On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Big Sean: 5 Ways to Get Unstuck From Where You Are Now (Simple Strategies to Eliminate Endless Hours of Work)

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

What makes you feel stuck right now? How do you tackle time-consuming tasks? Today, Jay sits down with Grammy-nominated rapper, multi-platinum artist, and first-time author, Big Sean. This special epi...sode marks Sean’s third appearance on the show, but this time, he’s here to share deeper insights into mental health, purpose, and his debut book, Go Higher, set to release in January 2025. During the conversation, Big Sean reflects on his personal battles with anxiety, depression, and letting go of control. He shares the transformative role of spiritual practices in his life and how they inspired him to write a book that offers tools for self-care, growth, and purpose. Sean opens up about one of the toughest lessons he's ever had to learn — accepting the things he can't change — and how that acceptance became his pathway to peace and clarity. Jay and Sean also explore the power of "separating self from success," where Sean explains why money isn’t the true measure of success. Instead, he defines success as the feeling of living in alignment with your purpose and positively impacting others. In a vulnerable moment, Sean discusses the grief of experiencing a miscarriage and how he and his partner found light in the darkness. He also opens up about his journey with fatherhood, the process of quitting Adderall, and how he manages trauma through intentional strategy and meditation. From music to mindfulness, Sean reflects on his evolution as an artist, a man, and now, an author. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Redefine Success on Your Own Terms How to Use Radical Acceptance to Overcome Life’s Challenges How to Separate Self-Worth from Wealth and Achievement How to Attract Purpose Instead of Chasing It How to Embrace Spiritual Growth for Mental Clarity and Peace Every challenge you face holds the seed of transformation. When you accept your reality and stop resisting, you open yourself up to new opportunities for growth. Let Big Sean’s wisdom guide you on your journey to go higher. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free Monk Mode newsletter. Subscribe here. What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 04:05 Sharing Personal Hardships Through Writing 06:36 Define Your Idea of Success 10:17 The Power of Separation? 12:41 The Kobe Mindset 16:43 Acceptance Isn’t Giving Up 20:07 Attracting Energy versus Chasing Energy 27:09 Learnings From Being a Father 31:39 Living Through Your Kids 33:33 Healing Generational Trauma 35:06 Teach Your Child to Be Confident 38:08 How Do You Become Strategic? 41:42 Effectivity in Being Strategic 45:58 Learn to Set Boundaries 49:35 Respect Your Self 52:55 Don’t Lose Yourself 55:01 Exercising Boundaries 58:00 Affirmations, Gratitude, and Journaling 01:02:44 What’s Your Meditation Practice? 01:07:00 Different Approaches to Therapy 01:08:24 Battling with Addiction and Depression 01:14:26 The Importance of Education  01:17:32 Giving Up Music 01:18:42 Last Conversation with Kanye 01:23:53 Staying Optimistic After Miscarriage 01:26:18 Finding Hope in Dark Times 01:27:34 Living with Miracles Everyday Episode Resources: Big Sean | Website Big Sean | X Big Sean | Instagram  Big Sean | Tiktok  Big Sean | Youtube Big Sean | Facebook Go Higher: Five Practices for Purpose, Success, and Inner PeaceSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 I'm Sheryl Swoops and I'm Tariqa Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to levels to this with Sheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart women sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Nimini here.
Starting point is 00:00:35 I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman. Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeart Radio app,
Starting point is 00:00:58 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey friends, I'm Jessica Kapshaw. And this is Camilla Luddington. And we have a your podcast. Hey friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw. And this is Camilla Luddington. And we have a new podcast, Call It What It Is. You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together.
Starting point is 00:01:21 Big or small, we are there. And now here we are, opening up the friendship circle to you. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every day I wake up, I'm one day closer to death. So what you gonna do with the time you got left? Fix the time, Grammy nominee. Big Sean.
Starting point is 00:01:41 Way up, I feel blessed. One of the biggest blessings is going through a time where you are feeling that you're lowest or depressed or whatever the feeling is because that is just confirmation that you're not in alignment and that you're meant for something different, something greater. What's the difference between attracting energy and chasing energy? Oh boy. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.
Starting point is 00:02:10 The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed. Three things that are so important to the human condition. Today's guest is on for not the first, not the second, but a third time special. One of your favorite guests, one of your favorite interactions.
Starting point is 00:02:35 We both hear about it all the time. I'm talking about my dear friend and incredible artist, Big Sean, Grammy nominated rapper, songwriter, friend of the podcast and now a first time author. His new book is called Go Higher, the five practices for purpose, success and inner peace, which combines his insights on self care with actionable tools set to release in January 2025. Now, despite his achievements,
Starting point is 00:03:06 he has been open about his struggles with anxiety and depression, turning to spiritual practices to find balance. Through his music and now his writing, Big Sean inspires others to overcome their own challenges and reach their fullest potential. Please welcome my dear friend, someone that I believe is so inspiring,
Starting point is 00:03:26 deeply insightful, philosophical, a guy to teach you a leader, Big Sean. Man, brother, thank you for having me. You know, first of all, I just got to say, Jay, though, I'm so proud of you, man. Even since our first interview, like, of course you did, you sparked the idea of me writing a book,
Starting point is 00:03:46 but I'm not making it about me, bro. You've interviewed the president, man. You've interviewed, you have gone to the moon and back. There was a part of the book where I said, the mental health space and that space is dominated by a certain crowd, bro. You are dominating this space. And I just gotta say, it's deeper than that.
Starting point is 00:04:07 It's wellness. It's all of it. And I just got to say, I'm super proud of you, man. Like very, very proud of you. I know, like, where you come from. I know your journey. I know how you grew up. You know, I know the household you came from. And I just got to say, man, I'm very proud of you.
Starting point is 00:04:22 And I see, I see, like, so so much for you and you're still so young and you still so have so much to offer. So thank you so much, man. Oh man, the feeling is mutual. And honestly, it was people like yourself who came on the show so early and trusted the space, opened up and made it a safe space for so many that followed you as well. And so I have to give you a lot of credit back because you came on the show when it was so much smaller,
Starting point is 00:04:51 we were starting out, but it was people like yourself who trusted me, trusted the space, and were able to create it. And you know, this. Look at this, man, come on. That's Rady's genius. She's super smart when it comes to figuring out how to help people. But no, I'm so proud of you for putting this book together because when I met you,
Starting point is 00:05:11 I noticed very quickly that you were already a philosopher and that was rare. Most people live life and then gain wisdom. And you, through your mother, through your own learnings, through your own curiosity had so much insight and wisdom when we met. And I remember mentioning like, oh, one day and the fact that we're sitting here with the book in our hands. Yeah, yeah, you told me.
Starting point is 00:05:35 It's pretty special. And you reminding people to go higher is so powerful. But let's dive in because, oh, sorry, you were going to say something. I don't know. No, I was just saying like, yeah, you really gave me the confidence. As soon as the cameras, sorry, you were going to say something. I don't know. I was just saying like, yeah, you really gave me the confidence. You know, as soon as the cameras cut off, you were like,
Starting point is 00:05:49 yo, you got to write a book, you know. And I was like, wow. I didn't write it for any like vanity purpose. I didn't write it for like, that was that time for me to write a book. I literally wrote it because it was pouring out of me really, essentially. You know what I mean? And it was like, there are so essentially, you know what I mean? And it was like, there are so many people who like trying to figure out how to get to,
Starting point is 00:06:11 how to just maneuver through life. And I've dealt with my like ups and downs and maneuver through things. So it's just like sharing always can help somebody. You never know how you're impacting somebody, how you can change somebody's whole trajectory. I was lucky enough to have these guardian angels in the form of my mom, or the form of my family members, or in the form of friends. The book, The Alchemist, really taught me to pay attention to the omens, you know what I'm saying? So through a song coming on through any aspect of my life, and it was just like, you know, it was a true pleasure to be able to just put like what has worked for me in a way that can people could come back to it, that people can apply to their lives. And, you know, I've gotten a chance
Starting point is 00:06:59 to not only sit and talk to you, but sit and talk to so many of other people that I respect in the wellness space and just an inspiring space, you know, from Deepak to Sadguru to and just my idols, you know, growing up in music. So I apply a lot of things that I've learned into this book and hopefully it helps people. It will. It will help people for sure. I want to stop asking you, you know, you've manifested success and when I spend time with you today and I see you with Junae and I see you talking about Noah, I also feel you've manifested happiness.
Starting point is 00:07:39 And I think those two things are very different. And so I wanted to ask you, what's been different about manifesting success, career, profession, and then manifesting happiness? One of the things about success is you have to define what your idea of success is. I don't think if like, say somebody had a billion dollars, I wouldn't say that he's more successful than me. I would just say he has more money than me. And I think that's the power of separation.
Starting point is 00:08:09 We tie so many things into definition, right? Success to me is a feeling of, it's an emotion. It's something that when your purpose is activated and you are impacting people in any way, shape or form. There's so many ways to impact people, right? Now, there are byproducts of success, like money can be a byproduct of success. You know, when you do something and you create a supply and demand, you get paid for it. But I don't think because you make money that you're successful. You know what I'm saying? And I don't think, you know,
Starting point is 00:08:45 there's a lot of things that you could tie to that. Just like, I don't think, just because if your life isn't going the way you are, that doesn't mean that you let that make you unhappy. Those are two separate things. It's really the power of separation. So for me, success is a feeling, and it's when my purpose is activated.
Starting point is 00:09:01 So I remember I did an interview and they asked, successful, talking about success. And I said, well, I'm not the most successful person in the world. And then I was like, well, maybe I am actually, because I love so many aspects of my life and I'm living in the life that I've always dreamed of. Times 10. I only wanted to have a song on the radio
Starting point is 00:09:22 and like a platinum song and bro I've sold 185 million records or something crazy. I've like taken care of my mom, my dad, a lot of people and lived 10 lifetimes already. So everything has just been sprinkles on top. So to me success is really activating your purpose and happiness is something that you can choose instantly. Your happiness is something that you could choose instantly and it's something that I learned the hard way. Because when I have fallen into like a dark time,
Starting point is 00:09:59 you know, we all go through these ups and downs. When I've been down bad and like the depression comes in, the anxiety comes in, the self-sabotage comes in, and you can hold on to these things and they will stick with you your whole life. You have to decide to let them go. And that's one of the things I talk about in the book. A lot of people may not know how to do that and there are a lot of ways. But one of the first ways is to choose how you feel. You're in control of that. And it's easier said than done
Starting point is 00:10:29 because when things aren't going your way, you're pissed off at everybody. You're like blaming everything. Well, first of all, you have to quit blaming everything else and realize that you're a magnet. You're magnetizing your whole world to you. So if that's the case, obviously you switch it to an emotion that resonates with you. You know, so if that's the case, obviously you switch it to an emotion that resonates
Starting point is 00:10:46 with you more of how, at least how you desire to feel, right? And you can choose that. And I'm telling you, your whole experience will change. So happiness is something you can choose immediately. Yeah. One thing that stood out to me listening to you was the power of separation. I've never heard it like that before. Yeah. And I really liked that term because we have to learn
Starting point is 00:11:08 to separate society's views and our views. We have to learn to separate, as you said, our definition of success and other people's definition of success. And separate what you control and what you can't control. And so how do we develop the power of separation? What does it take to cultivate that within ourselves to have that ability?
