On Purpose with Jay Shetty - 7 Early Signs of Burnout & 7 Simple and Practical Ways to Heal and Recover
Episode Date: August 20, 2021One of the biggest challenges people face in their adult life is burnout. When you’re burned out, you become less effective and nonfunctional in many aspects of your life. You begin to lose interest... in the things you normally love doing. Not many of us recognize this as burnout. Many will brush it off as feeling tired or getting exhausted from doing too much too fast. What we don’t realize is we are already burned out and we don’t take action to get out of it because we mistake it for something else. In this episode of On Purpose, Jay Shetty talks about the early signs of burnout to watch for and how to help yourself recover exhaustion and fatigue. Sama is coming soon! Go to samatea.com/onurpose to find out more! Key Takeaways: 00:00 Intro 01:44 Most of us wait too long to deal with burnout 04:18 Burnout Phase #1: The honeymoon phase 06:26 Burnout Phase #2: The onset of stress 07:31 Burnout Phase #3: Chronic stress 08:34 Burnout Phase #4: The burnout itself 08:55 Burnout Phase #5: Habitual burnout 10:37 Sign #1: Fatigue over the things you use to find easy 15:03 Sign #2: Poor sleeping habits make you tired 19:37 Sign #3: Brain fog blurs what you see 22:49 Sign #4: Low creativity 24:19 Sign #5: Agitated by small things 25:54 Sign #6: Avoid being around people 27:08 Sign #7: Being indecisive Like this show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps! Post a screenshot of you listening on Instagram & tag us so we can thank you personally! Achieve success in every area of your life with Jay Shetty’s Genius Community. Join over 10,000 members taking their holistic well-being to the next level today, at https://shetty.cc/OnPurposeGeniusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet.
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You know, we've all been cooped up.
You end up watching a show, you're binge watching a show, it's now 1247 and you're on
episode six of season 10 and that's just become your habit.
Hey everyone, welcome back to on purpose the number one health podcast in the world thanks to each and every single one of you. I want to take a moment as always to just pause and say thank you.
I am so grateful for the love you gave to the Alexis
Ren podcast, the Matthew Hussie podcast. They were two incredible conversations and you
turned up. You've made us one of the most globally, not just nationally, but globally, top-ranked
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without you telling your friends, your family.
I bump into you all the time and I'll hear people say,
my family just told me about your podcast,
my friend just told me about your podcast.
And I even hear people still say to this day,
yeah, I didn't know you had a podcast.
I'm like, wow, it's amazing how much it matters
that you tell people and you share this.
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I see you engaging.
I see you starting conversations.
And I hope you see me trying to share as many of your posts about the podcast as possible.
I go through Instagram and Twitter regularly to see what you're learning and what you're
feeling.
And I love seeing all the incredible things that come out of that.
Now, today I wanted to talk about the seven early signs of burnout and seven simple and
practical ways to heal and recover.
And what really prompted this for me is I started to realize that most of us wait too
long to deal with burnout.
We wait for too much to go wrong to deal with burnout.
We wait till things are really difficult
and really challenging before we truly respond to burnout.
And I want to stop that culture.
I want to end that culture where we wait till things
are so difficult and I've seen people.
I've worked with people, I've experienced people
crawling their way back to their health,
which is possible by the way.
It is always possible.
But why make it that hard for yourself?
And I've realized that in my life,
I've been at that point as well.
I've experienced complete burnout. Where I was in bed for 14 hours a day, I was completely
energy less. I couldn't even have proper eye contact with someone. And I was many, many years
ago now. But now, when I think about it, I've noticed that I've got good at noticing
early signs of burnout.
And that's what I wanna help you with today.
It's what are those early signs?
What are those signs where you're not even convinced
you're burnout, you just feel, oh, it's nothing.
I'm fine.
How many of you right now are listening to this?
Going, Jay, I'm fine.
I don't even if I need this episode,
I'm not even sure this is right for me while I promise you
That this episode is going to be so useful even if you don't feel burnt out because that's the point
We wait too long. We wait till too much is wrong to actually make a change
Now I was reading some really interesting studies and one particular one by Winona State University on burnout, they said that they found that the average professional experiences burnout by the age of 32. Now, whether
you're younger than 32, and I know a lot of you are, and whether you're older than 32, the point is that the average professional is going to
experience it by 832.
