On Purpose with Jay Shetty - 4 Signs You Care Too Much About What People Think & How To Stop Worrying About People’s Opinions

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

Do you find yourself thinking too much about other people’s opinions? Is it starting to feel like it’s negatively affecting your life?  Today, Jay unveils the subtle yet pervasive signs that indi...cate a deep-seated concern for others' opinions and the telltale signs that you may be overly influenced by external validation, from struggling to assert boundaries to outsourcing your decision-making to others. Jay Also talks about actionable tips and strategies for reclaiming your sense of self-worth and how to draw inspiration from those who have walked a similar path before you, cultivating resilience and self-assurance in the face of external judgment. Explore the transformative power of reframing your self-perception and embracing a mindset of self-acceptance, as Jay emphasizes the importance of clarity and self-awareness in navigating life's challenges.  In this episode, you'll learn: How to not crave external validation How to stop people-pleasing How to not get swayed by other people’s opinions How to stand your ground  Gain practical tools for cultivating inner strength and confidence, from reframing negative self-talk to recognizing the inherent value of your own opinions and choices. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 02:11 Stop Caring About What People Think 04:10 Sign #1: You Get Easily Swayed 05:36 Sign #2: You Struggle to Say NO 06:18 Sign #3: We Often Want to Please Others 06:40 Sign #4: You Outsource Your Choices 09:22 Tip #1: Someone Has Been Through a Similar Experience Before You 17:00 Tip #2: Don’t Be Someone Who Gossips About Others 18:52 Tip #3: Be Clear About How You Feel About Yourself 21:06 Tip #4: Opinions Don’t Become Your Reality 22:19 Tip #5: Think of the Three Best Decisions You’ve Made in Your Life 24:20 Tip #6: People Are Not Thinking About As Much As You Think They Are See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast podcast on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care. Hey, I'm woman of drama executive producer of the new podcast day. My abuelita first each week, the incredible Vico Ortiz and fabulous abuelita Liliana Montenegro will play matchmaker for a group of hopeful romantics. Right, Vico?
Starting point is 00:00:43 You know it. Listen to Dave my Alvalita first. Thursdays on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, don't do anything I wouldn't do. Just do it better. Besitos. Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which is awesome.
Starting point is 00:01:05 I mean, I don't have to tell you that it's a primary focus of on purpose. But on a day to day basis, many people don't know where to turn or which tools can help. Over the past couple of years, I've been working with calm to make mental wellness accessible and enjoyable. Or as I like to say, fun and easy. Calm has all sorts of content to help you reduce anxiety and stress, build mindful habits, improve sleep, and generally feel better in your daily life. So many bite-size options from the most knowledgeable experts in the world, along with renowned
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Starting point is 00:02:09 And I think that's the challenge. We often take people we love and trust as their opinion matters across every area of my life. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only. Jay Shetty.
Starting point is 00:02:24 Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am so grateful that you're locked in right now. The amount of you that are listening on Spotify, on Apple, leaving your reviews make such a huge difference. And I hope that you're going back into our back catalog of previous episodes as well. Make sure you're not missing out on anything because I know that there's been some updates on the apps.
Starting point is 00:02:48 I wanna make sure that you don't miss out, subscribe, come back every Monday and Friday for new episodes, and of course, remember, we have 500 episodes from the last five years that you can go back to if you're a new listener. Whether you've listened to one episode, welcome. Whether you're listening to your 500th episode, welcome back. I am Jay Shetty and I'm so happy to be here with you today. Today's theme is stop caring about what people think and the signs that we care too much
Starting point is 00:03:19 about what people think. Now, the reason I dove into this topic is because I think we've all had a situation with our friends where someone sends a decision they're about to make to the group chat and they say, what do you think I should say on my dating profile? Or what do you think about this guy that I'm dating? Or what do you think about this job opportunity that's out there?
