On Purpose with Jay Shetty - 4 Stages of Life and Love & How to Establish Deeper Connection to Your Relationships

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

Today, I am going to share with you a conversation I had with Anna Martin from the Modern Love podcast. In this conversation, I share my journey and the life struggles I had after I left the ashram, learning more about love and dating, and the different types of love we can share to different people. You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon. Key Takeaways: 00:00 Intro 02:58 A chance encounter that totally changed Jay’s life forever 05:03 The two things we can learn from the monks and use in our daily life. 06:06 A peak at Jay’s Modern Love essay. 07:09 Every person you interact with is a mirror of your ego 08:49 Realizing that the path you’re in isn’t the real path for you 11:39 Returning to the real world and relearning how to date again 13:56 A peak at Jay’s essay about his first date with his wife Radhi 15:26 We often we underestimate how strongly our conditioning and wiring leads our life  17:48 Acknowledging your partner’s deep connection with family  18:25 The four stages of life and the different types of love we can share Like this show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps! Post a screenshot of you listening on Instagram & tag us so we can thank you personally! Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I am Yom Le Van Zant and I'll be your host for The R Spot. Each week listeners will call me live to discuss their relationship issues. Nothing will tear a relationship down faster than two people with no vision. There's y'all are just floppin' around like fish out of water. Mommy, daddy, your ex, I'll be talking about those things and so much more. Check out the R-Spawn on the iHeart video app Apple Podcasts or whatever you listen to podcasts. I am Dr. Romani and I am back with season 2 of my podcast Navigating Narcissism.

This season we dive deeper into highlighting red flags and spotting a narcissist before they spot you. Each week you'll hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing, and their process of healing. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The world of chocolate has been turned upside down. A very unusual situation. You saw the stacks of cash in an office.

Chocolate comes from the cacao tree, and recently, Variety's cacao, thought to have been lost centuries ago, were rediscovered in the Amazon. There is no chocolate on Earth like this. Now some chocolate makers are racing, deep into the jungle. Find the next game-changing chocolate, and I'm coming along. OK, that was a very large cracker down. deep into the jungle to find the next game-changing chocolate, and I'm coming along.

Listen to the obsessions, it's wild chocolate, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey everyone, I'm so excited because we're going to be adding a really special offering onto the back of my solo episodes on Fridays. It's my short daily series on calm, the daily J. And let me tell you, it's unlike anything else I'm doing. It's part story telling, part mindfulness, with a wide range of unique actionable insights, and it's also the only place you can meditate with me each and every day. I absolutely love all the wisdom we're sharing, all the lives we're changing, and whether

you want to improve your mindset, your habits, or your relationships, whether you want to work on developing more focus, presence or equanimity, building a daily J routine just seven minutes every day can make a huge impact. So make sure to check out the session at the end of the podcast and then subscribe to Calm for your daily dose of the daily J. Go to Calm.com forward slash J for 40% off your membership today. From the New York Times, which is so hard to not show off just to show up as you. The essay is written by relationship expert Jay Shetty, and this guy is kind of having a moment.

Please welcome to the late show, Jay Shetty. He will Smith as a big fan. I know Oprah's a big, big, big fan. Jay, you're amazing. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.

Jay Shetty. He's the go-to life coach for over 50 million followers. He's written books, he's on a world tour, and this is huge for me. He officiated the wedding of JLo and Ben Affleck. On his podcast... Third question is from Alana, thank you for your question. He answers burning love questions. I've been ghosted recently for the first time.

I feel like I did something wrong. Whoa, right? This is such a common one for so many people now. Why do we need closure? Jay's advice is tailored for the internet, but it's rooted in Hindu philosophy. Jay was a monk in India for three years in his 20s, and that time gave him insights into the way

that anyone can be more loving and more compassionate and more monk-like even if you've never been to an ashram. Today, we have Jay's Modern Love essay about dating like a monk, and how that led him to the love of his life. Jay Shetty, so excited to have you on the show. Welcome to Modern Love. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Welcome to Modern Love. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be here. So, Jay, you became a monk right after you graduated university,

which is not the traditional post-grad plan. How did you make the choice to dedicate yourself to this way of life? So, the first monk I ever met was at a college event. I used to go and hear speakers and athletes and musicians and thought leaders speak all the time. I went there expecting very little and thinking I didn't need anything that he was going to share. But I walked out of there with a new found direction. He was talking about how the greatest gift in life or the greatest purpose is to use our skills in the service of others.