So whether you're beyond that age or whether you're before that age, know that you've either
experienced it, obviously you already know that or you're someone that is about to experience
it as well.
And therefore, this is going to be really powerful.
Now we're known as state university and the calmer.com came up with what they call the five phases
of burnout.
So I want to share this from their research because I think they're really important.
They said that the first stage of burnout is the honeymoon phase.
And you're thinking, how does that make any sense?
Like how does that resonate?
Well they're actually saying that sometimes you start a new job,
you start a new task, you start your own company,
and you feel this adrenaline, you feel like you're thriving,
you feel a sense of energy.
And what ends up happening is that we create
they say coping strategies, right?
So even if there are stresses and tensions,
you're almost like, oh, I can deal with this,
I've got all these new colleagues, I'm in this new office, I'm in this new role, I'm tensions, you're almost like, oh, I can deal with this. I've got all these new colleagues.
I'm in this new office.
I'm in this new role.
I'm fine.
I'll be okay.
I've done this before.
And you focus on your job.
You focus on the task.
You're optimistic.
And you have high productivity levels.
And this is beautiful, by the way, like I love hearing that human resilience is strong
that we start this way. And I would encourage
you to start this way. The problem is, our human mind does something weird where we convince
us that if we start this way, it's going to end that way if we keep doing the same thing.
So we think if we keep doing the same thing over and over again, that we're going to get
the same result. That's
not always true, especially when it relates to our energy, when it relates to burnout, because
there's a beautiful statement by Abraham Lincoln and he goes something like this.
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe.
and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe.
Notice the difference there. He's focused on sharpening the axe.
He knows that if his tools are sharper,
he'll be able to cut down more trees
and cut them down quick.
I mean, if you wanted to cut down trees at all,
but you get the point.
Now, when we say, oh, I've just started a new thing,
I feel good, it's gonna last forever.
What happens is you're not sharpening the axe.
You're not sharpening the saw. And when you forget to sharpen the axe and sharpen the saw, that's the
honeymoon phase because you keep doing the same thing over and over again. And now you're
slowly going downhill rather than uphill. So that's phase one, according to the study.
The second stage they say is called the onset of stress, right? The burnout starts,
you get an awareness of it happening on some days more than others, and you start to feel like
your optimism may be kind of going down. You start to feel those early anxieties, you start to
feel fatigue. Maybe you're forgetful. A lot of people for them burnout is the experience of
forgetfulness. They forget to do a task.
They forget a particular detail in a meeting or a presentation.
Maybe their productivity is starting to drop.
So that's the second stage.
Now, usually at this stage, most people try and muscle through.
Right? We say, it's okay.
I can deal with this.
I've still got this.
I can manage.
Maybe I'll sleep in a bit, maybe it's just,
you know, maybe, you know, I'll be fine, I'll be fine, right?
And we almost sometimes come up with excuses
where we actually stop ourselves from taking it seriously.
Now, what ends up happening is that while this escalates
in the background and it can accelerate quite fast,
it leads to what they call the third stage, which is chronic stress.
And this, they say, is marked by a change in your stress levels.
Right?
So, instead of feeling motivated and enthusiastic, you're now feeling that chronic exhaustion.
Now, if you've ever felt this, you know what I'm talking about.
I've experienced this before.
I literally was in bed for 14 hours a day.
I literally didn't feel like getting out of bed.
This is now about eight years ago.
And no matter how much I ate,
no matter how much water I drank,
I just didn't feel good, right?
I didn't feel the energy that I needed and wanted to have.
You may feel out of control, you may feel pressured,
you may feel threatened or put in a control, you may feel pressured, you may feel threatened
or put in a corner, you may start seeing physical illness. I often find that when we don't
process a lot of this stuff mentally, it can come up physically, you get the flu, you
get a cold, you have a worn down immune system, you're starting to really feel the negative
effects. And hopefully, if you haven't already by this time,
this is where you turn to for help,
but stage four, as they say, is burnout itself.
And this is where the symptoms become critical.
It starts affecting your behavior.
You start feeling that chronic headache,
chronic stomach, or gut problems as well.
You might start to feel things like self-doubt.
You may have this feeling of emptiness inside.
And then finally, stage five, they say, is habitual burnout, right?