Starting point is 00:11:29 Because I feel most of us don't practice the power of separation. It's just the recognition to me. One of the biggest blessings in your life is growing pains. One of the biggest blessings is going through a time where you are feeling that you're lowest or depressed or whatever the feeling is,
Starting point is 00:11:51 because that is just confirmation that you're not in alignment and that you're meant for something different or you're meant for something more, something greater. If you were satisfied with where you're at, then that just is what it is and you probably wouldn't even be depressed. But because you are, because you feel a certain way
Starting point is 00:12:11 or like you're not all the way there, that is just confirmation that you are truly, truly meant for more or something different. So to me, I think that when you recognize, okay, you know, once you start recognizing things of that nature, you can say, okay, what's the first step of getting out of this? And so that's part of the book, I say, you know, accepting where you are, that doesn't mean you have to like, you have to like stay there. That just means accepting the blessings and all the things
Starting point is 00:12:40 that come along with where you are to open up space for more. And you're letting go of all the baggage that is holding and weighing you down. I used to be like that. I used to be like, when things don't go my way, I'm terrible. Oh, this doesn't happen the way I wanted it to or the way I saw it. You know, my whole mood is shot, right?
Starting point is 00:13:00 And I'm not, not to say that things don't affect me when they don't go my way, but I have the armor on now. I know how to deal with it. I know how to get over it and get back to it. That's how a lot of my heroes deal with things too. You know, when you think of like Denzel Washington, like say he has a new movie out, say the movie does amazing and it's incredible and he wins an Oscar. Say the movie comes out and it bombs or it doesn't do as well. He's not going to give up and quit. It's not going to ruin his life.
Starting point is 00:13:28 He's going to move on to the next thing and use that to the power of separation to me. You know, that's a real thing. Yeah. You reminded me of... I love Denzel too. Yeah, I know. You reminded me of... I can't speak for Denzel.
Starting point is 00:13:42 That's just like an example. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of what you're perceiving. Yeah. I remember my football coach growing up gave me this piece of advice and it stayed with me ever since then. He would say to us, if you lose, cry for a night. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:13:57 And he goes, if you win, celebrate for a night, but then get back to training. That's right. So if you lose, cry for a night, but then get back to training. And if you win, celebrate for a night and get back to training. That's right. So if you lose, cry for a night, but then get back to training. And if you win, celebrate for a night and get back to training. It was always about getting back to training the next day. It was like, you can't just sit there and cry for a week or cry for a month.
Starting point is 00:14:16 And you can't in the same way, celebrate for a month. You can't just live off your past success. That's right. Get back to training. And I love that mindset. Someone was asking me. It's like a Kobe mindset almost, right? Yeah, yeah.
Starting point is 00:14:27 Go on. You know, I know you got a chance to talk to Kogi before, and I've actually got a chance to talk to him as well. And, you know, he's incredible. And his mindset was something that I admired so much. And I got a chance to talk to him literally a few months before he passed. And he was just telling me about how he meditates and what it does for him, right? And I just resonated with that so much.
Starting point is 00:14:51 It's really cool because we all are reflections of each other, not just me and you or whoever. It's like everyone that's in your vicinity in your environment is a reflection of a you or a part of you, even if you like them or don't like them. And it's something to recognize that we are all interconnected after you go down to the layers of it, right? You get past the singularity of career, the family, house, this and that.
Starting point is 00:15:19 We're all, you go really deep inside and we're all very similar. We're all the same. We have the same system of order of operations, you know? And it's really a true testament of we all are, everything physical is made of that same, I don't know what you want to call it, prana or love, energy. And as I've gotten older in my life, I see the similarities. I have friends that are in their 60s, 70s. I have friends that are all races and things
Starting point is 00:15:51 and I see myself in all of them. And I think that's something to recognize in such a world of separation. I know that kind of is like a far reach from talking about the interaction with Kobe, but it's just crazy how in everyone that I've been meeting lately and even just from growing up that I've seen, it's like a mirror almost in a lot of ways. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:16:14 Yeah. I mean, talking about Kobe, I think what resonated with me most about him is that he was at peace in retirement and athletes who are retired don't always find peace because naturally it was so important to be on the field. And so no judgment towards anyone but it's so hard to not be on the court anymore and not miss it and want to be there. And he had found a new purpose. And that's the most interesting thing is that you don't get to peace by pursuing it and you don't get to peace by trying to pursue more prizes and more wins. You get to peace by finding your purpose and that's what he did.
Starting point is 00:16:58 And so I want to talk about in your book, because you really give people these five practices. Yeah. And I want to give people a game plan, a roadmap today in our interview so that when they read the book, they can kind of connect the dots between things you've said today. And I want everyone to go out and grab a copy of the book because I really feel it simplifies. I feel like so much of this space is like mystical, complex. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:17:21 Like, and it can take a long time, but what you've done is you've really demystified and go higher your book, the pathway to get there. And I love that you start at accept because I think even though it's a hard step, it's such an important step. This idea that your journey only begins when you accept that where you are is your starting point, that your experience have made you exactly who you're meant to be with the skills, the talents, the gifts. So if someone's sitting and listening and going, Sean, that's so hard for me to accept that I am where I need to be because my life's just been full of, you know, the worst, horrible, difficult things. How do I accept and start
Starting point is 00:18:03 from there? What would you say to them? I would say that I understand some people's lives are not ideal. I'm someone who has seen that experience that can relate to that firsthand. And what I can say is that when you accept it, that doesn't mean that you are giving up. Those are two different things. Accepting it just means, okay,
Starting point is 00:18:30 I'm ready to go somewhere else. And I'm thankful for all that this has taught me, all that this has brought me. I accept where I'm at, but I know I'm made for something else. I know I'm made to go higher, right? But no, but really I'm made to be somewhere else in the world. So, you know, and I think that until you accept that,
Starting point is 00:18:50 you can't move forward because you're just in the middle of it. And I think when you accept something, that's how you get ahead of it. Yeah, yeah. I agree. I feel like it's the resistance to acceptance that blocks us. Exactly. It's like when we're fighting, yeah, when we're fighting, it's the resistance to acceptance that blocks us. Exactly. Wow. It's like when we're fighting, when we're fighting, we're going in the opposite direction.
Starting point is 00:19:10 It's like, it's telling you it's going in this direction and you're trying to force it to go in the other direction and that's what's causing tension. And accepting it means, like you said, not that you're giving up and you're like, all right, well, I'll just do what you want. It's going, no, this is how it's flowing. Now what am I going to do?
Starting point is 00:19:28 There's always a like thread of where you are to where you desire to be at. No matter in what situation, there's never not a way. Or else you wouldn't feel it. Or else you wouldn't be, have a desire for it. But it wouldn't even be in your consciousness. You know what I mean? Like I don't have a desire to go to Saturn because that's just not in my thing.
Starting point is 00:19:49 Right. But I have a desire to the things that I've had a desire to. I always knew that there was a way. So I always know that no matter what opportunity you're in against the impossible odds or against odds, you know, whatever it is, you always have your way to get to where you are. There's always a thread leading you and there are maybe multiple threads. So never be down and out and think that it's impossible. It's really not.
Starting point is 00:20:13 I mean, Mission Impossible is a movie that, where he defines impossible missions, you know? But my point is, it's like, there is nothing that's impossible for you. It's all meant for you. And it's up to you. You know, one of my favorite quotes is, every day I wake up, I'm one day closer to death. So what you going to do with the time you got left? It's like, understand that this is our time right now. The moment is now. These moments, we only have the moment. So a lot of us live in the future and a lot of us live in the past.
Starting point is 00:20:47 And that's something that we have to get out of the habit of. And I think when you accept where you are, you're kind of letting go of that and making an action plan to putting your attention on your intention. And of course you have an idea of where you would like to be, but God doesn't always give us what we want. God gives us what we need.
Starting point is 00:21:04 And sometimes those are the same thing and sometimes they're not. Yeah. And it all works out, you know. Yeah, for sure. What's the, you know, when you're manifesting as we're talking about this, like finding your path, what's the difference between attracting energy and chasing energy? Oh, boy. Attracting energy and chasing energy. Oh boy. Attracting energy and chasing energy.
Starting point is 00:21:26 Well, like I said, when you're chasing something, you're already implementing the energy of it running away from you. You know what I mean? And not to say you can't get it, but it's a lot of effort to chase something. It's like even police on a high speed chase, it's like they might have to crash into other cars and they're chasing you.
Starting point is 00:21:47 And when you attract something, it's a, you are using the powers that have been granted to you from God, universe, whatever you call it or believe in of it magnetizing to you. And you have that power. It's been the power that's been, you know, we use it on a level, on small levels every day. Even if you just said in a day, hey, today I need to take a shower. That's literally, you set a goal, you did it, it's done. You can do that on a scale of anything that happens.
Starting point is 00:22:19 And some things may take a lot more time than others. You know, we have these ideas and expectations we set for ourselves, but that's on us. You know, that's our ego sometimes, that's our, you know, wants and desires and our minds sometimes getting the best of us. And I think that things do take time, but there is always a way.
Starting point is 00:22:41 And, you know, you can never count yourself out. Hey y'all, Nimmini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop. brings history to life through hip hop. ["Flaash Slam," another one gone,
Starting point is 00:23:05 flash bam, another one gone, the cracker, the bat, and another one gone, a tip, but a cap, cause another one gone." Each episode is about a different, inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15 year old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus
Starting point is 00:23:22 nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And if you get with me Did you know, did you know I wouldn't give up my seat Nine months before Rosa It was Claudette Goldman Get the kids in your life excited about history
Starting point is 00:23:39 by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to historical records on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian and basketball hall of famer. I'm a mom and I'm a woman.
