On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Byron Katie ON: How To Properly Ask The Universe For The Healing, Peace & Abundance You’ve Been Chasing

Episode Date: July 6, 2020

Sometimes a person’s most transformative life experience takes place in the pit of despair while face to face with a cockroach. At least that’s how it was for author Byron Katie. In this episode of On Purpose, Katie shares how to transform your perspective by learning to question your thoughts, not just believe them. Katie’s contagious passion for life touches everyone who comes in contact with her. You'll learn her inspiring story of finding hope and healing. Text Jay Shetty 310-997-4177See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Regardless of the progress you've made in life, I believe we could all benefit from wisdom on handling common problems. Making life seem more manageable, now more than ever. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the One You Feed Podcast, where I interview thought-provoking guests who offer practical wisdom that you can use to create the life you want. 25 years ago, I was homeless and addicted to heroin. I've made my way through addiction recovery, learned to navigate my clinical depression, and figured out how to build a fulfilling life. The one you feed has over 30 million downloads and was named one of the best podcasts by Apple Podcast.

Oprah Magazine named this is one of 22 podcasts to help you live your best life. You always have the chance to begin again and feed the best of yourself. The trap is the person often thinks they'll act once they feel better. It's actually the other way around. I have had over 500 conversations with world-renowned experts and yet I'm still striving to be better.

Join me on this journey. Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II? An opera singer who burned down an honorary to kidnap her lover, and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils, haven't comment. They're all real women who were left out of your history books.

You can hear these stories and more on the Womanica podcast. Check it out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions like can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to

uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It's nameless anyway, nameless would take away from the beauty, it is that beautiful, and to even claim it says what it isn't, it's disrespectful for me to even attempt. It's more beautiful than that. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that choose to listen, learn and grow with us every single week. And you know that it's my intention to help connect you

with thinkers, teachers, and guides that can help us learn to love ourselves a little more, that can help us learn to understand ourselves a bit of more and navigate the challenges that come up with the mind, our thoughts, our hearts, and emotions. Now, today's guest is extremely trusted, extremely an incredible thought leader in this space for countless years. and emotions. Now today's guest is extremely trusted, extremely an incredible thought leader in this space for countless years, and I feel so

deeply grateful to have her on the podcast. Now today's guest is none other than Byron Katie, and in 1986, at the bottom of a 10-year spiraling to depression, rage and self-loathing Byron Katie woke up one morning to a state of constant joy that is never left. She realized that when she believed her thoughts, she suffered, but when she questioned them, she didn't suffer. And that is true for every human being. And you know how much I love questions and answers, so I can't wait to ask her. Now since then, she has offered her profound and powerful process of inquiry called the work to millions of people at three public events in prisons, hospitals, churches, treatment centers,

corporations, universities and schools. As she dide to people through the work, they find that their stressful beliefs about life are the people all themselves start to shift. Through this process, Katie gives people the tool to set themselves free. Now, Barron Katie has written four major books, the best-selling, loving what is and I'm grateful to have Trude with me right now so you can see me here. And of course, I need your love is that true, a thousand names for joy and a minor home with itself and a thousand names for joy. And we'll be putting the links to these books in the comments as well.

So please welcome to the show with an open, grateful and deeply appreciative heart by R&K TV. Katie, thank you for doing this. I'm so happy to have you on the show. Oh, Jay, my goodness. It's my privilege for sure. It's such a joy to sit with someone and just for all of you who don't know, Katie and I were just exchanging some some energy and some words before we started recording officially. And there's these moments that when you're present with someone, you feel this energy and aura and this immense joy and beauty that comes from them. And Katie, the way you just started this conversation,

I felt it from the moment I joined the Zoom call. I can't imagine what I would have felt like if you were in the room with me right now. So I just wanted to thank you for making me feel some of this joy just through your prayer. Oh, I'm just so grateful that you're in the room with me right now. So I just wanted to thank you for making me feel so much joy just through your prayer. Oh, I'm just, I'm so grateful that you're in the world, Jay. I'm, I'm, it's not surprising that, that I, you felt that I'm, I'm grateful you're in the world.

