On Purpose with Jay Shetty - 7 Ways to Break Bad Habits & Let Go of Things That No Longer Serve You

Episode Date: January 21, 2022

You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive sho...w where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon.What is pattern interruption? It is the core value to successfully break a bad habit. To successfully embrace change, you need to change the usual. You need to alter your routine. You need to adjust the patterns you are so used to following and replace it with a new one. In truth, you can’t remove something without replacing it with something better. In this episode, Jay Shetty shares simple yet doable ways to gradually break free from unwanted habits to form new and meaningful ones.  Try our tea & become a member of our tea club today! https://samatea.com/onpurpose. Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/Key Takeaways:00:00 Intro01:10 How do we break habits?01:56 Step #1: Realize it did serve you at one point06:54 Step #2: Realize what’s motivating you10:15 Step #3: Know every single trigger13:13 Step #4: Remove the triggers that don’t need to be in close proximity15:28 Step #5: Create a system for each trigger you can’t remove16:57 Step #6: Having someone you call just when you’re about to mess up18:11 Step #7: Finding replacementsLike this show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps! Post a screenshot of you listening on Instagram & tag us so we can thank you personally!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Louis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. What if you could tell the whole truth about your life, including all those tender and visible things we don't usually talk about?
Starting point is 00:00:37 I'm Megan Devine. Host of the podcast, it's okay that you're not okay. Look everyone's at least a little bit not okay these days, and all those things we don't usually talk about, maybe we should. This season, I'm joined by stellar guests like Abbermote, Rachel Cargol, and so many more. It's okay that you're not okay. New episodes each and every Monday, available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. I am Jan Levan Zant, and I'll be your host for The R-Spot.
Starting point is 00:01:05 Each week listeners will call me live to discuss their relationship issues. Nothing will tear a relationship down faster than two people with no vision. There's y'all are just floppin' around like fish out of water. Mommy, daddy, your ex, I'll be talking about those things and so much more. Check out the R-Spawn on the iHeart video app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You have to truly stop putting yourself in vulnerable positions, most of us put ourselves in vulnerable positions, and then we freak out as to why we don't have enough willpower.
Starting point is 00:01:42 You're relying so much on willpower when you've been attracted or addicted or attached to that thing, whatever it is for so long, that you're actually stressing yourself out. You're actually creating more fatigue in your mind and body by trying to resist something that you're putting so close. Hey, hey, hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. I am so, so excited for today's session. It has been amazing to see the love that you've been showing the podcast over the first few weeks of the year.
Starting point is 00:02:18 It's been incredible to see the engagement, to see how many of you are listening, to see what you're taking away. I am truly, truly blown away by your dedication and commitment to the podcast. I could sit here and read reviews all day and I just want you to know that I appreciate them. They mean the world to me. Please keep leaving your name at the end of them so that I can shout you out in these episodes as well. And I'm so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love is out. And I cannot wait to share with you. I am so, so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book. I read
Starting point is 00:02:58 the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eight rules of love.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour. Love rules. Go to jsheddytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year. But today I want to talk to you about how do we break habits? How do we end habits that we no longer need that no longer serve us in our life? We all have things in our life
Starting point is 00:03:42 that we've been doing for a long, long time. We have things that have been in our life. We all have things in our life that we've been doing for a long, long time. We have things that have been in our life maybe for a year. We have some things that have been in our lives for a decade. And then there are other things that have maybe crept in in the last few months. But how do you let go of a bad habit you no longer need and no longer serves you? The first thing I'm about to say might surprise you, but it's a really, really interesting thing. The first step to letting go of a bad habit is realizing that it did serve you at one point for a mindset that you currently have.
Starting point is 00:04:27 Let me give you an example. Maybe I'm eating unhealthy, hypothetically speaking. When I realized that at one point that served my mindset, I didn't care about my health, I didn't mind that I was unhealthy, I didn't mind that I was damaging my health, and that served that mindset. Let me accept it. Rather than just making it negative and toxic and trying to push it away. And you know, when you're pushing something,
Starting point is 00:04:54 you're still holding on to it. Right. If you haven't pushed something away, your hand is still on it. It is still connected to you. Whereas when you just open your hand and you let it fall out, you gracefully and gently let it go. And I find this really fascinating that when we don't want something, we almost want to push it, force it out of our lives. We don't know how to just gently open up and let go. And the way you do that with a habit is you accept this served a mindset that I once had. You accept that this did serve me at one point in time. It no longer serves me. It's not useless, it's not the worst, it's not something you hate, it's not something
Starting point is 00:05:43 you dislike, it's something something you hate, it's not something you dislike, it's something that no longer serves you. There's a beautiful verse in the Bhagavad Gita, this is the book that I reference a lot in, think like a monk, and a book that I studied during my time as a monk, and it talks about how attachment and aversion are two sides of the same coin. And this is a really, really fascinating concept that when we're attached to something, when you love eating unhealthy, the natural change now is you now present yourself as being averse to it. You want to hate it. You want to push it away. But that is still an attachment.