Starting point is 00:24:04 I'm Tareka Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts, you know, just all the shit we go through. Because no matter who you are,
Starting point is 00:24:33 there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to levels to this with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In a galaxy far, far away. No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember? Right. In our own world, we're Right. In our own world.
Starting point is 00:25:05 We're two space cadets. And totally normal humans. Sure, totally normal humans. Embark on a journey across the stars, discovering the wonders of the universe one episode at a time. We'll talk about life, love, laughter, and why you should never argue with your co-pilot.
Starting point is 00:25:21 Especially when she's always right. Right. And if we hit turbulence, just blame it on Mercury retrograde. Or Emily's questionable space piloting skills. Hey, join us on In Our Own World for cosmic conversations, stellar laughs, and super corny dad jokes. Listen to In Our Own World
Starting point is 00:25:39 as a part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid any black holes. Most of the time. What's been the most difficult thing you've ever had to accept? The most difficult thing that I've ever had to accept is that the things that I can't control.
Starting point is 00:26:05 I used to let the things that I can't control, control me. Give me an example. How someone perceives your art. As an artist, like Erykah Badu says, we're emotional about our shit. I think she said something like that. That never changes. Well, you can't control how someone perceives you.
Starting point is 00:26:26 All you can do is put, first of all, to make something, to write something, to have an idea and actualize it is, that is really the win for real. I'm not just saying that. That is like, come on. You know what I mean? You literally manifested something. How people consume it. If you impact
Starting point is 00:26:46 anyone, that's literally a bonus to it. That's why we do it, but that's, you literally changed in the world. So one thing I've had to accept is like, yeah, how people, like I can't control what people think of me, their perceptions of me. And when I try and control that people think of me, their perceptions of me, and when I try and control that, it takes me off of my path that I'm on of where I need to go. You know?
Starting point is 00:27:13 So that's been, that is something hard and you have to separate. Like I said, that power of separation of doing what you love to do and not tying it into how people perceive it. Those are two separate things. Which is so hard. It is.
Starting point is 00:27:29 It's so hard, isn't it? And I loved what you said that when you get fixated on what other people think of you, you're just getting distracted from your path. Of course. Because now you're placing energy on, and then you might even shift what you're doing to try and appease them and then they still won't like it. And that's the craziest part, right?
Starting point is 00:27:48 You do what you want and they don't like it, and then you do what they want and they still don't like it. And then you don't know who you are anymore, no one likes it and you don't like it either. And you end up not liking yourself, trying to get everyone else to like you. And that's where you don't want to be at. And that's where you don't want to be at.
Starting point is 00:28:03 And then you're kind of like back to a square one position of like, okay, having to reestablish yourself and you know, you got to be right with yourself first. So you nailed it right on the head, man. It's like, you know, you can't really live your life for other people. I always say that's a business you'll never be successful at is the business of trying to please everyone. And then when you do please everyone, it's like, are you pleasing yourself?
Starting point is 00:28:31 It's a hard lesson as well for people because we all naturally wanna make the people around us happy and our childhood has so much to do with that. We were speaking a bit earlier and I was talking about how like I was the peacemaker in my family. I was the mediator. I was the person as a 10 year old.
Starting point is 00:28:50 Wow. And so I was always trying to keep the peace and listen to people and understand them and understand what was going on. And so I always had to read in between the lines and I always had to have a great sense of when something was going to kick off and how did, and I wasn't trying to make peace in the sense of like, everyone's just got to get along. I was always trying to get to the root of it
Starting point is 00:29:11 and go what healings needed here. And I don't know, I just always did that. And I- You know what's special about that, man? Is that I think that we choose our parents before, you know, I think as spirits we choose our parents. This is what I believe, right? It's just a concept that I believe.
Starting point is 00:29:29 And some people will be like, well, that's, I was in a family where it wasn't easy. This, I would have never chosen that, but you don't understand that, you know, to be one of the billion of sperm that make it into the egg and conceptualized, you really fought to be in this world. And I truly believe that God doesn't give you what you want,
Starting point is 00:29:51 God gives you what you need first and foremost. And you don't know how the development, there are some people who need a nurturing family that's perfect, right? And then there are some people who actually learn maybe even more and become more of a positive force for the world to change it by learning of what not to do from their parents directly all the time,
Starting point is 00:30:13 or not all the time, but like in certain situations. So I just think that you being the mediator, you were on a course, you were learning at such a young age of things to apply or what not to apply to your marriage. And the fact that you were that, because we talked about it off camera, the fact that you were a mediator, the fact that you were that for your family
Starting point is 00:30:35 at such a young age, it's just incredible. Because look at the path that has led you to. Man, you're impacting everybody, man. You're impacting like the world, you know, and me and families, and you're really changing it with like the person you are in the heart that you have, you know, so wow. I just gotta pay my respect to you.
Starting point is 00:30:55 No, you're too kind, man. I got lucky, I met good men. I feel like important people, and we've talked about in previous interviews when you've come on about your mother's role in your life. Oh yeah. And how pivotal she was and for me, my monk teachers, you met Radhanath Swami. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:31:09 When he came to my house, you and Jumay came over a couple of years back. Amazing. And you met him and meeting him was so pivotal to my whole spiritual journey. I was going to ask you, I mean, talking about kids picking their parents, Noah picked you. Yeah, he did. Talk to us about how fatherhood has transformed your views on the learning experience of what you've learned from fatherhood that you couldn't have learned
Starting point is 00:31:31 from anything else. Well, when you have a kid and you see them and they look like you and they look like their mom, you see that they smile like you or smile like her. You see all these things and you realize, okay, and then they kind of look like my brother and they kind of look like her granddad and her, you know, all these different family members, right? And you're like, this is really crazy.
Starting point is 00:31:51 And he'll do something that is like reminiscent of what you used to do, right? So then I realized that, okay, the DNA is like a computer. It's information that gets passed on, on and on and on. So you're really the culmination of a whole lineage, right? And in you. So one of the things that I learned from him,
Starting point is 00:32:13 because there are times in my life where I'm like, man, I wish I could talk to my grandma. My grandma was a female black captain in World War II, man. She was crazy. She was incredible. And like, or my granddad, they met in World War II, right? Or like, I wish I could like, I'd be like, man, I wish I could like speak to them or like,
Starting point is 00:32:29 get advice from them now, you know? I only known them as a little kid. And then I realized that the information is already in me. All I have to do is just go deeper within and really connect with that. And that's something that I learned from my son being born. Somehow that clicked is like,
Starting point is 00:32:48 he is the culmination of our lineage. All the DNA from my side, from his mom's side, and so on and so forth. And he's got something special going on. So that's one thing I learned. And another thing I learned is to go back to the simplistic beauties of life. When we're on walks out in nature, he's so fascinated with like the flowers and the birds
Starting point is 00:33:13 and like just like, oh, the this or that or bug B, you know, he's like, and it just, it gave me a whole new excitement for that. And I really appreciate him for teaching me. I feel like he's teaching me as much as we teach him. I feel like he's teaching all of us a lot as well. And he's also teaching all of us that like, hey, we can be happy right now. He's like, even if he's like distraught or something, he'll go do something and be happy right there. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:33:41 And he chooses it. And I love that. Man, I'm so glad I asked you that question because I knew you'd have such a deep answer for it. Like your answer, the first part of it, the idea that your child has all of that within, like you were just saying, you wish you could talk to your grandparents.
Starting point is 00:33:57 Which I wish I could interview your grandparents. I mean, that sounds like a phenomenal journey and story to hear about it. And I wanna know how much more you know about what they did or how much you don't. But I love the idea that we actually have it encapsulated within us. Like it's coded in us. It is. And even if we're unaware of it, and I was talking to a researcher the other day,
Starting point is 00:34:19 I was doing some research for my next book and she was talking to me, we were finding this research that was talking about how when kids are told their ancestral stories, they have a much deeper sense of belonging. And so the reason why so many of us feel so lost today is we've never been told deep stories about where our parents come from, where our grandparents come from, what they went through. Not in a way to make us feel like a victim or a feel at a disadvantage, but to hear a story from the perspective of this is your heritage. Yeah. And then you feel like you belong to something so much more bigger and beyond you.
Starting point is 00:34:57 Whereas most of us are just like, oh yeah, I'm from West Hollywood or whatever. Right. It's like, it's such a like, you know, it's like a temporary residence. It is. But like when you know you belong to something eternal, like I was talking to the research, I was saying that in my life, the things that have helped me the most when I'm going through a tough time, a difficult time, a real low is recognizing that I'm part of a 5,000 year old tradition.
Starting point is 00:35:24 So when I'm repeating the Gita, which is a 5,000 year old scripture, which is the text I learned as a monk, when I realize I'm connected to that lineage, I feel unstoppable. Because I'm like that survived for 5,000 years, I'm going to be all right. Like I'm going to be okay. Whereas when you just think like,
Starting point is 00:35:44 oh man, I've just been on the planet for like 30 years and I'm going to be okay. Right. Whereas when you just think like, Oh man, I've, you know, I've just been on the planet for like 30 years and I'm trying to figure it out. It can feel quite uncomfortable. And so I love what you're saying that actually inside your son Noah, there is the coding of his grandparents. It is in all of us. It's like time traveling. People always try and figure out how to preserve themselves.
Starting point is 00:36:02 You know, there's the expression, Oh, I'm living through my kids or I'm living, that's real. I realize how much power these simple expressions have. Tell me more. I like this. Like communication can save a nation or like, you know, but like, yeah, I really feel like we always try and think like, oh, there's not enough time. There's not enough time, there's not enough time. There's a real, real, real truth to I'm living through my kids or whoever, or whoever you choose to.
Starting point is 00:36:31 I don't even think it has to be your kids. I think that your blood, your lineage, it's like you really are, you really do time travel. A thousand years from now, there may be some descendants that look like us, you know, or like slight, you know, you'd be like, Oh, you, you know, I look like my dad's dad. You do? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:36:54 I've never met him. You know, he unfortunately passed, you know, when I was super little, I never even met him, but he's a part of me too. And I think that's also why it's important to work on yourself and to heal certain traumatic experiences because with all this information we pass on, you also pass on the good and the bad, you know what I mean? So, you know, you heal things health-wise
Starting point is 00:37:19 and you heal things traumatic-wise, you know, or trauma-wise and, you know, it's really important to work on yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, because you pass on all of that as well. Yeah, for sure, man. I mean, that's what's so interesting, right? Like within you, you have the coding of the greatness and the heritage, and you have the coding of
Starting point is 00:37:42 the unhealed generational trauma that keeps being passed down. What was something you had to look at in your background and past generationally, traumatically that wasn't healed that you were like, I'm not gonna pass this to Noah. Like this has to stop this time. Well, so many things, so many, like worry one thing. I used to worry so much,
Starting point is 00:38:08 create all of these scenarios in my head. And I think that's like a double-edged sword. When you have an imagination and you're creative, you create, right? So you can create good, you can create bad, but one of the experiences that life has taught me is to never worry. No matter what, you're the one of the experience that life has taught me is to never worry. No matter what you're going to be fine.