Amazing. Well, I want to start by talking about your journey, which I know you've spoken about many times, but I'd love my audience to really connect with your background because I think that when we hear or see people who are incredible authors, incredible thinkers, incredible teachers, it's hard to realize that at some point they too had struggles, more that they have struggles at all. And I think often people see guests on our podcast and think, oh, well, they have perfect lives and things are incredible. And they've never experienced this. And that's what we want to start with when you said that you were depressed for

over a decade. And I want to start about asking you, how would you describe that chapter of your life of what it felt like and how different it is to how you feel now. Oh gosh, it was horrible. It is something that I would never want another human being to have to live through. And in my world, people are experiencing that their emails that come into me and their... I love my emails, that, you know, there is a way out of suffering, but I didn't know that. And

to wake up in the morning, Jay and realize that I was so suicidal and and agoraphobic so just trapped most of the time in my bedroom and it was it was not fun. We'll see you describe it to you. My self-esteem and self-loathing was so strong that I was sleeping on the floor one morning as I usually did. And next to my bed, because I was so full of self-loathing that I didn't believe I deserved a bed. That's the bottom line. So all I deserve was a sleep on the floor. But this particular morning, as I lay sleeping on the floor, I was in like this dead sleep and a cockroach crawled over my foot. I opened my eyes and basically all the suffering was gone. All the suffering was gone.

And the valuable thing was that I saw when I believed my thoughts I suffered. But when I didn't believe my thoughts, I didn't suffer. And the way that I saw that is when I opened my eyes, the ego did not have opportunity to fill that space and everything was present. And in that, I began to laugh. It was like I got the joke. I got it. And I saw, you know, it, I'm,

what I was thinking and believing was the cause of my suffering. And then the work was born on the floor in that moment, you know, it was, it was how, how all suffering is created. And it's true for every human being. We believe our thoughts, we suffer, we question, then we don't suffer. So I, some great minds said, an unquestioned life is not worth living. And that's certainly my experience too.

That's, that's incredible that you were able to birth a whole new way of thinking in that moment. And I wonder, what were those thoughts that you were believing at that time whole new way of thinking in that moment. And I wonder, what were those thoughts that you were believing at that time? Where were they coming from? Was it family? Was it parenting? Was it relationships?

It was from me. It was something terrible's going to happen. There's something wrong with me. The world doesn't really care about me. No one cares about anyone. He doesn't care about me. I can't do it. All these, and I didn't even know what the it was,

most of the time that I couldn't do, but it was just this craze and the effect of believing those thoughts is depression, was depression and guilt and insanity. And from that moment on the floor, anytime my head would say thoughts would hit, is it true? It would just, the thoughts would happen

like something terrible is going to happen. And it would evaporate. It couldn't continue after that moment on the floor. And so when people began to ask me, which was really strange, an agoraphobic being asked anyone being in touch with an agoraphobic is pretty rare. But people began to just call me from all over the world. It was just one by one by one.

And ask what, could they come live with me, the strangest questions. And I didn't know if it was the water I was drinking, the food I was eating, I had, because everything had so radically flipped, just like from one clarity to the other. And but then when they'd ask what happened, and they would say life is a worth living, and it would blow my mind, because I knew they knew better. I knew they knew better, because I'm still, still I want you know your own true nature, you see it in everyone and everything. And so I began to show them the experience on the floor.

I asked the questions like something table's going to happen. And I would say, is it true? And that puts them on the floor, not literally, but it puts them into that experience on the floor. And then how do you react? What happens when you believe the thought? And then they become aware of in that meditative state, how do I react when I believe the thought of seeing those images of the past, not now, in the future, not now.

And it moves their focus and attention from presence where the given life is, the blessed life is right here, right now, without being so convoluted or we're not confused when we are present. And whatever we need to do can be done there. And everything to do it with is also present. And then that third question, how do you react when you believe the thought, they become aware of the images and what they believe on to the images. So we have the image of let's say this morning at breakfast

and we see that image of that past and then we believe words onto that image and then the imagined life is created. And really that is all of life that most humans understand. It keeps us like in the not now, in the not now, that past future, past future that is not, is not. And the movie is so, it's so all in composing. We really, like I see me at breakfast, but I really believe that's me, even though I can't take it out of my head.