Starting point is 00:03:43 Or what do you think about what I should wear to the party this weekend? Now there's nothing wrong about that. It's harmless, it's totally normal, it's natural for us to seek validation from the people around us, to seek insight from the people around us. But often what we find is that we've gone down a hole a whole where we make decisions, choices and big directives in our life based on what other people think. A lot of us when we're young chose subjects at school based on what our parents thought. We chose where we went to college maybe because of some friends. We maybe even chose what city we live in because we were in a romantic relationship until it didn't work out. And so so many of our decisions, some of our biggest decisions
Starting point is 00:04:32 in life are made aligned with other people's values and not always with our own values. And this episode is all about us really getting clear on that. It's not bad to make a decision based on someone else's value if the value aligns with us. It's not bad to make a decision based on someone else's value if the value aligns with us. It's not bad if we're conscious and aware, but it's really important that we recognize it. So I want to talk to you a bit about the signs that we care too much about what other people think of us, because sometimes it can be so subtle, right? It's not always so obvious as you buy the same clothes or go to the same places. It can be so subtle, right? It's not always so obvious as you buy the same clothes or go to the same places.
Starting point is 00:05:07 It can be a lot more subtle. One of the first ways or signs that shows we care too much is that we can be easily swayed. So we often take this as a feeling of, oh, I'm laid back, I'm open to anything, I'll do whatever you want. And really, it's because we're scared of sharing our opinion because we're scared that people may not wanna do that.
Starting point is 00:05:31 Maybe it's deciding what movie to watch or what restaurant to go to. You end up at a horror movie, even though you absolutely hate them, and you end up eating a particular cuisine, even though it's your least favorite. You're easily swayed because there's a part of you that doesn't want to be the one to cause conflict.
Starting point is 00:05:50 There's a part of you that doesn't want to be the one to stand out. Now, you may be easygoing, you genuinely may not care and that's probable too. But for those of you that are thinking, you know what, I do get easily swayed. I do find it easy to sacrifice and give up on what I really care about and what I want. This is an important note. Now, I'm not saying that the way to do this is to fight for everything
Starting point is 00:06:14 you want or to retaliate because often we've been giving people the permission. Often we're not easily swayed because someone's persuading us or negotiating with us. We're easily swayed because we allow ourselves to be. This is something that we can set better boundaries around. The second sign is you struggle to turn things down. You struggle to say no. Someone says to you, oh, you're coming out tomorrow night, right? And even though you had other plans, even though you knew you didn't want to go, you said, yeah,
Starting point is 00:06:50 I'll be there. And then the whole next 24 hours, you're going, why did I say yes? I just want to stay indoors. I don't want to go anywhere. But now you've said yes. You struggle with saying no. You struggle with being clear because we care about what people think. We're hoping that people don't think we're boring, that people don't think that we're not a good time, that people don't stop inviting us, right? We're worried about all of these things.
Starting point is 00:07:17 Another sign is that we are self-proclaimed people pleases. We know that we're constantly trying to shape shift. We're constantly trying to be malleable because all we want to do is please others. Not because we genuinely wanna please them by who we are, but by actually disconnecting from who we are. Another one is you outsource your choices, right? So someone else is making a decision about what you wear.
Starting point is 00:07:47 Someone else is making a decision about the color of your couch. Someone else is making a decision about something else, right? You're basically saying, guys, can you make the decision for me because I don't want to make decisions? And in that way, we almost do that because a part of us doesn't want to take responsibility. We'd rather be able to say oh, yeah, but they told me it was a good idea
Starting point is 00:08:07 I thought it was a good idea and again it comes from a lack of trust in ourselves Now these are all very normal things. This doesn't make you weak. It doesn't make you Not strong. It doesn't make you not bold, it doesn't make you not a good person. These are things that we all struggle with and I still struggle with too. Right, I remember a couple of weeks ago when I'd already made plans and I had to say no to someone and it broke my heart. I still feel bad when I have to do that. But I started looking into it and a lot of the science and research suggests that we have to care what people think in order to develop closeness.