Starting point is 00:38:27 You know, I think one of my biggest fears used to be like, what if I lose everything? Right. And what if I have to go back to, you know, growing up in Detroit and the hood, blah, blah, blah. And I, and then it's just like, well, I was, I was happy there too. Like I shouldn't be scared to lose any of this stuff because this stuff is conditional. And it's like, I'm gonna be good wherever I'm at. I remember when I talked to Sadguru, I was like, where's your favorite place in the world?
Starting point is 00:38:53 He's like, wherever I'm at. And I was like, damn. So it kind of goes back to that, that's one of the things I don't want to pass on to him. It's like, you never have to worry. You could be fueled, You could let something inspire you to be greater. You could let something light a fire under you. But like don't ever worry because you have what it takes to get to wherever you got to get to.
Starting point is 00:39:17 You know? Yeah. Yeah. How do you kind of imprint that in a young child? Like how do you... You do, you imprint that in a young child by building up his confidence. And that's one of the things I love about my boy is like he's so confident. He's like, you know, I never am like, that's something that I want to keep feeding him.
Starting point is 00:39:38 Even on the song I wrote about him on my album, I said, I see my inner child in him and still the remnants. Will they lose it to the world as an eminent? Or is it something that me and his mom have instilled in him? And the confidence you lose, you could build again. It's like- So good. Yeah, and like I just want to water that.
Starting point is 00:39:57 I think that when I was a kid, my mom and my dad came up in like a civil rights moment in the country. My mom had to drink from a different water fountain. My family has been through a lot. My mom's great aunt, who was an old woman, my mom would go visit her in North Carolina, was born a slave. So that just goes to show you how close that that lineage is to right. It's like, it kind of feels like it's so far away, but it's not. She was an old woman and my mom
Starting point is 00:40:29 was a baby, but my mom is alive now. So the connection of that is like few and far between. My point being is that, um, my mom and my dad did the best that they could, but they came from an era where they had to really be, don't be too loud, be controlled, don't do, get out of line. Like, you know, my mom would be like, when you get pulled over, like, make sure your hat is off and like, you, people see your face and you be respectful. And I think there was a lot to that, but it was, it was coming from a little bit of a fear-based place sometimes.
Starting point is 00:41:05 And that's something that I recognize, and that's something that my mom has helped me recognize, too, through all of the knowledge she's given me and my dad. But like, one of the things I want to pass on to him is that, like, be confident in who you are because you have what it takes. He has you get to already tell he has a great heart. He has a great spirit. He loves making trying to make people laugh, you know.
Starting point is 00:41:25 Not even at two years old, he was like, before like one year old, like telling, you know, trying to like make you smile. And it's just like, just want to keep watering that confidence in him, you know. Yeah, yeah. And that confidence kind of talks nicely to the second practice in your book
Starting point is 00:41:41 you talk about strategizing. Yeah, strategizing. And I love that you went there because I think a lot of people see spirituality and strategy as opposites or they separate them. Right. And I know we've always vibed on the fact that to me they go hand in hand. Absolutely. Because strategy is just intentionality in action.
Starting point is 00:42:02 That's right. Like that's what it is. Strategy is intentionality in action. Right? Like that's what it is. Strategy is intentionality in action. Right? Yeah, it's like you have intention and then you get activated around an intention and that's how you strategize. But I think often people think strategy has to be conniving
Starting point is 00:42:16 or like some sort of manipulation. But that's not what you mean. So when you say we need to get strategic, how do we build the skill of becoming strategic and what does it mean? Well, I think you recognize, like you said, is there some strategy to me is the key to getting, is one of the keys to move from where you are
Starting point is 00:42:39 to where you have to be because you identify where you desire to be because you identify so much and you get to research, you get to plot and plan. Nothing that is really amazing in life doesn't come without a plan. You know what I mean? There are a lot of spontaneous things. And I do believe in the energy of spontaneity.
Starting point is 00:43:08 And like, but strategizing to me is so important. And there's so many ways to do it. You know, you could like study someone from afar. That's kind of one of the beauties of the internet is like you can kind of study and know someone you really respect. Or you may have someone in your family or you may have someone in your family or you may have someone in your neighborhood
Starting point is 00:43:28 or you may have someone, but even say someone from across the world that you really respect, you can study a lot of their, what they have put out in the world. And sometimes that's all you need. There have been times where when you get to know someone fully, you might get let down a little bit. It's like, cause you have all these expectations and you meet them and it's like, wait, what?
Starting point is 00:43:48 You know, but I think there comes again, the power of separation. Like you got to separate that and you know, so I know I'm talking a lot, but I do think that like strategizing is a real key to happiness. And it doesn't have to be like a deep thing. Strategizing could just be as simple as writing your intentions down, strategizing your day. How are you gonna approach this?
Starting point is 00:44:17 I always like, before I get into a studio session or anything, I always like meditate and I write down what I would like to experience in the session. You know, what am I, what would I like to get done? How would that feel? And I kind of lock onto that feeling before I go and do, do what I got to do. Yeah. I'm glad that you pointed out that strategizing is starts with studying because then it becomes you study something and then you apply it. And that's what strategy is. You study it first and then you apply it.
Starting point is 00:44:46 And I was thinking about it, as you were saying, like strategizing your day, I was thinking about, if you think about New York, it's a grid system, that's a strategy. That's a strategy. It's a strategy, like that's what it is. If you look at, if you travel to Europe, you'll see there was a strategy in how towns were built
Starting point is 00:45:01 where like the church would be in the middle of the town. Exactly. There'd be a river middle of the town. Exactly. There'd be a river flowing through the middle. There'd be a bridge over the river. There was a strategy in how it was built in order to create an experience of the city. And I feel, you know, that's what it is. It's thinking about your life and thinking, what are the pillars and priorities in my life? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:45:21 Like what are the things that are like, almost like building a city. Exactly. Right. It goes, okay almost like building a city. Right? It goes, okay, well a city needs a fire station because sometimes there's going to be a fire. It needs a school because I need to learn. It needs a hospital because sometimes you're going to get ill. Like what does a city need? And you got to look at your life in the same way and go,
Starting point is 00:45:40 what does my life need? And sometimes that's exactly what your life needs, a structure. You know, when you feel like you're all over the place and things aren't happening, sometimes you just need a little bit of structure and strategy to jumpstart it and build the foundation to build on. You know, so that's a perfect analogy. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:45:55 What was the best strategy you ever built to achieve something in your life? What example would you give from your own journey? When were you most strategic effectively? There have been times where I was very strategic and times where I wasn't and one of the times in my life where strategy really helped out was just like I would say securing my first record deal. I always knew I would get a record deal. I would talk about it frequently with my friends in eighth grade. I would talk about when I, when I sell out the this, the, when I sell out the Palace, Auburn Hill, all these things that I did ended up doing later.
Starting point is 00:46:35 I just knew it was going to happen. I just didn't know how. And we all know that you can make plans and God laughs at it, but I really feel like when your heart's in the right place and you have the intentions and you put a little bit of strategy to it, okay, like one of the things that I always wanted to do is like, okay, how can I get on the radio? You know, how can I be, how can I,
Starting point is 00:46:55 how can I be on the radio? Then I, you know, did some homework in my friend. Oh, there's a radio show where you can battle rap and end up rapping on the radio, you know, and people would, okay, that's a way to get on the radio. So how do I get down there? Okay. Oh, so I need a ride down there.
Starting point is 00:47:13 I would like plan out every aspect. I need to make sure I have a ride to get to the radio station to be able to battle rap. Okay. I need to plan. I need to write a rap for the, when I get on the radio, so I have something to rap over, you know? And so it's like you strategize every aspect of it. And it can be fun.
Starting point is 00:47:33 It doesn't have to feel like homework. It don't gotta feel like schoolwork. None of us wanna do more work. In fact, when you strategize, you probably are eliminating a lot of work, a lot more work. Don't get fooled thinking that like you're getting ahead by not doing the work.
Starting point is 00:47:48 I'm telling you, when you strategize and plan things out, you're eliminating hours of work. So that is the reason, you know, a lot of us may not have time to read this book, you think. Like I don't have time to read a book. I'm telling you, like reading a book, not just my book, but a book that impacts you saves time. It doesn't have time to read a book. I'm telling you like reading a book, not just my book, but a book that impacts you saves time. It doesn't take time.
Starting point is 00:48:09 Oh, I'm so glad you said that because that's all it does. All it is when you're learning, all it does, it saves time. It stops you from making mistakes. It helps you avoid the ones that someone else made before you. You probably make some new mistakes for sure. Yeah, of course. But you'll avoid so many. And I loved what you said, the way you broke it down, like ultimately
Starting point is 00:48:30 strategizing is building steps to that goal. And you're trying to break it down to the step that I can do today. And now that is small and easy all the way up. And I love the way you worked backwards where it's like, all right, I want to be on the radio. All right, let me break that down. Wait a minute, that means I need to go this. That means I need to do this. That means first I need to do this.
Starting point is 00:48:51 Okay, that means right now I just need to do this. And I think sometimes we live on level 21 of where we want to go, but then we haven't got the elevator down to level zero to go up, right? Like we're just, our mind is in level 21. And we get smacked that we're not on level 21. Exactly.
Starting point is 00:49:11 And I'm a victim of that. And I think that, you know, I've gone through experience. I'm not a victim. I have done that before. I've experienced that. So I know how frustrating it could be, but don't let it stress you unless you let it, unless it's you stress,
Starting point is 00:49:26 there's distress and then there's you stress and that you stress can motivate you. It really can, it could light a fire under you, go through it, distress can kind of weigh you down. So you have the power to take any aspect, even depression and let it either weigh you down or let it fuel you, you know what I mean? So yeah, I think that I know it's a lot of people frustrated.