I can't touch it, I can't move it, I can't throw it. There's not, that's not I, so that me of the past, me of the future. Now there's three of me. And now all of these pasts, there are a million of me. There are a million of me in the future. It's like, who am I? And if we just, who would it be, that fourth question, who would I be without the thought?

Something terrible is going to happen, for example, dealing with that one. And it just drops the image of the the past where something terrible happened, the future where it's going to happen. It dissolves the nothing, all those eyes and the answer to who am I. It's present. Just present. And then, you know, people are taking this on as a practice. And as they do take it on as a practice, they see these horrors of the guilt of the past and the horrors of the future.

And they are awake to not eye, not eye, not eye, not eye, all the not-nows. So they are with the one they love, the beloved themselves awake to the given, you know, the love of life, not life, the imagined, but the love of, oh, you know, you know, Jay, you know of all people what it's like to see, to see.

It's, oh my goodness, I could add stuff to it. Like, it sparkles, it shines, and it's none of those things, and it's all of those things, and it's humbling. It's being gifted. And so I understand why people want to be in the now, but how. And of course, I was showing this one way and there are so many beautiful ways. It doesn't have to be just this or just that there's something for everyone. And, and, and what I love about inquiry is it works with everything. It's not, it doesn't oppose anything. It doesn't even say answer me, you know, it just is like, like given freely.

And so it, after all these years, you know, were the three decades still excites me just to answer your question and feel like I'm taking over your entire program. I love listening. It's beautiful. And what I'm hearing so wonderfully is when these questions and you used the word inquiry, it's like when these questions are these genuine sincere requests and questions as opposed to these demands. And

I feel often our questions in the world are demands to the universe as opposed to these inquiries. And so we often ask questions, we're always asking questions, even with our thoughts, but often we're asking demanding questions, like, why is this happening to me? When is this going to end? Why is this not stopping? And those are not really questions, they're rhetorical demands. And I find that when we ask questions like that, we know that let alone the universe, even our friends would not respond to questions like that because they're not really looking for an answer And so I love the way you're reminding us now tell us Katie if someone right now and you have shown us the work You're told us about the questioning process But if someone right now is and especially right now is going through anxiety

Depression suffering from mental health. They are looking at the scenario of the world and they're having those thoughts. And one would say they're very valid to have those thoughts, especially right now and there've been multiple times in history. What would be the first thing you would say that they need to do in order to realize that there is hope for them because I think for so many people, they get to this point where they believe they're taught so much that they feel there is no hope left. And there's no chance, just like you were saying, you fell. I would say first, get in touch with your emotions

because they're the closest thing to you. And what comes from my emotions? What stops us from them? The truth sets me free. And that's my experience, unless it's drugs. You know, we do our best. And so I tried all of that, and I did it well,

and it took me literally to the floor. But I would say, get in touch with your emotions. Like when we're angry, for example, we feel it and we tense. And so to first get in touch with your emotions, in other words, notice, notice. notice and then move up to your head and Notice because those emotions let you know Remind you what you're thinking and believing is the cause of your suffering and So then you can identify the thoughts you're thinking and Then don't trust them to stay

Move them from your head to paper. And then sit with those four questions with like he doesn't care about me that belongs on paper. And then you question using these four questions and turn arounds. And the turn arounds are just finding opposites. So it's all always free. Anything I have a value, if I have something to value, it's always free on

birencady.com and or the word.com and and how to do this is there because if someone told me, you know, when you feel your emotions just get in touch with them. And what do you think in believing I would say give me a cigarette in the days we used to smoke? Yeah, and I love that about getting it down into paper. I think it's so important to get out of our heads. And you know, when things are in your mind, you think that they're there, that they can get convoluted and polluted. And so I often say to people as well, which I love is getting out of paper is almost sometimes voice noting and recording your own voice and hearing it. It puts you in such an observer mindset.

