On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Brian Grazer: ON How to Become A Confident Communicator & Connect With Anyone Genuinely

Episode Date: September 16, 2019

On this episode of On Purpose, I sat down with Brian Grazer. Brian is Hollywood’s best producer and New York Times bestselling author. His credits include 24, Empire, 8 Mile, Friday Night Lights, among others. Brian breaks down why tactics and strategy will never replace real curiosity and care. You’ll learn how he went from being fearful to speak in public to viewing it as a gift. His new book is out now! Face to Face https://amazon.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Conquer your New Year's resolution to be more productive with the Before Breakfast Podcast. In each bite-sized daily episode, time management and productivity expert, Laura Vandercam, teaches you how to make the most of your time, both at work and at home. These are the practical suggestions you need to get more done with your day. Just as lifting weights keeps our bodies strong as we age, learning new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron. Listen to Before Breakfast on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Eva Longoria and I'm Maite Gomes-Rachon. We're so excited to introduce you to our new

podcast hungry for history. On every episode we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Listen to Hungry for History on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I am Dr. Romani and I am back with season two of my podcast, Navigating Narcissism.

This season we dive deeper into highlighting red flags and spotting a narcissist before they spot you. Each week you'll hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing and their process of healing. Listen to Navigating Narcissism on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The movie, like eight miles that I produce about a rapper, you know, it's a serious movie, you know, it's intense, but ultimately it's an aspirational film. It's a movie about

a kid that had to become self-actualized to emotionally survive. It wasn't even about him going off to be the biggest hip-hop star in the world. In fact, that isn't what happens in the story of the movie. He just was able to say, yeah, I am white trash. Liberate himself from all his emotional injuries, so that he could actually look at people and know himself and dust off the mirror, as you said. and know himself and dust off the mirror as you said. [♪ Music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, your schedules, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're cooking, whether you're commuting, whether you're working or editing right now.

I just want to thank you for taking out time to choose education, the fact that you're choosing to learn, choosing to develop yourselves, this is the right place to be. And today's guest is someone that I've been fascinated for so many years. We've had the fortune of having incredible, curious conversations together. And today we actually get to video it and record it on audio so that you can witness it too. He's truly got one of the most fascinating minds I've ever met. The first meeting I have with him was nothing short of brilliant.

And I just want to tell you a bit about him. Now listen very, very carefully. Brian Grazer is an Academy Award-winning producer, New York Times, a best-selling author of a curious mind, who's been making movies and television programs for more than 25 years. His credits include, and this is just the tiniest list in the world.

A beautiful mind, 24, arrested development, Empire, eight mile, Friday night lights, amongst so many others. His films and TV series have been nominated, wait for this, 43 Academy Awards, and 195 Emmys. And Brian's new book, Face to Face, is what we're talking about today. It's the art of human connection, something I know is so important to every one of you.

So please welcome to the show, Brian Grayser. Brian, thank you for being here. Thank you. So great for having you here. Thank you, of course. This is such a pleasure and honor to be sitting with you. I'm psyched. Yeah, I was really psyched.

We both just got back from our vacations only last night. I know. Back from Provant and got up early and you were back from my love to say, Bora Bora. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I was on a three-year late honeymoon. back from Provence and got up early and you were back from my love to say, Bora Bora. Yes, yes. Yeah. Absolutely.

I was on a three year late honeymoon. Oh, yeah. You're very busy then. Absolutely, absolutely. But I want to kick this off by asking a curious question of my own. And I know curious conversations are your fascination. Yes.

But you're actually a painter. Yes. Like that's something that you dabble in. Tell us about how you got involved in that. I got involved in painting through my daughter. My daughter was only her name is Sage. She was three, four years old. At three, I was playing invisible Barbie's weather

where you're playing with a Barbie and then she takes the Barbie away and she goes, well, the Barbie's now got red hair and I go, I can't see the Barbie. She's, well, it's invisible. So I thought I have to transition her to something that maybe we could do together, you know, because I was looking at my watch. So I think in now five years old we decided we'd paint together, which is something I've never done. I've never played with ceramics or painted or anything before.

And so I had roomed have an art studio and we became painters together. And she soon ceased to paint and I just continued to paint and still do to this day paint. And I use primarily acrylic, then oil, then oil stick, and often pencil to highlight or punctuate faces, faces or usually faces nuance. And make fresh it.

So paintings brought your human connection together? Yes. Painting is what brought our human connection together and we became like completely embedded with one another on this painting. And tell me about that. What is, when you say the art of human connection, what is human connection to Brian Grazer? Like, what does that mean to you? It means, well, first, okay, first there's the set point of human connection, which begins

with eye contact. And there's a whole story about eye contact and why I became, I had a heightened awareness to it. But basically, human connection begins with looking, actually looking at somebody, but looking at somebody calmly and without ambition, just looking at them calmly and feeling them. Doesn't mean you have to pause, doesn't have to only weird thing, but you just have to really look at them and be relaxed and be interested. And that makes somebody feel like it validates them as a human being.

It makes them feel human. And conversely, you will feel human. So it just begins with that generous act. Now once you've established that, you're at least on the very, very beginning of the pathway to getting to know somebody, to getting to ask questions for them to feel like I can answer those questions. And once you're on the pathway, then you can really just let biology take over,

you know, and you find things that are very interesting about them, they, with you. But what I'm personally interested in doing is getting to the place where we both are, you know, on a one-on-one, we're both reaching into our most authentic self. Yeah. Whatever that truth is that lies deep embedded in you, whatever that is, to have some of that revealed. And I do this now, always, without any thought about it.

And there is it, pluses and minuses to this. And I always tell people, it's like you, when you're reaching inside of yourself and you're really accessing that, you do say things that are stupid. And you make mistakes, you're fallible. And you have to say, I'm willing to have that fallibility in myself happened.