Starting point is 00:49:47 I get frustrated still. I'm nowhere near perfect. I'm not talking to you as an expert in any way, shape or form. I'm literally talking to you as a reflection of you and someone who has gone through these experiences and have just like, and given the game that I've learned, you know, in straight black and white and examples of how that I've learned, you know, in straight black and white
Starting point is 00:50:06 and examples of how I've done it, you know, so yeah. For sure. You've gave us an idea of when you were strategic. What was the time when you were chaotic, right? So there are times where, yeah, I've let things go. I didn't strategize. Like there's always things you haven't thought about that you gotta come back to later.
Starting point is 00:50:27 When I had to fell out with some family members, even my mom, our relationship got tainted for a long time. And it was like, I was not calling her, I was not checking in, I wasn't doing anything. That a son, and now having a son, I really feel the depth of that. You know what I'm saying? And I could have strategized that better.
Starting point is 00:50:49 You know what I mean? I could have strategized a lot of things better and you always have 2020 in hindsight. Totally, totally, totally. No, and I agree. It's just good to know because, yeah, it's the same for me. And I love how you said that strategy is also sometimes with people, you know,
Starting point is 00:51:06 like we say the wrong thing at the wrong time, or you say the right thing, but at the wrong time, or you say the right thing, but in the wrong way, or you say the right thing, but in the wrong place, or you say the right thing. And, you know, to the wrong person, right? Yeah. It's like, it has to be strategic because otherwise it's not digested. We just think as long as I'm saying the right thing, everything will be okay.
Starting point is 00:51:28 Yeah. But if you say the right thing in the wrong place, to the wrong person at the wrong time, in the wrong way, with the wrong word, the wrong language, it doesn't matter how true the thing you said was. Right. And that's what strategy is,
Starting point is 00:51:39 is going, wait, how do I make sure this lands? Wow. Like what is required for this to actually have an impact on someone and to serve them and help them? Yeah, and that's what we're here to do is to serve, really. In every aspect, this always comes down to being of service, you know? In anything we put out there, in any interview,
Starting point is 00:52:00 in any book, in any song, it's really of service to whatever the moment it relates to, do you know what I mean? So yeah, and yeah, you're right, saying the right thing to the wrong. And the thing is, you're kind of the only one who can dictate right and wrong is so opinionated, depending on who you talk to.
Starting point is 00:52:19 For sure. There are a lot of people who think that anything that we could think is wrong, somebody could argue how it's right. Even down to black and white, somebody can argue that this text that says the exact same thing means this thing, and this means that thing. So I think it's important to come
Starting point is 00:52:44 from a place of understanding. And this leads to something else I want to talk about because just because you understand something doesn't mean you have to accept it. Just because you understand it. And that's something that I had to learn the hard way. I thought that I was being this spiritual guy by if I get into a disagreement with someone, understanding where they come from. And then ultimately turns to me not respecting myself because I'll understand where they're coming from and be like, okay, like I get it.
Starting point is 00:53:17 But the fact that I still get it, it doesn't mean that I can't express myself and I'm not valid. So I want to make sure that everyone knows that because I think that that was something that I learned is to set boundaries. And that's like that big B word. That's like the biggest B word there is as boundaries that I've learned this year. And like that has really, really, really changed a lot of dynamics with people and changed a lot of, it's really created a lot of happiness in my life.
Starting point is 00:53:47 In a galaxy far, far away. No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember? Right, in our own world. We're two space cadets. And totally normal humans. Sure, totally normal humans. Embark on a journey across the stars,
Starting point is 00:54:04 discovering the wonders of the universe one episode at a time. We'll talk about life, love, laughter and why you should never argue with your co-pilot. Especially when she's always right. Right and if we hit turbulence just blame it on Mercury retrograde. Or Emily's questionable space piloting skills. Hey! Join us on In Our Own World for cosmic conversations, stellar laughs, and super corny dad jokes. Listen to In Our Own World as a part of the MyKultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:54:39 And don't worry, we promise to avoid any black holes. Most of the time. What's up, y'all, this is Questlove and you know, at QLS I get to hang out with my friends, Sugar Steve, Laia, Von Tegelow, Unpaid Bill, and we at Questlove Supreme like to nerd out and do deep dives with musicians, actors, politicians, journalists. We give you the stories behind all your favorite artists and creatives that you have never heard. I'm talking about stories behind their life journeys
Starting point is 00:55:11 and their works of art. I love QLS because of the QLS team Supreme. They're like a second family to me. If you're a fan of deep diving into music, everything, almanac-ing your musical history, and learning things about hip-hop artists and things you never thought, then you're a lot like me. But you're also a fan of Questlove Supreme. One of the things I love the most about this show
Starting point is 00:55:32 is that we get to learn from the masters. I look at being on this show as my graduate program in music. Listen to Questlove Supreme on the iHeartRadio app. Have a podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Suprema on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Suprema! Hey friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw. And this is Camilla Luddington.
Starting point is 00:55:52 And we have a new podcast, call it what it is. You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. And what does that look like? A thousand pep talks, a million I've got yous, some very urgent I'm coming up first.
Starting point is 00:56:12 Because, I don't know, let's face it, life can get even crazier than a season finale of Grey's Anatomy. And now here we are, opening up the friendship circle. To you. Someone's cheating? We've got you on that. In-laws are in-lying?
Starting point is 00:56:24 Let's get into it. Toxic friendship? Air it out. We're on your side to help you with your concerns. Talk about ours, and every once in a while, bring on an awesome guest to get their take on the things that you bring us. While we may be unlicensed to advise,
Starting point is 00:56:40 we're gonna do it anyway. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why did boundaries become so prominent in the last year, as you said? I think I was trying to be a hero in every situation I was in.
Starting point is 00:56:57 I'm just an empathetic person, so I love to, I really can feel when people are going through something, even when the world is going through something, it's like I kind of really have to like, really protect myself energetically because I take on a lot of people's problems. You know what I'm saying? I can't help it.
Starting point is 00:57:15 And it's not a good, I don't look at it as a bad thing. I just look at it as how I am. You know, do I wish sometimes that I could just cut things off? Yeah, but it had taught me that I can, I just have to set boundaries on what I can and can't accept. And this year, yeah, there are a lot of things that I was tired of feeling uncomfortable
Starting point is 00:57:34 in certain situations. I was tired of letting people walk all over me. And just because I understood or I get it, I'm not respecting myself. And I didn't realize that I wasn't respecting myself in that. You know, there are times where, yeah, I need to, I can't go to this thing. I can't do this.
Starting point is 00:57:52 Or you know what? I can't go here. I can't go to Dubai and do this show because I have to be here for my son. I gotta take my son trick or treating. You know, I had to set some of those boundaries that may have cost me one thing, but I gained another. And one of the most important things I gained
Starting point is 00:58:11 back from setting boundaries is the trust in myself. The confidence that I feel like I have been building up so for so long. Yeah, and I think we're scared of setting boundaries because we are scared of what we lose when we do. I know. And it could be FOMO, it could be, you know, the fear of becoming irrelevant,
Starting point is 00:58:31 the fear of becoming insignificant. The fear of losing a person. The fear of losing a person. But I learned that too. I remember a time in my life where I had so much compassion fatigue, where I just felt like I was there for everyone else. But I had no...
Starting point is 00:58:49 And when I say income, I don't mean financially, I mean there was no energy income coming in. And you were just a piece of you. You were just a part of you at that point. Exactly. And you're just... And it's what you just said. You're trying to be a superhero and you're trying to be the guy. Not in an egotistic way. You actually just care about people. For real. But I realized very, very quickly at that time that unless I was full rested, complete,
Starting point is 00:59:17 you know, I wasn't actually able to help anyone. I was just giving people my leftovers and not the best of myself. And how to enjoy it. And you got to enjoy your life too. Totally. Totally. And I just found that what really helped me was remembering that I didn't have enough to give anyone else if I wasn't in a good place myself.
Starting point is 00:59:42 Period. And that didn't mean I wanted to get to a good place just for myself. The reason I wanted to get to a good place is so I could give more good to others. And therefore there had to be a structure, there had to be an order of, all right, well, I need to take care of myself.
Starting point is 00:59:56 I need to be full. I need to be ready. And then I can extend myself. But if I keep extending myself to everyone else, chances are I get bitter at them, I'll get mad at myself, and then I won't have anything to give. Yeah, that's right.
Starting point is 01:00:09 Right, yeah, and it's an interesting one, boundaries, because I feel like, I think we also think we set boundaries for other people, but we do it for ourselves. We do it for ourselves. Because people always be like, oh, this person keeps breaking my boundaries. And I'm like, well, no, you keep breaking your boundaries. Exactly.
Starting point is 01:00:25 Right? No, yes. It's, you know, it's like the boundaries, forgiveness, they're not just there for you, you know. Forgiveness is for you as well. And boundaries are for you as well. Yeah, it's been tough. I think that I grew up letting people walk all over me. I think I grew up by letting people take advantage of me,
Starting point is 01:00:48 straight up, you know, just to be real. And I saw that in my parents, especially my dad. He would let people take advantage of him. He was a very nice guy. And there's nothing, like I said, right or wrong, it's an opinion, you know, it's just a perspective. So it's not I'm not criticizing him or saying he was wrong in any way. It's just the kind, spirited, hearted person he is. But along with that, you do have to set your boundaries and respect who you are, because you will lose a sense of yourself by trying to take care of
Starting point is 01:01:19 everyone else. You will lose a sense of yourself if you don't set these boundaries. You will lose a sense of yourself if you don't take the boundaries. You will lose a sense of yourself if you don't take the time out to keep connecting with yourself. Even if it's something you love. I lost like the passion of like watching anime. I remember while I was working so hard. It's like I hadn't sat and watch anime. I love watching anime.
Starting point is 01:01:36 I love Dragon Ball Z. I love like My Hero Academia and Demon Slayer and Evangelions and all these things. And that's just one thing that I love. Right. So it's like, I have to take time out to do that because it is really important to me. So I know all of us have demands. Some of us have family, some of us work two jobs, three jobs, some of us.
Starting point is 01:01:59 And you say it's impossible, but I'm telling you, if you make that time, you will create more time to be the better version of yourself in any of those situations, I promise you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The other thing that really helped me as a boundary, and this doesn't apply if something's life threatening or urgent, but sometimes someone would call me up and be like, oh, I had a fight with my wife. I had a fight with my husband.