When you hear yourself and you're like, when you can hear yourself, you can hear what you're really trying to say. And what you're really trying to communicate and what you're really trying to communicate. And it's almost like hearing in between the lines for yourself, same with writing it down when you can read out to yourself. I think there's such powerful tools. I love it when I've heard you say that to judge people is to keep them separate from me.

And I like that so much, especially right now because I feel that judgment is what creates so much divide and sometimes even even what I find is more subtle is judgment of judgment. So it's we think that we are being right by judging, but actually we're simply judging someone for their judgment, if you know what I mean. It keeps us separate. It is the fence I put between you and me. And I feel that separation. So I'm just going to come at you, whether you like it or not, until you understand me,

but it's my fence I have put up between us. But it's my fence I have put up between us. The cause of all suffering is what we're thinking and believing. So what you and I are talking about right now is the cause of suffering. It's what we're thinking and believing. That is attachment. You know, the Buddha talks about attachments. Religions talk about attachment and and God's something there's something else, but we'll say attachment and and what we're talking about is the most important thing to identify what we're thinking and believing is to identify the cause of suffering and to question it is to set ourselves free and to question it really in the meditative process.

For example, if I think there's this is a terrible place, this world is a terrible place. My mind will show me all the images of the past, the proven, and the future that says it's going to happen again. It proves it. What we're thinking of believing is proven within us, but it's as we say nowadays fake news, it's fake news. And because it's not real, it's imaging, it's dreaming, it's the dream world. So to ask is it true begins to wake us up to reality. And the valid answer, when we ask is it true, to meditate, to get still in that, and not to ask the question of ourselves

if we don't really want what we're asking to meet the question of ourselves if we don't really want what we're asking to meet the question and what we're asking to meet the question is that don't know world that is so unavailable to us when we are living as believers in these terrifying, depressive states of mind. Hey, it's Debbie Brown, and my podcast deeply well is a soft place to land on your wellness journey.

I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness and mental health around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your journey. From guided meditations to deep conversations with some of the world's most gifted experts in self-care, trauma, psychology, spirituality, astrology, and even intimacy.

Here is where you'll pick up the tools to live as your highest self. Make better choices. Heal and have more joy. My work is rooted in advanced meditation, metaphysics, spiritual psychology, energy healing, and trauma-informed practices. I believe that the more we heal and grow within ourselves,

the more we are able to bring our creativity to life and live our purpose, which leads to community impact and higher consciousness for all beings. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well is available now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Big love. Namaste. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet, we're constantly discovering new secrets. The depths of them, the variety of them continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you,

stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. When I realized this is not just happening to me, this is who and what I am. I needed her to help me. Something was gnawing at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt somehow that there was a piece missing. Why not restart? Look at all the things that were going wrong. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you'll get your podcasts. In the 1680s, a feisty opera singer burned down an unnery and stole away with her secret lover.

In 1810, a pirate queen negotiated her cruiseway to total freedom with all their loot. During World War II, a flirtatious gambling double agent helped keep D-Day a secret from the Germans. What do these stories have in common? They're all about real women who were left out of your history books. If you're tired of missing out, check out the Womanica podcast, a daily women's history podcast highlighting women you may not have heard of, but definitely should know about. I'm your host, Jenny Kaplan, and for me, diving into these stories is the best part of my day. I learned something new about women from around the world and leafyling amazed, inspired,

and sometimes shocked. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What are some beliefs that we should have then because if we're believing so many of the wrong thoughts, what are some of the thoughts that we should believe? Well, words become like matches for our true nature and or a match to the heart. Like if I think there's something wrong with him or her or them, you know, a society, for example, but there's something wrong with him, then my mind immediately shows me the future where he's going to do that to me too, you know, that's going to happen here too. And so I don't see that him I'm with. I see who I imagine him to be. So that's who I'm talking to. So I'd like to say no to people I've ever met. We're crazy. We are talking to a phantom and we're so convinced. And so this work wakes me up to reality. And I forgot your question actually slipped.

