On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Ashley Graham: ON Body Shaming and How to Stop Negative Self Talk

Episode Date: July 8, 2019

On this episode of On Purpose, I sat down with Supermodel, designer, and barrier-breaking body activist Ashley Graham. Ashley opens up about how she went from hating her body to loving it and making it her purpose to encourage others to do the same. She discusses how your words become your truth and why it’s so important to stop negative self-talk. She dives into how exactly we can start doing that. She also answers the internet’s most asked relationship questions and shares more about her own journey with her husband. I learned so much from this conversation and I know you will too!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II, an opera singer who burned down an honorary to kidnap her lover, and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils, have in common. They're all real women who were left out of your history books. You can hear these stories and more on the Womanica podcast. Check it out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. How are you speaking about yourself in front of your kids?

Oh wow. Because that's how your kid is going to actually think of themselves. Because they know they're a product of you. Whether they're adopted or whether they are actually physically yours, there is no way that they're going to look at themselves any differently. Hello everyone, welcome back to on purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thank you so much for being a member of this community. Thank you for committing to self-work, love, and life every single week. And you know, I have this commitment to all of you. You take out of time out of your day, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're on the way

to the gym or at the gym, whether you're at the work or you're commuting back home, you commit to taking your time for being here. And I commit to you to bringing guests who can truly transform the way you live, work, and think. And today's guest is absolutely incredible. She's someone who's become a recent friend. I'm excited to get to know her more and more every time we're together. And she's someone who's not going to disappoint. She doesn't really need an introduction, but I'm going to give her on anyway,

because she liked the words that I had on my sheet. But her name is Ashley Graham. She's an incredible supermodel. She's breaking barriers through body activism and she's a style icon and designer and she's the host of an incredible show on Ellen Digital Network called Fearless. Ashley, thank you so much for doing this. Hi Jay. Hey.

So happy to be here. I'm so grateful to have you here. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Hi everybody. I Love it and I'm so glad because we literally met I think like a month ago. Yes at the Ellen de Generous Like kind of launch. They they have there. What is it called the upfront? Out front of New York. Yes, and you're launching season two of fearless and I was already a fan of Jay Shetty That I was already following you was already the thing and you weren't following two of Fearless. And I was already a fan of Jay Shuddy. I was already following you. I was already the thing at,

you weren't following me yet, that's okay. That's not true. But we're friends! And I'm just kidding. But it was so nice. And then we had a nice really great lunch. And here we are. We did.

And I actually didn't know this, but I told her that day when we met. I was like, actually, I've been stalking you for a long time actually, because I saw you speak at the Forbes 30 under 30 event in Israel. It is real. Yeah, exactly. So I'd seen you from then, and then we bumped into each other at UPW, NLA. Yep.

And then, and then we met here. And actually, this was, this is what really impressed me about actually, she was attending the mat for like the 25th time or whatever it is. Third. Third, but you know, she was attending the mat. 25th, third. And everyone that week was telling me how busy they were with the mat and getting ready. Then I should do, I do want to do lunch one day before the mat, like before a fitting. And I was just like, here's such an awesome

human who has time to have lunch. And I don't know, Jay, I really think that people just want to be like, they want to get their relaxation in before the mat, because it's such a crazy day and evening. But I always have time for lunch. Yeah. Always. Well, thank you. And you, you looked amazing at the mat because it's such a crazy day and evening, but I always have time for lunch. Yeah. Always. Well, thank you. And you looked amazing at the mat. Thank you. It was so much fun. Dapper Dan really did a great job. Yeah, it was incredible.

It was amazing. I loved it. Today, I'm excited to dive into your journey, your story. I can't wait for my audience to learn more about you and for all more in love with you as well. So really, really excited to do that. And I want to start where it all began for you and being spotted at a mall.

I know, it's so weird. I think, you know, so that's really where I was discovered as a model. But if you take it back and you go back to like how I was raised, I'm from Texas Atlanta, Arkansas, New Hampshire, and Nebraska, my dad was a business consultant. So we moved around a lot.

And every time he got a better consultant, so we moved around a lot. And every time he got a better job is when we were moving. And from there, I mean, my mom, she was raised as a farmer in a farmer family. And my dad was low class, working class kind of family. So when they raised me and my sisters, it was really about like being humble, working hard, and when you start something, you finish it. So when I was in the mall and the scout came up to me and said, hey, do you want to be a model, it was another opportunity that my mom and dad saw

as something like, oh, maybe she'll like this thing. Because I didn't love basketball, I didn't love soccer, probably because my mom and dad also played a lot of sports. They just kept putting me into sports. I also was not artistic at all. It's like I wasn't good at anything. Then modeling came about and they were like, let's try it. Next thing you know, it just kind of all stuck with me.

I went through what someone might call a modeling school, but it was this expo where they put you in front of many different agencies and you kind of have to prance around and like, I don't know, show your stuff and an agency liked me and signed me. And it was just like all very surreal. I had no idea what modeling was. I didn't know what Vogue was. I didn't know what pretty meant. I knew like what being the most. I knew what being the most, like having, being the most popular in high school or middle school was,

but I did not know what beautiful was until I got into this industry that dictated what beauty was. And then that's when it was like a whole new world for me. And I moved to New York at 17. I had modeled all through high school and I traveled the world. And even when I got home from parasol,

I was high, my mom would still be like, you have to mow the lawn, Ashley. Like, this is how I was raised. I was like, very humble. She's like, I don't care how much money you just made. It doesn't matter. You self-to-baby-sit your sister. So I was like, okay, great.

Well, thanks, mom. Everybody in Paris loved me. Ha-ha-ha. But it was interesting because it was like two different parallels of what beauty is. At home, my mom raised me to believe in myself, and that my exterior had nothing to do with my worth. And she raised my sister the exact same way. She never looked at herself and degraded herself in front of the mirror, never said she needed to go on a diet.

She was very strong and adamant about those things. And that kindness was the most beautiful thing that you could wear. And then I'm in this world that is only based off of your exterior. That is about your worth with your size, the hip measurement, with how beautiful your hair is, what your eye shape is.

You're not supposed to have a voice as a model. There's so many, it was just very strange to me. So I knew who I was from my mother and my father growing up, but then I had to conform to an industry that I wanted to fit into. And the reason I think I wanted to fit into it because it was a whole new world, it was like tasting a new piece of candy. It was people offered obscene amounts of money.

They offered you to feel like you were in. They offered you the opportunity to be cool. And those are things that I had never felt afforded. And now it's like, oh, do I want those things? What do I have to do to get in? And you start to see yourself kind of make changes in your own belief system to fit into an idea or an ideal that was set that doesn't need to be.

And that's exactly what happened. It was just kind of this like messy spiral downfall where I had to catch myself really quick before I fell into it. That's so powerful though that you had this incredible upbringing. Thank God I did. Yeah, like your relationship with your mother and just how she spoke to you about beauty and your family. And I think that that's so unique and rare today as well. Because I know a lot of people who actually say actually because of the way I was raised, that's where a lot of my insecurities come from. I know a lot of people who actually say actually because of the way I was raised that's where a lot of my insecurities come from. I know because as opposed to their strengths.

I talk to a lot of moms and I always tell them like how are you speaking about yourself in front of your kids? Oh wow. Because that's how your kid is going to actually think of themselves because they know they're a product of you. Yes. Whether they're adopted or whether they are actually physically yours, there is no way that they are gonna look at themselves any differently. And I've seen it in all spectrums with mothers that have never sent anything bad to their parent

or to their kid, but I've talked very badly about themselves and you see the product of the child. And I've met people who their parents have talked really poorly to them and they're some of the most confident people. So, you know. Yeah, it can go either way. It really can. It can go either way. But how did you tell me this?