Starting point is 01:02:27 And my natural inclination was to like fix it. So like, yeah, let's jump on the phone. I'm going to help you through it right now. Because that's how you were as a 10 year old. Because that's how I was as a 10 year old. Yeah. And so on and so forth. Yeah. Go ahead though. And then I realized that actually my new response started to be, yeah, let's talk in three days. And the reason was, A, because maybe I had stuff on and I couldn't run to it.
Starting point is 01:02:51 Like I said, it doesn't apply to life threatening. If someone calls me and goes, I got to the hospital, obviously I'm going to be there. But if someone's saying, hey, this happened, that happened. I realized I may not be in a position to quit everything in my life to go and be on this call. And those three days, that person actually had to do something I realized I may not be in a position to quit everything in my life to go and be on this call. And those three days, that person actually had to do some processing for themselves. And when I was just jumping on the phone with them trying to save and solve their problem,
Starting point is 01:03:16 I was actually just enabling them to not have to process it themselves. So most people in three days would say to me, they text me and go, Jay, actually, I think I figured it out. Exactly. And I'd be like, great, I'd love to hear it. Let's jump on a call. And now they talk to me, be like, look, I thought about it. You know, they said this, I said that, but I've, you know,
Starting point is 01:03:34 and it just showed me that so much of the time we think we're saving people, we're actually just enabling them. And every time we think we're going to solve their problem, we're actually just creating more issues for them because everyone needs to learn to process mentally and emotionally themselves. And so sometimes like jumping in to help someone, you actually end up hurting them.
Starting point is 01:03:58 Wow, man. Because- It's a big one. Yeah, because they need to do it themselves. And so sometimes I had to set that boundary with myself. It wasn't like I don't want to be there for my friend or a big one. Yeah, because they need to do it themselves. And so sometimes I just set that boundary with myself. It wasn't like I don't want to be there for my friend or a family member. I just realized being there for them meant not being there right now.
Starting point is 01:04:14 And they didn't know that. But then when I saw them benefit from it, I realized that actually space sometimes gave them what they needed more than my words could. Yeah, because it goes back to like we were talking about. A lot of the answers are in you. You know, a lot of the things you're looking for, the resolutions, they are in you. And sometimes it may take a little while to rise to the surface
Starting point is 01:04:36 and sometimes they'll figure out. But one of the worst things you could do is impact somebody in the moment of them being emotional or in the moment of rage or in the, you know, influencing them, it could, it could, you could really ruin something, you know, because you're feeding off of their emotions. It's like, yeah, yeah. I should just leave.
Starting point is 01:04:57 Yeah, you should just leave. Like, oh, instead of just being like, hey, take some time to, you know, talk through it. You know, it's really, that's a, that's a real important, great lesson, man. Yeah, it's helped me a lot. That's a great way of exercising boundaries. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Starting point is 01:05:15 What are the daily habits? You talk about journaling and meditation in the book, and I wanna talk about both of them. Because I think they talked about a lot today, but I wanna hear about your deep, specific habits and how it's become such a ritual for you. So let's start with journaling. Like, obviously you're a writer anyway.
Starting point is 01:05:34 It doesn't make it easier, I would say. Yeah, I was going to say, like, what's different about writing music, writing the book versus journaling? Oh, completely different. So music, I don't even like, I kind of just, when I get in the studio, I kind of just let it flow through me. And I learned that from like Kanye and Jay-Z and Common.
Starting point is 01:05:54 Now there are a lot of people who do write on pads, like Eminem, you know, was amazing to me. And a lot of people I know, but how I do it personally is I just kind of like feel through it and let it stream to me and I like go on a mic and like not necessarily freestyle it, but yeah, just piece it together. You got to come for a session one day, but then when it comes to journaling, that's my time where I put like my sword, you know, your pen is like your sword to paper, and you are setting, you're strategizing
Starting point is 01:06:30 and you're setting your intentions of things you may would like to experience. But I also like to do gratitude. For some reason, gratitude just seems to magnetize more of the things that I'm thankful for in my life. I've seen it work in a lot of ways and that's my belief. So the things that you are grateful for, you have to let the world know that you're grateful for because houses are going to know to give it back to you, or to bring it to you, or to the people around you. And it also is a great way for me to, you know, and I practice I am, it's so much power.
Starting point is 01:07:06 So I am grateful, I am this, I am happy, I am confident, I am happy that I get to sit down and talk to my friend Jay today, you know. I'm happy I get to whatever the case is, right? So that's what I do and then at the end of it, of the journal, of the, when I do the case is, right? So that's what I do. And then at the end of it, of the journal, of the, when I do the gratitude stuff, and there are times where I write how I feel, not as much. I also speak out loud by myself.
Starting point is 01:07:34 You know, there are a lot of processes I do, but when I do that journal, I sign it at the bottom of it, like a contract. And I like, I sometimes I put it is done, or I put like, so be be it because it's a declaration. Oh, I like that. When I do that. And I sign it because it's that important to me.
Starting point is 01:07:52 I have to sign my contracts. I have to sign things that will be upheld as an important thing. And that's how the level of importance even more that I hold that too. So I sign it every time. That is so good, man. I've never heard that before. I'm going to start doing that I hold that too. So I sign it every time. That is so good, man. I've never heard that before. I'm gonna start doing that. It's powerful.
Starting point is 01:08:09 Yeah, I've never signed it. That's dope. It's powerful. And Jay, does everything I write down come to fruition? No. Sometimes it does. A lot of them do. And then I realized that I'm also on God's time.
Starting point is 01:08:22 So the things that I've always wanted and things that I've desired, it may not just be the right moment in my journey for that. But that's the beauty of it, man. I'm like, I'm still here. I'm still able, I'm still inspired. I'm still passionate, you know? Beautiful.
Starting point is 01:08:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's how I do my journaling. I also have like a, there's a book I have of poetry too that I like write poems and stuff. I only write a few a year, honestly, but I'll like fully write and draw around the poem and it's really like a beautiful art. It's just something I do for fun.
Starting point is 01:09:01 I haven't actually, I've only written one this year and last year I wrote a few, so've only written one this year and last year I wrote a few so maybe I'll maybe inspire me to write one today but that's kind of all it is but I don't spend too much time on it. Takes me about five to twelve minutes. That's great. Max. And then I meditate after that because it kind of like it's kind of like a good transition to like the energy is set for me to meditate. Because when I meditate, I feel like I'm attracting these things more and giving myself the best shot of being the most productive,
Starting point is 01:09:35 the most impactful that I can be. So that's kind of the first thing I do when I wake up if I can. Being a dad though, there are times where I get, I get woken up and I have to go immediately, you know? And so I come back to it later on. That's not preferred that way, but it's a good trade off. Yeah, yeah.
Starting point is 01:09:58 What does your meditation look like? I love, because I've learned so much just in our journal. I've never heard, so be it, it is done. Or the signature at the end, I'm going to start practicing those three. I like those a lot. Yeah, because it's that important. That is beautiful, man.
Starting point is 01:10:14 I get that. Like what you just said about, we sign contracts, sign checks. Like there's very few things we still sign. Exactly, right? And they're very important things. Yeah, they're important documents and that is an important document too.
Starting point is 01:10:26 I love that. So what about your meditation? What does your practice look like? It depends. I love doing guided meditation sometimes. I love doing... I kind of have my own process where I like and visualize the light of creation, like the light of the sun and it it really filling my whole body up and literally everything that doesn't align with that, anything that isn't that light and bright, you know what I'm saying, immediately leaves my body and goes back into the earth. So there are times where if I'm not in nature, I imagine myself in nature and things going back into the earth and I surround myself
Starting point is 01:11:07 from my, I forgot the word, the esoteric body. I think it's like one inch off you, then your emotional body, then your mental body. And I just do the same thing. It's like a shower of light. It's like hopping in the shower after you work out, all but of light. And whatever it is, I cater to how I'm feeling. So from there, if I have something wrong with my stomach, I'll, for some reason, I associate green
Starting point is 01:11:31 with healing energy, right? And this comes from years of practice, or I associate royal blue with power, the power of the universe. I associate red with the love of the universe, the love and support of the universe. And like, I represent like the violet flame of St. Germain, like to cleanse things that are holding me back.
Starting point is 01:11:52 Right? So I do, I have like quite a process and I break it down in a book. And afterwards, I feel just, it really makes a big difference. And you know, I read this book, The Hidden Messages in Water, I believe it's called, and it talked about, you know,
Starting point is 01:12:10 there's like itty bitty microscopic crystals in water. And they, one of the part of the book, they experiment of like how positively when you speak to water, like, hey, you're amazing, I love you, keep going, like, you're beautiful. And then they had another water glass or container of water where they said like, you suck, it's never, you know, real negative.
Starting point is 01:12:35 And you look at the crystals and one is like a beautiful snowflake looking crystal, and then the other one is like distorted and all damaged. And we are 70, 80% water. and then the other one is like distorted and all damaged. And we are 70, 80% water. So these things, when you write these affirmations down or when you say them out loud or when you journal, these things have a real effect on you tremendously. Like scientifically, it's not even like a woo woo
Starting point is 01:13:01 type of thing. It's not even like, it's not even up for debate. You know what I'm saying? It's literally scientific for a woo woo type of thing. It's not even like, it's not even up for debate. You know what I'm saying? It's literally scientific for the people who are more, you know, need the proof as opposed to, you know, more analytical than like opinion based. So I just want to stress the importance of it. It really is.
Starting point is 01:13:18 And by the way, the most, the most honorable people that I've met and like what I consider to be successful and I don't mean riches, I just mean successful in like the impact, what they're doing, how they are. They meditate, they all, you know, from my favorite rappers down to my favorite, down to you, you know, down to anyone
Starting point is 01:13:40 who I just really admire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can meditate in your own ways. They're like, I know like, J'Nai does different meditations, you know, through sound healing or mirror meditations. I know people who do shower meditations, walking. There's no wrong way to meditate either.
Starting point is 01:13:57 That's another misconception. There's no wrong way to do it. The fact that you take the intention out, or if you focus on your breathing, the fact that you take the time out, or if you focus on your breathing, the fact that you take the time out to be that conscious of yourself, over time you will get more and more into it. It's like anything you do,
Starting point is 01:14:11 and you will see the effects of it. Yeah, what was, have you ever meditated with another rapper that was interesting or anything like that? Like anyone that had an interesting practice that I wouldn't know about? Does Eminem meditate? You know what?
Starting point is 01:14:26 I have never meditated with Eminem, but he is a very, Eminem is a very like amazing person. So I wouldn't be surprised. I know Jay-Z does. I haven't meditated with him, but I know he does. And you know, there are all different ways and forms. Sometimes just sitting and visualizing and like seeing these things is a form of meditation.