But if somebody feels your soul, they forgive that. And they often really enjoy it. And it usually becomes the thing that is part of the connective tissue in this connection that you're having that was bridged through just this initial set point of looking at somebody. Well, that's unbelievable. I don't think I'm ever going to look at someone the same ever again after that definition. I'm Munga Shatekater and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life.

In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're gonna get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, majorly baseball teens, canceled marriages, K-pop! But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world can crash down. Situation doesn't look good, there is risk too far. world can crash down. And my whole view on astrology?

It changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. A good way to learn about a place is to talk to the people that live there. There's just this sexy vibe and Montreal, this pulse, this energy. What was seen as a very snotty city, people call it Bosedangeless. New Orleans is a town that never forgets its pay.

A great way to get to know a place is to get invited to a dinner party. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Newd Newton and not lost is my new travel podcast where a friend and I go places, see the sights, and try to finagle our way into a dinner party where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. I would love that, but I have like a Cholala who is aggressive towards strangers.

I love you dogs. We learn about the places we're visiting, yes, but we also learn about ourselves. I don't spend as much time thinking about how I'm going to die alone when I'm traveling, but I get to travel with someone I love. Oh, see, I love you too. And also, we get to eat as much... I love you too.

My life's a lot of therapy goes behind that. You're so white, I love it. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Not too long ago, in the heart of the Amazon Rainforest, this explorer stumbled upon something that would change his life. I saw it and I saw, oh well, this is a very unusual situation. It was cacao. The tree that gives us chocolate.

But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun fight. I mean, you saw this stacks of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex. It sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate. We're all lost. It was madness.

It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind so they could search for more of this stuff. I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle, and it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building armed with machetes. And we've heard all sorts of things that you know somebody got shot

over this. Sometimes I think all these for a damn bar of chocolate. Listen to obsessions, wild chocolate on the iHeartRadio app,, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. That's amazing. The part that I really picked up on listening to you that really connected with me was without ambition. Oh. I think that's such a beautiful point. I've always felt one of the reasons why, my monk experience that I benefited so much is I felt

I spent time with people who had no agenda for me Yes, and like being around someone who has no agenda for you It doesn't want anything from you or isn't trying to manipulate and this is what I find fascinating about when you talk about it in this book And and for anyone who's gonna read the book afterwards This is what I find fascinating about the way you present it. It's not a technique or a tactic for you. No. It's not like this manipulative strategy for you. No.

It's like a very genuine, authentic where you just mentioned there. That's what it sounds like to me. Yeah. How do you help people live it in that way as opposed to like, oh, Brian's taught me, I'm gonna use this tactic to get use it as a way of getting it.

How have you come to that place of realizing that human connection is beyond tactics and strategies and sales? That's such a great question. That's a great question. And I have a couple of funny answers. Well, one is, I've had people even recently, you know, you know, given like my movie

and television success, they go, wow, what a great strategy. Yeah. I go, that wasn't a strategy. It's just what happened. I have no strategy. I mean, I have desires and I have, there's intentionality within the movies and television and just my actions. There's intentionality. And that's sort of the beauty of it, of it all, like that intentionality leads you,

is fired up by something, and it leads you someplace. Okay, so let me go back to your original question. So I found that very early in my career, I, it was just right before I ever produced anything. So I had to be just about turning 24, because I produced something at 24. But I was dying to meet this guy who ran movies and television for CBS. I'll even say his name.

His name was Donald March. And I wanted to meet Donald March, and he knew me, and I called him once, and it took him like at least two weeks to call me back. So I thought if I could get into this big Hollywood party, then Donald March and people like Donald March will call me right back. So I found that first of all, I was, I did get in. I found that I was incredibly uncomfortable

being at this party. And I felt that it was a plan, it was a construction. It was like very artificial to me. So I did see Donald March. This is really true. And I totally screwed it up. And I got to the, I screwed it up like because I was nervous. I was out of my honest real zone. And he literally never called me back ever again. Just because I said stew, you know, it just didn't feel right, you know, and people can feel when things are not, that aren't real. They can feel constructions.

Absolutely. Particularly if you're paying attention. Yeah. Absolutely. So I kind of vowed at that time that I was never going to go to any party as an ambition. I would go if I thought I could have a good time. I thought if I could be naturalistic and just like, this could be really fun or this could be a really interesting experience or this could be a really interesting adventure when it's

just a, when it becomes a real thing that I'm doing. But when it becomes like, you know, recently, someone said, flight a Saudi and have this one meeting. I thought, that's not me. I ended up going to Saudi incidentally and had this an unbelievably wild experience, but, and which was incredibly valuable. But I couldn't go in surgical as a surgical ambitious strike, you know. So I just don't think it works. Yeah, no, I agree with you. It's so funny, I was just saying before this podcast, I was talking to my team and I was just saying,

for me, every podcast is a genuine conversation. Yeah. I can't approach it with like, I've got to make sure like we have to ask this to get this answer. And like when you start constructing it like that, it's like you lose the conversation. So what to speak of business and meetings

and TV and movies. It's like anything that's artificially constructed. No, I absolutely love that. Oh, go ahead. And I had this other flashpoint thought when you said it's a conversation that it made me think of this. It was my instinct about that party stuff was further ratified when I had to give a speech to all the firemen in America, all the fire captains in America after he after having produced a movie about firemen called back draft with Billy Baldwin and Robert De Niro and several others and we were watching in DC and and we had to each say something, you know, the director Ron Howard and the chairman of the studio had to speak. And the chairman of the studio was really very high intellect, you know, very high IQ, very high intellect, very articulate, very, very. And he came, walked out on stage right before me.