Because I think you're someone who at such a young age went through so many huge transformations. Yes. So many huge transitions. Yes. Right? It can't be easy being spotted, traveling all over the world, making all this money, being signed.

All of this at such a young age being brought into this huge industry which already has expectations. How did you start watching yourself catch yourself? Like how were you able to notice when things were going too far? Because I think a lot of people miss that when they start working for a new company and they start fitting in or they join this particular business school or university and they start fitting in or whatever it may be. For you, you did it in the most extreme sense, so I'd love to know. Of course. So just being thrown into an industry that, like you said, it's the money, it's the travel, it's the experience, and then it's also about staying in that kind of like it mode. And the thing about being a curvy model is that at that time, you only were in

basically one category and that was catalog. So I didn't have to be like an 8-girl on the runway that had to like keep my hair and like a buzz cut and like platinum and then like have it long for next season just to like feel different. Like I just had to make sure that I was doing all the things that the industry expected of me and whether that was talking how they talk or losing the weight that they wanted me to lose or I'm dressing the way or whatever it was. But the thing is because I was raised

in a very Christian upbringing and because I was raised with such understanding of my worth, and except for I wish my mom and dad would have talked to me about sex a lot more, I really do. Because I knew who I was, thank God I could stand up for myself, but because I didn't understand sex

and what it was to have worthiness over myself, that's where my downfall was, because I didn't have a great relationship with my father and in trying to fit in to this fashion world and not knowing who I was and people telling me, oh, you're not good enough, oh, you need to lose weight, oh, your hair is, oh, my, or your eyes are, whatever it was, your hip measurement, it was like,

oh, then I needed to go find my worth and then I would go find my worth in food, I would find my worth in men, I would find my worth in gossip. And that's when I really realized at 18 years old that I was on the spiraling downfall of hating who I was. I was working. I was making great money. But when you're working and making great money, but you feel really crappy about yourself,

there's nothing that will bring you joy at all. So I called my mom and I was like, mom, I'm not doing this anymore. I don't want to be a model. I want to leave New York City. This is just something that has gotten to me. And she told me and I swear to God my mother is so prophetic. She said, Ashley, your body is going to change someone's life

and you have to finish what you started. And I was like, I have no idea what you're saying, lady, but I'm gonna listen because we're supposed to listen to our mommy's and dad's. And she said, I'm gonna come up to New York and I'm gonna spend some time with you because I was really just going through a hard time. And she told me she's like, okay,

you have to start going back to church. I was like, what? I don't wanna go to church, mom. But, you know, you, well, you're raised in that atmosphere and then your mom is like, okay, this was her rule. Like, I only had to go to five churches and one time and just to feel it out.

And the first church I walked into, I saw three people that I had known from my church in Texas that I had gone to. And it was like a sign. It was like, wow, I see family in this church. So I started going to this church and I finally found like a community. And it was like outside of the modeling industry.

It's like I had my whole life wrapped up into these people who didn't know me, who didn't want me Because I wasn't fitting into an ideal. So then I started making friends outside of it all and it's like I went back to my roots I went back to who who am I and Thank God I did because it took me out of that nasty feeling of not feeling feeling worthy I stopped having sex. I was completely celibate after that. I, I, I just, I started actually doing affirmations and it was something that my mom talked to me about when I had no idea what they were, but she said, because, because we are Christian and we really, we really

believe that words have power. And I know that this is like many people that believe this, but it's like one of the biggest lessons in the Bible. And so she broke it down for me and she was like, if you keep calling yourself ugly and fat and not worthy and all these things, then that's exactly what you're going to be. So she said, change your words. And that's what I had to do. And it really helped me as well. And it was something, the words that I made for myself,

where I am bold, I am brilliant, I am beautiful, I am worthy of all, I love you. And I love you was the hardest one of them all. And it wasn't like I just said these things and overnight it like bottabing, bottabum, like, oh, I'm a misconferent. It was really, it was inner work, it was outer work, it was dedication to knowing that I could change the trajectory of my future by having these words be my truth. And having these

words be my truth has now enabled me to tell my full story and have other people's stories come out and talk to them about what affirmations are. And how your words are really killing you. So thank God for mom. Yeah. She really pulled me out of a lot. It's been really, it was really great. That's beautiful. What an incredible relationship to have.

That's awesome. And thank you for sharing so openly as well because I think so many of us start to have. That's awesome. And thank you for sharing so openly as well, because I think so many of us start to validate ourselves through a partner, right? Through men or women, through food. We start to validate ourselves through all these different ways, and we don't even know we're doing it. And so here you say, I'm sure a lot of people listening and watching right now are going

to be like, God, I've done that too. And I was sharing just literally, you've, you've hit it for me two weeks ago when I was doing red table talk with Jada. I talked about that. How I would find my validation in how I treated women. So it wasn't even what I got from them. It was just like, if I could show off how amazing I was during my teens, then that would make me feel more validated if they were impressed by me. I know. And I think we get lost in this web, and we're just weaving this web, and you're just getting more and more lost and trapped, and you don't even know. And you feel so empty.

And you feel so empty, even if you're externally successful and ticking all the boxes. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And the fact that you broke through it, because I do feel that, and I said this to you when we met, you've literally shifted an industry. Like, you have changed the industry from the way I view it, and from the way I experience it, and from the way so many other people experience it now,

and I mean that. And the fact that you've been able to go from a place, where actually all of these things were forced upon you to you now having a really powerful voice, right, being able to share all these messages around it, I think that that's the transformation I'd love for you to walk us through. Because I think that's the story of everyone.

Like your story is the story of everyone, maybe not as extreme, but everyone who feels like, yeah, you're not good enough, you're not gonna be able to do that. That's not possible, or it doesn't work like that. Right? And then being able to break that. And I love the affirmation point you made.

So let's start with that journey of transformation. I want to hear about how you did the work because I know you have. Oh my God. And it's like, how do you get to the point of looking at the mirror and saying, I love you and meaning it? Yeah.

Because I agree, I love affirmations too, but you have to feel. You have to know, you have to know it in yourself, right? And it's one of those, it's really, it's a lot of inner work. And for me, understanding that quiet time in the morning and meditation and prayer is like so, it is the thing that will get me through the day.

I will wake up, I will feel terrible, I'll feel my mind will be foggy or whatever, but that quiet time in the morning, whatever you choose to do with it, that is your time. And it is so precious to me. So that has done something that has been a staple for me and

affirmations. I mean I say them in the car before I walked up here. I was like I am bold and really an beautiful I'm worthy and Jay and I are gonna have a great conversation. You know it's like one of those it's just in me now So I don't have to recite it constantly, but everybody's affirmations are different, just to wrap up the affirmations, but everybody's different. And once you make yours and you say it, write it on your mirror, write it on a paper, like actually physically write it,

type it out if you love to type. Like whatever those things are for you so that you can embody it. And they can change over time too, which I think is very important. Yeah. So as you were saying, like that I have your words that I've changed in industry,

it's hard to go back and be like, when did it all begin? Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. Because for me, I was just this girl from Nebraska working my butt off, just trying to sustain a $4,000 rental in financial districts. I'm like, this is what people pay. Like, this isn't say, I'm living in 800

square feet. This is not okay. This is why I moved to Brooklyn. Right. But it was just, it was always such a heavy workload. And I didn't, I always felt like I was swimming upstream. And even as my worth developed, and even as my understanding of who I was, and that my worth wasn't wrapped up in men, my worth wasn't wrapped up in food, it wasn't wrapped up in my career, I still struggled and wanted something more in my career.