Starting point is 00:08:47 Right? We have to care what people think in order to feel a sense of belonging. That's what belonging is all about and belonging is a core tenet in life. We need it. Right? If you feel a part of a team, you feel we all support the same team, so I do care about what you think. Right? If we're going to the same place of worship or we all support the same team. So I do care about what you think, right? If we're going to the same place of worship or we go to the same community center, we think to ourselves, yeah, I wanna feel like I fit in. And the list goes on and on and on.
Starting point is 00:09:16 And the truth is if we didn't care about what people think, the world would be chaotic. Can you imagine if everyone on planet Earth didn't care what anyone thought that would lead to chaos? If you've ever played GTA that's what it would be like right where there's no consequences it doesn't matter you can do whatever you want and I mean yes the cops will come after you but the reality is that you kind of live in a way that it doesn't matter what you do because it's not real. So imagine kind of live in a way that it doesn't matter what you do because
Starting point is 00:09:45 it's not real. So imagine if we lived in a world where everyone did exactly what they wanted. Although it's a nice idea in theory, in practice, it could be extremely, extremely worrying. And so the part that we have to understand is there are moments in our life where it is healthy to listen to others, where it is healthy to care about what other people think. And I wanna start with that. I wanna start with when should we care
Starting point is 00:10:19 about what other people think? One of the ways that I found it really useful is if someone has been through an experience previously to you. Think about a basic example. Someone's been to a country before you. Someone has been to a concert before you. I'm not saying that their experience
Starting point is 00:10:37 will be your experience, but their advice, their insight may be useful. If you wanna start a podcast, speak it as someone who started a post-class and asking them, what are some of the challenges you came up against? What are some of the things you were surprised by? What are some of the things that were easier than you thought?
Starting point is 00:10:54 Being able to talk to someone who's one year, three years, five years into an experience allows you to understand something deeply. You can care about what they think. And notice there's a difference between caring about what people think and what people think of you. I think these two things are often convoluted, right?
Starting point is 00:11:18 It's like, I can care about your opinion as your opinion and still not make it my noise and my opinion. And I think we don't understand how to filter and how to create a distance between these two things that automatically when someone says something, we subconsciously make it our own. And so I really want you to consider in your life, whenever you listen to people and it's been really powerful and useful. I can honestly say at a conversation with someone the other day, they shared so many great insights with me. It was all about
Starting point is 00:11:53 Junie, which of course is, mine and my wife's sparkling adaptogenic tea. And for those of you who haven't tried it, please do. It's one of our favorite things that we've been working on. It's a real passion project. And as we've been building Drink Junie as a company and as a brand, we've had to take advice from other beverage entrepreneurs who've done it before us because we're complete novices. And at that point, it is important that I care about what they think, right?
Starting point is 00:12:20 It's also important to care about what people think when it's a group of people that you trust. A group of people that you recognize have different things to offer you. So there are four C's of connection. The first one is care. There are some people that care about you. So you care about what they think when it comes to caring about you. If you want to know who has your best interest at heart, this is the group to go to.
Starting point is 00:12:49 The second one is consistency. There are certain people who are consistently there for you. They've always been around. They'll always be around because they are just in your life. Again, you care about what they think about you in that specific area. I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there. And even if you don't love tea, if you love refreshing, rejuvenating, refueling sodas that are good for you, listen to this. Radhi and I poured our hearts into creating Juni sparkling tea with adaptogens for you
Starting point is 00:13:26 because we believe in nurturing your body and with every sip you'll experience calmness of mind, a refreshing vitality and a burst of brightness to your day. Juni is infused with adaptogens that are amazing natural substances that act like superheroes for your body to help you adapt to stress and find balance in your busy life. Our super five blend of these powerful ingredients include green tea, ashwagandha, acerola cherry and lion's mane mushroom and these may help boost your metabolism, give you a natural kick of caffeine, combat stress, pack your body with antioxidants and stimulate brain
Starting point is 00:14:04 function. Even better, Juni has zero sugar and only five calories per can. We believe in nurturing and energizing your body while enjoying a truly delicious and refreshing drink. So visit drinkjuni.com today to elevate your wellness journey and use code on purpose to receive 15% off your first order. That's drinkjuni.com and make sure you use the code on purpose. I think what I'm trying to say is that there are people whose opinion matter in specific areas of your life. There are very few people whose opinions matter across the entirety of your life. There are very few people whose opinions matter across the entirety of your life.