Now when I look back, I realized that when I was 18, I'd met people who were beautiful, I'd met people who were rich, but I don't think I'd met anyone who is truly content and truly self-aware, and he was all of those things. And so I thought, well, I want those things, those things seem to be worthy of pursuit. So, you know, for the next three to four years, I still had relationships. I was still going out. I was still doing anything that any person does at college. But I would spend my summer and Christmas vacations, often visiting his monastery in India. Oh, wow, okay. And I'd spend the other half interning at financial companies and corporations in London,

thinking that that's what I was gonna do for work. And every time I'd come back from the monastery, I'd be full of joy and enthusiasm and energy. And every time I'd finish my internship, I think, I don't think that that's what I'm meant to be doing. So I allowed myself to live two separate lives because I was just trying to learn and understand. I was very young.

I even skipped my graduation ceremonies because I was already in the monastery. Yeah, in the actual. Was everyone in your life, how did they react? Did that choice? So a lot of my friends were really confused. They were just like, what are you doing? Like, you know, everyone was getting fancy jobs.

And my extended family and community was actually quite negative. They were saying things like, you're wasting your life. You're never going to get a job again. You're joining a cult. Wow. What would you tell them was so important about this way of life that you needed to go dedicate your existence to it? Well, the two things that I saw the monks in those summer and Christmas vacations, about this way of life that you needed to go dedicate your existence to it.

Well, the two things that I saw the monks in those summer and Christmas vacations, what they dedicated their life to was self-mastery and service. When I talk about self-mastery, I mean understanding ego, understanding envy, understanding what our emotions are trying to tell us and how to respond to them. And the other half was service that they were living their life trying to build sustainable villages or food distribution programs to help the poor or disadvantaged children. And I saw them living their life in a way trying to positively impact others. And I thought, that's what I want to dedicate my life to is figuring out what's going

on inside of me and then help people figuring out what's going on outside. You became a monk in your 20s when most people are going out and flirting and going at dates and your modern love essay kind of begins with you listing out what your priorities were when you were a monk. Can you read that part of your essay for me? Yes, absolutely. So monks are famously celibate, but celibacy doesn't just mean you're not having sex. It means you're not interacting with other people in a way that could be considered romantic. with other people in a way that could be considered romantic. The Sanskrit word for monk, Brahmacharya, means the right use of energy.

It's not that romance and sexual energy are wrong, but my practice teachers that we all have a limited amount of energy, which can be directed in multiple directions or one. And when energy is scattered, it's difficult to create momentum or impact. You mentioned that these monks that you saw, who you so admired and were learning from, have this method of self mastery. Can you tell me what you learned about that method of subduing the ego over those three years?

Yeah. So from a more general standpoint, I'd say that when you're living with a group of men in an ashram, every single person is a mirror for your ego because you're having so many interactions daily that trigger you. What do you mean triggered like you know you have a difficult conversation or something? Yeah it could it could be a difficult conversation it could be that someone didn't save food for you when you were late to lunch or breakfast right? It could be that you weren't selected to give a class this morning and someone else was and you start noticing very worldly responses to spiritual tasks.

And you realize that just being in an ashram doesn't remove your ego. Right. So I'd say that some of the practices that really helped were the practices of recognizing that everyone was a teacher and a student at the same time. This is something that was one of my favorite moments, actually, I was with my monk teacher in his 60s or 70s

at the time, and I'm a young new monk. And every morning, I would bow down to him, which was our custom. And he would bow down again back to me. And I would always think how special that was because there was this mutual respect. And I think that practice was really beautiful because you realized that you were never at the top and you were never at the bottom. Well, I want to talk about your decision to leave the ashram after three years. How did you make that call? So it was the most difficult decision I'd made at the time. Communal living was really tough on my body in terms of my health.

I would get sick more often in the ashram, you know, you're living in rooms from sometimes 30 to 100 people. And so there was a physical health component. And then there was this deeper realization that I loved what I was learning, but all I dreamt about and thought about was how could I share this with other people because I know so many of my friends are dealing with this, but they're not going to come here. But I really feel the desire to share it with them. And I want to do that. And so there were these two self-awareness pieces

which led me to realize I wasn't a monk. And I think that's almost like realizing that you told someone you loved them, but now you're falling out of love with them or you realize you're not in love with anymore. Like that's how it felt. Did you talk to your teachers at all when you were thinking about making this hard decision

to leave the ashram? I did, I did, and I was even scared to talk to them about it because I didn't want to feel judged or, you know, you're almost dropping out and you think, what are your teachers gonna say? Right. And my teacher said to me, when I told him that I think I should leave, he said to me that

some people go to college and some of them become professors. And he said some of them leave after their degree and they become entrepreneurs or they work at a company. And he said, which ones better? The people who become professors or the people who leave. And I said, neither. I mean, whatever's right for the person. And he said, well, that's the same here. He said, some people come and they graduate to become monks and they stay here for many years. And some take their training like you did and leave and go

on to do wonderful things. And he said, I think you'll be very happy if you're sharing what you've learned. And so you should do that. And so there was this really like understanding totally open view of, no, maybe it's not right for you anymore. It was right for you then and not anymore. And there's nothing wrong with that. Hmm. Even in your decision to leave them, they had compassion for you, which is really beautiful.