And I wanted to be able to make change in a different way. And I think that where a lot of it began, where a lot of it began was, I was in a commercial that was banned from television because of my size, because I was in a commercial that was banned from television because of my size because I was a long in lingerie and a girl that was size 16 I was 16 at the time. I'm a size 14 for all of you wondering Everyone was awesome. Oh my god, but people are always so just you know, we're still addicted to numbers Yeah, oh anyways, that's another conversation. Yeah, anyways, so I was a size 16 girl in lingerie in this commercial and I was like going to meet my boyfriend and it was banned from TV.

And that's really where kind of my career took, took like this trajectory of like, oh, there's this girl. And like maybe we want to get to know her. And that is when I realize, okay, I have a voice. How do I use it? Oh, social media, okay. So I'm gonna use social media to just tell my truth. I don't know what's gonna happen,

but it wasn't just me that wanted this change. It was so many people in the industry that were like, we aren't just plus size, we're women. We wanna have clothes that fit us. This isn't just about skinny women being able to be dressed in cool clothes't just about skinny women being able to be dressed in cool clothes. This is about everyone being able to dress and be in cool clothes. So I really used social media as a stepping stone in order to just have a voice. But I

didn't know that that was going to be my biggest stepping stone. So I remember just like posting photos of myself in swimsuits or lingerie and not retouching the cellulite out. Oh, okay. And getting all kinds of women just saying like, how brave of you or how courageous that you would actually do something like that. I would never or like, thank you for giving me the confidence to be able to do that.

And I thought, okay, well, this is good. This is like, this is a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People can. Exactly. And then I realized that there was a mark, there was a whole in the market for lingerie

and that people were looking at me as a lingerie girl. They didn't know my name, but they knew that I was a lingerie girl because of this commercial that was banned. So I was like, well, great. I'm going to make lingerie for all of you then. And because I could take a step back and look at where there was holes and where I could fill it at the time, because at the time I was 22 years, 22, yeah, 23, 23 years old, because I started also lingerie line because I had been in the same position on the couch when my husband left for the house in the morning

and he came back that same night. And I was like literally just still watching real housewives. And he's like, is this what you want with your life? And I was like, what do you mean? And he said, do you really just wanna be stuck in this kind of career, in this job, and doing this same thing? And I thought, I don't want that.

What can I do? And that's when I went and took a step back and made a vision board about who I wanna't, I don't want that. What can I do? And that's when I went and took a step back and made a vision board about who, who I want to be, what do I want? And that's when the idea of the lingerie line came around. And it's funny because people who have changed industries and people who have made such impacts in the world, I don't know that they've actually set out to do it. I think it just happens. And I've just taken every little gap that I've seen in my industry and I've tried to fill it. Because if I'm filling it with my voice,

then I know that I'm filling it with a voice that is like so many other people who just wanna be included, who want to have inclusivity, who don't want to be called different because we are the norm. And it's just a conversation that I've had to keep having, but it's incredible the strides that have happened along with it. The therapy for Black Girls podcast is the destination for all things mental health, personal development,

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I plung into the dark world of America's railroads searching for my daughter Ruby who ran off to hop train. I'm just like stuck on this train, not where I'm gonna end up and I jump. Following my daughter, I found a secret city of unforgettable characters living outside society, off the grid and on the edge. I was in love with a lifestyle and the freedom this community. No one understands who we truly are. The Rails made me question everything I knew about motherhood, history, and the thing we call the American Dream.

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Conquer your New Year's resolution to be more productive with the Before Breakfast Podcast in each bite-sized daily episode. Time management and productivity expert Laura Vandercam teaches you how to make the most of your time, both at work and at home. These are the practical suggestions you need to get more done with your day. Just as lifting weights keeps our bodies strong as we age, learning new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron. Listen to before breakfast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Absolutely. If everyone who's listening and watching right now actually is gracefully sharing a story and she didn't even point this out, but it's like

you literally took your commercial getting banned from being on TV and turned that into something incredible. Which I love, because it's so easy for any of us to hit any roadblock, hit any barrier, hit a rejection, hit a no for most of us. Like if our book doesn't get picked up or if your TV commercial gets banned or if your movie never made it out of script or whatever it is or it didn't make it out of a pilot phase,

a lot of us would be like, oh my God, my life's falling apart. I'm not going to make it or I didn't get into the college I wanted or I didn't get the promotion I wanted. But you went and took that same thing and that actually led to the birth of your lingerie. Yes. And then that. And then that is just phenomenal. I love that. It's just an example of how any situation can be the biggest blessing in the world. Yeah. I really, I think of nose as maybe's and I, and I turn my maybe's into yeses. And I'm, I know that not just one person is going to give me an answer. So there wasn't a door that I didn't knock on. And I think my parents all the time for instilling

that hard working ethic in me because it doesn't matter what you're doing in your career. You understand this, I understand this. You have to work your butt off. And you have to work your butt off even harder when you get to the top because then you want to stay there. Absolutely. I'm just saying. So you think you're working hard now?

It's true. It is. It's true. So I don't know. I just think that that was a very pivotal moment and then it all just kind of started spiraling into these great opportunities. And also just being able, I did a TED talk, which was also very scary for me. Very scary.

But it enabled me to have a voice and so many models were silenced. We were just told that you're a pretty face, be quiet. And it is crazy. It is crazy. That was my mind. I know, because I mean, we're people. Like we have many opinions. We have many things that we're passionate about.

We want to change the world. And I actually, in my book, I wrote a chapter about when models talk. And it's really, it's interesting because I had started this group called Alda, and it was me and four other curvy girls who had been switching agencies. And we did it together because we knew

if we went to a really big agency that did not have any curve models, we could really change the industry. And we made these business proposals, and we talked about how much money we each made, and how much money that the whole curve industry is making and what the trajectory of the industry is. And we took it as like this business opportunity to really to tell the industry who we were, not just as the five of us, but like who we are as curvy women. And they took, they listened and sure enough six years later here we are. And the

my god, I don't know that part. I love them. You can't do it alone. There's nothing you can do that you that that is only going to be you. There's teams that are behind people. There is mountains that are that you have to climb over to get to these places and you need people along the way to help you. And I always think those girls, when we say really close. But yeah. Yeah, no, I love that you brought up that point. I was sharing the other day that I feel like so many of us, when you're starting in a space,

you look at everyone else as your competitor. Right. And you're like, okay, who's winning in this space? What's my competitor analysis? Yes. Or like, oh, she's number one, I'm number 10, or whatever it is. So actually, what you've just shown is this beautiful example's my competitor analysis? For like, oh, she's number one, I'm number 10, or whatever it is. So actually what you've just shown

is this beautiful example of collaboration, right? Collaborators and seeing everyone. And I remember when I first started making content, for me it was the same. I was looking at every content creator as someone I could potentially collaborate with. And I would literally write to everyone and just be like, hey, I really believe

that we need to share these messages. Why can't we support and share with each other? And a few years later, I've seen the growth of all these incredible other platforms. And we all work together in the same way. So I love hearing that because I think so often we feel alone and we choose a lonely path when we don't need to. No, it's so true. And especially in the fashion industry, everything is a competition. And it's about the Instagram followers. Who's got covers, who's in the campaigns, who's on the runways.