Starting point is 00:14:46 And I think that's the challenge. We often take people we love and trust, people that have known us for a long time, as their opinion matters across every area of my life. And often, sometimes, we trust someone who barely knows us with their opinion of our entire life. The third one is competency. This is a really, really important point that I want to make. Often we care about what people think about us even when they're not experts in the field. And this is potentially one of the most damaging times we care about what people think because not only are they not an expert, they may not be that close to us, yet their opinion matters to us so much, right? Have you thought about that before?
Starting point is 00:15:30 Maybe you're working on a project and then someone shares their opinion on it. No, I'm not saying there may not be any value in what they're saying, but if they're not an expert in that space, it doesn't make sense. I often say that to my friends when my friends are asking me for advice
Starting point is 00:15:45 about a particular career path. And I'll stop and I'll say to them, I know nothing about that industry. I can give you some life principles. I can give you some thought about how humans interact in that space. And I can share some ancient wisdom and science that I've read.
Starting point is 00:16:02 But I can't really give you an example because that industry is something I don't have experience with. And I think that's a really important trait of the people around you as well, who can own up to when they don't know. So, and the last one is character. There are people in your life who you know when you want to test whether you're doing something that's aligned and of the right values, then these people carry that character. So you've got care, consistency, competence, and character. When you do care about what people think, make sure they fit into one of these four categories and you allow them to have an impact based on that category.
Starting point is 00:16:42 So that's all about choosing your friends wisely. Some people will have an opinion about everything, right? They'll have an opinion about what you're wearing, who you're dating, how much money you make, what home you live in. And that can be really hard if someone has an opinion about everything you're doing, because if they're close to you,
Starting point is 00:17:01 it starts to become relevant. So choose your friends wisely and recognize who are your friends that you value because they care for you. Who's the list of people that you value because they're competent? Who are the consistent people and who are the people of high character? I actually want you to write down those four words and make lists of people in your life so that the next time you're struggling with one of those areas, you have someone you can reach out to. And the next time you get some unsolicited insight, you get some unsolicited answers from one of these people,
Starting point is 00:17:32 you can actually think, well, wait a minute, do they fit into this category of the advice they're giving? This is a great filtering tool. Like if someone's giving me career advice, but that's not their forte and that isn't something to understand. It doesn't mean that I don't think there's value in it, it just means that I still have to live my life and I can't be sidetracked because otherwise
Starting point is 00:17:53 everyone's opinion is relevant at all times. I hope that makes sense, it's compassionate and kind but it has to be clear as well. This one's a huge one, don't be someone who gossips about others. Because if you talk about others, you'll always assume people are talking about you. Let me say that again. If you gossip about others, you'll always think others are gossiping about you.
Starting point is 00:18:17 You'll always feel that other people are talking about you because that's what you're doing in your spare time. In your spare time, you're looking at someone else going, I can't believe they wore that, can't believe they did that, can't believe they're dating so and so, can't believe. And if you're having that conversation, you're basically creating a projection.
Starting point is 00:18:35 See, the reason why, when someone does something really bad to us, it's really hard for us to understand because we're like, we would never do that to someone. Right, we think to ourselves, well, I would never ever do that to you. So you don't even, you can't even wrap your head around it sometimes. And so similarly, when you're treating people a certain way, like if you're
Starting point is 00:18:56 thinking a lot about other people in your head, you're thinking, well, they must be thinking about me. We project our own insecurities onto the behaviors of others. We project our own challenges onto the behavior of others. And so that's really, really important that we recognize that we don't want to be someone who's gossiping or talking about others and then struggling because we are lost in that mindset.