You know, my note that was beautiful. My question was, because you're saying that we sometimes believe on negative thoughts, and that's what creates our suffering. Oh, the replacement. So are there any thoughts that we should have? Are there any beliefs we should have? Well, let's say, I think there's something wrong with him.

And is it true? Can I really know this? How do I react when I believe the thought? I see that past future energy and all of that, who would I be without it? And I'm just meditating, dropping my story, dropping that identification on him, taking all the post that I believed onto him. And I just see him. And I see him.

And without what I'm believing onto him. And then when I turn it around, there's something wrong with him, turned around, there's something wrong with me. And I'm not exchanging one belief for another. I am going to try it on as though it were a shoe I tried on and I fell in love with an issue store. I don't know if it fits. I've got to try it on. So there's something wrong with him, turn on, there's something wrong with me. I'm going to try it on. So there's something wrong with him. Turn on there's something wrong with me. I'm going to try it on now. In that situation with him, there's something wrong with me.

Okay, my attitude. I was experienced a little fear, a lot of separation. There's something wrong with me. I see him differently when I dropped my story on him. That was mine. There's something wrong with me. So I am meditating in a moment in time and I'm present.

And if I see something, if I see something unacceptable in my world, I look to me. I don't look to other people. They cannot give me the answers that I'm seeking. And often they say things that enlighten me, that wake me up, that change my life. But I'm the one that heard them. And as I'm in a hurry, I was in a hurry. And I was, I was granted a gift and it came freely. And now that belongs to everyone. And no one has to be open to it either, but I just know my job like you know yours.

We know our jobs. We give the gift and and we it grows in us each time we do. And what about so many people I hear today who are reconnecting with some of the pains in their childhood that they may not have even been aware of. So when we look at childhood trauma, we look at abandonment issues, we look at the feeling of not feeling nurtured, like we look at the feeling of being rejected or neglected as a child and we carry this.

And it's very good. And it's there. And sometimes we don't become aware of it until we're much older. So true. How does someone go about processing that? Because I feel that that also reflects in the type of partners we choose for ourselves.

It affects. It affects our communication with our friends and our bosses and our colleagues. It creates so many issues. It affects everything. It affects our identification. The people I work with so that they understand how to work with it themselves, is I asked them to go into the trauma, get into the center

of that trauma where it was the most painful, and identify meditating in that situation, and that's asking a lot. But to go back into that situation and that's asking a lot But to go back into that situation and identify what they were thinking and believing then Because what they were thinking and be leaving then was the cause of the trauma no matter what that person did to me What I was thinking and believing was the cause of my trauma. So I identify those thoughts, I write them down and I have a judge and neighbor worksheet on my website,

people can download or work it there. And it's a form with six questions that include and allow us to recall what we were thinking and believing then. So that supports it. And then there are their thoughts what they were thinking and believing then the cause of the trauma. And then they question those thoughts. And they question it from a meditative state, from that situation, from the center of that terrible situation. Doesn't mean the other person isn't guilty, but it's still what still remains is what I was thinking and believing is the cause of my suffering. So I question those thoughts and the trauma breaks and I am enlightened to the cause of my suffering.

And that's what I was thinking and believing. And then I have a lot to do. I have a lot to do after that. It's another worksheet and another worksheet. And you know, my mother, for example, said one day that's hypothetically say she said, Bywin Kathleen and I'm just a little kid. I'm just Google Gaga. I'm just you know that that and and it doesn't mean anything to me and

she says Byron Kathleen and it means nothing to me and then let's say three weeks go by that that that that that that that and she says Byron Kathleen and then one of my siblings say Byron Kathleen and and it and my mother says it my father says it and then one day my mother says it and I believe I believe and prior to with I'm a female I'm this age I have this color here I have this color skin I have this and now you have this and you are that and you are that so I'm multiplying like being in a mirror and the whole world is reflecting what I believe back to me. So to go back to the beginning and and and and question, you know, my name is Byron Kathleen, you know, and that's so close to the ego. I don't invite people to go there. But if you're, let's say you're raising children, oh, I just, I just, this work is free. All it will cost you

is your identity. And you're leaving when a kinder one. That is so powerful. What you were just saying there about constantly taking back to when, what was your belief at that time, what were your thoughts and your belief at that time? Because there are so many times when we believe and we have created a thought that we trust this person yet we never knew if they were trustworthy. We never allowed them to earn our trust. We just gave it to them. And then we wonder why they broke it. And it's because at that time we chose to give them our trust. We just want to know when we consider what we were thinking and believing, you know, we looked to ourselves.