And it was a really groundbreaking for people to see us all band together. And even the agencies were shook by it. They were like, you told each other how much you made? Like, how dare you? Exactly. But we had to because we wanted to make sure that we were making the right decision.

Yeah. Oh, gone. No, it's okay, it's okay. But I was going to bring up wanted to make sure that we were making the right decision. Oh, gone. No, it's okay. It's okay, it's okay. But I was going to bring up another great story in that even though I did that, I still had to learn another lesson a couple years later, where actually it was a year prior, my bad. I'm getting my timeline all mixed up, but there was a cover that I was up for and it was

Italian Vogue. And Italian Vogue in fashion industry is like being on the cover of Forbes in Aron, this side of the book. Yes, yes. And it is like, oh, the crumb to the crumb, and I was on hold to be on this job. And the night before I get the call,

and they're like, you didn't get confirmed. But three other brunettes did. And I was shook, and I thought, okay, there's a day two and they told me that maybe I'll get into day two. The next night they called me, they're like, actually, sorry, you didn't get it. And I honestly went a to bowl a pasta because like that was like my method

of just like coping and healing. And I said to my agent, I said, is this going to ruin my career? These three brunettes, like they're going to take over and they're, they're going to take every job that I've ever worked so hard to get. And he said, don't worry about it. Like, you're my money maker, you're my star. Nothing will happen to you. Sure enough, when this cover came out, it was like, boom, I stopped working. and these other girls just started getting more and more jobs and more fame, like whatever that was for them.

And I was so pissed. I was pissed. I was angry. I was jealous. I, there were so many emotions that were going on in my mind. And there was nothing that I wouldn't, that I felt like I couldn't have done to get on that cover, but except for just be pissed at that point.

And I had this probably three day conversation with myself about what it, what would it have meant to me to be on that cover? And I talked to myself through what the success of my feelings would have been, all of the, the highs, what jobs I would have gotten, all of that stuff. And I said, but it didn't happen. It wasn't yours. And the moment that I could say that to myself and realize that that wasn't mine,

and I forgave myself for getting so angry, it was like poof, it was out of my mind, and I could just share it with other people, and it was more of like a funny thing and a life lesson and some senses. And then I, and now I can even talk about it today because it was, it was something that that had me so shook and up, but now I didn't need that cover. I didn't need that cover to get to the next stage because God works in mysterious ways where he gives you exactly what you can have and or what you can handle in that cover. I didn't need that cover to get to the next stage because God works in mysterious ways where he gives you exactly what you can have or what you can handle in that moment. And I didn't need it. And he wanted to teach me a lesson on just being comfortable in my own space and not

having it all. Yes. And I was really, I mean, it took me a while to be okay with that. But now I look back and I think, wow, I'm so glad that I was able to handle the situation that I did. Yeah, thank you for sharing both human aspects. Yeah. Like I'm glad that you told us about that side too. Yeah. And thank you for sharing both stories.

Like the first story showing collaboration, community coming together, but then actually showing on the flip side, of course, we all want to win. We all want to do well. Exactly. And we will go through moments of feeling extremely angry, extremely upset. And I love that you said you had a three day conversation with yourself. Yeah. Which I think is awesome, by the way.

Like, I think everyone should set more meetings with themselves on their calendar, right? Like our calendar is a full of meetings with other people. Oh. Imagine you actually had a meeting that said me. Me, I know. Right. Oh, I should do that. Yeah, we need everyone to have a calendar on that. Yeah, calendar moment that says me,

a meeting with myself. It's the most important meeting of the day. Yeah. And I just think that it's so awesome that you shared both sides with us because I do think it's human balance. Absolutely, and it's human to want to win and to succeed and to be ambitious.

How were you able from that point on then to proof it's all disappeared, you're not feeling that envy and that pain anymore, but to pave a new path for yourself and to notice, as you said in your words, God's plan of paving a new path and a new lesson for you. So how were you then able to open up to that opportunity? Well, I think then I just had tunnel vision

and that I didn't have competition. It was just everything was about what am I doing and what do I want to see and it's been really great to be able to work with people My team is incredible And be able to come to them and say okay This is what I see that that needs to happen in my career But this is also what I see that needs to happen in the fashion industry and how how can we fill the void? And how can we fix things and change things? And it's been really great to be able to work with designers like probably Goran and Christian Seriano and Michael Cors

and just be able to have natural conversations about what's really happening in the industry. But then also to have the confidence in myself to be able to do those things. And I think now is the time people want that change. And the body positive, the body inclusivity conversation has just poof blown up. And now more than ever, we're seeing women and men, honestly, which has been really cool, of all shape sizes, ages, colors. which has been really cool, of all shape sizes, ages, colors.

I mean, name the gamut. It's like, the inclusivity is like really where it's at. But staying true to who you are is easy when you know who you are. And I think that I'm 31 and through my 20s, I had to really get to know myself. And I had a lot of like what felt like maybe a carpal tunnel because I was just writing a lot about journaling, about who I wanted to be, what my goals were and all these different things.

And when I look back at those journals, I laugh because I feel like I was so immature. Like I really wanted such little things. Oh my, so back to the day. Like I really, like I look and I think, wow, my was so close-minded, but I'm so glad that I have that proof to myself, how much I've grown. And it's nice to look at the fashion industry

and say, wow, things are really moving and then be able to look back at the journals and be like, wow, I mean, it's just incredible to see the maturity of everything all at once. So yeah, I think that just really knowing who you are and getting to know yourself is really key in whatever industry that you're in and whatever mountain you're trying to move. Yeah, absolutely so well said, so well said. I think one of the things that you're really raising that's important to me here is this principle of, we think we have the grandest and biggest plans for ourselves.

And then the universe, God, whatever you want to call it, comes and gives you something way bigger. Way bigger. And you just have to stay on that path. And every delay really has a blessing. Yeah. But you've just got to be able to wait. wait and be patient and consistently keep pushing and working. And I think so many people just get off the path

Before you're actually revealed that hey, wait a minute like your your ideas were good But they were much smaller and there's better things in store. You have to believe it. Yeah, you have to believe it Now I love that and you're so right if you don't know who you are You can't keep hold of that. And you've had your fair share of the negative comments too. Like when you posted your, you know, when you started to post

more transparent authentic images of yourself, and I love how you have this thing called teachable moment. Yes. And I want you to tell our audience about it because I think so many of us like, you don't have to be a supermodel or an influencer or a creator to be worried about trolls and negative comments. Everyone gets them. Yeah. Whether you get one or

you get one thousand or you get a hundred dollars and we all get them. So tell us about this teachable moment. So for me, I think the natural human reaction would be like just to have anger back and you know what good would that do? It's not gonna do anything for me or for the person receiving it. So I always like to think of it as like you said, like you quoted me already a teachable moment because not everybody understands where you're coming from, not everybody understands

why you're posting a photo that you are, whatever. So if somebody wants to write something very ignorant, like stop making fat look cool, you're gonna kill somebody, then I can write a message back saying that, well, first of all, fat is necessary for a body, like in order to live. And thirdly, I'm not making fat, fat also can be cool.