Starting point is 00:19:27 And apart from that, it's just unhealthy. If we're constantly speaking about others, we don't have time to speak about really big ideas, dreams, goals, things we're working on, how we're improving ourself, and it's a slippery slope, slippery, slippery slope. And we often justify that we're doing it for the right reason,
Starting point is 00:19:46 but we all know that there are better things to focus on for our own growth. Number three, really important, be clear about how you feel about yourself. What is important to you? In Think Like Among chapter one, I give you an auditing exercise. The auditing exercise is writing down what you think you currently value.
Starting point is 00:20:09 And remember, what you value is not what you think you value, it's what you spend your money, your time, and your energy on. I always say to people that your schedule and your expense report shows you more about what you value than what you think in your head. So for example, what's your greatest expenditure? Is it truly on family because you say you value family or is it on personal expenses? Right, when you say your schedule,
Starting point is 00:20:35 if you say you truly value your work, but then your work doesn't make up that much of your day. So when we analyze our money and our time outgoing, that shows us what we value. And what I'm asking you here is be clear about what you value and whether it's actually showing up in your life. The audit exercise is writing down a list of your current values and then asking yourself where you got it from. So write down a list of your values, write down a list of where you got them from, and then ask yourself, do I still want this value?
Starting point is 00:21:10 I'll give you an example. There may be someone who has a value that they like to spend a lot. And then when they reflect on where they got that value, they realize they got that value from a parent. And now when they reflect on their value themselves, they go, actually, this value is not serving me. This value is not helping me build a good life. I do want to change my value. This is how we get clear about our values. When we get really clear about our values, we now, even if the result
Starting point is 00:21:40 isn't in our favor, we still feel okay. I've had this experience, right? And you've probably had it too, where like, you do something, it makes no sense to anyone, but because it made sense to you, you think to yourself, you know what, that's okay, it's okay, right? But oftentimes, we do things without a sense of personal clarity. We take steps without being open and honest with ourselves. are putting their trust in Avalita to find them a date. Your job right now is to get on Avalita's really good site.
Starting point is 00:22:27 Our Avalita definitely knows best. On date my Avalita first, three single contestants will vie for a date with one lucky main-dater except to get their hearts, they have to win over Avalita Liliana first. Die Liliana! Yes, we are ready for love. Through speed dating rounds, hilarious games, and Liliana's intuition, one contestant will either be a step closer to getting that pan dulce, if you know what I mean, or a step closer to getting that chancletta.
Starting point is 00:22:53 Let's see if CheezPass will fly or if these singles will be sent back to the dating apps. Listen to Date My Avalita first on the IHAR radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is the destination for all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here, we have the conversations that help black women
Starting point is 00:23:21 dig a little deeper into the most impactful relationships in our lives. Those with our the most impactful relationships in our lives, those with our parents, our partners, our children, our friends, and most importantly, ourselves. We chat about things like what to do when a friendship ends, how to know when it's time to break up with your therapist, and how to end the cycle of perfectionism. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care. Number four, opinions don't impact your reality.
Starting point is 00:24:10 I want this one to sink in. Close your eyes and hear me say this. Opinions don't become your reality. What they do is that they can become your thoughts. Often we think if someone says something, then that's just how it's gonna go. It's not true. If someone thinks your business isn't gonna work,
Starting point is 00:24:32 that doesn't mean anything. If someone thinks your podcast is a bad idea, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. If someone doesn't think that what you're doing helps people, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. And what I've realized is that a lot of us get so lost in trying to overvalue what someone feels that we undervalue doing the work. So when someone else's opinions become your own thoughts, that's when it really starts to hurt.
Starting point is 00:25:01 That's when it really starts to dismantle you. And so what we have to be careful of is we have to recognize that everyone's entitled to their opinion but we can't make it a part of our inner dialogue. We can't make it a part of our inner thought process. Here's an activity I want you to do for step number five. I want you to think of your three best decisions you've made in life. The best decisions you ever made that you could see afterwards that they were the best decisions. So if I was to choose mine, one would be choosing to become a monk, one would be leaving to become a monk, and the third one would be starting the podcast.