And I thought, wow, what's this big brain gonna do? And you know what he did? He froze. And he basically said things that were like a speech and got no reaction. And I thought in that flashpoint moment, I don't have to be that, I don't have to compete with that kind of intellect.

I can just speak from my heart and feelings about how I feel about the selfless nature of firemen themselves. And I got a tremendous reaction without having to do that and it was really beautiful, incredibly beautiful actually. Yeah, I love that. And by the way, I just wanna say when I was reading through the book, your storytelling is unbelievable.

Like what you do on the screen and the fact that you can do it on the written page is unbelievable. Like I feel like I got to know people through this book. And that's what I was going to ask you with the title, Face to Face. What are conversations that in your experience do you believe must happen face to face that today we're not doing because of the distractions of technology or the opportunities of email? What are the conversations that you believe are non-negotiably have to happen face to face?

I love that. But we're choosing to do different. Well, mine with you, originally. Yes, absolutely. I was immediately magnetized to your incredibly powerful eyes. Like, and I even commented, I remember, like, I just couldn't believe the sparkle and clarity of your eyes. And I didn't know that you were, I didn't fully appreciate that you were a monk. And that completely became compatible to me. I thought, wow, they'll wonder. He had such kind forgiving eyes.

And it was really, again, very attracted to that. And so all of my real curiosity conversations, which incidentally, you know, mine with you, there was a professional nature to it, but I've viewed it as a curiosity conversation because I didn't, you were, you're very, very, very well-known and particularly by young people and that's who introduced me to you. But I know of you, but I didn't know of your massive popularity. And even like today, I didn't know it was a number one health podcast in the world. It blows my mind. So I mean, because that's just so powerful. So, I think any conversation with somebody

that you feel matters, you know, like I would go on these curiosity where I still do this every two weeks, meet someone that's expert or renowned, and anything I don't do. And I, there are no ballerians, there's scientists, there are all art forms, they're there's J, there's many people. And I am, those conversations must be experienced through

eye contact, through looking at somebody face to face. And that be, by that, by creating that bridge, then you have the privilege to be curious, then you have the privilege to ask questions, and you have the privilege of creating this amazing kind of alchemy that can happen. And all of the great insights that I've ever gleaned have come from these kinds of conversations. And I always just felt like each one of these conversations yours included is just like a dot in a greater constellation of dots. And I just have faith that they'll connect someday. Yes. They don't have to directly connect. They can just live in your mind and be part of the way you curate your life. Yes. And so, so any of those conversations are

essential. Have to be face to face. Absolutely. And it's so fascinating you say that because I feel like I'm not sure I know so many people who make time for curious conversations in their lives. So it's almost like when you say that these are the types of conversations we have to do face to face, I'm almost going through a thing how often do we make time for that. Is that something you've made time for forever? Is this a habit that you cultivated and practiced

for decades? Because I think a lot of people would look at it and be like, oh Brian, of course you can do that now because you have really cool friends to hang out with. But I'm guessing this is something you've been doing for years and years and years. Yeah, I did this, started this, the day I graduated college, actually.

So I've done it, completely dead broke, oweing people money. So just graduating college, oweing money, I don't want to go through it. But, and then, I've always done this,

and I created it as a discipline that I would not fail at, you know, I would not, I would always do, I'd be obedient to this. And I would have to grovel and beg. And you know, when I'm the movie, my very first movie splash, I did some other things, proceeded it.

That made me well-known, but not well-known enough. I mean, I wanted to meet Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb. And for a bunch of reasons, I don't have to agree with somebody. I just have to be interested in them or the excellence or their process. But it took almost three years for him to finally say yes.

Jonas Salt took, I mean, years. But I just kept, if you do enough homework, what you have to do, and you're persistent and you're politely persistent, often I would have to wait till like one of their, one of those people's assistants had just quit and they have a new person I can actually follow to their car or something, I don't know. But so it's no, I've done it for my whole life. Yeah. It's really a way to enlarge in my life.

So it enlarges my mind, enlarges, enlarges, creates elasticity in me, emotional capability, and then of course it just, you gain these fantastic insights that you can transport to something. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hot some minds on the planet. Oh, pro.

Everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it. Kobe Bryant. The results don't really matter. It's the figuring out that matters. Kevin Haw. It's not about us as a generation at this point. It's about us trying our best to create change. Louren's Hamilton.

That's for me being taking that moment for yourself each day, being kind to yourself, because I think for a long time, I wasn't kind to myself. And many, many more. If you're attached to knowing, you don't have a capacity to learn. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw, real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours.

Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. The therapy for Black Girls podcast is the destination for all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here, we have the conversations that help Black women dig a little deeper into the most impactful relationships in our lives, those with our parents, our partners, our children, our friends, and most importantly, ourselves. We chat about things like what to do with a friendship in, how to know when

it's time to break up with your therapist, and how to end the cycle of perfectionism. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Take good care. I'm Dr. Romani and I am back with season two of my podcast, Navigating Narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere and their toxic behavior in words can cause serious harm to your mental health. In our first season, we heard from Eileen Charlotte, who was loved bomb by the Tinder swindler.

The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me, but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did. And that's even way worse than the money he took. But I am here to help. As a licensed psychologist and survivor of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissist in your life. Each week, you will hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships,

gaslighting, love bombing, and the process of their healing from these relationships. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, no, it comes across, it comes across so genuinely in the way you tell it in the book, but also the way we've connected. And I think that's what everyone who's listening or watching right now, the one thing I'd love for you to do if you're sitting back at home or you're in your car is start scheduling curious conversations, like start finding people that you're curious about, not just professionally, like notice the difference here.