Starting point is 00:06:18 It still keeps you connected to that idea. It still keeps you in touching distance, it still keeps it in your hand. So first accept, this no longer serves me, I'm letting it go. When you want to break a habit, the first thing you have to accept is that this did serve me, it no longer serves me, and I'm letting it go. I'm not forcing it away. I'm not pushing it away. I'm not trying to break it. Even that language that we use, I have to break this habit. We don't have to break it. We have to just let it go. We have to just move on. We have to let it naturally devolve and dissolve from our life. We don't wanna break it in the process. And I was having a really beautiful conversation with a friend this morning,
Starting point is 00:07:10 and we were talking about how when you do things in an intentional way, even when you sever something or cut something, it actually brings you closer. I had to have a really difficult conversation with a team member recently. And I had to share with them some of their performance that I wasn't happy with. But because I also want to help people find their potential
Starting point is 00:07:37 and live their purpose and perform at a high level and also love humans and want people to feel good and feel happy, I tried my best to notice something in them that I believed was unique and their greatest gift. So whilst I was giving them honest, transparent feedback, I also wanted to notice the greatness that they have within them. And I was inspired to share that with them as well. And even though I'd have to give them all of this tough feedback,
Starting point is 00:08:06 we actually became closer through that conversation. Now, that's remarkable that you could actually break something or end something in a way that it may seem, but it actually has a new beginning and that's how spiritual intentions work. That's the power of living an intentional conscious life that even when you are cutting a bad habit, you're actually creating a positive relationship with yourself and creating a better relationship with that habit. Often the reason why we swing
Starting point is 00:08:38 in pendulum between attachment and aversion is because we never truly let go and disconnect. We go from being attached to something, to being averse to it, to hating it, and then we pendulum back to loving it. But if we just opened our hand and let it go because it didn't serve us anymore, we actually have a healthier relationship with it. So attachment and aversion are not healthy relationships because you just constantly oscillate back and forth between them. We're actually trying to go beyond attachment and aversion.
Starting point is 00:09:07 We're going to acceptance. I accept. This served me. It doesn't serve me anymore. I'm letting it go. Now the second principle to breaking, we're going to be changing that word to letting go of bad habits is to realize what's motivating you.
Starting point is 00:09:24 How many times have you tried to break a habit or lose a bad habit, but then it comes right back, that attachment and aversion that we all experience? There are four things that motivate us. Let's choose the eating unhealthy again. One of the reasons could be fear. You fear being unhealthy or you fear that people will see you as unhealthy or you fear that it may affect your career and your family and your children. Fear is one motivator. The one higher from fear is results. You're motivated by getting a particular result. I want a revenge body. I want that person to feel this way about me. I want to get to this goal because I want to prove something. That intention is better than being motivated by fear, but it is still misleading and not the healthiest.
Starting point is 00:10:16 Higher than that is the motivator or intention of duty. You do something out of responsibility and duty that I want to eat healthier because I want to be responsible about my body. I want to be responsible about my family and my children. It's a feeling of responsibility. Now it's not fear that's motivating you. That's considered a healthier, progressive intention. Now, the fourth motivator that is considered the motivator that is the most profound and powerful is when we're motivated by love and purpose. We love our body, so we want to take care of it. We love our family, so we want to take care of it. We love food, so we want to honor it and nourish it and eat it in a way that it's good for
Starting point is 00:11:01 us. We want to create more experiences of love. Is that where we all want to live? But here's the thing. We have to move up the ladder. If something's not been changing for a long time, if you haven't been able to break a habit for a long time, chances are you haven't dialed up the fear enough. You're not really scared of how bad this could be. I realize I love fried food. Who doesn't love fries? Fried vegan wings. Like who doesn't love something fried? But when I started to really understand how damaging fried food was for me, I interviewed Dave Asprey with all my podcasts. We talked about this, even Dr. Stephen Gundry. When
Starting point is 00:11:42 I talked to them about fried food, you start to recognize, okay, fear is actually going to help me get away from this because I love myself, but I fear that more. So fear is often the first step. Then from that, you now set a goal. You say, okay, now I want a result. I want to try and not eat fried food because I'm going to try and be healthier. My result is that I'm going to be healthy. Okay, now I'm doing it responsibly, just because it become a natural pattern and now I'm doing it out of love. So often we stay in fear or we try to do it
Starting point is 00:12:13 because of love and we fail, because if you stay in fear, it's not sustainable. And if you try and jump to love, it's not sustainable because we're not there yet. So use fear as the first intention, but then rise to the intention of result, rise to the intention of responsibility, and then rise to the intention of love. I'm Eva Longoria. I'm Maite Gomez-Rajón. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast Hungry for History. On every episode we're exploring some of our favorite dishes
Starting point is 00:12:44 ingredients beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and History! On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Corner flower. Both. Oh, you can't decide. I can't decide.