Starting point is 00:25:45 For example, I could pick many others, but those would be three that I would consider to be really good decisions in my life, some of my best decisions. So I want you to make a list of your three best decisions. Now I want you to think about it because I guarantee that your three best decisions in life weren't based on other people's opinions. I'm pretty sure that your best three decisions in life
Starting point is 00:26:10 maybe even made others feel uncomfortable. I remember when I chose to become a monk, people didn't think that was the best idea. And when I left being a monk, people didn't think that was the best idea. When I wanted to start my podcast, people didn't think it was the best idea, right? A lot of people didn't actually.
Starting point is 00:26:25 I didn't have a lot of validation for those three decisions, but I was really sure that this was going to be good for me, that I was really passionate about the decisions I was making. And I truly believe that your best decisions in life were not influenced by someone else.
Starting point is 00:26:43 Now, that doesn't mean you didn't get inspiration. It doesn't mean that other people didn't positively impact it. But what I find is that they weren't based on the opinion of others. And I want you to take confidence in that. I want you to take confidence in the fact that you have made brilliant decisions in the past
Starting point is 00:27:01 and they were brilliant because you weren't being impacted by other people's opinions. Right, if other people's opinions align with you, that's great but you have to ask yourself is it actually making you feel uncomfortable to pursuing the path that someone else thinks is good for you? Number six, people are not thinking about you as much, as often, or as deeply as you think they are. Let me say that again. Take this one in. Let it sink in.
Starting point is 00:27:35 People are never thinking about you as much, as often, or as deeply as you think they are. We think that people are sitting there just thinking about us, that they're talking about us. And I wish I could find the studies on how much time people actually spend thinking about you. And I promise you, it is less than 1% of their day. I think we have something like 45 thoughts per minute or something like that. I promise you there aren't that many thoughts that are about you. Most of our challenge
Starting point is 00:28:12 with that is we're thinking it. We're thinking that people are thinking it about us. Going back to my favorite Charles Horton Cooley quote, which you've heard me say a million times, but I'm going to say it again because it's my favorite. Charles Horton Cooley said, I'm not what I think I am. I'm not what you think I am. I am what I think you think I am. Right, let that blow your mind for a moment. He said, I am what I think you think I am. So we think, we think we know what other people
Starting point is 00:28:41 are thinking about us and we base our perception of ourself on that. So if I think you think I'm weak, then I feel weak. If I think you think I'm strong, then I feel strong. We want to get out of that inception, right? And the last point I wanted to make, seventh point, place value on the source based on their qualities and attributes. Don't miss place
Starting point is 00:29:06 don't overvalue someone's opinion without really Understanding where they're coming from and the place with which it's coming from is it coming from the place of wanting to invest in your growth? Is it coming from being a well-wisher? Where is it coming from? Recognizing that intention can make a huge difference. I wanna thank you for tuning in today.
Starting point is 00:29:29 I hope this episode helps you. I hope it sparks a conversation. I hope you share it with a friend. Remember, I am always rooting for you. I want you to win and I'm in your corner forever. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate you. Get excited for Monday and come back and go back through all the episodes and catch up on some of those too.
Starting point is 00:29:52 Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. If you enjoyed it, you'll love my chat with Adam Grant on why discomfort is the key to growth and the strategies for unlocking your hidden potential. If you know you want to be more and achieve more this year, go check it out right now. You set a goal today. You achieve it in six months. And then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief. There's no sense of meaning and purpose. You sort of expected it and you would have been disappointed if it didn't happen. Hi, I'm Laura VanderKam. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist and speaker. And I'm Sarah Hart Unger, a mother of three,
Starting point is 00:30:31 practicing physician, writer and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families. On the best of both worlds podcast each week, we share stories of how real women manage work, family and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long-term career goals, we want you to get the most out of life. Listen to Best of Both Worlds every Tuesday on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In talks with actors, doctors, stand-ups, and scientists, everyone. Is it love, religion, drugs, money?
Starting point is 00:31:06 Where do you find it? Craig Ferguson, in search of joy, the celebrations, the dances, science, poetry, laughter, and music of joy. Don't miss it. Joy with Craig Ferguson. Hear it now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm here to help.

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