And if you wanna call me fat grade, I'm not offended by that word. And just having this this conversation like break down what that person actually said, because a lot of times that person behind the keyboard is already so broken, we note this. But I also like to have these teachable moments like that for the younger generation that's watching,

because I want them to know, you can stand up for yourself and you can do it in a polite way. You don't have to say, you know, something negative and ugly back. You can say, oh, thank you so much for, you know, identifying the fact that my cellulite is out today. Thank you so much. And it's just like, who cares? But that's also, you know, in this generation of Instagram, I'm so glad I wasn't raised in so young in that world because there's so much wrapped up in a double tap. There's so much wrapped up in a comment.

There's so much wrapped up in the followers. And I always, I don't care how many likes I get. Like, that, to me, doesn't ever bother me. I just always want to make sure that I'm replying to some of my DMs and my comments to make people know that, hey, I see you. That's all that matters. If they see that I have, quote, clapped back in a teachable way, then so be it because I think that that's how we should be clapping back.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you do that in an awesome way. Tell me how... Wait, what are And I think you do that in an awesome way. Tell me how, Wait, what are negative comments that you get? Negative comments, I think. Yeah, because you're not showing your cellulite. Okay, no, no. I'll tell you one of the first ones I got,

which I'll never forget, because it was genius, I thought it was hilarious. So it said like, I bet he has a wind-blown machine for his hair to fly like that video. Oh my God! So like, someone literally accused me of like, but I was like, well, that's such a good idea. But I was just outside, that was when I first,

that was like one of the first videos I made. I didn't have a team. It was one guy with his camera and me. It was a super windy day in London. Oh. And I'm sitting on this rooftop and literally my head's like. And the sound was really good, right?

The sound was really good. I saw that interview. Yeah. And it's just like, yeah, so that was one of them that I got. I think, so that's something common I get is something based on, again, it's always physical. A lot of it's just like yeah, so that was one of them that I got. I think so that's something common. I get something based on again, it's always physical a lot of it's physical Exactly, and I'm like okay, I can laugh at that. That's funny. That's cool And then often I'll get things like oh, well, it's easy to say and then again, that's a teachable moment too

And I'm like yes, I know it's easy to say I get it that you're really going through it But this is at least opening the conversation. Like how much can I share with you in a three to four minute video? Exactly. I'm trying my best here, and that's why this podcast conversations like this are beautiful opportunities where we're really diving into so many of these themes in depth.

With someone like yourself who's going through in an extreme way. And so for me, the three to four minute videos have been windows for people to come into a bigger, deeper conversation. And so I'm open about the fact that I can't answer everyone's problems in four minutes. And I'm not trying to either. I'm just trying to start a conversation. And that's what my videos were about. It's, how do we start a conversation about these themes? I believed, when

I started making content, I believed that people are having these conversations offline in their personal circles or on their own, but no one was having them online And so I was like how can we urge and encourage more people to feel comfortable and confident to have them? So yeah, I get the hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, it's teacher moments. I love it But but one of the things I really want to ask you this and this is something I ask a lot of people whose industry or career is based on An external accolade or a ward in in your case for example getting a magazine cover like you said And this is something I ask a lot of people whose industry or career is based on an external accolade or award. In your case, for example, getting a magazine cover, like you said, Italian Vogue, getting

a magazine cover is a big deal, right? For a model. It's huge. I mean, that's kind of proving like progress in one sense. How have you stayed in love with the process and motivated every day, rather than waiting for that release of a cover to validate how you feel about your career in yourself. Because I think everyone today has this, you know, a balance between like process and result,

process and result. And I'm just, I'm asking that to a lot of people at the moment, I just think yours would be an incredible answer to have because your career is based around an external validation in one sense. So the question is about like how do I, how do I, oh wait, where are you going to say? Yeah, no, no, I can explain it if, but you can repeat it. No, but it's about like the process of getting to that cover and then getting it or not. When I meet you, and of course, I'm meeting you at a time when you have made shifts, you are very successful, et cetera, but still, I meet you, and of course, I'm meeting you at a time when you have made shifts, you are very successful,

et cetera, but still, I see you as someone who's happy. I see you as someone who's content. I see you as someone who's excited and bubbly, and I see all these good qualities in you, and I'm guessing that you don't live for the cover. I'm guessing that you love life every day. I'm guessing, I'm assuming that. And if that's true, then it's like,

how have you fallen in love with the process of getting to the cover and not living for the cover in an other way? I see. Does that make sense? 100%. 100%. So if you wrap your, for me, I haven't, I can't wrap myself up with of my worth and my work. Because if you wrap yourself up in your worth of anything, you're going to completely fail at it. And that's like wrapping yourself up in a relationship or, I mean, literally anything. So I have been, I have made this conscious decision to be 100% comfortable and confident in who I am as Ashley and not have the world tell me who I am,

but know who I am because of how I know God made me because I know what comes out of my mouse because I know what I look at because I know what I do on a daily basis with the tangible things that I am able to do. And there are so many covers that have not come. There are so many jobs that I wish have and would and will that have not, but I'm not wrapped up in that because I know what I'm doing is making a change in the world that I'm living in today. And I think that if I were to be so wrapped up in the actual process, then I would be living in high anxiety every day.

And I choose not to live in anxiety. I am Mi'amla, and on my podcast, The R-Spot, we're having inspirational, educational, and sometimes difficult and challenging conversations about relationships. They may not have the capacity to give you what you need. And insisting means that you are abusing yourself now. You human! That means that you're crazy as hell, just like the rest of us. When a relationship breaks down, I take copious notes and I want to share them with you. Anybody with two eyes and a brain knows that too much Alfredo sauce is just no good for

you. But if you're going to eat it, they're not going to stop you. So he's going to continue to give you the Alfredo sauce and put it even on your grits if you don't stop him. Listen to The R Spot on the iHeart Video app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oh, pro. Everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it. Kobe Bryant.

The results don't really matter. It's the figuring out that matters. Kevin Haw. It's not about us as a generation at this point. It's about us trying our best to create change. Luron's Hamilton. That's for me being taken that moment for yourself each day, being kind to yourself, because I think for a long time

I wasn't kind to myself. And many, many more. If you're attached to knowing you don't have a capacity to learn. On this podcast you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. Hey, it's Debbie Brown. And my podcast deeply well is a soft place to land on your wellness journey.

I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness and mental health around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your journey. From guided meditations to deep conversations with some of the world's most gifted experts in self-care, trauma, psychology, spirituality, astrology, and even intimacy. Here is where you'll pick up the tools to live as your highest self. Make better choices. Heal and have more joy. My work is rooted in advanced meditation,

metaphysics, spiritual psychology, energy healing, and trauma-informed practices. I believe that the more we heal and grow within ourselves, the more we are able to bring our creativity to life. And live our purpose, which leads to community impact and higher consciousness for all beings. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow,

to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Big love. Namaste. Yeah, I love that answer. That's awesome, because that's something no one can ever take away from you. or wherever you listen to podcasts. Big love. Namaste. Yeah, I love that answer. That's awesome because that's something no one can ever take away from you. Ever.

You can't, nobody can. I'm never be taken away. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. I've been thinking about that a lot, especially with so many people's lives today that revolve around a cover or a movie or an event

or a promotion. It's always about this result result. But it's hard to get to that place, especially in an industry that is so wrapped up in what you do have and what people see on social media. And it's hard to teach the next generation that as well because everything is about the look and the glam and the behind the scenes.

And also just showing literally everything and not have anything sacred and You know none of that bothers me none of that affects me because I know who I am and I know what my mission is and I Think it's important. I love how that message keeps coming back through everything you say which is how how crystal clear it is It's awesome. You mentioned then, we spoke about this a lunch about your relationship. You married for nine years? Nine years and nine years. Nine years, which is amazing. Congratulations.