It's not about a professional meeting, it's not trying to get a deal, it's not trying to close something, it's about finding someone that you're genuinely interested in that sparks your curiosity. Like you said, could just be a dot, that one day might connect. Yeah.

And I love that. And I'd highly recommend that we schedule more. For me, the podcast is that. Yeah. Like the podcast is just like this beautiful way of just getting to like dive into someone else's mind with no need apart from wanting to learn and grow. So I couldn't agree more that it's powerful. One of the things that I'm really intrigued by is one thing that I think you can help

us with. We live in a generation today where People's attention spans are just getting squashed and so today now you're not competing against another person You're competing against a phone so the phone has access like can anyone be more interesting than a phone because a phone has access to Everything right that's the question. Yes. How do you? How have you developed patience to stay interested in someone even when you're wondering what is the connection? I'm not even sure I'm learning. Like when you're finding it almost difficult, how have you

stayed interested in someone when you don't have a common denominator? Because I feel today, we look for commonalities and if we don't find it, we're like, well, there's nothing to learn. Does that make sense? It makes total sense. It makes total sense. Well, how do I stay interested? Well, first of all, you don't have to stay interested. There could be, there's a point where, if you feel like you're forcing it, or they're forcing it,

then you don't have to. You just always want to be polite, because we all want goodwill. We all want goodwill. We all want the wind blowing to our back. Yes. But it's often, it's very unique. Like, just before our trip,

about six weeks ago, I had an Uber driver, and I said, and what's good is they don't initiate conversation. So I will initiate. I said, were you from, and he said he's from Serbia and So we've got in this conversation It led me to the com it led me to martial arts and I said well, I've taken many different martial arts I mentioned he goes have you taken this Russian martial arts called

Systema I said no so I go He goes, have you taken this Russian martial arts called Sistema? I said, no. So I go, will you drive into my house? So instead of just dropping me up, he drove in, I got all of his contacts, because he also said that his mother-in-law has seen me before. And I believed, I felt safe. And then I then said, can I, will you charge me to teach me this martial arts form called systema?

He said he would. So I had him come over, even, I had a broken wrist at the time and I still did it and learned a systema, which was a very different kind of a form of martial arts and I was really glad to do that. But I didn't know that would happen. Wow. I didn't know that after the Paris terrorist attacks several years ago that that Uber driver was dropping us off at the Ritz hotel and I asked him this question about the tax and I said, well, I wanted to know how it made people feel, like just how does it make you feel one on one on the street?

Not just what the news is. And he said shame. And I thought that was really interesting to me. And I understood it because I understood that it meant to them that they don't have the strength themselves to protect themselves. So it was about protection because there were victims that they don't have the strength themselves to protect themselves. So it's about protection because there were victims recently of two terrorist attacks.

Yes. So you just learn a lot if you just are open-minded. Yes. So you can learn from anyone and everyone. You can learn from anyone and everyone. It doesn't need to be someone that you've admired or looked up to. It could actually be.

Yeah, you just have to not get ahead of yourself and hope that it has some material reason for you. And then it kind of happens, something almost always good happens. And you're so right in your health podcast, it's like we're living in an epidemic of loneliness and it's just accelerating where we're so connected, but the possibility of loneliness is even more because of what you just said. Yeah.

And the thing that you could speak to, I mean, is that everything, there's a metric for it within our medical system except internal pain. And loneliness is, there's pain and you can't measure it. And I just think this thing of looking at somebody is the beginning of getting out of pain. And it might be the beginning of a movie or a television show or just confidence itself. Like having confidence can really, you know, is really valuable. Yeah, and let's touch on confidence because I think you're so right that,

like sitting and talking to someone can actually be really scary, you know, I almost feel like you're naked, like if you feel like someone's looking at you and especially when like you said, like you talked about looking at someone, you know, with compassion, without judgment, but often we're looking at people

and it's very piercing, or you feel pierced by people's look. How do we develop like, okay, stepping in face to face, but how do we kind of break down those barriers that we have of feeling really scared to be looked at or to see, which I think so many of us have. Like we look away when people look at us, like we try and avoid eye contact because we feel kind of nervous by it. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you would probably attest to this, is that everybody, the number one of the number one, two or three fear is public speaking. Yes. I could not. Well, my first year in college, as a freshman, I was in a public speaking class,

and it was 125 kids. His name was Mr. French. I can say this, or some names I can't say. And Mr. French took me aside at the end of the class and he said, I really would like to recommend that you discontinue college. Oh wow. It was like the most discouraging thing.

I really, because I couldn't because I couldn't do it. I couldn't speak, I couldn't speak in this class. So he really thought I should go to an occupational school and discontinue college. And so that's how acutely, you know, nervous I was. But somebody said to me one day, just think to yourself like, you're just giving somebody a gift.

Start off by saying, I'm grateful to be here. That will be the beginning of how you can loosen up. I'm grateful to be here. I'm grateful you're here having me. And it's the same thing with eye contact. You don't have to say, I'm grateful, but you can feel like, you know what? Everyone is feeling what you're feeling. If you look at somebody calmly and go, Hey, how you doing? Something good will happen. It will be very, very unusual of something

good doesn't happen. Yeah. So that's so true. I love that. So I think of it as just a nice thing to do. Yeah. 100%. 100%. And I think you're so right that it can be an internal thing. Yeah. It doesn't need to even be verbalized. It doesn't need to be vocalized. It can be internal. You can't even say it. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. And if you start feeling that, it's kind of like I had some very famous guy say to me, I knew you, before you made your very first movie night shift, and now you've made all these movies and one Oscars and stuff like that, but I know you, Brian, if you ever looked in the mirror and kissed the mirror, and I said, no, I haven't. So it just means like, take a minute

to love yourself a little bit. Yes. And then give that to other people. Yeah, absolutely, no, no, 100%, 100%. And then give that to other people. Yeah. Absolutely. No, no, 100%. 100%. And I think that that's so much of it that if we've never looked at ourselves in the eye, it's hard to look at us in the eye. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