Exactly. That time was extremely tough for me. And it wasn't even a happy decision. And it was even more depressing because when I came back, everyone was like, oh, we told you so, oh, you came back, oh, you failed being a monk. And then, you know, I was applying for jobs and 40 companies rejected me without an interview. And I was thinking, oh, God. Because your resume had Ashrom for three years on it and nothing else.

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's like, what are your transferable skills sitting star silent and being still like no one wants to end their company. And so it was, it was just almost like maybe everyone was right. And maybe I did just waste three years. Yeah. Really, really difficult time. When you came back to London, you know, like in a science fiction movie or something when people are are frozen in those little pods and then they get released after thousands of years

and they're like, what is a cell phone? Was it like that for you? When you came back to London, did you not recognize anything around you? The hardest part is having to do small talk when you've done no small talk for three years. Right, you've not had a conversation about the latest TV show or the latest movie.

You're like, have you heard about Self Mastery? And they'd be like, what? That's exactly it. That must have been really awkward as you started to get back into dating, too. What was that part of it like, like building a social life, dating again? I didn't really think about dating overall as I kind of, I guess I was a bit scared, but I didn't even think about it that way, but I definitely like forgotten how to flirt. But when I started talking to my now wife because she was really good friends with my sister and she'd be over at our place and I'd be talking to her. I only really knew how to have really thoughtful, vulnerable, deep conversation.

I do remember that she was always very inquisitive. And so that was kind of helpful for me to just totally be myself. That kind of made it easy for me to be around her, I guess, because it wasn't someone that I had to be someone I wasn't around. It wasn't someone that I had to be someone I wasn't around. After the break, Jay Shetty goes on a date after leaving the ashram, and it does not go well. That's next. I'm Dr. Romani and I am back with season two of my podcast, Navigating Narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere and their toxic behavior in words can cause serious harm to your mental health.

In our first season, we heard from Eileen Charlotte, who was loved bomb by the Tinder Swindler. The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me, but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did. And that's even way worse than the money he took. But I am here to help. As a licensed psychologist and survivor

of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissist in your life. Each week you will hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing, and the process of their healing from these relationships. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1680s, a feisty, opera singer burned down an unnery and stole away with her secret lover.

In 1810, a pirate queen negotiated her cruiseway to total freedom, with all their loot. During World War II, a flirtatious gambling double agent helped keep D-Day a secret from the Germans. What do these stories have in common? They're all about real women who were left out of your history books. If you're tired of missing out, check out the Womanica podcast, a daily women's history podcast highlighting women you may not have heard of, but definitely should know about. I'm your host, Jenny Kaplan, and for me, diving into these stories is the best part of my

day. I learned something new about women from around the world and leave feeling amazed, inspired, and sometimes shocked. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet, we're constantly discovering new secrets. The depths of them, the variety of them, continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. When I realized this is not just happening to me, this is who and what I am.

I needed her to help me. Something was gnawing at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt somehow that there was a piece missing. Why not restart? Look at all the things that were going wrong. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you'll get your podcasts. So Jay, you've left the ashram, your back, living in London, trying to return to a normal life, you're working, you're starting to date, and eventually you go on a date with Rady who is now your wife.

Can you read the part of your essay where you talk about your first date with her? Absolutely. The night was going to cost me nearly a week's income and I wanted it to be perfect. We were at Lecandre Locatelli, one of the best restaurants in London. When we slid into a buttery leather booth, I winced. She was vegan and vegans aren't known to appreciate leather boots. But the lights were low, the ambiance beautiful, and I was still hoping to hear how impressed she was.