Thank you. That's awesome. I love that. Every year is a journey. Absolutely. You're three? I've been married for three together with my wife for six. Okay, got it. Yeah, we've been married for three years.

Did it feel different if you got married? It did. It felt better. I actually loved getting married. It was amazing. I think it just, yeah, it was one of the best decisions I ever made and I was always like, I always say this to everyone. I'm like I upgraded totally like Awesome. And that's a good feeling too. Like, you know, you did better than you get that. She's beautiful. I can't wait to meet her. She's awesome. She's just great energy. She's lovely to be around and she's just a wonderful soul. So and I can't wait to meet your husband too. Yeah, but I was gonna ask this because my audience loves

Relationship advice loves learning about love loves learning about Understanding yourself in a relationship with another partner. Yeah, I'd love to hear some of the most incredible lessons You've learned in your nine years of marriage From your partner and from that partnership. Well, something that I've realized with Justin is that consistency is key. And the more consistent you are with your partner, the more trust you're going to build with them. And I think that also putting them first, because when you're in a relationship, it's not about you anymore. It's about that other person. And that's something that, you know,

being, I got married at 22. And I had to learn that lesson because at 22, you're kind of selfish. So, yeah. And Justin is so patient. Oh, my, I never knew patients until I met Justin. Wow. Like, it is, he is the definition of patience.

That's what I'm saying. So I really had to understand what it was to put Justin before myself. And I think that the more I put him in front of me, the more love, and vice versa, the more that he puts me in front of him, our love has really grown, and then we've just been consistent with that.

Well, consistency. Yeah, which is so underrated. It's so under, but you know, the reason I even started to fall in love with Justin is because he was consistent. He was the only guy that I had ever dated that was actually consistent with what, putting what he said into action,

and his actions in his words, and how he was consistently calling me, and dating me, and relating to me, like he is such a consistent man that that's really truly what I fell in love with. What a beautiful quality to look out for. And that's so, for anyone who's listening or watching right now,

you'll never find that in a clickbait article. You say, you know that like consistency, it's such a great value to look for. And we all know that you'll only be happy in life if what you think, say, endure a line, and you'll only feel peace. And similarly with your partner, if you're with someone who thinks, says, and does, and that's a line for them too, that's brilliant. That's such a great, unique, I've never heard that. I've never heard anyone say that. Yeah,

that's awesome. No, I just think that we struggled today to think about what we want in someone. Again, like what you said, if you don't know who you are, similarly what we want, what we want is based on the movies we watch, what we want is based on the music videos, what we want is based on what our parents had or didn't have. Right. Right, so many of our beliefs around relationships are filling that void. I wrote down a list of things that I wanted in a man, and I was like,

and it was like my top 10, I wrote it down, I folded it up, put it in a box, and then like poof, a year later I got it. That's not weird. Write it down. It's a good thing. But I didn't write down consistency. He just came with that.

Oh, okay. It was just a coconut. Did you take this to all your dates and were you like under the table? Can you imagine? No, thank God. No. But my mom, when she was dating, your dates and were you like under the table? Can you imagine? No, thank God.

My mom, when she was dating, she definitely had this guy share his list with her. And he had a list. He had a list. He had a list. What was the woman he was looking for? He had a list and he crossed out long hair and put loyal instead. Oh.

That's awesome. I love how they're in the same category. It's like long hair and loyal. That is brilliant. I picked out two of the most asked questions about relationships this year on the internet from Google. So I want to ask them to. So they are the first one is what does a healthy relationship look like? That's one of the most Google things about relationships. Oh, that's so funny. What's the, okay, it was healthy really. Just you're up in New York.

No, I, yeah, no, I think it's a good question because I think a lot of people want to be in healthy relationships and for me I think that when you and your partner are making each other better you know that song you make me a bit yeah like that's real because if you're making fabulous neo there we go yeah we're the same age but I think that when you're making each other better and you can put each other first and then at the end of it you can both adore each other, that to me is a perfect relationship because you've in a sense got it all. Yeah, I love that. Great answer.

And we'll play that song some more as well. Yes, you make me. And you got to grind a little bit. Like, grind a little bit. Like, hmm. Hmm. Grind on your partner. Oh, God. Oh, I'm just thinking of fabulous and neo grinding each other. No, no, no. No, I mean, never.

Maybe, yeah. Sorry, fabulous and neo. I don't know either of you, but not putting that on you. The second most Google question was, how can you build trust in a relationship? Consistency. Okay. Oh my gosh. I how can you build trust in a relationship? Consistency! Oh my gosh, I mean, I think trust in a relationship

is something that is built over time, but that you talked about how your actions, your words, and what was it? Your thoughts, all have to line up. But what I've always understood is that if your actions will always speak louder than your actions, your actions will always speak louder than your words. And you can say that you want to do something and not actually do it.

So if you're doing what you're saying and you're saying consistent with that, then you're definitely going to build trust. 100%. Like, that's it. Like, my husband and I trust each other so incredibly that it's like, we sometimes we don't see each other for a couple of weeks. And it's, you know, we do a quick check-in text message every day because that's a rule of ours but but that's it like because we just trust each other. Yes absolutely yeah love is a verb non

and noun. Yes that's fair to show it and that's why I think so many people get lost because you can have an abusive relationship with someone says I love you because we think love is a noun. We've never done that. We hear love, but you don't feel it. And then you can be in a relationship that's ownership. Like it's not a partnership, it's ownership. Like someone feels like they own you, but they say I love you. And again, but when you realize the love is a verb,

you can then very quickly judge whether someone actually loves you or not. And love is a verb, y'all. Yes, love is a verb not a noun. It's so easy to get lost in just being hearing the right stuff. And if we've never heard it before, it sounds intoxicating, right? It's amazing. It's such a wonderful feeling to hear that you're loved, even if you're not feeling it. And I love that way that you're talking about how actions are louder than words ultimately as well. That's same point being made.

I love that. And then the third question I had about that well. That's the same point being made. I love that. And then the third question I had about that was, what's the best relationship advice you've ever received and who is it from? I know you probably say your mom. So no, it's not this time, okay. No, I mean, sadly my mom and dad's relationship

only lasted 26 years and I think she learned a lot. I learned a lot from her divorce as well, but my grandmother actually told me when I got married she goes, actually choose your battles. Not everything has to be a fight. And not everything should be a fight. So if you feel that this is a disagreement, don't make it into a battle, just handle it right then and there. And that's what I choose to do now. Justin and I don't even fight. It's like, and if we do, we're just like, this is what I think. No, this is what I think. No, this is what I think.

Well, are we gonna choose to disagree or are we gonna actually get down to the nitty gritty of it? Okay, great, done. And we don't go to bed mad at each other. Have you ever gone to bed mad at your wife? No, we've been out of our rules too. Yes, it is like the biggest mistake

of your life if you do, because you sleep terribly, you wake up in the morning, you're just like pissed off at everything. And then you have to, it takes all day to fix it because you've slept on it all night. Don't go to bed mad at each other, people. Yeah, no, it's great advice. And I love that.

You said this, rules, like you said, one of our rules is when we're away from each other, we message each other. Yeah, we have a few rules. I'd love to hear them. Yes, please share. There's that, we have to check in at least once a day. We don't go longer than, we don't go longer than two weeks without seeing each other.