Starting point is 00:12:59 I love both. You know, I'm a flower tortilla flower. You're a team flower? I'm team flower. I need a shirt. Team flower, team flower. I'm team flower. I need a shirt. Team flower, team core. Join us as we explore surprising and lesser known corners of Latinx culinary history and traditions.
Starting point is 00:13:11 I mean, these are these legends, right? Apparently, this guy Juan Mendes, he was making these tacos wrapped in these huge tortillas to keep it warm, and he was transporting them in a burro, hence the name the burritos. Listen to Hungary for history with Ivalangoria and Maite Gomez Rejón as part of the Michael Dura Podcast Network available on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Our 20s are saying is this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, full in love, make mistakes and decide what we want from our life.
Starting point is 00:13:45 But what can psychology really teach us about this decade? I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships and much more to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences, incredible guests, fascinating topics, important science, and a bit of my own personal experience. Audrey, I honestly have no idea what's going on with my life. Join me as we explore what our twenties are really all about about from the good, the bad, and the ugly, and listen
Starting point is 00:14:26 along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our 20s. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemis Pegg, now streaming on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts. How's that new year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save a retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet, roughly 4 in 5 New Year's Resolutions fail within the first month or two.
Starting point is 00:14:54 But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals, and our podcast How to Money Can Help. That's right, we're two best buds who've been at it for more than 5 years now, and we want to see you achieve your money goals, and it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering list our questions, interviewing experts and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is Choc Full of the Personal Finance Knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week and we talk about debt payoff. If, let's say you've had a particularly
Starting point is 00:15:23 spend thrift holiday season, we also talk about building payoff. If, let's say you've had a particularly spend-thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing, and growing your income, no matter where you are on your financial journey, how do money's got your back? Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress.
Starting point is 00:15:39 Listen to how to money on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Step number three is know every single trigger. Imagine you were an FBI agent or you were a double-o agent. You would be trained to be aware of every potential point of weakness and attack. If you don't know every one of your weaknesses, chances are someone else will. One of your greatest strengths is an awareness of all your weaknesses. We think knowing about our weaknesses makes us weaker, but that's not true. Awareness of your weaknesses can be your greatest strength. Because when you're aware of all your triggers, guess what?
Starting point is 00:16:36 You're prepared. You know how many times did you play a little video game when you jump with Mario from place to place in tube to tube and coin to coin. And you start knowing, okay, that's a trigger there. I know that that animal thing is going to try and eat me. I know I'm going to fall through that gap. When you're aware of the triggers, you can play the game. If you're not aware of the triggers, you're going to be surprised every single time.
Starting point is 00:16:59 Sonic the Hedgehog. Okay, now I'm showing my age. But you take any video game. If you're not aware of where the trigger might be, it's going to be really tough. I want you to know every single trigger. So for me, one of my triggers is being hungry while I'm out in the studio. If I get hungry while I'm at the studio, I'm gonna turn to a bag of chips that's there or I'm gonna turn to a sugar rich energy bar that isn't really as full of protein as you want it to be.
Starting point is 00:17:38 So I know that's a trigger for me. I've literally started carrying around with me a box of nuts and dates. I've started carrying around with me, health healthier snacks that I can have throughout the day. I have to know that trigger though. It's such a specific trigger and it's not something that's in my house, but that's why I have to be aware of it because I can see that that's where I always fall back into my old habits. What's another place that I fall back into my old habits?