This is the repetitive pattern, the repetitive system, and now you start to experience chronic
sadness, maybe even depression.
So if you're someone who's experienced
any of those five stages,
and what I'd love for you to do right now,
is I'd love for you to map out which stage you think you're in.
So are you in the honeymoon phase?
Are you in the onset of stress?
Are you at chronic stress?
Are you at burnout?
Or are you at habitual burnout?
Because I want you to be really, really aware,
and based on your own diagnosis of yourself, I want you to speak to a friend, a therapist, a coach, a doctor, explain to them what you're
going through right now because it just saves you from so much more hassle and stress in the future.
There are so many times in my life where I've said, I'm fine, it's going to be okay and then you
live to regret that in the future. I don't want you to feel that way and I don't want anyone in
your life to feel that way.
Maybe you're listening to this
because you care about someone who's going through this.
So, the first thing I want you to do
is write down which phase you're in.
I'll say them again, honeymoon phase,
onset of stress, chronic stress, burnout,
and habitual burnout.
And if you wanna see the real symptoms,
head over to thisiscoma.com
and type in five stages of burnout. And you will find this breakdown of the Winona State
University research. So what I'm going to share with you in this podcast today are some
of those early signs and what you can do for each one of them. So these are practices that
I've created for the early signs that I often feel. The reason that I've focused on the early signs is so
that you can be truly proactive. So the first sign is of course fatigue. You're
starting to feel tired at things that you used to find easy. For me, I start to
notice this when I'm playing tennis or when I'm on a hike. And the way to notice
this is not just how you feel overall, it's where did you use to feel energized until.
So I know when I play tennis for an hour, I know that the first 30 minutes, I'm full
of energy and the second 30 minutes I'm slightly lower. Now, if I went to tennis one day and
I found only at 15 minutes of energy, that would show me that I'm feeling greater fatigue.
Right. So you want to make it measurable. You want to make it something you know. For found only at 15 minutes of energy, that would show me that I'm feeling greater fatigue.
Right, so you want to make it measurable,
you want to make it something you know.
For example, I go on a hike in the mornings
that I don't play tennis,
it's about 45 minutes to hike that I do.
And I know that there's a specific elevation,
a couple of times that if I find that easy,
I know I'm feeling good, if I find it hard,
I know that I'm feeling greater level of fatigue.
So, fatigue isn't just something like,
oh, today I feel tired, because you may feel tired
one day, and that's totally normal.
But fatigue is truly experienced when you're doing
the same thing as you usually do, and you feel more tired.
So, maybe you're feeling more tired by 3 PM
than you usually on an average day,
and that pattern seems to last for the whole week.
We all have off days, we all have days that we don't feel quite right. you usually on an average day, and that pattern seems to last for the whole week.
We all have off days, we all have days that we don't feel quite right.
You're spotting a pattern.
That's your focus.
You're really trying to find a pattern.
Now, I want to share with you some of the things that I've been doing.
One of the things I recently realized, which was really big news to me, is I started to
realize that often when we feel fatigue, we think a
lot of it's mental. We think a lot of it is because of our mind. Now, it may be, but what
I recently discovered is that a lot of it was based on my vitamin D levels and vitamin
D is something you can get tested for. I highly recommend getting checked out for it, but
I didn't realize what a big impact
vitamin D had on my energy levels.
So I started taking the my kind organic vitamin D3 spray.
And I literally, all I have to do is take it out once a day
and spray it three times onto my tongue
and it's vegan, which is great.
It's organic as well.
And it's a great little thing that you can carry around.
If you need to carry around,
or you can keep it in your desk,
and all I have to do is spray it once a day.
And focusing on my vitamin D level
has led me not only to judge myself less,
and I think that was such a big thing
that I was judging myself.
I was like, oh, maybe I'm getting lazier.
Maybe I don't love what I do anymore.
Maybe I'm fatigued because I'm overworking,
and I started to realize it wasn't because I was overworking,
because I'd even slowed down.
I was working maybe a bit less.
I was finishing earlier, and I was still feeling tired,
and I realized that that fatigue was coming
from a lack of vitamin D.
And I stopped judging myself.
I went and got the spray, I started taking it, and I'm starting
to feel so much better.
And what I found is that in those early stages of burnout, what we usually do is in those
low states of energy, you end up resorting to carbs or sugar, right?