Amazing. Because that's like for us, it's like the breaking point. Yeah. And we always respect each other, even in a fight. If there's a fight that breaks out, it doesn't matter. We have to respect each other. I love that. Yeah.

Don't feel like you have to hurry up. It's fine. No, no, no, no, I'm just watching the time. I need to be careful. Yeah. But no, no, no, I think that's an awesome answer. I love that. Don't feel like you have to hurry up, it's fine. No, no, no, I'm just, I'm just watching the time. I need to be careful. You're like, yeah, but no, no, no, I think that's an awesome answer. I love rules. I think rules are really, really important. And people feel rules ruin spontaneity, but actually it does. No, it doesn't.

You think that spontaneous act. We're not talking about that. Like just make rules for regulations within, like, the time that you spend together or how you treat each other. Are you communicating? How often you treat each other. Are you communicating? How often do you communicate? Just set standards, right? Setting standards.

So then no one's let down. And I think a lot of us, we think that spontaneity and dynamism is lost with rules, but actually rules just enhance that. It gives you more opportunity to have those. And I've definitely seen that in so many relationships that don't have rules,

that actually just start losing standards and then people end up settling or lowering their standards and then it's lost. Yeah. So, yeah, don't lower your standards. Absolutely. No, definitely. It's so easy to settle in relationships. It is.

It's really, really easy. But in there, it's on that. Yeah. Yeah. And we lower our standards when we're lonely as well. Like, I see that a lot today that I see friends who see all their friends are in a relationship and then you want a relationship because your friends are in one. And so loneliness becomes your metric of why you want someone.

Then you're just like a serial data or serial sleeper around her. Exactly. Exactly. And what you said about arguments is so important. There's this incredible study by John Gottman and John Gottman and his wife. I don't know how long they've been married, but they're very, very, very old. I literally got to see them at a conference who were speaking out and I fangued over them because I love their research and they're both so adorable together, but their research from the Gottman Institute talks about how the number one skill that keeps relationships together is not date nights, it's not cruises,

it's not holidays, it's knowing how to fight. Oh wow. That's the number one skill that keeps a relationship together long times. What you just said there, it's like knowing how to fight. And I know we talk a lot about the love languages, but something I've been playing around with a lot recently is the five fight languages.

What are they? Where do the fight? So we all fight differently. So there are some of us in a fight situation who go quiet. And we just need to retreat. And we need to hide away. And we need to process our thoughts. Then there's another language where it's like,

I need to talk this out right now. This is it. Like we need to have this conversation. Which one are you out of? Those two so far? Or you're not? I'm like both. It's really funny back. Okay, you're back. And then, and then a third fight language is the language of I need to consult someone. So people, I don't like to bring other people into my drama. Neither do I, but you hear it often

where people are, oh, I need to talk to this. I need to talk to that. Another fight language is the language of instant blame. Like you just start blaming that person straight away. Like you don't want to take any responsibility for it. And of course we start. I'm scared juvenile. Yes, very, but it happens. I know. I'm sure you've experienced or seen it. Look, I've done it. I'm not going to sit here and lie to you, but like geez. Yeah. Hearing you say it, that that's like an actual trait. I'm like, I don't do that. Yeah. We, we treat it. And this is why I tell people, whenever you have an emotion, voice note it

and play it back to yourself. Isn't that good? And you realize how silly it sounds. If you're complaining about your partner or an argument or anything, voice note, record it and play it back to yourself. Interesting. And you will hear your voice

and then it will sound like someone else is saying it to you and you'll be like, oh, because what we do is, we take our emotions really seriously. But when a friend's saying something, we're like, oh, because what we do is, we take our emotions really seriously, but when a friend's saying something, we're like, oh, come on, get over it. And so when you hear your voice as if it's a friend sharing it with you, you can kind of go.

The other thing that I just, Bernet Brown, I was talking about is like, what's the story you're telling in your head? And when you can say the story that you're telling in your head to your partner and vice versa, the story's never line up. Yes. So I was like, oh, I'm gonna bring that into my relationship. the story that you're telling in your head to your partner and vice versa, the story's never line up. Yes.

So I was like, oh, I'm going to bring that into my relationship. I just love that idea. Yeah, exactly. Because so many people, they think so differently. Totally. And that's totally fine too. I think we're always looking. We're always told, find somebody thinks like you, find somebody a lot.

Yeah, good luck. Yeah, it's exactly how I'd exactly be. Good luck finding someone with the same love language too. Yeah, exactly. And you don't need to either. That's the problem, right? So, yeah, it's crazy. OK, we've got time for a couple more questions.

I wanted to talk about your partnership with Ellen. Yes. Because I'm about to embark on that journey. So, you're with them. Are you shooting soon? And experienced. Yeah, yeah. OK, great.

So, very excited about it. But you've got season two of fearless. Yes. Coming up, when's it coming up? So we start shooting fearless really soon. And it's just been so incredible because I've been able to go to some, like meet people from even cities that I'm from and and and just open up a whole new door that they never thought could ever be even cracked.

And it's like we're giving opportunities to people who have felt like the underdogs who have felt not even worthy to walk into their greatness or into the ability that they've dreamt of. And being able to work with Ellen and her team has been this like incredibly eye-opening experience that I've absolutely loved. And just seeing people's lives change right before your eyes

is also just... Oh, you've got people in tears. Oh, it's literally like every episode. It's like, yeah, it's a sound. It's like, oh, so it's been absolutely amazing. Yeah, I've had so much fun. You're gonna have great, you're gonna have great. Yeah, it's been beautiful to watch too.

I feel like the emotion that's captured in season one, is just unbelievable. Like you're seeing people literally break down, having a great time. False to their needs. Or just fallen people's arms. And Ricky, who transitioned, it was, that was this incredible moment.

He had never met a trans person before in his life. And then there's LeVeron Cox. this like incredible moment he had never met a trans person before in his life and then there's Leaver and Cox and here we are, you know, giving him money for his operations and it's just like boom, boom, boom, it's just it's like it's heartbreaking to see that these opportunities had never been afforded to him but it's also just so incredible to see that that we were able to to give him the space to be himself. So you know, I mean like and everybody's story is just so incredible to see that we were able to give him the space to be himself. So, you know, I mean, like, and everybody's story is just so different. That was the one that, like, that I kept hearing come back though.

So, I'm excited to shoot season two. That's amazing. I want to go towards the end of our interview now, but I wanted to ask you a question about you've seen and created so many shifts in the beauty industry. Which ones are you really happy about that have changed and which ones are you still trying to change? Well, what I really want to see change is that we don't have to have this conversation anymore. That everything is the norm. That inclusivity diversity is the norm. And I think that things are shifting in that direction, but I've been doing this for 20 years.