It becomes more complicated. It's like if we've not been able to truly see ourselves, then how can we allow others to see us truly as well? Yeah. That's so important. And I feel like, no, you've inspired it. Just now I've never said that before. I've never said that before. I've never said that before. I've literally just said it right now in this conversation. But yeah, it's just, you know, to be truly seen, one has to see themselves first, to allow others to truly see you. And I definitely experienced that

in, there's a beautiful analogy in the Vedic literature of a mirror of the mind. And it said that when we first try and see ourselves, the mirror is very dusty. And so you go and see yourself. So when you try and wipe the dust, the first thing that happens is the dust comes in your face. And so it's actually quite a tough process to start seeing yourself. And then finally when the dust disappears, you can then see yourself clearly. So a lot of us are going through that dusting phase of trying to see ourselves clearly. And therefore the people that we want to show ourselves to, we can't, because we're still trying to see ourselves. Yeah. Wow, that's very heavy. I love, I love, I love, no one

would be too heavy. I love that I, well, I, you know, just like, it's also just as a personal validation. I felt like what I said to you is what I felt, but now it's further validated by, you know, well, I, I, you know, body of work. Well, when I was reading through the book, all I was doing was nodding all the time. But, but what I found different and what I love about the storytelling, I'm trying not I know you're telling some great stories from there And I want everyone else to go and get the book too But the thing in the book is that the way you tell stories is it's it's effortless But it's also from your deep observation and analysis right like it's you you deeply observed details Yes, from what people are wearing it's all the way through to their lips

Everything matters. Yeah, and it does. And that's what I loved about the book. And that's what I'm validating back is that I truly believe that becoming an expert in observation is everything because if you genuinely are observing the scene and the unseen, yeah, no, that's really smart. I love it.

I learned from you. No, no, I love it. You're inspiring everything we're doing. I mean, you. No, no, I love it. You're inspiring everything we're doing. I mean, you went to the discipline of becoming a monk, I yeah, which is I and I so admire that it's But it's it's really true. You have to be deeply observational. Yeah, well We'd have the awkward task of having to walk down the same path every day and having to find something new on it Yeah Like that was one of our tasks like we were told to walk down the same path and have to find something new on it. Like that was one of our tasks. Like we were told to walk down the same path

and have to find something unique every time. Yes. Wow. And it was like, it's hard after a while. Like it sounds easy, but after a while, you really have to look. And I think that's what I'm seeing in you is that you're meeting all these people

that everyone in your industry meets but you're able to meet them uniquely. I do. Right? That's what you're definitely doing. Many people have met, all the people I've met, but don't see what I see or feel what I felt from, just like could be a millisecond,

just some little nuance or a question that they turn away from and you wonder why and it means something. Yeah, absolutely. How many days did you do that particular thing, though? That we did for about 30 days. You had to articulate it? Yes. We had to explain every day. And often they would play with us in the sense that

we're asked to find a new stone every day. And so what you would do, what your material manipulative mind would do is you would find two stones, and then you'd say, okay, I'm going to show this one today. And tomorrow I'll talk about that one. Oh my god. And the next day the monks would say, okay, now we're not looking for stones anymore. We're looking for new flowers. And your ego mind loses.

And you're like, oh man, like, you know, and it's just great because it just crushes your ego and your manipulative mind to show you that life doesn't work like that. Like, you've got to really be present. It's not just about manipulating the answer anyway. So, yeah. So, you can't start developing patterns and outsmarted. Correct.

Correct. And we think we can, right? Yeah, we think we can. How have you let go of control in these conversations? I feel like when you're in these difficult meetings or you're in situations even when there may be a bit, how do you let go of control? Because when I'm reading this, it sounds like you're

able to really detach from where things are going and allow it to naturally flow. How have you given up control over these? That's a good question. And I know it's take us to everything about it. I just well, I think I know what you're saying. I think I trust that I'll have something to add because I do come to all these conversations prepared. So how do you prepare? Tell me that. Well, I would read something about somebody, you know,

I would read, but I leave some things unsaid. I knew you were a monk when we met. I knew that you did that. And I knew certain very important facts, although I didn't know there was a number one podcast on the world. But I knew some very important facts, but I wanted to be fresh and have it be real. So when I meet you, I can discover with you and you will say something to me that will lead to something else

that I don't know the answer to. Yes. And that becomes really fun and it becomes exciting and becomes like, you know, I don't want to sound weird, but it becomes like your best date then. Like you're, you're in the zone of something cool, you know, like in that vertical line, but you don't know where it's going and how it's going to, how it's going to produce life. Yeah.

And so that's really fun for me. I am scared sometimes of if there's nobody that fits silent. But I just get through that. How do you do with awkward silence in conversation? I think that's something that everyone is listening right now knows that whether you're on a date or you're at dinner with friends, there's so many awkward silences. And you're sitting with hugely influential people people and there's those awkward silences.

How do you navigate those? I'm not beyond like groveling go I might just go like, oh come on, what are you thinking about? Or and if I get nothing, then I'll say I'll do the I will I will turn a fact into a question. I'll go, did you know the following thing? Did you know that song from Gucci main just dropped last week? Or I'd say, I went to the Atacama Desert, and you ever been?

They go, no, and they just, no, I go, well, I went because I was searching for the greatest night sky in the world, and my wife said, there's two places, one of them is the out of Comma desert in Northern Chile. So we went to it. Well, or I could see everyone can go like how's your family? Where's your vacation? What do you like to eat? What do you hate to eat? You can go. You can invent stuff. And this is part of what you're saying it like I feel like there's such a need for us to become better conversationalists.