Starting point is 01:14:49 It could be your way. So you have to find out these ways that work for you. Just like therapy, it's like, I can't, I can tell you how therapy worked for me, but you may go to a therapist that isn't right for you and be like, oh, therapy is wack, but that's not, that's just but that's just my specific situation. A lot of times therapy for me has pushed me
Starting point is 01:15:08 to the edge of realization and has been the extra push that I needed to sometimes I already knew the answer, but sometimes I needed to talk it through and sometimes I needed to really exercise. And sometimes I did learn something new that awakened the truth in me through therapy and having someone that I could confide in that wasn't truth in me through therapy and having someone
Starting point is 01:15:25 that I could confide in that wasn't a family member, that wasn't a best friend, that wasn't in a relationship with and was able to apply it to all of those other relationships in a very successful way. In a galaxy far, far away. No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember? Right, in our own world. We're two space cadets and totally normal humans. Sure, totally normal humans. Embark on a journey across the stars,
Starting point is 01:15:55 discovering the wonders of the universe one episode at a time. We'll talk about life, love, laughter, and why you should never argue with your co-pilot. Especially when she's always right. Right. And if we hit turbulence, just blame it on Mercury retrograde. Or Emily's questionable space piloting skills. Hey! Join us on In Our Own World for cosmic conversations, stellar laughs, and super corny dad jokes. Listen to In Our Own World as a part of the MyKultura Podcast Network available on the
Starting point is 01:16:25 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid any black holes. Most of the time. Hey, I'm Gianna Predenti. And I'm Jeme Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions, like how do I
Starting point is 01:16:49 speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes! Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, like you miss 100% of the shots you never take?
Starting point is 01:17:19 Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, friends. I'm Jessica Capshaw. And this is Camilla Luddington. And we have a new podcast. Call it what it is.
Starting point is 01:17:45 You may know us from Grey's Land Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. And what does that look like? A thousand pep talks, a million I've got yous, some very urgent I'm coming up first, because I don't know, let's face it,
Starting point is 01:18:04 life can get even crazier than a season finale of Grey's Anatomy. And now here we are opening up the friendship circle to you. Someone's cheating? We've got you on that. In-laws are in-lying? Let's get into it. Toxic friendship? Air it out. We're on your side to help you with your concerns. Talk about ours and every once in a while bring on an awesome guest to get their take on the things that you bring us. While we may be unlicensed to advise, we're going to do it anyway. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 01:18:38 Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, in the book, you talk about how I think it was like in 2016, you said you nearly got addicted to Adderall when you were touring with Rihanna. And I was thinking like, they say like heroin, all these things, right, like just a lot to it. And I'm really into Eastern medicine personally, you know, I used to have heart, a real bad heart problem that I fixed through literally taking magnesium and some other supplements that a doctor told me that I had to get surgery for. They told me they had to cut my heart open and put a pacemaker in it, you know? So when I started
Starting point is 01:19:32 taking Adderall, it's because I was putting myself on a clock that didn't exist. I was putting myself under pressure and I was living in a fear-based way. And I started taking Adderall because I wanted to accomplish more. And it was very- Did it work? It worked, but at the expense of so many things, I honestly, the expense of like my, like affecting my soul and changing the person that I was
Starting point is 01:20:05 and depleting my body, it shut it off. It creates synthetic dopamine in your brain. So it creates all this dopamine, but your natural dopamine that is responsible for your happiness, for your inspiration or your creativity who makes you who you are, it shuts off, it shuts it off. And after a while, you're kind of relying
Starting point is 01:20:26 on this synthetic dopamine only. And I remember as time went on, I would go into the studio and I feel like I couldn't do anything without it. And that's when I knew I had a real problem with it. So I went cold turkey. And that is like, that was probably the second bout of depression in my life that I went through. That was like, that's when I was like wanting to kill myself. Like I was just like, my mom was playing all these tricks on me, right? And
Starting point is 01:20:49 it didn't matter that I had like, I would have a big ass house in Beverly Hills. It didn't matter that I had millions of dollars in the account. And it didn't matter because as great as a lot of those things are, they're still separate. I'm wearing a Lincoln Park shirt, it's the Chester, I can't speak for him, God rest his soul, but who would think that, oh, that someone who's one of the biggest rock stars in the world in a band, regardless of what they talked about in their music, would do that?
Starting point is 01:21:20 Or there's Kurt Cobain, all these things, right? So it's because it's all separate, you know, and I'm not saying that money can't make you happy, by the way, I don't like when like, you know, I don't like when rich people get on camera and be like, money isn't everything. It isn't everything, but it's a lot. It's a resource that is very needed
Starting point is 01:21:42 in anything you need to do in this world. You need it. So it is important. It's very important. I'm not going to you need to do in this world. I agree. You need it. So it is important. It's very important. I'm not going to like sit in here and say it isn't, but it was separate from what I had to deal with at the time. So yeah, it was, I went cold turkey and that's when I stopped everything I was doing and
Starting point is 01:22:02 I called my mom who we weren't on great terms and she came out and was in my house with me. And entry, my mom has always, shout out my dad too. My dad is with me today too. I love my dad. He's like, man, make sure you shout me out too. Like, I'ma shout you out too. Like my dad is great. But my mom at that point,
Starting point is 01:22:21 in those certain points in my life, just a few key points, she knew what she had a solution to offer me always. And I really appreciate that. It's something I hope to do for my kid and kids. And she was like, introduced me to, you know, she was the one who put me on meditation. She just would always introduce me to certain things.
Starting point is 01:22:39 Try this, try this method. And then I started realizing how connected physical, mental, emotional, spiritual are. And I started working out. I started prioritizing myself. I started putting me first, started reconnecting with things I wanted to do. Started trying new things, jumping out of planes.
Starting point is 01:22:55 I was doing, going to the gun range, just trying things out that I was like, hey, that's interesting. Let me try it. And it really helped me reconnect with myself. I started watching anime again. And then, you know, I had to take a break from the studio because I wasn't, I couldn't think of anything. And then I finally got back in and was inspired again and life is the
Starting point is 01:23:14 greatest inspiration. But what I can say is to people who are addicted to Adderall and like other drugs, that that synthetic high is, is very temporary and it's at an expense. And it's different when people who have ADHD who necessarily need it, but there are even other ways to deal with that. And I guarantee you, they will take less of your body. You know, these things, like when these prescriptions,
Starting point is 01:23:41 they mess up your kidneys, your liver. And as simple as that sounds, your liver, your gut, messing up your gut, your gut is your second brain. It dictates so much more than we've been let on to know. I think that's why Roddy is so, you know, into the food because it's not just food. It's like, it's so much more than that. So I know I'm running on and on, but my point is that it was very tough, but you get through it and there on the other side of it,
Starting point is 01:24:15 you come out as like a true champion and you're the source of it. And there's no better drug or high than being high off life. There is no better thing because you're the actual drug. You're the actual source of it. It's not something you have to take to get to there. It's like you are it and you'll be, you can soar.
Starting point is 01:24:37 You can go higher than ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, go higher. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for real. How do you feel your grandmother would feel reading these pages? My grandma was one of the first people to give me a book. It was a book about King Solomon. And that book changed my life,
Starting point is 01:24:57 and it talks about the strategies of King Solomon, how he ran his business, how he strategized, how King Solomon, he wanted wisdom. That's what he wanted, and that's why he was granted everything else. That's why he was the richest man who ever lived, is because that's not what he sought. He didn't seek the power,
Starting point is 01:25:19 he sought the wisdom to help people. And God gave him the resources by making him the richest man. Right? So anyway, you know, so my grandma, she was like one of the first female black captains in World War II. She was one of the first like female police officers, a teacher, a counselor. She was incredible, right? Her and my granddad met in World War II And she was the example of hard work, the example of nothing is something. She lived on the street called Otter Drive,
Starting point is 01:25:49 which was a, that's where Marvin Gaye used to live when he lived in Detroit. It's like a real prestigious street. And I can imagine that that was like one of her proudest accomplishments. So I really got love for her. I think she would read this book and be proud. You know, I think so. And I think that, you know, as a scholar, she would
Starting point is 01:26:09 probably be like correcting some of my grammar and you know, things like that. But she would be very proud. She was very strict in a lot of ways. And she believed that education going to college was a way to a better life. And I went a different way. I didn't go to college. I was like, instead I went to the music. And she knew I had respect for her because I always had good grades. But even when I chose the exact opposite
Starting point is 01:26:37 of what she wanted me to do, she supported me wholeheartedly. And I spent all the bonds she saved up, all the money she saved up for college. I spent it all on studio sessions. And I can't imagine how mad or how pissed off that might've made her. But through it all, she supported me
Starting point is 01:26:53 and I just appreciate, she just shows me how much she valued family. And I was able to buy a house for her and my mom before they passed. She actually saw the music pay off and we used to watch all these Westerns and Jeopardy and all these things. And I remember she was watching Jeopardy
Starting point is 01:27:09 and I was actually a question on Jeopardy. And I talked to her on the phone and she was so like, wow, like, you know. And it used to tear me apart when things weren't working out and I was spending her money on the studio sessions. And we would have Sunday dinner every Sunday and I would have to go and sit there and she'd be like well what's going on with the music you know you need to why don't you just
Starting point is 01:27:29 apply to community college like you could have been halfway with a degree by now it's been two years it's been you know all this time and it broke my heart every Sunday and I did give up you know at one point I did give. So at one point I was over it. I was over music. It wasn't going anywhere. When was that? That was after I met Kanye. Yeah, so you rap and then he didn't get in touch with you for two years after. Yeah, and it was like a blank, you know, and I turned down my scholarships.
Starting point is 01:27:58 I had the college. I graduated school with like a 3.7 GPA. I was like, you know, I had like a lot of academic scholarships, all these things, and I turned it down. And then I was, it was non-responsive, but in hindsight, I look back, he was blowing up in his own way. He was busy, you know. It's not the same. You only see things from your perspective, especially when you're younger.
Starting point is 01:28:21 And yeah, I just was like, I felt like I tried and gave it all I had. And I gave up and my mom, you know, who was a teacher as well, she was the only one who was like, yo, what are you doing, man? Come on, you know? You, you know, you're registering for, come on, you got it.
Starting point is 01:28:39 Like just keep going, you got it. This is what you're meant to do. This is what you believe in, do it. And literally months after that, that's when things started picking up. So it's like, you can keep digging and digging and digging. And before I struck the gold, I gave up. And that's what I mean.