Do you think they have anything vegan on the menu? She said, sounding more worried than excited. They're famous for their fresh pasta, I said, trying to sound optimistic. But I had signed a stop for a special tasting menu and I didn't know how much choice she would have. Fresh pasta usually has eggs, she said, but we'll see. The service is amazing, right? I said, she smiled

politely, but she wasn't eating much. After dinner, I drove her home and dropped her off outside her apartment. She thanked me and waived a friendly goodbye, but the evening had fallen flat. Clearly, I had no idea what I was doing. Oh. I'm feeling for you, Jay, in this moment. Oh my gosh. Oh, I'm feeling for you, Jay, in this moment.

Oh, my gosh. Why do you think it was so easy for you to slip back into this sort of unmonk-like mode of trying to impress Rady? Like, what is it about dating someone that made you slip back to the old way of life? I think we're so unaware and we underestimate how strongly our conditioning and wiring leads

our life. Since I was young, I saw the dates that movies had in romcoms. I had done those dates with partners in my teens and college life. And so you assume that I just have to keep repeating this cycle until it goes wrong. And I think we don't realize how many cycles and how many patterns we live in until we start to break them. And it was only later that I figured out that my wife's favorite thing to do. She said to me, my ideal date would be going to Tesco's and walking down the bread aisle.

Tesco's is England's Whole Foods. And I think that she was speaking more from a kind of funny tongue-in-cheek in terms of, hey, I'm simple. I just want to walk down an aisle at a grocery store and pick something up to eat. We don't need to go to a fancy restaurant. And I thought that that was refreshing and beautiful because it showed me that she didn't value those things. How long did it take you to sort of relax into yourself with Rady? And what did it take to do that?

Well I think it was, I give the credit to her because she was so good at not trying to impress someone back. And I don't know, Rady's just a special human being. She's so different and weird in a good way. I dedicate my first book to her and I wrote the dedication to be to my wife who's more monk than I'll ever be. I just think that a lot of the qualities I learned during my time as a monk,

Radhi had them quite naturally. I look for monk qualities in everyone I meet and I believe everyone whether they've been a monk or not have them but And monk life really helps us consciously train them and build them and develop them as well Yeah, I'm struck by when you said that she was even though it was a bit of a joke like I just want to walk down the bread aisle that sort of simple Here a way of connecting does feel very monk like of her. I mean it sounds like you were picking up on connecting does feel very monk like of her. I mean, it sounds like you were picking up on these sort of monk like qualities in her even early on.

I think that is well, but I think another thing that just came to mind is, Rady would always say, oh, I want you to come and spend time with my family. My family is really important to me. I remember when I first started hanging out with her, her house, her family would often look at him, be like, are you really gonna wear that when he comes over

because she just being sweats or whatever? And she'd be like, are you really gonna wear that when he comes over because she'd just be in sweats or whatever? And she'd be like, yeah, that is what I'm gonna wear because that's what I would wear if I was at the house. Totally. And so she had this really honest, vulnerable, open way of being from the beginning. And I think that was definitely monk-like as well to just say, yeah, this is who I am

and this is how we'll be. And it's part of your practice now to try to develop or even hone those monk qualities in other people, correct? That's your books and your podcast that's sort of about sort of training folks who haven't spent years in Ashram to exhibit these qualities in their own life. Yeah, yeah, definitely. The literature that I studied during my time as a monk really laid out the four stages of life, almost as four classrooms of love. So the four stages of life are considered, you know, life in solitude or monk life

or single life. The second stage is relationship life or married life. the second stage is relationship life or married life. The third stage of life is almost reflecting and thinking about what you wanna do next. And then the fourth stage of life is loving the world. And the monks believe that the most important love story is the love story you have with anyone and everyone and with the world.

I think so often we've built up this idea in society that the most important love story is your romantic love story. So many people either go through life single and think that they're unworthy of love because they don't have a romantic partner or someone loses their romantic partner and then they feel like they don't have any love in their life. But the love of a brother or a sister, a mother, a father, like all of these loves count. Like we can't say that romantic love is above or below any of these.

Mm. Jay, of those four steps, what stage do you think you're in? I would say that I probably have a bit of a glimpse into all of them. Wow. Okay. Uh-huh. Probably a step two practicing to love my wife and the people around me. But I have a glimpse into step three and four because step three requires a lot of healing, a packed love within yourself.

And then stage four is where I want to live every day, which is I want to love everyone. And I want to share love with everyone on the planet. And I want to be able to spread love across the world. Well, you are on a world tour. So I'd say you're pretty far on your way to step forward. I guess. I think I'm definitely, that's why I said glimpses because when I'm with my teachers, I see how they live in that space and I see how I just have a little peak and that's good enough to prove to me it's real and so I feel grateful that there's more to learn though. I'm not upset I'm not there. I'm happy that I

know where I have to go. All I'm trying to give people is I don't want anyone to feel shame or guilt for how they currently live. I want you to feel clarity and curiosity about where you still have to go. to feel clarity and curiosity about where you still have to go. Hmm. Jay Shetty, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. It's so grateful and appreciate your time and energy. Modern Love is produced by Julia Botero, Christina Joesa, and Hans Puto. It's edited by Sarah Sarasin.