They didn't, they didn't con me into trusting them. I believed this, this and this. And I trusted that. Now you say in that regard, you also say that there's nothing that isn't a gift. It's a friendly universe, you say? Yes, oh my gosh, yes. It is a friendly universe. I get goosebumps just hearing it from you. It is a friendly universe.

And what I'm thinking and believing about this universe could use a little work if I don't love it. As it is. And we question what we're thinking and believing about life and it leaves us in a friendly universe. It's a most, it's a radical thing to wake up to reality, no downside. It's hard to accept because of our desire to control, and our desire for our ego for things to be the way we want them to be.

Our desire to be God. And our desire to be God is an honest thing. It's just flipped into the ego's possession. So it's, so we question what we're believing and we become very humble. And then eventually we see that we, oh boy, this is this is while but still it's like I I believed this universe into being and if I don't love it I need to question my universe and that means question what I believe about you about me me, about them, about it, about God, about everything, and wake up to reality. And without any preconceived idea about what it is, and in my experience, it's nameless anyway. Nameless would take away from the beauty. It is that beautiful. And to even claim it is, says what it isn't, it's more than that.

It's disrespectful for me to even attempt. It's more beautiful than that. And I love, I know that my community will be really interested in this case is how does this then affect our relationships and our communication with those that we love? How is there closer, closer, closer, closer? No space, no, no distance, no, no separation, just living out of our true nature and trusting that is a fear of the state of mind, which means that there's nothing we cannot accomplish. You know, we wanted to accomplish something. If we don't, we consider, and we consider what we were thinking and believing that stops us

then inquiry leaves us in this fearless state of mind and it's and it's really good to be clear what you're going after you know what it is you really want. And so for me, that's, that's a part of the journey. I want people to be free. And, and, and why am I, why am I doing what I do? Because I have seen they're already free. That leaves me jobless. They're already free. And then I discovered that, leaves made jobless. They're already free. And then I discovered that that that what we're thinking and believing what people are thinking and believing is the only prison they've got. So I see like on television, hungry children, people suffering. And I have been in some of those positions. And I have sat in the in the center of those experience and identified what I was thinking and believing and other than that I was okay. So I understand that the world is again, it's a friendly universe, Jay, and I'm very open to it, not being, so I continue to test it. And your test seems to be proving your hypothesis correct?

I see a lot of good. I would say I see only good, and anything less than that I question. Yeah. I love what you say about the three businesses. Can you share about the three businesses? Yeah, if I look at it and like my daughter let's say one of my the way she's raising her children, for example, or one of my sons, there are three kinds of business and all of the universe is mine yours and gods and that's the God of your understanding. And if I'm mentally in my daughter's business, I'm sitting here with you, but mentally, I'm in her house, knowing how she should raise her children, knowing

what she should do, all of all of this, I'm talking to you, but I'm over there, my daughter's business. So if I'm feeling disconnected from you, I can just ask myself mentally, who's business, am I in and notice, and emotions will let me know for sure, and then just come right back to right here right now. And this is where I can make change. I can't make change over there. I'm, you know, I can't be in all these places at once, but we are, we're all over the world. His business, her business, their business, God's business,

the weather's business. That's a great point. That's so true. We really are in our own business. Oh, so, I think you take us to our house,'s business, our social media takes us to other people's business. We're always talking about other people's business and how do you get your business down if you're always someone else's business?

And when we're present, when we're present, we can observe life from out of a, it sounds strange, but out of a proactive state of mind and understanding, I think, is the better word. And stay present and watch these things on televisions and walk in Black Lives Matter events. And we can do the most marvelous things and still be present. But fear stops us from, I don't have the right clothes. And I wonder if I need to take a lunch. Well, this is just, you know, I don't think I'll bother today. What would stop us from doing the right thing?