It's so easy to reach for a sugary item,
a carb item, a fat item to find that energy
and you feel that fuel.
You experience that fuel in the beginning in that moment,
but we all know that wears off.
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Hi, I'm David Eagleman.
I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart.
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Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagelman on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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I'm journalist and I'm Morton in my podcast City of the Rails.
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The other thing that I found super, super powerful, honestly, is the element electrolytes.
They're salts, natural salts that create an amazing impact on your body, especially to rehydrate
faster, straight after a workout.
So I used to find that after a workout or after a hike, that's when I'd feel really drained
and obviously I'd want to shower, to feel fresh, but also my body needed to revitalize. And again, it's so easy to reach for a protein bar,
packed with sugar or another type of cereal bar. And I used to think these bars were all
healthy and then you start looking at what's really inside of them. And I started to take
the element electrolytes and they've been so powerful for me. So I wanted to let you know that if you're struggling with fatigue, of course, there are
great tips on other areas.
But for me, doing these practical things, because maybe you're in a busy period and you can't
slow down, maybe you're just going through a really, really tough time now and you know
that you need something that's going to help you through.
So that's fatigue.
The second one I want to focus on,
which is linked to that, is poor sleep.
So maybe you're feeling tired
because you're not getting enough sleep.
Now looking at the research,
research suggests that one in three people
don't get good enough sleep.
And when you really start looking at the stats,
you find that about 30% of the US said they usually
get less than seven hours of sleep a night.
And we know that seven to nine is the recommended amount.
Now, I don't want you to judge yourself
or feel pressure that you don't get that.
I want to help you get more good quality sleep.
And I can find myself, you can get into that pattern of,
you know, revolving cooped up, you end up watching a show, your binge watching a show, it's now 1247 and you're on episode six of season 10.
And that's just become your habit, right? That's just become your habit.
And on top of that, this is something people miss. It's not just that you're up.
This is something people miss. It's not just that you're up.
It's that what you're watching
is pumping cliffhanger chemicals.
I call them cliffhanger chemicals
because the cliffhanger in the show
is pumping that anxiety, that excitement,
that confusion, that intrigue, that curiosity into your body.
So now when you're trying to sleep,
your mind's activated, you're chemically activated
because now you're on a cliffhanger.
So not only are you getting no sleep,
if you do get some sleep, you're getting poor quality sleep
because it's plagued with anxiety.
It's plagued with that nervousness of,
or what's gonna happen to that character next?
Are they gonna survive?
Are they gonna save that person?
All of these shows are creating some anxiety because we thrive off of that.
We want to know what happens next.
So, when I've been speaking to experts on the podcast and doing my own research, I learned
recently from Ben Greenfield that pink noise, and you can search this online to find it,
pink noise is a really healthy way
to calm yourself and get a good night's sleep. I find listening to meditative music, I find
that making sure there are a few things here that I want to talk about. So one thing is
sleep temperature. I've been finding that sleeping between 65 to 67 is really good for me.
Now yours may be different, but be careful if you're sleeping in too much heat.
Most of us are probably sleeping at 70 or more,
and you really wanna get into that 65 to 67 bracket.
Now you may have a air purifier,
which is a great idea,
and if you don't have one,
I highly recommend getting a air purifier
because maybe the air is congested,
maybe the air is not flowing.
Another way maybe that you're not putting on sleep clothes, you're just in the clothes
you've been wearing all day, you haven't put on a uniform almost to go to sleep to feel
that comfort in your bed.
Another reason maybe that you're doing too much in your bed, you're always in your bed working,
eating and sleeping and now you've confused the energy of this space you're in.
The reason why I'm throwing so many things at you is I want you to also recognize that
sometimes it's not just inside of us, it's what's happening around us.
I think for people who don't sleep so often we judge ourselves when we think, oh my gosh,
like I'm just, I'm struggling and I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that right.
And I wish I slept earlier and I wish I woke up earlier
and were pressurizing ourselves,
but actually it could be an external environment.
Have you got blinds?
Have you got curtains?
A lot of people are sleeping.
We're not only devices in the room with lights,
but having light creeping in through one of the windows,
whether it's a street light or whatever it may be.
So I want you to think about how you can improve your sleep this week.
If your experiencing burnout sleep can be the most healing and one of the most practical
ways of getting yourself on the road to recovery and healing quicker.