Starting point is 01:28:53 I had those guardian angels around me to keep it going. One thing you spoke about that, you know, I'm really sorry you had to go through it because I had so many friends who've actually gone through it recently, which is why I'm asking, but you suffered a miscarriage. Would you know? And like that, I was talking to so many friends who've actually gone through it recently, which is why I'm asking, but you suffered a miscarriage. Mm-hmm. And like that, I was talking to so many of my friends
Starting point is 01:29:08 who are trying to have kids right now. Yeah, it's super common. Yeah, but it's like that doesn't make it any better. Right, right. No, it doesn't. Yeah, so many of my friends have had it this year, literally in the last 12 months. Wow. Sorry to hear that. Yeah, and it's hard because they're going through a loss,
Starting point is 01:29:24 their partner's going through the grief. But it's, and like you, and it's hard because they're going through a loss, their partner's going through the grief. But it's, and like you said, it's super common, but that doesn't make it any easier or any better when it happens to you. What was something that really helped you through that experience that you think could help others? What was it that helped both of you?
Starting point is 01:29:38 Because it's a two-way thing, it's not just about you. A lot of our problems, we're just processing ourselves. Well, every situation is different, right? So to someone who is experiencing miscarriages, and I can only speak from a man's perspective. I can't speak for a woman who really, their perspective is the most traumatic. But I can say that, first of all, you're worthy.
Starting point is 01:30:03 I don't want you to think you're not worthy. I don't want you to think you're not worthy. I don't want people to think that because they have a miscarriage that they're inadequate or that they're broken. I think that this life is complex and there are things we do and don't understand. And I think there's beauty in everything that's meant for you.
Starting point is 01:30:24 And instead of trying to control exactly how you want your life to be, accept that it's gonna be the life that is meant for you. And you may get blessed with a child later on. You may get blessed with a child that comes into your life a different way. You may get blessed with, you have to keep your, sometimes we get so set on a goal,
Starting point is 01:30:46 we don't keep the rest of our doors open of how the universe could bless us in that way to not only fill that void, but even make it even greater. So I just want to keep an open mind, but to anyone who does experience such an insufferable loss, like do you know, go through it, like express yourself, deal with that grief, but don't let it consume you. You know, um, sometimes you gotta go through it just to get to it.
Starting point is 01:31:15 Yeah, for sure. No, I appreciate that, man. I think it's going to help a lot of them. We've got two last questions for you, Sean, before we wrap. How do you personally find the light in really dark times? Like when you feel distracted from that spiritual light, what do you do to reconnect? Well, to find the light in really dark times,
Starting point is 01:31:36 sometimes you have to realize that you are the light, but sometimes you got to embrace the darkness. You ever notice how when you're in the dark for a long time, you start to see better and things actually get lighter? For sure. I think that it's a natural human instinct to like go into a mode of like fear based.
Starting point is 01:32:00 And it's like, I need the light, I need the light. Where's the light? And instead of just accepting that you are for certain, you are, not only are you the light, that there is a darkness to you too that's beautiful and that you have to accept all aspects of yourself. So, you know, once you do accept it, I think it is easier to find the light or be the light. I think, you know, once you do accept it, I think it is easier to find the light or be the light.
Starting point is 01:32:26 I think, you know, once you really are comfortable in your environment, you will find and see the way to wherever it is you're trying to go. Absolutely, great answer. Last question I want to ask you, one of my favorite things you ask people to do in the book, which I want everyone to do when they get the book, is list five miracles that they've experienced in their life.
Starting point is 01:32:49 I love this idea because when I read this, I was just like, oh my gosh, if you actually stop to think about the miracles that have happened in your life and to really take them in and to really like embrace them and let them pervade your entire being. You start believing in more miracles, you start living in the miracle because often it's so easy to live in the negativity and to live in the toxicity and to live in everything that's the opposite of a miracle. What gave you this idea? Where did it come from and how do you live in the miracle every day?
Starting point is 01:33:24 I mean what I did came from like when you highlight, when you really recognize the miracles and you're kind of supercharging them and you're you always see more miracles. There are so many miracles every single day. The fact that the Sun is at the exact right place and the moon is at the exact right place, and the moon is at the exact right place, and the oxygen is at the exact right, the thing, the fact that we are orbiting is a miracle, bro, for real, if you think about it, because one slight thing, everything is gone.
Starting point is 01:34:00 You know what I'm saying? Everything is gone to shit, fast. So that's one thing, but for me, when you list the miracles that you experienced personally that impact you personally, I feel like it breathes more. So for me, man, being on the pursuit of happiness and being able to actually see my dreams come true to a level is a miracle for me.
Starting point is 01:34:26 Having, this is in an order by the way, having a son is a, you know, that's a miracle. That's for real a miracle because that's like creating something out of nothing. Being able to, man, waking up is a miracle. Everyone don't get to wake up, man. Being able to set goals and pursue them, you know, not even necessarily check them all off, but pursue them.
Starting point is 01:34:53 Being able to eat food and let it give me nutrition is a miracle, bro. You know? So I'm not trying to just sit up here and like be preaching positivity in that sense, but there are so many miracles that happen there. I remember one time I was down at a fireworks in Detroit and somebody was firing a gun and I saw it
Starting point is 01:35:14 and it looked like I saw it and it went past me and it was a miracle I didn't get hit by any bullets. It was a miracle that when I got into a car accident and totaled my car when I was 16, I was able to climb out of the window. I couldn't even open the doors and nothing was wrong with me. I had a little bruise on the side of my pinky.
Starting point is 01:35:33 That was it. It's a little like somebody died in there. There are miracles that happen every day that you may not consider miracles that you have to recognize and you don't even have to question it. That just shows you, bro, that you're here. We are in it.
Starting point is 01:35:49 I love that, man. That was one of my favorite activities and practices. And I hope everyone has been listening and watching today. If you do one thing, it's do that. Yeah, for real. Spend time just mapping out your five miracles. The book is called Go Higher, Five Practices for Purpose. And thank you for writing. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:36:07 In a piece. And thank you for writing the four. Of course. It was beautiful. No, just congrats to you, man. I'm really proud of you. Come on, man. I know I was just at your house like a few days ago. Three days ago, four days ago. We loved it. Eating some amazing food. You really are an amazing person, not just on camera,
Starting point is 01:36:25 like some people, you really are amazing on and off camera, man, your heart is big, it's very inspiring. We have these in our fridge. You're the best. I have all your books on my shelf, I've read them. And, you know, just thank you, man, thank you for being an outlet, thank you for being such a connection,
Starting point is 01:36:45 especially between all of these amazing people and being able to open up and be vulnerable. What I can say is that to everyone watching, you're a product of your environment and you are the chemist of your environment. You have the power to change it in any given time or moment. You know, if you're unhappy with where you are, realize that you have the instant power to change it. It all starts with the mentality first and foremost and
Starting point is 01:37:18 that is like the key ingredient to making anything amazing, you know, So I hope you guys realize that we only have this moment. Anything you've done in the past, you have to let go of. Anything in the future can change, you know, that you have an idea of how it should be and that what else, you know, what are you going to do with the time you got left? It's up to you. I love that man. Thank you for writing this book. The book is called Go Higher, everyone. Go grab your copy. Share it with your friends, your family, people in your life who are looking for
Starting point is 01:37:57 really insightful, simple wisdom that can create shifts in your life, practical advice, practical stories as well. Sean, I'm really glad you've done this with your platform because I think that, you know, it's very rare these days for people to see what masculinity means. And I feel like with you, the strength and the vulnerability which in one sense are the one and the same, but I also think they are different in that
Starting point is 01:38:25 I think there is a need to be strong, set boundaries, be, to stand up for yourself. These are all strength as well. And then at the same time, the softness, the courage, the bravery, the vulnerability, that is too. And so I love how you put those both together. It was an honor to write the forward for this book. And a real honor, like, for you to ask me to do that was, I was very touched.
Starting point is 01:38:46 You could have asked anyone. And I genuinely, genuinely hope that people are going to pick this book up. And I think people are going to hand it to their friends, their family, people in their life. If you want this year, 2025, to be a great year, you've got to go higher. Yeah, that's right. And so I'm excited for you. I'm excited for this next chapter in your life. Thank you.
Starting point is 01:39:07 And I'm excited for this book for many, many years to come. It'll have an impact on people, not just now, not just this year, but for many years to come, people will look back and say, I loved all the music he wrote, but I also loved that book he wrote. Oh, thank you, man. That means everything. And yeah, thanks for allowing me to communicate. Always. You know, communication, I always say
Starting point is 01:39:27 the communication is the bridge to salvation that God is holding our hand to walk across. And just like any other bridge, you can't skip a step to get to the other side. So thanks for allowing me to communicate. And thank you for communicating so well in your life. It's very inspiring. And yeah, I'll see you soon, man.
Starting point is 01:39:45 I'll come back over for dinner soon. I can't wait. I can't wait. I appreciate it. Thank you, Sean. Yeah, that is part three. That is part three over. Part four coming soon.
Starting point is 01:39:53 Yeah, part four coming soon. Thank you, man. I love it. You're the best, man. Thank you, brother. Thanks for being such a dear friend. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more,
Starting point is 01:40:02 I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you. Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value. As an artist, if you like it, that's all of the value. That's the success comes when you say, I like this enough for other people to see it. Hey friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw. And this is Camilla Luddington.
Starting point is 01:40:36 And we have a new podcast, Call It What It Is. You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. Big or small, we are there. And now here we are opening up the friendship circle to you. Listen to call it what it is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your
Starting point is 01:41:01 podcasts. Captain's Log, start date 2024. We're floating somewhere in the cosmos, but we've lost our map. Yeah, because you refuse to ask for directions. It's space jam, there are no roads. Good point, so where are we headed? Into the unknown, of course.
Starting point is 01:41:17 Join us on In Our Own World as we uncover hidden truths, navigate the depths of culture, identity, and the human spirit. With a hint of mischief. One episode at a time. Buckle up and listen to In Our Own World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust us. It's out of this world.
Starting point is 01:41:36 What's up, y'all? This is Questlove. And, you know, at QLS, I get to hang out with my friends, Sugar Steve, Laia, Von Tigolo, Unpaid Bill. And we, you know, at Cost Love Supreme like to nerd out and do deep dives with musicians and actors, politicians, creatives, people that we feel really deserve that attention.
Starting point is 01:41:55 We learn, we laugh, we fall down rabbit holes. Listen to Cost Love Supreme on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Suprema!

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