Our hearts desire. And literally our hearts desire until they're out of that fear. Yeah. What, Keri, what is the secret to your long and credible relationship with Steve? Oh, how did you both find each other? How did you both know that you were right for each other and how did you? He's he's better at telling this story, but, but on, on my, on, on a friend of mine said that I just needed to meet him and, and that he's the one person in the world that could write on my book, loving what he has. And oh gosh, how do I tell the story?

He's so good at it. You know, the bottom line, oh, this sounds this sounds so. He asked me to marry him and I didn't know why not. And that's the truth of it. And I asked my three-grown children, do you have a reason why I shouldn't marry Stephen? And they didn't have one and I didn't have one. And what I knew of Stephen is he is good and kind and wise.

And there just was no reason the world not. as he is good and kind and wise. And there just was no reason the world not. But when you have a perfect life, when you're never lonely, let's say, I'm always alone and never lonely as far as people go, I don't need anyone. And I married him and he, I mean, just he is just so completely lovable and near and kind and and I'm just, I don't know how the how this story sounds but who wouldn't love that?

Absolutely. You know, it's goodness and kindness and fairness and brilliance and oh, you know, all the things I, and in my life before the work, the opposite would attract me looks and the real man and the, you know, all the, the usual, usual. And I didn't do well in those areas. That's such a powerful point. I'm so glad you raised that because what we're attracted to is also what we're thinking and believing. And so sometimes when we say, well, this is my type or this is the kind of guy or girl or whoever it is that I'm attracted to, what we're saying is we think and believe that this

will make us happy. Yes. The appearance, their job, their status, their whatever, maybe will make us happy. And we don't question that. We wonder why the person let us down, but using your methodology, the work, as soon as we go back to what we're thinking and believing at that time, we start to write that what we thought

and believed would make us happy is what let us down. Not a person. But we were thinking and believing about that human being on was the cause of our attraction. But once we question what we were thinking and believing about the human being, it loses its validity really and leaves us in an open state of mind where we're more able to see

and hear rather than think over. Yes, yes, so well said. And that's, it's really registering. And for everyone who's listening or watching right now, when you're listening to this, I really hope that the repetition, every time Katie keeps talking about thinking and believing, what are your thoughts

and what are your beliefs? If you genuinely revisit those pivotal, crucial, transitional moments of your life, you recognize that all of that pain and suffering that you are experiencing or holding onto comes from a thought and a belief that you're still holding onto. Sometimes we're holding on for decades

to a thought and belief that this person can still make me happy. And that's why we want them to be back into our lives. We are holding on to belief that only that job still make me happy. And that's why we want them to be back into our lives. We are holding on to belief that only that job can make me happier, only that thing can make me happy. That is a thought and belief, and in that thought and belief is encapsulated all of our suffering. It's almost taking a suffering pill. And then when we get that job,

we can appreciate it because we're taking the same thinking into that job. So really not a lot changes, maybe the money, but that's never enough either. Yeah, it's so profound for me. It's really hearing you repeat it today. And I've had it before from you, but hearing you repeat it today, and I'm really hoping everyone's listening, feeling the same way. Every time you say it's just going to step deeper and deeper and deeper and into my head, to my heart. And it did work. It takes stillness. It's a meditative practice. You know, sitting in, is it true? And then having the courage to sit in, how do I react? How do I treat that person? How do I treat myself when I believe the thought? And then I get still and I witness witness and I'm not guessing at how I react

and how I treat that person and how I treat myself. I'm witnessing real deal and who would I be without it. And then I get to see the same situation again minus, as I said earlier, the post it I was putting on the event and I get to witness the real world. I'm sitting in the old world new. It's so and then I have a lot of amends to make, you know, I need to go back to that person admit my wrong and apologize, make it right and start over. It's um, it's um, living, it's enlightenment has no power until it's lived. Yeah. So to live it out, it goes into identity, the cells of this apparent body. And it wouldn't overlook anything. Love is a power that leads nothing out.

