what

allows you to, you know, have an outpouring of love for other people to instill hope in others. And continue to be influential, inspirational. These things don't happen if you don't know who you are. Two things to that. My grandma always says, you shouldn't eat because you are hungry. You should eat so that you do not get hungry. This is coming from a woman that at some point knew what it meant to be. So I have learned that therapy isn't necessarily because you need the help at the moment. It's so that you can be prepared for that moment where you might not actually have access to the therapist. And then the second thing is that the issues that

I think that I've gone through are actually like chilling. They're actually a lot heavier than I think. Maybe it sounds like in the moment. But I had to realize that the issue is always going to be the issue. It's your relationship to the issue that is positive or negative. Life is going to be what life is. It's your relationship to life that is either positive or negative. It's a real thing for me when I'm in particular neighborhoods. I remember working and performing in Europe and the first time I was in Poland,

I remember what the response was to me when I walked into certain spaces. But my relationship to those things is that, again, not only am I a candle in the dark, that is allowed to feel what I feel, but then what can I do to shift this space? To leave it better than I saw it. You know, like, I am the one person here

that was born in the United States, I was born here, I was raised here, having said that, I also look like someone that has this like perpetual foreigner label stuck to them. Regardless of having been born here, raised here, educated here, I still encounter on a fairly regular basis the idea from other people that I don't really belong here, that I am a visitor to this country, which is weird because I'm the most American one in this world. And I think that experience, like ever since I was very small, because my parents who decided

to have their kids in this country and still name them, like, foreignly, like, I have a very ethnic name. And that is very much part of my experience and my journey is shaped who I am. It made shaped who I am. It made things difficult when I was a small kid. But at this point, it's not something I would want to change. I think that and navigating the world in this yellow body, it leaves this gaping hole, this thing I'm trying to fill of wanting to be included, of wanting to be accepted, of wanting to belong. And I think to be accepted, of wanting to belong.

And I think that's one of the pillars of humanity. It's like we're all looking for that sense of belonging. And I think, you know, my journey into my profession and the career track I've chosen and everything that I've done at this point is all related to that. And you said something about, you know, getting to know people on an individual level on a one-on-one experience. When I get to learn about somebody else's life and their pain and their hope and their love, it allows me to feel closer to that sense of belonging.

It's like, we're all actually kind of the same in many ways, regardless of all kinds of stuff. And it allows me to feel included. You know, I entered a field to mental health is still very predominantly white. And I find myself in professional spaces where I still feel like the extreme minority, which I think is still something that I grapple with, it's still something that I'm navigating and still something I'm trying to feel completely comfortable with because ultimately, I can say that I feel comfortable in my skin. I feel good that I live authentically,

but there are still contexts and there are still spaces and there are still times where I don't feel that same confidence in myself. And it's something I bring with me, I think, to my work. Because I know I look like a certain way. And I know that people are thinking about something as soon as they see me. And that's part of the work too,

and part of my personal and professional challenge is always feeling like I have to prove myself. And you know, the nice thing when I'm in an actual therapy session when it's just me and this other person, a lot of that pressure actually dissipates. It's not really there as much. Because as soon as this other person starts to recognize that they can feel safe

because I'm not here to talk about anything that would make them feel othered in this one on one interaction, I feel accepted by them, too, my clients. And I think that's what intersectionality is about. Even for example, you sharing that allows me to feel like you can understand my plight, a little bit more, because it's also one thing that I've noticed because there are individuals that may look like us that also don't have that awareness either, right? And growing up in Jamaica, I was really fortunate to be able to

grow up and see black billionaires, to see doctors that look like me, to have teachers both male and female that looked like me. And when I went to Morehouse, I was very fortunate to have that continue. But I will let you know that since leaving Morehouse, almost every instructor that I've had, every teacher that I've had in my master's program, I did not have one black instructor directly teach me. I had to go out and find in the department, right? And one of the things that really grounded me was actually knowing that I know that it's possible. And I think

that's also like a double-edged sword because knowing what's possible and then being in a space where it's not visibly seen, it then frustrates you because it's like, why isn't it happening? But the reality is that if we can be intentional and creative and mindful in not just our art, but the way that we live, the impact that we'll have is so much longer lasting that we can literally shape the way people are going to experience the world. Well, Yolanda, I mean, hearing from you today, I mean, I feel very inspired by your commitment to the work that is so important to your heart, not just to your heart, which is so important to the world, right?

Like, this is work that I think we all believe is valuable and needed and critical. It's not even you know, it's not a it's not a luxury. There's a this is just a necessity for what we need as humankind, but what I find very indicative is that the work that you've been able to do with your family Through the amazing experiences that you've had thanks to your family, through the work that you have done in therapy has given you the ability to now go out and want to share this message with the world.