And I want you to think about what are the areas of your sleep that you haven't given
our attention to.
Forcing yourself to try and go to sleep,
we know doesn't work.
What can you change in your environment?
It may be that you have a relaxing cup of tea
before you go to bed.
It may be that you spray a set and scent
that relaxes you and helps you breathe.
I really believe practicing really good breathing techniques
before bed is powerful.
The four eight method works really well.
Breathe in for a count of four and exhale for eight.
When you exhale for longer than you inhale,
you really slow down your body, you slow down your mind.
The third early sign of burnout is brain fog.
How many of you wake up and you just feel this fogginess is almost
like looking out and see mist or fog in the air. You can no longer clearly see whatever
you were able to see before. And for me, and I mentioned this in the last one, but a cup
of tea has been my biggest antidote for brain fog. And usually it might be a lemongrass ginger or it could be a jasmine peach.
I find that tea has been a really powerful way of really clearing my mind and I find everything
from the scent to the warmth, to the taste, to the color, becomes a really mindful process.
So as you know, Radhi and I have launched our own summer teas because we found that when I wake up in the morning
and I look at the color of the tea, I inhale it, I feel it's
warmth, and then I drink it, I find that it is so purifying for
brain fog for the search for clarity. And again, it's simple,
it's practical. A lot of us wake up this way. And again, we
start criticizing ourselves,
we think we're stupid, we think we're not smart enough, but a simple antidote.
Another thing that I want to share with you that has been huge for me, specifically with
BrainFog. And it's amazing because so we do this on Saturday, me and Rady. And on Friday night,
I'll think to myself, I don't want to go. And that's partly that burnout where you start going,
I don't want to go out. I don't want to do that.
I just want to be lazy.
I just want to sit in bed.
That's when I'll feel better.
Right?
How many of you experienced that?
When you were burnt out, you naturally choose to just sit around
thinking that that's making you better,
but it's not energizing you.
How many of you slept longer but felt de-energized?
How many of you have sat around in your home all day
but felt more tired and less energetic?
Those are early signs of burnout.
And so in that situation, on Saturday, my wife and I have been going, Radhya and I have
been going to do a cold plunge and sauna cycle.
So what's recommended is that you're spending about 10 to 15 minutes in a sauna and you spend
three to seven minutes in a cold plans based on what you can do.
Now, the first time I heard this, I was like three to seven minutes in a cold plan, sounds crazy.
And I remember doing it for three minutes the first time I got in, it was really tough.
I found it really painful. And the second time I did it, I only lost the 30 seconds the first time
I tried it. And then I built up again and now I've really built up where I'm able to do that consistently.
And what I love about this is, before I get in the cold, I don't want to get in, I'm not
sure it's going to work.
And I promise you, as soon as I get out of that cold plunge, I feel like the most alert,
most clear, most cleanse person ever.
It's truly a remarkable feeling.
And I've started doing it weekly.
I'm thinking of starting to do it three times a week,
if not more.
And so I really highly recommend going
and having an experience of doing a cold plunger.
It may sound like the last thing you wanna do,
but if you're feeling that brain fog,
and not just for that, I mean, doing a cold plunger
is incredible for your body in so many ways,
there's so much recess to suggest why it's so powerful.
Okay.
Early sign and indicator number four of burnout is low creativity.
How many of you are struggling to be creative?
How many of you are struggling to feel inspired?
How many of you can't remember the last time you had a great idea or a unique idea or
some sort of breakthrough?
I know that I feel this way and when I start feeling this way, I know that I need to
change something because I love what I do, I love what I get to do.
And that's why all of these themes and I hope you're enjoying these last few episodes,
I'm really trying to speak from personal experience of what I'm struggling with too.
I value myself because of how creative I can be and how relevant my research is and
how much work I can do to serve you in these episodes.
And when I'm sitting there sometimes, I'm like, I don't know what I want to talk about
this week.
I'm like, oh, well, what's going on here?
Why am I feeling that way?
And I figured out that when I feel that way, it's so important for me to take the next
Saturday completely off.
Take the day off to read, to listen, to think, to walk, to just disconnect.
That is what I choose to do.
I make sure that the next day I can get off, as soon as I can,
I'm going to take it off completely to have a switchoff day.