And I've never seen something rapidly happen this quickly. And it feels like this wild success within the fashion industry, which I'm so excited for everybody that's been a part of the process. So I think that we need to see more curves on the runway. I think that designers, once they start understanding that not every model or person or customer is not going to fit into this ideal size or ideal beauty or whatever, then more designers are going to be like, oh, okay, well, I don't

have to just keep putting the same type of person on the runway. I don't have to just keep putting the same type of person on a campaign. So I think that that's what I'm most excited to see is like hopefully in the next five years, we see even more of a change. And you know, you've seen the industry changes. A model, her name is Paloma Esler and she's she's been doing incredible editorials that girls women that look like us that have our bodies have never been afforded before. And and there's so many designers like the ones that I had said before, Christian, Proble, Michael, that are just giving so many opportunities for curvy women to be able to dress themselves

in cool, comfortable clothes. And so, yes, there's a long way to go, but we have come so far, which is also so great. Yeah, and I love that you've been such a huge part of that. Thank you. And to be able to sit here and have this conversation with you, like, I think we should celebrate that because it's going to take. I hope that this interview is going to inspire more people in whatever space you're in, whatever industry you're in. Big or small, like it doesn't matter about the scale, but it's about starting to have

a voice, starting to make that shift, starting to stand up for you, believe in what's important. Use your voice. Yeah. And that shift, starting to stand up for you believe in what's important. Use your voice. And that's in the industry. Absolutely. Awesome. So we end every interview with the final five, which is a rapid fire, quick fire round. We do it in pretty big deals.

Ones. You do. Ones are only one word or one sentence, maximum. Yeah. So are you ready? Wait, do you want to talk about anything else that we haven't talked about? I want to talk about pretty big deal.

Yeah, let's talk about pretty big deal. Yeah, because I know we're going to do it when you don't, but yeah, let's talk about anything else that we haven't talked about exciting things? I'm going to talk about Pretty Big Deal. Yeah, let's talk about Pretty Big Deal. Yeah. Because I know we're going to do it when you're doing it. Yeah. But you're going to talk about Pretty Big Deal. Yeah, exactly. So that's the trade, right? Yeah.

Yeah. No, that's why we're doing this, right? Like, we're only doing this because she's having me on. No, I'm excited. So season two, Pretty Big Deal. You know, when we had our lunch and you were explaining your process of how you shoot your podcast, I was like, Urika, I've got new ideas. So I'm excited for season two, pretty big deal to come out.

And, you know, I wanted to start the podcast because first of all, models aren't given the opportunity to have a voice. And. That's such news to me. So having never been in the modeling industry, it's so interesting from a complete outside. Yeah.

Like to hear them and be like, what? How can we ever not give someone a voice? But I get it. Yeah. We are just supposed to be close hangers. Yeah. Just be there and be pretty. Wow.

So, and I've always wanted my own TV show and I've always felt like, you know, I'm a personality. Like, what can I do? But, you know, it's not like people just handing out TV shows. So, I was like, you know what I'm going to do. I'm just going to go make my own podcast because this is the generation like our generation isn't going home and watching TV anymore. We're going, we're on the go and we're very busy. So we're listening to podcasts, we're watching YouTube and it's something that I was like, that's that's my audience. I'm going to go with them and I'm going to talk to them about issues that I've felt very passionate about, talked to them with people that have changed my life, who have been inspirational

in my career and in my growing up. And I've felt really great about being able to just share all those different stories with my audience. Yeah, that's awesome. Who are some of your favorites from season one? I love to say, but... No, no, no. I mean, I loved every interview. Duh. But I love talking in Nortigori, who is one of my friends that is Muslim, and she wears a hijab. And we really got to talk about Christianity and being a Muslim and like, not parallels, but like how we, but how we came from completely different opposite sides of the spectrum,

but that we can have these natural conversations and talk about things that matter to us and be able to share so open and honestly, and I think it resonated with a lot of people that conversation. I love talking to Lilly Singh and Lindsay Vaughan and Amy Schumer. I mean, like, you know, just to name a few. Yeah.

Amazing. And they're all, that's the beautiful thing that I love that everyone you've interviewed are doing such awesome purpose for work. Yes. Everyone on the podcast, a pretty big deal, is doing something meaningful in their industry and trying to create shifts and repose, which is incredible. Exactly.

And that to me is most important. I always love to celebrate other women. Yeah. And I love the name too. Thank you. You know, Jessica came up with the name. Oh. Yeah.

He said, well, you've always been called pretty for a big girl. Yeah. And you're my pretty big deal. So why don't you just say pretty big deal. I love it. It's such a great name. There you go. On top of being consistent and everything else. I know. He's coming up with names.

Yeah, he really does. He really does. I can't wait to meet him. But no, awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. We're gonna go to the final five. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Question one. What is something people would be surprised to find out that you do? Every day. Every day? Oh gosh. That you do every day Every day. Oh gosh Gosh, I don't know every day or anything

Okay, something that I love to do is Ariel yoga Like you hang with the rope. Yeah, I know that. Oh, love it. Oh wow, okay When did you start doing that? Oh probably a couple years ago? Yeah, I've never it. Oh, it like releases your back. It opens your sciatic. It's like, it's really straining for your upper body. It looks really hard to do. It's so hard. Okay. It's so much fun.

For a second, I was like, are you gonna say, no, it's so easy. No, it's not. It looks really hard. That's why I've avoided it. Climbing up the ropes. Awesome. Second question.

What's the first thing you do when you wake up? Definitely press the snooze button. I like interesting. No shame in my game. I don't care. Like, but I love to wake up early because I'm all about having that moment, those moments to myself. So yeah, press snooze. Maybe twars, but that's okay because that's something that's no. For a.m. Right? Yeah. Uh-huh. For a.m. Question number three, if I stole your phone,

whose phone number would I want to steal the most? Well, do you have Ellen DeGeneres number? I do. You do! I love it. I love it. I do. I do.

Oh, God. I don't know. Who knows? I think my contacts are pretty boring. Justin, probably Justin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like Justin. Okay. I don't know who knows I think my contacts are pretty boring Justin probably just yeah Yeah, I like just it okay number four. What do you consider your greatest accomplishment? Oh man I always am so humbled when people come up to me and say like you gave me the opportunity

Just to tell my story to speak my truth to to get into a swimming suit for the first time It's just like those stories that they say because I told my story, I'm like, are you serious? Like it still shocks me to my core that that's something that has, that has changed someone else's life. And to me, grace accomplishment doesn't matter what covers, doesn't matter what anything out there, awards, nothing. Like it is those people.

I love it. And fifth and final question, what's your favorite prayer meditation? as a matter of anything out there, awards, nothing. Like, it is those people. I love it. And fifth and final question, what's your favorite prayer, meditation, mantra that you would be every day to yourself? So, I don't do mantras, like, I have my affirmations, but for me, what I do is I have worship music,

and I sing a lot of like old gospel songs or I love Fred Hammond. And I'll sing out loud to myself and with myself and I'll praise God all morning. And I just, it makes me just so happy. So that's something that I like to do. That's awesome. Thank you, Ashley.

How long was that? Everyone who's been listening or watching, I feel that Ashley said so many incredible insights today make sure that you screenshot them, type them in, share them on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, tag both of us because we'd love to see what you've learned and gained and grown from in this episode. There were countless messages that I was taking mental notes of and I really, really hope that you find them as well. Make sure you go and follow Ashley across social media. It's Ashley Graham on absolutely every platform that you can possibly find. Right. Make sure you look out for Fearless and season two of Pretty Big Deal as well.

And Ashley again, thank you so much for giving me some so happy and grateful and excited for my audience to hear this. Really exciting. I can't wait for you to come on Pretty Big Deal. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. Really looking forward to it. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much for listening through to the end of that episode. I hope you're going to share this all across social media. Let people know that you're subscribed to on purpose. Let me know. Post it. Tell me what a difference it's making in your life. I would love to see your thoughts. I can't wait for this incredibly conscious community we're creating

of purposeful people. You're now a part of the tribe, a part of the squad. Thank you for being here. I can't wait to share the next episode with you. of a vant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, try to get invited to a local's house for dinner, where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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