Starting point is 00:18:03 Maybe when I'm with a certain group of people. Maybe when I go to a certain space for dinner or a certain place for dinner. Maybe when I'm tired. I know that when I'm tired I want to eat much more carbs, sugar, and the things that aren't great for me. Are you aware of every single trigger? I want you to write down every single trigger possible. Do not leave any stone unturned in this activity. This is actually the reason why we keep failing
Starting point is 00:18:31 and keep messing up, because we haven't made a list of every possible single trigger. I really mean it, every single one. You're not gonna miss a single one. I want every single trigger. The fourth step is Remove the triggers
Starting point is 00:18:48 That don't need to be in close proximity. I've always joked about this. I call it the world's worst snack drawer. It's the snack drawer we have in our house Rather is removed all unhealthy items from the snack droids only full of healthy items Which I actually enjoy now. It's taken me a while But I call it unhealthy items from the snack drawer. It's only full of healthy items, which I actually enjoy now. It's taken me a while, but I call it the world's worst snack drawer. And the removal of those triggers from my space has forced me into healthier habits. I'll pick a fruit instead of a bad snack. I'll pick a healthy snack instead of an unhealthy snack.
Starting point is 00:19:22 I'll pick a walk instead of a snack at all. Right? I realize walking to that drawer and not wanting anything from it is sometimes what makes the healthy as choice. We have to remove the triggers from our close proximity. What are the distractions? What are the things? I had a friend who was addicted to pornography
Starting point is 00:19:42 and the only way that he could work on that is he had to ban every site from his phone, hit to ban every site from his laptop, hit to sleep away from his laptop. He had to keep his phone in another room like he really wanted to break that habit. He really wanted to let go of that habit. And the only way to let go of it
Starting point is 00:20:03 was to not keep the triggers so close. He had to mute bunch of people that he followed on Instagram, right? And so are you truly giving yourself the best chance? Most of us are setting ourselves up for failure by still putting ourselves in vulnerable positions. And that's the interesting thing about this. It's that if you really want to let go of this habit, you have to truly stop putting yourself in vulnerable positions. Most of us put ourselves in vulnerable positions,
Starting point is 00:20:35 and then we freak out as to why we don't have enough willpower. You're relying so much on willpower when you've been attracted or addicted or attached to that thing, whatever it is for so long, that you're actually stressing yourself out. You're actually creating more fatigue in your mind and body by trying to resist something that you're putting so close. Step number five, create a system for each trigger you can't remove. This is called an if then
Starting point is 00:21:06 system. If I'm at the studio then I take dates and nuts with me. If I am hungry at a gas station I know then these are the bars that I can choose from. If I am at the airport and I forgot to pack a meal, then this is what I would turn to. Until you create an if, then, plan for each and every one of your triggers, you're basically saying I'll decide in the moment and in the moment, you're always going to go to your default condition state. In the moment, it's very difficult to shrug off and shake off your conditioning. It's really, really difficult. And you're creating more stress, pressure, tension for your mind and
Starting point is 00:21:50 body to go through in that moment. If I miss my alarm, then what am I going to do? How are you going to change that? If I don't feel like waking up in the morning, then I'm going to have the alarm be my favorite song. So I wake up. The idea is creating that if then system sets you up for success, rather than creating this surprise moment, if you don't create an if then system, you're basically living a life full of surprises. And if you live a life full of surprises, you are always going to end up living the same life because when you're surprised, you go back to your old ways.
Starting point is 00:22:27 Step number six. This is something that I learned from my friends who've been a part of AA and it's having someone you call just when you're about to mess up. So you have someone in your life that you call or message when you're about to mess up. When you're about to do something you don't want to do, when you've promised you're going to break this habit, you have someone you call up. Now, this person doesn't have to be working on the same thing. They might have already worked through it, which is really, really useful in that case. Or in the simplest sense, it's just a friend that you trust that isn't
Starting point is 00:22:59 going to mind getting a message saying, Hey, I need some help. Just need some reassurance. You know, stay with me, promise me that you're not going to let me do this. Right? That kind of person is so helpful because what we really need is pattern interruption. So if I feel tired, I'm not actually going to turn to a carbie sugary item. And if I have someone to call what it does,
Starting point is 00:23:22 it disrupts the pattern that I need this thing in my life right now You get to walk it through talk it through you message someone you break it down It gives you that space Having someone to call in those emergency urgent moments can be truly truly powerful The seventh step is something that the Vedic perspective talks about a lot and it's finding replacements, having a higher taste. This is something we forget to do. You can't let go of something without replacing it with something and this is probably the
Starting point is 00:23:59 biggest mistake in all of our habit structuring. You can't remove something without replacing it. Please do not just try to remove something from your life, replace it with something better. In the Vedic perspective, this is called the higher taste. You only let go of a lower taste when you have a higher taste. So I was really on health line about how long it takes to really break a habit. And I think really on health line about how long it takes to really break a habit. And I think this is some really important
Starting point is 00:24:28 and interesting information. So research from 2012, looking at habit formation suggests 10 weeks, or about 2.5 months, is a more realistic estimate for more people. And the main evidence back time frame for habit breaking comes from 2009 research which suggests it can take anywhere from 18 to 254 days. This study looked at 96 adults who wanted to change one specific behavior.