Yes, there is. And I feel like we've started talking in abbreviations and acronyms because of social media. So like, you know, like you would, it's such a normal thing when your partner is out to message them and just say milk. Like you would just say milk in a message and they know that that means get milk. Yeah. And you know what that means.

But then when you turn that into a conversation and you start talking in, like you see them walk out the door and you're like, milk, but nothing else. And if it's nothing else and it's like so much of our conversation gets shrunk into abbreviations and acronyms. Yes, it does. And just stuff. And I'm just like, but there is a need.

What I feel you're doing is you're telling us to expand our vocabularies and our minds to actually dive into a real conversation and stop talking like we do on small text. Trust that an actual conversation will produce something of value. Yeah. You don't have to know what it is, but I guarantee you'll produce something of value. Even if it's awkward at first. Yeah, and I love preparation and trust.

I think those are great practical takeaways for everyone listening. That preparation and trust together is a beautiful synergy. Yeah, you have to do preparation. Yes, you do. Because then you're not, that's not fair to the person you're calling up

or texting or emailing, can I meet you. You have to do some preparation. Yeah, correct, correct. And there's no shortcuts. Yeah, and just for everyone's information, this is the research we do for our guests. Like we go and dive in. Like it's prepared. And at the same time, I love the reason why I'm validating preparation and trust is that's

how I approach this conversation of we're very prepared, we're very researched. But at the same time, I just want to have a real exchange. Yes. And so I'm not tied to that framework. Yes. But the framework gives you a foundation to then build on. Yeah. Right? I mean, like, look, there are times, yes, there are times where I'm not tied to that framework, but the framework gives you a foundation to then build on. Yeah, right? I mean, look, look, there are times, yes.

There are times where I'm interviewing somebody and I know their body of work, but they just written a book. And I sometimes say to my wife Veronica, should I tell him I read it? And then we always conclude, no. Say, I heard about it, I heard it was amazing, but I have an opportunity to read it.

Yes. But you can choose whatever you want to choose. That's my choice because I don't want to get busted. Yeah, because then it just kind of undermines the whole thing. So absolutely. So you can't do everything, but you can do enough. You can do something. You know, you can we can all prepare a little. Yes. Yeah. I love that. One of the things that fascinates me about your work is this theme of redemption. Yeah.

This consistent theme that keeps coming back up and I think that with communication, even within face to face communication, redemption is such a need in our lives. Yeah. Because I think we, we regret what we've said. We feel pain by what we've said or heard from others. Like communication has so much weight to it

when it's been done negatively. That redemption is something that we all need. Why is that theme so striking for you? And how have you seen that kind of play out in your work? Well, okay, so redemption. Well, first of all, my goal with making movies or television shows, or whether it's Friday night lights, where they lose the game originally in the movie, or you don't always have to win at things.

But it's good, redemption to me would be, you know, an emotional resolution that is a plus. So you don't have to get the girl. You just have to do your best. You don't have to get the girl. You just have to have dignity. You just, in other words, I just want, the movies are television, the shows are documentaries and, you know, Pavarotti, what we just finished, it wasn shows, or documentaries, and you know, Pavarotti, which we just finished, it wasn't a perfect person, but there's redemption in Pavarotti. So I want to show that. I want people to, I want to send out good vibes into the world.

However it goes, even if it's just me saying, hey to somebody, hey, like, or, I don't want to, like, there's so many examples. I just want to have good vibes, good vibes out there. I realized, this is a big digression, but I, I kind of learned the message of this when, as, first of all, as a kid, I had my parents periodically take me to a movie, and it was always like a huge drag to get in the car. It was really inconvenient.

That my dad would be mad because he couldn't find a parking spot. And then all of a sudden there's bad vibes. And then we have to wait in line. And then we get our ticket. And then we have to put our sweaters down or someone has to save the seats while someone gets the food. Anyway, before the movie starts, the whole theater, the auditorium is usually kind of tense and bad vibes. So that was my memory of the movie going experience. Of course, I loved all those James Bond movies and stuff. Nonetheless, that's what I remember, and then I remember the same thing happened

when you got out, trying to get your car to the parking spot, all that stuff. I see the movie ET in the center of a dome, this famous theater in Hollywood. Actually we're quite close to it. I've been there, yeah, it's been there. I just so. And it was very new at the time.

And all the same things were happening, hard to park, da, da, da, da, da. And I'm thinking, oh my God, the movie's over. I sort of thought, of course, people are gonna step on my feet, I'm just a little guy. Did it? It was so strange. Everybody, the whole vibe was really good.

Nobody pushed. No rush to the car. The energetics of the entire auditorium had changed and transformed to something else. And I thought, wow, that's amazing. If I can be, some way have that be my goal to try to make movies or television shows that make you feel better, you know?

Yeah. Because that gives you confidence. And confidence gives you the ability to hatch new ideas. And, you know, so that's kind of how redemption factors into it. And the movie, like eight miles that I produced about a rapper, you know, I've watched that movie way too anytime. That's an end of the film. I'm back, you can't see it right now.

Oh, I see, I see, I see. Yeah, yeah, it's like, I'm like, you know, I'm a huge M&M fan, so. So, yeah, and so that movie is not like a man beat, you know, it's not, it's, you know, it's a serious movie, you know, it's not a, it's not, you know, it's a serious movie, you know, it's intense. There's, you know, words and this and that and there's acts of violence and stuff. But ultimately, it's an aspirational film. It's a movie about a kid that had to become self-actualized to sort of emotionally survive. It wasn't even about him going off to be the biggest hip-hop star in the world. In fact, that isn't what happens in the story of the survive. Wasn't even about him going off to be the biggest hip hop star in the world.