Like that's what at least what I make and you can totally agree, disagree, but that's what I'm perceiving in someone like you where you've been through your pain, you've been through challenges, of course, we're always going through pain and challenges, but you're someone who's created a toolkit for yourself, whether it's the tools that you develop through therapy or, you know, and so now you're in a position of strength and empowerment in wanting to go and be disliked that we were discussing and dealing with the pressure of being that light. But that's some of the work that so many people are trying to do right now is even feeling like I think, I think we all know that it's hard to be the light when all you've seen is darkness.

And we know we don't want people to prematurely try and be the light. And at the same time, we also know that ultimately when you've walked out of your own darkness, it's great to turn the light on for others. Right. So much of what therapy is doing is helping us make sense of our emotional and mental self in order to figure out what we want to do in the outside world. a mental self in order to figure out what we want to do in the outside world. And it sounds like that's work that you've been doing and continue to do, which is giving you a sense of strength to try and help others right now. And I think we as human beings have the capacity to develop that unlimited toolkit, but it's not until we have great teachers and collaborators, access to information, access to basic human needs that we can stop thinking of survival,

and we can then start to thrive. And so I have to give thanks for the blessings that I have. Thank you so much, Ylana. Thank you. Asura, did you have any final words or remarks for us for today that you wanted to share? Wish I had something super wise. My relation to that is that's part of what I think I aim to have my clients strive for in therapy is integration of separate pieces of self, integration of

you know, all these different components. Those are all very important things that I think about in conceptualizing a client case also. Really integrating all these things that may feel disconnected or disjointed is what allows you to continue to be authentic and move through the world as somebody that you feel really comfortable being, somebody that you wanna be around. Thank somebody that you want to be around. Thank you so much for sharing that.

Really powerful. Everyone has been listening and watching at home. I hope today's episode has been enlightening in so many different ways in not only the process of therapy, which is what we started with, but in helping each and every one of us recognize more coherently the amount of work that we need to do as individuals and as a society, I think that's ultimately what I always take away

in these conversations is just how much progress we need to make individually and collectively. And I think anyone who's listening to on purpose is dedicated to that. Believe that everyone is dedicated to their personal growth and the growth of the society around them. And when we recognize that those two things are not disconnected, that they're actually one and the same. I often say to people, if we care about ourselves, then we'll care about our kids.

That's obvious. And then when you care about your kids, you care about your kids' school. And then when you care about your kids' school, you care about your kids' town. And when you care about your kids' town, you care about your kids' city. And then when you care about your kids' city, you can't, if you care, then your care doesn't stop. And I think when we take a moment to invest in our own selves and our self-care and then expand that radius out, we can create a better society for all. So thank you so much everyone who's been listening and watching today. Thank you to Yolada Sam for joining us, opening your heart, opening your

mind. Hey, Sue Joe, thank you so much for always guiding us and helping us navigate these wonderful conversations. And to everyone who's been listening and watching at home, thank you so much for always guiding us and helping us navigate these wonderful conversations. And to everyone who's been listening and watching at home, thank you so much for tuning in. I will see you again on another episode of on purpose. This episode was sponsored by BetterHelp. Big thanks again to Hey Sujo, head of clinical operations at BetterHelp. Hey Sujo is not my actual therapist and we are not in a therapist-client relationship. Also, just because you might hear something on the show that sounds similar to what you're experiencing,

the wear of self-diagnosis. You want to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnosis if that's important to you. When my daughter ran off to hop trains, I was terrified I'd never see her again, so I followed her into the train yard. This is what it sounds like inside the box car. And into the city of the rails, there I found a surprising world, so brutal and beautiful, that it changed me.

But the rails do that to everyone. There is another world out there. And if you want to play with the devil, you're going to find them down in the rail yard. And then I'll morten. Come with me to find out what waits for us in the city of the rails. Listen to city of the rails, on the iHeart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Or cityoftherails.com. Getting better with money is a great goal for 2023. But how are you going to make it happen? Ordering a book that lingers on your nightstand isn't going to do the trick. Instead, check out our podcast How to Money. That's right, we're two best buds offering all the helpful personal finance information you need without putting you to sleep. We offer guidance three times a week and we talk about debt payoff, saving more, Intelligent investing and increasing your earnings. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them make progress with their financial goals.

You can listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Yvonne Gloria and I'm Maite Gomes-Rajon. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast, Hungry for History. On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Listen to Hungry for History on the I Heart

Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.