Starting point is 00:25:00 One person formed a new habit in just 18 days, but the other participants needed more time. It took an average of 66 days for the new behavior to become automatic according to study results. So you can try to understand that habit formation is not something quick and fast and easy. It's going to take time and breaking a habit down as well. So when we say, okay, well, in 2022, I'm not going to do something.
Starting point is 00:25:24 That's actually not a good plan. Because when you say, well, in 2022, I'm not going to do something. That's actually not a good plan. Because when you say, well, in 2022, I'm not going to do something, you're basically trying to go from 100 to a zero. And that doesn't work. So you may say in 2022, I'm trying to go from 100 to 90, right? I'm trying to reduce it. I'm trying to break this part of it down. I'm trying to understand what my motivators are. I'm trying to break this part of it down. I'm trying to understand what my motivators are. I'm trying to really understand my triggers in January. And in February, I'm going to work on an if-then plan for my triggers. It's a step-by-step process that I want people to take. So, I really hope that you're going to try and implement this in your life this week.
Starting point is 00:26:04 Thank you so much for listening to On Purpose. I am so, so grateful to each and every one of you. And I'm going to read some of your amazing reviews. This one is from Simone Carter. Amazing podcast. I've heard great things about this podcast, so when I recently did a cross-country trip, I downloaded all of the episodes and played it non-stop. The topics, guests and information J provides through his platform is amazing. Every episode gave me a applicable advice to improve, opportunities to reflect and ways to get in tune with myself and my values. I was in the middle of a big
Starting point is 00:26:39 live transition and this podcast helped me feel prepared to take on the challenges that came with it. Because of our genuine and vulnerable JEs with every podcast, I feel like I'm talking with a good friend. I cannot recommend this podcast enough. Wow, that is amazing. I am so, so grateful. I really, really appreciate this. This is from Marie B. After listening to this podcast for a little over a year now, I would absolutely recommend. Jay is just so incredible at explaining and breaking down useful information, you're so kind.
Starting point is 00:27:10 After each episode, you instantly can feel better, adjust your perspective, and have helpful information to use in your daily life. He also does an amazing job at inviting guests who truly have so much to offer and make an hour-long podcast so easy to listen to. Thank you. Wow, these are incredible. I'm just so touched, honestly. I'm so humbled that I get to have this connection
Starting point is 00:27:32 and relationship with you and keep these reviews coming and please do leave your name so that I can shout you out in the episode as well. This is from Tanya, Beauty, Positivity and Abundance. DIAJ, thank you for an amazing podcast. I'm a new listener, and I look so forward to your uploads. You bring beauty, positivity and abundance to the world, and all of your listeners are grateful for your messages
Starting point is 00:27:53 and your genuine spirit. Thank you, Tanya. And thanks to each and every one of you. I'll see you again next week. What if you could tell the whole truth about your life, including all those tender and visible things we don't usually talk about? I'm Megan Devine. Host of the podcast, it's okay that you're not okay. Look everyone's at least a little bit not okay these days, and all those things we don't
Starting point is 00:28:22 usually talk about, maybe we should. This season I'm joined by Stellar, Gas like Abbermote, Rachel Cargol and so many more. It's okay that you're not okay. New episodes each and every Monday, available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Getting better with money is a great goal for 2023. But how are you going to make it happen? Ordering a book that lingers on your nightstand isn't going to do the trick. Instead, check out our podcast How to Money.
Starting point is 00:28:48 That's right, we're two best buds offering all the helpful personal finance information you need without putting you to sleep. We offer guidance three times a week and we talk about debt payoff, saving more, intelligent investing, and increasing your earnings. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them make progress with their financial goals. You can listen to How to Money on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Munga Shategler, and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us wanna believe.
Starting point is 00:29:19 You can find it in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-Pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:29:39 Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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