In fact, that isn't what happens in the story of the movie. He just was able to say, yeah, I am white trash, liberate himself from all his emotional injuries so that he can actually look at people and know himself and dust off the mirror, as you said. So, you know, there's all these different sizes, shapes, and forms in which you can do that. Yeah, no, and I love that

I definitely got that message from that movie. I mean, I must have watched that movie growing up. I don't know like a million times It's like every time I watched it personally it just gave me more permission to be myself Like that's what I was getting from you. That's cool. Yeah, it's like permission to be yourself because that's what you see his character Be rabbit go through of just getting permission to then finally stay in stay and not be better or be worse. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that's really to me where human connection starts is when you give yourself permission to be yourself and you give someone else the permission to be themselves without

judgment ambition. All the other stuff you mentioned of just without like crowding it into like you having to be a certain way and then having to be a certain way. Well, that's so well said because that is sort of like thinking of your best date or your best meeting with somebody, even just a business meeting. Your best meeting is when that happens, right? When those guards go down and both people feel permission to be themselves But I thought you did that when I first met you obviously I

Some of you the movies you've made are some of my favorite movies rush to is one of my favorite movies I love that movie and it's for me those have been and so when I got the opportunity to meet you and my team I'd mentioned to me that we could meet you know for me It's like I was like wow. I'm meeting someone that I like admired for a long time, really look up to you. I was nervous because I was meeting someone that, you know, that's important to me in some context. And it's just, you were so good at helping me be myself because the first thing I think you said to me when I came to your home was just like, oh, yeah, I've been listening to you all week. And like, you're like, I've been listening to your YouTube videos. And I heard you say this. And I was

just like, oh, wow, like, I just feel at ease because someone's given me context that they've, they're aware of what I'm doing and they're meeting me and I just felt, wow, someone who's so busy, someone who has so many huge things going on, had the time to do that. And I'm like, if you've got the time to do that to make someone like me feel at ease, then for me, we've all got time to do that for everyone that we meet. And so often, I think we have meetings where we've done no preparation for the person. Someone walks into a room and you're like, all right, so tell me why you're here, right?

And it's like, you're always pitching yourself. And it's like, I think people don't want to pitch themselves. You're not your best when you're pitching yourself. And I think there's a pressure to pitch yourself and I love being in scenarios where I'm not pitching myself because that's when I can truly give myself permission. I feel you really did that for me when we met and I thought that was a beautiful thing to point out

because I feel the fact that you did that for me, I'm hoping people listening and watching, we can all do that for everyone in our lives. Yes, we can. We can. What a memory you have because I do remember before the day we met a lot of people said, oh my god, you're meeting Jay Shetty and then on and on.

And it was like all diverse groups of people are going, oh, you're meeting Jay, oh, you're meeting Jay. And I thought, wow, I've really missed out by not meeting Jay, clearly. So then Jamie said, okay, you know, whatever day it was. So I crashed course in like the last three, the three days prayer, that's meeting. I watched and listened to so many of your pieces.

Now, wow, I get it, you know, like I actually, I was able to, well, it was very easy to connect into, into you. So, yeah. No, thank you. But no, I really felt that. I think that that's such a powerful thing to do that for someone is to help them. I think sometimes we have to let our gods down, but we have to help other people let their god down too. Yeah. And I think that is an environment and a space that we create, which I think you create. And I think that's why so many of the most successful people in the world that I mentioned in this book are able to do that with you as well. Oh, thank you. I think so.

Well, the thing I did do another thing, I feel like I have so many stories. Yeah, I have a thing. Go for it. But when I started my career and I, and I, all of a sudden I, I had, you know, some power and money and all that, you know, I was very aware of powerful men for the most part, having that elevated desk when you walked in to see them. I mean, almost Hollywood clichés are really true. You know, you'd go in to see like in the day,

you know, there was Sam Goldwin or, you know, Louis B. Mayor, I'm, it was very long before me, or Daryl Zannick, and they had known to have elevated desks, you know, like, so when you walked in, you felt smaller, and you sat across the desk, and even in my time in the 1990s, it was still carried out that way. Guys that were really powerful,

they all had black vinyl furniture, like really leafily tough black stuff. And I remember thinking, I'm gonna do just the opposite. I'm not gonna even have a desk, where I had one way off in the distance, and everything was always like sitting around a very democratic kind of a vibe

where it's like coffee table, a big L-shaped couch, and you just sit and chill because you get the best out of artists when they're not scared. Yes, so I thought, that's the way I'm gonna get my competitive edge. Yeah. Not by intimidating somebody and making them certain that they know that I'm powerful.

I'm gonna just the opposite. Love that. That's awesome. So. That's so beautiful. And you did the office meeting with at your home. Yeah, I was like, well, okay, I'm pulling out the party. You know, and I just think that you really lived that. And I think that's amazing because I always feel that the people that change culture are

the people that change culture. You have to change the culture to be someone who makes a difference. And I think today so many people are scared because they're following the rules. Like they see their agent treat the younger agent badly. So they think when I become the senior agent, that's what I'm going to have to do. And I think we just perpetuate that culture. We don't break cycles and we don't break generational curses.

Like we just let them perpetuate. It's amazing to see you just like go, no, I'm gonna change that. We'll give you the courage to, like we'll give you the boldness to do that. Well look, I like everybody else, wanna feel special. I wanna earn my right,

I wanna earn, you know, I wanna to feel special. I want to earn my right, I want to earn, you know, I want to earn feeling special. And I want to, and I want to be acknowledged for it. Yeah. So, you know, there was a time where like the five mean big producers all four of them all looked sort of similar. You know, they had, they did action films, they're very aggro, they yelled at assistance and stuff

and you know, they were very aggressive through plates of food on them. There's a lot of famous stories. Now, I don't even wanna say that I'm better than that. I was just different than that. I'm not constructed. I don't have a lot of sort of confrontational stuff going on in me in that way. So I thought, how am I going to have a nickname? Do I need a nickname?