I'm going to take it off completely to have a switch off day, turn myself off, truly disconnect and give myself space to read, think, absorb.
Now I'm giving you insights into particular signs of burnout, which may work for you.
The next one is agitated by small things.
Oh, I know about this one. The amount of times I've
been agitated at Rathi because I'm burnt out. And now every little thing makes me angry
or agitated. How many of you have experienced that? And you don't know it's because you're
burnt out. You think it's because the person's annoying you or they're doing something
annoying, but usually I'd find it cute or entertaining.
And all of a sudden I'm finding it annoying
and agitating and frustrating
because I've got an early sign of burnout.
In that scenario, I realize I need a change of environment.
I may change where I work from, I may change the room,
I may work on a different desk.
I find that allowing myself to break
the monotonous routine really truly helps.
The other thing that really helps me with that is making less decisions that week.
I feel like sometimes we pressurize ourselves to make decisions that we don't need to make.
And I find that when I'm feeling agitated, I make bad decisions, I make hasty decisions.
And so those are the times that I definitely avoid making decisions.
And by the way, there is no decision that needs to be done today. You may even think it is, but this
is why the last step, behavior pattern number five is important, is communicate. If I'm
feeling burnout, I'll say to Rady, you know what, I'm just feeling really burnout right now
and so anything I've react with you, just know that it's not me. I'm just going through
some stuff and maybe if you really want my attention just Ask me later on to say Jay I really need to talk to you about this and can we talk about it?
And I find that communicating that is such a superpower
now
Sign number seven is we want to avoid people
We want to avoid people. How many of you have started feeling like, I don't want to be around anyone.
I need to preserve my energy.
I used to say that a lot.
And I started to realize that wasn't me.
I love being around people.
And I'm an introvert, but I love it
and enjoy people's company.
But I was avoiding it because I was feeling early signs
of burnout.
And I realized in that scenario,
I did have to avoid people, but I had to do something
more important.
I had to sleep earlier and I had to spend time with small groups where I did have to avoid people, but I had to do something more important. I had to sleep earlier,
and I had to spend time with small groups
where I could learn to switch off.
One of the craziest things is a lot of a spend time
with people that we think we have to be on around,
and that's what makes us drained.
Whereas I started to realize that in my really close group
of friends, I didn't have to be on.
You shouldn't have to be on, like, you have to be on at work.
You shouldn't have to be on. You shouldn't have to be on like you have to be on at work. You shouldn't have to be on like you're on if you do a career that's in the limelight
or on stage or performance based, right? You have to be surrounded by a group of people that you're
not on around. And that's okay, right? That's okay. So sleeping early and starting with small
groups and surrounding yourself by people
you don't need to be on around
is a really powerful way to overcome that.
And the seventh and final early sign of burnout
that I wanted to cover is indecision.
Maybe you're just being indecisive,
you're not making a choice and it's going on and on and on.
In those stages of burnout,
I want you to see a mentor or a coach, whether it's a podcast, whether it's going on and on and on. In those stages of burnout, I want you to see
a mentor or a coach, whether it's a podcast, whether it's a person, you know, you need
someone in your life who doesn't answer the questions for you, who doesn't make your
decisions for you, but they help you with these challenges. Too many of us are trying to
solve everything on our own and deal with everything on our own. We need someone who
can look at us and say,
I think you deserve to take a break. We almost need to hear it from someone else sometimes.
So those are the seven early signs of burnout and the seven simple and practical ways to help you heal and recover faster. I hope that you can apply these. I hope you're going to monitor and
navigate more closely and I hope you're you can pass this on to a friend.
Thank you for listening to On Purpose.
I'll see you again next week
for some more incredible episodes and conversations.
Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. What if you could tell the whole truth about your life, including all those tender invisible
things we don't usually talk about?
I'm Megan Devine.
Host of the podcast, it's okay that you're not okay.
Look, everyone's at least a little bit not okay these days, and all those things we don't
usually talk about, maybe we should.
This season, I'm joined by Stellar, Gas like Abromata, Rachel Cargol and so many more.
It's okay that you're not okay.
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Hey, it's Debbie Brown, host of the Deeply Well Podcast, where we hold conscious conversations
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Deeply well is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal,
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Namaste.
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25 years ago, I was homeless and addicted to heroin.
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and yet I'm still striving to be better.
Join me on this journey.
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