Our executive producer is Jen Poient. This episode was mixed by Mary and Luzano. Our show was recorded by Maddie Mas yellow. The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell, original music in this episode by Mary and Luzano, Pat McCusker, and Rowan Neymistow. Digital production by Mahima Choblani and Nel Galogue Lee. Special thanks to Jay Shetty's team, Nicole Berg, and Annie Dingold. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.

Me and Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. I'm Anna Martin, thanks for listening. I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. I just love that quote from Bruce Lee. And while it can feel really hard to overcome the limits placed on you by others, I'm here to remind you, their limits don't have to be yours. The next seven minutes are about your potential and defying expectations. potential and defying expectations. I'm Jay Shetty. Welcome to the daily J. Before we go any further, let's get centered with three deliberate breaths, inhaling and exhaling, filling your lungs with ease, emptying them with focus, embracing this moment and tuning in.

Today, I'd like to introduce you to one of the most exciting runners of the past 20 years. No, I'm not talking about Usain Bolt or Alice in Felix. I'm talking about Fouge's Singh, the world's oldest marathoner. Now Fouge was not born with a traditional athletic build. In fact, his legs were so skinny and weak that he couldn't walk at all until age 5. Growing up in a farming village in India, other kids would tease him. They called him Dunder, which is Punjabi for stick. Eventually, Fouja grew fit and healthy. He got married, had six children and a farm

of his own. It was a good life, not without its challenges, but one that was full and fulfilling. Then, in his mid 80s, Fouji suffered the loss of his middle son, Kuldit. His wife had passed away a few years earlier, and the rest of his children son, Kuldip. His wife had passed away a few years earlier and the rest of his children had longer go left India. Foudja felt lonely and lost, so he moved to England to live with some of his remaining family. He started running with fellow Punjabi expats, and he found that it helped him cope with his grief. It gave him purpose. And in fact, he was good at it, really good for his age. He had stayed in shape with his lifelong farm work, and when he challenged other seniors, he would win. Then, one day, he saw a marathon on TV. He didn't know exactly what the race was, but he wanted to compete.

Even though Fauja enjoyed running, it seemed like a stretch to prepare for a 26-mile trek. But Fauja was determined. He found a coach to train him, and several months later, he finished the London marathon in just under seven hours. Since then, he has made global headlines, running and astonishing eight more marathons. He's also broken several world records, including being the first 100-year-old to finish a marathon.

Fouge's last competitive race was a 10k in 2013, just before he turned 102. He's now retired, but he still runs for fun at the age of 111. All my life, Fouge once said, people set limitations on me. They said I would never walk. They said I would never farm. They certainly never thought I would set records with my running.

No matter what people said, I always believed in myself. I never gave up. Fouge's story is remarkable because he didn't let the expectations of others determine his path or slow him down, despite the supposed barriers in his way. Maybe you can relate to that. Maybe there's something you want to do, but people keep saying you can't, or you've been teased for something that's supposed to hold you back. Whatever it may be, don't let outside opinions prevent you from pursuing your passions or chasing your dreams. Don't let others define what your life looks like. Remember, those are their limits, not yours. And as our time today winds down, let's meditate on that.

So get comfortable wherever you are, allowing your body and mind to relax into the present. See if you can adopt a compassionate attitude here, embracing yourself and your experience. Whatever this practice brings, this is a moment of rest. You don't have to do anything or be anywhere. your mind busy, or your body restless, that's okay. There's nothing you need to do with your thoughts or emotions. Just observe that they exist and see if you can gently let them be. Allow yourself to feel whatever you're feeling right now. Meditation is a beautiful opportunity to just be aware of your present experience.

And now let's open this up. Bring to mind an interest that you might like to pursue, but your hesitant, wondering if time has passed you by. Can you open yourself up to the possibility that it's not actually too late? What's one step you could take towards that interest? take toward that interest. I'm looking forward to seeing what you're going to do next. Thanks for being here today. I'd love you to share this message with someone who could use it.

And I'll see you tomorrow. I'm Jay Shetty. And on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Lewis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw, real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours.

Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions. Like, can we create new senses for humans?

So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Our 20s often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time?

I'm Jemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week, we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. you