Or how do I do this? And I quite honestly, a lot of them had, you know, beards. I could not grow a beer quite honestly. So I thought, how am I going to do it? So I did want to have something. And so that's when I sort of popped my hair up because my daughter sage thought, oh, that look great. We're in Swingpool. And I thought, well, okay, that could be different. And so, but I didn't really, you know, I just kind of felt like, and my career started with making a mermaid.

Yes. I mean, if my career started with an action film or it started with something that was less risky, you know, less against the system or, you know, like, that seemed less crazy. Like everyone thought a mermaid movie is, if you're going to pick what could be a dumb idea, that would be the dumb idea. So I had a lot of people, hundreds of people sort of say that was a very bad idea. And so the fact that it worked validated this sort of movement for myself to just continue to try my finding my authentic self, trust the theme that lives inside of that authentic self, and have that

be transported in to movies or television that I do. And so most of my movies and television shows, the ones I work on, that certainly that work have a theme. And usually the theme is rooting for love, rooting for friendship, brotherhood is always a thing to me. And self-respect and identity is critical. It's the voidance of shame. So many movies are kind of access around respect.

Men want to feel respected. We all want to feel respected. men want to feel respected. We all want to feel respected. Women want to feel respected. Yeah. And so you have to allow people to have that identity and best the good things will come from it. Amazing. That's beautiful, Brian.

We end every interview with a final five. Oh, wow. This is a rapid fire, quick fire. Okay. And so answers have to be one word to one sentence maximum. That's a cap. And I a cap and I will probably, I will probably make you expand on stuff, but we're trying to,

I'll try it. This is your final five. I'll try it. The first question is, the movie you've rewatched the most. Godfather. Okay, nice. Because second question,

what is one movie you wish you created? Oh my God, what is that? With Michael J. Fox, I love that movie. Uh, uh, you know what it is. Back to the future. Back to the future. Back to the future. Because I had made many, many, oh, sorry, I'm going to stop.

Back to the future. I would say, no, camera. Well, because I had produced a lot of hit comedies, but when back to the future was made and I saw it, I thought, wow, that blows my mind. That takes comedy to a whole other level. I just thought the interconcy, the genius, to create something, you know, retrofit back, that story was brilliant. I thought it was really brilliant. I wish I could have made that movie. Amazing question. Number three, if you could have a conversation, a curious conversation with anyone

dead or alive, who would it be, someone you haven't spoken to yet? I would really love to meet, really have a conversation with the Pope. This is with the Pope. Okay, side question, not one of the final five, what would you ask him? What would be one question that you'd ask him? How does he have the strength and ability to change which is almost an inflexible system? Nice, yeah.

Amazing. Okay, great. I'm sure we can dive into that on another day too. Question number four, what's one of your favorite scenes from the House of Cards? Cause I know you like this, yeah. Oh my God. I do love House of Cards.

I don't have a favorite scene. Fine. But I do like, I did like when Kevin Spacey would become so evil, so badass that it's shocking. You know, I guess I like things that are unpredictable and he and that became unpredictable. So amazing. And I liked it.

It was a big surprise to me because I offered Robin Wright to be in a beautiful mind. I think she's an amazing actress, but she declined and, I shouldn't say that, but anyway, she did, and I've always been a big fan because she's brave and she's super badass in that show. I love it.

And the final and fifth question of the final five is, if you could give one message to everyone listening, what would that be if you had to give a final message to everyone listening? It's one step to look at somebody in the eyes. Please do it. Amazing. I love it. How beautiful.

What a beautiful message to give to people. Just forget face time, forget messaging, get in front of people, get face to face, have more curious conversations, have conversations without ambition. That line is gonna stick with the rest of my life. So happy. That is such a beautiful way of putting it. Thank you so much, Brian. Welcome.

For everyone who's been listening and watching, thank you so much for tuning in today. I highly recommend that you go and get the book, face to face, the art of human connection. It's in book shows right now. You can order it online too and we'll put the link into the comment section so you can order it straight from our feed. Make sure you go get the book. If you want to hear about stories and what I love about this

book is there are lots of people in our lives that we may never get to have curious conversations with ourselves. But it's people like Brian who bring those curious conversations into our lives. So there are a host of people in this book that you'd love to speak with and you may never get to speak with face to face, but Brian has, and he's asked them incredible questions, and you get to read about all of them in the book. So in the same way as I always say, I feel mentored by Steve Jobs, even though I never met him, because I've studied everything he's ever said, you will find the same mentorship and insight in this book. So I highly recommend that you go and get face to face by Brian Grazer.

Brian, it's been an honor and my pleasure to have you here today in my home and also to interview you. And I'm excited for our relationship to continue. I'm excited for more conversation. Me too. I'm so grateful. I love you. You're brilliant. I loved how this turned out.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's brilliant. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Perfect. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening through to the end of that episode. I hope you're going to share this all across social media. Let people know that you're subscribed to on purpose. Let me know, post it. Tell me what a difference it's making in your life. I would love to see your thoughts. I can't wait for this incredibly conscious community we're creating of purposeful people. You're now a part of the tribe, a part of the squad. Thank you for being here. I can't wait to share the next episode with you. Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time? I'm Jemma Speg, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s.

Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The Psychology of Your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg, listen now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Regardless of the progress you've made in life, I believe we could all benefit from wisdom on handling common problems,

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