So true, so true. Katie, I'd like to share these final two segments with you. This segment of the interview is called Fill in the Blanks. So I read a statement, and I ask you to fill in the blanks for us, and we walk through them. So let's do that. So my first one for you is thoughts and judgments are and you can fill in the blanks. Thoughts means love. Most people believe in goodness. The work has allowed me to be free. Change is hardest when. My mind's not open to the world. Yes, I have no tolerance for. To be continued.

Life will show me what I have no tolerance for. I think of pain but even physical pain is either remembered or anticipated. Yeah. That's a beautiful answer, I like it. And now I wanna ask you what is our final five. So this is the final five, what you answered. And that was beautiful by the way, Katie. You answer every answer with one word, to one sentence maximum. So these are five powerful questions.

So this is your final five, Katie. This is your first one. What did you once pursue pursue but no longer value? Power. Beautiful. Second question. What do you know to be absolutely true? Nothing. Wow. Okay. Third question. What do you feel is so right, but other people disagree with you? What is something that you know to be true, but other people would disagree or debate? That's your beautiful.

And then that. Okay, question number four, if you could create a law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would that law be? Honesty, authenticity. And your fifth and final question, what was the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months? It's nothing out of order. Oh wow. Wow. Marrakechi, thank you so much. It it's been such a joy to be present with you for this time. Your work in the work and the four questions is just so universal and timeless that I feel

that it can help so many of us out of whatever we're struggling with and gives us a real pattern and process to keep reapplying in our life. I really hope that everyone who's listening and watching today will make the most of going to ByronKetty.com or thework.com, we'll dive into the books, the books that I mentioned loving what is, which outlines the four questions,

so that you can truly, truly start asking those questions in your life on a daily basis, putting them on to paper, and then using them throughout your life. Katie, is there a question that you feel is in your heart that I haven't asked you that you would like to answer or share with us today that you haven't shared? What would stop you? Stop me from. What would stop you? Stop me from. What would stop me from? What would stop you? From what?

From living out of your purpose, off of your purpose, out of your purpose, I don't see that you're immovable in it. And then just, what would stop you? What would stop me? Is if I stopped praying and doing the work? Oh, stopped praying. If I stopped praying and doing the work, then that I would be stopped because I'm only immobile because of my intention and my prayers and

divine grace. So if I if I didn't have access to divine grace anymore then I would be moved immediately because you know what power do I have without that? I don't see that happening. Thank you Jay. Thank you my heart. No thank you. Please give me your prayers and your blessings. They would be very deeply appreciated and I would welcome them with my full heart because and I can just see there is so much love in your eyes and your heart that I feel so I feel so fueled and nourished deeply by by the energy you're sending my way. I can't I can't thank you enough. I feel overwhelmed by. Thank you. Thank you, Jay. And you have that you have that always because like you saying.

This purpose we've been giving you know, I love that everyone has it and what we're thinking and believing over rides that. And I love that sameness. And thank you for our time together. So precious, Jane. Thank you. I hope I get to meet you. I'm just waiting till it saves. I can actually be in the same room

as you and get some quality time with you. This was beautiful. It's going to help so many. I helped so many. So thank you so much. Thank you, Jay, to be continued. Yes, absolutely. I'm so grateful.

Thank you, Katie. Everyone who's been listening or watching, please go to ByronKaty.com to find out everything to get the worksheets, to get access to everything that Katie has shared today. Please do not miss this incredible opportunity that stands for all of us to start making this progress right now. No excuses. It's all free. It's all there. You can go and check

out at ByronKady.com and I highly highly recommend it. And please also share this episode. Share what you learned. What did Katie say that really stood out to you? What was the piece of wisdom that you're going to look at? Share it because when you share it, someone else is going to find it. And then you're going to have that universal connection with them as well. So please, please pass it along, pass on the words of Katie that really stood with you today, really resonated with your heart. And Katie, I'll hopefully see you soon and meet you soon. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Cherry. I'm Munga Shatekler and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find it in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-Pop Groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nuneum. I'm a journalist, a wanderer, a bit of a bond vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it. I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner where We're kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party.

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